Sound Levels in relation to Speed Limits

[OCDACTIVE]

In another thread we got off on a tangent that I thought would be good to have as its very own discussion.

I have found that many "supporters" of the speed limits are only in favor of them because it will limit the noise they can make.

How many of you feel that this is true?

Also how many people would be in support of allowing for switchable exhaust?

The hard part with lowering the Decible level overall is that there are pretty regular standards nation wide in which manufactors have developed mufflers to suit these standards. So it may be easy to say "lets lower them another 5 dcb" but harder to do because there may not be products that can be purchased for all types of boats and engines.

Looking forward to seeing what people have to say.

[Dave R]

I suspect most speed limit supporters would not change their minds at all if boats were silent.

I'd like to legalize switchable exhaust, ONLY if it passes the noise standards in both modes. I want it either quiet, or pleasantly throaty/rumbly. I strongly dislike obnoxiously loud exhaust (on anything: motorcycle, boat, car, generator, etc.).

[Lakegeezer]

GFBL boats are loud fast, and loud slow - so let them go fast so they are gone faster. Reason #8 for faster (or no) speed limits. There could be tighter noise limits. In the narrow channels, its kind of rude when they go by. Everyone outside has to stop talking till they are past.

[ITD]

I'm against the speed limit. But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by jrc

The "come for a test next week" law, was kind of a joke, right? If you were going to fail the test, you could always add mufflers for the test.

If this fixed the problem and now the boat was quiet, then great the law works. But some people would "borrow" mufflers for the test and a few days later be back to loud.

The new law allows a standing still test at idle. But can they do this on the spot? Or do they still need to schedule a test?

Personally I think there are two situations:

A boat comes from the factory with an exhaust system, the factory certifies that it produces a certain noise level. If this noise level is under the limits then done deal.

If you modify your exhaust, then you become the factory. You should have to have it measured before you put it on the lake.

While I totally understand what you are saying it is impossible to enforce your "factory standards" idea.

1. you would need to get all the factorys or manufactorers to agree to post this, which changes per order and engine.

2. you need to define factory. For example Four Winns, Baja etc are mass produced and can be made to order. My type of boat is only made to order, meaning there are no factory specs on the engine it is whatever the customer wants done.

As far as the come down and get tested, I don't know the exact wording but there was something about if you are stopped again with loud exhaust after then there is some other fine.

Frankly there is no real way to enforce. Many engines at idle are below the limits and you won't know until they are at power if they are above the max decible range. I personally think that most people will abide by the laws. No matter what law you put into place people will knowingly or unknowingly break them. So you might as well allow for those of us who are willing to "quiet" our boats more so with Switchable Exhaust.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by ITD

I'm against the speed limit. But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat.

While I understand your thoughts... I absolutely LOVE the sound of a loud engine. It is music to my ears to hear that power. Especially if the engine has a supercharger to give it the whine as well.

That being said I realize I am in the minority, so I have no problem putting on my mufflers and am also willing to go the step further and pay to have switchable exhaust put in. This would be great so when I am offshore I can pull the mufflers and have straight hull exhaust and not bother anyone.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

While I totally understand what you are saying it is impossible to enforce your "factory standards" idea.

The problem here are the older boats before standards. I have a 1978 with silent choice from the factory. I had to take out the switching mechanism per law. MP's still think it is switchable because they are not mechanically inclined. I had to take the whole mechanism out anyway because the DARPA units will not fit. DARPA was the quietest and least restricive in its days. Still EXPENSIVE! It is still loud so I carry the paper with me that I have pass the 'flyby' test off Timber Island several years ago. Every time I launch at Glendale, an MPO would come over.

My dad has an early 1940 Higgins race boat. It has an old aircraft engine. Now this is so loud, that we have to wear ear muffs. No way can you put mufflers on this baby! You would have to custom make 8 tiny mufflers for each exhaust! What is funny, I think because of its novelty. No one question the noise. Not even the MP.

That being the case. When was the standards set? What about boats maufactured before standards? Do the 'classics' have to adhere to the noise test? Judges will take off points when you add someting to your classic if it didn't exists in its day.

[BroadHopper]

To JRC.

Obvoiusly you know nothing about muffler installation. You cannot 'borrow' mufflers. It is expensive to install and remove. You have to remove the rubber sleeve between the exhaust pipe and engine and place the muffler in the rubber hose. It gets more complocated if you have water divertors in there. They will have to be remove.

