Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough - Page 3

Dave R · 12-04-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

If you walked out on to your porch to find somebody on your privately posted land, peeking in windows, and then that person wouldn't leave when told to, how would you react ? Just asking.

I'd be rather upset, but IMO, one should only take out a pistol when one intends to use it. I don't think trespassing and boorish behavior warrant deadly force, so I would not brandish a pistol unless I though there was some danger.

That said, the penalty in this case is WAY too severe for the crime, I hope he gets out soon.

fatlazyless · 12-05-2010, 07:39 AM

Worst case scenario......July 30 2001, Meredith NH......Robert Whitney, age 58, former city councilor of Concord NH.....was found strangled......by Gary Sampson (age aprox 30 ?)......a handgun would probably have been helpfull for him but who really knows....it's conjecture....what might have happened.....but there's no reason why a can of spray mace or just a billy club....or even a broom handle....... could have been just as helpfull to scare off Gary Sampson.....and then you call the police.

Even if you are totally in the right with the law on using a handgun to defend yourself, you probably still run up some serious attorney bills.

Handguns have too many legal issues that the lesser mace or billy club just does not get into......plus if you show a handgun....could be that the next "Gary Sampson" has a handgun too. That was supposedly a totally random murder by a total stranger for no particular reason such as robbery.

Merrymeeting · 12-05-2010, 10:17 AM

I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about.

If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me.

If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything?

Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there.

Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner.

Yes?

fatlazyless · 12-05-2010, 12:15 PM

....hey, if anyone tries to break into my place in the middle of the night or something....or set's foot onto my 1/4 acre....all's I have to do is show them my Meredith property tax bill, and that will scare the daylights out of them!

Excuuuuuuuse me Mr Burglar....would you mind kindly taking a look-see at this town tax bill.......

.....egaaaaaddd.....that would have sacred off even a Gary Sampson .......

!

Lakesrider · 12-05-2010, 02:47 PM

My thought about all of the gun stuff..

If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead.

The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive.

That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

Dave R · 12-05-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

My thought about all of the gun stuff..

If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead.

The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive.

That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

A chief of police once told me the same thing.

fatlazyless · 12-05-2010, 04:15 PM

www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office.

MarkinNH · 12-05-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office.

Isn't it GREAT !!
There were groups of friends, neighbors, family and even people whom have never met Ward scattered at various intersections, from the Meredith rotary all the way to the junction of Rt. 16 & 25 both Saturday and Sunday. All willing to take time out of their weekend and stand out in the cold because they believe in Ward and they feel there was an injustice done.
This is what I call Community Spirit !

FREE WARD BIRD

RI Swamp Yankee · 12-05-2010, 08:26 PM

With all the commentary in the media, has there been any comments by jurors from the trial? I wonder what they were thinking when they deliberated and if their opinion changed later when they heard more about that "victim".

Knockers · 12-06-2010, 12:54 AM

Harris wandered onto Ward's property looking at neighboring land that was listed for sale on March 27, 2006. But 6 months later after her altercation with private property owners, her residence of 15 years is condemned a few doors down from Jeffery and Kay Bird in Salem,NH She's charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator removing her cars, failing to comply with a search warrant, being held on $10,000 cash bail and complaints with police back to 1998. After reading the newspaper article below i'm finding it awfully hard to believe there's no evidence that Bird's attorney couldn't use. There's got to be more going on between the Ag's office, county/local PD and municipal officers not to adjust an ill placed law before the charge was issued.

Police seize dogs from Salem home; owner charged with assault

The Eagle Tribune Fri Sep 14, 2007, 10:37 PM EDT

SALEM, N.H. — Police removed about 40 dogs yesterday from a Salem trailer where they had been living in squalor.
The owner of the dogs, Christine Harris, 54, of 75 S. Policy St., Lot 61, was charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator and with failing to comply with a search warrant. She is being held on $10,000 cash bail.
The odor of dog feces filled the air outside Harris' blue, vinyl-shingled trailer yesterday. A chorus of yelps could be heard from behind the home.
"I've been here four years, and you can hear it day, night, weekends," said Tina Fairfield, a next-door neighbor. "We've learned to sleep through it. You learn to live with the stench."
The home, cloaked by a row of overgrown bushes, was condemned yesterday by Salem Health Officer Brian Lockhart due to the poor conditions and the number of dogs living there. Around noon, police posted a sign on the front door saying that Harris can't move back in until the home is cleaned.
"It's deplorable. It stinks," said Kelly Demers, Salem's animal control officer, as he carried out the dogs yesterday, one by one.
Demers said he went to Harris' home yesterday around 9 a.m. with a search warrant that allowed him to inspect the home and count how many dogs she had on her property.
"She wouldn't come to the door," he said. "It just so happened that a tow truck driver came to take away a couple of her cars, so then she came out."
Angered by their orders to remove two unregistered cars on the property, Harris then allegedly approached one of the two truck operators and shoved him. Police arrived and charged her with simple assault and refusing to comply with Demers' warrant. She has not been charged with animal cruelty.
Police had already charged Harris on Aug. 18 with her dogs being a public nuisance and with having several dogs without licensing them. Demers had rounded up four of them that day that were running loose outside her trailer, according to Deputy police Chief William Ganley.
"She quite possibly could be running a breeding kennel," Ganley said.
The dogs collected yesterday included pugs, Boston terriers, miniature pinschers, three Rottweilers, an English bulldog and mixed breeds. At least twice, Demers removed clear, plastic tubs full of puppies. One had a small dog with three smaller pups nursing.
This isn't the first time Harris has caught the attention of police and neighbors.
Complaints made to police date back to 1998. In 2002, she was charged with keeping more than five dogs in an area not zoned for a kennel and building an addition to her home without obtaining proper town permits. A judge had ordered the addition — which held nearly 40 dogs — to be torn down, but the case was ultimately dropped because she began complying with town regulations, Ganley said.
"Everybody knows you have yapping dogs over there going all night long," said Larry Taylor, a neighbor. "It's brought down the resale value of our property."
"I wanted to go to Florida," he said. "My wife said, 'We can't go. We'll get nothing for our property.'"
Neighbors said the enforcement brought by town officials comes at a time when the trailer park's owner, Martin Taylor, has made efforts to improve the park. Those improvements include removing unregistered cars.
Currently, Taylor is fighting to evict Harris from the property in a case that is now being decided by the state Supreme Court.
Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home.
"A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch.
Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules."
Ganley said both neighbors and police have praised Demers for dealing with Harris' case.
"He's been working on this for a very long time," Ganley said. "He really loves and cares for those animals."
Police said yesterday that if Harris posts bail, she could be allowed back into the home to clean up the property, but she can't live there.
The dogs and puppies will likely be held at local animal shelters. It's uncertain if Harris will be able to get them back at some point

Lakesrider · 12-06-2010, 07:34 AM

I edited my comment due to my rational not being so good until I have had my coffee......

I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm.
I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.
Hopefully I will have the presence of mind to grab my video recorder and use that at the same time I am dialing 911.

Yes it will cost money....If I shoot.....
Hopefully I will never have to worry about any of this.

One thing I will not do is wave my gun around at any time......

VitaBene · 12-06-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.

There is nothing like the sound a Remington 870 (or any other pump action shotgun) having a round chambered!

Yosemite Sam · 12-06-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

There is nothing like the sound a Remington 870 (or any other pump action shotgun) having a round chambered!

And there is nothing like the visual effects of this little fella standing beside you when someone comes onto your property with bad intentions:

brk-lnt · 12-06-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

And there is nothing like the visual effects of this little fella standing beside you when someone comes onto your property with bad intentions:

I've always kept my dogs locked up whenever I've actually had to investigate or confront any random visitors on our property. They're not trained to act as attack or defense dogs, and so the most they would likely do is get in the way, cause a liability, or block my shot. Or worse yet, get harmed or killed by someone who felt threatened by them in some way.

There has been a lot of hype and speculation and tough talk in this thread (not aiming this comment specifically at you). I think that more people need to research ACTUAL useful means of self-defense, including use of weapons, and think about realistic scenarios when you would be justified in using some kind of force.

Dogs, broomsticks, pepper spray, and such are not going to offer a reliable defense. Your first weapon is your mind, your next is your sidearm. Both should be in good working order. If not, stay in the house and keep 911 on speed-dial and hope it's a slow night.

fatlazyless · 12-06-2010, 05:44 PM

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

VitaBene · 12-06-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

FLL, I sat across from a table from Gary Lee Sampson during jury selection for his sentencing trial. I was not allowed to sit on the jury based on some of the answers I gave to questions from his attorney. I did get to address him and I can tell you he lacked soul (I can't describe his eyes any better than this). He would have laughed at your mace or broomstick.

