Bad economy/speed limit=bad news for lake businesses

[livefreeordie]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

This is a open forum I think this is a great topic for everyone to discuss.
Let's stay on topic everyone so this thread will stay.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Both post in this thread from you are argumentative and contain ignorance. People including myself, Woodsy, R2B and others are posting factual statements considering the FACT that if we follow the law we can not enjoy our boats at night. FACT! No embellishment, no hearsay, no wild accusation just plain fact. We are merely pointing out a fact that as a bi-product of this law we can not obey the law and enjoy it. We can go 6-8 MPH at night and take several hours to do our trip or as YOU SAY we can break the law and go 32MPH and be looking over our shoulder the entire ride worrying that the MP doesn't pull us over. Well that sucks in OUR opinion. You are entitled to yours but I'd appreciate if you didn't dismiss our concerns as "pathetic."

Let me make something else VERY clear. I own a 26 foot BOWRIDER capable of a top speed of 47MPH. At night this boat will not stay on plane at 25MPH. So this law affects the Bow Rider family boat crowd just as much.

You CAN enjoy your boat at night, although perhaps not in the manner you might be accustomed to. Perhaps this will change your desire to do things on the lake where you would have previously taken your boat out at night if you feel the only way your boat has any utility is at planing speed. If this is true, and you (and the others) spend a statistically significant amount of revenue in scenarios that involve your boat use after-hours, then I would encourage you to not partake in those activities this year by car OR boat so that the realistic economic impact of the speed limit law can be properly measured.

I did not dismiss your concerns as pathetic, I said that the approach to voicing them is pathetic (and I stand by that statement). Trying to predict some horrible doom and gloom scenario 2 days after ice-out is just a bit, IMO.

You take issue with my comments around going at 32MPH... Are you going to tell me that you do exactly the speed limit on all the roadways as well? Because you'd be the first person I've met that suddenly believes speed limits are both strictly followed, and strictly enforced, items.

So far you have not posted any FACTs that you cannot "enjoy" your boat at night. You have posted much opinion though. If you cannot see the distinction between these two things, there is little need to respond.

[jmen24]

I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet.

But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean.

Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by jmen24

I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet.

But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean.

Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer.

I agree. I don't think the list is "evil" either. I still will go to dinner at many of the resturants. However, I will give those on the list credit for at least standing up for what they believe and advertising it. So many people hide their views and are willing to give support only if it is anonomous.

I absolutely do not support the limits, but I will not change where I am a patron because of these either. That will not solve anything.

It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however.

[jmen24]

Posted by OCDACTIVE
"It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however."

That is correct.

[SIKSUKR]

Here we go again.Help.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Here we go again.Help.

It's like they were all waiting around the corner!

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Brk...

You prove my point.... If i go at displacement speed say 6-8 MPH, a round trip from the Weirs to Meredith will be approximately 1 1/2-2 hours... add in an hour or so for dinner.... it turns into a 3 hour tour! While some nights this might be enjoyable, on others less so.

At displacement speed you can forget about going to Center Harbor, Wolfeboro or Alton!! I would have to leave at noon and hope to be back at midnight!

At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame!

Woodsy

I am in complete agreement with Woodsy on this. I can't go 15 MPH to 28 MPH in my 29' boat without a huge wake and huge fuel comsumption. I can go 25 MPH, but I have to plane first and I need to go 28 MPH to 30 MPH to get on plane. Therefore, there might be a night or two where a very slow ride to Meredith might make sense, but if there is any chance of thunderstorms or if it is cold, forget it. We will either stay home or take the car.

I do not pay the high taxes and property costs to live on the lake and take the car to dinner in the summer months. It just does not make sense to me. Therefore, we are much more likely to eat at home this summer than to take the car to dinner. We might eat more locally and walk.

R2B

[jeffk]

I did not support the limit either but always thought projecting economic effects of a limit or lack of one was ridiculous. The economy is too complex. Some fast power boaters might stay away, some people who like to putt around might come. There were no provable economic declines because of the faster boats on the lake. Everything was just speculation to support an agenda.

On the other hand I expect the economy to have a big effect. People may come to the lake but they will be looking for bargains. Cooking more of their own meals, dining at less expensive restaurants. That's why Walmart's profits are up while other retailers are down. People that can buy are being much more frugal. In a vacation area where people tend to splurge that will have a big effect. Someone walking into a craft shop who used to have the discretionary income to drop a couple hundred on some neat trinket will decide they can't afford it this year. They will set limits like only one day at the water slides or Funspot. Where they can they will be downscaling their activities. Shopping trips will be more for necessities and they will be looking for bargains. There may be just as many boats on the lake, gas after all is about half the price as last year. However it will be the activities after getting off the boat that will suffer.

