E15 Ethanol Warning!!

[Billy Bob]

Guess I'm a day or so late to write in . Today my 2011 Volvo is in the shop for some nasty problems all caused by e 10 gas . it's not just boats, old cars and small engines that are being damaged !
And last spring when we put the boat in on Winni from storeage I had a couple hundred in damage to a 2 year old 75 hp e tech . this gas is junk and needs to be retired .

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Guess I'm a day or so late to write in . Today my 2011 Volvo is in the shop for some nasty problems all caused by e 10 gas . it's not just boats, old cars and small engines that are being damaged !
And last spring when we put the boat in on Winni from storeage I had a couple hundred in damage to a 2 year old 75 hp e tech . this gas is junk and needs to be retired .

Did you stabile it with the required amount for long storage? Or even better run it dry or at least leave as little gas in the tank as possible.
I've been storing my sleds for a lot longer then boats are stored for and have not had an issue since doing what I mentioned above. We get as much fuel out the year before then fill the tank up with fresh gas when we take them out of storage.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Today my 2011 Volvo is in the shop for some nasty problems all caused by e 10 gas .

Like what? E10 should run fine in your Volvo.

When you get a run down of what E10 did to your engine, please let us know.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Like what? E10 should run fine in your Volvo.

When you get a run down of what E10 did to your engine, please let us know.

Unless it sat for a long period then I also have heard little about E-10 problems on auto's, especially new ones.
I did however have a really bad running Xterra that I used little so it had gas that was over 30 days old in it. I topped it off with fresh gas and it ran fine after that.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

Today my 2011 Volvo is in the shop for some nasty problems all caused by e 10 gas .

What were the results with the "nasty problem"?

[robmac]

Ethanol was put in for one reson and one reson only to help the auto manufacturers meet current and upcoming emission standards with winimal further investment on their part. You add a natural hydrocarbon to an un natural hydrocarbon and miricle emission issue solved. Tech have been doing it since the first sniffer went in a tailpipe in CA. Just my 2 pennies

[Billy Bob]

First , on the toys in New Hampshire , last year I did NOT use the stableizer but this year I did so I hope I have a better result if spring comes to New Hamp.

On the 2011 Volvo here , They suggusted a tank of Hi test which did nothing . On Monday they did a software update to some engine computer that aparently retards the engine so it wont knock . ( all covered in the warentee ) seems the previous software also had some issue that was also causing the thing to attempt to start from second gear not first , that will slow you down , all related to the attempt to use this junk gas and make the car preform well and quietly. The software change worked great and its like new again. Seems you need a lot more "stuff " under the hood to keep a semi high preformance engine running on this crap . Have to wonder what will happen when these cars are out of warentee and I have to pick up the tab for all the computer issues .

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

First , on the toys in New Hampshire , last year I did NOT use the stableizer but this year I did so I hope I have a better result if spring comes to New Hamp.

On the 2011 Volvo here , They suggusted a tank of Hi test which did nothing . On Monday they did a software update to some engine computer that aparently retards the engine so it wont knock . ( all covered in the warentee ) seems the previous software also had some issue that was also causing the thing to attempt to start from second gear not first , that will slow you down , all related to the attempt to use this junk gas and make the car preform well and quietly. The software change worked great and its like new again. Seems you need a lot more "stuff " under the hood to keep a semi high preformance engine running on this crap . Have to wonder what will happen when these cars are out of warentee and I have to pick up the tab for all the computer issues .

Or worse if they do decide to go to E-15.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

First , on the toys in New Hampshire , last year I did NOT use the stableizer but this year I did so I hope I have a better result if spring comes to New Hamp.

On the 2011 Volvo here , They suggusted a tank of Hi test which did nothing . On Monday they did a software update to some engine computer that aparently retards the engine so it wont knock . ( all covered in the warentee ) seems the previous software also had some issue that was also causing the thing to attempt to start from second gear not first , that will slow you down , all related to the attempt to use this junk gas and make the car preform well and quietly. The software change worked great and its like new again. Seems you need a lot more "stuff " under the hood to keep a semi high preformance engine running on this crap . Have to wonder what will happen when these cars are out of warentee and I have to pick up the tab for all the computer issues .

Thanks for the response and I'm glad you got it fixed...for the time being anyway.
I never had any luck with Volvo's or Saab's. They were too expensive to fix and not all mechanics liked working on them.

