The Marine Patrol Is Ruining Boating
 

I know I am probably complaining but I believe over the last few years the Marine Patrol is ruining any boating people try to enjoy during the week. Yet on weekends they sit and watch dangerous situations and do nothing because it is so busy.

I consider myself a safe boater to the point I am always pissing people off for slowing down because of the 150 foot rule. I live here full time on the lake and own a boat and a couple watercrafts.

I have been pulled over twice in the last two years during the week when there were no other boats around basically except the Marine Patrol.

I have had them turn around and follow me for no reason other then something to do and see if they can find a reason to ticket me on at least 8 to 10 other ocassions during the week in the last couple years.

It is to the point now I am afriad to go on the water during the week for fear of a ticket. It just isn't fun.

My first time I got pulled over was in a no wake zone. I was idling through and the only boat in site and the Marine Patrol was sitting in the middle of this area. I had my throttle all the way idled down and speedo was reading but doesn't below 5 MPH. The officer yells at me slow down this is a no wake zone. I yell back I can't go any slower under power I am throttled all the way back. He cruises over and says you are making a wake. Yeah well it is dead calm I am pushing water with my hull at any speed. I say ok I will pull it in and out of neutral to get through here. He then says hey what have you got for an exhaust. He sees thru hull sticking out but no noise. I explain that the boat had switchable exhaust but it is disconnected. He says open it up i want to see. I do as he asks. He asks if they are welded shut I say no like a dumb ass they just electrically disconnect from the valves and switch. He starts to go through a safety check and in the middle of this unties me and says we are headed for the rocks. He moves away with all my paperwork and leaves me. I guess I have to fend for myself. I start the boat and pull it out in the middle of the water again. In the mean time he is checking paperwork and there goes several papers flying into the water out of his hand. he makes no attempt to recover them. I would consider that littering. Anyway comes back and hands me a ticket for switchable exhaust. i explain to him it is not hooked up. He says disconnecting it is not permitly disabled. What right did he have to pull me over and check it to start with. There was no probable cause.

Last year it is a little before sunset so I put my lights on, which I rarely do. I am heade home about 2 miles away and I see the blue lights. Agin i am the only boat in sight so it must be me. I pullover and the officer saya your rear light is out. i look up and it is on. He saya it was flashing on and off. Ok let me check it must be a bad bulb or connection. It stays on while he is there and he does a safety check Ok no problem. I take off. I get 1/2 mile closer to home and here he comes again. It is going off on and again. I am going to give you a ticket if you don't fix it. Alright I take it out and check the bulb and connection not a lot I can do. Now it is starting to get dark and I really probably do need it but I could have been home 45 minutes ago if you had let me. I take off and it flashes on and off again. He pulls me over again. I told you I am going to give you a ticket if you don't fix it. I explain it is now dark and I can't see to fix it and have no extra bulb with me. I am only 1.5 miles from home I will fix it tomorrow. He isn't happy. I ask him what he would like me to do? Finaaly he says he will follow me home. That was nice of him but hell I would have been home 1.5 hours ago while it was light if you just let me know my light was flickering. At least he didn't give me a tciket.

Almost everytime I have seen the Marine Patrol during the week they flip it around and follow me for a while. this is almost without exception if I am on the watercraft. Why?

Yesterday I am on the lake with the watercraft and coming into Center Harbor. In front of me are two watercrafts they were together talking but then separate and take off before I reach them. I am following them as a Marine Patrol boat is coming out of Center Harbor. He cruises by all of us gong the other way. But wait after he gets by me he flips it around and follows. The two in front of me slow as they enter through the markers coming into Center Harbor so I am forced to also. They get through and as i am paaing through I see the blue lights. This time he is not after me but them. He passes me within 25 feet at at least 30 MPH through that narrow set of markers to get to them. Thanks for the wake Jackass. So what you had your blue lights on. They might have got away had you had to idle behind me for two more minutes because we were all in the bay. I saw they did nothing wrong except possibly when they took off they may only have been 100 feet apart but at least they gave it an effort.

Sorry that incident yesterday just set me off again this year. Yet on the weekends I have seen jetskis jumping wake within 25 feet of boats and 20 other laws being broken within 200 feet of a Marine Patrol boat and nothing.

Just wonder if anybody else has had the same experiences with the Marine Patrol. They are suppose to be there for our safety not to hassle us. If somebody is doing something wrong pull them over and let them know if it was a willful attempt at breaking the law. Explain it is just for their safety and eductaion. If they do it again sue ticket them.

Now in defense of the Marine Patrol I will say I have had to call them a couple times with questions and once went down in person to have them explain if I needed a stciker on my watercraft to show it was a three person unit and in those cases they were very understanding knowledgable and friendly but these were all the fullltime officers. I think the young summer help with a little authority is giving them a real bad reputation.

Been there too!
 

A couple of years ago I was heading towards Harilla in my 15' center console. Five people (myself, my parents, and two brothers) in the boat (coast guard approved for six), everyone is wearing a life jacket, and we were cruising at about 20 mph. It was the middle of the day, in the middle of the week. Out of nowhere a MP boat races up next to me with his blues flashing. I slow to a stop and he yells at me for violating the 150' rule. I asked him what he was talking about as the only other boat around was the one he was driving. He said I was within 150' of him, I said he was the one who pulled up to me. He responded with something along the lines of "You broke the rules, and I am here to enforce them." Had it not been for my father calling MP headquarters to report the incident as this was going on, I think I would have given me a ticket.

In another incident, it was a Wednesday night heading back from Meredith and in between Sandy Island and Long Island was a stopped MP boat with all their lights off. No anchor lights at all, and had it not been for the moon reflecting off the bow numbers the boats would have collided. As soon as the boats passed the MP officer flipped his navigation lights on and high tailed it out of their. Someone caught the bow numbers of the MP boat, and the incident was reported the next morning. The MP officer had his commercial boat license revoked, and as a result he lost his position as a MP officer.

Just a couple of stories to add to the frustration. They are supposed to be there to protect us, but sometimes they put us in more danger.

