Performance Boats

SIKSUKR · 10-09-2014, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine

about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

gillygirl · 10-09-2014, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine

about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

Oh, jeez. Now I know why Chaselady wants to leave. Couldn't you use a little more tact? Aren't you just whining about whiners?😯

ApS · 10-09-2014, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

There's been a change. Perhaps the forum can stick with one issue, which was excessive boat exhaust noise. I'd like to see the electronic noise-dampening pioneered by Lotus cars applied to noisy boats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

I've been gone for 24 hours, and now we're on another old, and even violent topic! That said, the video's "comments" section includes the observation that one of the victims had said to "Hide the beer cans".

I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

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If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield. A collision here with Diamond Island resulted in the anchor striking a lakefront house!

"Crashes" have been mentioned here before—along with the recommendation to "Take a Performance-Boat Skills Course offered by Tres Martin" (You may select your favorite lake). Only one member here has passed that course, as evidenced by at least three factual "self-sinkings" by "performance boats" on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Back to "exhaust noise".

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same.... I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no noisier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

My one point was that the noise law was changed to dockside testing—which changes everything. A $250 fine for noise violations is ludicrous: a weekend gas-up for ocean-racers goes for less.

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Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter...

Then why has the NHMP reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as the follow-up alternative? I'd like to see a factual response.

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Switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

Same as above: the NHMP has reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as an alternative. Why that reservation?

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But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

Too often, those are "one-and-the-same". In coves, harbors, bays, and inlets that were formerly quiet, exhaust noise has only become an issue in the last 20 years.

Quote:

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them.

My camera has no special powers, but the videos are intended to prove fact. It's up to individual viewers to decide if the point has been made.

This opinion still stands:

Quote:

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

LIforrelaxin · 10-14-2014, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS

I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS

But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield.

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

APS I am not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be making a lot of conjuncture here, with no proof to back it up.

Not to Worry · 10-14-2014, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up.

Just saw this video for the first time. Golly it looked so much fun. His passengers seemed terrified and were holding on for dear life...until the captain way over estimated his abilities to handle the boat and speed. Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

VitaBene · 10-15-2014, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

If you ever get a chance take a run across the broads in a similar boat at 45

in 4' ers to see and feel the difference in control and ride compared to the average 21' boat on the lake.

Not to Worry · 10-16-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

Watch the video and watch the throttle. He has it wide open and the result was that the boat, operator and his passengers could not handle it....least not without injury. If he had been going 45 which btw would have been to fast when he hit the wake but if he was he proably would not have fallen down like a drunk sailor. He was damn lucky he did not kill people.

And no....it is not saying that if you drove at 10 mph we would avoid accidents. It is saying that if operate within the speed limits we are safer then IF WE put the pedal to the metal. I think that is just common sense.

BroadHopper · 10-16-2014, 03:56 PM

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

DEJ · 10-16-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

Rusty · 10-16-2014, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I guess my only point as a "troll" is that as a general rule Lake Winnipesaukee should not see GFBL vessels going 70-100 MPH anymore.
The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

DEJ · 10-16-2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

Not to Worry · 10-16-2014, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

BroadHopper · 10-16-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

And we still have one death too many. I don't see the lake any safer!

Not to Worry · 10-16-2014, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I really have no issue on way or the other but sorry, common sense says the boat in the video was going way to fast FOR the CONDITIONS...otherwise it does not happen. A smarter captain would have slowed down versus going full throttle. This was an issue of speed. Not sure I understand why or how anyone can rationally argue differently, yet it seems that some do and I respect their opinion and do not feel the need to call them trolls.

Ryan · 10-16-2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom.

I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event.

If it was in the "comments" section on Youtube, you really can't dispute that.

Youtube Comments = Facts.

ishoot308 · 10-16-2014, 11:21 AM

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

Webbsatwinni · 10-16-2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

On the performance boat forums it was 51-53 mph, it's forum info, so not substantiated.

