Your take on this...........

acanthus · 02-01-2011, 11:25 AM

In June of 2009, I purchased land, (for the dream view) to build my final home on. Hired a Soil Scientist to deal with shoreline/wetlands issues/plot layout--he recommended another "professional" to rough in the drive/clear build site. Hired him. Paid everyone--got permits--hired a builder--things are going great. End of illusion.
Nighmare scenario begins when the builder contacts the Soil Scientist concerning the septic design. One thing turns into another--long story short--the builder hires a different Soils guy to remedy the conflict. New professional discovers that;
1. Portion of my driveway is on neighbors property. (clear survey markings are present)
2. The Co-op charged me for a pole (which was placed on neighbors property)--charged me for deed easement filing (which they already had since 1980's)
2. Was charged for a shoreline permit I did not need. ( frontage is marshland--shore is 400 feet away--the neighbor was charged also by the same, 1st expert, for an unneeded permit) DES took the fees--don't they know where the shorelines are????
3. New filings with state DES by second Soils guy--receive notice that DES agrees with his corrections!!!!!
Wait a minute, I say. You're Kidding, right? My first 2 hires--that hold themselves out as "professionals" -experts-licensed by the state--scewed up this bad???Doesn't someone owe me money to get this mess corrected? We are talking thousands. Do I need a Lawyer? If so--WHO??????
Thanks for all thoughtful suggestions/opinions--my frustrated/confused state of mind hasn't allowed rational thought.

jmen24 · 02-01-2011, 12:07 PM

Acanthus, sorry you are having to deal with this. Here is a little advise to get you going and to cool you down.

The shoreland permit will come into play even on marshland, but when you say you are 400 feet away, is that the exact number or a WAG. As soon as you start disturbing soil within 250 feet of a body of water, you are within the grasp of the DES.

Now, this situation is quite common and gives the rest of us in the business, heartburn. First thing is you need to have all your documents reviewed by a lawyer (contracts, receipts, change orders, any email, ALL of it). The lawyer will verify what you need and don't, they may not need half of what you bring, but at least you are prepared. Keep your documents seperate for each contractor you worked with.

The way the State of NH works in relation to contractor/customer disagreements about past work is a nest of sticks, but at the same time fairly clearly defined. Basically, you have to allow the original contractor the opportunity to remedy the situation, if they refuse, then you mention that someone else will repair and you will backcharge for the new contractors cost. If they don't pay then you can try to get a lien attached to something.

Sounds like this ship has sailed on the setup above, not to worry. But you will need a lawyer at this point as the original contractor will most likely not be fun or easy to talk to. The court system will need to be involved. Whether it is binded arbitration, small claims or a civil suit, all depends on the dollar amount and how this type of situation is spelled out in the original contractors contract.

The one thing I would highly recommend not doing is calling the original contractor in your current state. It will not solve a thing and you will be even more angry when you hang up the phone. You may even hurt yourself, by either giving a heads up that you found out they are not qualified and giving a chance to get their ducks in a row or they dissolve and lock down all of the assets that you would be looking for.

In that original contract, it should also state that the winner gets the legal fees paid. Just make sure your in great shape, before jumping in. Any oversite on your part could in fact cost you thousands more if you fail to prove your case.

I wish you the best of luck in this.

Don't be suprised if the current contractor you are working with gets uneasy about this whole situation. None of us really enjoy working with a customer that likes to sue. If you trust them and feel they are there to help, tell them that, they will welcome that feeling.

We were the remedy contractor in a very similar situation this summer, between a customer we never worked with before and our main supplier of materials (who also do in house installations of materials they sell). There contract was not fulfilled to the customers satifaction, we were contacted by her lawyer to review the situation and give a professional opinion and were hired to make it right. Everyone walked away happy and the suit never went beyond getting everyone to sit down at a table.

acanthus · 02-01-2011, 12:56 PM

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and, yes, calm my nerves. Much appreciated!!!

winnipiseogee · 02-01-2011, 06:36 PM

Sounds like you got great advice from jmen24 - The only thing I would add is making sure you get a lawyer who helps you resolve the issue instead of promising you the world just to justify their enormous bills without any results.

For what its worth I recommend Pat Wood in Laconia 524-1446. Given my business I deal with lawyers all the time and Pat is one of my favorites - and I know he specializes in this type of issue.

Feel free to PM me if you want anymore back ground on him.

Full disclosure - I'm a client of Pat's but have no business relationships, family relationships with him etc.

winnipiseogee · 02-01-2011, 06:43 PM

One more thing... Sorry about your situation!!! I had a similar problem about 5 years ago and I understand how insanely stressful it is! Best of luck to you!

secondcurve · 02-02-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

Acanthus, sorry you are having to deal with this. Here is a little advise to get you going and to cool you down.