Where are you located? i have countless stories like the ones you mentioned

No Duty to Protect
 

Just an FYI (and this should likely be another thread altogether) the marine patrol are likely in the same league as the police in NOT having a duty to protect. They're duty is mostly reactionary. Here's an article from a while ago on this that I think someone may have posted somewhere already: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

Your not alone...
 

I would consider that littering as well, yet arguing with any type of law enforcement officer IMHO is one of the biggest ways to waste time. They always seem to win.


From your story it appears his cause to initially pull you over was that you were causing wake in a NWZ. Atleast that would be his argument.


Law enforcement officers do not need any warrant or further probable cause to examine something that is in plain view. Do a quick Google search of the "plain view doctrine". Whether or not it is making noise doesn't matter, and judging from his response having the system disabled doesn't matter either. He should have explained to you what you need to do to remedy this and make it legal.

Whatever answer or conclusion you come to after more responses are made the bottom line is it doesn't matter. They do what they do and get away with it for the most part because they can. I agree it's very frustrating, the most you can do is call and complain to MP headquarters about the behavior of any particular Officer if you feel you are being harrased for no reason. I can tell you from experience you are likely to get nowhere. Even if they are wrong most times they can concoct some reason or another why they are right and you lose. Very rarely can you convince a Judge that an Officer was being dishonest or harrasing you for no reason. I am not saying this Officer was wrong or right in his behaviors I am just saying what I feel is most important to remember when dealing with these types of situations, that even when they are very wrong they are always right.

enforcement
 

Coastal Laker, I disagree. The laws and rules established by the state for their waterways are designed with the intent to protect those people recreationally using said waterways. The marine patrol is designed to enforce those laws and rules, and by extension protect those using the lake.

Anytime you put a badge on an ar$$hole, and put them on the water on land, you end up with an ar$$hole with a badge on. It's been a long standing problem from way back, this includes the summer detail cops as well as the MP's.

Since you are such a repeat target, I suggest you find a friend with a camcorder to properly record these incidents. A media person would be awesome if possible. It's too bad that a$$wipes get into these positions, but like any job, they do get in.

Everytime I hear stories like these, I think of the movie Walking Tall.

Many incidents.
 

I and many others have reported abusive incidents with MP officers. Seems to me I have problems with Capt. Boneheads on weekends and the MP officers during the week. I just can't win!

Whenever I am issued a ticket, a phone call to the MP office in Gilford, usually does the trick to avoid paying the fine or court appearance.

One time I had to appear in court. The court date was never sent to me. It's been a few years since.

Report Them!
 

Anytime someone has a problem with a law enforcement officer whether it be Marine Patrol, State Police or local police the absolute best thing to do is make a report in writing to their governing "internal affairs" division. These reports go directly and permanently in their personnel file. If enough of a pattern shows up something will happen. It is absolutely useless to call and complain as most of the time the "good old boy syndrome" will take care of itself and no one will get reprimanded.

Most new officers are "badge heavy". You won't find many seasoned officers that way but there are still some. All you can do is report the ones who abuse the power of the badge in writing.

Dan

Never an incident
 

We make the trip from Fay’s or Glendale to Welch and back on a very regular basis and have done so for 10 years, my father-in-law for 28 years prior to that. There has never had an incident with Marine Patrol in all those 38 years.
If we have a complaint it is that they appear somewhat lax in enforcing the 150’ rule and also lax in going after those who fail to give way to the starboard boat.

Same here
 

In 30+ years of boating on Winni I've yet to be hauled over. The only complaint I can register is that on numerous occasions I've seen an MP boat sit just outside a channel or passage such that to avoid a 150' conflict with either the shore or the MP boat you need to come off plane. A better observation place would eliminate this conflict but still allow the MP to see what's going on. It would seem to be a test but it also creates unnecessary wakes as boats have to come off and go back on plane. As if we don't have enough boat wakes w/o the "test".




I see we're now past the black fly beotching part of the season and into the MP flogging part. Skipped the whole loud MC exhaust session this year it seems. Now someone remind me, is it PWC complaints or inconsiderate wakeboarders next ? I've lost my itinerary.

The more things change....
 

Nope, according to my itinerary you pretty well nailed it on the head! :D

Wait a second!
 

My observations (as a long time lurker before I registered) say the restaraunt forums are next....:D:D:D

When do we get to abusing the Massho...es and flatlanders? :D

The Massho.es part is year round.

While commuting to the island a few weeks back I thought I had invited a visit from the MP. No boats in site. Don't think it was dark enough to require lights but I had mine on because of the dark clouds overhead. I was trying to get back before the rain started and was on plane about 35mph. I went by the MP as the only other boat as far as I could see.

I could not help but think, I set myself up for a potential speeding ticket by going 35 with my lights on. What's the exact rule for when 25mph is the limit? I had gone about a mile before it occurred to me. My contingency plan was to take his picture stopping me with my cell phone so I could bring it to court to show how light it was.

He didn't stop me. What's the rule?

Have you seen this? The MP gave it to me.

BTW I don't think the MP are ruining boating. Like any other law enforcement operation, there are lot of seriously dedicated people working for crappy pay, doing whatever is needed to keep people safe. And yes there are always a couple of meatheads.

There does seem to be a intentional effort recently to use their boats and the 150' rule to either slow traffic or instigate an interaction. I could be imagining it. But a few weeks ago an MP seemed to try and pinch me between himself and some markers, I either had to slow or violate the 150' rule. There was no traffic and no other reason for his move.

Last weekend a MP boat sat at idle in between Belknap point, FL26 and Lockes Island, spaced so that you could not easily pass him without violating the 150' rule to him or to shore. There was no other obvious reason to stop there. He could have moved 200' feet either way and opened up room for boats to pass on plane.

Sorry Not Trying To Bash Marine Patrol
 

Don't get me wrong I know there is a need for Marine Patrol and they are very helpful and good at what they do. I am just frustrated over the last couple years and don't enjoy those late afternoon cruises like I use too.

I am curious if maybe they are being told they need to generate as many tickets as possible to protact theirs jobs and not go through a budget cut in a tough economy.

In the 20 years of boating up here I never had them turn around and follow for no reason until the last couple.

I use to wave to them as I passed them as a friendly justure and thanks for doing a good job. Now I am afraid to wave as it may draw attention to me.