Are home invasions common in NH? No. Can it happen? Certainly and I would prefer to be prepared to defend my family.

Pineedles · 12-06-2010, 09:04 PM

I live in the town next to where Dr. William Petit lost his wife and two daughters to savages. I see his brother a couple of days a week. My wife was Dr. Petit's paitent. He stated at the sentencing hearing that he almost committed suicide during this long ordeal. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! NO TOWN IS SAFE! NO HOME IS SAFE! Dr. Petit had a baseball bat to defend himself. The cowards beat him with it. DO NOT LET ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT A GUN IS UNSAFE TO USE TO PROTECT YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! Take a NRA course to learn how to use the only thing that will protect you and your family when the savages knock down your door.

MarkinNH · 12-07-2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

You keep living in you liberal minded, big brother will take care of me and protect me world. I will live in mine where I will take care of myself if absolutely necessary. Your welcome to knock on my door late at night to borrow a phone because your car broke down. But don't think for a second that I won't be armed when I answer the door. You may not see it and I hopefully won't have a reason to divulge that I have it, but IT WILL BE THERE !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

You mean the baseball bat didn't scare the mean people away?

Nah - instead they beat him close to death, kidnapped, raped, and sodomized his wife and young daughters - then killed them by setting them on fire.

Of course Cheshire is kinda like a Meredith (but possibly wealthier?) bad things usually dont happen there.

Maybe he should have tried waving a broomstick at them.

Maybe he should have had enough sense to borrow fatlazyless's broomstick that he seems so fond off. After all Meredith is so safe he shouldn't need a self defense weapon of any kind.
Of course he does still have his tax bill. ( I rather liked that one by the way, it did make me chuckle

) Death by tax's, as they say.

fatlazyless · 12-07-2010, 08:52 AM

How safe is it around here? Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own choice for personal protection, be it a .45 semi pistol or a kitchen broom. Me, I think I'll stick with the kitchen broom, or maybe a tennis racquet, and just use it to wave off any would be bad guys, because using a handgun in most cases just escalates a situation. Do not mean to be nasty here or be a jerk, but come on, if Ward had thought to use a broom, would he now be a long term guest down at the gray-bar hotel?

Going back to 1992, I've had a total of one time at my cottage on Meredith Neck when I felt a little threatened by an outsider. It was summer, July or August, maybe five years ago, and I was dressed like a house painter because I was outside painting the cottage. A large young white male, maybe 22-years, 225-lb, 6' with an extremely aggressive attitude and spoken language walks around the house, sees me, and he says that he is selling magazine subscriptions, and had some real good magazine deals. So, I had been cleaning a paint brush or something, and I immediately say " you know you need to have a police permit from the Meredith Police to sell magazines, door to door." He says "yes, I have a permit and shows me one from Gilford, but not Meredith." All things considered at that time, I quickly decided not to bring that up, and just told him that I was just the painter, didn't want any magazines, and that the home owner was not home.......and he left. But boy, I tell you, from his demeanor, I would not have wanted to let him inside the house.....no way.

It is simply much better to scare them off and call the police than to confront with a gun. You are not the police, and the legal system gives the police the benefit of any doubts on their enforcement practice. Call me a chicken if you want, but I would just rather avoid a confrontation, and just go play some tennis, than to spend a lot of time w/ the legal system. Better to shoot an ace on the tennis court than to shoot a .45 in personal defense. As soon as you shoot just one bullet in self-defense, either as a warning shot, or trying to hit someone, it probably opens up a big can of trouble. Go hide under the crawlspace or something, and let the police be the neighborhood protectors.

Yosemite Sam · 12-07-2010, 10:38 AM

What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions?

This is what we should be talking about and not what happened when some psychotic individuals broke into someone’s house and……..

You are justified in using lethal force against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person.

If you have never been attacked, it is natural to wonder how you would react, and whether you would be able to judge the situation properly. But when reality happens to you, you are very likely to find that you have no trouble at all knowing that you are in immediate and unavoidable danger. What you do then will depend on how you have trained yourself (mentally as well as physically) to react.

brk-lnt · 12-07-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions?

We'll never know for sure unless Ward himself decides to log on here and offer his viewpoint.

My personal interpretation is that he *didn't* see any danger when she came on his property initially. The perceived danger seems to have arisen from when she didn't leave when first asked and instead chose to confront and challenge him on his own property.

We also don't have conclusive evidence of how exactly the firearm was made visible.

The REAL real debate is, IMO, to what degree should a homeowner be allowed to confront and via various means potentially intimidate a clear trespasser who shows no intentions of leaving a property they are not permitted on.

Yosemite Sam · 12-07-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The REAL real debate is, IMO, to what degree should a homeowner be allowed to confront and via various means potentially intimidate a clear trespasser who shows no intentions of leaving a property they are not permitted on.

In Ward Bird's case I think it would have been better for him to pick up a phone and call the police before even talking to her if she was trespassing.

That would be my first line of defense against an overweight 50 year old women.

I think I would be a little embarrassed that I had to call the police because she was a threat to me though.

Gearhead · 12-07-2010, 12:44 PM

I wonder how many Americans would open their front door to someone (anyone) in a uniform. It may not be the Maytag man.

Once that door begins to open, you could be in big trouble, because gun or no gun, he can knock you off your feet with the door and be on you before you realize what happened. First be sure your door's got a stout chain or a peephole so you can ID your caller. Second, when in doubt, don't invite him in. If he wants in, he'll get in. In the meantime get on the phone and prepare for fight (or surrender) or flight, whichever you're more comfortable with.

Yosemite Sam · 12-07-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

Calling 911 is ALWAYS the proper thing to do...if you are able to.

Not only does it get the police/ambulance on their way (20+mins to my house) but it says a lot later on, if need be.

You dont even have to talk if are afraid to give up your location (hiding in your bedroom, armed etc) just dial it and leave it off the hook. They will respond.

Angry people dont usually think to call 911 first, scared people do. Prosecutors know this.

Its all in everyones rehearsed plan, right?....:-)

I don't even think a 911 call was necessary in Bird's case. This wasn't a scared emergency situation to get this lady off his land......this was a clear angry situation.

beaner · 12-07-2010, 01:10 PM

Unfortunately, any weapon - including a gun - can be turned against you. Our laptop has fingerprint recognition log-on technology. As soon as similar technology is available & reliable on a firearm so that only I can fire it, I will buy one.

As for Mr. Bird, he had one of the most experienced criminal defense attorneys in the state. By not accepting the plea offer, he gambled, and lost. He should be grateful that he is being allowed to serve his sentence in the Carroll County HOC instead of the NH State Prison.

Anyone who doesn't like the outcome of this case shouldn't fault the court system. The legislature passed the law that requires a minimum mandatory sentence of 3 - 6 years for committing a felony with a gun, when the gun is an element of the crime charged. In doing so, they eliminated any possibility of judicial discretion.

Meanwhile, the only way he can get his sentence vacated is through a pardon, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for that to happen.

VtSteve · 12-07-2010, 01:24 PM

Some excellent points all.

I think the overall story gets clouded by personal feelings. The intruder has a history of being rather whacked. Bird seems to be well-liked, and has his own stuff going on. Nothing I've read really seems to explain his behavior. Medication? Something she said we don't know about? I think he demonstrated poor judgment, over-reacted, and in a dangerous way. But the punishment is overboard IMO, given both the intruder herself, and most of the testimony and descriptions given.

As for the guns? Everyone would like to think that in a home invasion scenario, they'd go get their gun, find the hidden ammunition in a locked cabinet or safe, load the gun, then either scare off the intruder(s) or kill them. If someone had made it into your bedroom, you'd have about a half-second to do that. Sometimes you get lucky, wake up after hearing things, and have enough time to deal with everything else. (probably why I never fix squeaky stairs)

I'm sure every family man has thought about this type of incident while kissing the kids goodnight, staying awake just a few minutes pondering it, maybe even after waking up because of some little noise. I'll bet the majority of people have thought about what they'd do. And I'd bet even further that the vast majority of people would forget their plans after fear sets in.

But reading about horrific invasions, whether it be the Cheshire CT incident, or the savage and random attacks on the Dartmouth Professor and his wife that were savagely killed, or the recent trial of the guy who used a machete in a home invasion. Here's a recent one as well, involving handguns
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=11577171

There are plenty of home invasions involving violence right in the northern NE area. For all of these cases, I support the death penalty, whether it's administered by the owner of the house, or the Court system. But then we get into the problematic storage of weapons, separate area for ammo, etc... It's probably for those reasons I've never owned a gun.

fatlazyless · 12-08-2010, 08:20 AM

"He says there are 400 cords of wood around the jail and he'd love to be out there splitting the wood instead of sitting in his cell." quote from today's Union Leader Dec 8

If that doesn't make you feel sad thinking about his situation, then you should read it again and think on that quote. I know next to nothing about the everyday life of a prisoner being held at the Carroll County Jail over in Ossipee NH, but would take a good guess that it must be extremely boring, and boredom can be very very mentally challenging. (Hey, just look at me!) Does the jail have a tennis court? Probably not!