The cheap mufflers that bolts on to the transom pipes are not quiet enough to pass the test.

The Formula 'silent choice' is probably the best in the industry. It is part of the swim platform. Don't know the mechanics behind it but it is not manually switchable so it pass the state test.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

To JRC.

Obvoiusly you know nothing about muffler installation. You cannot 'borrow' mufflers. It is expensive to install and remove. You have to remove the rubber sleeve between the exhaust pipe and engine and place the muffler in the rubber hose. It gets more complocated if you have water divertors in there. They will have to be remove.

The cheap mufflers that bolts on to the transom pipes are not quiet enough to pass the test.

The Formula 'silent choice' is probably the best in the industry. It is part of the swim platform. Don't know the mechanics behind it but it is not manually switchable so it pass the state test.

Sorry to throw a wrench in your comment but I have the Gibson Clamp on's.. They do get the boat quiet enough but they cost ALOT! well at least I thought they did $650 for a set, not installed, not including shipping..

If I brought this to a marina and asked for them to be put on... well over $1K I am sure.

But the old line you get what you pay for comes to mind.

However just switching them (even though they are clamp ons) is a project and a half.. I had to hammer mine on with a 2x4 and mini sledge hammer.. I don't know if I will ever get them off...

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Sorry to throw a wrench in your comment but I have the Gibson Clamp on's.. They do get the boat quiet enough but they cost ALOT! well at least I thought they did $650 for a set, not installed, not including shipping..

If I brought this to a marina and asked for them to be put on... well over $1K I am sure.

But the old line you get what you pay for comes to mind.

However just switching them (even though they are clamp ons) is a project and a half.. I had to hammer mine on with a 2x4 and mini sledge hammer.. I don't know if I will ever get them off...

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't been shopping for mufflers in a while. I'm sure there are better tecnology than 20 years ago.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't been shopping for mufflers in a while. I'm sure there are better tecnology than 20 years ago.

I do agree with you though... it isn't as simple as saying


"ooops I got stopped, I will throw these on then take them right off"

[4Fun]

What is the DB limit presently? How long has it been in effect? I wonder if most of the offensive boats out there don't even pass today's standards??

OCD, how do you know yours is within the limit?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

What is the DB limit presently? How long has it been in effect? I wonder if most of the offensive boats out there don't even pass today's standards??

OCD, how do you know yours is within the limit?

The number I believe is 86 db... Please don't quote me on that.

I can only go by a comparrison. One of my friends checkmate is the one that got stopped and had to go have the dock test and fly by test. He passed. He is a lot louder then I am. I can't give you my max # but I have hung out with MP's and they never questioned it once.

[BroadHopper]

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270
SUPERVISION OF NAVIGATION; REGISTRATION OF BOATS AND MOTORS; COMMON CARRIERS BY WATER
Motorboat Noise Levels
Section 270:37
270:37 Decibel Limits on Noise. –
I. No person may operate any boat powered by a marine engine manufactured before January 1, 1977, in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat.
II. No person may operate, sell, or offer for sale any marine engine for use in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the following noise levels measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat with which the engine is tested under RSA 270:39:
(a) For a marine engine manufactured in or before 1977, a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale.
(b) For a marine engine manufactured between January 1, 1978, and December 31, 1981, a noise level of 84 decibels on the "A' scale.
(c) For a marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1981, a noise level of 82 decibels on the "A' scale.
III. Noise levels in decibels shall be measured according to procedures established pursuant to rules adopted under RSA 270:39.
IV. The director or his agent may order the operator or owner of any boat which he reasonably believes is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the decibel limits contained in this section to subject his boat to noise level testing procedures as provided in this subdivision.
V. A boat owner or operator shall submit a boat which is the subject of an order by the director or his agent pursuant to RSA 270:37, IV to noise level testing by the director or his agent within 7 days of such an order. No person shall operate the boat after this 7-day period has expired until it is subjected to such noise level testing.
VI. The director or his agent may prohibit the operator or owner of any boat which fails a noise level testing procedure from operating the boat until the boat successfully passes the procedure. No person shall operate a boat contrary to such an order of the director.
VII. Pursuant to the penalties imposed under RSA 270:41-a, any person convicted of violating this section shall be fined not less than $100. No portion of any fine imposed under this section shall be suspended or reduced by the court.