I am not trying to bash them I was just curious if it was just me imagining this during the week or if it really seems worse then it use to be.

Not real cops!!!
 

Most of these MP guys are just frustrated wannabe cops who never could get hired on a REAL police dept!!!!

I can live with all the other situations on the lake. Except this one. The one where the MP boat goes headway speed through the narrows in Moultonboro. This is such a perfect example of how the 150 rule SHOULD be bent sometimes to prevent a traffic jam. I have sat behind a MP boat for 20 min + while idling through there several times. It's nearly impossible to follow the law and ever get up to speed. Even when the lake opens up You are still 150' from the boat behind you. You can NEVER speed up legally because everyone is so tight. I feel they are just there waiting to ticket. Very Frustrating.

That is actually pretty far from the truth...as I know many MPO's. First off, many Marine Patrol Officer's are part time or full time police officer's at other law enforcement agencies. Secondly, Marine Patrol Officer's are sworn police officer's here in the state of New Hampshire. They go through the police academy just like any other law enforcement officer. Just wanted to clear that up for you.

Intern?
 

Well I got a ticket from a young MPO back in 2003, who claims he just graduate from NH Police Academy. The reason he brought that up is he looks awfully young to be an officer. He gave me a ticket for anchoring without my running lights on! (port,starboard lights). I argued that the anchor light (white light) is all I need and he insist he knows the law, even though he has never been on a boat or gone boating before he joined the marine patrol. I ask him if he had taken the USCG boating course or the NH safety boater's course and his reply was. 'NHMP gives all MPO's a course'.
A call to his CO in Glendale took care of the ticket. I heard he quit law enforcement after his stint with the the MP. :rolleye1:

Misinformed
 

I believe this is misinformation and a crazy way to think, especially if you are a boater! They could cuff and stuff you just as fast as a Police Officer. MP officers have all the authority that Police Officers do and go through the same training. The only difference is they are more familiar with and enforce a different area of the law that pertains to water and it's recreational use.

I think I have been stopped by the same MPO. There is no way he was more than 19 years old. Some may be professional law enforcement but this guy was definitely summer help!!! He was pleasant enough but I am not sure how much he knew about boats.

I am quite aware of the legal authority and training of the MP. After being pulled over for a minor infraction a few years back I had to check for myself...because I couldn't believe that the "gentleman" who pulled me over could actually be issued a gun. Thanks though for the info!

I'd like to think you are making my point for me......the best cops I know are the ones who have a wealth of experience dealing with both the public and the perps.......Unless they're from a few cities in NH (ie. Laconia, Concord, Manchester, Nashua) then my guess would be they are extremely good at creating their own excitement!!!!

Just wanted to say, I'm sure that there are good MPO's....officers who look out for the best interests of ALL.....officers that are skilled at defusing a situation rather then compounding it....officers who are helpful, intelligent and a true asset to the Marine Patrol and the people of New Hampshire....I just wish there were MORE of them and less of the ones that we usually run across!!!!

When did the NHMP get the authority to carry guns? I hope that was just a TASER in his holster. If you ever see an MP with a real gun you should report that immediatly.

Bruce
 

I am sure Carl would always obey!!

I have had no problems with them during the week and I DO believe they are there to keep everyone safe.

Though, if it was me blowing by another vessel at 25 feet at nearly 30 mph I am sure that I would get a a ticket. Would they be responsible if someone was injured or a collision occurred because THEY broke the law ??? :confused:

Marine Patrol has been partially armed (on the Coast) since 9-11. This season, the entire force will be armed.

I, too, can think of several instances where I was quite certain that an MP vessel had altered course to provoke an interaction in order to see how I'd respond.

I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the job the MPOs do to help keep us all safe out there, but they really need to stop doing that kind of thing. It does not help their relations with the boating community even a little bit!

Silver Duck

Hey docs333
 

docs333 I suppose I missed what you were trying to say and I did prove your point for you ;) It happens right? What I was trying to say is I don't think they are neccesarily all the ones who failed miserably to be regular law enforcement officers. I am sure there are many who by choice would rather be MP's than what we refer to normally as "cops". Also if they can't fit the bill to be a "cop" I don't think it's all that easy to become an MP instead. I think those frustrated ones you describe usually become security guards, and yes their failure can certainly reflect in their attitude and work.

Anyone remember the movie National Security? :D A group of security guards are at their "graduation" and the person who is holding the ceremony goes over the items the guards should carry with them at all times. Pepper spray, walkie-talkie's, and some quarters to call the Police if something real bad happens? :laugh:

I will agree with you!! I guess being in the fire/police field and knowing the QUALITY:laugh: of some of the people I am employed with makes me awful cynical!

If you're in the fire/police field you should be supportive, not bad mouthing another agency.

Marine Patrol is not alone in ruining boating...
 

I do not think the Marine Patrol alone is ruining Boating. I do think the government is eroding law abiding citizens the freedom of movement without being watched or herded. This encumbered feeling is becoming pervasive and discerning. Laws for the few are restricting the freedom of all. Oh MY God! I sound like a sound bite from the sixties!!!

The opening Saturday my wife, small 4 legged friend (almost 15 pounds and full of happiness) and I boated to the weirs for our annual bike week stroll. Our dog has a distressed jean jacket full of bike week patches and gets a new one sewed on every year. A bicycle officer stopped us and pronounced “No Dogs Allowed”. After he left another older officer came up to us and met our dog and said we could continue up the street and to the drive in area and that they were trying to curb the “nasty” dogs that fight and ours was fine. He sure smoothed out the attitude from the first officer. We did not see any posted restriction or change in the law but felt bad that we were in conflict with it.

A few years ago we were at the weirs fireworks rafted with a 3 other boats and the MP gave us the note we could not raft there during fireworks. Asked why he got threatening so we complied. Haven’t been back since.

I saw some beautiful go fast boats in Paugus bay this week and can’t do anything but feel for them and the speed limit.

Don’t go to fast, to slow, Selective Rafting Rules, Don’t get within 150 feet entrapment tactics, etc. All the previous stories in this thread are believable and even though the “authorities are worth their weight in gold” in the event of a real problem it is the control over everything that is changing the Live Free of Die motto on our license plates.

