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04-23-2012, 12:01 PM | #1 |
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Four Winns Boat Porpoising
Hi Folks,
I just bought a 1995 Four Winns 190 Horizon for my older boys to use this summer so Daddy doesn't need to take them out tubing etc. every 5 minutes. It has a 5.0L V8 and is 215 HP. The boat runs terrific, planes quickly but porpoises pretty severely as soon as I start to trim it up. It's ok with the drive all the way in but that makes it plow and kills the top end speed. It doesn't seem to matter if there's 2 or 4 people in the boat or where they sit. Even trimming it up just a little makes it start to porpoise. I also have a 28' Formula with twins so I know how to trim an engine and use trim tabs etc. I'm thinking about buying a "fin" for the out drive, but before I start drilling holes I wanted to see if anyone has had luck with one of these eliminating porpoising. Thanks in advance for your replies. |
04-23-2012, 12:12 PM | #2 |
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You can try a lower prop pitch, maybe cheaper than a fin and no drilling. Keep your old one as a spare, they may need it.
If you have a common outdrive and an aluminum prop, you may be able to try before you buy. |
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dippasan (04-23-2012) |
04-23-2012, 12:17 PM | #3 |
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I totally agree with jrc
Many years ago I tried one of those Fins on a 176 Stingray that we had .... no appreciable change (and the fins looked ugly)
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04-23-2012, 12:21 PM | #4 |
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JRC,
Thanks for the quick reply. I researched several "fins" and the one that got the best reviews was the SE Sport 300 and costs about $60. Still cheaper than most props. I know they're popular on smaller boats as I see them all the time. I actually have 2 props that came with the boat and I will certainly try the other one to see if it helps. Just thought I'd see if any "locals" have had good results with a fin. Thanks! |
04-23-2012, 12:29 PM | #5 |
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04-23-2012, 12:32 PM | #6 |
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I have the same boat , a little newer , I had the fin on my boat from when I bought the boat a few years earlier and last summer decided to take it off and see what happened .
Well basicly nothing happened . Ran the same so I woulden't spend the money. Issues of this type do come down to the type and pitch of the prop. |
04-23-2012, 01:27 PM | #7 |
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dippasan....
A boat porpoises due to overtrimming the drive relative to the speed the boat is traveling. Too slow + too much positive trim = porpoising. Another cause for porpoising is a nasty hook in the hull. You can take a long straight edge to the bottom of the boat to see if this is the case. I doubt it though. If thats the case its not a cheap fix. You didnt say who made the powertrain... I assume its OMC? In anycase I would follow the advice above and look at changing your prop. Not sure what the prop size was originally, (prob somewhere around a 14.25 x 21) but if you can find that out that would be a good place to start. Def go with a 3 blade stainless steel prop over the original aluminum. You can have some cup added to the prop to allow more bow lift. Here is a link to Four Winns website... http://www.fourwinns.com/past_produc...20(p12-16).pdf Woodsy
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04-23-2012, 01:47 PM | #8 | |
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Would you suggest the 14.5 x 21? Thanks again |
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04-23-2012, 02:15 PM | #9 | |
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04-23-2012, 02:25 PM | #10 |
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Another view on fins (but for an outboard)
My 4Winns 18 with an outboard was porpoising badly. I added a fin and it helped a lot. Its been on there for 10 years and I'm happy with the way it works.
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04-23-2012, 02:47 PM | #11 |
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If your Four Winns has the correct propeller, it should not be porpoising. Chances are, the correct propeller was damaged and the previous owner replaced it with something that could he could get used or cheap.
Talk to a dealer about what you should have, either Winnisquam Marine, or Melvin Village. There are so many of those boats out there, it is hard to believe they would perform so poorly. Or google it. I am sure there is a solution that will not require trim tabs, and like the other contributors said, don't put on a the wing on. The wing is out of the water when you are planed off. It will have no effect. Good Luck! |
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dippasan (04-23-2012) |
04-23-2012, 03:05 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
The link that Woodsy sent to me was great and showed all the boat specs including the recommended prop. It calls for a 14.25 x 21. The prop on the drive now that seems to be causing the porpoising is a 15 x 17 and my spare is a 14.5 x 19. At least the 14.5 x 19 is close and will hopefully make a big difference. If you see a Four Winns running laps between Sleepers and the sand bar this weekend....you'll know why. I'll be testing props. Thanks!! |
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04-23-2012, 03:21 PM | #13 | |
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Fyi
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04-23-2012, 04:26 PM | #14 | |
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Only kidding but it is about $700 more than I want to spend on a new prop. What advantage does a 4 blade have? Better out of the hole? Thanks |
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04-23-2012, 06:37 PM | #15 |
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dippasan...
