Ok...got a question.....

eillac@dow · 08-04-2010, 08:53 PM

I am co-owner (with a family member) of a boat and a jetski. A few weekends ago, the other co-owner allowed "non licensed" person to use the jetski.

If something was to happen, who is responsible.....us or the driver?

I have friends coming up this weekend and one of them, who is currently not licensed, is taking a test at Trexler's (for a two week license).

I want to play it safe. I certainly do not want to be held responsible for other's actions. Its a tough spot to be put in....being co-owners!

Thoughts....comments?

Thank you.

Eillac@dow

VitaBene · 08-04-2010, 09:02 PM

The operator will be responsible for any fines or tickets relative to operation or lack of a certificate. You and the other owners will be liable in the event of an accident.

I am often surprised that many people do not carry liability insurance on their toys (snowmachines in particular). It is reasonably priced. If you want to have an umbrella liability policy, it is required that you max the liability portion of your primary insurance.

jrc · 08-04-2010, 09:31 PM

You really should be careful about legal advice from any internet forum.

If you loan your jetski to someone and they cause serious injury to someone else. The injured party will go after everyone especially the deepest pockets. You, the co-owner and the operator. Be careful, protect yourself.

MAXUM · 08-04-2010, 11:04 PM

Anyone who doesn't carry insurance is really taking a huge and unnecessary risk. Especially since coverage is inexpensive. Matter of fact carrying an umbrella policy is something to consider too.

Joe Kerr · 08-05-2010, 03:45 AM

It is important for you to know what your liability is. Worth an hour of lawyer time to be sure. Then get the response in writing on lawyer letterhead. Let the lawyer help you protect yourself even if it means he writes letters to the co-owners.

With an automobile my understanding is that YOU are liable if you allow an unlicensed person to drive your car. Insurance for unlicenced drivers covers the other car (not you or yours) I think.

Best to be safe than potentially lose your home or get embroiled in a legal mess.

robmac · 08-05-2010, 04:07 AM

The person without his ir her certificate will be cited which will in turn go against their driving record,you would be responsible for any tow bill. I tell my guests no paper no fun.

chipj29 · 08-05-2010, 07:05 AM

I know you can't control what your co-owner does, but if I was you I would strongly encourage them to not let anyone take out your toys. Since it is half yours, you should have a say in it.

Under no circumstances do I allow anyone to drive my Sea Doo PWC. Not even with a certificate. Yes, I have full insurance on it. I just don't trust anyone.

BroadHopper · 08-05-2010, 07:18 AM

In the state of NH, you can register a vehicle/vessel without insurance. However, by law, you have to show 'Proof of financial responsibility' in case you do get into a situation that requires payment in case of an accident. The courts shows no leniency toward those you can not pay for damages or injuries when they are at fault. Something to seriously think about before driving your vehicle or vessel. Perhap Skip can chime in here.

Merrymeeting · 08-05-2010, 08:47 AM

As often happens in forum threads, I believe this is spinning a bit off track.

No where did eillac say there was no insurance. Given the fact that he/she was concerned enough to ask the question about liability, I would suspect that there is coverage. But that was not the original question.

The original question concerned who is liable, insurance or not, if an incident happens with an unlicensed operator. A valid tangent could be the same question for a licensed operator as it may not make a difference.

In the end, the lawyers will try to go after anyone they can in a given situation. The best you can do is reduce your exposure by,

a) having insurance
b) being careful about whom you allow to use your toys
c) getting good legal advice.

VitaBene · 08-05-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kracken

Exactly,

Its unbelievable how many people don't know that.

To add to it, if a driver gets into an accident without insurance and they cannot make restitution, they will not only be held financially liable for all damages they will be required to show proof of insurance before they can operate a motor vehicle again.

Operating any vehicle without insurance is wrong. Even if your vehicle’s value is directly proportionate to the amount of gas in your tank; when you get behind the wheel of anything you have the responsibility to protect all others from your actions.

If you can’t afford insurance, you can’t afford to drive.

IMHO

To take it one step further, I strongly recommend that you ensure that YOUR policy includes uninsured/ under-insured coverage so that you are protected against those knuckleheads that drive around you without insurance. Otherwise you may be receiving your settlement a dollar a week for the rest of your life.

Skip · 08-05-2010, 08:50 AM

Some very good answers here.

Once again this question shows the holes & loop holes we have here when we compare boating laws to comparable regulations covering vehicles, atvs and snowmobiles.

There are various regulations in the OHRV and automotive rules that can hold an owner legally accountable for the operator of a vehicle registered to them.

The same issue is mostly left uncovered when it comes to boats.

That said if you "knowingly" allow an unlicensed operator to operate a vessel owned or co-owned by you then you open yourself up to tremendous civil liability.

The key word being "knowingly", as is admitted by the original poster.

Additionally some insurance carriers have exclusions on coverage if the operator is in violation of the law at the time of the accident.

Bottom line:

Have Insurance!

Know what that insurance covers, but more importantly - excludes!

Do not allow anyone to operate a vessel you own or co-own unless you know for sure they have the appropriate safety certificate.

Just a sidenote and not to get too far off track...

