The Marine Patrol Is Ruining Boating

[docs333]

I will agree with you!! I guess being in the fire/police field and knowing the QUALITY of some of the people I am employed with makes me awful cynical!

Originally Posted by BrownEyedGirl

docs333 I suppose I missed what you were trying to say and I did prove your point for you It happens right? What I was trying to say is I don't think they are neccesarily all the ones who failed miserably to be regular law enforcement officers. I am sure there are many who by choice would rather be MP's than what we refer to normally as "cops". Also if they can't fit the bill to be a "cop" I don't think it's all that easy to become an MP instead. I think those frustrated ones you describe usually become security guards, and yes their failure can certainly reflect in their attitude and work.

Anyone remember the movie National Security? A group of security guards are at their "graduation" and the person who is holding the ceremony goes over the items the guards should carry with them at all times. Pepper spray, walkie-talkie's, and some quarters to call the Police if something real bad happens?

[winnipesaukeenh]

Originally Posted by docs333

I will agree with you!! I guess being in the fire/police field and knowing the QUALITY of some of the people I am employed with makes me awful cynical!

If you're in the fire/police field you should be supportive, not bad mouthing another agency.

[NoRegrets]

I do not think the Marine Patrol alone is ruining Boating. I do think the government is eroding law abiding citizens the freedom of movement without being watched or herded. This encumbered feeling is becoming pervasive and discerning. Laws for the few are restricting the freedom of all. Oh MY God! I sound like a sound bite from the sixties!!!

The opening Saturday my wife, small 4 legged friend (almost 15 pounds and full of happiness) and I boated to the weirs for our annual bike week stroll. Our dog has a distressed jean jacket full of bike week patches and gets a new one sewed on every year. A bicycle officer stopped us and pronounced “No Dogs Allowed”. After he left another older officer came up to us and met our dog and said we could continue up the street and to the drive in area and that they were trying to curb the “nasty” dogs that fight and ours was fine. He sure smoothed out the attitude from the first officer. We did not see any posted restriction or change in the law but felt bad that we were in conflict with it.

A few years ago we were at the weirs fireworks rafted with a 3 other boats and the MP gave us the note we could not raft there during fireworks. Asked why he got threatening so we complied. Haven’t been back since.

I saw some beautiful go fast boats in Paugus bay this week and can’t do anything but feel for them and the speed limit.

Don’t go to fast, to slow, Selective Rafting Rules, Don’t get within 150 feet entrapment tactics, etc. All the previous stories in this thread are believable and even though the “authorities are worth their weight in gold” in the event of a real problem it is the control over everything that is changing the Live Free of Die motto on our license plates.

Great Thread!

[tis]

Wow, that was quite a post, No Regrets. I totally agree with you, we will have no freedom at all unless this trend is reversed.

[BroadHopper]

Wish there was a thank button so I can thank Noregrets. great reply to this thread.
In the Concord Monitor, there was a story about a police officer yelling to a biker at the Weirs, 'So you like little kids'. It was very humiliating to the person. There is a lot of comments to this story that is similar to this thread.
While the majority of law enforcement are great people, there are a few that tarnish this image.
My best friend is one of the CO for Nashua Police Dept. He has a boat and was confronted by an MP about rafting in an arera that is not designated a no rafting zone. I remember the argument got heated and my friend said to the MPO that 'he had no respect for others in law enforcement!'. The MPO called for 'reinforcement' when he realized in the other boats were police officers. The MPO was told during the call to 'let it go' and return to base. You can tell the MPO was P.O.ed. It was pretty shocking event to me.

[VtSteve]

http://operationdrywater.org/


Operation Dry Water is a coordinated, national weekend of Boating Under the Influence (BUI) detection and enforcement aimed at reducing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities and fostering a stronger and more visible deterrent to alcohol use on the water.

Coordinated by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators - working with the states, the U.S. Coast Guard and other partner agencies - Operation Dry Water will directly address the National Recreational Boating Safety Strategic Plan Strategy 6.2, …increase the number of BUI checkpoints to collect and report BUI and safety compliance data in the Performance Report Part II AND Strategy 6.6 Challenge law enforcement officials to test more operators for alcohol/drug use in accident investigations.

Curbing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities is a key to achieving safer and more enjoyable recreational boating. In 2007, Coast Guard statistics indicate that 21% of all boating fatalities were a result of alcohol use. This continues an upward trend in the percentage of fatalities where alcohol was the primary cause of the accident.

The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators is a national nonprofit organization that works to develop public policy for recreational boating safety. NASBLA represents the recreational boating authorities of all 50 states and the U.S. territories.