Great Thread!

Wow, that was quite a post, No Regrets. I totally agree with you, we will have no freedom at all unless this trend is reversed.

Thanks
 

Wish there was a thank button so I can thank Noregrets. great reply to this thread.
In the Concord Monitor, there was a story about a police officer yelling to a biker at the Weirs, 'So you like little kids'. It was very humiliating to the person. There is a lot of comments to this story that is similar to this thread.
While the majority of law enforcement are great people, there are a few that tarnish this image.
My best friend is one of the CO for Nashua Police Dept. He has a boat and was confronted by an MP about rafting in an arera that is not designated a no rafting zone. I remember the argument got heated and my friend said to the MPO that 'he had no respect for others in law enforcement!'. The MPO called for 'reinforcement' when he realized in the other boats were police officers. The MPO was told during the call to 'let it go' and return to base. You can tell the MPO was P.O.ed. It was pretty shocking event to me.

Something for the MP to do
 

http://operationdrywater.org/


Operation Dry Water is a coordinated, national weekend of Boating Under the Influence (BUI) detection and enforcement aimed at reducing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities and fostering a stronger and more visible deterrent to alcohol use on the water.

Coordinated by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators - working with the states, the U.S. Coast Guard and other partner agencies - Operation Dry Water will directly address the National Recreational Boating Safety Strategic Plan Strategy 6.2, …increase the number of BUI checkpoints to collect and report BUI and safety compliance data in the Performance Report Part II AND Strategy 6.6 Challenge law enforcement officials to test more operators for alcohol/drug use in accident investigations.

Curbing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities is a key to achieving safer and more enjoyable recreational boating. In 2007, Coast Guard statistics indicate that 21% of all boating fatalities were a result of alcohol use. This continues an upward trend in the percentage of fatalities where alcohol was the primary cause of the accident.

The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators is a national nonprofit organization that works to develop public policy for recreational boating safety. NASBLA represents the recreational boating authorities of all 50 states and the U.S. territories.

Great idea!
 

Thanks VtSteve. DUI is a huge problem on Lake Winnipesaukee.

An interesting story. I know there's been an increased call for enforcement of exiting laws, by myself as well. But at no time did any of us think this meant harassment, which is now occurring frequently. I wonder what that MPO would have been told if the boaters he was harassing were not police? Brings back the bad old days a bit.

One thing people have to remember.

1) Law enforcement officers everywhere are not automatically heroes. A select few earn that right by heroic duties, not by being hired and doing the wrong thing.

Interestingly enough, over here the state and local police on the lake are far more seasoned, more professional, and far more worthy than quite a few of the Coast Guard I've seen. I think too many people are entering service and getting caught up in the HSA thing. When it gets out of control, they need to be brought back to reality, or just let go.

The results of the past several years on lakes around the country point to a lack of focus on the real issues and problems. Too many drunk boaters, too many idiots endangering people in the water. To that end those that harass set back law enforcement many years. People that get stopped for routine checks by officers that are polite and courteous are far more likely to help out, and have a favorable opinion. You get some jackarse like a couple of the above that are out to feel big and harass people, and it all goes down the tube.

Since they were police, the head honcho back at base should have told them to kick the crap out of the MP and wise him up. OK, just kidding :emb: I know he's a real hero and just doing his job.

....................
 

I've found over the years in general the more senior year round mpo's are fine. However the temp seasonal etc mpo's tend to have let's use the word issues. After there training, including boat training manuvers in Glendale I believe there judgements are not refined and lead to again issues with mp and boaters. I have been blue lighted in past years myself, one time I was approached at our camp dock by two mpo in one of the regular patrol boats. I just came back from a pwc ride and was off the machine and anchored when they came over wanting my reg etc. Driving was the senior officer and the one was a newbie doing all the talking and wanted me to get on the pwc and come out to them. Ya right! I said you came to the dock. So they did and then hit my pwc floating on the anchor. The newbie one wrote me a ticket for the 150 rule. The senior one just stood back and watched. I took there name, number, bow numbers and captains name. I asked where did they see me violate this from as I never saw them. It was over 800' away in glendale area from a parralel view. GOOD EYES! Anyway long story short and off the path, I filed a complaint with them. Took the newbie/mpo in official capacity to court and won.

Other than that I have had good results with MP as long as I interact with the full time personel. It's the weekend warriors with no concerns or the (me it's all me) attitude that wind me up. Oh, and as for the mass_____s lay off. I have found just as many issues with the locals as people from surrounding states.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...977/-1/CITIZEN

It was pretty interesting if you can get around the true nature of the purpose, which is to obtain future grants and funding. I had read that part of the article, but it hadn't fully sunk in until just now.

You know, you brought up an interesting point that I had not thought of. With the recent stories of MP forcing boats into a 150' violation, I wonder if our crying out for increased enforcement of existing laws has led them to do this?
We asked for it, we got it?

There is no need for dirty tricks.

The MP's can write as many 150' violations and BUI as they want every Saturday and Sunday (if the sun ever comes out)

For 150' violations pick any narrow spot on the lake. In many of these spots, I'll line up to the far right, so will the on-coming traffic and then someone will always try to pass or squeeze through causing lots of confusion and swearing.

For BUI, just sit by any sandbar around dusk on Saturday or a little earlier on Sunday. The drunks are pretty easy to spot. Look for people who suddenly forgot how to drive their boats.

They are certainly forcing other boaters to get to headway speed much more often that I have seen in the past. I do not know if they are writing tickets or just giving verbal warnings. I saw this three times last week close to the islands around and south of Bear Island.

When they are doing this, they are moving slow in the water, then as you get close to them, with then on your forward/starboard side, they pick up speed and hold course forcing you to turn or to get down to headway speed. They are, in these circumstances, the stand-on vessel so they are "clean" in the conflict they are causing. It is just that they seem to be more aggressive in forcing you to make a decision this year than they have been in the past.