If you allow someone to operate a vessel you own and you should have known that that person was unfit to operate, including the fact that they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, you open yourself up to the opportunity to be indicted for one or more felonies!

08-04-2010, 08:53 PM	#1
eillac@dow Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dow Island & Weymouth, MA Posts: 365 Thanks: 295 Thanked 94 Times in 48 Posts	Ok...got a question..... I am co-owner (with a family member) of a boat and a jetski. A few weekends ago, the other co-owner allowed "non licensed" person to use the jetski. If something was to happen, who is responsible.....us or the driver? I have friends coming up this weekend and one of them, who is currently not licensed, is taking a test at Trexler's (for a two week license). I want to play it safe. I certainly do not want to be held responsible for other's actions. Its a tough spot to be put in....being co-owners! Thoughts....comments? Thank you. Eillac@dow

08-04-2010, 09:02 PM	#2
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,591 Thanks: 1,628 Thanked 1,641 Times in 844 Posts	Liability The operator will be responsible for any fines or tickets relative to operation or lack of a certificate. You and the other owners will be liable in the event of an accident. I am often surprised that many people do not carry liability insurance on their toys (snowmachines in particular). It is reasonably priced. If you want to have an umbrella liability policy, it is required that you max the liability portion of your primary insurance.

08-05-2010, 03:45 AM	#5
Joe Kerr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 92 Thanks: 23 Thanked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Rent a lawyer for an hour It is important for you to know what your liability is. Worth an hour of lawyer time to be sure. Then get the response in writing on lawyer letterhead. Let the lawyer help you protect yourself even if it means he writes letters to the co-owners. With an automobile my understanding is that YOU are liable if you allow an unlicensed person to drive your car. Insurance for unlicenced drivers covers the other car (not you or yours) I think. Best to be safe than potentially lose your home or get embroiled in a legal mess. __________________ ~ Joe Kerr

08-05-2010, 07:05 AM	#7
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	I know you can't control what your co-owner does, but if I was you I would strongly encourage them to not let anyone take out your toys. Since it is half yours, you should have a say in it. Under no circumstances do I allow anyone to drive my Sea Doo PWC. Not even with a certificate. Yes, I have full insurance on it. I just don't trust anyone. __________________ Getting ready for winter!

08-05-2010, 07:18 AM	#8
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,577 Thanks: 3,220 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	Proof of financial responsibility In the state of NH, you can register a vehicle/vessel without insurance. However, by law, you have to show 'Proof of financial responsibility' in case you do get into a situation that requires payment in case of an accident. The courts shows no leniency toward those you can not pay for damages or injuries when they are at fault. Something to seriously think about before driving your vehicle or vessel. Perhap Skip can chime in here. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

08-04-2010, 09:31 PM	#3
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	You really should be careful about legal advice from any internet forum. If you loan your jetski to someone and they cause serious injury to someone else. The injured party will go after everyone especially the deepest pockets. You, the co-owner and the operator. Be careful, protect yourself.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jrc For This Useful Post:
Kracken (08-05-2010), VitaBene (08-04-2010)

08-04-2010, 11:04 PM	#4
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Anyone who doesn't carry insurance is really taking a huge and unnecessary risk. Especially since coverage is inexpensive. Matter of fact carrying an umbrella policy is something to consider too.

08-05-2010, 04:07 AM	#6
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	The person without his ir her certificate will be cited which will in turn go against their driving record,you would be responsible for any tow bill. I tell my guests no paper no fun.

08-05-2010, 08:47 AM	#9
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,226 Thanks: 302 Thanked 800 Times in 368 Posts	As often happens in forum threads, I believe this is spinning a bit off track. No where did eillac say there was no insurance. Given the fact that he/she was concerned enough to ask the question about liability, I would suspect that there is coverage. But that was not the original question. The original question concerned who is liable, insurance or not, if an incident happens with an unlicensed operator. A valid tangent could be the same question for a licensed operator as it may not make a difference. In the end, the lawyers will try to go after anyone they can in a given situation. The best you can do is reduce your exposure by, a) having insurance b) being careful about whom you allow to use your toys c) getting good legal advice.

The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
Kracken (08-05-2010)

08-05-2010, 08:50 AM	#11
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Some very good answers here. Once again this question shows the holes & loop holes we have here when we compare boating laws to comparable regulations covering vehicles, atvs and snowmobiles. There are various regulations in the OHRV and automotive rules that can hold an owner legally accountable for the operator of a vehicle registered to them. The same issue is mostly left uncovered when it comes to boats. That said if you "knowingly" allow an unlicensed operator to operate a vessel owned or co-owned by you then you open yourself up to tremendous civil liability. The key word being "knowingly", as is admitted by the original poster. Additionally some insurance carriers have exclusions on coverage if the operator is in violation of the law at the time of the accident. Bottom line: Have Insurance! Know what that insurance covers, but more importantly - excludes! Do not allow anyone to operate a vessel you own or co-own unless you know for sure they have the appropriate safety certificate. Just a sidenote and not to get too far off track... If you allow someone to operate a vessel you own and you should have known that that person was unfit to operate, including the fact that they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, you open yourself up to the opportunity to be indicted for one or more felonies!