How has the lake changed????

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I see things differently Steve.

Several years ago some people, starting on Bear Island, perceived a problem. They stood up, got together, raised money, and started working for a speed limit solution. You may think their solution was misguided, but at least they stood up and DID something.

The other side believed standing around talking about the problem, or posting about the need for more education and enforcement etc. was the answer. But it's just talk. There is no money for that.

I am proud that I was part of a movement that actually took a stand and made a difference. Even if it does get us called terrorists.

If someone else has a better idea than speed or horsepower limits, I recommend they stand up and actually do something productive. Because Skip is correct, if speed limits don't do the job then we will be looking for another solution. Probably one you will not like.

Some people will look at a problem, throw up there hands and say it can't be solved. I'm not built that way. It can be solved, it WILL be solved, tho it might take decades. Tough problems require tough solutions. Unpopular solutions.

If, as you say, a 300 HP limit will not solve the problem then we may need to try a 200 HP solution. Or 100 or 50 or 25. Eventually, somewhere along the process, the cowboy mentality will cease to be a problem. After all, a cowboy in a kayak is just not that scary.

BI, what good will it do to pass another feel good law when there is no monetary support for enforcing the rules. Just heaping more rules on the MP
to enforce is not going to help- it will hinder.

The problem that I have with your version of problem solving is that it will not work- forcing people to do things via a law will only result in the law abiding doing those things.

Instead of spending $ on lobbyists and getting laws passed that don't need passing, perhaps that same level of energy can and should be spent in Concord telling our legislators that they need to educate and enforce: both can be achieved through a better funded NHMP.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

BI, what good will it do to pass another feel good law when there is no monetary support for enforcing the rules. Just heaping more rules on the MP to enforce is not going to help- it will hinder.

The problem that I have with your version of problem solving is that it will not work- forcing people to do things via a law will only result in the law abiding doing those things. ...
.

So I think you are saying that if a HP limit becomes law, people will simply ignore it, and the Marine Patrol will be helpless to enforce it.

You think EVERY owner of an illegal boat will openly flaunt the law and take the risk of their boat being impounded?

That the Marine Patrol will throwing up their collective hands in frustration and admit they can not read a boat registration?

A horsepower limit must be one of the easiest laws to enforce. If the HP on your registration is more than allowed you boat is impounded. See you in court. It will be just that simple. Violations will be rare, mostly by someone that launches a boat without getting the word.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

So I think you are saying that if a HP limit becomes law, people will simply ignore it, and the Marine Patrol will be helpless to enforce it.

You think EVERY owner of an illegal boat will openly flaunt the law and take the risk of their boat being impounded?

That the Marine Patrol will throwing up their collective hands in frustration and admit they can not read a boat registration?

A horsepower limit must be one of the easiest laws to enforce. If the HP on your registration is more than allowed you boat is impounded. See you in court. It will be just that simple. Violations will be rare, mostly by someone that launches a boat without getting the word.

Just do something... even if it's wrong.

The scary thing is that you could traverse the state and ask people if they think 300 HP in a boat is too much (now remember Ma'am your minivan parked there has a little over 170 HP) and the answer by the uninformed would be absolutely. Well maybe if they had headlights...

I saw one of those little hydrofoil type boats out the other day, it was maybe 18', had probably 1/2 the 270HP my 46 MPH BR packs but could easily break the SL by 30 MPH. 300 HP is not about cowboys. Any racer knows it is about weight and HP.

So explain what you are really after. The HP limit does not solve your cowboy problem, because a kayaker that gets run over by a boat going 70 is not going to care that it was an 18' boat with a 135HP engine on it.

I have gone on the record on numerous occasions explaining that I do not own a performance boat nor do I own a boat with greater than 300HP. With all due respect to Pastor Martin Niemöller:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Performance Boaters
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Performance Boater.

THEN THEY CAME for the 300plusHP boaters,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a 300plusHP boater.

THEN THEY CAME for the Big Cruiser boaters,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Big Cruiser Boater.

THEN THEY CAME for me (the Bowrider Boater)
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Ryan

...Stopping every boat that they 'believe' might be exceeding your HP limit will only lead to probable cause issues (Skip) and takes away MP resources from policing the ACTUAL issues on the lake, not those perceived issues...

Please folks, if you are going to drag me into the conversation and throw about legal terms at least know what you are talking about.

You do not need "probable cause" to stop a boat. You need "probable cause" to effect an arrest.

You only need "articulable suspicion" to stop and temporarily detain a boat operator.

There is a significant legal difference between these two legal concepts.

Thank you....

[VtSteve]

I know what you guys mean. BI is laughing out loud at those of us promoting safety, freely acknowledging that the SL he supports was in now way designed to stop the problems on the lake. That would have been an interesting addition to the old SL discussions. To those that supported the SL, how would this have sounded?

"You should support the speed limit, it won't really solve anything, but it's something we can get passed. We know you'll go along with it because it sounds Safe. So even though we lie about our reasons, we're really not bad people, so please don't try to hurt our feelings. We are working on many rules, regulations, and some outright bans that may actually do something in the future.

So don't let all these mean-spirited people dissuade you from supporting whatever law we decide may pass. Some people actually think we care whether or not the MP actually enforces these silly laws we come up with, We Don't. Every time we pass a new law, and the MP cannot or does not enforce it, we'll just come up with another law, and then another, and yet another.

We just can't stop ourselves. Every time a boat wake hits shore, it hurts our feelings. We like our own powerboats, of course. But this is about ridding the lake of other people's boats, not yours. Picture a wave-free lake, with all boats having small, 25 hp engines. Except for the camp boats with their monster wakes, of course.

We don't expect anything to really come of these laws, except fewer people (hopefully) will be boating on Winni after awhile. So keep up the good work Safe Boaters, inspecting vessels, pushing for enforcement, and all that really silly stuff. We're Really doing things, making laws, rubbing elbows with legislators that want votes, really neato stuff. We don't really know what's next on the agenda, but it will likely be something boaters don't like."