[NoBozo]

Unless I am mistaken, "switchable" exhausts like Silent Choice..etc can only be used BELOW a certain engine RPM. They cannot be used "At Speed" without engine/exhaust system damage. So essentially they are only effective (usable) when putting around the docks. Get up on plane and you better open them up or pay the mechanical consequences.

But then again, I may be Out of Touch with the latest technology.. NB

[jrc]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

While I totally understand what you are saying it is impossible to enforce your "factory standards" idea.

1. you would need to get all the factorys or manufactorers to agree to post this, which changes per order and engine.....

This is already a NH law (not enforced very often)

270:38 Certification of Marine Engines. – Any marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1976 and offered for sale in this state shall be certified to the director as having been tested and found not to exceed the noise levels prescribed in RSA 270:37, I. An outboard motor shall be certified by the motor manufacturer. Any other marine engine shall be certified by the boat manufacturer if it is offered for sale in combination with a boat or by the engine manufacturer if it is not offered for sale in combination with a boat

[jrc]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

... I absolutely LOVE the sound of a loud engine. It is music to my ears to hear that power. Especially if the engine has a supercharger to give it the whine as well...

So do I, a lot of people do.

But as I said in the other thread, it sounds loud to you in front of the engines, with the exhaust 15 feet away, behind people, seats, engines and fiberglass, plus pointing away from you. Imagine how loud it sounds when I'm behind you with open exhaust pointing directly in my face and nothing but air and water between us.

BTW I'm not advocating lowering the limits, just enforcing the current laws.

[tis]

I love the sound too, but I suppose if every boat on the lake was above the 82db it would not be very pleasant. We had a 1992 boat we got in 1991. We drove it for years and never got stopped until '03 and were invited to go out to Timber Island. We weren't sure how loud it was, so had some work done to it before we went out but we flunked. After trying this and trying that, and about four Sunday morning trips out to Timber, we finally passsed. It was about $8000. later. I think we had to practically have the engine pulled out to finally fix it.
We still have the boat, but don't use it a lot. I love it, it is still my favorite boat and still love the sound although it is not as loud, of course. We also carry the paper in it, but have never been stopped again.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by jrc

This is already a NH law (not enforced very often)

270:38 Certification of Marine Engines. – Any marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1976 and offered for sale in this state shall be certified to the director as having been tested and found not to exceed the noise levels prescribed in RSA 270:37, I. An outboard motor shall be certified by the motor manufacturer. Any other marine engine shall be certified by the boat manufacturer if it is offered for sale in combination with a boat or by the engine manufacturer if it is not offered for sale in combination with a boat

I believe that is on new boats. Not private sales by individuals. No way to regulate that.

This is just to make sure dealers on the lake are not selling boats they know are too loud then having the person have to come back to bring them to standards.

just my thoughts.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Unless I am mistaken, "switchable" exhausts like Silent Choice..etc can only be used BELOW a certain engine RPM. They cannot be used "At Speed" without engine/exhaust system damage. So essentially they are only effective (usable) when putting around the docks. Get up on plane and you better open them up or pay the mechanical consequences.

But then again, I may be Out of Touch with the latest technology.. NB

You are correct. Below 1800 or 2000 RPMS.

This will not solve the problems 100%, but it could definately quiet down the docks and channels if it were allowed. I believe people should be able to have it as long as when it is not activated you still would pass the current sound standards.

I peronsonally would use mine all the time starting the boat... I have a 2 year old and my wife gets pretty ticked at me when I start her up during my son's nap time.

[Shreddy]

I love loud boat, bikes, trucks, snowmobiles, etc. My jet ski has an aftermarket exhaust system in it. It's all personal preference. My bike can also be heard from miles away as well as my snowmobile (well, up until last year). Point is, the sound of a loud exhaust will never be diminished. It has, and always will be, a personal preference. In general, the younger crowd loves to be loud. Those that hate it are usually older because I'm sure they've already enjoyed being loud in their days. I like to be loud because I love the sound, plus it brings attention to what I'm riding (which I take pride in). With that said, I don't think this problem will ever be resolved because even with a law, there is no proper way to get an accurate reading without pulling the boat out of the water. There are too many factors to offset the reading. Just my $.02 .