[NoBozo]

You people are forgetting THE Problem. It's NOT some software in some particular car brand. It's that Ethanol in the gas you buy turns to GOO in something like 30-60 days in your gas tank IF you don't use it. Once the GOO gets in your system you have problems. NB

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

You people are forgetting THE Problem. It's NOT some software in some particular car brand. It's that Ethanol in the gas you buy turns to GOO in something like 30-60 days in your gas tank IF you don't use it. Once the GOO gets in your system you have problems. NB

The statement that needs to follow here is that you should put stabilizer in anything that you don't regularly use.

Cars that are driven every day don't have issue, because you cycle through the gas quickly.

Boats, lawn mowers, chain saw, snowmobiles etc. that have extensive down time, will run into issue.

I personally run stabilizer in all my toys all the time, and then I never have to worry.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by robmac

Ethanol was put in for one reson and one reson only to help the auto manufacturers meet current and upcoming emission standards with winimal further investment on their part. You add a natural hydrocarbon to an un natural hydrocarbon and miricle emission issue solved. Tech have been doing it since the first sniffer went in a tailpipe in CA. Just my 2 pennies

Not sure this is a correct theory. I have seen many articles that emissions coming from the E-10 are worse than the old gas. MPG dimishes with ethanol. Ethanol was put in and stays in because it all tied to farm sudsbidies the Government doles out.

[SAB1]

Oh forgot to mention and I know it is hard to change peoples opinions and dont intend to but I do now store all my takes full in offseason. No poke at you intended Belmont. All the boat/car/motorcyle/snowmobile mechanics I use now say to store full as do the charter fisherman out at Lake O. The initial year ethanol came out they (mechanics)were against this due to possible phase separation but now they all tell me to store full especially if you have a metal tank and load them up with Stabil (always did anyway). To much condensation can form on the empty sides of the tanks. Plastic tanks less of an issue. I also run Star tron in everything now. Stinks buying it and paying more money but I have had so many issues with small outboard carb's its worth it. Several people I know with snowmobile store their tanks full and then in spring syphon the gas out and run it through their cars.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Oh forgot to mention and I know it is hard to change peoples opinions and dont intend to but I do now store all my takes full in offseason. No poke at you intended Belmont. All the boat/car/motorcyle/snowmobile mechanics I use now say to store full as do the charter fisherman out at Lake O. The initial year ethanol came out they (mechanics)were against this due to possible phase separation but now they all tell me to store full especially if you have a metal tank and load them up with Stabil (always did anyway). To much condensation can form on the empty sides of the tanks. Plastic tanks less of an issue. I also run Star tron in everything now. Stinks buying it and paying more money but I have had so many issues with small outboard carb's its worth it. Several people I know with snowmobile store their tanks full and then in spring syphon the gas out and run it through their cars.

Hey to each their own, but, personally I would rather drain or leave as little in as possible because, after 30 days even with stabile your fuel isn't the same as it was before storage. So for me I'd rather have a little not so fresh stabilized gas and top it off with as much fresh gas as possible to start off the season. Remember stabilized fuel is not near a good as none stabilized fuel. Yes it does burn but it is not as efficient and more likely to foul plugs and rob you of horsepower.
Maybe it is different for sleds but our dealer says drain as much if not all out.
I've had great luck doing it this way and I hope you have the same doing it the old way.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Oh forgot to mention and I know it is hard to change peoples opinions and dont intend to but I do now store all my takes full in offseason. No poke at you intended Belmont. All the boat/car/motorcyle/snowmobile mechanics I use now say to store full as do the charter fisherman out at Lake O. The initial year ethanol came out they (mechanics)were against this due to possible phase separation but now they all tell me to store full especially if you have a metal tank and load them up with Stabil (always did anyway). To much condensation can form on the empty sides of the tanks. Plastic tanks less of an issue. I also run Star tron in everything now. Stinks buying it and paying more money but I have had so many issues with small outboard carb's its worth it. Several people I know with snowmobile store their tanks full and then in spring syphon the gas out and run it through their cars.

You are absolutely correct SAB1. By emptying the tank and carburetor gaskets and seals will definitely dry up and crack a lot faster also. Best to stabilize and keep tank and carb full. Been doing it this way since the introduction of ethanol and haven't had any issues yet.

Dan

[jrc]

There is so much misinformation on ethanol that it's hard to know what is true.

On small engines, I always use stabile on the last tank, drain as much as possible and then run them dry. I never used to worry about it but since ethanol, I've had to rebuild one (out of a set of four) motorcycle carbs and a snowblower carb.

