Island Camp / Snowmobile Camp

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by ossipeeboater

I had an issue with my heat going out this past winter, ended up blowing out several lines because my faucets were not open to give the water places to expand so after you shut off the pump if your not going to gravity drain all the pipes I'd open all the faucets in the house and put the red antifreeze in the traps and toilet so that if you do have a freeze it doesn't burst anything.

Just having your faucets open will not prevent your pipes from bursting. Opening the faucet will allow for the water drain all the way back to the drain opening. Water when frozen expands in all directions not just along its length (in a pipe), it will also expand in its circumfrence, this is what will cause your pipes to burst. To illustrate this, imagine not putting anti-freeze in your trap, one side of the trap is always exposed to unrestricted air, the other to a vented plumbing network (still unrestricted air) that trap will still burst in this event as the surface of the trap water freezes it will expand in its circumfrence and burst the trap.

The second cause for a burst pipe is pressure build-up from a ice plug. You turn the water system on, the system pressurizes and blows out a fitting or a hydronic baseboard pipe (1/2 the thickness of supply pipe). This plug is caused by a holding spot for water or a point in which cold blasts of air have direct access to the water pipe hot or cold (my example in above post). You can leave your faucet open if you want to but the physics of water expansion say that you are not gaining the benefit you desire.

The reason that your pipes burst is because you have a holding spot for water that cannot exit the system, this probably occured in either a long run of pipe attached to floor framing or at a joint connection. This is almost impossible to prevent with copper or PVC piping. PEX is incredibly resistent to bursting, the connections and manifold are not.

[Old Hubbard Rd]

Make sure you have a smoke and carbon dioxide detector!!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Old Hubbard Rd

Make sure you have a smoke and carbon dioxide detector!!

a carbon monoxide detector.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

a carbon monoxide detector.

Got both!

Thanks!

Dan

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Might be worth pouring a bit of non toxic RV anti freeze into the sink trap and toilet when you leave, just in case.

If your water line runs to the lake, do you heat the line all the way? Does the ice move and risk taking the line with it?

One of the things we found heating a cold camp in the spring and fall was that it takes a lot of BTU to raise the temperature of the mass of the structure. It can take a while if you don't have a lot of excess heating capacity.

Enjoy the extended season.

[Lake Fan]

We use our island camp for several ice fishing/snowmobiling weekends and long weekends over the winter months. We take the "low-tech" approach. We dip water from the lake, keep a big pot of hot water on the stove for washing up, and we do our "business" out in the woods, or flush with a bucket of water in the toilet. A bit of RV antifreeze down the traps when we leave solves the freezing problem. Keep the wood fire going, lots of blankets on hand, and a big bottle of scotch handy for medicinal reasons...it doesn't get much better than winter out on the island.

[ApS]

Depending on how much of your camp's exposure is to the north (and construction type and proven quality), 40° may not be enough heat.

I don't have the additional concerns about island living AND winter, but was going to write pretty much what Lake Fan wrote. (Except that one's judgement—upon alcohol consumption—adds to the risks of winter's extremes, isolation, and snowmobiling).

A widespread grid blackout, as in 2003, could ruin a lot of planning. (Or even a smaller local blackout—or a utility pole that "falls over" ).

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

We use our island camp for several ice fishing/snowmobiling weekends and long weekends over the winter months. We take the "low-tech" approach. We dip water from the lake, keep a big pot of hot water on the stove for washing up, and we do our "business" out in the woods, or flush with a bucket of water in the toilet. A bit of RV antifreeze down the traps when we leave solves the freezing problem. Keep the wood fire going, lots of blankets on hand, and a big bottle of scotch handy for medicinal reasons...it doesn't get much better than winter out on the island.