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

I love loud boat, bikes, trucks, snowmobiles, etc. My jet ski has an aftermarket exhaust system in it. It's all personal preference. My bike can also be heard from miles away as well as my snowmobile (well, up until last year). Point is, the sound of a loud exhaust will never be diminished. It has, and always will be, a personal preference. In general, the younger crowd loves to be loud. Those that hate it are usually older because I'm sure they've already enjoyed being loud in their days. I like to be loud because I love the sound, plus it brings attention to what I'm riding (which I take pride in). With that said, I don't think this problem will ever be resolved because even with a law, there is no proper way to get an accurate reading without pulling the boat out of the water. There are too many factors to offset the reading. Just my $.02 .

The problem with your personal preference is that it has a direct effect on the personal preferences of others.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by chipj29

The problem with your personal preference is that it has a direct effect on the personal preferences of others.

Maybe true, but it goes both ways. On the other hand, plenty of people love to hear the sound of a nice exhaust system. To each their own...

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

I love loud boat, bikes, trucks, snowmobiles, etc. My jet ski has an aftermarket exhaust system in it. It's all personal preference. My bike can also be heard from miles away as well as my snowmobile (well, up until last year). Point is, the sound of a loud exhaust will never be diminished. It has, and always will be, a personal preference. In general, the younger crowd loves to be loud. Those that hate it are usually older because I'm sure they've already enjoyed being loud in their days. I like to be loud because I love the sound, plus it brings attention to what I'm riding (which I take pride in). With that said, I don't think this problem will ever be resolved because even with a law, there is no proper way to get an accurate reading without pulling the boat out of the water. There are too many factors to offset the reading. Just my $.02 .

My first thought on reading this post was that it must have been planted by a SL supporter...wasn't me...it is so out of the ballpark unintelligent, selfish, and uninformed that I REALLY see what some of the sincere, safety minded opponents of the SL are up against in fighting the negative stereotypes that have been used against them. Still not convinced this post is legit but havn't gone back to check his other posts.

I agree with IDT, quoted below:

"But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat. "

[OCDACTIVE]

Not taking sides.. Just wondering though sunset if his point is valid.... Roughly what age braket are you in? He does make a fair point as far as age is considered.

I can draw a similar analogy to my younger years where I absolutely loved snowmobiling very fast, and jet skiing very fast - no matter how much it beat the hell out of me.. Over the years while I still find it fun I don't enjoy going very fast and for all day trips.. My body will kill and I can't see the point of beating myself up all the time.. Not the exact same thing here because my jet skiing did not hurt anyone else or bother anyone else but me... But you see my comparrison?

[NoBozo]

This may go right over the heads of you "Youngsters" on here. There used to be a popular Bumper Sticker that said...."Loud Pipes Save Lives". Not sayin that has any relevance here, but just a thought. .....But that bumper sticker referred to motorcycles. YUP. NB

PS: SOUND maybe...like ART...."Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". An antique aircraft Radial Engine starting up beats the snott out of seeing the Mona Liza in person. OMG:

[VtSteve]

with everyone.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Not taking sides.. Just wondering though sunset if his point is valid.... Roughly what age braket are you in? He does make a fair point as far as age is considered.

I'm 96...which is why I go by "sunset on the dock". More tomorrow if
I'm still alive.

[jrc]

Shreddy, OCD, we're just going to have to disagree here. The loud boats are an annoyance (and motorcycles) and they will be a constant reminder to the speed limit proponents.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, you will loose the ability to use you boats in a responsible manner. Someone will videotape a couple of nice boats with open exhausts zooming by the camera at a close angle. The boats will be going 40 mph but the sounds and angle will make it seem like 80 mph.

Same thing with motocycles. The crappy economy and rainy bike weeks has delayed the axe but you know people will be out gunning for that next.

BTW I just under 50 and I bought my first motorcycle with dishwashing money at 15.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

This may go right over the heads of you "Youngsters" on here. There used to be a popular Bumper Sticker that said...."Loud Pipes Save Lives". Not sayin that has any relevance here, but just a thought. .....But that bumper sticker referred to motorcycles. YUP. NB

Just, exactly, how many lives have been saved? Please provide specific, verifiable instances. Provide links, too.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by jrc

Shreddy, OCD, we're just going to have to disagree here. The loud boats are an annoyance (and motorcycles) and they will be a constant reminder to the speed limit proponents.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, you will loose the ability to use you boats in a responsible manner. Someone will videotape a couple of nice boats with open exhausts zooming by the camera at a close angle. The boats will be going 40 mph but the sounds and angle will make it seem like 80 mph.

