Laconia and pot

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

Does anyone have more information on this?

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/index...-pot-ordinance

Am I reading it correctly. The city of Laconia is trying to bring Marijuana facilities to the city?

Why on earth would the people of Laconia want this. There is no way the little bit of tax revenue is worth it. Laconia has a serious drug problem, let's make it worse is the city's solution.
I know some people would say what is the big deal, but it is perception. An image Laconia needs to change and this will not help.

Let us know what you find out when you attend the public hearing on a proposed ordinance to regulate the location of a medical marijuana dispensary on Wednesday, Feb. 11 at City Hall beginning at 6:30 p.m.

I assume you are going to let them know why they don't need this facility in Laconia.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Let us know what you find out when you attend the public hearing on a proposed ordinance to regulate the location of a medical marijuana dispensary on Wednesday, Feb. 11 at City Hall beginning at 6:30 p.m.

I assume you are going to let them know why they don't need this facility in Laconia.

Thanks for the date Rusty...maybe I'll bake some brownies for those attending. Should be a great time!!!

[MeredithMan]

.....here's what I do know:

1) a medical marijuana office--that is legal, sanctioned, and regulated by law--has absolutely no correlation with, or anything to do with, a town's heroin problem.

2) Laconia's heroin / hard drug problem--like many other areas in the nation-- is due to numerous socio-economic factors that could fill a Phd dissertation and it is an issue way too complex for a forum like this.

3) My limited knowledge of medical marijuana is that it helps those in severe pain from serious disease like cancer. Like many people probably on this forum, I have seen first-hand the ravages of the cancer disease and the chemo and radiation to fight it. If medical weed brings relief to those who suffer, I am all for it.

4) I do not believe that a medical marijuana office will tarnish the area's reputation and scare people away. On the contrary, I believe it will show that the area is compassionate for those who suffer and will demonstrate that it is on the forefront of modern thought.

MM

[BroadHopper]

Laconia has a heroin problem and the city shot down the meth clinic proposal. So it did not go well. Now the medical marijuana proposal.

Many folks I talk to associate marijuana use with heroin, and if you google it is rarely the case. Lots of knee jerkers out there!

I spent the month of January in Colorado, and despite what the knee jerkers say, Colorado did not turn into a state of pot smokers. The ULLR fest had some pot smokers and they kept to themselves, but the majority of the problems were from alcohol consumption. No news here.

There are tooo many NIMBYS in this state. They don't want wind farms, power lines, or gas lines in their back yards yet support them elsewhere. Consequently they don't want a medical marijuana or methadone clinic in their backyard yet support them elsewhere. Where will it end?

[dave603]

It is going be legal some day.
Just legalize it, treat like hard liquor sales.
Tax it, and sell it out of the state liquor stores.
At least then there is quality control and tax revenue.
The state gets the benefit and there's no worries about licencing.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

Thanks for the date Rusty...maybe I'll bake some brownies for those attending. Should be a great time!!!

Sounds good...I'll mix up a batch of Happy Shake to wash down the Brownies. Keep smiling!

[Woodsy]

Some people like Pot, Some people don't.... It is what it is. As long as the Police have a way to test someone operating a motor vehicle while high on Pot, I don't really care....

That being said, the Mayor, City Council & Zoning Board all need to be proactive when it comes to anything vice related... Bars/Strip Clubs/Medical dispensaries for whatever drug etc... they all can have a very adverse effect on property values depending on location.

Strip Clubs are a prime example.... You cannot constitutionally ban them, but you can decide where they can operate through zoning laws.


Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Some people like Pot, Some people don't.... It is what it is. As long as the Police have a way to test someone operating a motor vehicle while high on Pot, I don't really care....That being said, the Mayor, City Council & Zoning Board all need to be proactive when it comes to anything vice related... Bars/Strip Clubs/Medical dispensaries for whatever drug etc... they all can have a very adverse effect on property values depending on location. Strip Clubs are a prime example.... You cannot constitutionally ban them, but you can decide where they can operate through zoning laws.