[Boater]

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

I'd hope they wouldn't go after me for the little bit over, but if they are looking for a reason to pull someone over, well..............

Since the MP opposed the speed limit law I doubt that they'll be aggressively enforcing it. No one is going to be out there with a radar gun looking to bag people going 5 MPH over.

We are now in a 2 year test period for the law. Let's see how it goes. Let's see what the level of enforcement is and how it really effects the economy. After 2 years we can let our thoughts be known to the legislature.

There is one huge problem. The NH legislature is now more Liberal than the Massachusetts legislature. Nanny state laws are flooding out of Concord almost faster than we can keep track. With this kind of thinking in the State House a continuation of the speed limit seems likely. What were NH voters thinking when they completely reversed course and discarded the small government, Conservative principles that served the state so well for so long?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Boater

Since the MP opposed the speed limit law I doubt that they'll be aggressively enforcing it. No one is going to be out there with a radar gun looking to bag people going 5 MPH over.

We are now in a 2 year test period for the law. Let's see how it goes. Let's see what the level of enforcement is and how it really effects the economy. After 2 years we can let our thoughts be known to the legislature.

There is one huge problem. The NH legislature is now more Liberal than the Massachusetts legislature. Nanny state laws are flooding out of Concord almost faster than we can keep track. With this kind of thinking in the State House a continuation of the speed limit seems likely. What were NH voters thinking when they completely reversed course and discarded the small government, Conservative principles that served the state so well for so long?

I am 100% in agreement with you. I moved to NH to get away from Mass... But it seems we have been over run.

The testing period is an absolute joke.... The had the intial testing last year. The winfabs pushed for the testing zones to prove how many "fast boats" are out there going at ludicris speed (any spaceballs fans out there?)... Anyway, once the data started coming in where there were almost no one going over 50mph they changed their tactics. They asked for the test to be called off for it wasn't showing accurate data (so they claimed) and started saying things like "see the limits do work. Because people knew they were being gunned they didnt go fast"

No matter what people will use data to show support of their cause.

I am just so fed up with the state and its liberal legislature that I feel nothing can be done. Logic and reason have been thrown right out the window.

[Woodsy]

OMG!!!! They have gone PLAID!!!!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OMG!!!! They have gone PLAID!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!! nice Woodsy!!!! So when does the naswa open?

[ITD]

This thread just cannot end well. Push that close button Mr. Webmaster before the rest of the SL gang wakes up.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by ITD

This thread just cannot end well. Push that close button Mr. Webmaster before the rest of the SL gang wakes up.

I disagree. I feel that whether we like it or not it will it very much part of the lake and will need to be discussed. I think as pointed out the merits of the law have been beaten like a dead horse but how it is enforced and if it is taking a toll on the lakes economy is a very important topic that should be discussed.

It will be tough because it is such a Hot Topic. But something that needs to be discussed none the less.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I disagree. I feel that whether we like it or not it will it very much part of the lake and will need to be discussed. I think as pointed out the merits of the law have been beaten like a dead horse but how it is enforced and if it is taking a toll on the lakes economy is a very important topic that should be discussed.

It will be tough because it is such a Hot Topic. But something that needs to be discussed none the less.

Honestly, you can't be serious. I mean, I love a spirited discussion more than most. Even one that becomes an argument.
But this topic? Although I am neutral on it (very seldom do I travel over 40 MPH, and never go out at night) , I read most of the posts about the speed limits. But they have long since turned into the same regurgitated garbage over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again! All this thread is, is a disguise to start it up again. Anyone can see this.
I mean, the speed limit being bad for business?????? Business is, and going to be, way way off this year. Probably fatal for many places. And the speed limit has little, if anything to do with it.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I mean, the speed limit being bad for business?????? Business is, and going to be, way way off this year. Probably fatal for many places. And the speed limit has little, if anything to do with it.

You're 100% right on that one. And the same goes for all the melodrama over poker runs and charity. One poster was commenting on how the Easter Seals will lose out because of the new law (and by implication, sick children) and what a shame it is. In reality, charities are fortunately quite adept at raising money and as the saying goes, when one door shuts, another opens. Within the confines of the new law there will be plenty(perhaps more and better) of opportunities to raise money. I look forward to some of the positive aspects of the new law that we'll see.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

You're 100% right on that one. And the same goes for all the melodrama over poker runs and charity. One poster was commenting on how the Easter Seals will lose out because of the new law (and by implication, sick children) and what a shame it is. In reality, charities are fortunately quite adept at raising money and as the saying goes, when one door shuts, another opens. Within the confines of the new law there will be plenty(perhaps more and better) of opportunities to raise money. I look forward to some of the positive aspects of the new law that we'll see.