The boat has two 130 gallon steel tanks, draining is not practical and having 260 gallons of 6 month old fuel in May is not appealing. So I load up with stabile or similar during the last top off and store with somewhere under a quarter tank. My mechanic winterizes the engines and does whatever he does. Come spring it starts right up. Then I usually fill up with fresh gas.

This is season seven for this boat coming up and it has never seen non-ethanol fuel.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by jrc

There is so much misinformation on ethanol that it's hard to know what is true.

On small engines, I always use stabile on the last tank, drain as much as possible and then run them dry. I never used to worry about it but since ethanol, I've had to rebuild one (out of a set of four) motorcycle carbs and a snowblower carb.

The boat has two 130 gallon steel tanks, draining is not practical and having 260 gallons of 6 month old fuel in May is not appealing. So I load up with stabile or similar during the last top off and store with somewhere under a quarter tank. My mechanic winterizes the engines and does whatever he does. Come spring it starts right up. Then I usually fill up with fresh gas.

This is season seven for this boat coming up and it has never seen non-ethanol fuel.

WAYYYYYYY too much misinformation!! They should just get rid of ethanol so we, the middle class, can keep some of our hard-earned money. All ethanol does is put OUR money in someone else's pockets!!

I'm in a similar situation only I only have one 96 gal tank and like you said, draining it is not practical or easy. BUT, I do just the opposite of you, I fill the tank to the top and load it up with Marine Stabile in the recommended dosage for long storage. I've been through 12 seasons with this boat now doing it this way and, knock on wood, I haven't had a problem yet. One year I couldn't find Marine Stabile in any of the auto stores near me so I used Seafoam; no problems that year either.

I use Stabile (blue or red) in all my small engines (and the boat) and maybe I've just been lucky but, so far, so good!

[SAB1]

Though I don't have experience with it, charter captains at Lake O have also cautioned me about storing a partial tank. Apparently alcohol is a conductor and the old gas we had without ethanol wasn't. The alcohol can cause galvanic corrosion where it meets the air thus deteriorating a tank. No experience with it but they claim it happens. Anyway, one thing I do do no matter if its a two stroke or a 4 stroke is fog all my engines pull my plugs a blast each cylinder after fogging. I never skip that.

On an off topic, Belmont, for chain case oil in the snowmobile, do you use a gear lube? I see many guys use 75w 90 rather than what the stuff at the dealer.

[BroadHopper]

I have a 1988 I/O with an 80 gallon gas tank. The tank has neoprene liner to prevent corrosion of the aluminum. Since the boat was built before ethanol was added to the gas, the neoprene liner, the gas hoses and the carburetor gaskets have all deterorated from the ethanol. Ethanol is technically a solvent and will disolve any neoprene and rubber materials. New gaskets and liners are made of a different material and are impervious to ethanol.

The gas tank, all the gas hoses and the gaskets on the carb have all been replace costiong me $thousands. At the time the govt claims it is not cause by ethanol. Go figure.

[SAB1]

Though I don't have experience with it, charter captains at Lake O have also cautioned me about storing a partial tank. Apparently alcohol is a conductor and the old gas we had without ethanol wasn't. The alcohol can cause galvanic corrosion where it meets the air thus deteriorating a tank. No experience with it but they claim it happens. Anyway, one thing I do do no matter if its a two stroke or a 4 stroke is fog all my engines pull my plugs a blast each cylinder after fogging. I never skip that.

On an off topic, Belmont, for chain case oil in the snowmobile, do you use a gear lube? I see many guys use 75w 90 rather than what the stuff at the dealer.

[robmac]

The goo that was mentioned in a prior post is the result of phase separation,this happens when the Ethanol absorbs its maximum amount of moisture and separates from the gasoline and drops to the bottom of you gas tank because it is heavier.This Goo(which looks grey and consistency of like karo syrup) is picked up and the destruction begins. As stated most cars and trucks turn the fuel over quick enough the it doesn't affect them as badly.E15 will affect cars and trucks due to the ECM programing which will allow them to run on 10% ethanol by volume unless you own a vehicle designed for E85.When on winter blend gas you can test it as I am forced to do because of my occupation I have found this year winter blend containing up to 16% by volume.Hence poor performance,poor fuel economy and other driveability issues.Small engines or vehicle that sit for periods of time where the gas isn't going to be cycled through within 60 days you should be adding a product that prevent phase separation. My brand of choice is Startron,I have used it since 2004 and have never had an issue relating to fuel. On the water some marinas treat the fuel in their tanks so the work is done for you Like Channel/valvtech-Shep Browns/Startron etc. which ever you choose make absolutly it is designed and they stand behind it if it doent work.I cant stand watching parts people still selling red Stabil it is useless when you have E10 fuel. Just my 2 cents

