Castle's tax-exempt status?

[Senter Cove Guy]

5 = employees
$409,119 = Salaries, other compensation, employee benefits (Part IX, column
(A), lines 5-10)

$81,824 = Avg per employee

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I understand there are 2 people who have a base salary in excess of $100,000. Not bad in a poor economy. It's this sort of practice that makes people wonder why they can't be more supportive of the towns where they own so much real estate.

[jrc]

There's good money to be made in charity.

[tis]

Originally Posted by jrc

There's good money to be made in charity.

That's the problem I have with these charities. Remember when Elizabeth Dole ran for president and she was making 13 million as head of the Red Cross? And then they want to take all the property away from the towns and not pay taxes????

[fatlazyless]

Looking through a good set of binoculars from the Town of Gilford's Lincoln Park located on Lake Winnipesaukee, you can see very well the Castle in the Clouds and the adjoining 5000-acres ossipee mountain range from a distance of about ten miles. Maybe someone wants to run over to Lincoln Park this morning and make a real good, high resolution photograph and have it posted here by noon........anyone?

It would be nice to have a photo of the Castle here.

.......

Some Winnipesaukee waterfront summer camps pay regular property taxes, and some do not? Camp Winnaukee in Moultonborough is reported to pay full property taxes.

Camp Monotomy, a no longer operating girl scout camp owned by the Girl Scouts of Massachusetts is reported to pay no property tax and it has been closed for about eight years. It gets very light use for about two weeks per year with its' Whispering Pines program. If those pines could talk, you know what they would say.....they would be whispering.....pssstttt.....hey lookie here.....what a great deal.....all this land, waterfront and hundred year old trees......zero taxes.....and just one black bear for a year round resident......SUCH-A-DEAL....whisper.....whisper......whisper!

The Appalachian Mountain Club's Three Mile Island Camp is reported to pay $20,000/year as a payment in lieu of taxes to the Town of Meredith which is just peanuts compared to what Three Mile Island would be paying as a whole were it to be subdivided into one acre waterfront lots.

.....

If the Castle were to pay property tax then how much would it be paying and how much would that be impacting it mission as an historic and educational venue?

.....

Here's a thought just for laughs: What the town needs is some type of a reverse tax where the Town of Moultonborough pays a reverse tax out to its residents. Just looking at the town buildings and town salaries, it appears that the town definitely goes first class!

[Sal]

Here it is, with lower Carriage House, on 3/18/11.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It would be nice to have a photo of the Castle here.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/index.php?pageid=castle

[neckdweller]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Some Winnipesaukee waterfront summer camps pay regular property taxes, and some do not? Camp Winnaukee in Moultonborough is reported to pay full property taxes.

Camp Monotomy, a no longer operating girl scout camp owned by the Girl Scouts of Massachusetts is reported to pay no property tax and it has been closed for about eight years. It gets very light use for about two weeks per year with its' Whispering Pines program. If those pines could talk, you know what they would say.....they would be whispering.....pssstttt.....hey lookie here.....what a great deal.....all this land, waterfront and hundred year old trees......zero taxes.....and just one black bear for a year round resident......SUCH-A-DEAL....whisper.....whisper......whisper!

The Appalachian Mountain Club's Three Mile Island Camp is reported to pay $20,000/year as a payment in lieu of taxes to the Town of Meredith which is just peanuts compared to what Three Mile Island would be paying as a whole were it to be subdivided into one acre waterfront lots.

I don't believe Camp Winaukee has nonprofit status and at $10K per camper their revenue is roughly $3.7MM from tuition. I highly doubt they're paying their full tax burden out of the goodness of their hearts.

Up the street is nonprofit Camp Techumseh which is a "bargain" at $6,800 (camper revenue of about $1.1MM). They do not pay property taxes but I believe they do pay some amount in lieu of taxes.

5 = employees
$409,119 = Salaries, other compensation, employee benefits (Part IX, column
(A), lines 5-10)

$81,824 = Avg per employee

If a camp/private school/organization can obey the laws and restrictions of nonprofit status, I don't really see anything a town can do about collecting taxes. One of those restrictions is the payment of "reasonable" salaries. You couldn't pay the person operating the Castle $500K because that is not reasonable given their responsibilities but $100K wouldn't be out of the question.

[fatlazyless]

http://moultonborospeaks.blogspot.com/

Coverage on last night's August 4 Moultonborough selectman debate on the Castle's tax exempt status does not seem to be in any of the local newspapers today? HELLO!.......did anybody attend the selectman's debate in Moultonborough last night?

