How has the lake changed????

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

For one, Rep. James Pilliod is a Republican and was a big supporter of speed limits. I am happy to report that I cast a vote against him (or did not cast a vote in favor of him) about 1 hour ago.

But again...he is a Republican, one of many supporting the SL. This is why those who project a huge Republican sweep in November will somehow enable the speed limit to be overturned are delusional. A speed limit may be the most overwhelming issue in the state to some on this forum but believe me it is not to most people in the state. And even if it were, with 9/10 people supporting the SL petition, an 80% agreement among polled voters that a SL was necessary, large bipartisan support in both houses...well you get the picture. Likewise, the people of the state will never allow the Broads to be exempted. People who use this area for fishing, sailing, or otherwise getting from one place to another will never allow these loud and fast behemoths to dominate and marginalize the families that want to boat there.

I have heard of proposals being discussed where boat registration fees will be based on HP, not length ... $1 per HP and that there will be a small fee to register kayaks and canoes. Does anyone have any more info on this?

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

But again...he is a Republican, one of many supporting the SL. This is why those who project a huge Republican sweep in November will somehow enable the speed limit to be overturned are delusional. A speed limit may be the most overwhelming issue in the state to some on this forum but believe me it is not to most people in the state. And even if it were, with 9/10 people supporting the SL petition, an 80% agreement among polled voters that a SL was necessary, large bipartisan support in both houses...well you get the picture. Likewise, the people of the state will never allow the Broads to be exempted. People who use this area for fishing, sailing, or otherwise getting from one place to another will never allow these loud and fast behemoths to dominate and marginalize the families that want to boat there.

I have heard of proposals being discussed where boat registration fees will be based on HP, not length ... $1 per HP and that there will be a small fee to register kayaks and canoes. Does anyone have any more info on this?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You got it wrong, they're charging a flat registration fee for any boat with thru-hull exhaust of $5,000 per year.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

People who use this area for fishing, sailing, or otherwise getting from one place to another will never allow these loud and fast behemoths to dominate and marginalize the families that want to boat there.

Hummm, Cant say that I have EVER seen anything like that going on Winnipesaukee, sure your not talking about somewhere else???

As for fast and loud, seems to me the most common fast boats are the fisherman in bassboats and the loudest are the classics that have old school marine engines with wide open above the waterline exhaust with no mufflers.

And to be 100% honest, I have NEVER had a problem with either!

As for the "behemoths" well my only observation has been if they can afford to pay for the gas, all the power to them,,, There not to my liking, and I dont see myself ever having a 30' plus Baja, Fountain, Formula, etc, but I dont begrudge anyone that does.

Regulating boats because based on appearance is just about as mindless as the incompetents that want to restrict guns because they look like “black military” rifles.

Fact is that my tiny CVX and most bassboats will easily blow past 75 MPH and are far more dangerous to the operator, the passengers and any other boat near them at that speed when compared to any of the “behemoths” you mention. And those same “behemoths” almost always have modern marine exhausts that include mufflers to ensure that they meet sound control standards, where as the classics that I could not ever think of banning most often have no such sound dampening devices nor a way to retrofit them.

The same mentality has been applied to gun control over the years, where a semi-auto AR-15 has been demonized even though its anemic .223 pales by comparison to any modern hunting rifle.

It’s sad to see the vocal opinionated self-absorbed and omniscient few lead the rest of the sheep to slaughter.

I for one am so happy I was born early enough to have seen the pinnacle of our society, because unless common sense is restored soon the future looks bleak and uncharacteristically un-American, where rules and laws are written to control every facet of our lives and individual choice and freedom are mere meaningless words of our ancestors,,,

[ApS]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Fact is that my tiny CVX and most bassboats will easily blow past 75 MPH and are far more dangerous to the operator, the passengers and any other boat near them at that speed when compared to any of the “behemoths” you mention.

Some interesting developments have appeared, as there are now 74 defendants at the Candle Wood Lake crash last year. Three articles are above—the last being the better summary.

Regarding your view of how "harmless" bass boats are (and the differences between "Civil" and "Criminal" law), it would make for good discussions as a new thread somewhere.