Woodsy

Probably everyone knows at least a couple of recreational marijuana users.

1) Of the four that I know, two—who are very intelligent otherwise—quit voluntarily long ago. (Although one had lost much of his lymph glands, and parts of his jaw to cancer). One other quit entirely after going on oxygen for breathing insufficiencies. (I was called to drive him to Huggins ER—twice).

The last one died last year. He was a very helpful mechanic, but died mostly from dependence on alcohol, tobacco, and various drugs. I found out by asking a mutual friend, "Is Jerry still alive?" I never knew his exact age, but I'd guess Jerry was about 30 when he died.

2) Britain has a long history of serious study and long reports. Their report on the toxic effects of smoking marijuana appears at the link.

4.17 Most of our witnesses regard the consequences of smoking cannabis as the most important long-term risk associated with cannabis use[11]. Cannabis smoke contains all of the toxic chemicals present in tobacco smoke (apart from nicotine), with greater concentrations of carcinogenic benzanthracenes and benzpyrenes It has been estimated that smoking a cannabis cigarette (containing only herbal cannabis) results in approximately a five*fold greater increase in carboxy*haemoglobin concentration[12], a three*fold greater increase in the amount of tar inhaled, and a retention in the respiratory tract of one third more tar, than smoking a tobacco cigarette. Cannabis resin, the most commonly used form of cannabis in the United Kingdom, is often smoked mixed with tobacco, thus adding the well-documented risks of exposure to tobacco smoke, while complicating the picture for the researcher.

4.18 Regular cannabis smokers suffer from an increased incidence of respiratory disorders, including cough, bronchitis and asthma. Microscopic examination of the cells lining the airways of cannabis smokers has revealed the presence of an inflammatory response and some evidence for what may be pre-cancerous changes. There is as yet no epidemiological evidence for an increased risk of lung cancer but, by analogy with tobacco smoking, such a link may take 25-30 years or more before it becomes evident, and the widespread use of smoked cannabis in Western societies dates only from the 1970s. There are some reports of an increased incidence of cancers of the mouth and throat in young cannabis users[13], but so far these involve only small numbers and no cause and effect relationship has been established. Nevertheless, Professor Hall considers it a "pretty reasonable bet" that heavy users incur a risk of cancer (Q 741); and the risk is considered by some of our witnesses to be sufficiently serious to rule out any approval of long-term medical use of smoked cannabis, and to justify the present prohibition on recreational use.

4.19 Tolerance is the phenomenon whereby a regular user of a drug requires more each time to achieve the same effect. It is not an adverse effect in itself; but it may make medical use more difficult, and recreational use more damaging as the user's demand for the drug increases.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannab...cEffects.shtml

As for Laconia: would the directors risk hiring a local employee who has shown a weakness towards consuming any illegal drugs?

[Rusty]

Wow APS...Talk about scare tactics and posting a report that is 16 years old.
That report was published in 1998 and I'm sure things have changes just a little bit.
And your friends who died is tragic to say the least, but to somehow correlate that to cannabis is even more tragic.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Wow APS...Talk about scare tactics and posting a report that is 16 years old. That report was published in 1998 and I'm sure things have changes just a little bit.

"Scare tactics" showed inconsistent results with users of tobacco, which has taken decades to demonstrate its many dangers—and to discourage its use. Marijuana is likewise discouraged in pregnancies, and for young and developing brain cells.

"Changes" like in Colorado?

The FDA has not approved the medicinal use of marijuana because there is not enough evidence showing that the benefits of its use outweigh the risks.
Also, medicine requires consistent doses, while each marijuana plant can have very different levels of THC and other compounds.
http://www.lung.org/associations/sta...marijuana.html

My collegiate friend with a newly-created jaw—and plastic teeth (!)—would not have been readily able to read that UK study; however, in his younger days, he would likely have dismissed it anyway. It's easy to dismiss a valid study when your "pleasure-centers" are served better in denial.

