Truck Buyers Beware

[Woodsy]

Ishoot...

You are way off..... Unless your a landscaper or someone like that who is CONSTANTLY towing a large trailer aound town you dont want 4.11s! In normal everyday (non towing/no plowing) use that truck will GUZZLE fuel.... your mileage would be horrendous.

Most modern engines are designed to run most effeciently right around 2000 RPM, give or take a few hundred RPM. Once you start climbing past that magic number, your mileage drops off appreciably.

Without getting into semantics like transmission ratios etc, just like everything else... a gear ratio is a compromise! Given the same final ratio in the transmission, a high gear ratio such as 3.08 will give better gas mileage because the engine turns at a lower rpm (lower HP & Torque) and the car travels farther... the trade off is that your engine will have to downshift while climbing hills occassionally, especially while towing.

A low ratio such as 4.11 you will have your engine in a much higher rpm thus making more HP & torque..... so less downshifting is required. But running at a higher rpm constantly burns alot more fuel. You dont want to run a truck with 4.11's up a highway.... you can pass everything but a gas station.


The trade off is a mid range ratio like 3.43 or 3.73.... it offers fairly decent gas mileage yet is able tow acceptably. This is ratio range most commonly seen...


Woodsy

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Ishoot...

You are way off..... Unless your a landscaper or someone like that who is CONSTANTLY towing a large trailer aound town you dont want 4.11s! In normal everyday (non towing/no plowing) use that truck will GUZZLE fuel.... your mileage would be horrendous.

Most modern engines are designed to run most effeciently right around 2000 RPM, give or take a few hundred RPM. Once you start climbing past that magic number, your mileage drops off appreciably.

Without getting into semantics like transmission ratios etc, just like everything else... a gear ratio is a compromise! Given the same final ratio in the transmission, a high gear ratio such as 3.08 will give better gas mileage because the engine turns at a lower rpm (lower HP & Torque) and the car travels farther... the trade off is that your engine will have to downshift while climbing hills occassionally, especially while towing.

A low ratio such as 4.11 you will have your engine in a much higher rpm thus making more HP & torque..... so less downshifting is required. But running at a higher rpm constantly burns alot more fuel. You dont want to run a truck with 4.11's up a highway.... you can pass everything but a gas station.


The trade off is a mid range ratio like 3.43 or 3.73.... it offers fairly decent gas mileage yet is able tow acceptably. This is ratio range most commonly seen...


Woodsy

Woodsy;

I think you need to re-read my post. I said 3.73 would be the correct compromise and 4.11 would be in a towing package. So how am I "way off"??

Dan

[robmac]

IMHO,and as a tech Dave R has achieved the best of both world w/a minimum investment. Changing the circumference of the tire changes your gear ratio so you can get the gain from both ends. I have always ordered my trucks w/ a 3.73 ratio for the best for towing and fuel economy and it helps for sure on the 1300 mile trip up and down 95 twice a year. As far as price on left-over units you just need to tell the dealer this is what I'll pay,with floor planning charges it's better to roll it than sit on it. You can check Edmunds .com to find as close to dealer cost as you'll ever be able to.

[XCR-700]

Well if personal experience counts, heres my tale of woe,,,

I have a 2006 Avalanche 4WD w/5.3 and let me state lond and clear that having 3.42 gears is the single biggest disapointments I have with this truck!

It is a DOG,,,

I got it used in showroom condition with 25k miles for a blowout price and it was exactly what I wanted, but for the gear ratio.

Unfortunately I didnt realize just how bad it would be having such a high gear ratio. Given what I know I thing I would have selected another truck.

In my case my last vehicle was a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 5.9 and 3.73 gear ratio with short (225/75-16) tires, so I had a benchmark for pulling my trailers (2 place enclosed snowmobile - single axle boat roughly 2800 Lbs - And a tandem axle boat roughly 4800 Lbs).

Sadly I thought the Avalanche with its far newer engine technology would beat the performance of my old-school Jeep hands down, boy was I in for a rude awakening,,, Its power cerve is way up the RPM scale and it has NO low end torque,,,

So not having a good gear ratio is a killer to towing performance.

My Jeep would pull the side off a house with little effort, the Avalanche ia a slug until you get it rolling and get some serious RPM.

Guess you live and learn.

Not sure if the 4.10 gear option would have brought Avalanche up to equal with the jeep, but it would sure have helped.

So I for one say dont even think of buying a chevy without the 4.10's and plan to tow with it, you will be SORRY!!!

GH

[ishoot308]

I agree XCR700, I went through the same thing with my business a few years ago. I am in the construction trades and we currently have 27 vehicles on the road daily, all pickups and vans. A few years back, in an effort to save on fuel costs, we started to purchase higher gear ratio vehicles (3.42 - 3.55) and it was the biggest mistake we could have ever made! Our fuel costs were higher and transmissions started going sooner than expected. These vehicles were complete dogs both in city driving and highway driving!

All of my vehicles now have 3.73 gears and my tow vehicles have the 4.10 / 4.11 gears. We will never go back!

Dan

[Little Bear]

Solve all the problems - buy a Tundra. Made in Texas, USA.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Solve all the problems - buy a Tundra. Made in Texas, USA.

There is a problem with the Tundra.... The GAS miliage is in the Toilet.... with a 4.35 rear end.... they have some power for towing, but the gas milage is the worst in the market.