Rusty · 10-16-2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

http://archive.news-leader.com/inter...-OF-THE-OZARKS

The driver, Marvin Carter of Memphis, Tenn., was cited with careless and imprudent operation following the Aug. 24 incident. But when the video of the accident was uploaded to YouTube on Aug. 31, he received another citation.

“After seeing the video, he was charged with a seating violation,” said Sgt. Jerry Callahan of the Missouri State Highway Patrol’s Water Division.

Callahan said that Carter estimated he was traveling 70 mph when the accident occurred.

Brett Tintera, a cameraman with LakeTV who was on the boat, disagreed with that estimate and said that Carter had floored the boat moments before the accident.

“We were doing over 100,” said Tintera, who added in a phone interview Wednesday that he’s been boating for over 20 years and dealing with high performance craft for the last half dozen. “When you open the throttles up, you go way higher than 60-70 mph.”

ApS · 10-16-2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

"Working", but suffered bruised ribs, a broken leg, a ruptured disc and a broken wrist! He appears somewhat paler than at the beginning of the video. Maybe he was "resting his head" but had suffered four+ injuries, and vomiting can happen in traumatic events. I hadn't noticed earlier, but the gal in the white suit is behaving similarly.

It was left to the white-shirted "Fury-Racing" guy to shut the camera down.

The "driver" suffered [skull] damage to the orbits of his eyes.

Details from another powerboat forum:

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In addition to breaking a leg and a wrist, [photographer] Tintera says he ruptured a disc in his back and bruised some ribs. Among other injuries sustained by the passengers Tintera counts a broken back, a couple shattered eye sockets, and hips, feet, legs and arms all snapped as the boat shook violently back and forth before coming to a halt.

Tintera's footage has been seen over 3 million times at this point. He says Anderson Cooper invited him to appear on CNN, but he's too busted up to make the trip. The story also made Good Morning America, CBS News, the New York Post and a GIF made of the moment of impact appeared on Tosh.0's blog.

"Is it me or have Budweiser ads gotten kind of violent lately?" Tosh wrote.

Though Tintera understands the voyeuristic appeal of the footage, he's not exactly laughing. He considers himself lucky to be alive.

"If anyone would have been thrown out who knows what would have happened. Probably death," he says. "I'm very lucky to be talking and able to hobble around."

More eye-witness testimony...

The above participants in this seven-passenger "ocean-racer" were described as part of a Poker Run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.

The Internet carries dozens of videos of the earlier seven-passenger crash, but in addition to several other worthwhile "boating adventures", this one carries a far better audio: (That is, if you like the sound of the engines followed by the clear sounds of multiple injuries.)

http://jukinvideo.com/videos/focus/C...VZhlu5ze5Cz74x

In addition to the Internet's many slow-motion segments, the GIF below is notable for fast-tracking the height of the action: watch the gal in yellow. Did she damage the windshield frame with her chin? Then bend the throttles with her ribs?

Her sunglasses go flying, do a "bank-shot" off the windshield frame, and end up back in the boat!

.

SIKSUKR · 10-17-2014, 07:26 AM

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.

Not to Worry · 10-17-2014, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.

I guess this really is beating a dead horse but this video is clearly a result of speed...something they knew they were about to do since they videoed themselves. Simple physics would prove the slower (45 MPH) allows more reaction time. That is a fact not a conjecture.

The Speed Limit does make the lake "safer" but since we cannot outlaw boneheads and just everyday people who make mistakes that can have bad outcomes does not alter the fact the 45 MPH is safer than going 100 MPH. I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

I do not really understand why we all accept speed limits on the road and skimobile trails yet somehow a common sense speed limit on the lake does not. I would assume the speed limit and noise limit are here to stay so maybe it is time to move on.

BTW....many sections of the inland waterway is heavily restricted in terms of speed...with many, many sections limited to no wake or minimum wake.