Same thing with motocycles. The crappy economy and rainy bike weeks has delayed the axe but you know people will be out gunning for that next.

BTW I just under 50 and I bought my first motorcycle with dishwashing money at 15.

I love the sound of relatively loud bike or big block but I know that not eveyone does and because of that my old HD has a fair amount of its baffles still in place and my 455 powered Olds has mufflers. The old boat has thru hub exhaust so that is quiet. The snow machines have stock exhaust.

I guess I am the opposite of some, I like to run under the radar screen. I have always liked sleepers

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by jrc

Shreddy, OCD, we're just going to have to disagree here. The loud boats are an annoyance (and motorcycles) and they will be a constant reminder to the speed limit proponents.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, you will loose the ability to use you boats in a responsible manner. Someone will videotape a couple of nice boats with open exhausts zooming by the camera at a close angle. The boats will be going 40 mph but the sounds and angle will make it seem like 80 mph.

Same thing with motocycles. The crappy economy and rainy bike weeks has delayed the axe but you know people will be out gunning for that next.

BTW I just under 50 and I bought my first motorcycle with dishwashing money at 15.

Completly agree. I too like a nice low rumble of an 8 cylinder. I think some boats sound beautiful. But they can get obnoxious. The same with any vehicle really.

Shreddy, I know what you are saying. However, if you are a snowmobiler and ride on the trail network in the state, you need to know that it is a known fact that loud sleds close trails. You see, our trails run on private property. The landowners that give us permission to ride on their property get sick of the loud sleds that drive by late at night. Some don't like to hear the loud sleds at any time of day. Then your clubs need to figure out how to re-route a trail, which takes an amazing amount of time and effort. Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but it is something that I am very passionate about.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

My first thought on reading this post was that it must have been planted by a SL supporter...wasn't me...it is so out of the ballpark unintelligent, selfish, and uninformed that I REALLY see what some of the sincere, safety minded opponents of the SL are up against in fighting the negative stereotypes that have been used against them. Still not convinced this post is legit but havn't gone back to check his other posts.

I agree with IDT, quoted below:

"But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat. "

I am most certainly not a SL supporter, I am jsut stating my OPINION on how I FEEL about the sound of exhaust whether it pertains to any of the vehicles mentioned. I do not own a loud boat (Four Winns 220 Horizon). But yes, my bike is rather loud (along with 1000's of others in this state), my snowmobile has been loud in the past, one of my jet skis (stand up jet ski) has an aftermarket exhaust system that is a completely different tone, however no louder than any other jet ski, etc. It's all personal preference. As I mentioned there aren't too many of the younger crowd against loud exhausts from my experience. Generally speaking, it is always the older crowd that gets upset with the issue.

I don't go out with a state of mind to annoy people. I don't go through the center of town in first gear so my rpm's are at 7500 on my bike. I barely ever get on it after dark out of respect of home owners and people as well as safety. Same goes with everything else I own. There are times and places where some things are acceptable. It takes experience to start to understand that (when I was younger I didn't think twice about being annoying with my sled). Eventually, I'll be older and b*itching and moaning over some young buck who has a loud boat or loud bike (probably not, but maybe).

My point is, this has come to be an unenforceable law. LEO's do not have the proper training, nor equipment, to enforce a sound regulation. Attempting to take a reading in the field is next to impossible to enforce as there are so many factors to consider. I know this first hand as I received a ticket on my snowmobile for an aftermarket exhaust. I knew exactly what the law stated and knew it was basically unenforceable so I pleaded not guilty and won. Needless to say, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on my snowmobile because I don't want to go through the hassle, plus trails are always in danger of being closed because they are on private land. So who won in this instance? I didn't have to pay a fine, but it kind of forced me no to ride with a loud exhaust anymore? On the other hand, the lake nor the roads will never be shut down.

As said in the first place, it all comes down to personal preference and to each their own. Loud exhausts do not bother me so long as they sound nice. Simply my $.02

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Completly agree. I too like a nice low rumble of an 8 cylinder. I think some boats sound beautiful. But they can get obnoxious. The same with any vehicle really.