The shoreland permit will come into play even on marshland, but when you say you are 400 feet away, is that the exact number or a WAG. As soon as you start disturbing soil within 250 feet of a body of water, you are within the grasp of the DES.

Now, this situation is quite common and gives the rest of us in the business, heartburn. First thing is you need to have all your documents reviewed by a lawyer (contracts, receipts, change orders, any email, ALL of it). The lawyer will verify what you need and don't, they may not need half of what you bring, but at least you are prepared. Keep your documents seperate for each contractor you worked with.

The way the State of NH works in relation to contractor/customer disagreements about past work is a nest of sticks, but at the same time fairly clearly defined. Basically, you have to allow the original contractor the opportunity to remedy the situation, if they refuse, then you mention that someone else will repair and you will backcharge for the new contractors cost. If they don't pay then you can try to get a lien attached to something.

Sounds like this ship has sailed on the setup above, not to worry. But you will need a lawyer at this point as the original contractor will most likely not be fun or easy to talk to. The court system will need to be involved. Whether it is binded arbitration, small claims or a civil suit, all depends on the dollar amount and how this type of situation is spelled out in the original contractors contract.

The one thing I would highly recommend not doing is calling the original contractor in your current state. It will not solve a thing and you will be even more angry when you hang up the phone. You may even hurt yourself, by either giving a heads up that you found out they are not qualified and giving a chance to get their ducks in a row or they dissolve and lock down all of the assets that you would be looking for.

In that original contract, it should also state that the winner gets the legal fees paid. Just make sure your in great shape, before jumping in. Any oversite on your part could in fact cost you thousands more if you fail to prove your case.

I wish you the best of luck in this.

Don't be suprised if the current contractor you are working with gets uneasy about this whole situation. None of us really enjoy working with a customer that likes to sue. If you trust them and feel they are there to help, tell them that, they will welcome that feeling.

We were the remedy contractor in a very similar situation this summer, between a customer we never worked with before and our main supplier of materials (who also do in house installations of materials they sell). There contract was not fulfilled to the customers satifaction, we were contacted by her lawyer to review the situation and give a professional opinion and were hired to make it right. Everyone walked away happy and the suit never went beyond getting everyone to sit down at a table.

You always provide excellent advice regarding construction/home related issues. I'm sure you have a successful business.

jrc · 02-02-2011, 10:36 AM

One quick word of advice, lawyers are not cheap and you don't always win.

So take an honest look at your actual loses. That is the difference in money out of your pocket between your final cost and what the final cost would have been if everything went right. Don't get hung up in your feelings of being misled, just look at your real cash lost.

Now compare that to money to what a lawyer charges plus your time and effort to fight and win this case, the delays to your progress while you fight and finally the real chance that you will not win.

Don't let anger drive you to throw good money after bad.

Of course if this really big money, sue the pants off them.

Newbiesaukee · 02-02-2011, 01:13 PM

I absolutely agree with JRC.

You really should look at this as strictly a dollars and cents issue. I do, however, believe you can do this only after consulting a competent attorney soyou have a good idea about the dollars and cents.

acanthus · 02-05-2011, 04:26 PM

Thanks to everyone that took the time to share your wisdom/advise/common sense. Can't articulate how much it is appreciated.

02-01-2011, 11:25 AM	#1
acanthus Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 42 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Your take on this........... In June of 2009, I purchased land, (for the dream view) to build my final home on. Hired a Soil Scientist to deal with shoreline/wetlands issues/plot layout--he recommended another "professional" to rough in the drive/clear build site. Hired him. Paid everyone--got permits--hired a builder--things are going great. End of illusion. Nighmare scenario begins when the builder contacts the Soil Scientist concerning the septic design. One thing turns into another--long story short--the builder hires a different Soils guy to remedy the conflict. New professional discovers that; 1. Portion of my driveway is on neighbors property. (clear survey markings are present) 2. The Co-op charged me for a pole (which was placed on neighbors property)--charged me for deed easement filing (which they already had since 1980's) 2. Was charged for a shoreline permit I did not need. ( frontage is marshland--shore is 400 feet away--the neighbor was charged also by the same, 1st expert, for an unneeded permit) DES took the fees--don't they know where the shorelines are???? 3. New filings with state DES by second Soils guy--receive notice that DES agrees with his corrections!!!!! Wait a minute, I say. You're Kidding, right? My first 2 hires--that hold themselves out as "professionals" -experts-licensed by the state--scewed up this bad???Doesn't someone owe me money to get this mess corrected? We are talking thousands. Do I need a Lawyer? If so--WHO?????? Thanks for all thoughtful suggestions/opinions--my frustrated/confused state of mind hasn't allowed rational thought.