[malibu]

GM went with the 3.08 gears when they came out with the 6 speed trany. The 6 speed shifts through the first three gears quickly so the gearing can be higher or lower depending on how you look at it. The older trucks had 4 speed trany's requiring the 3.73 or 3.42. I have an 06 chevy with the 3.42 and with tow/haul mode its not bad when towing. It all depends on how much weight you are going to tow?

Think snow!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by malibu

GM went with the 3.08 gears when they came out with the 6 speed trany. The 6 speed shifts through the first three gears quickly so the gearing can be higher or lower depending on how you look at it. The older trucks had 4 speed trany's requiring the 3.73 or 3.42. I have an 06 chevy with the 3.42 and with tow/haul mode its not bad when towing. It all depends on how much weight you are going to tow?

Think snow!

I was thinking the same thing, but then I looked at the chevy web site and they still offer the shorter gear ratios, so I think the logic is flawed. I'm guessing the 6 gear rations are just more closely spaced than what they replaced, not much different in top to bottom range. I could not easily find the old and new gear ratios though...

[Lakepilot]

Originally Posted by malibu

GM went with the 3.08 gears when they came out with the 6 speed trany. The 6 speed shifts through the first three gears quickly so the gearing can be higher or lower depending on how you look at it. The older trucks had 4 speed trany's requiring the 3.73 or 3.42. I have an 06 chevy with the 3.42 and with tow/haul mode its not bad when towing. It all depends on how much weight you are going to tow?

Think snow!

I agree with Malibu. The 4 speed used in Silverado's was a 4L60 and had the following forward gear ratio's

1=3.06
2=1.63
3=1.0
4=.7

The 6 speed that replaced this is the 6L80 and is geared as follows:
1=4.027
2=2.364
3=1.532
4=1.152
5=.852
6=.667

The gears in the axles then determine the final gear ratio i.e. 4.10 or 3.73 etc. Look at the 4L60 ratio of highest gear to lowest gear versus the 6L80. Much wider.

By the way I also have an 05 Silverado with 3.42 gears and occasionally tow a 5,000 trailer (can you say large flat plate front) and used to tow my 21' Four Winns. The truck does it. But it is more optimized for daily driving. I drove to Mcadoo PA and picked up that trailer getting 20 mpg. Pulling it back I got 13 mpg.

This issue comes up all the time on an RV site I frequent. One thing I've noticed from that site, a lot of folks claim you need a 3500 diesel dually to pull a 2000 pound trailer.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

I agree with Malibu. The 4 speed used in Silverado's was a 4L60 and had the following forward gear ratio's

1=3.06
2=1.63
3=1.0
4=.7

The 6 speed that replaced this is the 6L80 and is geared as follows:
1=4.027
2=2.364
3=1.532
4=1.152
5=.852
6=.667

The gears in the axles then determine the final gear ratio i.e. 4.10 or 3.73 etc. Look at the 4L60 ratio of highest gear to lowest gear versus the 6L80. Much wider.

Thanks for the info. That's a nice spread of gears and is different than I imagined. I can now see that the overall gearing could be numerically lower and still offer perfectly adequate towing performance.

You typically stay out of overdrive when towing, so the 6 speed is limited to 4 speeds and the 4 speed is limited to 3 speeds. With 3.42 gears, in fourth gear, the 6 speed would have roughly the same drive ratio as the 4 speed in 3rd gear with 3.92 gears.

I'd avoid 3.08 gears, even with the 6 speed. There's no good gear for towing. 3rd is too low (4.71) and 4th is too high (3.54).

[fatlazyless]

After sitting unused for over two years, and taking about two hours to clean and vacuum a large chipmunk or mouse(?) nest built directly on top of the engine last month, I am pleased as punch that my '97 F150 xlt xtracab 2wd w/ 206k miles, a V6 and 5-speed manual starts up and seems to be running real nice. And, all it took was a new Wal-Mart battery for $65 and some new fresh gasoline and a bottle of el cheapo $2 carb-ejector cleaner.

I was stunned!

Have no clue on the rear end gear ratio!

Old Ford pickups never die, they just become neighborhood eyesores!

Could be I should go to VIP-Laconia for a $23 oil change and pour some Restore in with the new oil.....probably a good idea.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Question for the experts. We have two Ford Expeditions with tow packages. Can someone explain what the overdrive on off function actually does? I know it is supposed to be off when towing and on when driving but does it do more than prevent me from going into the highest gear on the highway? If I am pulling the boat up the launch ramp at 1 mph, does it matter if the switch is on or off?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Question for the experts. We have two Ford Expeditions with tow packages. Can someone explain what the overdrive on off function actually does? I know it is supposed to be off when towing and on when driving but does it do more than prevent me from going into the highest gear on the highway? If I am pulling the boat up the launch ramp at 1 mph, does it matter if the switch is on or off?

It prevents the transmission from shifting into overdrive which is your highest gear. Makes no difference at the ramp unless you are unloading at highway speed

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Question for the experts. We have two Ford Expeditions with tow packages. Can someone explain what the overdrive on off function actually does? I know it is supposed to be off when towing and on when driving but does it do more than prevent me from going into the highest gear on the highway? If I am pulling the boat up the launch ramp at 1 mph, does it matter if the switch is on or off?