Shreddy, I know what you are saying. However, if you are a snowmobiler and ride on the trail network in the state, you need to know that it is a known fact that loud sleds close trails. You see, our trails run on private property. The landowners that give us permission to ride on their property get sick of the loud sleds that drive by late at night. Some don't like to hear the loud sleds at any time of day. Then your clubs need to figure out how to re-route a trail, which takes an amazing amount of time and effort. Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but it is something that I am very passionate about.

Funny you stated that about the snowmobiles as I was in the process of responding with my post above. I agree 100% and do not condone loud exhausts on snowmobiles that ride trails.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

I know this first hand as I received a ticket on my snowmobile for an aftermarket exhaust. I knew exactly what the law stated and knew it was basically unenforceable so I pleaded not guilty and won. Needless to say, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on my snowmobile because I don't want to go through the hassle, plus trails are always in danger of being closed because they are on private land. So who won in this instance? I didn't have to pay a fine, but it kind of forced me no to ride with a loud exhaust anymore? On the other hand, the lake nor the roads will never be shut down.

Sounds like the state won. If you had to appear in court to fight an "unenforceable" ticket every time you operated a loud vehicle, even if not convicted, you've already proven that the hassle of a court appearance will make you take the loud pipes off. When cops stop you for loud pipes, it's not like most speeding tickets that are just revenue enhancement, you are being stopped becuase they want you to lose the loud pipes, the fine is irrelevant to them.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Sounds like the state won. If you had to appear in court to fight an "unenforceable" ticket every time you operated a loud vehicle, even if not convicted, you've already proven that the hassle of a court appearance will make you take the loud pipes off. When cops stop you for loud pipes, it's not like most speeding tickets that are just revenue enhancement, you are being stopped becuase they want you to lose the loud pipes, the fine is irrelevant to them.

Exactly my point when I asked who won...It's most certainly much more of an issue with snowmobiles rather than boats however because snowmobiles are operated on PRIVATE land where boats are operated on PUBLIC bodies of water. Landowners can shut down access to a trail at any time they want. This doesn't hold true to lakes...

[onlywinni]

I agree that Ridiculously Loud Boats do disturb the general public.

I enjoy the sound of my Harley, my supercharged hot rod and my Baja, but within reason. The Harley makes noise, but is not offensive, the supercharger whine on my car makes more noise than the exhaust and my Baja has a Quick and Quiet-which means when cruising at the Silly 45mph speed limit most of the exhaust is directed under water so it is nice and quiet.

Does that mean if I am not making any noise skipping across the broads at 65mph I am good????????????

[BroadHopper]

I have DARPA inserts in the rubber casing of my exhaust. At the time about 20 years ago, that was the latest technology. It uses the water flowing through the exhaust to quiet the engine noise. The faster I go the more water going through the exhaust, the quieter it gets. When I start my engine, it is wicked loud and gets the attention of nearby MPO. I have a piece of paper stating I pass the 'flyby' test. I carry it all the time. If they pass a law that I have to be tested at idle, I am history.
When I first got the boat, I had switchable captain's call. It would be wicked quiet at the docks and in the bays. Once I am on the Broads I will switch it open. I had to get rid of the switchable not only because it is against the law, but to allow room for the DARPA.
What I am saying is if I had both. I can be quiet all the time. Unfortunately the law says otherwise. The law sometimes defeats its own purpose.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

I am most certainly not a SL supporter, I am jsut stating my OPINION on how I FEEL about the sound of exhaust whether it pertains to any of the vehicles mentioned. I do not own a loud boat (Four Winns 220 Horizon). But yes, my bike is rather loud (along with 1000's of others in this state), my snowmobile has been loud in the past, one of my jet skis (stand up jet ski) has an aftermarket exhaust system that is a completely different tone, however no louder than any other jet ski, etc. It's all personal preference. As I mentioned there aren't too many of the younger crowd against loud exhausts from my experience. Generally speaking, it is always the older crowd that gets upset with the issue.

I don't go out with a state of mind to annoy people. I don't go through the center of town in first gear so my rpm's are at 7500 on my bike. I barely ever get on it after dark out of respect of home owners and people as well as safety. Same goes with everything else I own. There are times and places where some things are acceptable. It takes experience to start to understand that (when I was younger I didn't think twice about being annoying with my sled). Eventually, I'll be older and b*itching and moaning over some young buck who has a loud boat or loud bike (probably not, but maybe).