My other friend got off oxygen, and is now a pleasure to be around. For a score of years, he seldom ventured into New Hampshire's outdoors—content in his "bubble" of smoke—white as a ghost!

Originally Posted by Rusty

And your friend who died is tragic to say the least, but to somehow correlate that to cannabis is even more tragic.

I didn't know Jerry when he had his drivers license taken away. Jerry knew not to smoke marijuana in my presence, but forever needing to get "high", he'd cash his paycheck, mix up rum-and-cokes where rum was the major ingredient. 'Smoked cigarettes at work, and was cheerful to be around—always happy—explosive laughter—almost giddy! While his drug problem was still "safe" marijuana—he grew more dependent on the "high". I was away for a couple of years, and dreaded the news I fully expected to hear.

Just remembered: Our SCCA club had a "Safety Steward" who smoked marijuana on an active auto race track—while manning a safety station! A friend of mine, I couldn't understand why he was dismissed from his duties for the weekend. (I now know better).

I'd known other "users", but they've moved on...

[PENIVISA]

I agree It's here to stay. I also believe it will make someone more comfortable in time of sickness.
I also believe its a gateway drug to hard drugs. The devastation that addiction or addicts leave is a horrah that no one should have to live through but thats here too.So sure pots an awesome Medicene until it turns its ugly head and turns into a nightmare to familys and friends.
Booze is a great thing to have to relax after a hard days work.
Now when someone you love is killed by a drunk driver maybe you take a different look at the problem.

[wynndog]

Well I sold booze for 4 years. I knew of 4 people that died form it.We all have seen how many dwi's on TV with terrible endings.
I knew 198 people that smoked pot for yearrrrrrrrrs. Only knew one that died;
laughing!

Stats ....ahh
obama care will give 30 million w/o it health care; wait, 30 million still with out
pot really has arsenic like cigs? It is nature made!No label like cigs.
You didn't create THAT, the government did.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!

[dave603]

This turning into something.
I smoke cigs, knowing how stupid it is.
I drink, knowing how stupid that is. (not while driving OR boating)
Both effect my health, but yet I still do it.
Have smoked pot many, many years ago, just didn't do anything for me.
Guess I'm human, huh?

People are going to keep using POT, just as they drank during prohibition.
I'd just rather see it being having some control, instead of what we have now.

During prohibition many people drank stuff made by people who added bad things to it to get a better buzz, and blinded and killed people doing it.
Same has happened with pot.
Better to have the State not only make some taxes controlling it, but also adding some safety to it.

[MAXUM]

What makes me scratch my head, leaving aside the social implications of legalization (which appear to be completely ignored) is simply this. With all the moaning about 2nd hand smoke, the evil big tobacco companies that are being harassed for killing people and all these new trendy "no tobacco" zones, why is there such a big push to legalize pot? I find it so ironic or maybe better put hypocritical of those who loathe cigarette smokers but embrace pot as if it's a perfectly fine and healthy thing to do. I suppose as long as it's all natural "free range" pot well heck it's all good. Doesn't this make anyone scratch their head and wonder exactly what is behind all this?

The bottom line to this as far as I'm concerned is that pot is a controlled substance and in many cases has been suggested is a gateway drug to the more hardcore stuff. While yes some argue that it can be used for medicinal purposes, and I suppose that may very well be true, so are some opiates yet those are legal by prescription only. I fear that we as a society are normalizing more and more activity and substances in an effort to somehow gloss over the negative effects, in other words as long as everyone believes the hype it must be true. However to maintain an orderly and productive society how can we possibly expect this to occur when these types of things are allowed to occur and in many cases, such as in Colorado when it made pot legal, romanticized. That is a great example for the youth in this country today now isn't it?