Yes charitable organizations are pros at fund raising. They may be able to adapt. However the poker runs have been a proven successful way of raising money. My point is it is a shame that something that was so successful and brought many people to the lake may not be as successful this year due to the topic at hand.

Charitable organizations are taking a tremendous hit regardless due to the economy, I feel this just makes it even harder. Again just my own opinion.

[fatlazyless]

Any way you can slice this thread about what drives the local lake economy.....a gallon of gasoline...speed limits...overall economy....price on scrap metal going to South Korea...ozone levels...or President Obama....toss it all into the local mix and what really rules the summer lakes region, business economy is the weekend weather, along with the mid-week weather. It is far & away, the 8000lb King Kong guerrilla around these here parts, and it's all about the weather.

Fast boat, slow boat, sailboat, canoe or a swimmer: it's got to be the weather that matters the most.


Last three summers of 2006, 2007, & 2008 were all rain & clouds & cold from May 15 - August 15. Based on the law of averages and the old adage of 'a cold winter = a hot summer', this coming summer is predicted to be a hotter and sunnier summer.

Three cheers for this summer's terrific boating weather!

[swnoel]

Sounds like the Me Generation is upset!!

I don't understand why 45 mph is such a problem , how fast do you need to go?

I've been on the lake at night and most of the time you can't see your hand in front of you, why would one need to be out there going fast?

I applaude those that understand and will do their part in making the Lake safer and more enjoyable for all.

[eillac@dow]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Last three summers of 2006, 2007, & 2008 were all rain & clouds from May 15 - August 15. Based on the law of averages and the old adage of 'a cold winter = a hot summer', this coming summer is predicted to be a hotter and sunnier summer.

Three cheers for this summer's terrific boating weather!

Do you promise?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....

Three cheers for this summer's terrific boating weather!

This is the best post

[livefreeordie]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Honestly, you can't be serious. I mean, I love a spirited discussion more than most. Even one that becomes an argument.
But this topic? Although I am neutral on it (very seldom do I travel over 40 MPH, and never go out at night) , I read most of the posts about the speed limits. But they have long since turned into the same regurgitated garbage over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again! All this thread is, is a disguise to start it up again. Anyone can see this.
I mean, the speed limit being bad for business?????? Business is, and going to be, way way off this year. Probably fatal for many places. And the speed limit has little, if anything to do with it.

Here is a great example as to why this topic is good to discuss. As a kid I worked at sandy point as a dock boy on weekends. I would get 10-25 boats a night all larger boats from other ends of the lake. I can't see any more than 5% of those people making the trip this year becaus of the 25mph. Most won't come by car do to how long it takes to drive there.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by livefreeordie

Here is a great example as to why this topic is good to discuss. As a kid I worked at sandy point as a dock boy on weekends. I would get 10-25 boats a night all larger boats from other ends of the lake. I can't see any more than 5% of those people making the trip this year becaus of the 25mph. Most won't come by car do to how long it takes to drive there.

You see...my larger point is this.....You're right. People are not going to come this year. But here's the news. It has nothing to do with speed limits!!!!!
Yeah, people have pride. So they will indeed say foolish things like "we skipped the boat this year. Damn speed limits! Gonna leave it sitting for the summer." or " Yeah, we don't travel much at night for dinner. It takes too long with the new speed limits." They will say these things because they have pride. What they really mean is, "money is very tight, so we are cutting back for a while".
The Speed Limit is a very nice, convient scape goat.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

You see...my larger point is this.....You're right. People are not going to come this year. But here's the news. It has nothing to do with speed limits!!!!!
Yeah, people have pride. So they will indeed say foolish things like "we skipped the boat this year. Damn speed limits! Gonna leave it sitting for the summer." or " Yeah, we don't travel much at night for dinner. It takes too long with the new speed limits." They will say these things because they have pride. What they really mean is, "money is very tight, so we are cutting back for a while".
The Speed Limit is a very nice, convient scape goat.

Again a very good point that is speculative. You can not say that is the case for everyone. I know of many people with bigger faster boats and are not hurting what so ever $ wise, that have decided they do not need the hassel and will go elsewhere. In such a tight economy any small business owner will tell you every little bit helps.

I am sure you are right that there are people who will use it as a scape goat and pointing that out in this thread is your right. And I think others who may disagree with you deserve to be heard as well.

nothing personal.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Honestly, you can't be serious. I mean, I love a spirited discussion more than most. Even one that becomes an argument.
But this topic? Although I am neutral on it (very seldom do I travel over 40 MPH, and never go out at night) , I read most of the posts about the speed limits. But they have long since turned into the same regurgitated garbage over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again! All this thread is, is a disguise to start it up again. Anyone can see this.
I mean, the speed limit being bad for business?????? Business is, and going to be, way way off this year. Probably fatal for many places. And the speed limit has little, if anything to do with it.