If they are writing tickets, that is not the ideal situation. However, if they are giving verbal warnings and some meaningful instruction about stand on vessel and the 150' rule, I see that as educational and, as such, a reasonable approach. I have not seen them doing this when I have been the stand-on vessel. This would be worse in my opinion, but no matter how anyone creats a 150' conflict, both boats have to get to headway speed.

Sometimes you have to be careful about what you are asking for and this could be the case regarding the 150' rule. I for one favor enforcement of the 150' rule.

R2B

I have to disagree. Stand-on vessels are supposed to maintain course and speed, if safe to do so. If they are accelerating, they are breaking the law and are not at all "clean". I plan to have a video camera along with me this Summer in case I get hassled by an MP using this rude and unsafe behavior.

DaveR,

You are correct about maintaining course and speed, so they are not completely "clean". However, they are well away from a conflict when they start accelerating. My guess is if they have a camera, they are turning it on after they get up to speed.

If they are hanging paper, they are wrong. If they are educational in their intensions, I think there is more good here than bad.

Brnging your video is a reasonable idea.

Enjoy the good weather when it gets here.

R2B

Another thing to keep in mind is that beginning this year a violation of the 150' rule, headway/no wake speed, to name just a couple, anywhere in the state also brings another little gift. If you are cited and convicted it goes on your driving record. A little gift from the new law that must not be mentioned!

Looks like a Chess Game doesn't it? I guess you Have to play it that way............:(

So why do we HAVE to play a Chess Game every time we go boating? Maybe some people don't care for Chess.? Just wondering.

This is a disturbing post! It would be completely dangerous and insensible to carry a taser on the water! And as another poster stated, the ENTIRE agency is armed this year. They are no different from any other law enforcement agency, and I think it's great that they are finally armed. And no, if you see a Marine Patrol Officer with a firearm, which you will, there is no need to "report it." They have qualified with the weapon, thus earning the right to carry it.

MPs are armed this year?
 

This just isn't right.

For half a century, the Winnipesaukee MPs have not been armed.

It's either:

1) justified due to some boating-public demographic we haven't heard about, or

2) it's some kind of embellishment to draw seasonal help—who can then seek LEO employment elsewhere off-season.

(A poor way, IMHO, to spend "OPM"—Other People's Money)

My several "meetups" with NHMPs have been mostly cordial—and I had one "meetup" with one NHMP officer that lasted 1½ hours! I was eventually cited, but then "uncited" after mail was exchanged with Director Barrett showing that I was correct.

Just don't be the only boat in view on the lake! :eek:

It is? :confused: How can a NHMP officer determine that?

Late last season, I watched a 30-foot boat do a half-dozen large "figure-eights" at top speed. Was it BUI or a chance to run out last year's gasoline?

Wouldn't it then make sense to crowd that boat into a 150-foot violation?

I agree with jrc, but in order to entrap a problem boater—one who could have been "called-in"—that offender may need to be crowded by the MP to allow "a legitimate stop".

BTW 1: Just an MP's presence in a narrow spot will reduce 150-foot violations by those knowledgeable in this lake's rules. :cool:

BTW 2: Am I seeing the same handful of boaters doing the complaining?

I don't remember anyone asking to be harassed for being a responsible boater. I don't recall anyone calling out for the MP to use dirty tactics. Assuming the acts reported here are intentional and real, I'd think somebody would be pretty embarrassed to call them the MP. I'd also like to think there's only one or two in the MP that feel the urge to do these things.

As others have stated, there are plenty of boneheads out on the water at any given point to target, no need to make it happen. These types of incidents have a way of turning public opinion against you, which is not a good thing. The more responsible boaters there are on the lake willing to assist the MP, and discuss problems with them, the better the MP will be for it. If these types of actions are real, then the lake and it's inhabitants have another job to do.

Again, if this is just a couple or a few, continued reports of this behavior will raise a red flag to those in charge. I don't believe for a minute they'd appreciate the actions.

We shall agree to disagree
 

I hear you, but laws and rules don't "do" anything, they are just words, so they don't protect anyone or anything. They are simply the means by which enforcement can react and hold us accountable after the fact. There's nothing pro-active there. To "protect" is a verb, an action that words cannot do. The marine patrol will not be standing on my boat or patrolling alongside "protecting" me from harm by others. How could they? They can only react after witnessing wrongdoing, or after an accident, complaint, or report. Just my $.02. Prevention and protection are two very different words - and you know how the courts are about nitpicking vocabulary.

My experience
 

I just had to re-post this story I posted back on May 26th in another thread. I wanted to add this to this thread to compound what I see as a very dangerous trend by SOME Marine Patrol Officer's. This thread prompted me to write an email to the Marine Patrol highlighting my story or stories and including a link to this thread. My request was that the Marine Patrol Officer in Charge discuss courteous boating practices with the officers. I also alluded to the fact that the credibility and overall image of the Officers is negatively impacted by this behavior. FYI it has happened a couple of more times since I wrote this, leading me to speculate that this has practically become standard procedure. I pray that I am wrong.:rolleye1:

Here is my story:
Twice..... TWICE this past weekend I saw Marine Patrol engaging in what I consider rude, inconsiderate boating practices. Once in the Barbers Pole area and the other time in the 6 pack/mini-graveyard off of Long Island.

Both times the officers, (different boat and officer each time) were cruising at no wake speed RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CHANNEL. Making it impossible for anyone to pass above headway speed. Now I am all for relaxing and taking it slow but this is downright rude boating. It borders on entrapment IMHO. As if they were daring boaters to pass them. Both times I offered the obligatory shrug of the shoulders and shake of the head. Seriously though consideration goes a long way in both directions. I would never ever ever take up the middle of the channel at no wake speed and I can only imagine Marine Patrol would probably pull someone over for pulling a stunt like that. Not that they would have grounds to but they'd probably give someone a stern lecture for it.

now I get it
 

This same thing happened to me, in the area just described nearby Long Island. I came up behind an MP boat that was idling through that section and passed him. I believe I was more than 150' away as he was exiting the channel. He wrote me up for a fine. I didn't think too much of it and figured I should have waited a bit longer to pass him. Only now, after reading several of these posts, do I realize I was set up.