Originally Posted by XCR-700

It’s sad to see the vocal opinionated self-absorbed and omniscient few lead the rest of the sheep to slaughter.

Among those who are "the self-absorbed and omniscient" one boater—convicted of manslaughter—attempted later to get a dial-tone at 90-MPH on the Interstate.

Originally Posted by Skip

In Pilliod's race there are 8 Republicans vying for 7 spots on the ballot for Republicans in the General Election in November in the Town of Belmont. By not voting for Pilliod you greaten the chances that he does not survive the primary and hence does not appear on the ballot in November. Hopefully many more voters like SP will scutinize their ballots in their respective communities as well!

Excellent example of a voter doing his homework.

Originally Posted by XCR-700

I for one am so happy I was born early enough to have seen the pinnacle of our society.

Years ago, we just "voted": the above is "Gaming the System", IMHO.

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

What I would like to know is how many speeding tickets on the lake were handed out, and what happened in court. (if it got there)

To me that would say what the difference in speed limit law has done.
With seeing people doing in excess of the speed limit almost all the time I do not concern myself. But those that are doing it within 150' that is what bothers me. I seen the mp GET buzzed by a jet ski with about 40' distance going perhaps full bore. The MP got the man, but what happened in court or how much of a fine did he pay?

Because the Legislature is skilled at raiding NHMP resources, the difference may never be measureable. The only measure I can envision is by the reduction of one-boat crashes involving "the usual suspects".

[Ryan]

Candlewood Lake: The Facts
Candlewood Lake Length: 16 miles
Candlewood Lake Width: 500 feet - 3.2 miles
Maximum Depth: Between 80-90 feet
Average Depth: 40 feet
Shore Line Length: 85-109 miles depending on the measure/criteria
Shore Line as Radius controlled by CL&P: 60+ miles
Surface Area: 8.4 Square Miles
Acres: 5,400
Elevation: 400+ feet
Candlewood Lake Watershed Area: 25,000 miles

Daytime Speed Limit: 45 mph

Night-time Speed Limit: 25mph

Speed Limit within 100ft of Shore, Boats, Docks, etc: 6 mph

[XCR-700]

Well how about a trip out the mouth of the Merrimack river on a modestly quiet weekend day,,,

Operating distance at speed from the hard rock jetty is often under 50’ and separation from other boaters operating at speed sometimes less than that, and as for what “operating speed” is, well it ranges from anchored/free drifting to as fast as they can go without loosing control and I have never seen an accident myself there nor seen any MP/CG/HM ticketing anyone, EVER!

Not that I would like to see that kind of madness on Winnipesaukee, but it sure makes me wonder how anyone ever survived without the 150' boat separation/distance from shore and 50 MPH speed limits,,,

And there are far busier inlets than this one out there,,,

So I say relevant, but keep things in perspective,,,

Originally Posted by Ryan

Candlewood Lake: The Facts
Candlewood Lake Length: 16 miles
Candlewood Lake Width: 500 feet - 3.2 miles
Maximum Depth: Between 80-90 feet
Average Depth: 40 feet
Shore Line Length: 85-109 miles depending on the measure/criteria
Shore Line as Radius controlled by CL&P: 60+ miles
Surface Area: 8.4 Square Miles
Acres: 5,400
Elevation: 400+ feet
Candlewood Lake Watershed Area: 25,000 miles

Daytime Speed Limit: 45 mph

Night-time Speed Limit: 25mph

Speed Limit within 100ft of Shore, Boats, Docks, etc: 6 mph

[ApS]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well how about a trip out the mouth of the Merrimack river on a modestly quiet weekend day...I have never seen an accident myself there nor seen any MP/CG/HM ticketing anyone, EVER...
Not that I would like to see that kind of madness on Winnipesaukee, but it sure makes me wonder how anyone ever survived without the 150' boat separation/distance from shore and 50 MPH speed limits,,,So I say relevant, but keep things in perspective,,,

Thank you for seeing it my way. But, like "the nocturnal-animals" mentioned elsewhere here, you're not going to see nocturnal accidents during the daytime.

The following example is taken from the night-time experience of five boaters: It's at night that waterways would appear entirely the same—regardless of their size or geography.