It makes no diffference at low speeds and simply locks out overdrive like you think it does.

I was told by a friend that used to own a transmission shop to use the "O/D off" function whenever driving below 50 MPH or when towing. He also said when towing to ALWAYS shift (up or down) on a lifted throttle. This means that if I'm about to climb a hill that I'm reasonably sure will require 2nd gear at some point, I should manually downshift to 2nd before I start the climb. I have followed his advice and it has proven to be great. My 11 year-old Durango has 120,000+ miles with lots of heavy (7400 lbs) towing on the original transmission with no issues. Dodge transmissions have a pretty bad reputation for short lives.

It might seem kinda brutal to drop into 2nd gear and rev to 4000 RPM to maintain highway speeds up long hills, but it does not hurt the engine at all. It's not any different than the loads a boat engine sees.

[NoBozo]

My current '07 Toyota Tacoma V-6 4x4 (245hp) Access Cab (5 spd) Automatic requires me to be in D4...NOT OD when I TOW. I have a 3,000# trailer/boat. I get 21 MPG on the highway w/o the boat. With the boat I get about 16 MPG in D4. My rear end ratio is 3.73. It is adequate..

My OLD (142,000 miles) 1995 Tacoma V-6 4x4 (190HP) Access Cab STICK (5 Spd) got 27 MPG on the highway W/O the boat and 21 MPG WITH the boat.... going over the mountains from the LR to Rutland, Vt to Lake George.

My new truck is nice because it has all the STUFF that the old truck didn't have..A/C..power windows..etc.

BUT..the old truck was a real working truck...the new one is ...well.. comfortable. NB

[Seeker]

My '04 Avalanche Z71 4x4 w/ tow pkg says to use the Tow/Haul switch and I think it says to drop down 1 gear. Hey, I read the manual 5 years ago. I can't even feel my 12'x101" snowmo trailer w/ 2 4-stroke 2-ups behind me but i sure know when I have a 2,999# boat and trailer behind me. Feels like I'm towing my tractor without a trailer. I don't tow more than a few hundred miles a year so fuel economy isn't an issue.

[Lakepilot]

Originally Posted by Dave R

It makes no diffference at low speeds and simply locks out overdrive like you think it does.

I was told by a friend that used to own a transmission shop to use the "O/D off" function whenever driving below 50 MPH or when towing. He also said when towing to ALWAYS shift (up or down) on a lifted throttle. This means that if I'm about to climb a hill that I'm reasonably sure will require 2nd gear at some point, I should manually downshift to 2nd before I start the climb. I have followed his advice and it has proven to be great. My 11 year-old Durango has 120,000+ miles with lots of heavy (7400 lbs) towing on the original transmission with no issues. Dodge transmissions have a pretty bad reputation for short lives.

It might seem kinda brutal to drop into 2nd gear and rev to 4000 RPM to maintain highway speeds up long hills, but it does not hurt the engine at all. It's not any different than the loads a boat engine sees.

I agree with everything you said. It's the shifting of the tranny at speed that heats it up. If you had a temp gauge on monitoring tranny temp. you'd see a big drop with it in one gear, even loaded, versus constantly shifting. Lot's of rvers have temp. gauges. Cheap way to extend the life of the tranny,

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

Lot's of rvers have temp. gauges. Cheap way to extend the life of the tranny,

I think they are being added standard on a lot of trucks now. I know the F-150s have them although there could be certain models that don't but I think it's standard equipment.

[Coolbreeze]

I think this forum site needs a new topic area. Maybe we'll call it "hot rod shop" or "tech talk" where we can discuss topics like this. I think it will be a huge hit!
The information listed is really useful. Great New Year to all!
-Coolbreeze

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Question for the experts. We have two Ford Expeditions with tow packages. Can someone explain what the overdrive on off function actually does? I know it is supposed to be off when towing and on when driving but does it do more than prevent me from going into the highest gear on the highway? If I am pulling the boat up the launch ramp at 1 mph, does it matter if the switch is on or off?

If I am pulling the boat up the launch ramp at 1 mph, does it matter if the switch is on or off?

No, but I would manually shift it into first gear, just in case of any wheel slippage.
Always use low ,or first gear when towing a heavy load up a ramp, or just to get it moving, depending on mud-sand that the trailer tires may be in.

For over the road...

When you tow, be it a utility, boat or travel trailer, with the added weight, never use overdrive as this will overheat and burn the transmission fluid and cause early transmission failure. Repair, ball park ( $2500.00 ).

Also, you need to make sure that the factory 'Tow Package' includes an external transmission cooler, the heavier duty the better.

I've done a lot of towing over the years with many different tow vehicles and combination trailers. I have installed auxiliary coolers and even temperature gauges to monitor transmission temps.

Many may or may not have read my blog out here. My Dad towed a 46' house trailer across this wonderfull Country of ours with a 1949 Buick RoadMaster. The rig weighed 7.5 tons. The dynaflow automatic transmission used 1/2 a pint of automatic transmission fluid after our 4,376 mile trek...

I hope this helps.

Terry

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

There is a problem with the Tundra.... The GAS miliage is in the Toilet.... with a 4.35 rear end.... they have some power for towing, but the gas milage is the worst in the market.

My average is almost 15mpg. Can't be much worse than similar size Chevy, Dodge or Ford. I don't do much highway driving.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

My average is almost 15mpg. Can't be much worse than similar size Chevy, Dodge or Ford. I don't do much highway driving.

I'm getting 18+ MPG with my '09 F150 SuperCrew with mixed driving . I have the 3.73 rear end and towing package. Albeit I drive it easy and don't do rocket launches from stop lights so that plays a part.

If I had the 3.55 gears I would be over 19 MPG. I have a co-worker with the exact same truck as mine but he has the 3.55 and he gets close to 20 MPG but his commute it 10 miles of 45 MPH and next to no stop lights.

When I'm filling up the 36 gallon fuel tank, I'd sure like to get another 2 MPG I can tell you that.

My truck is rated for 9300 lbs of towing, his is rated at 7200 pounds because of the different rear ends.

[codeman671]

My 2010 Ford F-350 Lariat crew 4x4 long bed dually with the powerstroke is getting 8-9mpg according to the computer. Much of the 1600 miles on it has been with a 9 1/2' v plow on the front which is certainly weighing it down. It does have the Tow Boss package with the 4.30 rear end. I think my mileage will average out in the 12-14mpg range at best if I am lucky.

It will tow or plow anything but certainly was not built for economy. I am frequently towing boats, equipment trailers, etc and wanted something that could move whatever I wanted to. My 05 Dodge 2500 Quad cab hemi 4x4 was decent and better on fuel, but struggled with the equipment trailer and bobcat on the slightest incline.

[VtSteve]

I looked at all the incredible deals that GM was having last year. About a $10,000 discount on average. Most of their trucks had the 3.55 gears. At $22k, they had a nice GMC Sierra, 3.73 gears, nice upgrades, but it was the WT versions with tow package. The only downside was the no carpet sparse interior. But for me, a truck was a second vehicle by far. $19k and I was in a Sierra with the wimpier engine and smaller gears. No go for my purposes.

If I stuck to a boat under 5000 pounds total, I'd look elsewhere. Probably a Tacoma 4-door with towing package. But I have to tell you, having no tow vehicle saves a ton of money. It costs me a vacation or two with the boat, some take-out cleaning advantages, but saves me over $20k. That's a lot of gas. Gas is about third or fourth on the list as far as my looking for a tow truck goes. At an estimated 6000 miles a year, I wasn't going to worry about a few miles per gallon.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Solve all the problems - buy a Tundra. Made in Texas, USA.

Not in this life!

Next time I get the Dodge!!

W/Mega-Cab - long Bed - and 4.10's!!! Now thats a real "man-truck" for sure.

GH

p.s. Or maybe one of these,,,

[Tank151]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Not in this life!

Next time I get the Dodge!!

W/Mega-Cab - long Bed - and 4.10's!!! Now thats a real "man-truck" for sure.

GH

p.s. Or maybe one of these,,,

You want a work or towing truck? Buy Ford

You want comfort and ride? Buy a Chevy or GMC

You want a "planter"? Buy a DODGE!

You want to accelerate really fast and don"t want to stop or steer? Buy a Toyota!

[jmen24]

Tank1, that was funny.

Something else to consider when truck shopping.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...ord_spark.html

Our Ford E350 box van has had three blow out of the head. All different ports.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Tank1, that was funny.

Something else to consider when truck shopping.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...ord_spark.html

Our Ford E350 box van has had three blow out of the head. All different ports.

Damn, THAT doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling!

I have a 2001 F-250 with the 5.4 Triton BUT it only has 55,000+ miles on it. If it's an age-related issue (meaning based on # of hrs or miles on the vehicle), then maybe I've got a few more years left on it before it starts popping plugs (since I don't put alot of miles on it)!

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Damn, THAT doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling!

I have a 2001 F-250 with the 5.4 Triton BUT it only has 55,000+ miles on it. If it's an age-related issue (meaning based on # of hrs or miles on the vehicle), then maybe I've got a few more years left on it before it starts popping plugs (since I don't put alot of miles on it)!

Wish I could tell you that it is mileage related, but the first one popped at around 20K the other two last year at over 150K. It is a 2002.

Has more to do with the head material and whether your number is up, have friends with Ford's that have never had an issue, well into the 200K range.

When I first looked into the issue last year (I was not around for the first one) I was blown away when I started reading those entries (300+ pages worth).

It seems to be new and old, basically anything with that head on the Triton. You don't hear much on the news regarding this issue that has been going on for years, granted I do not think anyone has died because of it, but some of the failures have been fairly catastophic from the posts.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Wish I could tell you that it is mileage related, but the first one popped at around 20K the other two last year at over 150K. It is a 2002.

Has more to do with the head material and whether your number is up, have friends with Ford's that have never had an issue, well into the 200K range.

When I first looked into the issue last year (I was not around for the first one) I was blown away when I started reading those entries (300+ pages worth).

It seems to be new and old, basically anything with that head on the Triton. You don't hear much on the news regarding this issue that has been going on for years, granted I do not think anyone has died because of it, but some of the failures have been fairly catastophic from the posts.

Reading the first few pages of comments leads me to believe that either the spark plug hole threads in the heads are stripping out..OR... in a couple of cases the plugs Broke Off, leaving the threaded portion of the plug still in the head during removal.