I just happen to be of the mind set there are enough things that are legal which one can indulge in and get into plenty of trouble without adding more options. Plus I don't care so much about what all these studies may say, there is no one who can predict the long term affects of what legalization will do. However there are plenty of other things alcohol being one of them that can give us all a glimpse as to the possibilities. That in and of itself should give us all pause. I know may not be a hip or politically correct thing to say, hell may even be considered "old fashioned" but it's my opinion and I guess that I am entitled to!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

While yes some argue that it can be used for medicinal purposes, and I suppose that may very well be true, so are some opiates yet those are legal by prescription only.

Which will be the case with pot. Prescription. My 85 yo mom is dying of cancer. She asked us kids to get her some to ease the pain. She was given brownies. Taken orally takes away the nonsense arguments made by some here about the bad effects of inhaling. It does not need to be smoked. I'd much rather have her using THC for comfort than those awful opiates. When pain gets to a level where opiates are needed, thats different. I bet 99% of opponents have never used and thats fine but that limits your knowledge and perception. Open your minds and preconceived attitudes.
This is not directed at you in particular Maxum but was an opportunity to insert my opinion.

[LadyJane]

I personally do not use marijuana but I know many people who have used it to help with various health problems. The bottom line is that it does help those people in coping with pain, the nausea from chemotherapy and many other diseases without the unpleasant and damaging side affects of many other prescription meds. My son had cancer ( leukemia ) for 15 months. After he died I found a pot pipe in the pocket of his fishing vest. I'm sure he hid that from me because at the time I was a high school teacher and his step father was a police officer. But I think if I had known it then, I would have sat on the porch with him and had a toke or so.

[BroadHopper]

I very good friend of mind died about a decade ago. He was in the recognizance unit of the Special Forces during the Vietnam conflict. He made a number of trips across the demilitarized zone and he was suffering from Agent Orange.
For decades VHA refused to recognized ailments from Agent Orange. He suffered from a number of skin and lung ailments over the years after the war. Eventually he had cancer in his internal organs. He hated the morphine pump given to him. Rather he enjoyed the THC benefit greatly and he and his wife was arrested a number of times for having pot.
The small PA. community he was living in recognized his illness and developed a bad taste for the local police and VHA. The community continue to help him out despite the laws. He was the kind of guy everyone love. The police knew this and were very upset with the community in supporting this habit. They eventually gave up watching his house. They have better things to do than pick on a decorated veteran.
Today, he would have better care as THC is legalized for medicinal purpose and VHA recognized Agent Orange as a carcinogen.

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Today, he would have better care as THC is legalized for medicinal purpose.

THC for medicinal purposes has been legal since 1985, as the aromatic isoprenoid in sesame oil, marketed as Marinol.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by gokart-mozart

THC for medicinal purposes has been legal since 1985, as the aromatic isoprenoid in sesame oil, marketed as Marinol.

That's true.
Marinol and traditional marijuana are not the same. Besides their differences pharmacologically, Marinol is an oral medication. Taking Marinol orally takes ~90 minutes, at best, to work. Inhaling vaporized marijuana takes effect in about 15 seconds. Someone suffering from nausea would not want to wait 90 minutes for relief. Both should be available with a doctors approval.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by LadyJane

I personally do not use marijuana but I know many people who have used it to help with various health problems. The bottom line is that it does help those people in coping with pain, the nausea from chemotherapy and many other diseases without the unpleasant and damaging side affects of many other prescription meds. My son had cancer ( leukemia ) for 15 months. After he died I found a pot pipe in the pocket of his fishing vest. I'm sure he hid that from me because at the time I was a high school teacher and his step father was a police officer. But I think if I had known it then, I would have sat on the porch with him and had a toke or so.

I had tears welling and was laughing at the same time LJ. So sorry for the loss of your son. If you had gotten stoned with him, I am sure it would be a fond memory!

[Cindido]

Lady Jane - So sorry for the loss of your son and thanks for sharing that memory

[LadyJane]

Thank you Cindido.....he really LOVED New Hampshire, just one of the many reasons that I do too. I have a pic of him at the top of Abenaki Tower that hangs on the wall behind my computer.

[BroadHopper]

If the good lord invent marijuana and allow us to use it, I'm sure your son is enjoying in heaven! Sorry for the loss.