The above is basically what we do as well. We melt the snow on the stove for use in the "facilities" (you know, if it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown flush it down.) We leave multiple gallons of spring water in a tote in the tub. It really doesn't take long to thaw. Use one toilet and one sink, re-winterize upon leaving and no worries. No matter how well insulated you think things are, too many things can go wrong. You need to have the mindset that the power will go out for an extended period (in my case that means "see you after iceout" from the power company) or that there is never safe enough ice to get to your destination. JMO

BT

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

We use our island camp for several ice fishing/snowmobiling weekends and long weekends over the winter months. We take the "low-tech" approach. We dip water from the lake, keep a big pot of hot water on the stove for washing up, and we do our "business" out in the woods, or flush with a bucket of water in the toilet. A bit of RV antifreeze down the traps when we leave solves the freezing problem. Keep the wood fire going, lots of blankets on hand, and a big bottle of scotch handy for medicinal reasons...it doesn't get much better than winter out on the island.

In addition to lots of blankets on hand, we have found that an electric mattress pad heater can make a cold bed a bit more civilized for our early spring or late fall nights at camp.
http://www.amazon.com/Westpoint-Stev.../dp/B0002CRJQ4

[LakeSnake]

Also make sure you check the alarm temperature of the freeze alarm. Some are fixed at a certain temperature, some you can adjust the alarm temperature. I would recommend you set the heat at about 10 degrees higher than the alarm temp. of the freeze alarm. For example the freeze alarm activates the alarm at 40 degrees – I recommend you set the heat in the house at 50 degrees. This will allow for some variation in temperature due to placement of the freeze alarm vs the house thermostat, harsh temperature drops during a storm or on real cold nights as well as short power outage. It may take some trial and error to get it right depending on your particular situation – so you may get a few “false” alarms if the temperature setting differential is to close.

All taken from practical personal experience.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Lake Snake brings up a good point. Our old fridge would not work in the cold weather. A bit of internet research uncovered the advice to keep a light bulb burning near the compressor. (That is if you keep it going during the away periods)

Something we do all the time with regards to the fact that we may have had an extended power failure while we were gone is to place an ice cube on the freezer shelf rack. When we return, if the cube is intact, we know the food in the freezer is still good. Sometimes low tech is good enough.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Something we do all the time with regards to the fact that we may have had an extended power failure while we were gone is to place an ice cube on the freezer shelf rack. When we return, if the cube is intact, we know the food in the freezer is still good. Sometimes low tech is good enough.

Our refrigerator eats ice over a period of time. In a months time, ice cube trays that were full will shrink down to less than half in size. One cube in mine may just disappear.

I may have to go back to Mr. Wizard experiments and try it out in my unit. Good idea.

You could also freeze water in a bottle half full, and once frozen, put an item with weight to it, like a marble or a nut for a bolt in the bottle on top of the ice, and if the nut is still on the top of the ice, all may be well with the food.

[wifi]

I suspect the difference in these freezers is due to the frost free cycle. The warming/cooling cycles also adds the freezer 'taste' as it extracts water from the items contained.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

... an electric mattress pad heater can make a cold bed a bit more civilized ...

I've also found heating pads to be more effective than an electric blanket.

Another technique you can do is to insulate the windows. Those cheap plastic film kits have wide following. You do end up with tack holes in the window frames and recycling them requires some careful handling. I prefer foam insulating panels (not the naked styrofoam though, too messy). You can get them in a variety of thicknesses.

Some already have a coating on them and others you could add a layer of contact paper to improve the apearance if you are so inclined. They are easily concealed behind curtains so the "boss's" sensibilities won't be upset.

You can cut it to fit any size doorway or window. You can do a partial window for some light or take a piece out of the center. I have small bits of plexi in the celler window pieces. Last year I added a piece of 2 inch between the celler door and the bulkhead, I could really feel the difference there.

I don't have a camp so I am talking about my experience in my year around house in Merrimack. This will be my 3rd year and I believe the job paid for itself the first year. I leave most of the panels in during the summer too, to save on cooling expenses.

Good luck!

[ishoot308]

I want to thank everyone for all your responses.

After meeting with Steve from Island Support and reviewing all your concerns and recommendations I have decided to use the camp but will not be turning on or using any water.

I will simply turn the heat on when I get here and shut it off when I leave. The camp will remain winterized from November till spring. This seems to be the best and safest method to ensure no problems occur.

The biggest factor that made up my mind is electricity...There is simply no way to safeguard for a long term power outage on the island. A backup generator will only run for so many days until fuel is exhausted.

Thanks again!

Dan