If the head material is aluminum, stripping the threads out when removing the the plugs can be avoided by always useing "Anti Seize Compound" on the spark plug threads when screwing them in will Solve that problem. I do this every time I remove or replace the plugs, even in the more common cast iron heads.

If stripping is occuring, I can see why Ford is ignoring it. A good mechanic WILL use the compond, and the threads won't strip. It's just good practice to use it and Ford can't be held responsible for mechanics poor workmanship. Aluminum IS very tender and can be stripped if you're not careful.

Now, many people reported the plugs were actually "blowing out" of the head. Is that a "correct" description of what's going on or is that just what the laymen owner was told..? Does Ford make their own spark plugs..?

Anywho: If the plug actually strips out the threads in the head, the solution is relatively easy to fix. Remove the heads (not that expensive) and Drill, Tap, and Insert Heli Coils in the plug holes. "Heli Coil" provides the special tools for their inserts, and any good mechanic has them. Do ALL the plug holes at the same time. That way you only have to remove the heads once.

Always use "Anti Seize Compound". Permatex makes it and it comes in a little tube that can be found at any NAPA or Bennys, etc

It's probably a good idea to remove all your plugs early in the life of the car and apply the compound as soon as you can. A little Perventive Maintenance. NB

BTW: If yhe plugs are actually breaking off in the hole.. leaving the threaded part of the plug in the hole....That will be expensive because there is nothing left to get a hold of to screw the broken piece out. Sometimes an "Easy Out" tool works but I've never had any luck with them. .....AND....if you break off the "hardened" steel Easy Out in the hole in the broken plug..you are REALLY screwed then.

[jmen24]

In the case of the two plugs for us last year, the plug blew out of the threaded hole with the head threads still firmly attached to the plug threads, nothing left in the head, while driving, both at the same time on almost polar opposite cylinders. Required tapping new threads and a hela-coil. Grapone quoted us at $5400.00, said they had to pull the engine to repair, had it done at my friends garage (professional shop in Loudon) for $700.00, no need to pull the motor out.

When my wife and I were first dating this same thing happened to her 1990 Ford Escort.

I would have no doubt that inserting a new plug with to much torque could start this problem. Our plugs were a little over 50K since the last tune up, so they held for quite a while if this was the case. Hard telling not knowing.

This appears to be a fairly Triton specific issue.

That would be one really large list of poor mechanics if it was a simple case of stripping the threads during removal.

Anyway, no real dog in the fight, could care less what brand of vehicle one drives, I select based on options required or wanted vs. value to get them.

Just thought I would add the information for any potential shoppers out there.

[NoBozo]

Thanks Jmen: The threads in an aluminum head can be stripped out during routine plug removal if the plugs have been in there awhile. I think I'm going to take my own advice and pull the plugs on both my Toyotas ('05 and '07) and apply the Anti Seize Compound to the plug threads ASAP. I've never had them out yet since new because the mileage is low. Around 21k miles on the '07 Tacoma. NB

[robmac]

Another thing to remember manufacturers recommend removal after engine cool down period. Most failures I have repaired come from the quicky tune-up places that just pop open the hood and try and remove them. Knock on wood I have never had that problem but any good tech can repair it fairly easily.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Tank1, that was funny.

Something else to consider when truck shopping.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...ord_spark.html

Our Ford E350 box van has had three blow out of the head. All different ports.

I've heard of that. In addition, they have a fifteen year-old problem that could definitely warm up your engine compartment

Thankfully, these fires are not a safety issue, because the fires are "mostly" contained within the engine compartment. Except when they're not.

[gf2020]

I originally posted on this thread 2 months ago.

I finally purchased a new 2010 Toyota Tundra CrewMax today. I have previously owned a 2004 Nissan Titan crew cab and a 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 extended cab.

I was really leaning towards another Titan again, there are great deals to be had on them. I also liked the new F-150 very much but I could not cut a decent deal including my trade. I never seriously considered Chevrolet/GMC or Dodge, their prices are too high, no doubt due to the bailout requirements.

In the end, however, I decided to try the Tundra even though it is a bit more expensive than the Titan. I hope it turns out OK, I plan to keep this one 9 years (until my boys are out of college).

Toyota upped their incentives on Tuesday to a $2000 rebate and 0% financing for 60 months on the CrewMax so I pulled the trigger today.

P.S. It has a tow rating of 10,300 pounds.

[Mr. V]

I have a newer Ford, but just for kicks I like to hit it old school.

One nice thing about living here on the left coast is all the rust free old iron.

My '79 Jeep Cherokee Chief, which I restored, is Da Bomb.

If only I could figure out a way to ship Old Iron to New England, and turn a profit ...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Solve all the problems - buy a Tundra. Made in Texas, USA.

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Not in this life!

Next time I get the Dodge!!

W/Mega-Cab - long Bed - and 4.10's!!! Now thats a real "man-truck" for sure.

GH

If you're looking at a taxpayer-subsidized Dodge pickup, consider the optional "RamBox Holsters" (a $1895 option).

'Looks like a tidy spot for a 308.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well if personal experience counts, heres my tale of woe,,,

Why don't you just change the gears out then?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Why don't you just change the gears out then?

I did that to one of our vehicles and it was expensive. Because it was four wheel drive I had to replace both front and rear gears. I want to say the price was around $2,400.00 if I remember correctly.

Dan

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I did that to one of our vehicles and it was expensive. Because it was four wheel drive I had to replace both front and rear gears. I want to say the price was around $2,400.00 if I remember correctly.

Dan

Yup thats what I figured,,, Not worth it to me, might as well trade up for that price.

GH

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I did that to one of our vehicles and it was expensive. Because it was four wheel drive I had to replace both front and rear gears. I want to say the price was around $2,400.00 if I remember correctly.

Dan

WOW, who bent you over for that!!! Material cost per axle is under $200 for a full size chevy, ford with standard stock axles. Takes about three to four hours per axle for one person TOPS. Having run mudding and rockcrawling rigs for many years (not so much now) we constantly experimented with ratios and changed gears alot (everytime new tire sizes were tried). I will say that the IFS on newer trucks is more complex than the straight axles we ran, but the one we did was not really that bad, all the inner parts are the same it justs takes a little more to get to them. Group of 8 guys all each with there own rig, everything from FS Blazers, Broncos, Toyotas, Chevy PU and my Jeep XJ. The IFS Chevy was a '95, everything else is older. Most had lockers as well, air, auto or spool. These are about the only parts on the newer vehicles that still work the same as the old, so not much has changed.

All in all, if you can replace brakes on your own vehicle, you can change the gears yourself, it is cheaper than Dave R's tire swap idea (which is a good one as well).

Just to add to the tranny talk, I have a 2009 Tacoma with the five speed auto, these transmissions shift non stop, especially at lower speeds. IMO this is also part of the higher MPG game.

[robmac]

I would be careful changing your ring and pinion on your own. If you don't get your lash and preload correct you are going to have a nightmare very quickly. Goes back to " pay me now or pay me later"

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by robmac

I would be careful changing your ring and pinion on your own. If you don't get your lash and preload correct you are going to have a nightmare very quickly. Goes back to " pay me now or pay me later"

But it does not take a rocket scientist to determine this, heck we were able to do it and that is saying alot. But you are correct, if you are not mechinically inclined or can understand an installation manual than you are stuck making a super big investment into a minimal cost.

[fatlazyless]

The last time I owned a vehicle w/ an automatic transmission was in 1975. Every vehicle, mostly pickup trucks and Volvo 240's, since then has had a stick shift w/ a clutch pedal.

So, anyone know what the rear end gear ratio on my f150 is?

Also, don't you avoid all the hullabaloo of overdrive controls and automatic tranny probs w/ towing by driv'n a manual. You don't even need a tach....you can totally shift by engine sound....like when the engine starts to lug....it's in too high a gear.

It seems like vehicles with manual tranny's lose a lot of value as a used vehicle because no one wants to buy it, so they sit around unsold. As a used car buyer, that's a good thing, and you just drive it till it gets junked to that Bullseye recycle car biz in Laconia up the Rt 106 hillside.

Ever been to Bullseye? No matter what you have for a junker, the boss will say something like "sorry, I am not authorized to pay more than $100 for a vehicle like yours, plus the haul-a-way charge was worth $75."

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The last time I owned a vehicle w/ an automatic transmission was in 1975. Every vehicle, mostly pickup trucks and Volvo 240's, since then has had a stick shift w/ a clutch pedal.

So, anyone know what the rear end gear ratio on my f150 is?

If you ever have question about your F150, go here: http://www.f150forum.com

What year is your truck?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

All this talk had me curious of best way to tell for sure what my ratios actually are on my elderly Expeditions. A search of some Ford forums found this answer to the question.

Quote:Crawl under the rear of the SUV. There will be 2 metal tags on the rear diff cover. 1 has the recommended gear weight oil (such as 75W140), and the 2nd will have the gear ratio. For example, 3 73 or 4 10. If it has a limited slip rear diff (most with trailer tow do), it will read 3L37 or 4L10. I hope this helps... Quote

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The last time I owned a vehicle w/ an automatic transmission was in 1975. Every vehicle, mostly pickup trucks and Volvo 240's, since then has had a stick shift w/ a clutch pedal.

So, anyone know what the rear end gear ratio on my f150 is?

Also, don't you avoid all the hullabaloo of overdrive controls and automatic tranny probs w/ towing by driv'n a manual. You don't even need a tach....you can totally shift by engine sound....like when the engine starts to lug....it's in too high a gear.

It seems like vehicles with manual tranny's lose a lot of value as a used vehicle because no one wants to buy it, so they sit around unsold. As a used car buyer, that's a good thing, and you just drive it till it gets junked to that Bullseye recycle car biz in Laconia up the Rt 106 hillside.

Ever been to Bullseye? No matter what you have for a junker, the boss will say something like "sorry, I am not authorized to pay more than $100 for a vehicle like yours, plus the haul-a-way charge was worth $75."

I prefer a stick too, and my two daily drivers (car and motorcycle) have manual transmissions. I also drive stuff until it reaches the magic $750 (seems to be the minimum price of a functional vehicle) value on craigslist, boats excluded.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I prefer a stick too, and my two daily drivers (car and motorcycle) have manual transmissions. I also drive stuff until it reaches the magic $750 (seems to be the minimum price of a functional vehicle) value on craigslist, boats excluded.