What I find funny was a bunch of us back in the early 70's was smoking pot at the cabin. Later my dad said I smell pot! How did he know what pot smelled like? I guess there are things never told and left alone.

[Mr. V]

I know a fellow who does not smoke pot, yet he uses a marijuana infused cream he gets from a MM dispensary to ease his arthritis pain.

By report he finds that it is quite effective and works better than commercially available creams / salves.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Which will be the case with pot. Prescription. My 85 yo mom is dying of cancer. She asked us kids to get her some to ease the pain. She was given brownies. Taken orally takes away the nonsense arguments made by some here about the bad effects of inhaling. It does not need to be smoked. I'd much rather have her using THC for comfort than those awful opiates. When pain gets to a level where opiates are needed, thats different. I bet 99% of opponents have never used and thats fine but that limits your knowledge and perception. Open your minds and preconceived attitudes.
This is not directed at you in particular Maxum but was an opportunity to insert my opinion.

and meet up with Rusty and PBFF!! They have the good stuff!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Which will be the case with pot. Prescription. My 85 yo mom is dying of cancer. She asked us kids to get her some to ease the pain. She was given brownies. Taken orally takes away the nonsense arguments made by some here about the bad effects of inhaling. It does not need to be smoked. I'd much rather have her using THC for comfort than those awful opiates. When pain gets to a level where opiates are needed, thats different. I bet 99% of opponents have never used and thats fine but that limits your knowledge and perception. Open your minds and preconceived attitudes.
This is not directed at you in particular Maxum but was an opportunity to insert my opinion.

Understood on your comment...keep in mind that my pot objection is to "recreational" use and legalization for that purpose, not if it is used under the direction of a medical doctor.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

keep in mind that my pot objection is to "recreational" use and legalization for that purpose, not if it is used under the direction of a medical doctor.

Curious. Are you similarly opposed to alcohol and tobacco? What is your opposition to other people's recreational use?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Curious. Are you similarly opposed to alcohol and tobacco? What is your opposition to other people's recreational use?

I don't care about tobacco, it's not a mind altering and motor skills inhibiting substance. While it may not be good for the consumer, it's potential damage to innocent bystanders is relatively minimal.

For pot use I can't believe this is necessary to be explained - so I will ask a rhetorical question. What possible GOOD can come to us for making pot legal? Furthermore I will ask another question because it's sure to happen at a later date and time. IF this were made legal everywhere then where do we cross the line in making other drugs legal for "recreational" use? Why not just legalize everything? Who's to say that crack, heroin or any other illicit drugs should be any less legal than pot or alcohol? Then again it seems to be the latest trend these days to normalize self destructive behavior by making it permissible under the letter of the law and with the wave of a wand the negative effects magically disappear? I'll ask another question, in areas where pot, alcohol or any other drugs are being used and abused what becomes of those people? Most end up a bunch of losers incapable of being productive members of society never mind the crime and violence it brings with it. Why in the world would we ever want to encourage any of this?

[Mr. V]

I'll ask another question, in areas where pot, alcohol or any other drugs are being used and abused what becomes of those people? Most end up a bunch of losers incapable of being productive members of society never mind the crime and violence it brings with it. Why in the world would we ever want to encourage any of this?

What a ridiculous assertion!

"Most?"

Really?

I know many folks who have smoked pot for a long time, and they're normal, productive members of society.

They maintain their jobs, raise a family, pay taxes.

Alcohol does much more damage than marijuana, and it's legal: why this duality?

People are going to smoke pot regardless: the legalization movement is simply recognition that the current punishments as meted out are excessive, and do little to deter.