Honestly I am quite serious... It is not a disguise but a true discussion. whether speculative or not at this point, it is something that is of a concern. I do agree the economy overall will have much more of an impact but you can't rule out the possibility that this will end up impacting certain, not all, but certain industries around the lake. Discussing them is a topic that can and should be discussed if people want to. If you feel it has been discussed over and over again, then feel free 'not' to participate.

Since it has just started and the season has just begun it is difficult to say that it has already been discussed because people now are beginning to make their summer plans and may voice whether or not the limits are a deciding factor in their vacation plans.

If you feel the limits will have little or nothing to do with it that is your valid opinion. I don't see why it is a problem if I or others want to voice theirs. Or come on and explain what they have been hearing from family and friends.

I agree the thread can lead to the same old arguments but that is why Mr. Webmaster stepped in to make sure it stays on topic.

The other topic that has been brought up but not discussed in your previous post was enforcement. This is also going to be an important item to look at over this coming season. I also think discussing peoples views and observations (now that the economy has played a large role in cutting back on MP funding) will be important.

On a side bar I think people supporting would like no discussion to take place so that if there are issues no one hears about them.. But that is my 2 cents

[livefreeordie]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I disagree. I feel that whether we like it or not it will it very much part of the lake and will need to be discussed. I think as pointed out the merits of the law have been beaten like a dead horse but how it is enforced and if it is taking a toll on the lakes economy is a very important topic that should be discussed.

It will be tough because it is such a Hot Topic. But something that needs to be discussed none the less.

Just found out a friends of our just sold his boat because of all this. He said he does not want the hassle of getting pulled over because his boat looks like it's dong 80 at 40mph. He said he spent 5-10k on feul a summer, and 500 on a reserved spot at the poker run. He even used to take all the NASCAR teams out on rides to show them our great lake.
I always thought I would spend my whole life on this lake but if this sticks in two years. I will raise my family some other place.

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by ITD

This thread just cannot end well. Push that close button Mr. Webmaster before the rest of the SL gang wakes up.

I agree, I can not see this thread ending well either............

[colt17]

Spoke to the owner of our marina the other day and its only half full with paying customers as of last weekend. I think its going to be a slow quiet summer on the lake.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by colt17

Spoke to the owner of our marina the other day and its only half full with paying customers as of last weekend. I think its going to be a slow quiet summer on the lake.

Quick story. We received our invoice this year, along with the annual letter, explaining: "hey, pay now, pay in full, no launches if any outstanding balances, and oh, by the way...due to OUR EXTENSIVE WAITING LIST, pay by the due date, or come get your boat." So, we did our duty and mailed the check 2 days before the dead line. This is for valet service by the way.
And the fact of the matter is that we really could have used another month or two to pay in full. But, not wanting to lose our spot, as we actually do love the place, we moved some things around, and got it paid on their requested date. Now, there are a lot of ways to ask for money in this economy, and I think the way they did it was crappy. How about this:
"Although we realize many of our valued customers are facing uncertain times, we must request payment, in full, by (whatever date), as our fine marina has many obligations we need to stay up with. We ask for your understanding in this matter. Any questions should be directed to the 'such and such'..." Much nicer than "hey, pay now. We have 12 people behind you waiting for your spot!"
The rest of the story:
I had 2 people call the day I mailed the check, and continue to have people call every 7 or 8 days, and guess what? They all get the same response.
"Plenty of room. When would you like to drop your boat off?"
What happened to the waiting list?????
I will say this, however. Noone has been offered a discount. Noone. Price has remained uniform, and all callers have been told the money is due in full. So, it is fair. I just didn't like the tone of the letter.

[overlook]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Agree or disagree with the law, I haven't heard of anyone that will be boycotting going to dinner because they can't go faster than 25 mph at night. Even at that speed, which I will not exceed after dark anyway, the lake is only a 30-35 minute cruise from one end to the other.

I beg to differ with you, any boat over 5000lbs on plane will create a wake that they could be held responsible for, and the gas mileage is horrifying. So Idling from one side to another is not reasonable. Dining by boat in the evening is just going to have to wait.

[ApS]

From this morning's MSN Money:

"...There were 7,843 commercial bankruptcy filings in March, according to AACER, a bankruptcy data management company. That's up 23% from the previous month and a staggering 65% from a year earlier. And the number of filings is accelerating..."

Originally Posted by livefreeordie

"...I think the local restaurants and gas stations on the lake will def suffer huge losses this summer..."

So why would you think that?