I will drive my 99 F250 with 7.3 diesel and 6 speed manual into the ground. I love my manual tranny, however, it just came out of the tranny shop though with 4 missing teeth on the 6th speed ring gear. Fortunately we could fix it- a reman is $4K.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I prefer a stick too, and my two daily drivers (car and motorcycle) have manual transmissions. I also drive stuff until it reaches the magic $750 (seems to be the minimum price of a functional vehicle) value on craigslist, boats excluded.

When was the last time you bought a used car? Good luck finding a vehicle that can pass a legitimate inspection for $750 that does not need mechanical work. Hats off too you if you can do it.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

When was the last time you bought a used car? Good luck finding a vehicle that can pass a legitimate inspection for $750 that does not need mechanical work. Hats off too you if you can do it.

I bought a used car in 2006. It was a year old. I sold my 14 year-old car for $750 a week later. It ran fine and had passed inspection 2 months prior. I realize I probably could have got more for it, but it was easy to sell at $750. It had pretty bad rust on the body seams between the rockers and the floor pan, which was fully disclosed to the buyer. I did not want to be in an accident in it.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

When was the last time you bought a used car? Good luck finding a vehicle that can pass a legitimate inspection for $750 that does not need mechanical work. Hats off too you if you can do it.

LP, I think Dave meant he keeps his rides until he figures he can only get 750 for them on Craig's List then he buys another year or 2 "new to him" vehicle. Sounds like a good plan to me.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

LP, I think Dave meant he keeps his rides until he figures he can only get 750 for them on Craig's List then he buys another year or 2 "new to him" vehicle. Sounds like a good plan to me.

I think it's awesome if he can do it. I tried for a few years to get smaller junkers for the summer months to keep the miles off my newer vehicles and save gas. Never had any luck with the super cheapos as I seem to end up with cars that are continuos money pits so I abandoned the efforts.

Maybe if I drove fewer miles I could get by doing it.

[Dave R]

I don't buy old or worn out cars; those are the ones I sell. I have no problem buying new or nearly new, I just keep them for more than a decade and sell them when they reach the point of diminishing returns.

My 1999 Durango could last 20 years; the body, frame, and drivetrain have been remarkably robust, except for rust on the body seams at the rocker panel/floor pan and the front bumper, both of which I took care of early and keep a close eye on. The brake lines were crappy from the factory and I replaced all of them. It does not rack up many miles becuase I do not commute with it.

My 2005 Matrix will hit 100,000 miles today and has never had a failure. I expect a good 10 to 15 years from it.

My 2001 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R has just under 80,000 miles. I expect it to go 100,000 before it will need new valves. The rest of it has held up well and I intend to get a complete cylinder head for it for <$100 rather than change valves, when the time comes. I think I could get 20 years out of it.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jmen24

All in all, if you can replace brakes on your own vehicle, you can change the gears yourself, it is cheaper than Dave R's tire swap idea (which is a good one as well).

Cannot see how it's cheaper. My tire swap cost me $75 (for extra rims). Tires are a wear item and need to be replaced routinely regardless of how many sets I own. Having two sets just means I can go twice as long before buying new tires, but I have to buy twice as many, so zero sum. Ring and pinion gears usually last the life of the vehicle.

My tire swap plan does not work for those that wish to go off-roading though, it's only good for towing, drag racing, or SUV autocross, if there is such a thing...

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

WOW, who bent you over for that!!! Material cost per axle is under $200 for a full size chevy, ford with standard stock axles. Takes about three to four hours per axle for one person TOPS.

Jmen;

A local transmission shop in Manchester did the work. This was after pricing it out at a couple places. The local dealer wanted more!! At the current $95.00 per hour labor rate it does not take long for repair work to add up. More power to you if you have the time and ability to do it yourself. I do not have either...

Dan

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Jmen;

A local transmission shop in Manchester did the work. This was after pricing it out at a couple places. The local dealer wanted more!! At the current $95.00 per hour labor rate it does not take long for repair work to add up. More power to you if you have the time and ability to do it yourself. I do not have either...

Dan

Dan
I was not calling you out, I do not have the time or the desire to do these types of repairs anymore myself, so I would really be in the same boat as you. Even knowing how to do it, not having a place (garage) or the time. I no longer sink money into the money pits that are off road rigs so it has been some time. I just cannot believe that is the price they are getting for that kind of repair.

Jmen24

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Dan
I was not calling you out, I do not have the time or the desire to do these types of repairs anymore myself, so I would really be in the same boat as you. Even knowing how to do it, not having a place (garage) or the time. I no longer sink money into the money pits that are off road rigs so it has been some time. I just cannot believe that is the price they are getting for that kind of repair.

Jmen24

Jmen;

No problem, I didn't think you were calling me out.

It's very hard to find competent auto mechanic work these days. The dealerships just want to sell you new cars and the prices they charge for simple service work such as brakes and even oil changes are just ridiculous! Many local shops don't even have the equipment to properly repair many of today's computer related issues.

The good news is newer vehicles certainly last longer these days. We are getting close to 300,000 miles life expectancy on most of our (Chevy) gas vans and P.U. trucks.

Sorry to stray off topic...