You have the wrong prop on the boat.... but it def explains the good hole shot. I would try to find a good used (not rehubbed or rebuilt) 14.25 X 21 per the Four Winns spec. Then go from there. The boat companies spend alot of time testing to find a good all around prop. But if you really want to play with props..... a 4 blade 19P will prob rock the boat. It will give a great holeshot and pretty decent top speed. As a rule if you go from a 3 blade to a 4 blade you drop 2" of Pitch to account for swinging the extra blade... Woodsy
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04-23-2012, 06:56 PM | #16 |
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I went to Fays ..maybe three/four years ago. They have a loft with a bunch of used props. I picked one out..and they loaned me a used SS Cleaver for my Donzi Classic. They let me "Try It Out" for over a week..at no cost. They trusted me. I went back after the week and bought the prop. NB
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04-24-2012, 06:07 AM | #17 | |
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dippasan
Quote:
I was only using my info as an example. Yes the prop was expensive but the difference in handling on my 25 Baja can’t be described it had to be driven to appreciate. At speeds in the mid to high 60’s you notice things you just don’t on runabouts. As Woodsy mentioned the correct 4 blade prop will give you pulling power you never knew you had, yes you probably will loose some top end but you generally prop your boat to what you plan on using it for. Also if you are plunking down 80-100K for a boat, a prop even at $1000 is nothing. Good luck with your research
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04-24-2012, 08:54 AM | #18 | |
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I had a 25' Cobalt and now have a 28' Formula Bow rider with twin 260 hp's which I would have no problem spending the dough on for a performance prop. The Four Winns bow rider is a $4500 starter boat for my 2 older sons (20 and 22) and I think will be a perfect boat for them if I can get this porpoising sorted out. I would love to go with a stainless 4 blade but I'd be afraid after a day with their friends out on the Winni, the prop might come back as a 3 blade if you know what I mean. (I remember when I was learning to drive a boat). I'm definitely looking forward to trying the 14.5x21. If I recall that's exactly what I had on one of my first boats which was a 21' Sea ray br with a 4.3. Bottom line is I'm thrilled that the Sea Doo's are gone and the kids have a safe boat to use instead. Thanks again for all the valuable info and we'll see you on the water. |
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04-24-2012, 09:57 AM | #19 |
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dipassan -
Based on your earlier decription of where you'll be out "Test Driving" is it a fair conclusion to presume that you might be in at WAM ? If so, I would certainly think John would let you demo/test various pitch props
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04-24-2012, 03:43 PM | #20 | |
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Another thought
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04-24-2012, 04:25 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
Thanks again |
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04-25-2012, 07:22 AM | #22 | ||
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Quote:
One suggestion was that "rack storage" introduces the problem, and that extended-transoms on FourWinns have a "hook". Quote:
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04-25-2012, 09:42 AM | #23 |
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15 x 17
I would think a 15 x 17 would let the engine rev a bit too fast at WOT and would also have a negative affect on the top speed. Kind of like having 4:11s in the rear end of a car.
We have a 19' Horizon with a Stringray Hydrofoil Stabilizer and it makes a big difference on triming the boat. |
04-26-2012, 11:43 AM | #24 |
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Lots of advise on this thread.
I am familiar with 4Winns as I had a classic Liberator for my first performance boat. I experince 'chine walking' at speed. I usually trim the drive down, as I increase speed, I will trim up until the boat starts to porpoise and trim down. I used the trim.
The factory prop should be your starting point. If you experience 'blow outs' during tubing or hard turnings, going down a pitch helps but you will find switching to a 4 blade will be even better! Some props like the Mercury Lazer creates bow lift, some props like the Mirage is good for heavier boats. Please look at the Mercruiser prop selection guide and you will see what each brand of props do to handling. I know you have an OMC, but I am just giving you an idea what changing props can do to a boat. Winnisquam Marine gives excellent advise for your boat and I would take their word for it. Please give them a call, you won't be disappointed. Have a wonderful summer with your purchase. See you on the lake!
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05-02-2012, 08:42 PM | #25 |
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I have a 1992 FourWinns Horizon 190, OMC 5.0. Everything (but a $1200 gearset) is 100% stock. I have been running a 3 blade 14.5 x 19 since, well, since 1992. Most recent prop is a "Michigan", I think from Overtons. Never had a problem. I top out right at about 50 +/- based on water, fuel level, etc. Sounds like you just have the wrong prop on there.
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05-07-2012, 07:16 AM | #26 | |
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I have installed a 14.5x19 but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I'm confident that will solve the problem. Thanks
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05-21-2012, 11:10 AM | #27 |
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You might be trimming it out to far for the amount of throttle you are giving it. My boat is prone to do the same thing and it is always a throttle/trim issue.
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05-30-2012, 05:45 PM | #28 | |
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My son took the Power Squadron safety class last fall and received his certificate. Saturday was the first day that my old boat left the beach without an adult on it! He is a good boater so I only worry a little less The 86 Chris Craft 210 will be his to use. |
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06-06-2012, 10:16 AM | #29 | |
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I absoutely love the Formula 280 Bow Rider. It does so many things so well. Carries lots of people (yacht certification, so from what I've read there's no limit to # of passengers) I've had 18 people on it with plenty of room and cruising at 30mph. With the twin engines it maneuvers unbelievable (which I'm still getting used to), and gets on plane effortlessly even with a full load. It's very heavy so it rides like a dream, it never "slams", is incredibly quiet, almost no engine noise, great floor plan, ton's of storage and a very high quality overall feel to it. I appreciate it more every time I take it out. I had a 25' Cobalt BR before that which I loved also but needed more passenger space. I would highly recommend a formula 260, 280 or 310 bow rider to anyone. The 310 was the largest bow rider made until this year when Formula revealed a new 35' CBR crossover bow rider. Pretty cool. It just keeps getting better!!!! Have a great summer and we'll see ya on the Lake!!
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06-08-2012, 08:15 AM | #30 | |
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Ps. The tabs have a piston that extends the tab down until water pressure builds to compress the piston and push the tab up. |
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