My point is, this has come to be an unenforceable law. LEO's do not have the proper training, nor equipment, to enforce a sound regulation. Attempting to take a reading in the field is next to impossible to enforce as there are so many factors to consider. I know this first hand as I received a ticket on my snowmobile for an aftermarket exhaust. I knew exactly what the law stated and knew it was basically unenforceable so I pleaded not guilty and won. Needless to say, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on my snowmobile because I don't want to go through the hassle, plus trails are always in danger of being closed because they are on private land. So who won in this instance? I didn't have to pay a fine, but it kind of forced me no to ride with a loud exhaust anymore? On the other hand, the lake nor the roads will never be shut down.

As said in the first place, it all comes down to personal preference and to each their own. Loud exhausts do not bother me so long as they sound nice. Simply my $.02

How exactly do you creep in to a paved gas station with a snowmobile? I assume you also have a clutch kit for a higher RPM engagement? 4000 RPM IN TOWN on a sled with a modified exhaust is LOUD. There is no debate on that. People just hate it and then limit access to private trails. I could care less about a harley that is 200DB. Public roads are not at risk.

If opinion on the noise issue was split 50/50 then we could have a debate. Trouble is it's probably 90/10 so Loud anyting just hurts the cause.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

How exactly do you creep in to a paved gas station with a snowmobile? I assume you also have a clutch kit for a higher RPM engagement? 4000 RPM IN TOWN on a sled with a modified exhaust is LOUD. There is no debate on that. People just hate it and then limit access to private trails. I could care less about a harley that is 200DB. Public roads are not at risk.

If opinion on the noise issue was split 50/50 then we could have a debate. Trouble is it's probably 90/10 so Loud anyting just hurts the cause.

I most certainly had and still have a clutch kit on every sled I own. I, however, do not ride with aftermarket exhaust anymore, only stock. I never said I creeped into gas stations. When I did used to pull into gas stations though with an aftermarket exhaust, WOW, it was loud on pavement. Loud when crossing open water too! Half the time I never go to gas stations because I just fill the gas cans and fill at my house. The trail to Skelley's can get pretty boney at times.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Exactly my point when I asked who won...It's most certainly much more of an issue with snowmobiles rather than boats however because snowmobiles are operated on PRIVATE land where boats are operated on PUBLIC bodies of water. Landowners can shut down access to a trail at any time they want. This doesn't hold true to lakes...

I am glad to see you have a stock exhaust now. Thanks.

While you quote is technically true I would argue the state/town has limited access to the PUBLIC lake in many ways in the past 10 years.

No Rafting, No overnight anchoring, No loud exhaust, No speeding, High launch fees, etc Some of this is good some not so good...

Lots of rules which in turn limit your access to the lake.

Keep in mind the people really offended by noise seem to have more time and money than the people that generate it. This is not a good thing.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by 4Fun

I am glad to see you have a stock exhaust now. Thanks.

While you quote is technically true I would argue the state/town has limited access to the PUBLIC lake in many ways in the past 10 years.

No Rafting, No overnight anchoring, No loud exhaust, No speeding, High launch fees, etc Some of this is good some not so good...

Lots of rules which in turn limit your access to the lake.

Keep in mind the people really offended by noise seem to have more time and money than the people that generate it. This is not a good thing.

That last line always seems to be the case no matter what your dealing with. The opposing side always seems to have something going for them.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

I do not own a loud boat (Four Winns 220 Horizon). But yes, my bike is rather loud (along with 1000's of others in this state), my snowmobile has been loud in the past, one of my jet skis (stand up jet ski) has an aftermarket exhaust system that is a completely different tone, however no louder than any other jet ski, etc. It's all personal preference. As I mentioned there aren't too many of the younger crowd against loud exhausts from my experience. Generally speaking, it is always the older crowd that gets upset with the issue.

Here's a question. What does anyone think would happen if I was behind one of the 1000's of bikes and leaned on my horn? Or, what would happen if I parked outside the house of one of these 1000's and just sat there with my 200amps blaring? Does anyone think any of these 1000's would get annoyed, or would they simply accept the premise that "it's all personal preference", turn around, and smile and wave?