[inquiring one]

This response is written in hopes to inform and not to be interpreted as condescending in any way please. This is a prime example of how people have been conditioned into a state of fear by the use of propaganda, designed to lead the ill-informed into falsely educating the uninformed over generations. It would seem to me that if this area has a “drug” problem, the causal factors of such should be addressed. Are people trying to escape or fill a void and if so, why? Are people using street drugs because they need relief from a condition and haven’t insurance? Has the drug problem arisen from addictions spurred by over prescribed “legal “drugs? Who defines legal? Look into fluoride and what it actually is and what it has been used for since its inception. Then ask why it is added to the drinking water and as a fertilizer for “organic” produce.
This area has several government sanctioned major Drug Stores shelling out every conceivable chemical known at this time. Each comes with the promise of alleviating certain symptoms if you’d like to take the chance of also acquiring a host of side effects. Without spending a great deal of time, you can find that the “healthcare” system is a self –perpetuating money machine. The very few people which fund the hospitals also finance the pharmaceutical industry, education facilities, food production, insurance industry, petroleum and control the banking institutions. All are corporations meaning the focus is on the wallet, not people. Please don’t take my word for it, do your own inquiry.
Having a legal medical marijuana distribution center located in the area isn’t going to tip the scales much in either direction. Two (somewhat opposing) of the many articles written about the prohibition against Marijuana can be read at www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html and www.skeptoid.com/episodes/4401 . There once was a time that Hemp was used for many, many items, including a fuel source for an internal combustion engine. It is also one of the many known & suppressed cures for cancer. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQwwGPiyW9M )
Should the city wish to change its image, maybe stop placing the fluoride (poison) in the drinking water and step up the snow removal?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I don't care about tobacco, it's not a mind altering and motor skills inhibiting substance. While it may not be good for the consumer, it's potential damage to innocent bystanders is relatively minimal.

For pot use I can't believe this is necessary to be explained - so I will ask a rhetorical question. What possible GOOD can come to us for making pot legal?

For one, we can stop wasting money, and lives, fighting the "war on drugs" that has NEVER made any real progress in stopping the drug trade. Billions of dollars wasted, and DEA agents killed every year fighting against a non-threat (in the sense of marijuana).

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Furthermore I will ask another question because it's sure to happen at a later date and time. IF this were made legal everywhere then where do we cross the line in making other drugs legal for "recreational" use?

An interesting thought exercise, but I don't think there is groundswell support for legalizing other drugs right now. I don't think other drugs have shown the same general lack of negative affects, and potential positive affects, that marijuana has.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Why not just legalize everything? Who's to say that crack, heroin or any other illicit drugs should be any less legal than pot or alcohol?

If any of those were shown to have either measurable benefits, or lack of side-affects, then I'd be in favor of considering legalization for those, or other as-yet undiscovered drugs in the future. But it's pretty easy to demonstrate the addictiveness and negative affects of crack or heroin. So I don't think you have to worry that legalizing pot is going to suddenly cause crack to be available at your local CVS.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'll ask another question, in areas where pot, alcohol or any other drugs are being used and abused what becomes of those people? Most end up a bunch of losers incapable of being productive members of society never mind the crime and violence it brings with it. Why in the world would we ever want to encourage any of this?

There are many many substances that are abused by some individuals. I don't see that as a reason to limit general availability of something that has not been shown to have addictive or harmful qualities in that manner. Many people have no interest in being a part of a functioning society and will abuse leisure time substances for various reasons. You could remove all drugs and alcohol from the world and those people would not suddenly become productive members of society.

Along the same lines, what about all the people jailed and/or forced to incur large fines for being caught with very small amounts of pot? What about all the cases of police using petty drug arrests as a means to hassle and incarcerate people unnecessarily? If your concern is for the overall welfare of society, legalizing and taxing pot will do far more to improve the general state of society than sticking with the status quo. Drug/DEA units can concentrate on things like meth labs, which pose risk to people simply in the general area, which is not the case with pot. Cities and states can use the tax funds to offset other taxes, or provide more general budget.

Your arguments sound like a lot of the paranoia-mongering from people who speculate on improbable outcomes vs. looking at actual data from current legalization efforts and experiments.