Merrimack Inlet is certainly different: there are many more islands and many narrow passages around Lake Winnipesaukee.

Our "150-foot barrier" keeps boaters away from most rocky shorelines.

Distanced from spar buoys, that "150-feet" keeps boaters away from the vast majority of the hazards that are remaining.

Tubers and waterskiers are prevented from striking one another—while passing—by virtue of their combined tow-lengths equalling less than 150-feet. For Lake Winnipesaukee, I see the concept as ingenious, and I'd not want the 150-foot law to be ignored by visitors—nor overturned by New Hampshire's "experts in safe boating".

Boaters who visit here from other lakes and salt water need to be aware that Lake Winnipesaukee is a location that is highly recreational.

(Some might substitute "highly" with the word: "extremely"!)

In the case of the Candlewood Lake collision, what follow are some comments—the first two being those from "oversize" boaters, who are generally sympathetic to the Formula 24 that was pierced through the bow by the fast-running bass boat—the "privileged-vessel".

The Formula 24 is further described here, as "a speedboat":

"24 Formula that the guy had for less than a month hit a triton bass boat at high speed. Driver and passenger in Formula died and a 3rd passenger (the firefighter) is in critical condition. Both Bass boat guys are OK. Steering wheel from Formula was found in the back seat."

PLEASE don't run at speed in the dark, folks. These accidents are far too common.

More comments—now from the Media—following the collision. Do any of these sound familiar?

"For too long, the lake has been like the Wild West, not patrolled or supervised, and for too long lake safety has been about finger-pointing, excuses and confusion,"

"Layton was at the wheel, located on the right side of the Formula, and Wanat was in the left-side passenger seat. Sullivan was sitting behind Wanat, witnesses said."

"As they left the restaurant dock, Layton gunned the 365-horsepower motor, and the Formula sped away through the "no wake" zone there at an estimated 35 miles per hour."

"The speedboat was going even faster as it roared past the Candlewood Lake Club, where retired Bethel police officer Ray Pacheco...on a security detail."

"I looked at my employee and said, 'Damn, that boat is hauling,' " Pacheco told EnCon police.

"Further up the lake, at Orchard Point, bass fisherman Richard Tomasini was alone in his boat when he heard a "loud speedboat" approaching."

"The vessel was traveling '45 to 50 knots' when it went past."

"Seconds later, the sound of crunching fiberglass, followed by the whine of a boat's propeller spinning out of the water, reached his ears."

"Back at the Candlewood Lake Club, Pacheco heard a sound 'like a shotgun bang.'"

"In her bedroom, Rasor described the noise as 'a large boom.'"

"The bass boat hit the Formula almost head on, its prow slicing into the speedboat and ripping through the hull directly into the cockpit area."

"The speedboat's momentum carried both vessels north another 150 feet, according to the DEP's Boating Accident Reconstruction Unit. The impact was so great that a mirror image of a Gatorade bottle label was imprinted into the fabric of Layton's seat."

"[The Formula's] Layton likely died instantly. [The Formula's] Wanat was also killed and thrown overboard."

"[The Formula's] Sullivan, sitting in the rear, remained in the boat but was critically injured and covered by wreckage."

"...10 months to the day after the accident, Environmental Conservation police issued their report on the crash."

"The investigation concluded that the [Formula] operated by Mr. Layton failed to yield to the [Bass Boat] vessel as required by the federal rules of navigation,"

"Investigators found no indications that [the bass-boaters] had been drinking, but there were 19 empty beer cans in the Formula. [The Formula of] Layton's blood alcohol level was 0.19, more than twice the legal limit for operation of a car or boat."

"The speedboat's [The Formula] throttle was also fully opened, meaning the engine was running at maximum speed."

"Contributing factors, DEP said, were the time of day, alcohol, and excessive speed."

Haven't we seen this before?

[XCR-700]

Oh sorry if you misunderstood in any way, I neither support the 150’ rule nor the speed limits, nor most of the “well thought out” restrictions.