Someone once said that the only thing that prisoners can expect to learn in most US prisons is "how to be a good prisoner." That means how to stay quiet, slow down, and not get in trouble with the prison rules and just do your time......period!

Maybe the Carroll County Jail has its' own website? Will go take a look-see on that.

www.sheriff.carrollcountynh.net

http://www.nhpr.org/node/9038

sa meredith · 12-08-2010, 10:49 AM

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

fatlazyless · 12-08-2010, 12:06 PM

For home use security it would seem that a small .38 revolver would be perfectly adequate. Remember the 1960's tv show DRAGNET, starring Jack Webb as Sergeant Joe Friday, Badge 714, on the L.A.P.D., working the night shift. Sergeant Joe Friday, and his partner's character played by Harry Morgan. I cannot recall Harry Morgan's character's name?

Anyway, both these police officers had these small little.38 revolvers with short barrels, and it worked good for them in the great big city of Los Angeles, so a handgun like that should be perfectly good for the lakes region. Plus, they are probably much less expensive, and much safer by design than a semi. because it is LESS complicated. When loaded with bullets, a person who is looking at the gun barrel pointed at him actually gets to see the dull lead bullets inside the revolver sectional chambers, unlike a semi, plus some very potent rounds are made for a .38.

Drop a semi, cocked & locked, onto the floor, and will it shoot off....maybe? Do the same with a revolver, and the only way a modern double-action revolver will shoot off is by depressing on the trigger. The gun store in Meredith next to Town Hall probably has them used for a hundred dollars or so?

Our newly elected state senator, Jeannie Forester was using her bright pink Glock as an election campaign vote collecting tool in October 2010, so that says something about people's attitudes on handguns, locally.

Pineedles · 12-08-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

It might also be interesting to see how many home invasions were stopped because the homeowner had a gun. If you don't want a gun in your house, then don't buy one. If I want a gun in my house, don't hinder my right to own one.

fatlazyless · 12-08-2010, 01:31 PM

Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy.

He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........

....That was no picnic.

RailroadJoe · 12-08-2010, 02:01 PM

FLL the Devil's advocate.

Pineedles · 12-08-2010, 02:05 PM

More like the Devil's jester.

But back on topic, and speaking of the NRA...

I certainly hope the NRA is assisting Ward Bird. Sounds like a good case for their efforts. If you are a NRA member, drop a note to them and ask what they are doing to help.

MarkinNH · 12-08-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

A compact .38 is NOT what you want for home protection. That gun is for concealed carry (hence detectives used it) Its not very accurate and its not very easy to shoot well.

A newbie would be wise considering a 12ga shotgun for home protection - or if safe storage was an issue and really wanted a handgun, there are far better choices than a small .38 special.

BTW - Your theories about semi-vs-revolver are so wacky its not worth even attempting to get them straight on a web forum....
If you ever decide to take the plunge and protect yourself, please take some state recognized and endorsed courses first!

I was thinking the same thing but quickly decided it was not worth bringing up.

brk-lnt · 12-08-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

Can't tell fi you're trolling or serious.

It might be next to the statistic mentioning fires started in homes that have no sources of ignition or stats on fall-down-a-flight-of-stairs cases in homes with no stairs.

Belmont Resident · 12-08-2010, 08:58 PM

You might want to freshen up on gun laws.
Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home.
Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer.
Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder.
You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for.
This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break.
While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

Yosemite Sam · 12-09-2010, 05:39 AM

Ward Bird sure does have a lot of support from local businesses.
These photos are in today's edition of THE MEREDITH NEWS :

MarkinNH · 12-09-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

You might want to freshen up on gun laws.
Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home.
Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer.
Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder.
You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for.
This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break.
While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

How many "gun safety class's" have you taken ?

Pineedles · 12-09-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Can't tell fi you're trolling or serious.

It might be next to the statistic mentioning fires started in homes that have no sources of ignition or stats on fall-down-a-flight-of-stairs cases in homes with no stairs.

sa is a friend of mine who definitely is not trolling. I think he was trying to be funny. Although sa and I don't agree on hunting and probably gun ownership as a personal choice. I am sure he wouldn't hinder my right to own. I didn't see the humor, until you mentioned the houses with no stairs.

rander7823 · 12-09-2010, 03:56 PM

Tried to read through this entire thread. But doesn't he have an opportunity to appeal the decision?

wuwu · 12-09-2010, 05:45 PM

here is a interesting link
http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/u...ird_Motion.pdf
notice how the crazy lady cannot recognize the defendant. This sounds like a witch hunt!

Newbiesaukee · 12-09-2010, 10:14 PM

I did read through the link. Except for the fact that there was a previous mistrial, nothing really new. It is true that the defense counsel made an issue of the woman not being able to identify the defendant, this really did seem to be a legal ploy and did not really carry any weight. A lot of this stuff seems to be procedural that only attorneys can really follow.

I may not be correct on this but it seems that this document is from before the trial that convicted him.

I really don't have a horse in this race, but I don't think much will be settled in the Forum. But that doesn't mean I don't read every word.

fatlazyless · 12-10-2010, 08:05 PM

Good Man - Bad Law, Free Ward Bird; along with one or two other home made signs, created in a style similar to the Burma-Shave roadside signs of the 1930's where you see a number of small signs which create a message as they get pieced together and read in one sentence as one drives down the road have been placed along the Moulton Farm field alongside Route 25 in Meredith.

Over on Route 104 in Meredith not far from Lake Wicwas, there's about two large painted plywood signs held up by 2x4's promoting freewardbird.org
.................

If I were his defense attorney I would have brought forward the premise that he had recently had a medical operation and was in a recovery mode. It is not unusual for people to be stressed when undergoing a recuperation and to react with more anger than ordinary and to overreact due to recuperation grumpiness. Asking a judge to take that into consideration seems like a reasonable request?

Yosemite Sam · 12-10-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Good Man - Bad Law, Free Ward Bird; along with one or two other home made signs, created in a style similar to the Burma-Shave roadside signs of the 1930's where you see a number of small signs which create a message as they get pieced together and read in one sentence as one drives down the road have been placed along the Moulton Farm field alongside Route 25 in Meredith.

Over on Route 104 in Meredith not far from Lake Wicwas, there's about two large painted plywood signs held up by 2x4's promoting freewardbird.org
.................

If I were his defense attorney I would have brought forward the premise that he had recently had a medical operation and was in a recovery mode. It is not unusual for people to be stressed when undergoing a recuperation and to react with more anger than ordinary and to overreact due to recuperation grumpiness. Asking a judge to take that into consideration seems like a reasonable request?

wifi · 12-11-2010, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

FLL,
In one of the below trial documents that www.freewardbird.org posted on there website they talk about Bird’s operation. Spend some time reading these documents about the trial and maybe it might help you.

He will just go off on some other tangent.

secondcurve · 12-11-2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy.

He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........

....That was no picnic.

FLL what were you doing with $850 of cash in 1979? Were you a drug dealer? That could explain some things!

fatlazyless · 12-11-2010, 08:11 AM

No, I used to own a small Boston retail hardware store w/ Kyanize Paint,paint sundries, plumbing, electrical, hardware, fasteners, tools, housewares, and a big locksmith & key dept. After that event, I changed the old cash-in-the-register m.o. Except for a daily cup of coffee or two, I am 100% prescription drug free, and thank-you for asking!

tis · 12-11-2010, 08:13 AM

I loved Kyanize paint! Too bad they went out of business.

JDeere · 12-11-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm.
I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.
.

Great harm or threat? You only get to shoot in NH if you are in fear for your life. If you are 6 foot tall and a 5 foot women who has come into your home illegally comes at you with pocket knife and you shoot her you will be arrested and charged. You cannot reasonble argue that that small women even with her 6 inch knife was not something you could have reasonble protected yourself from WITHOUT lethal force.

fatlazyless · 12-11-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I loved Kyanize paint! Too bad they went out of business.

Kyanize started out in 1899 as the Boston Paint Co, and then sometime in the late 1940's or something, they changed the name to Kyanize for a reason unknown. It was made in Everett on Second St and was in biz from 1899 to about 1990 when it got sold for a big price. And the new owners, Gulf States Paint, killed the brand and just dropped the name all together after a couple years in the early 1990's. KYANIZE PAINT.........r.i.p!

Now, back to getting Ward Bird out of the slammer over in Ossipee?

sa meredith · 12-11-2010, 09:36 AM

Quite the thread.
Response to earlier post...was not trolling. And think anyone who wants to own a gun, absolutely should be able to (although I am not a fan of a gun in a home). Just as I believe, someone should be able to light up a ciggerette, whereever they dam well please, as long as they are outside. (and I have never been a smoker).
My point was simply that with no guns in a home, you will have no accident. Furthermore, with regard to the question about how many homebreaks were stopped...I would guess that the number of accidental home shootings, FAR OUTWEIGHS, the number of home invasions that are prevented. Just a guess.
I don't think guns mix with homes that have children/ curious teenagers/ etc.. My opinion. You don't need to explain to me about proper education, and safety measures...I get it, and know I am in the minority. So save the speach. It's just my opinion.
With regard to support for Bird....HOLY COW!!!
For anyone who is reading from afar... you would not believe what the town looks like.I went up to visit some friends who live year round on Long Island, last week. And, from the time you take a right at Murphy's Irving, it's a non-stop line of signs in people's yards. They are everywhere. Also saw on the back window of several pick up trucks "FREE BIRD" in block letters. The support is overwhelming. I still cannot believe a judge cannot look into this woman's history, realize she has issues, and no ability to enter into a real estate transaction...and conclude she went there with an agenda. She went to cause trouble. Just my thoughts...
Is it ice out yet?????

MarkinNH · 12-11-2010, 09:45 AM

I found this interesting and educational to read and will confess that I didn't read it all (yet)
I suspect that some others will find it interesting and educational as well.
627.4 and 627.7 are particularly pertinent to the discussion. You might find it easier to go to the actual web page and read it there.
This makes for an incredibly long post. I will leave it up for now but if anybody objects to it's size I will be happy to edit the post and just leave the link.

TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 627
JUSTIFICATION

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...27/627-mrg.htm

sa meredith · 12-11-2010, 09:56 AM

...now that's a post. A bit excessive....no????

MarkinNH · 12-11-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa meredith

...now that's a post. A bit excessive....no????

I will take that as an objection and have edited the original post as I mentioned I would.

Pineedles · 12-11-2010, 07:14 PM

Title all messages PARDON BIRD

I go to Foxwoods occasionally to gamble. I do not gamble with my life or my family's life, so statistics are of no matter to me as to what the precentage of home accidents versus stopping an intruder are. I can find out as well as anyone what the percentage is, but it is of no concern. I know if I armed, and I am trained, I can prevent an intruder from harming my family more times than they can injure us.

One can argue whether Ward felt threatened or not. It is a mute point, because only he can tell you. I am of the opinion that as the homeowner he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Pardon him and let him go back to his family!

Slickcraft · 12-17-2010, 04:47 PM

From today's WMUR web site. Looks like the list of signers would make a good list of Reps to vote for.

Quote:

Speaker Of House To Meet With Lynch To Hand Over Petition

CONCORD, N.H. -- The speaker of the House is expected to give the governor a petition Friday seeking a pardon for a man convicted for making threats.

Speaker William O'Brien planned to meet with Gov. John Lynch at about 2 p.m. O'Brien said the petition calling for a pardon for Ward Bird was signed by more than 100 members of the House.

Bird was sentenced to three to six years in prison after he was convicted of threatening a woman on his property by waving a gun at her. Bird's supporters have called the conviction and sentence unjust, saying Bird had the right to protect his property from a trespasser.

Bird's wife, Virginia, said she remained doubtful that her husband would be home by Christmas.

gokart-mozart · 12-17-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about.

If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me.

If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything?

Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there.

Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner.

Yes?

He made a mistake, one that no handgunner should make. I imagine he was pissed off and wanted to make an impression. This is now legal in NH (as of 1/1/11) but it wasn't legal when he did it.

He should pay a $100 fine. 3 years in the slammer is a travesty. I, too, hope he's home soon.

Colby · 12-17-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gokart-mozart

He made a mistake, one that no handgunner should make. I imagine he was pissed off and wanted to make an impression. This is now legal in NH (as of 1/1/11) but it wasn't legal when he did it.

He should pay a $100 fine. 3 years in the slammer is a travesty. I, too, hope he's home soon.

I am incensed by this example of so called justice. There are so many really bad people who are guilty of something and get no jail time at all. People who have hurt others or done dastardly deeds walk free.

This man, Ward Bird, has hurt no one. He was on his own land. He does not deserve such a life altering consequence. This is just not right.

He should not have a criminal record or spend any time behind bars.

fatlazyless · 12-18-2010, 03:07 AM

I agree that Ward Bird should be getting some type of community service sentence to be determined by a judge who knows about alternative sentencing as opposed to doing three to six years in prison/jail. Put Ward to work with an electric sander and a gallon of tile red floor paint and have him refinish the Moultonborough library floor and staircase that goes down to the basement. Follow that up by painting the basement walls a warm friendly shade of medium yellow. If he does a good job working down in the basement, then have him start refinishing the bookshelves upstairs with some satin finish polyurethane, the expensive stuff, or something!

Sometimes people just get annoyed and go wave a handgun around as a power gesture when they should be keeping it holstered and out of sight. It happens?

I continue to say that his irritability factor could easily have been influenced by his medical operation recovery at the time of the incident as that tends to make people a little cranky, sometimes.

Instead of sticking to his guns and maintaining his determination and taking his case to the NH Supremes, maybe he would have been better off just agreeing to settle for less legal success by accepting the offered plea bargain?

As an alternative to sitting around a jail and not doing much except reading and watching tv, it could well be that he would welcome the opportunity to scrape, sand, and paint some of the inside walls and surfaces at the Carroll County Jail?

www.carrollcountynh.net

Ok, excuse me while I run for the bomb shelter, before you all start hurling the proverbial mud and rocks at me!

Yosemite Sam · 12-18-2010, 06:28 AM

Good article on the front page of todays LDS that talks about the petition to free Ward Bird.

“At the request of the newly elected Speaker of the N.H. House William O’Brien, Gov. John Lynch yesterday met with him and a small delegation of legislators to receive a petition supporting a pardon for Ward Bird.

The petition, signed by about 100 representatives from both parties, asks that Lynch “take the necessary steps” to release Bird from the Carroll County Jail before Christmas.
“It is well known and understood that if this request is acted upon it would represent a very rare circumstance for a convicted felon in this state,” wrote O’Brien.”

Yosemite Sam · 12-18-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

Seems pretty clear the guy broke the law, and is paying the price for it. Where it sounds like this really went wrong is possibly what he admitted to and how poorly his attorney handled it. I think the law was pretty clear.

As a longtime gun owner I dont think he should be given a pass for anything. You dont wave pistols at people in anger. This is the type of thing that results in a few shootings that result in absurd gun laws like NJ/NY impose. It affects all of us law abiding people who want to enjoy their rights. Should you sit in jail for years? NO!!...but you shouldn't own any guns. I suspect any others he owned have been taken. Losing that right and some anger management/community service seems safe and fair and punishment enough.

People make mistakes, it could have been far worse. The sad part is how quickly you can railroad yourself by not abiding to the golden rule - Dont say a word to anyone. Nobody is out to protect the gun owner. Nobody is on your side.

The right to remain silent is as important as the right to bear arms! With a closed mouth and representation with a brain this would not have happened.

Ward Bird did not admit anything and his attorney did everything he was supposed to do. For some reason the jurors believed her and not him.

Please go HERE and read the "Trial Documents" that are posted there and you will see that Ward did not say he waved or pointed a gun at her.

MarkinNH · 12-18-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

Seems pretty clear the guy broke the law, and is paying the price for it. Where it sounds like this really went wrong is possibly what he admitted to and how poorly his attorney handled it. I think the law was pretty clear.

As a longtime gun owner I dont think he should be given a pass for anything. You dont wave pistols at people in anger. This is the type of thing that results in a few shootings that result in absurd gun laws like NJ/NY impose. It affects all of us law abiding people who want to enjoy their rights. Should you sit in jail for years? NO!!...but you shouldn't own any guns. I suspect any others he owned have been taken. Losing that right and some anger management/community service seems safe and fair and punishment enough.

People make mistakes, it could have been far worse. The sad part is how quickly you can railroad yourself by not abiding to the golden rule - Dont say a word to anyone. Nobody is out to protect the gun owner. Nobody is on your side.

The right to remain silent is as important as the right to bear arms! With a closed mouth and representation with a brain this would not have happened.