[jeffatsquam]

First off let me thank the Webmaster for allowing this debate. I would understand if he thinks that it is not something he wants on his site, but by being able to discuss it with members we are familiar with gives it much more meaning.

And to give it some Lakes region meaning let me throw this out there. I lived here going on 40 years, and operated a small business for over 30 years I'm not a lakefront owner but spend over 300 days a year lakeside. I know many of the locales.

What I have seen over these decades is 100's of families and Lives ruined by alcohol and not a single one affected negatively by pot (other than a couple of bust of people that were doing nobody any harm.

[MAXUM]

Hmm... so this is where this debate gets rather interesting. You say there are benefits to pot, fine maybe there are so when the suggestion is made that it can be made legal for medicinal purposes under the guidance of a medical doctor why isn't that good enough? Why the big push to make it available for "recreational" purposes? This makes no sense whatsoever.

For one, we can stop wasting money, and lives, fighting the "war on drugs" that has NEVER made any real progress in stopping the drug trade. Billions of dollars wasted, and DEA agents killed every year fighting against a non-threat (in the sense of marijuana). That's because the "war" on drugs has never been taken seriously. If it was then there wouldn't be selective prosecution and there would be hard core fines and mandatory lengthy jail time for users and dealers. If there isn't enough jail space build more. Throw all these bums in jail and throw away the key. The whole purpose of having laws and penalties is to discourage certain behaviors yet it's not going to do a damn bit of good when the penalties are laughable. Never mind the fact these criminals are given a very comfortable stay if they do end up in prison. The whole thing is a joke and as is typical of the politicians that claim to be all concerned about it, yeah they are all words and no action.

An interesting thought exercise, but I don't think there is groundswell support for legalizing other drugs right now. I don't think other drugs have shown the same general lack of negative affects, and potential positive affects, that marijuana has. and the same could have been said for pot 10, 20, 30 years ago yet look at where we are today? In fact the same could be said for other recently legalized behaviors but then again it is yet another example of the slow deterioration of a civilized society. Again I say society can legalize whatever it wants, but it doesn't take away from the fact this is self destructive behavior.

There are many many substances that are abused by some individuals. I don't see that as a reason to limit general availability of something that has not been shown to have addictive or harmful qualities in that manner. Many people have no interest in being a part of a functioning society and will abuse leisure time substances for various reasons. You could remove all drugs and alcohol from the world and those people would not suddenly become productive members of society. You're absolutely right, so since we can't stop it completely it's better to just legalize it all and have a ball. That's the most insane argument I have ever heard. However fine let's apply that same thought process to gun control because quite frankly we'll never get all the guns off the streets and what's the harm in letting everyone have whatever they want, whenever they want it. Please do tell how exactly are we supposed to maintain a civilized society when half of it is stoned?

Along the same lines, what about all the people jailed and/or forced to incur large fines for being caught with very small amounts of pot? What about all the cases of police using petty drug arrests as a means to hassle and incarcerate people unnecessarily? What part of possession of pot is ILLEGAL don't you understand? These people break the law they pay the price. My gosh really?

Cities and states can use the tax funds to offset other taxes, or provide more general budget. So as long as there is money to be made that's all that counts huh? Just like the casino argument cloud the negative affects with the promise of tons of tax revenue to create a utopia. Well I suppose if you're stoned it would seem that way.

Your arguments sound like a lot of the paranoia-mongering from people who speculate on improbable outcomes vs. looking at actual data from current legalization efforts and experiments. No I am not paranoid. However make no mistake about it, nonsense like this is slowly but surely destroying this country. So keep it up... like the ancient Romans it didn't happen all at once, a slow breakdown in the morality of the people ultimately lead to it's destruction and we are following the same path almost verbatim. This is just another straw on the camel's back. Legalized perversion of an orderly civilized society doesn't change it's ultimate outcome.

That said this discussion doesn't belong here and is way off the topic of anything having to do with the lake so I will refrain from any further comment.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

You say there are benefits to pot, fine maybe there are so when the suggestion is made that it can be made legal for medicinal purposes under the guidance of a medical doctor why isn't that good enough?