Back to the opening post, I do believe the Marine Patrol makes it a lot LESS fun to boat on Winni because of their overzealousness. I also feel that when there are young kids in the boat and they see their parents and other adults cringe and get defensive whenever they see an MP vessel, it sends the wrong message to the kids about law enforcement officers. I believe that kids should be brought up respecting LEOs and expecting them to be courteous and helpful, even if they are correcting unlawful behavior. How many boating families on the Lake feel threatened by the MPs and pass that on to the kids? I look back and realize we did, and I wish I hadn't.

Does the Marine Patrol even care that they are seen in a negative light by far too many reasonable boaters?

Peter

An therein lies the problem Peter. You did in fact break the law and you have admitted that. However, the fact that Marine Patrol sits in that area or "idl(es) through that section..." is where the real problem lies. This is what really pisses me off. You'd think that there are enough idiots out there breaking the law without Marine Patrol provoking a potential violation. If I had the badge I'd make it a point to motor through that area in a reasonable manner so that I wouldn't even have a chance to provoke a violation. That's just me, that's the way I, as a civilian, do my boating. I make sure to keep way to the right and anticipate a course that can provide others around me ample space to pass legally. Am I asking too much of my marine patrol?

FYI,

I received a response from Marine Patrol to my email. It wasn't what I had hoped but she did say she had "...addressed (my) concern with various officers who patrol on Lake Winnipesaukee." One can only hope so.

Actually he DIDN'T admit breaking the law. He said he thought he was more then 150 feet away.

I was similarly stopped for a 150 foot violation. I am a pilot and many runways are 150 feet wide. I KNOW what 150 feet looks like. The MP was wrong. I believe there is at least one MP who is over zealous in trying to bag people.

Does anyone think there might be some AGE descrimination going on here. When I was younger.. over 40 years ago.. (I'm 67) I just KNEW that the Cops were after me because I was young.

Today..I have no reason to disbelieve that theory because lately, ...last 40 years or so, I have not been hassled on the road...or in the boat. I have gray hair and wear my ball cap on straight. Just wondering.

I recall reading on this forum either last summer or the summer prior that a forum member was stopped by the Marine Patrol for violating the Safe Passage rule and was informed by the MPO that 150 FEET was the length of THREE FOOTBALL FIELDS! :emb:

Touchdown passes are much easier on those 50 foot football fields you know. :)

Not sure if anyone was at the sand bar outside Small's Cove this saturday, but a marine patrol officer came driving in going to boats handing out flyers regarding the no rafting rule and keeping 150' from shore. He didn't stop at my boat, I was on the outside near the no wake buoy if you are familiar with the area. I noticed him go to a boat that wasn't to far from me and explained to them that they were too close to shore. The only problem was that the other boater and a few others he spoke to were at least 100' from the 150' buoy's. I don't understand why they were told they were too close. You'd think it would be as simple as not being within the bouy and the shore. Not according to this MPO. There was plenty of space between boats. No violations of the 25' rule. just another reason to bother people and confuse boaters who don't know the rules. it wasn't loud or rowdy or extremely busy like some days out there. Just seems like they are looking to make their presence known and bother people trying to enjoy one of the very few nice days of the year.

I don't believe on the water it is age discrimanation. I do believe that many more stops are made for watercrafts then boats. I also think some officers also have a problem with boats that look fast.

When I got a ticket for boat type it said sped boat. No that is not a typing error that is what it said on the ticket. My boat is a Baja and clearly advertised in big letters all over the boat.

It is 365 hp not nearly as close to a speed boat as what he had with 2 300 hp outboards on the back.

Discrimination
 

I agree. I have a Formula with about 300 HP. I seems that MPO's always pick on me whenever I am in a no rafting zone. I will be the first one there. Well away from other boats and fully aware of the rules. Yet they will ask me to pack up my 4 grandkids, 3 daughters and move. Or I will get ticket.

That is why you don't see too many performance boats in the no rafting area. Most performance boaters have the same story to tell.

Originally posted by Broadhopper
Assuming that you are not violating any rules, I wonder if keeping a copy of the rafting rules on board and the next time an MPO does that politely pull them out, present them and tell the MPO you are confused, ask him/her to point out which regulation on rafting you are violating so you'll be sure not to do it again. I'd love to hear their response!

I always keep a wary eye for the MP... and so far ..I have only been approached once (in 12 years) ..at the Wolfeboro Town dock about my through hull exhaust. The MP just wondered if I had mufflers. I told him......"As far as I knew, I had no mufflers". I asked him to come aboard and have a look. He declined. There was no further conversation other than .."Have a nice day".

I have a Donzi Classic. :coolsm:

Give the MP 1/2 point for an action today. After days of rain, the sun came out and so did they boats. Lots of them! The MP came by, doing their standard "leader of the parade" act, forcing everyone to go slow by moving at headway speed in the middle of the narrows. All of a sudden, the skies opened up and it started pouring. The MP boat moved off to the side of the narrows (where they should have been anyway at headway speed) and let everyone zoom home. So many boats were in the MP parade that it was a mad-magazine scene for a while. Free entertainment! :rolleye2:

my two cents
 

I think the mp in general do a good job. Better with than with out.

"Better with than with out." seems to be setting the bar pretty low. Why can't we expect more from this public organization? Lowering our expectations for public service is not an acceptable option, IMO.

I don't seem to hear these criticisms of the state or local police. Sure, every organization has issues and problems, but from what I read from this forum, the Marine Patrol is in a class by itself in terms of public respect. They have a unique opportunity to keep our waters safe AND educate boaters in a professional but helpful manner. I'm not sure that is their mission.

Peter

Mp
 

Ive been pulled over several times for nothing .. Wasting my precious free time on the water.. They realy need to back off on the provacation.. Now in this already depressed economy they are going to have a crackdown..just what the local economy needs..
Marine patrol.. almost useless IMHO
43 years on the lake

100% Agree with this statement. I am usually quite a supporter and defender of the Marine Patrol. This "issue" that I spoke of and subsequently wrote an email to MPHQ about is minor in comparison to the benefit they provide. My email was directed as a notice to provide Marine Patrol with information that could help to improve MP/Civilian relations. Lots of people hate police, marine patrol, etc and this "issue" gives fuel to the fire, so to speak, for those people. If I were an MP director I would want my officers to be the picture of courteous boaters on the waterways. This "habit" that several officers seem to have adopted is discourteous at best. I really hope that, as the email stated to me, this issue was addressed to the MP officers and they change their "habits" sooner than later. It actually benefits the department more so than the civilian boater IMO.