[BroadHopper]

Thanks VtSteve. DUI is a huge problem on Lake Winnipesaukee.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

http://operationdrywater.org/


Operation Dry Water is a coordinated, national weekend of Boating Under the Influence (BUI) detection and enforcement aimed at reducing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities and fostering a stronger and more visible deterrent to alcohol use on the water.

Coordinated by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators - working with the states, the U.S. Coast Guard and other partner agencies - Operation Dry Water will directly address the National Recreational Boating Safety Strategic Plan Strategy 6.2, …increase the number of BUI checkpoints to collect and report BUI and safety compliance data in the Performance Report Part II AND Strategy 6.6 Challenge law enforcement officials to test more operators for alcohol/drug use in accident investigations.

Curbing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities is a key to achieving safer and more enjoyable recreational boating. In 2007, Coast Guard statistics indicate that 21% of all boating fatalities were a result of alcohol use. This continues an upward trend in the percentage of fatalities where alcohol was the primary cause of the accident.

The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators is a national nonprofit organization that works to develop public policy for recreational boating safety. NASBLA represents the recreational boating authorities of all 50 states and the U.S. territories.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...977/-1/CITIZEN

[VtSteve]

It was pretty interesting if you can get around the true nature of the purpose, which is to obtain future grants and funding. I had read that part of the article, but it hadn't fully sunk in until just now.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Wish there was a thank button so I can thank Noregrets. great reply to this thread.
In the Concord Monitor, there was a story about a police officer yelling to a biker at the Weirs, 'So you like little kids'. It was very humiliating to the person. There is a lot of comments to this story that is similar to this thread.
While the majority of law enforcement are great people, there are a few that tarnish this image.
My best friend is one of the CO for Nashua Police Dept. He has a boat and was confronted by an MP about rafting in an arera that is not designated a no rafting zone. I remember the argument got heated and my friend said to the MPO that 'he had no respect for others in law enforcement!'. The MPO called for 'reinforcement' when he realized in the other boats were police officers. The MPO was told during the call to 'let it go' and return to base. You can tell the MPO was P.O.ed. It was pretty shocking event to me.

An interesting story. I know there's been an increased call for enforcement of exiting laws, by myself as well. But at no time did any of us think this meant harassment, which is now occurring frequently. I wonder what that MPO would have been told if the boaters he was harassing were not police? Brings back the bad old days a bit.

One thing people have to remember.

1) Law enforcement officers everywhere are not automatically heroes. A select few earn that right by heroic duties, not by being hired and doing the wrong thing.

Interestingly enough, over here the state and local police on the lake are far more seasoned, more professional, and far more worthy than quite a few of the Coast Guard I've seen. I think too many people are entering service and getting caught up in the HSA thing. When it gets out of control, they need to be brought back to reality, or just let go.

The results of the past several years on lakes around the country point to a lack of focus on the real issues and problems. Too many drunk boaters, too many idiots endangering people in the water. To that end those that harass set back law enforcement many years. People that get stopped for routine checks by officers that are polite and courteous are far more likely to help out, and have a favorable opinion. You get some jackarse like a couple of the above that are out to feel big and harass people, and it all goes down the tube.

Since they were police, the head honcho back at base should have told them to kick the crap out of the MP and wise him up. OK, just kidding I know he's a real hero and just doing his job.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

An interesting story. I know there's been an increased call for enforcement of exiting laws, by myself as well. But at no time did any of us think this meant harassment, which is now occurring frequently. I wonder what that MPO would have been told if the boaters he was harassing were not police? Brings back the bad old days a bit.

You know, you brought up an interesting point that I had not thought of. With the recent stories of MP forcing boats into a 150' violation, I wonder if our crying out for increased enforcement of existing laws has led them to do this?
We asked for it, we got it?

[jrc]

There is no need for dirty tricks.

The MP's can write as many 150' violations and BUI as they want every Saturday and Sunday (if the sun ever comes out)

For 150' violations pick any narrow spot on the lake. In many of these spots, I'll line up to the far right, so will the on-coming traffic and then someone will always try to pass or squeeze through causing lots of confusion and swearing.

For BUI, just sit by any sandbar around dusk on Saturday or a little earlier on Sunday. The drunks are pretty easy to spot. Look for people who suddenly forgot how to drive their boats.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by chipj29

You know, you brought up an interesting point that I had not thought of. With the recent stories of MP forcing boats into a 150' violation, I wonder if our crying out for increased enforcement of existing laws has led them to do this?
We asked for it, we got it?

They are certainly forcing other boaters to get to headway speed much more often that I have seen in the past. I do not know if they are writing tickets or just giving verbal warnings. I saw this three times last week close to the islands around and south of Bear Island.

When they are doing this, they are moving slow in the water, then as you get close to them, with then on your forward/starboard side, they pick up speed and hold course forcing you to turn or to get down to headway speed. They are, in these circumstances, the stand-on vessel so they are "clean" in the conflict they are causing. It is just that they seem to be more aggressive in forcing you to make a decision this year than they have been in the past.