Dan

[fishon]

Hi there Im quit new on this furm. And what I have read on this tread is a loght of good arguments about this. Firts off by the proper truck for the towing that you are going to do. I will try to be as frank as posable. There is aloght of auto trams out there ford,dodge and gm will all drag a boat around. 2x4's,4x4's 1/2 ton-1ton trucks. Gearing from 3.05-4.88 will work, standerd trans are what I pefore. From 4 cyl to the diesle power. Be smarter then the car dealer!! I have 2 diesle trucks and 1 gaser, I drag every thing from my littel 14 ft jon to my 34 ft fifth wheel. My gaser has 3.55 so that truck only drags my small jon an my 18 ft smokercraft. The only truck of mine the have 4.11 is my 1997 ford F-350 power strok and the 97 dodge has a cummins with 3.55 gears. I,m not trying to seal disele over gas power. If you are consered about fuel milleg then just keep your older rig. I am speking from expperence. I bot a new chevy back in 2007 2500 with a 6.0L and a 5 speed the stecker sead 19 hy and this was with 3.73s gess what i got for mills! 14 hy not pulling a thing. I was not happy at all sold that gas bunr.


And for the ones hear having problems with your auto repair shop i would look for a shop that can do the work.

[SIKSUKR]

Tht waz sum very goud adfice.

[jmen24]

SIK, my side hurts after that.

Who says texting is not bad for the English language.

[BroadHopper]

My son-in-law bought a 2009 3/4 ton club cab with trailer tow package. It has the flexfuel option. He is in Mass. and was able to fill the tank with E85. He felt a loss of power when towing and didn't think it was worth the extra price. He switch back to gas and the truck did not run right since. Just did not have the pep it had and it started up with a few more cranks. The dealer couldn't find the problem and it could not be fixed. Anyone had the same problem?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

My son-in-law bought a 2009 3/4 ton club cab with trailer tow package. It has the flexfuel option. He is in Mass. and was able to fill the tank with E85. He felt a loss of power when towing and didn't think it was worth the extra price. He switch back to gas and the truck did not run right since. Just did not have the pep it had and it started up with a few more cranks. The dealer couldn't find the problem and it could not be fixed. Anyone had the same problem?

BH,

What exactly has the dealer done? I have been very skeptical of this whole flex fuel idea.... my guess, is that the plugs should all be replaced in the truck for starters, now that he is back to running regular gas and I assume has run through many tank fulls.... I would also run something like Star-tron through the fuel system as well.

After your son-in-law I know of no one that has tried E85......

[robmac]

You need to make sure when going from E85 to Ethanol enriched fuel that you run the tank down low enough that when you fill it up the PCM can verify the sample accurately. Having a brain cramp right now but I think depending on tank size run it down to 1/4 then fill.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

BH,

What exactly has the dealer done? I have been very skeptical of this whole flex fuel idea.... my guess, is that the plugs should all be replaced in the truck for starters, now that he is back to running regular gas and I assume has run through many tank fulls.... I would also run something like Star-tron through the fuel system as well.

After your son-in-law I know of no one that has tried E85......

Talk to my son-in-law and the dealer did a complete engine diagnosis after upgrading the ECM. They told him to make sure the tank is completely empty before changing fuel. Even if he has to 'run out of gas'. LOL! The dealer doesn't appear to have confidence in the flex fuel ability of the truck.

Most folks with flexfuel trucks pretty much stayed with gas because of the price and the rumors around that there is power loss with ethanol.

[BroadHopper]

First of all if you really want a tow vehicle, buy a truck with the factory tow package. I had tooo many salespeople tell me that putting a 'UHaul' tow hitch on a truck is the same thing. It is not. A lot is involved in a tow package. Beyond the wiring harness and heavy duty flasher, you need a bigger battery and alternator. You will get an oil cooler and a transmission cooler as well. Most tow packages comes with a 3.90 rear end and the ability to switch out of overdrive.

If you need to order your vehicle, I would suggest increasing you payload rating to 2000# and the big 6X9 Fold away mirrors. Any mechanic will tell you, for towing, there is nothing like a V8.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

First of all if you really want a tow vehicle, buy a truck with the factory tow package. I had tooo many salespeople tell me that putting a 'UHaul' tow hitch on a truck is the same thing. It is not. A lot is involved in a tow package. Beyond the wiring harness and heavy duty flasher, you need a bigger battery and alternator. You will get an oil cooler and a transmission cooler as well. Most tow packages comes with a 3.90 rear end and the ability to switch out of overdrive.

If you need to order your vehicle, I would suggest increasing you payload rating to 2000# and the big 6X9 Fold away mirrors. Any mechanic will tell you, for towing, there is nothing like a V8.

Mine has a factory tow package and that did not include the gear upgrade.

I dont think most tow packages come with 4.10s.

GH

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Mine has a factory tow package and that did not include the gear upgrade.

I dont think most tow packages come with 4.10s.

GH

You are correct, 4.10s are a very low gear, unless you are running oversized tires, you will being running super high RPMs just to maintain speed at 55. Your vehicle from the factory would have a different ratio in the tranny and the final gear may or may not need to be changed.

Some of us ran 4.10s on the full size rigs with 33"-36" tires, the smaller rigs ran 4.53s with the same size. Gear ratios need to be balanced with the torque output from the engine, tranny and transfer case package, if not you are just hurting the vehicle in the long run. There are swings that you can move up and down in almost any vehicle modification before you have to change something else to keep it all balanced. Taking a truck with 3.08s and putting in 4.10s will pop the motor or tranny right quick. Typically one gear up or down is ok depending on how hard you intend to use.