I agree with all of the above. It's interesting to look at the U.S. Coast Guard as an example. This is their mission:

"The overall mission of the Coast Guard is to protect the public, the environment, and the United States economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and United States coasts, ports, and inland waterways." I have spent a fair amount of time in waters where the Coast Guard maintains an active presence. I don't know anybody, including myself that has ever had anything but the highest regards for Coasties.

just a job
 

I was just wondering if the mps are career oriented individuals that look upon we boaters as families and freinds enjoying the lake.They being there to keep us safe ,making sure we follow the rules and dont get hurt ,by being curtious and polite or stern when nessassary.Like the owner of a business that knows you pay his salery .-------------------OOOOOOOOOOR------------Are they more of the this is just a suumer job ,something to get me by till i can be a cop . more like a bouncer at a night club that would just as soon toss you out for nothing because its more fun . IMO theres probably some of each.Either way they do serve a purpose , I guess.

Mp
 

the easiest way to play the game is to just back off the throttle anytime they are around and 2-3 minutes later they're gone. If you get stopped I would be overly nice so they don't have any reason.

May not be the way you feel at the moment but if you are nice to the fuzz, your chances of them not writing you up go up dramatically. FWIW, in 7 years of boating I have never been stopped for any reason so maybe I've just been lucky.

Say What, When Your Butt Is In The Wind....
 

no paddles and or boat but plenty of cold water under you. Think about it folks. The Marine Patrol does a much better job than could be related to by some in this thread. Love them or not, they are here to do a job. No hitters in professional sports is one thing. Who among us has witnessed a cautious driver while in our daily commute to work! And we say to ourselves, please get this maniac off of our highways.
Life lets us lose some, and also win some. As much that we all love winni.
Let us let the Marine Patrol do their job, and let us do ours!!

Intimidated
 

That is the way I feel about the MP. Once I see them, I slow down to no wake. They never bother me. Unfortunately this waste a lot of gas. And my guest thinks I am intimidated by the MP. They are right. I'm not enjoying what I love to do if I am intimidated. :(

You aren't kidding. I boat a lot on the Merrimack, and when MP does show up, everyone warns each other, and most just avoid the end of the river they are on. Sure enough, on Saturday one of my buddies got nailed for another one of the "forced" 150' violation. He was cruising along, and the MP put himself in his way with no way around. Ended up with an $80 ticket after spending almost 45 mins with the MP.

I've only been stopped by MP once, about 10-12 years ago. We usually are on the lake one week every summer in Tuftonboro, and are fortunate to be at a place that has about 700 feet of empty waterfront on either side of the dock until the next dock. So we're fortunate to have easy access in and out of our dock area without other hazards. One day, while waterskiing, we dropped the skier a little too close to the dock, and were pulled over. Got away with just a warning fortunately, after a safety check.

For our own safety, ever since then, we just don't waterski if there is a MP boat in the area. We're quite safe, but just don't take the chance.

-Rick

I'm a bit paranoid when I see a MP boat in the area as well. I always (try to) abide by boating laws and regulations, but still feel uneasy when they're in the area. On the other hand, I always wish one was around when some idiot almost swamps my boat by going full speed 20 feet away from me!

The only times I've been stopped by the MP, or over here by state police or Coast Guard, is for standard/random inspections.

In all my years of boating, I've personally never seen and of the idiotic boaters like you've just described being stopped. I'm sure some have, I've just never seen them.

For the stops posted about above, the MP's sure must be a bored lot, and they must never see Captain Bonehead either. I doubt there's anyone in this forum that wouldn't know exactly where to keep post to fine them. If the MP is reading this board, it does certainly give hints. :rolleye2:

Sunday night we were at the Weirs and saw a boater approach a stationary MP at about 15mph. The MP was not in a trap location. The passage was going to be about 30 feet. We all said, "he is dead". Sure enough, the blue lights came on. Sometimes they do get the bone head. Or in this case, the MPs didn't even have to move.

Wow. Lots of stories of encounters. Any videos of these? Anyone call the MP Headquarters with complaints? Anyone call WMUR and ask for a story? Maybe send a copy of this thread to the MP and to WMUR?

As far as having them do a turn and follow I can attest to that one. Right at the beginning of the season I was heading from the ramp in Center Harbor to my dock at Quayside/Trexlers. MP boat spotted me as I was the only one out there. Came by me, but farther than 150'. He then turned a 180, crossed my wake and started to follow me around the point. So I simply turned to starboard and made a complete 360 crossing his wake and started following him. And him me. I figured he was going to throttle down, but he didn't and continued off toward Long Island.

You really don't have to put up with the MP. And remember the part about going on your driving record is only if you are convicted. Fight the ticket. And if you win in court mail the MP a copy of your expungment with a box of cho-chip cookies .

Lets take back the water.......:laugh:

It sounds like many of them have the typical small town sheriff syndrome. I don't think anyone could have any admiration for those actions, it's childish, and it's a waste of resources. They already are way behind the curve on getting the real problems solved, so it's ridiculous that they try to create situations where none exist.

They either need to grow up, or get the heck out of the biz.

Originally posted by Lakesrider
I always tell family and friends that are headed to the lake, especially early and late in the season, that when they see a MP boat head in another direction because they are generally bored and are looking for "something" to do and you could become that "something"!

Originally posted by VtSteve
Many of them are seasonal employees...college kids...etc. Not year round MPOs. That may account for what I call the small town sheriff cowboy attitude that some have.

We have a problem, right here in River City
 

I am normally sympathetic to the job the MP, or any enforcement agency, needs to do. They are often in a no-win situation in that no one wants to be stopped or hassled. But everyone wants them to get the “other guy” who is a bonehead. I also believe that the majority of the officers are well-intentioned professionals who take pride in what they do.

However, this thread,and a recent, personal, experience make me wonder if it’s time to take a hard look at the culture developing in the NH Marine Patrol.

