2008 Coast Guard Statistics

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Yes they should if they are used on NH Lake's and Pond's during the summer time.... and I don't think it's such a bad idea on the highways either.

Are you one of those people that stays in the left lane on the highway, even if you are not passing anyone?

[Airwaves]

So in 2008 there were 96,205 boats registered in NH, 28 accidents, 17 injuries and 2 deaths.

Considering the average family size in NH is 3.01 persons meaning 295,770 people were probable boaters on NH waters not including out of state registered boats that enjoy our lakes.

I'd say that is a damn good record of safety!

[Kamper]

I drove U-Haul truck with a governor on it a couple times. If I'd needed to hit the gas to avoid an accident I'd have been screwed even if it were below the max speed. The gizmo seemed to assume that anything over a certain rev limit must be speeding and down-shifted to the lowest gear (automatic transmission).

On a boat it might not know the difference between high-cruise and hole-shot either. Same danger with trying to get out of some Bonehead's way.

To those citing the Coast Guard data, I hate to burst your bubble, but the fatalities are categorized by the speed of the boat the victim was in...usually the slower-moving smaller boat, such as the kayaker who got run over by a speeding performance boat. Since the kayaker was standing still, that fatality is listed as "0-10 MPH". The speed of the speedboat is not recorded unless one of its passengers was killed too. This might seem obvious, given that it is hard for someone standing still to cause a deadly collision, so seeing all those deaths at 0-10MPH should have clued.
I have no idea how they categorize when they don't know the speed, like if some one had been killed int he striking boat when Mr. Hartman was killed. Maybe they just use the speed that the striking boater says he was going. In that case, the death would have been in the 20-30MPH bracket because that is the speed Littlefield claimed to have been going.


Speaking of the Hartman death, doesn't this fatal NJ accident sound very similar?;
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/show....php?p=1913240

[Airwaves]

It's almost like elchase is disappointed that there have not been high speed accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee that he can point to so he resorts to trying to cast a negative light on the USCG stats (what do they know anyway!) and troll for out of state accidents to prove his point.

Only 28 accidents in NH in 2008 (pre-speed limit) with 96,205 boats registered in NH and how many thousands more from out of state?
That shows me that NH is very safe and Winnipesaukee in particular is a safe place to boat.

In 2008 what rules were in place?
Speed limits? Nope.
Mandatory eduction? Yes.

Go figure!

Here's two boats each going 100MPH when they collided. Of course, almost everyone died...five out of six. Maybe they were drunk or not keeping a proper lookout, thereby making their speeds irrelevant (WINK). Thankfully, this can't happen on Winnipesaukee where it is illegal to go that fast;

http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/3900121.html

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by elchase

Here's two boats each going 100MPH when they collided. Of course, almost everyone died...five out of six. Maybe they were drunk or not keeping a proper lookout, thereby making their speeds irrelevant (WINK). Thankfully, this can't happen on Winnipesaukee where it is illegal to go that fast;

http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/3900121.html

In most sponsored Poker Runs, it IS illegal to go that fast. More and more major poker runs have rules as to speed, NO Alcohol, none of this and none of that. Do you seriously think that if there were a speed limit the end result would be different? How does this accident compare to the 22' Crownline bowrider that ran into a barge killing several people?

You're beginning to show a lack of knowledge, or at least a lack of focus El.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by elchase

Here's two boats each going 100MPH when they collided. Of course, almost everyone died...five out of six. Maybe they were drunk or not keeping a proper lookout, thereby making their speeds irrelevant (WINK). Thankfully, this can't happen on Winnipesaukee where it is illegal to go that fast;

http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/3900121.html

So that must mean that all of these other states don't have speed limits?

Or that the cars passing me on 93 today were not really speeding because it is illegal to go that fast?

[Resident 2B]

For the record, it has been against NH law for many years to be going over head-way speed, 6 mph, when within 150 feet of another boat or point of land. The existing law makes this illegal operation! No need for a Speed Limit here as it was already against the existing law.

In fact all the flooding, fear-mongering recent posts by elchase refer to accidents that involve operation that violate laws that preexist the speed limit law here in NH.

The only things being proven are: A) The preexisting laws would have worked in all cases; B) therefore, what is the real value of the current Speed Limit law in these non-NH accidents?; C) perhaps elchase should be working at the national level pushing the proven NH 150 foot headway speed law; D) the Winfabs' fear campaign is still blowing smoke at anyone naive enough to listen without thinking.

R2B

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

The charts that I posted were from the USCG link that chipj29 gave us. Pages 19 and 20 of the pdf file. He only gave the top five primary contributing factors in accidents.But here is again: http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

Actually, I did state it specifically in my post. You musta missed it:

Originally Posted by chipj29

I just did some browsing on the Coast Guards web page.
http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

In 2008, the Coast Guard counted 4789 accidents involving 709 deaths, 3331 injuries. Some snippets from the report:

-10 percent of the deaths occurred on boats where the operator had received boating safety instruction.

-The top five primary contributing factors in accidents:
1. Careless/reckless operation
2. Operator inattention
3. No proper lookout
4. Operator inexperience
5. Passenger/skier behavior
It should be noted that "Excessive Speed" is 7th on the list, with "Machinery Failure" ranking higher.

-Alcohol use is the leading contributing factor in fatal boating accidents; it was listed as the leading factor in 17% of the deaths.

Click the link and see the stats for yourselves. Figures never lie.

It should also be noted that an accident that was caused by a boat going more than 6 MPH in a no-wake zone could be considered to be "Excessive speed". OMG look out for that big bad bass boat going 10 MPH through the NWZ!!
Before you say it elchase or sunset, I am not condoning speeding in NWZ's.

Guys, Don't forget that the speeds listed are those of the VICTIMs. How often is the VICTIM speeding? If I'm anchored in my 21-footer and get run over by a speeding 40-foot 7-ton cigarette boat who kills me and continues on, wondering what that noise was, the CG is going to list this as a 0-10MPH fatality and "excessive speed" is never going to be connected. If I am pulling my 12-yr old grandson on a tube at 18 MPH and some kid in a 38-foot Savage slices him in half with his 5-blade 32-pitch prop, his death will be listed as 10-20 MPH and "excessive speed" is never going to be connected. Only in the rare case where the speed of the STRIKING BOAT is known or admitted and one of ITS passengers gets killed will it be listed in the category you guys recognize as caused by excessive speed.

While the driver of in this crash was sober, the FIVE who were KILLED had been drinking, so according to this cult, this somehow forgives the high speed. After all, it's ok to go really fast, as long as you are drunk too;
http://www.pontevedrarecorder.com/content/996_1.php

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by elchase

Guys, Don't forget that the speeds listed are those of the VICTIMs. How often is the VICTIM speeding? If I'm anchored in my 21-footer and get run over by a speeding 40-foot 7-ton cigarette boat who kills me and continues on, wondering what that noise was, the CG is going to list this as a 0-10MPH fatality and "excessive speed" is never going to be connected. If I am pulling my 12-yr old grandson on a tube at 18 MPH and some kid in a 38-foot Savage slices him in half with his 5-blade 32-pitch prop, his death will be listed as 10-20 MPH and "excessive speed" is never going to be connected. Only in the rare case where the speed of the STRIKING BOAT is known or admitted and one of ITS passengers gets killed will it be listed in the category you guys recognize as caused by excessive speed.

Spin.

Originally Posted by elchase

While the driver of in this crash was sober, the FIVE who were KILLED had been drinking, so according to this cult, this somehow forgives the high speed. After all, it's ok to go really fast, as long as you are drunk too;
http://www.pontevedrarecorder.com/content/996_1.php

Fear Mongering.

Show me where they cited speed in this accident? I must have missed that.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Spin.



Fear Mongering.

Show me where they cited speed in this accident? I must have missed that.

Don't expect a response from him as he is only limited to 5 posts per day, really should be one or none since all he is doing is boring all of us with the same old stories. Probably has also bored the legislature to which he is pandering to.

[Airwaves]

I find it very telling that in his quest to search the world for boating accidents elchase and his backers have failed to address the issue starring them directly in the face in this thread.

In 2008, last year, 96,205 registered boats in NH. 28 accidents. That works out to a percentage of boats involved in accidents...AFTER MANDATORY EDUCATION was the law but BEFORE SPEED LIMITS, to 29 thousandths of one percent (0.00029)

Anyone that has taken the time to examine the issue on its merits and not cover their ears and eyes knows that all speed limits is doing it taxing the resources of the NHMP at a time when their finances are already falling.

This law needs to sunset!

Originally Posted by Airwaves

In 2008 ... 28 accidents.

Also in 2008, the president of NHFBA crashed into a Winnipesaukee island on plane at night killing her best friend. Then we enacted a Speed Limit. In 2009 there was not a single high speed crash or speed-related fatality on Lake Winnipesaukee. Coincidence? Don't you wish we could get the same instant gratification out of all of our laws?

Look at all these boating accidents and deaths. Why can't people just agree to a reasonable speed limit so all the carnage can end?;
http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/boa...tag/collision/

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by elchase

Also in 2008, the president of NHFBA crashed into a Winnipesaukee island on plane at night killing her best friend. Then we enacted a Speed Limit. In 2009 there was not a single high speed crash or speed-related fatality on Lake Winnipesaukee. Coincidence? Don't you wish we could get the same instant gratification out of all of our laws?

Look at all these boating accidents and deaths. Why can't people just agree to a reasonable speed limit so all the carnage can end?;
http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/boa...tag/collision/

What does "on plane" mean?

[BroadHopper]

From what law? People break laws every day!

[Misty Blue]

Vita Bene...

I hope that what you said was "toung and cheek".

Do not, Do NOT EVER dis the United States Coast Guard. I have been a member for almost 20 years and there are no more dedicated, heroic men and women in the world. There is no one on the planet that knows more about boating safety, navigation and operation then the Coasite.