Should we need to see a doctor for every beneficial medicine? Should I need a prescription for aspirin, or Benedryl as well?

Originally Posted by MAXUM

You're absolutely right, so since we can't stop it completely it's better to just legalize it all and have a ball.

Why do you keep making these absurd statements? Who exactly has said "legalize it all" or "have a ball", implying that we should make all drugs freely available to anyone? This general discussion is about the legalization of pot, and the sale/distribution through controlled channels. It has never been about "legalize it all and have a ball".

Originally Posted by MAXUM

how exactly are we supposed to maintain a civilized society when half of it is stoned?

Is it your honest belief that 50% of the population is in favor of freely available marijuana and consumption to the extent that "stoned" becomes the default state of most people?

Originally Posted by MAXUM

What part of possession of pot is ILLEGAL don't you understand? These people break the law they pay the price. My gosh really?

It's a matter of a punishment/crime disparity.

[ApS]

'Just stumbled onto a page of related comments at a national forum.

I once go out of my car and into my truck and promptly backed into my car where I had parked it 60 seconds before.

Pot was definitely the primary reason.

Interesting. A federal study found that alcohol-related violations are down while drug-related ones are up — a lot.

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/02/0...g-drugs/29347/

No link between pot and car crashes, are they kidding? They should have interviewed me. I admit to using pot in my youth. One night I was the "designated driver" because I was less stoned than the others. I remember driving and one of my four friends was bumping my shoulder saying "What's that ahead of us?". Oopsie, I was driving on the center divider island on a boulevard and a light standard pole was fast approaching. Rather, I was approaching it! Cranked the steering wheel and got us back on the road. Me and my friends had other close calls. My girlfriend got me to quit pot before I got into further trouble, and I cleaned up my act in my early twenties. I've caused no accidents since!

Forgetting the clutch as I approached a stop sign was one of my common “That’s why they call it dope” moments.

It would be more helpful to have these numbers broken down by region. We average one fatal or SBI hit and run in Denver a day, and nearly daily I see someone driving while smoking pot. Personally I’d rather not get hit by any of them, fatal or not.

I'm afraid I don't understand the following .gif, as they don't seem to be moving—or is that the point?




Marijuana is much stronger today than in the legislators' days—and mixing it with alcohol and other drugs in the effort to increase one's "high" is too common—as Justin Bieber discovered as he raced his Ferrari through quiet residential streets at triple-digit speeds.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Great information by some folks using facts and statistics instead of "Refer Madness" paranoia. The old arguments are useless when there are already plenty of states to gather real data from. It's a train you can't stop.

[lilyelgato]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The bottom line to this as far as I'm concerned is that pot is a controlled substance and in many cases has been suggested is a gateway drug to the more hardcore stuff.

I'm pretty sure The Science has disproved the "gateway" myth about pot. Try googling "pot not gateway" and see what pops up. Anecdotally, I can say that not one of the many pot smokers I have known (I'm from Colorado) ever turned to harder drugs. Co-occurrence is not the same thing as cause.

Maxim also compared marijuana smoking to tobacco smoking. Marijuana is smoked very differently from cigarettes. Cigarettes are lit and inhaled for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, and many addicts range between 10 and 40 cigarettes per day. Marijuana smokers generally take a few puffs when they smoke, and may do it at most a few times in the same day (smoking often within a short time period only makes it harder to feel its effects). Thus, the time marijuana-only smokers are exposed to smoke is significantly less than to cigarette-only smokers, and should not be compared.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I find it so ironic or maybe better put, hypocritical of those who loathe cigarette smokers but embrace pot as if it's a perfectly fine and healthy thing to do. I suppose as long as it's all natural "free range" pot well heck it's all good. Doesn't this make anyone scratch their head and wonder exactly what is behind all this?

Another smoker of a natural high advocates for the smoking of dead scorpions...

http://scroll.in/article/806866/smok...er-pakhtunkhwa

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