My 16-year-old son is a member of the “Lake Host” crew on Merrymeeting Lake. http://www.nhlakes.org/lake-host-program.htm Keep in mind that the Lake Hosts are trained with state funds, and they are expressly told that they should absolutely check the boats of the Marine Patrol officers pulling into / out of the lake. This is reinforced because; a) the Marine Patrol is used to monitor their effectiveness and an officer can report them if they fail to check the boat. b) as much as or more than any, the Marine Patrol boats are in and out of potential infected water bodies on a regular basis.

The Lake Hosts are also trained that they are representatives of the Lakes Region and NH Lakes organization, and they try to be as pleasant and friendly as possible when approaching “guests” launching their boats.

My son worked last Saturday, the 4<SUP>th</SUP>. I was appalled when he recounted the following exchange with a Marine Patrol officer at the public ramp.

My son, walking up to the officer preparing to launch his boat: “Hi, Welcome to Merrymeeting Lake. Sure is great to finally see the sun today isn’t it?”

The only response from the officer was a grunt and a sour look.

My son, thinking (ok, so no small talk…): “Would you mind if I check your boat before you put it in the lake?”

Officer, responding in a very angry and aggressive way: “Why? I come here all the time” (clearly sending the message that as MP, he should be above this type of check.

My son explained why they check the boats, and also added that they are expressly told to check the MP boats. At this point the officer cut him off and angrily told him, “Well, hurry up then!”

He checked the boat and the officer launched without another word.

He was similarly sour when he came out.

Not exactly the behavior and attitude I would expect from a professional officer when dealing with a young kid just trying to do his job.

Unfortunately, my son did not note this officers name.

Look at it as a great life lesson for your son to learn. He's not going to encounter friendly people in his life all the time and will at some point have to learn how to deal with the grumps! From what you post it appears as if your son handled himself professionally and in a courteous manner. That's the lesson he should take away from this experience. You can't control how other's act but you can ALWAYS control how you act. Kudos to you for raising such a responsible young man!!

Ditto...and Merrymeeting...please please please report this to the MP headquarters. That type of attitude is very unprofessional and completely unnecessary.

Maybe we should look into this service
 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/lo...-50074717.html

We can play cat and mouse with the MP and their "speed traps".

That's an awesome application. I think it's a great way to get around the problem that radar detectors are illegal in that area. The fact that the police are upset that they are going to lose revenue because people will be stopping for red lights and slowing down is amusing.

Lakesider, I love your approach. Way to beat the M.P.'s at their own silly game !!! And the choco-chip cookies are just the icing on the cake.:laugh:

Donzi
 

Usually we see the old Performer over in Moultonborough Bay, but Saturday an unmarked Donzi passed us with 2 officers and a dog. We were anchored over near Camp Tecumseh (sic?). Is this a special MP unit?

Fish and Game
 

We noticed the Donzi too. Nice boat with a 250 HP outboard. Saw it later in the evening, docked for the nite at 19 Mile while going for icecream. It has a Fish and Game sticker on the front. Perhaps they needed something to catch the bassers?

Makes sense
 

I guess I was thinking it was a drug dog but maybe its the same dog I saw out on the ice this winter. From what I understand it could tell if you landed a salmon outside your hole.

I boat on Ossipee, and the MP officers there have been very cordial. I've never been stopped, but spoke with several of them at the ramp and had some good conversations. I don't doubt any of the horror stories here, though.

a boys first ticket
 

many many many years ago when I was about 14, my uncle borrowed a freinds 10ft boat with a 10 or so hp engine. we launched on the pemi at rt104 ramp. off we went with my uncle letting me drive for the first time. about 5 minutes up river a mp passed by, and waved nicely. seeing as how I was driveing my uncle and his freind were drinking beer. once by us we noticed he was coming back with blues. not knowing the law my uncles friend took his newly opened beer can and tried sinking it :rolleye2:. well it stayed under long enough for the mp to arrive it then launched out of the water like the barrel on (JAWS). after explaining to my uncle that the boat needs to be registered, even in the river, which my uncle disputed :confused:, he explained that the driver would receive the ticket (my uncle tryed to take it), and if he would stop arguing with him he wouldnt give me a ticket for littering. He then politely explained that drinking on the boat was permitted, littering wasnt, and we could get a reg up the street. we were lucky enough to have live vests and a whistle. after wishing us a nice day he then said "by the way, please retreive your beer can". :laugh:
so I had a ticket first time out

This past Saturday in Alton Bay
 

We went to the concert in Alton Bay, complete with picnic lunch. While sitting there for about 2.5 hours (from 6:15 to 8:45), eating and listening to the concert, we also got to see a MP officer patrolling in and around the Bay, from Sandy Point to Downings. He made a few passes passed the docks, returning waves from some of the parked boaters, including me. He spotted a boater with docking lights on coming down the bay toward the docks, and simply went over by him and informed him he shouldn't be running with the lights on, except when docking, and then went about his business. I did see him with blue lights on out by Sandy Point, and it looked like he stopped someone going between the red marker and Sandy Point on plane. He ended up back in the end of the bay again, and had a rental boat heading out and they couldn't get their white light (on top of bimini) to turn on. He spent about 10 minutes with them, and let them go, I presume because the rental had an 875 phone number on it, and it wasn't quite dark. As it got dark, and he was starting to leave, he suddenly turned and headed over toward the town beach. A car pulled up in that parking lot (east side) and had a kayak on the top. It parked like they were going to put in the kayak, but a quick light up with his spotlight and a quick blue light flash sent them on their way. He then made his way out of the end of the bay and headed off past Sandy Point.
What impressed me was this officer was certainly more concerned with educating the boaters who needed his attention, and at least from what we saw, did it in a friendly, yet professional manner. Probably enhanced some boating experiences, rather than ruining them. :)

That is FANTASTIC! I love to hear stories like this. Whomever this officer is he/she should be commended for their efforts. I really like to hear that M.P. is proactively enforcing laws without needlessly issuing tickets. Thanks for this post it helps to put things in perspective. I always hope that most M.P. officers realize that they are in fact ambassadors to the lakes region!