Have you even bothered to read ANY of the court transcripts ??
There is NO PROOF or WITNESS'S that back up or support the claim that he EVER WAVED A GUN at Anybody !! Only the "say so" of the woman !
I to have been an owner of firearms since I was a boy and have actively carried concealed for the last 30+ years. Now I am no Einstein, but there is a huge difference in taking a handgun out of it's holster to check it's safety and waving it in somebody's face

fatlazyless · 12-18-2010, 09:53 AM

Here's what should probably be considered an unconfirmed source from the email comments in today's Union Leader.

"Let's keep in mind that this is not the first time Mr. Bird has been in trouble with the law for misuse of a weapon. In 2002, he was fined for some mischief with a gun. His wife is sure he made an honest mistake."

Chris K, Strafford NH

Yosemite Sam · 12-18-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's what should probably be considered an unconfirmed source from the email comments in today's Union Leader.

"Let's keep in mind that this is not the first time Mr. Bird has been in trouble with the law for misuse of a weapon. In 2002, he was fined for some mischief with a gun. His wife is sure he made an honest mistake."

Chris K, Strafford NH

I really like you FLL....I really do....I think most of your posts are funny and you seem to make comments as you see them, be it right or wrong in other peoples eyes.

But when you post something that is either a comment from a news source article or from an unconfirmed email comment, then it bothers me and I'm sure it bothers other forum members even more.

Now go to McDonalds and get a Happy Meal so their stock will go up a little.

Just my 2 cents!

Pineedles · 12-18-2010, 11:37 AM

I am so thankful to the Legislators that signed the petition and met with Governor Lynch. I pray for his pardon and release.

Newbiesaukee · 12-18-2010, 01:28 PM

This is WMUR re: previous gun problems:

"Ward's prison sentence for criminal threatening with his gun on his own property isn't the first time he's come up against law enforcement.

In 2002, he was fined for 'unauthorized use of firearms' for being in a 'compact part of Moultonborough' and 'discharging a pistol ... without written permission of the chief of police.'

Bird paid a $480 fine. His wife, Virginia, said it was an accident while Bird was target practicing."

I guess one could take the position that this is irrrelevant to the present episode; but then to be consistent, the women's past history is just as irrelevant to the present episode.
I don't know Ward Bird, but just trying to point out the slippery slope of wanting all past actions to be admissable in court. If I did not have all the 'facts' as presented on the Forum, I might just think this guy is pretty irresponsible if he had two run-ins with the law regarding firearms.

katiesmom · 12-18-2010, 05:17 PM

I am shaking my head reading this story and cannot believe it to be true!! A whacked out women comes on your property peering into your windows and is belligerent when you ask her to leave and HE gets time in jail?? What a bunch of buffoons in the NH justice system from bottom to top!! A complete embarassment!! I thought Florida had a bunch of morons but this completely tops it!!

Yosemite Sam · 12-18-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

This is WMUR re: previous gun problems:

"Ward's prison sentence for criminal threatening with his gun on his own property isn't the first time he's come up against law enforcement.

In 2002, he was fined for 'unauthorized use of firearms' for being in a 'compact part of Moultonborough' and 'discharging a pistol ... without written permission of the chief of police.'

Bird paid a $480 fine. His wife, Virginia, said it was an accident while Bird was target practicing."

I guess one could take the position that this is irrrelevant to the present episode; but then to be consistent, the women's past history is just as irrelevant to the present episode.
I don't know Ward Bird, but just trying to point out the slippery slope of wanting all past actions to be admissable in court. If I did not have all the 'facts' as presented on the Forum, I might just think this guy is pretty irresponsible if he had two run-ins with the law regarding firearms.

Thanks Newbiesaukee…..but I think that if the trial would have let both sides bring up the past of the victim and the accused, we all know who would have been the winner and loser in that deal.

Yosemite Sam · 12-18-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side

No there isn't....and this case proves that.

Sorry - you wont ever find a firearm instructor/trainer/etc that would ever testify that a gun should be removed from a holster during a confrontation to "check the safety is on"

Not buying it for a second, and sounds like nobody else did. He likely fully admitted he took that loaded gun out and held it in his hand. WHY? to check the safety? C'mon...

Tempers and firearms dont mix. That gun never comes out of its holster during a confrontation unless deadly force MAY be necessary. Did he call 911? did he retreat to a safe area? Was she armed? (with anything?) Was it even a surprise that she was there? (he was told she was coming?) This is not a hard case folks. Unfortunate - yes...but not hard by the law.

And why do people keep bringing up this nutty womans past? I thought we lived in the USA here? Be as nutty as you want, but if someone pulls a loaded gun on an unarmed person why should your nutty past matter? Neither persons past is on trial here, and never will be. (Thank God)

From the sounds of it he seems like a nice guy, and she sounds like a f'n wackjob...but thats not the point, is it?

I truly hope (and highly doubt) his sentence gets majorly reduced here. Its not a fair sentence. As a Life Member of the NRA and firearm enthusiast I also hope Mr Bird never owns a firearm again.

I’m sure you are a hero in many people’s eyes as far as knowing how to handle a firearm…however…if you read the Trial Documents Ward Bird did not admit to having a gun in his hand while talking to the victim.

I was a doubter in the beginning of this thread but after reading the Trial Documents I have changed my mind.

Resident 2B · 12-19-2010, 01:15 AM

I just spent more than 10 hours reading and re-reading the entire transcript of State v Ward Bird. I encourage everyone with an interest or an opinion in this matter to do the same, so that they understand what went on in the courtroom.

For all the members of this jury to believe a person who was trespassing, who had significant differences between what she testified under oath and the written statements she made within a day of the incident, and find the defendant and property owner, Ward Bird, guilty is beyond my ability to comprehend.

In addition, on the WMUR web site is a recorded interview of Ward and he clearly says he did not do what he was accused of doing. Here is a link to that interview: http://www.wmur.com/news/26173059/detail.html

After doing this reading and listening to Ward's statement, I have decided to start making contributions to the cause. Thanks to YS, there is a link to the Free Ward Bird web site where you can read the transcript and also donate to a fund that will help Ward and his family. Here is that link: http://freewardbird.org/

Thanks to all the legislators for getting the petition going and I pray that the Governor and his staff do the right thing and parton Ward, and do it quickly please. This wrong has to be addressed. It is totally unfair to Ward, his wife and their childern.

R2B

RailroadJoe · 12-19-2010, 08:54 AM

Does anybody know any of the jurors that were on the case? Would make for good reading. I honestly think our justice system needs a major overhaul. The statement to the jury by the judge is quite bit of legal mumbo jumbo. Really need people with logic and common sense, not run of the mill people passing lots of laws.

SAMIAM · 12-20-2010, 03:47 PM

http://www.grassshoppingminpins.net/page34
This is the lady who's word the MPD and the county attorney took over a local scout leader, church deacon, farmer who has lived most of his life in this community.

RailroadJoe · 12-20-2010, 05:08 PM

And of course, they can not allow that to appear in court. Stupid justice. The part truth aand only the part truth.

fatlazyless · 12-22-2010, 10:17 AM

Anyone looking for something to do on Friday evening? www.freewardbird.org has a Christmas virgil & songfest sing-a-long planned for the Center Harbor band gazebo, just across from the post office, on Friday, December 24, from 6-7pm. Should maybe be a big turn-out what with all the strong local interest plus there will be a musical band and some talented singers/musicians.

Not able to get there? You should be able to attend it "virtually" on line, I believe at www.freewardbird.org, but that may be incorrect.

What would be real nice to see would be a strong rendition of Jail House Rock, the popular Elvis song, but performed by an Elvis style look-a-like made up to look just like WARD. Would that get any attention or what? Oh well......ho-hum.....just a thought......I bettcha that Annie & The Orphans band from Center Harbor could put that all together real good in about 20-minutes of rehearsal time.

...arrrrrrrooooooooo.....oops...sorry Hound-Dog...it's not your song!

You might be surprised about this, but just a little bit of Elvis can go a long way in motivating public support!

Can you believe it, this Christmas Eve "Free Ward Bird" virgil & songfest is the lead front page story in today's Dec 22 www.unionleader.com .......

The Center Harbor band gazebo is a terrific designer-archirtected public structure located on the sloping town green just across from the Center Harbor Congregational Church, Center Harbor post office, & fire station/police station/town office and Center Harbor Public Library, and the sloping hill creates a large outdoor ampitheater style venue. One heck of a good spot for an outdoor concert, and hopefully the weather will be friendly!

Will you be there?

Yosemite Sam · 12-23-2010, 06:58 AM

On the front page of todays LDS it states the following:

"Police records suggest Ward Bird’s accuser stumbled into
a heated dispute between members of large M’boro family"

This is a very interesting read!