Next to them the NHMP are rookies.

As I said, I hope that what you said was "Just in Jest".

Misty Blue.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by elchase

Also in 2008, the president of NHFBA crashed into a Winnipesaukee island on plane at night killing her best friend. Then we enacted a Speed Limit. In 2009 there was not a single high speed crash or speed-related fatality on Lake Winnipesaukee. Coincidence? Don't you wish we could get the same instant gratification out of all of our laws?

Look at all these boating accidents and deaths. Why can't people just agree to a reasonable speed limit so all the carnage can end?;
http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/boa...tag/collision/

Prior to 2009, when was the last "high speed crash" or "speed-related fatality"? Please be specific.

[Airwaves]

chipj29 I think we can give it up. Elchase has no interest in looking at evidence to back up his hysteria! His last post proves that he wants his law and the facts be damned!

NH waters are among the safest in the country, period! We have all seen the USCG statistics for NH linked above, looked at the accident rate vs the number of boats registered here and yet it means nothing to Elchase.

I just want to remind everyone of Skip's LINK TO A NHMP PRESS RELEASE back in August that points out NH waters are the safest in New England!

All this BEFORE speed limits and AFTER mandatory boater education!

None of that matters to Elchase...he wants it so the facts be damned!

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

chipj29

None of that matters to Elchase...he wants it so the facts be damned!

Kind of like your having accused EL of illegal fishing?

Originally Posted by chipj29

Prior to 2009, when was the last "high speed crash" or "speed-related fatality"? Please be specific.

I answered you here http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=220
and here http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=197, and will add another below. There are many more, but you really need to learn how to use the internet for yourself.

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Elchase has no interest in looking at evidence to back up his hysteria!

You of all people should know to hold your stones...yours is the most fragile glass house on the forum. You have proven to be a whacko with that illegal fishing post and your refusal to back down. You too should step back, change your screen name, and start over fresh. Everything you say on these forums is mud since you were exposed in that thread. And I thought you had me on ignore?

Here's another one;
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/884295/detail.html
2 Men Injured When Boat Slammed Into Eagle Island
Men Treated For Minor Injuries
Two men are recovering Monday after a boat collision on Lake Winnipesaukee.
Marine patrol reports that early Sunday morning, a boat left the Weirs and slammed into Eagle Island while driving extremely fast.
Two men from Massachusetts, who were passengers on the boat, were brought by ambulance to Lakes Region General Hospital to be treated for cuts to the head and minor injuries.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by elchase

To those citing the Coast Guard data, I hate to burst your bubble, but the fatalities are categorized by the speed of the boat the victim was in...usually the slower-moving smaller boat, such as the kayaker who got run over by a speeding performance boat.

In every accident with fatality resulting, I've always seen the speed of the Offending boat. I can't imagine that the sailboat's stand-still speed was used in the accident stat instead of the off-duty officer's Speeding boat that ran into him.

Excessive Speed is always characterized in accident's meaning the speed of the offender.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by elchase

To those citing the Coast Guard data, I hate to burst your bubble, but the fatalities are categorized by the speed of the boat the victim was in...usually the slower-moving smaller boat, such as the kayaker who got run over by a speeding performance boat. Since the kayaker was standing still, that fatality is listed as "0-10 MPH". The speed of the speedboat is not recorded unless one of its passengers was killed too. This might seem obvious, given that it is hard for someone standing still to cause a deadly collision, so seeing all those deaths at 0-10MPH should have clued. ...

Clue: not all accidents, injuries or fatalities are the result of collisions and not all accidents resulted in reportable injuries or fatalities.

Ever been in a sailboat at the dock when the sail fills with wind and the boom swings over the boat clobbering anyone in the path? Just one example. There are many more accidents involving boats not moving or traveling less than 10 mph that have no involvement with speeding boats. Ever been in a rowboat when the oar slips out of the oarlock and smashes a passenger? Tip over in a canoe or kayak? Get a foot caught in an anchor line as it is deployed... and etc..

I'm sure you hate bursting bubbles . Let's look at the other data from the USCG statistics.

How about the other category, VESSELS INVOLVED.
Let's look at the number of ALL recreational boats Involved in accidents. Remember this is for all bodies of water, lakes, oceans, rivers and etc.

917 boats NOT MOVING were involved in accidents.

1522 boats traveling under 10 mph were INVOLVED in accidents.

1064 boats traveling between 10 and 20 mph were involved in accidents.

970 incidents involved boats going between 21 and 30 mph.

Only 176 boats going over 40 mph were involved in accidents (I'll bet some of those were under the Speed Limit of 45 mph).

1698 boats with unknown speeds were involved in accidents.

6347 TOTAL boats involved in accidents in all known and unknown speed categories.

So, removing the fatality and injury reporting provisions these statistics indicate that speed is NOT involved with the vast majority of boating accidents.

Q.E.D.

See the chart again, if you wish, HERE.