As for the mouth of the Merrimack, well it can get a bit hairy, but I have NEVER had a problem, nor have most of the folks who travel through there,,,

Some distance buffer seams reasonable, but not 150’ you could land an aircraft with that much buffer. If you need 150' buffer to safely operate your boat, then I cant help but wonder if you are really capable of safely operating it. And speed limits in my mind are the point where you cannot safely operate the particular vessel, but I have no intention of arguing any of this, it is clearly a futile diatribe.

We can agree to disagree and go to neutral corners and act like adults. My corner will be the leave people alone to enjoy the world and then if their actions result in some negative impact to someone/something then hold them accountable as reasonable. Your corner can be the wrap the world in bubble warp and restrict the masses so much that there no negative impact to anyone or anything.

Sometimes the pen is mightier than the sword and sometimes the barbarians conquer the weak,,, and that pendulum swings back and forth. For the moment the pen rules, but very soon the barbarians will be mounted for battle,,,

Please don’t waste any time responding to me or quoting me, it really is not worth the space on the server and I’m not interested in thrashing this out just to fuel the flames.

There is fuel to be burned and I hope to spend more time exercising my tachometer than typing so I’m more than done on this thread,,,

Happy weekend all, and start thinking snow, sledding season is now just weeks away and I am counting the days until I can lay down a cloud of 2 stroke fun,,,

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Thank you for seeing it my way. But, like "the nocturnal-animals" mentioned elsewhere here, you're not going to see nocturnal accidents during the daytime.

The following example is taken from the night-time experience of five boaters: It's at night that waterways would appear entirely the same—regardless of their size or geography.

Merrimack Inlet is certainly different: there are many more islands and many narrow passages around Lake Winnipesaukee.

Our "150-foot barrier" keeps boaters away from most rocky shorelines.

Distanced from spar buoys, that "150-feet" keeps boaters away from the vast majority of the hazards that are remaining.

Tubers and waterskiers are prevented from striking one another—while passing—by virtue of their combined tow-lengths equalling less than 150-feet. For Lake Winnipesaukee, I see the concept as ingenious, and I'd not want the 150-foot law to be ignored by visitors—nor overturned by New Hampshire's "experts in safe boating".

Boaters who visit here from other lakes and salt water need to be aware that Lake Winnipesaukee is a location that is highly recreational.

(Some might substitute "highly" with the word: "extremely"!)

In the case of the Candlewood Lake collision, what follow are some comments—the first two being those from "oversize" boaters, who are generally sympathetic to the Formula 24 that was pierced through the bow by the fast-running bass boat—the "privileged-vessel".

The Formula 24 is further described here, as "a speedboat":
More comments—now from the Media—following the collision. Do any of these sound familiar?



Haven't we seen this before?

We certainly have, all over the country. In fact, some of us have pointed it out many, many times. What you've just pointed out, at least twice here alone, verifies that you concur with many things I've said, many times.

You have a lake, which has a speed limit, lesser at night than in daytime. At least one boat broke the night time speed limit, at least one, and the drive of the give away boat was intoxicated, to say the least. It's happened many times in many lakes, and in boats ranging from 16' outboards to huge speedboats to cruisers.

You "Think" (hard to believe), that this makes speed limits an issue, or go fast boats an issue. It doesn't. Anyone with the intelligence of an avocado can read the facts you portray, and come up with a reasonable explanation as to what needs to be done to prevent it.

Nope, MOT, it has nothing to do with "oversized boats", not even close. Even the Candlewood people knew the lake had not been patrolled, it's laws not enforced, you even quoted that. But in your zest to make a point, you basically proved my point. Yet another accident caused by a drunken driver, and even another that failed to see a collission that could have been prevented. AND the Formula was speeding recklessly in a No Wake Zone.

Do you even read what you post?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Tubers and waterskiers are prevented from striking one another—while passing—by virtue of their combined tow-lengths equalling less than 150-feet. For Lake Winnipesaukee, I see the concept as ingenious, and I'd not want the 150-foot law to be ignored by visitors—nor overturned by New Hampshire's "experts in safe boating".

I am going on the record that SBONH is an ardent supporter of New Hampshire's Safe Passage law (AKA 150' rule) and the NH Marine Patrol's enforcement of said law.

It is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise.