Ugly in Alton

Jonas Pilot · 06-08-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Here's a house that is near the top of the list for ugly. I bet they think it looks nice with a now denuded hillside too. They should be ashamed. I wonder what state the owners are from? This was taken with a point and shoot digital camera and boat was bouncing around (from last Sunday). Haze is from the Canadian wildfires.

Maybe we should have a "best" and "worst" of the lake?

In the spirit of "Winni".

partsman · 06-08-2010, 08:42 PM

I could live here.

angela4design · 06-08-2010, 08:43 PM

I feel like there should be a line of You Momma jokes inserted, replacing "house" for "Mama".

Your house is so ugly... when it joined an ugly contest, they said "Sorry, no professionals."

GTO · 06-09-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angela4design

I feel like there should be a line of You Momma jokes inserted, replacing "house" for "Mama".

Your house is so ugly... when it joined an ugly contest, they said "Sorry, no professionals."

Your house is so dirty....you have to wipe your feet before you go outside

Steveo · 06-09-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

In the spirit of "Winni".

Nice setting but I would prefer a natural pine needle covering versus a fertilized lawn.

OCDACTIVE · 06-09-2010, 11:13 AM

I agree clear cutting in many cases needs to be done to avoid trees falling in a storm. While I would hope that many people would make sure they brought back the asthetics to their property to have it fit in with its natural surroundings, each person has their own say in what is done to their property and what they like.

That being said I feel there has been some outrageous examples of people clear cutting, then not completing the job, which should be illegal frankly. A perfect example is the scar on Red Hill. This area, i have heard, was purchased by a developer which unfortunately went belly up. However the land has been stripped to the rock which has not grown back in at least 5 years because the topsoil has washed away. Although not on the lake, it is visable by almost the entire north west portion.

Issues like this is a major reason why "protective" laws have been enacted that have made it so difficult to build on the lake. However it also makes it difficult for the regular property owner to legally develop their property. Case in point: I have a friends where it took over 2 years to add a 150 square foot addition on the back of their house to make their bathroom bigger. Because they were on the lake it took 2 years and upwards of 100 hours of doing the planning and submitting the paperwork to get approved. Apparently you have to now count and measure the diameter of every tree and count every shrub. Apparently if one were to hire a surveyor to do the leg work for a permit you are looking at $7500!!

So I am not commenting on whether I believe someone's house is "ugly" etc. and I am not for more legislation, but there has to be a fine line between asking for laws to protect against clear cutting and restrictions that are outrageous for and everyday land owner without thousands to invest.

jrc · 06-09-2010, 11:19 AM

OCD you describe the results of these poorly written laws, average Joe's cannot do minor changes because of the cost of proving they comply with the draconian laws. Big guys with money can hire experts to get whatever they want.

DEJ · 06-09-2010, 12:12 PM

You need a different hobby.

birchhaven · 06-09-2010, 12:32 PM

I always find people's inability to self reflect on the fact that every house on the lake is part of a development (maybe not in peoples current definition, but still the same) It is all rather short sighted. That fact remains that just about everything around the lake (and all of NH) was really clear cut 100 years ago. There was not a tree on all of Gov. Island.
All neighborhoods have the same natural progression and mentality, as soon as one person moves in, no one else is allowed, create regs to keep them out, and ridicule them since their new house wasn't built at the dawn of time.

Also I find this thread in very poor taste

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birchhaven

Also I find this thread in very poor taste

Please explain why?

OCDACTIVE · 06-09-2010, 12:49 PM

I think everyone needs to step back from their keyboards and take a breath.

I don't believe L.P. has bad intentions towards the said house. I think he was just using it as an example of what he believed to be an eye sore but not intended to insult the property owner. (at least that's how I read it)

The discussion of clear cutting and errosion is something that effects everyone in the lakes region whther it be the property owner, boater, other land owner, or visitor to the lake.

While I don't condone the thread going personal i.e. asking for pictures of his personal property. I do think he has brought to light a very good discussion concerning keeping the lakes region asthetically pleasing and not over run by over eager developers.

Perhaps the title of the thread could be changed to portray the issue, but I think the discussion is something that can be benificial to all and opinions shared.

Ok.. back to the keyboards and let the firing commence.

birchhaven · 06-09-2010, 12:50 PM

Ridiculing someones (probably) prized possession in a public forum with photographs is in poor taste and if you can not see that then it only reaffirms my take on your taste in things and mental outlook. Offering your opinion in a private setting is one thing, but if I owned that property (and it is clear that the landscaping is yet to grow in) I would probably want that photo taken down, and/or wonder who you are.
Again if the reason for publicly bashing someone elses property being in poor taste to you, is something you need explained to you, you are beyond my help. (and I think you know why it is and you are just try to stir things up on here, come on)

OCD, I agree-fully the discussion should be had, just not like this.

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birchhaven

Ridiculing someones (probably) prized possession in a public forum with photographs is in poor taste and if you can not see that then it only reaffirms my take on your taste in things and mental outlook. Offering your opinion in a private setting is one thing, but if I owned that property (and it is clear that the landscaping is yet to grow in) I would probably want that photo taken down, and/or wonder who you are.
Again if the reason for publicly bashing someone elses property being in poor taste to you, is something you need explained to you, you are beyond my help. (and I think you know why it is and you are just try to stir things up on here, come on)

OCD, I agree-fully the discussion should be had, just not like this.

Since taste has no definition, I question your word choice. Someone above also said "classless" which I would also argue is a poor word choice as it can't truly be defended. I actually laughed out loud at that post. I'll save you the debate on this as it can be quite an intellectual exercise.

I stand 100% behind my post that the hillside is an example of what should not happen on the lake. I also think the thought of having their own house being posted is what is getting people's feather ruffled.

If they improve it to add trees and vegetation, that would go a long way towards preserving both the lake and surrounding aesthetics. Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

HOWEVER, suppose someone is seen on the lake doing something that the photographer found of interest. Now suppose the subject in the photograph complains about being called out (snowmobile skimmer, on plane too close to shore, rafting, anchoring too close). Should that be removed? Do you support censoring?

Irish mist · 06-09-2010, 01:20 PM

Congrats Lpsycho on another WEIRD thread. I thought after the infamous "Girl Scout Cookie thread" you may have learned something about proper behavior in a public forum. Do you "get" how off-putting it is to go around taking pictures of private property and then post them on this forum for you to make an example of ?

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish mist

Congrats Lpsycho on another WEIRD thread. I thought after the infamous "Girl Scout Cookie thread" you may have learned something about proper behavior in a public forum. Do you "get" how off-putting it is to go around taking pictures of private property and then post them on this forum for you to make an example of ?

Thanks for reminding me about that. Maybe we can coat the hillside in trans fat

jmen24 · 06-09-2010, 01:32 PM

Being that this is a good topic (not really thread, but the topic has merit), I would like to talk about some issues and ideas. Anyone want to join in, feel free. It is not tied to the current bantering and I will ask to have my post moved to a new thread if that is more comfortable.

One thing to consider when cutting trees around ones home is that not all trees are a danger to a structure. Pines, well the roots spread out and not down, plus pines prefer and do much better when grouped together. They use each other to keep from breaking off in higher winds, so if you start taking down large established trees, you really need to remove most of them.

Hardwoods that are healthy, do not have a V 20' up the trunk will most likely never come crashing down. The root system on maples for example, penetrate down and out, creating a very stable base for a tree that can grow very large.

Alot of what we have around here is granite. Trees that grow over the top of and around large pieces of rock tend to be very unstable, no matter what the native species.

All to often when working with clients I hear them talk about wanting all the trees cleared out of the way, so that they can see the view of the Lake. It is typically at that point that we will discuss other alternatives to doing this. Some trees are completely in the way of things and those need to come out, others can be pruned to a high height to allow for the view and still keeping some shade and shadowing on the lot. Another thing that is more typical is to bring in trees that are 8-10 year growth, plant them in an area that allows for pleasing views and does not make the lot seem brand new.

Really who wants to sit on a deck that is constanted blasted by the sun.

It is all about planning ahead of time to construct a home that fits with the site you have. So many times we have folks walk in with a set of plans that they bought off the internet and take us to a lot that is a complete nightmare to try and fit the style of house on. These are the homes that in general look like they do not belong and give folks a bad taste about them. Some serious time and thought in the beginning can go a long way to creating a beautiful setting when complete. These things do not cost an arm and a leg either. Instead of setting you heart on a solid home design first, walk in with a few different choices of what you like and then adjust the one that works with the lot to fit your needs and desires.

It is all about planning, but in todays day and age, folks are in such a rush that they try to skip as many steps as possible to get to the end game. That typically results is homes that most folks do not care to look at.

Think about almost every home that really appeals to you around the lake, they all just seem like they belong and blend. Even Mark's monster SF house on GI has a pleasing fit to the landscape. Other than the size of the home, they all seem to have one thing in common, small scale exteriors and landscaping that tones them down even further.

That is the mark of a truely well developed piece of property.

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

You need a different hobby.

So I guess anyone who complains or has a counter-point to anything should get a new hobby?

Usually when people don't have a valid argument they try and marginalize the topic.

DEJ · 06-09-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Usually when people don't have a valid argument they try and marginalize the topic.

That is not my intention. Let me be blunt.

Usually when adults have a concern with something they do some background work before posting on public forums. That said the fact that you think it is ugly is your right to say so however where is your proof other than it is your opinion that this house is causing any harm to the environment or water quality? Are they violating any laws? Did you even bother to check? If so what are they? Did you contact the town of Alton for the opinion of the building/code officer? I think we all know the answer to those questions.

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

That is not my intention. Let me be blunt.

Usually when adults have a concern with something they do some background work before posting on public forums. That said the fact that you think it is ugly is your right to say so however where is your proof other than it is your opinion that this house is causing any harm to the environment or water quality? Are they violating any laws? Did you even bother to check? If so what are they? Did you contact the town of Alton for the opinion of the building/code officer? I think we all know the answer to those questions.

rain -> No/little vegetation -> hard surfaces (rocks) -> steep slope -> run-off

I haven't gotten he answer on the laws yet. And FYI, I do my homework. May want to be careful about running at the mouth and search some of my previous posts as I find out the facts.

DEJ · 06-09-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I haven't gotten he answer on the laws yet. And FYI, I do my homework. May want to be careful about running at the mouth and search some of my previous posts as I find out the facts.

Glad you admitted you have no facts.

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

Did you contact the town of Alton for the opinion of the building/code officer? I think we all know the answer to those questions.

Question and then rhetorical statement.

I respond to said question, and then you state I had no facts. Nice try but not very clever.

You presumed I did not do any diligence. My answer is I am waiting for the response. You were wrong.

DEJ · 06-09-2010, 01:41 PM

Looks like we have a troll here folks. Nice try on the diversion regarding facts.

OCDACTIVE · 06-09-2010, 01:45 PM

Jmen, first let me thank you for your truely informative post.

From your experience have you seen the new watershed regulations to have a negative impact on permits and construction? Would you catagorize it as being over bearing and too expensive? Also, do you think that the there is also a need for these types of laws for construction away for the lake shoreline to avoid clear cutting? Lastly, do you know of any fines or penaltys now in place that may be imposed on instances as I mentioned before where Redhill was clear cut then left with nothing?

Sorry to pick your brain but it seems like you have a handle on the situation.

Thanks

lawn psycho · 06-09-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEJ

Looks like we have a troll here folks. Nice try on the diversion regarding facts.

And then he goes back to the marginalize tactic... Troll? Are you dressed as another poster that loves to use that mode of operandi?

I'll stay on point. DEJ, explain where the water that starts on the top of hill ends up (without defying any known physical law).

John A. Birdsall · 06-09-2010, 12:54 PM

I have watched those two houses work for a few years now, and I believe the frontage (lake) is getting better they work on it every year and not just a little. The street side of the house is not all that big, and it is close to the road. Every house can be ugly to someone. I think in time the houses and lots will look fine. Yes they took down trees and I do not like that, but they are putting up rocks and other things to keep the land from going into the lake. Perhaps Nature would have been better, but recently I have been told that many of the big pines that are actually on sand are hollow and could be dangerous.

06-08-2010, 08:43 PM	#3
angela4design Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Meredith Posts: 353 Thanks: 45 Thanked 54 Times in 38 Posts	Yo Mama.. I feel like there should be a line of You Momma jokes inserted, replacing "house" for "Mama". Your house is so ugly... when it joined an ugly contest, they said "Sorry, no professionals."

06-09-2010, 11:13 AM	#6
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	just my 2 cents I agree clear cutting in many cases needs to be done to avoid trees falling in a storm. While I would hope that many people would make sure they brought back the asthetics to their property to have it fit in with its natural surroundings, each person has their own say in what is done to their property and what they like. That being said I feel there has been some outrageous examples of people clear cutting, then not completing the job, which should be illegal frankly. A perfect example is the scar on Red Hill. This area, i have heard, was purchased by a developer which unfortunately went belly up. However the land has been stripped to the rock which has not grown back in at least 5 years because the topsoil has washed away. Although not on the lake, it is visable by almost the entire north west portion. Issues like this is a major reason why "protective" laws have been enacted that have made it so difficult to build on the lake. However it also makes it difficult for the regular property owner to legally develop their property. Case in point: I have a friends where it took over 2 years to add a 150 square foot addition on the back of their house to make their bathroom bigger. Because they were on the lake it took 2 years and upwards of 100 hours of doing the planning and submitting the paperwork to get approved. Apparently you have to now count and measure the diameter of every tree and count every shrub. Apparently if one were to hire a surveyor to do the leg work for a permit you are looking at $7500!! So I am not commenting on whether I believe someone's house is "ugly" etc. and I am not for more legislation, but there has to be a fine line between asking for laws to protect against clear cutting and restrictions that are outrageous for and everyday land owner without thousands to invest. __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

06-09-2010, 12:32 PM	#9
birchhaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 132 Thanks: 14 Thanked 54 Times in 30 Posts	self reflect I always find people's inability to self reflect on the fact that every house on the lake is part of a development (maybe not in peoples current definition, but still the same) It is all rather short sighted. That fact remains that just about everything around the lake (and all of NH) was really clear cut 100 years ago. There was not a tree on all of Gov. Island. All neighborhoods have the same natural progression and mentality, as soon as one person moves in, no one else is allowed, create regs to keep them out, and ridicule them since their new house wasn't built at the dawn of time. Also I find this thread in very poor taste Last edited by birchhaven; 06-09-2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason: forgot the n't

06-09-2010, 12:49 PM	#11
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	I think everyone needs to step back from their keyboards and take a breath. I don't believe L.P. has bad intentions towards the said house. I think he was just using it as an example of what he believed to be an eye sore but not intended to insult the property owner. (at least that's how I read it) The discussion of clear cutting and errosion is something that effects everyone in the lakes region whther it be the property owner, boater, other land owner, or visitor to the lake. While I don't condone the thread going personal i.e. asking for pictures of his personal property. I do think he has brought to light a very good discussion concerning keeping the lakes region asthetically pleasing and not over run by over eager developers. Perhaps the title of the thread could be changed to portray the issue, but I think the discussion is something that can be benificial to all and opinions shared. Ok.. back to the keyboards and let the firing commence. __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

06-09-2010, 12:50 PM	#12
birchhaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 132 Thanks: 14 Thanked 54 Times in 30 Posts	here's why Ridiculing someones (probably) prized possession in a public forum with photographs is in poor taste and if you can not see that then it only reaffirms my take on your taste in things and mental outlook. Offering your opinion in a private setting is one thing, but if I owned that property (and it is clear that the landscaping is yet to grow in) I would probably want that photo taken down, and/or wonder who you are. Again if the reason for publicly bashing someone elses property being in poor taste to you, is something you need explained to you, you are beyond my help. (and I think you know why it is and you are just try to stir things up on here, come on) OCD, I agree-fully the discussion should be had, just not like this. Last edited by birchhaven; 06-09-2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason: add ocd part

06-08-2010, 08:42 PM	#2
partsman Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Meredith Posts: 28 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	I could live here.

06-09-2010, 11:19 AM	#7
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	OCD you describe the results of these poorly written laws, average Joe's cannot do minor changes because of the cost of proving they comply with the draconian laws. Big guys with money can hire experts to get whatever they want.

06-09-2010, 12:12 PM	#8
DEJ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 553 Thanks: 526 Thanked 314 Times in 155 Posts	You need a different hobby.

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DEJ For This Useful Post:
birchhaven (06-09-2010), Eagle54 (06-09-2010), HC0209 (06-09-2010), ishoot308 (06-09-2010)

The Following User Says Thank You to birchhaven For This Useful Post:
HC0209 (06-09-2010)

06-09-2010, 01:20 PM	#14
Irish mist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 683 Thanks: 127 Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts	Congrats Lpsycho on another WEIRD thread. I thought after the infamous "Girl Scout Cookie thread" you may have learned something about proper behavior in a public forum. Do you "get" how off-putting it is to go around taking pictures of private property and then post them on this forum for you to make an example of ?

06-09-2010, 01:32 PM	#16
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Being that this is a good topic (not really thread, but the topic has merit), I would like to talk about some issues and ideas. Anyone want to join in, feel free. It is not tied to the current bantering and I will ask to have my post moved to a new thread if that is more comfortable. One thing to consider when cutting trees around ones home is that not all trees are a danger to a structure. Pines, well the roots spread out and not down, plus pines prefer and do much better when grouped together. They use each other to keep from breaking off in higher winds, so if you start taking down large established trees, you really need to remove most of them. Hardwoods that are healthy, do not have a V 20' up the trunk will most likely never come crashing down. The root system on maples for example, penetrate down and out, creating a very stable base for a tree that can grow very large. Alot of what we have around here is granite. Trees that grow over the top of and around large pieces of rock tend to be very unstable, no matter what the native species. All to often when working with clients I hear them talk about wanting all the trees cleared out of the way, so that they can see the view of the Lake. It is typically at that point that we will discuss other alternatives to doing this. Some trees are completely in the way of things and those need to come out, others can be pruned to a high height to allow for the view and still keeping some shade and shadowing on the lot. Another thing that is more typical is to bring in trees that are 8-10 year growth, plant them in an area that allows for pleasing views and does not make the lot seem brand new. Really who wants to sit on a deck that is constanted blasted by the sun. It is all about planning ahead of time to construct a home that fits with the site you have. So many times we have folks walk in with a set of plans that they bought off the internet and take us to a lot that is a complete nightmare to try and fit the style of house on. These are the homes that in general look like they do not belong and give folks a bad taste about them. Some serious time and thought in the beginning can go a long way to creating a beautiful setting when complete. These things do not cost an arm and a leg either. Instead of setting you heart on a solid home design first, walk in with a few different choices of what you like and then adjust the one that works with the lot to fit your needs and desires. It is all about planning, but in todays day and age, folks are in such a rush that they try to skip as many steps as possible to get to the end game. That typically results is homes that most folks do not care to look at. Think about almost every home that really appeals to you around the lake, they all just seem like they belong and blend. Even Mark's monster SF house on GI has a pleasing fit to the landscape. Other than the size of the home, they all seem to have one thing in common, small scale exteriors and landscaping that tones them down even further. That is the mark of a truely well developed piece of property.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jmen24 For This Useful Post:
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06-09-2010, 01:41 PM	#22
DEJ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 553 Thanks: 526 Thanked 314 Times in 155 Posts	Looks like we have a troll here folks. Nice try on the diversion regarding facts.

06-09-2010, 01:45 PM	#23
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	back on topic please! Jmen, first let me thank you for your truely informative post. From your experience have you seen the new watershed regulations to have a negative impact on permits and construction? Would you catagorize it as being over bearing and too expensive? Also, do you think that the there is also a need for these types of laws for construction away for the lake shoreline to avoid clear cutting? Lastly, do you know of any fines or penaltys now in place that may be imposed on instances as I mentioned before where Redhill was clear cut then left with nothing? Sorry to pick your brain but it seems like you have a handle on the situation. Thanks __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

The Following User Says Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
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06-09-2010, 12:54 PM	#25
John A. Birdsall Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norwich, CT Posts: 599 Thanks: 27 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	house vs lots I have watched those two houses work for a few years now, and I believe the frontage (lake) is getting better they work on it every year and not just a little. The street side of the house is not all that big, and it is close to the road. Every house can be ugly to someone. I think in time the houses and lots will look fine. Yes they took down trees and I do not like that, but they are putting up rocks and other things to keep the land from going into the lake. Perhaps Nature would have been better, but recently I have been told that many of the big pines that are actually on sand are hollow and could be dangerous.