02-01-2011, 12:56 PM	#3
acanthus Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 42 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Your take on this......... Thanks so much for taking the time to reply and, yes, calm my nerves. Much appreciated!!!

02-02-2011, 01:13 PM	#8
Newbiesaukee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 931 Thanked 570 Times in 296 Posts	I absolutely agree with JRC. You really should look at this as strictly a dollars and cents issue. I do, however, believe you can do this only after consulting a competent attorney soyou have a good idea about the dollars and cents. __________________ "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."

02-05-2011, 04:26 PM	#9
acanthus Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 42 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Attitude of gratitude Thanks to everyone that took the time to share your wisdom/advise/common sense. Can't articulate how much it is appreciated.

02-01-2011, 12:07 PM	#2
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Acanthus, sorry you are having to deal with this. Here is a little advise to get you going and to cool you down. The shoreland permit will come into play even on marshland, but when you say you are 400 feet away, is that the exact number or a WAG. As soon as you start disturbing soil within 250 feet of a body of water, you are within the grasp of the DES. Now, this situation is quite common and gives the rest of us in the business, heartburn. First thing is you need to have all your documents reviewed by a lawyer (contracts, receipts, change orders, any email, ALL of it). The lawyer will verify what you need and don't, they may not need half of what you bring, but at least you are prepared. Keep your documents seperate for each contractor you worked with. The way the State of NH works in relation to contractor/customer disagreements about past work is a nest of sticks, but at the same time fairly clearly defined. Basically, you have to allow the original contractor the opportunity to remedy the situation, if they refuse, then you mention that someone else will repair and you will backcharge for the new contractors cost. If they don't pay then you can try to get a lien attached to something. Sounds like this ship has sailed on the setup above, not to worry. But you will need a lawyer at this point as the original contractor will most likely not be fun or easy to talk to. The court system will need to be involved. Whether it is binded arbitration, small claims or a civil suit, all depends on the dollar amount and how this type of situation is spelled out in the original contractors contract. The one thing I would highly recommend not doing is calling the original contractor in your current state. It will not solve a thing and you will be even more angry when you hang up the phone. You may even hurt yourself, by either giving a heads up that you found out they are not qualified and giving a chance to get their ducks in a row or they dissolve and lock down all of the assets that you would be looking for. In that original contract, it should also state that the winner gets the legal fees paid. Just make sure your in great shape, before jumping in. Any oversite on your part could in fact cost you thousands more if you fail to prove your case. I wish you the best of luck in this. Don't be suprised if the current contractor you are working with gets uneasy about this whole situation. None of us really enjoy working with a customer that likes to sue. If you trust them and feel they are there to help, tell them that, they will welcome that feeling. We were the remedy contractor in a very similar situation this summer, between a customer we never worked with before and our main supplier of materials (who also do in house installations of materials they sell). There contract was not fulfilled to the customers satifaction, we were contacted by her lawyer to review the situation and give a professional opinion and were hired to make it right. Everyone walked away happy and the suit never went beyond getting everyone to sit down at a table.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jmen24 For This Useful Post:
acanthus (02-01-2011), winnipiseogee (02-02-2011)

02-01-2011, 06:36 PM	#4
winnipiseogee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 297 Thanks: 67 Thanked 152 Times in 79 Posts	Sounds like you got great advice from jmen24 - The only thing I would add is making sure you get a lawyer who helps you resolve the issue instead of promising you the world just to justify their enormous bills without any results. For what its worth I recommend Pat Wood in Laconia 524-1446. Given my business I deal with lawyers all the time and Pat is one of my favorites - and I know he specializes in this type of issue. Feel free to PM me if you want anymore back ground on him. Full disclosure - I'm a client of Pat's but have no business relationships, family relationships with him etc.

The Following User Says Thank You to winnipiseogee For This Useful Post:
acanthus (02-05-2011)

02-01-2011, 06:43 PM	#5
winnipiseogee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 297 Thanks: 67 Thanked 152 Times in 79 Posts	One more thing... Sorry about your situation!!! I had a similar problem about 5 years ago and I understand how insanely stressful it is! Best of luck to you!

02-02-2011, 10:36 AM	#7
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	One quick word of advice, lawyers are not cheap and you don't always win. So take an honest look at your actual loses. That is the difference in money out of your pocket between your final cost and what the final cost would have been if everything went right. Don't get hung up in your feelings of being misled, just look at your real cash lost. Now compare that to money to what a lawyer charges plus your time and effort to fight and win this case, the delays to your progress while you fight and finally the real chance that you will not win. Don't let anger drive you to throw good money after bad. Of course if this really big money, sue the pants off them.