Audio-video from July 21 meeting: http://moultonborospeaks.blogspot.co...servation.html ..... click on '19:50 of part one' ...

[CrawfordCentury]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://moultonborospeaks.blogspot.com/

Coverage on last night's August 4 Moultonborough selectman debate on the Castle's tax exempt status does not seem to be in any of the local newspapers today? HELLO!.......did anybody attend the selectman's debate in Moultonborough last night?

Audio-video from July 21 meeting: http://moultonborospeaks.blogspot.co...servation.html ..... click on '19:50 of part one' ...

That was a good piece. At issue is approx. $69k in revenue were there to be a status change - about .003% of the town's $22M annual budget.

This would be bad for the Castle in donor relations, too. There was some earlier discussion hereabout questionable expenditures by nonprofits. Donors are turned off by this stuff. Likewise, a donor or donor prospect may reconsider having the knowledge that their gift will possibly used to pay town taxes and not invested in program support. There's the potential that a vicious cycle develops: the nonprofit needs more cash to fund nonprogram expenditures. Donors don't like subsidizing town coffers thru their philanthropic activity. Less revenue comes in, operating costs go up. Oh yeah, and there's the need to maintain the property and do the actual work of preservation. That gets backburnered. Place starts to look shabby and offers less of an experience to visitors. So thru the gate and resturant revenue decreases.

Doubt that it will come to this. Given the historical and present relationship with Bald Peak, I gotta think that the town of M'boro would be in for one helluva fight if they poke that hornet's nest too hard.

From the article, there seems to be a gracious way to address this:

I would like to see the Castle Preservation Society offer taxpayers of Moultonboro free access to the facilities, and discounts on the services offered, as a way to demonstrate good faith towards the community that supports it. I think that's a fair compromise.
The discussion will continue at the Thursday August 4th BoS meeting scheduled for 7pm at Town Hall.

A lot of museums offer free or very deeply-discounted admissions to residents of the town they're in. Keeps things cordial. I don't live or have any real estate in M'boro, so I have nothing to gain other than seeing everybody get along.

The management there is pretty marketing savvy, take PR seriously, and is probably aware of this discusssion. As an area resident and a lover of history and preservation efforts, maybe they'll kindly take my humble comments (actually just a repost of someone else's idears) under advisement.

[fatlazyless]

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...-castle-clouds

"All Walks and Talks are free with grounds pass purchased at the main gate. Participation is limited, to be sure of a spot, arrive early."

So, what's the price, if I want to see this on Friday at 5:30? Anybody know how much this will cost to get in at the main gate?

It looks like it will cost me fifteen dollars to get in at the main gate, looking at www.castleintheclouds.org: Visit the Castle: Visitor Information.


"The Castle in the Clouds is a non-profit business; all donations, and Castle business revenues remaining at the end of an operating year, go toward the maintenance of the property and restoration of the nearly 100 year old Arts and Crafts building."

..................

Today's August 24, 2011 http://www.concordmonitor.com/articl...ch-up-for-sale... is somewhat similar to the situation between The Castle in the Clouds and Town of Moultonborough because it is about the City of Concord trying to deny property tax-exempt status to an existing church www.libertyaog.org/.

The Church lost quite a bit of its' tax exempt status and has now placed the building(s) and land up for sale for $650,000, asking price which includes 26-acres (?) in Concord, which are currently assessed for one million dollars, according to the Concord Monitor. (Not sure if all 26 acres is included?)

Like wow.....this is an incredibly interesting news item, about Concord vs. the Destiny Christian Church, don't you think.....holy smokes! ..

[baja-mama]

We were just there on Sunday. The entrance gate has a sign that shows 15.00 for adults to view the Castle. But also listed is 5.00 for a grounds only pass

[SIKSUKR]

Go in by the bottling plant and pay nothing though you might not be able to join the walks and talks legaly but knowing how frugal and resourcefull you are,I could see you tagging along right behind the group.Hey,bring your loaded broom and fake like your cleaning behind them!

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

5 = employees
$409,119 = Salaries, other compensation, employee benefits (Part IX, column
(A), lines 5-10)

$81,824 = Avg per employee

Deduct for fed tax, FICA, health insurance, state unemployment insurance, and the 81 K is closer to 50 K for the employee to then go out and spread the wealth.