I didn't realize that there was a family feud going on about the land that Harris was interested in buying.

fatlazyless · 12-23-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam[B

This is a very interesting read![/B]

Looks like Ward definately goes first class with both his choice of a handgun and his choice of a defense attorney.

I had been think'n that he had an old .45 WW2 style gun, but this article says it is a Sig Sauer 45 which is something that a police officer could easily be carrying. A gun like that probably costs about $750, and is made in Switzerland.

I still say that for about 8.99, he could of got himself a first class corn broom and then used the broom to be waving off any lost women look'n for directions.

Besides, no way can you sweep the floor with a $750 Sig .45!

nvtngtxpyr · 12-23-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... and is made in Switzerland.

The Sig Sauer factory is located in Exeter New Hampshire.

fatlazyless · 12-23-2010, 09:38 AM

Something like the individual parts get machined back home in Switzerland, and then they get assembled in Exeter, in order to save money on U.S. import fees? Or, something like that, I don't know?

Have you seen the little white oval rear windshield stickers on local cars that say Sig Sauer? What's the message there

?

Anyone know where I can get a similar white oval sticker that says O'Cedar, which as you probably know, is a high-priced maker of mops and quality brooms? Protected by an O'Cedar.....so just back off....you there

!

Shedwannabe · 12-23-2010, 10:22 AM

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

Argie's Wife · 12-23-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedwannabe

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

If Harris' past can't be used in court, why would Bird's past be used in court? Isn't that a double standard?

Even if the article is true, why would that justify a man spending 3-6 years in prison because he waved a firearm at someone running her mouth, refusing to leave, and being a pest? I could see some prison time for that, perhaps... apparently there was no reasonable doubt left that he did something wrong; but isn't the sentence just a bit extreme?

What's next? Are we going to start cutting the hands off kids who steal lollypops?

brk-lnt · 12-23-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

I don't know

This is the most accurate thing you've posted in this thread so far!

lawn psycho · 12-23-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Anyone know where I can get a similar white oval sticker that says O'Cedar, which as you probably know, is a high-priced maker of mops and quality brooms? Protected by an O'Cedar.....so just back off....you there

!

FLL, every time you post about using a broom I have this picture go through my head about you.....

MarkinNH · 12-23-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedwannabe

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

I don't see how it would put egg on anybodys face. It doesn't change the Fact that the woman was tresspassing and refused to leave when asked and then ordered to. It doesn't change the Fact that there is No Proof that Ward ever "waved" a gun in her face or threatened her in any way. It doesn't change the Fact that Ward should not be spending a minimum of 3 years in prison.
All it means is that he doesn't or didn't get along with some of his relatives.
I am sure that the same thing can be said about 99.9% of every family in the world.

rrr · 12-23-2010, 02:00 PM

I agree with AW that you can't look at his past if you can't look at hers.

According to the article: Harris said she was trying to ask him if he was Steven. Steven was not the owner of the property she wanted to see. Steven was 'romantically involved' with the owner. How much information do realtors give out about the owners of property they are showing? Before they show it? I can't imagine how Harris would have known about Steven.

They waited to take his statement because he was recovering from surgery. If he wasn't up to giving a statement, what are the chances he was jumping around waving a gun?

Maybe he's not squeaky clean - but neither is she. Why was her version given more credence than his? He said he overreacted. Maybe he was referring to the language he used.

twoplustwo · 12-24-2010, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedwannabe

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

Funny how in the "extensive police interactions", the aggressor is never Ward. When normally wonderful people turn into the poster children for not mixing alcohol, anger, and firearms, you call the cops and you get restraining orders. Nothing about the long standing feud changes my mind (and I "pontificated" about it earlier, so none of that is news to me).

FLL, your "Jailhouse Rock" joke makes me want to dope slap you. Too bad you can't buy a clue from the McD's Dollar Menu.

Lucky1 · 12-24-2010, 06:39 AM

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did? I came in mid posts list and thought he shot someone. Are you saying that he just showed the gun?? And got three years in jail? I know it is early and I have not had a lot of sleep but can this possibly be what happened?

I was once in my home in Moultonborough with my daughters and heard what sounded like someone on the roof and then someone coming up the basement stairs. My daughters and I sat with our feet against the bedroom door. We were so scared that we shouted out something like, "GO AWAY. LEAVE US ALONE." I called 911 immediately. We were so terrified that I remember saying, "Please hurry" to 911 as I thought there was someone on the stairs coming up to harm us. It turned out to be a male teenager who was just trying to scare one of my daughters?? The policemen risked their lives racing down the neck road to get to us. The teenager had meant no real harm so after the police scolded him they let him go. I do know how someone feels who is thinking someone is breaking into their home to harm them. I have never been tempted to get a gun though. We are sure lucky to have such wonderful public servants such as the police and firemen who do their best to keep us all safe.

Yosemite Sam · 12-24-2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did?

The only thing Ward Bird did was to ask someone to get off his property (which was clearly posted)….he didn’t have a gun in his hand…that’s it…..now he is spending 3-6 years in prison.

I hope that paragraph clears it up for you.

Merry Christmas!

SAMIAM · 12-24-2010, 09:31 AM

Lucky, you are well named. As wonderful as our public servants are, as you stated, you would have been long gone by the time they arrived if that person meant you harm. Anyone who lives in a rural or isolated location would be smart to learn how to use a gun for home protection.
911 didn't help the Cates family when their home was invaded and I wonder if that Dr in Connecticut was wishing he had a firearm on hand when his family was murdered.
The police can not be everywhere and crimes happen in a matter of minutes.

sa meredith · 12-24-2010, 11:18 AM

In case anyone is interested...an article in my local paper this morning.
This woman spends alot of time in court rooms...
http://www.eagletribune.com/newhamps...d-for-January#

NoBozo · 12-24-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did?

Ward was RUDE.

NB

Lucky1 · 12-24-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobozo

ward was rude.

Nb

was this a jury or a judge? Sounds crazy to me.

NoBozo · 12-24-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky1

was this a jury or a judge? Sounds crazy to me.

BOTH Judge and Jury..and then an appeal, which he also lost. The moral of the story is: Don't be RUDE to an unwanted visitor on your own property.

Rudness is "Not Politically Correct". NB

MarkinNH · 12-24-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

BOTH Judge and Jury..and then an appeal, which he also lost. The moral of the story is: Don't be RUDE to an unwanted visitor on your own property.

Rudness is "Not Politically Correct". NB

I am quite sure you meant to say an UNWANTED TRESPASSER, since that is what the woman was !

This is just the type of comment I would expect to hear from a Pansy a$$ whining liberal who feels that the world needs to always play nice and never step on someone else's toes in fear of hurting their feelings or injuring their psyche. God, stand up and grow a pair !
Let me enlighten you NoBozo. This is the Real World !! Here in the real world if I find an unwanted trespasser on MY land, land that I pay for with my hard earned money ! I will be as damned rude to them as I feel necessary !!
If you want to invite them in for tea and cupcakes, go right ahead, just make sure your cell phone is handy in case you need to call 911 while your cowering in the corner.
Merry Christmas

NoBozo · 12-24-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [I

MarkinNH[/I];146517]I am quite sure you meant to say an UNWANTED TRESPASSER, since that is what the woman was !

This is just the type of comment I would expect to hear from a Pansy a$$ whining liberal who feels that the world needs to always play nice and never step on someone else's toes in fear of hurting their feelings or injuring their psyche. God, stand up and grow a pair !
Let me enlighten you NoBozo. This is the Real World !! Here in the real world if I find an unwanted trespasser on MY land, land that I pay for with my hard earned money ! I will be as damned rude to them as I feel necessary !!
If you want to invite them in for tea and cupcakes, go right ahead, just make sure your cell phone is handy in case you need to call 911 while your cowering in the corner.
Merry Christmas

Hey MarkinNH: I AGREE with you. I'm just illustrating Absurdity with Absurdity. It's Christmas Eve. My posts were "Tongue In Cheek"...trying to lighten up an unpleasent situation.

SO: I guess I am just Busting Your PAIR. Merry Christmas Mark.

NB

PS: I have NEVER been called a LIBERAL. Wash your mouth out with soap...

MarkinNH · 12-24-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Hey MarkinNH: I AGREE with you. I'm just illustrating Absurdity with Absurdity. It's Christmas Eve. My posts were "Tongue In Cheek"...trying to lighten up an unpleasent situation.

SO: I guess I am just Busting Your PAIR. Merry Christmas Mark.

NB

PS: I have NEVER beeen called a LIBERAL. Wash your mouth out with soap...

NoBozo, My sincerest apologies for being as rude as I know my post sounded.