If they are writing tickets, that is not the ideal situation. However, if they are giving verbal warnings and some meaningful instruction about stand on vessel and the 150' rule, I see that as educational and, as such, a reasonable approach. I have not seen them doing this when I have been the stand-on vessel. This would be worse in my opinion, but no matter how anyone creats a 150' conflict, both boats have to get to headway speed.

Sometimes you have to be careful about what you are asking for and this could be the case regarding the 150' rule. I for one favor enforcement of the 150' rule.

R2B

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

When they are doing this, they are moving slow in the water, then as you get close to them, with then on your forward/starboard side, they pick up speed and hold course forcing you to turn or to get down to headway speed. They are, in these circumstances, the stand-on vessel so they are "clean" in the conflict they are causing.

I have to disagree. Stand-on vessels are supposed to maintain course and speed, if safe to do so. If they are accelerating, they are breaking the law and are not at all "clean". I plan to have a video camera along with me this Summer in case I get hassled by an MP using this rude and unsafe behavior.

[Resident 2B]

DaveR,

You are correct about maintaining course and speed, so they are not completely "clean". However, they are well away from a conflict when they start accelerating. My guess is if they have a camera, they are turning it on after they get up to speed.

If they are hanging paper, they are wrong. If they are educational in their intensions, I think there is more good here than bad.

Brnging your video is a reasonable idea.

Enjoy the good weather when it gets here.

R2B

[Airwaves]

DaveR,

You are correct about maintaining course and speed, so they are not completely "clean". However, they are well away from a conflict when they start accelerating. My guess is if they have a camera, they are turning it on after they get up to speed.

If they are hanging paper, tey are wrong.If they are educational in their intensions, I think there is more good here than bad.

Brnging your video is a reasonable idea.

Enjoy the good weather when it gets here.

R2B

Another thing to keep in mind is that beginning this year a violation of the 150' rule, headway/no wake speed, to name just a couple, anywhere in the state also brings another little gift. If you are cited and convicted it goes on your driving record. A little gift from the new law that must not be mentioned!

XI. Any conviction under this section shall be reported to the commissioner of the department of safety, division of motor vehicles, and shall become a part of the motor vehicle driving record of the person convicted.

[NoBozo]

Looks like a Chess Game doesn't it? I guess you Have to play it that way............

So why do we HAVE to play a Chess Game every time we go boating? Maybe some people don't care for Chess.? Just wondering.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by chipj29

You know, you brought up an interesting point that I had not thought of. With the recent stories of MP forcing boats into a 150' violation, I wonder if our crying out for increased enforcement of existing laws has led them to do this?
We asked for it, we got it?

I don't remember anyone asking to be harassed for being a responsible boater. I don't recall anyone calling out for the MP to use dirty tactics. Assuming the acts reported here are intentional and real, I'd think somebody would be pretty embarrassed to call them the MP. I'd also like to think there's only one or two in the MP that feel the urge to do these things.

As others have stated, there are plenty of boneheads out on the water at any given point to target, no need to make it happen. These types of incidents have a way of turning public opinion against you, which is not a good thing. The more responsible boaters there are on the lake willing to assist the MP, and discuss problems with them, the better the MP will be for it. If these types of actions are real, then the lake and it's inhabitants have another job to do.

Again, if this is just a couple or a few, continued reports of this behavior will raise a red flag to those in charge. I don't believe for a minute they'd appreciate the actions.

[Marker42]

I've found over the years in general the more senior year round mpo's are fine. However the temp seasonal etc mpo's tend to have let's use the word issues. After there training, including boat training manuvers in Glendale I believe there judgements are not refined and lead to again issues with mp and boaters. I have been blue lighted in past years myself, one time I was approached at our camp dock by two mpo in one of the regular patrol boats. I just came back from a pwc ride and was off the machine and anchored when they came over wanting my reg etc. Driving was the senior officer and the one was a newbie doing all the talking and wanted me to get on the pwc and come out to them. Ya right! I said you came to the dock. So they did and then hit my pwc floating on the anchor. The newbie one wrote me a ticket for the 150 rule. The senior one just stood back and watched. I took there name, number, bow numbers and captains name. I asked where did they see me violate this from as I never saw them. It was over 800' away in glendale area from a parralel view. GOOD EYES! Anyway long story short and off the path, I filed a complaint with them. Took the newbie/mpo in official capacity to court and won.

Other than that I have had good results with MP as long as I interact with the full time personel. It's the weekend warriors with no concerns or the (me it's all me) attitude that wind me up. Oh, and as for the mass_____s lay off. I have found just as many issues with the locals as people from surrounding states.