VitaBene · 10-17-2014, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

The other boater may have seen you perfectly well... which vessel was stand-on? I unfortunately, have been stand-on too many times and not been "given away" to and had to change my course. My friend was stand-on in Alton this summer and was hit hard on his port side.

The 'old "speed limit was essentially "reasonable and prudent for the conditions". The new SL says 45 or 30, however, either speed may be too fast for the conditions, but can easily give someone the defense of "but I was going the speed limit".

The SL is the SL, it is not going to change- we are beating a dead horse. But when people post a viral video of a poor boater, not on this lake, and try to make it something out of it, that it is not, people may respond.

BroadHopper · 10-17-2014, 09:01 AM

With the limited manpower you would think it make sense to beef up the DUI laws, and other laws in existence rather than run around the lake looking for speeders. In fact since the law has pass there seem to be more boneheads on the lake, probably because of this. We are actually on the wrong track!

Since Winnfibs told the legislature that the lake is safe, they really assume that and future legislation are not needed. I didn't make this up as I have talk to a number of them in the halls and that is the impression! Again false signals that actually make the lake more dangerous!

LIforrelaxin · 10-17-2014, 12:36 PM

I find myself in awe here, at where this thread has gone. I know I have played a part in that. But the bottom line is the bottom line.... We now have a speed limit law and it is what it is. We also have a noise law, and it is what it is....

If people break those laws they get into trouble if they are caught.

Don't say these laws aren't good enough, or try to defended them with scare tactics.

The battles over these trivial things has tainted the lake enough as it is. Everyone has their own opinion, and should be able to voice it. Make sure the Facts are Facts and not conjecture or opinion when you do so, and we will find that we all get along better.

LIforrelaxin · 10-17-2014, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApS

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.

.

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

fatlazyless · 10-18-2014, 05:59 AM

Well......I have brought this up before and always it gets totally ignored.....so not having anything better to do and being totally bored out of my mind I will bring it up again.....

...what Lake Winnipesaukee needs is a "no speed limit zone" on Sundays from nine to noon out on the broads!

That could be a fun area to go watch as a spectator boat, supposedly safe from behind the boundary marker buoys, as the big super-duper big-money go-fasts roar back and forth real fast.... like at 107-mph, gps confirmed! .... what a super suggestion.....ladies & gentlemen.....puh-lease start your engines!!!!

Rusty · 10-18-2014, 06:53 AM

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate.

Seaplane Pilot · 10-19-2014, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate.

That's perfect Rusty - see ya later! Vermont is nice this time of year. We'll all miss you.

Bidding you farewell with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM-mKx8UIGs

ApS · 10-18-2014, 06:56 PM

Now I'm curious what could have happened at Lake Champlain to bring this issue to such prominence in Vermont politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

You are correct: the video with the sharp images was located at http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898; however, that site is no longer available—"404".

I found references to the crash from a speedboat website that is now closed to public viewing of, the um..., speed, alcohol, drug, and moral "indiscretions" of their many members.

Other sites bemoaned the helicopters, as the need to show off for an aerial video camera appears too great to resist.

The screenshot follows, with the areas highlighted in yellow of most interest:

.

Which is not to say, they are not without humor in the same thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

Again, the video and the accompanying narrative (above) is presented for members' perusal. Sometimes, proving a fact with videos and screenshots can't convince some viewers.

SIKSUKR, the driver that crossed 2½ lanes, then struck the rear of a stopped truck, and then was struck in turn by the dash-cam truck survived the ordeal! The torn roof of her car flew up to the truck's windshield, and appears below. A witness to the wreck also crossed over to the far right lane and stopped—to perhaps render EMT aid—or maybe leave a business card of his law firm.

Dash-cams have brought much scrutiny to inexcusable roadway behaviors. Here, we have only two boating videos, when there should be many more available showing the participant's attitude.

VitaBene · 10-18-2014, 10:12 PM