NoBozo · 12-24-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

NoBozo, My sincerest apologies for being as rude as I know my post sounded.

Apologies accepted... but NOT Necessary Mark.

NB

sa meredith · 12-24-2010, 06:42 PM

Folks...is it at all possible we should be attacking the law, and the way it is written? As opposed to the Judge/Jury/ each other?
I mean...seriously..a judge can't be an uneducated fool...and probably not a jury for that matter. They determined a law was broken...and at that point there is no 2 ways to look at it. They were forced to make judgement based on the law and the way it is written...their opinions of right or wrong or common sense would have no place it the courtroom.
Merry Christmas. I'm hoping Santa brings me my first gun.
"You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"
fa wa wa wa wa, wa wa wa wa... Great movie.

GM doc · 12-25-2010, 12:06 AM

Well Santa just showed up uninvited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ApS · 12-25-2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

911 didn't help the Cates family when their home was invaded and I wonder if that Dr in Connecticut was wishing he had a firearm on hand when his family was murdered.

The police can not be everywhere and crimes happen in a matter of minutes.

Quote:

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away".

Sunrise Point · 12-25-2010, 08:53 AM

This has made the front page of today's Boston Globe.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new...re_of_nh_town/

Mr. Bird, I hope that you are home soon.

12-05-2010, 07:39 AM	#202
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Worst case scenario......July 30 2001, Meredith NH......Robert Whitney, age 58, former city councilor of Concord NH.....was found strangled......by Gary Sampson (age aprox 30 ?)......a handgun would probably have been helpfull for him but who really knows....it's conjecture....what might have happened.....but there's no reason why a can of spray mace or just a billy club....or even a broom handle....... could have been just as helpfull to scare off Gary Sampson.....and then you call the police. Even if you are totally in the right with the law on using a handgun to defend yourself, you probably still run up some serious attorney bills. Handguns have too many legal issues that the lesser mace or billy club just does not get into......plus if you show a handgun....could be that the next "Gary Sampson" has a handgun too. That was supposedly a totally random murder by a total stranger for no particular reason such as robbery. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-05-2010, 12:15 PM	#204
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	....hey, if anyone tries to break into my place in the middle of the night or something....or set's foot onto my 1/4 acre....all's I have to do is show them my Meredith property tax bill, and that will scare the daylights out of them! Excuuuuuuuse me Mr Burglar....would you mind kindly taking a look-see at this town tax bill............egaaaaaddd.....that would have sacred off even a Gary Sampson ....... ! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-05-2010, 04:15 PM	#207
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-05-2010 at 04:50 PM.

12-05-2010, 08:26 PM	#209
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	With all the commentary in the media, has there been any comments by jurors from the trial? I wonder what they were thinking when they deliberated and if their opinion changed later when they heard more about that "victim". __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

12-06-2010, 12:54 AM	#210
Knockers Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 22 Thanks: 14 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Don't make sense------ Harris wandered onto Ward's property looking at neighboring land that was listed for sale on March 27, 2006. But 6 months later after her altercation with private property owners, her residence of 15 years is condemned a few doors down from Jeffery and Kay Bird in Salem,NH She's charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator removing her cars, failing to comply with a search warrant, being held on $10,000 cash bail and complaints with police back to 1998. After reading the newspaper article below i'm finding it awfully hard to believe there's no evidence that Bird's attorney couldn't use. There's got to be more going on between the Ag's office, county/local PD and municipal officers not to adjust an ill placed law before the charge was issued. Police seize dogs from Salem home; owner charged with assault The Eagle Tribune Fri Sep 14, 2007, 10:37 PM EDT SALEM, N.H. — Police removed about 40 dogs yesterday from a Salem trailer where they had been living in squalor. The owner of the dogs, Christine Harris, 54, of 75 S. Policy St., Lot 61, was charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator and with failing to comply with a search warrant. She is being held on $10,000 cash bail. The odor of dog feces filled the air outside Harris' blue, vinyl-shingled trailer yesterday. A chorus of yelps could be heard from behind the home. "I've been here four years, and you can hear it day, night, weekends," said Tina Fairfield, a next-door neighbor. "We've learned to sleep through it. You learn to live with the stench." The home, cloaked by a row of overgrown bushes, was condemned yesterday by Salem Health Officer Brian Lockhart due to the poor conditions and the number of dogs living there. Around noon, police posted a sign on the front door saying that Harris can't move back in until the home is cleaned. "It's deplorable. It stinks," said Kelly Demers, Salem's animal control officer, as he carried out the dogs yesterday, one by one. Demers said he went to Harris' home yesterday around 9 a.m. with a search warrant that allowed him to inspect the home and count how many dogs she had on her property. "She wouldn't come to the door," he said. "It just so happened that a tow truck driver came to take away a couple of her cars, so then she came out." Angered by their orders to remove two unregistered cars on the property, Harris then allegedly approached one of the two truck operators and shoved him. Police arrived and charged her with simple assault and refusing to comply with Demers' warrant. She has not been charged with animal cruelty. Police had already charged Harris on Aug. 18 with her dogs being a public nuisance and with having several dogs without licensing them. Demers had rounded up four of them that day that were running loose outside her trailer, according to Deputy police Chief William Ganley. "She quite possibly could be running a breeding kennel," Ganley said. The dogs collected yesterday included pugs, Boston terriers, miniature pinschers, three Rottweilers, an English bulldog and mixed breeds. At least twice, Demers removed clear, plastic tubs full of puppies. One had a small dog with three smaller pups nursing. This isn't the first time Harris has caught the attention of police and neighbors. Complaints made to police date back to 1998. In 2002, she was charged with keeping more than five dogs in an area not zoned for a kennel and building an addition to her home without obtaining proper town permits. A judge had ordered the addition — which held nearly 40 dogs — to be torn down, but the case was ultimately dropped because she began complying with town regulations, Ganley said. "Everybody knows you have yapping dogs over there going all night long," said Larry Taylor, a neighbor. "It's brought down the resale value of our property." "I wanted to go to Florida," he said. "My wife said, 'We can't go. We'll get nothing for our property.'" Neighbors said the enforcement brought by town officials comes at a time when the trailer park's owner, Martin Taylor, has made efforts to improve the park. Those improvements include removing unregistered cars. Currently, Taylor is fighting to evict Harris from the property in a case that is now being decided by the state Supreme Court. Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home. "A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch. Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules." Ganley said both neighbors and police have praised Demers for dealing with Harris' case. "He's been working on this for a very long time," Ganley said. "He really loves and cares for those animals." Police said yesterday that if Harris posts bail, she could be allowed back into the home to clean up the property, but she can't live there. The dogs and puppies will likely be held at local animal shelters. It's uncertain if Harris will be able to get them back at some point

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12-05-2010, 10:17 AM	#203
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,226 Thanks: 302 Thanked 800 Times in 368 Posts	I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about. If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me. If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything? Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there. Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner. Yes?

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12-05-2010, 02:47 PM	#205
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	My thought about all of the gun stuff.. If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead. The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive. That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

12-06-2010, 07:34 AM	#211
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	I edited my comment due to my rational not being so good until I have had my coffee...... I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm. I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it. Hopefully I will have the presence of mind to grab my video recorder and use that at the same time I am dialing 911. Yes it will cost money....If I shoot..... Hopefully I will never have to worry about any of this. One thing I will not do is wave my gun around at any time......

12-06-2010, 05:44 PM	#215
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night! Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see. Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan. Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

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12-06-2010, 09:04 PM	#217
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,542 Thanks: 1,071 Thanked 667 Times in 366 Posts	I live in the town next to where Dr. William Petit lost his wife and two daughters to savages. I see his brother a couple of days a week. My wife was Dr. Petit's paitent. He stated at the sentencing hearing that he almost committed suicide during this long ordeal. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! NO TOWN IS SAFE! NO HOME IS SAFE! Dr. Petit had a baseball bat to defend himself. The cowards beat him with it. DO NOT LET ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT A GUN IS UNSAFE TO USE TO PROTECT YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! Take a NRA course to learn how to use the only thing that will protect you and your family when the savages knock down your door.