[chipj29]

It has been made pretty clear that one of the goals of the supporters of the speed limit was to eliminate a certain type of boat from the lake? The type of boat that they named the GFBL.
What do the last 2 letters (BL) stand for? BE LOUD. So, yeah. Some people have a problem with loud boats. And so far, they have been able to get closer to their goal.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by This'nThat

Here's a question. What does anyone think would happen if I was behind one of the 1000's of bikes and leaned on my horn? Or, what would happen if I parked outside the house of one of these 1000's and just sat there with my 200amps blaring? Does anyone think any of these 1000's would get annoyed, or would they simply accept the premise that "it's all personal preference", turn around, and smile and wave?

This thread is irrelevant to bikes though. I want to see you try and enforce a noise restriction on motorcycles. Nobody goes out and buys an aftermarket exhaust to say, "Hmm, I think I want to be as annoying as possible today to everyone in my vacinity." Aftermarket exhaust systems are added for performance and a differnt sound. Have you never wanted to make yourself, or something you own, dinstinct in your life? People get annoyed all the time, but most brush it off. Its something that, IN MY OPINION, will never disappear (unless they put a harsh consequence on violating the law).

I added my exhaust system to my motorcycle for looks, performance, and yes, sound. I have a power commander that has been dynoed and mapped to my bike for maximum performance. For reference here is a picture. As you can see, it goes rather well with the bike to make it a lot cleaner looking rather than the long stock exhaust.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I'm 96...which is why I go by "sunset on the dock". More tomorrow if
I'm still alive.

You have done it over 35,000 times now. I like your odds.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

You have done it over 35,000 times now. I like your odds.

I was joking about being 96 but thankyou for your kind words just the same.

[NoBozo]

I had a friend who was 88 and he still rode a motorcycle. (BMW)..when people would lament how it was.. when you get old...he would always say...HEY: In 12 years I'll be 100. He was a B-17 Pilot in WWII....then B-29s. Always upbeat. NB

[BroadHopper]

Still drive his old GFBL boat at 80 mph. He says it will be a cold day in hell if anyone ever tells him he is speeding in his boat! Been doing it for 70 years, he is not about to stop now! I think that is what keeps him going!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This thread is irrelevant to bikes though. I want to see you try and enforce a noise restriction on motorcycles. Nobody goes out and buys an aftermarket exhaust to say, "Hmm, I think I want to be as annoying as possible today to everyone in my vacinity." Aftermarket exhaust systems are added for performance and a differnt sound. Have you never wanted to make yourself, or something you own, dinstinct in your life? People get annoyed all the time, but most brush it off. Its something that, IN MY OPINION, will never disappear (unless they put a harsh consequence on violating the law).

I added my exhaust system to my motorcycle for looks, performance, and yes, sound. I have a power commander that has been dynoed and mapped to my bike for maximum performance. For reference here is a picture. As you can see, it goes rather well with the bike to make it a lot cleaner looking rather than the long stock exhaust.

Police crack down on motorcycle noise

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl...NEWS-905210406

Pretty sure they've been doing this around the lake also, don't hear them half as much now.

[VtSteve]

"It's a quality of life issue for the neighborhoods," Walsh said. "The noise is completely unreasonable for 11 or 12 o'clock at night."

Not an unreasonable thing at all.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"It's a quality of life issue for the neighborhoods," Walsh said. "The noise is completely unreasonable for 11 or 12 o'clock at night."

Not an unreasonable thing at all.

Agreed, so if I am out that late and idleing along.. switchable exhaust would work very very well.....

[VtSteve]

Many boaters know one another either by proximity or by type. ie:GF boaters tend to be together, as are many sailors, etc..

It would benefit all if there was some peer pressure within the groups. I know that if twenty GF boaters found another's actions objectionable, and voiced their opinions to that boater, it might have some weight in changing them. Maybe not. Same with all groups.

I found no noise objectionable on the lake this weekend, and there were plenty of GF boats around. BTW, Absolutely beautiful Outerlimits at the Naswa dock Saturday. I didn't have my camera

Speaking of noise, I noticed many PWC's that were pretty darn quiet. I don't follow them so I know nothing about their engines or exhaust. But I did see many of them, and most were pretty quiet. Nice trend.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Speaking of noise, I noticed many PWC's that were pretty darn quiet. I don't follow them so I know nothing about their engines or exhaust. But I did see many of them, and most were pretty quiet. Nice trend.

Many PWC's like my own,have gone to 4-stroke.Almost hard to tell its running at idle.

[VtSteve]

The four strokes are much appreciated