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by robmac

The goo that was mentioned in a prior post is the result of phase separation,this happens when the Ethanol absorbs its maximum amount of moisture and separates from the gasoline and drops to the bottom of you gas tank because it is heavier.This Goo(which looks grey and consistency of like karo syrup) is picked up and the destruction begins. As stated most cars and trucks turn the fuel over quick enough the it doesn't affect them as badly.E15 will affect cars and trucks due to the ECM programing which will allow them to run on 10% ethanol by volume unless you own a vehicle designed for E85.When on winter blend gas you can test it as I am forced to do because of my occupation I have found this year winter blend containing up to 16% by volume.Hence poor performance,poor fuel economy and other driveability issues.Small engines or vehicle that sit for periods of time where the gas isn't going to be cycled through within 60 days you should be adding a product that prevent phase separation. My brand of choice is Startron,I have used it since 2004 and have never had an issue relating to fuel. On the water some marinas treat the fuel in their tanks so the work is done for you Like Channel/valvtech-Shep Browns/Startron etc. which ever you choose make absolutly it is designed and they stand behind it if it doent work.I cant stand watching parts people still selling red Stabil it is useless when you have E10 fuel. Just my 2 cents

I have been using the RED STABIL for years without any problems. Do you have any white papers or facts to back up your claim that it is useless?

[BroadHopper]

I have seen two sides to that story in the boat magazines. The latest story in Boat US is that ethanol stabilzers work for 18 months. If you your going to empty the tank within 18 months than leave the tank full. If you are going to store the gas longer then empty the tank.

My mechanic says it doesn't matter how much is in the tank. You are storing the boat for a few months with stabilizer, today's water filter can compensate for any water and bad ethanol.

I talk to another reliable mechanic and he confirmed this finding.

[robmac]

if the red stabil was effective they wouldn't have invested all the money to come up with the new stabil for ethanol. Simple business 101 why make new if old works fine. Check with small engine repair shops RV repair centers they love it. Never had a problem using Startron since E10 was thrust upon us nor have I seen any issues when using it(I am in the repair industry)

[Rich]

Did you know they have an 'app' for that!

That's right, an app to help you find non E-10 (or E-15) gas.

Please note that I just found this the other day and haven't used it yet, other than to check to see what it shows in our area.

The app is called "Pure Gas" and I have it on my Android, I understand there may be an Apple version too. It's supposed to be driven by the pure-gas.org website.

Note that the app lists Channel Marine as having 'Ethanol-free VALVTECT 89 and 91 Octane'. I have not tried to verify this information. The info may be entered by end users, so I suppose that it could be incorrect, but I hear everything on the Internet is true. How do I know? They said so on the Internet!

[BroadHopper]

is a additive like Startron or Stabil.
Not sure why Channel Marine would add this to ethanol free gas.

http://www.valvtect.com/

Last summer their pumps had the contains 10% ethanol sticker. This will be a welcome addition to the lake this summer.

I don't expect the price to be cheaper as ethanol is subsidized by the govt. and currently almost $1 a gallon cheaper than gas. Ethanol is the most inefficient fuel to burn as it cost more to produce ethanol than gas. Most of our ethanol comes from Brazil. I thought the whole idea of ethanol was to be independent of fuel from foreign countries? Ecologically ethanol is a disaster as Brazil is clear cutting the rain forest for ethanol production.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

is a additive like Startron or Stabil.
Not sure why Channel Marine would add this to ethanol free gas.

http://www.valvtect.com/

Last summer their pumps had the contains 10% ethanol sticker. This will be a welcome addition to the lake this summer.

I don't expect the price to be cheaper as ethanol is subsidized by the govt. and currently almost $1 a gallon cheaper than gas. Ethanol is the most inefficient fuel to burn as it cost more to produce ethanol than gas. Most of our ethanol comes from Brazil. I thought the whole idea of ethanol was to be independent of fuel from foreign countries? Ecologically ethanol is a disaster as Brazil is clear cutting the rain forest for ethanol production.

Pretty soon when we go to the pump we might be saying: "Fill it up with rain forest please".

Brazil produces surgar cane ethanol, and the US produces corn ethanol. The US is the number one producer of ethanol and Brazil is second.

As far as how much each country imports and exports is something that I don't think you will find an answer to right now, I couldn't anyway.