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12-07-2010, 08:52 AM	#219
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	How safe is it around here? Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own choice for personal protection, be it a .45 semi pistol or a kitchen broom. Me, I think I'll stick with the kitchen broom, or maybe a tennis racquet, and just use it to wave off any would be bad guys, because using a handgun in most cases just escalates a situation. Do not mean to be nasty here or be a jerk, but come on, if Ward had thought to use a broom, would he now be a long term guest down at the gray-bar hotel? Going back to 1992, I've had a total of one time at my cottage on Meredith Neck when I felt a little threatened by an outsider. It was summer, July or August, maybe five years ago, and I was dressed like a house painter because I was outside painting the cottage. A large young white male, maybe 22-years, 225-lb, 6' with an extremely aggressive attitude and spoken language walks around the house, sees me, and he says that he is selling magazine subscriptions, and had some real good magazine deals. So, I had been cleaning a paint brush or something, and I immediately say " you know you need to have a police permit from the Meredith Police to sell magazines, door to door." He says "yes, I have a permit and shows me one from Gilford, but not Meredith." All things considered at that time, I quickly decided not to bring that up, and just told him that I was just the painter, didn't want any magazines, and that the home owner was not home.......and he left. But boy, I tell you, from his demeanor, I would not have wanted to let him inside the house.....no way. It is simply much better to scare them off and call the police than to confront with a gun. You are not the police, and the legal system gives the police the benefit of any doubts on their enforcement practice. Call me a chicken if you want, but I would just rather avoid a confrontation, and just go play some tennis, than to spend a lot of time w/ the legal system. Better to shoot an ace on the tennis court than to shoot a .45 in personal defense. As soon as you shoot just one bullet in self-defense, either as a warning shot, or trying to hit someone, it probably opens up a big can of trouble. Go hide under the crawlspace or something, and let the police be the neighborhood protectors. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-07-2010, 10:38 AM	#220
Yosemite Sam Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 395 Thanks: 81 Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts	What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions? This is what we should be talking about and not what happened when some psychotic individuals broke into someone’s house and…….. You are justified in using lethal force against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. If you have never been attacked, it is natural to wonder how you would react, and whether you would be able to judge the situation properly. But when reality happens to you, you are very likely to find that you have no trouble at all knowing that you are in immediate and unavoidable danger. What you do then will depend on how you have trained yourself (mentally as well as physically) to react.

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12-07-2010, 12:44 PM	#223
Gearhead Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alton Posts: 166 Thanks: 13 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	I wonder how many Americans would open their front door to someone (anyone) in a uniform. It may not be the Maytag man. Once that door begins to open, you could be in big trouble, because gun or no gun, he can knock you off your feet with the door and be on you before you realize what happened. First be sure your door's got a stout chain or a peephole so you can ID your caller. Second, when in doubt, don't invite him in. If he wants in, he'll get in. In the meantime get on the phone and prepare for fight (or surrender) or flight, whichever you're more comfortable with.

12-07-2010, 01:10 PM	#225
beaner Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wolfeboro Posts: 178 Thanks: 17 Thanked 37 Times in 23 Posts	Unfortunately, any weapon - including a gun - can be turned against you. Our laptop has fingerprint recognition log-on technology. As soon as similar technology is available & reliable on a firearm so that only I can fire it, I will buy one. As for Mr. Bird, he had one of the most experienced criminal defense attorneys in the state. By not accepting the plea offer, he gambled, and lost. He should be grateful that he is being allowed to serve his sentence in the Carroll County HOC instead of the NH State Prison. Anyone who doesn't like the outcome of this case shouldn't fault the court system. The legislature passed the law that requires a minimum mandatory sentence of 3 - 6 years for committing a felony with a gun, when the gun is an element of the crime charged. In doing so, they eliminated any possibility of judicial discretion. Meanwhile, the only way he can get his sentence vacated is through a pardon, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for that to happen.

12-07-2010, 01:24 PM	#226
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	Some excellent points all. I think the overall story gets clouded by personal feelings. The intruder has a history of being rather whacked. Bird seems to be well-liked, and has his own stuff going on. Nothing I've read really seems to explain his behavior. Medication? Something she said we don't know about? I think he demonstrated poor judgment, over-reacted, and in a dangerous way. But the punishment is overboard IMO, given both the intruder herself, and most of the testimony and descriptions given. As for the guns? Everyone would like to think that in a home invasion scenario, they'd go get their gun, find the hidden ammunition in a locked cabinet or safe, load the gun, then either scare off the intruder(s) or kill them. If someone had made it into your bedroom, you'd have about a half-second to do that. Sometimes you get lucky, wake up after hearing things, and have enough time to deal with everything else. (probably why I never fix squeaky stairs) I'm sure every family man has thought about this type of incident while kissing the kids goodnight, staying awake just a few minutes pondering it, maybe even after waking up because of some little noise. I'll bet the majority of people have thought about what they'd do. And I'd bet even further that the vast majority of people would forget their plans after fear sets in. But reading about horrific invasions, whether it be the Cheshire CT incident, or the savage and random attacks on the Dartmouth Professor and his wife that were savagely killed, or the recent trial of the guy who used a machete in a home invasion. Here's a recent one as well, involving handguns http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=11577171 There are plenty of home invasions involving violence right in the northern NE area. For all of these cases, I support the death penalty, whether it's administered by the owner of the house, or the Court system. But then we get into the problematic storage of weapons, separate area for ammo, etc... It's probably for those reasons I've never owned a gun.

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12-08-2010, 08:20 AM	#227
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	"He says there are 400 cords of wood around the jail and he'd love to be out there splitting the wood instead of sitting in his cell." quote from today's Union Leader Dec 8 If that doesn't make you feel sad thinking about his situation, then you should read it again and think on that quote. I know next to nothing about the everyday life of a prisoner being held at the Carroll County Jail over in Ossipee NH, but would take a good guess that it must be extremely boring, and boredom can be very very mentally challenging. (Hey, just look at me!) Does the jail have a tennis court? Probably not! Someone once said that the only thing that prisoners can expect to learn in most US prisons is "how to be a good prisoner." That means how to stay quiet, slow down, and not get in trouble with the prison rules and just do your time......period! Maybe the Carroll County Jail has its' own website? Will go take a look-see on that. www.sheriff.carrollcountynh.net http://www.nhpr.org/node/9038 __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-08-2010 at 08:52 AM.

12-08-2010, 10:49 AM	#228
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	curious Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat. How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns????? Anyone????

12-08-2010, 12:06 PM	#229
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	For home use security it would seem that a small .38 revolver would be perfectly adequate. Remember the 1960's tv show DRAGNET, starring Jack Webb as Sergeant Joe Friday, Badge 714, on the L.A.P.D., working the night shift. Sergeant Joe Friday, and his partner's character played by Harry Morgan. I cannot recall Harry Morgan's character's name? Anyway, both these police officers had these small little.38 revolvers with short barrels, and it worked good for them in the great big city of Los Angeles, so a handgun like that should be perfectly good for the lakes region. Plus, they are probably much less expensive, and much safer by design than a semi. because it is LESS complicated. When loaded with bullets, a person who is looking at the gun barrel pointed at him actually gets to see the dull lead bullets inside the revolver sectional chambers, unlike a semi, plus some very potent rounds are made for a .38. Drop a semi, cocked & locked, onto the floor, and will it shoot off....maybe? Do the same with a revolver, and the only way a modern double-action revolver will shoot off is by depressing on the trigger. The gun store in Meredith next to Town Hall probably has them used for a hundred dollars or so? Our newly elected state senator, Jeannie Forester was using her bright pink Glock as an election campaign vote collecting tool in October 2010, so that says something about people's attitudes on handguns, locally. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-08-2010 at 01:43 PM.

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12-08-2010, 01:31 PM	#231
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy. He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........ ....That was no picnic. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-08-2010, 02:01 PM	#232
RailroadJoe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 620 Thanks: 259 Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts	FLL the Devil's advocate.

12-08-2010, 02:05 PM	#233
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,542 Thanks: 1,071 Thanked 667 Times in 366 Posts	More like the Devil's jester. But back on topic, and speaking of the NRA... I certainly hope the NRA is assisting Ward Bird. Sounds like a good case for their efforts. If you are a NRA member, drop a note to them and ask what they are doing to help. Last edited by Pineedles; 12-08-2010 at 02:06 PM. Reason: grammer

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12-08-2010, 08:58 PM	#236
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 410 Times in 251 Posts	Rattle Isle Windy side You might want to freshen up on gun laws. Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home. Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer. Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder. You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for. This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break. While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

12-09-2010, 05:39 AM	#237
Yosemite Sam Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 395 Thanks: 81 Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts	Ward Bird sure does have a lot of support from local businesses. These photos are in today's edition of THE MEREDITH NEWS : Attached Images

12-09-2010, 03:56 PM	#240
rander7823 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 303 Thanks: 549 Thanked 40 Times in 24 Posts	No appeals Tried to read through this entire thread. But doesn't he have an opportunity to appeal the decision?

12-09-2010, 05:45 PM	#241
wuwu Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 35 Thanks: 27 Thanked 26 Times in 10 Posts	Free ward bird! here is a interesting link http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/u...ird_Motion.pdf notice how the crazy lady cannot recognize the defendant. This sounds like a witch hunt!