Require canoes and kayaks to be registered

SIKSUKR · 08-26-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'm all for it. If you have to register your sunfish, then why do canoes, kayaks and rowboats get a free ride?

Sunfish?Like kibbys?My goldfish will not be happy to know he needs a sticker !

Evenstar · 08-26-2008, 02:20 PM

SENATE BILL 255-FN-A
“AN ACT requiring non-motorized vessels to display conservation decals issued by the fish and game department.”
The bill was voted INEXPEDIENT TO LEGISLATE on March 22, 2007.

Personally I would support registration of all non-motorized boats - if the funds collected were used to help fund the marine patrol, or targeted toward public access - rather than toward the Fish and Game Department's general fund.

I feel that rescues need to be treated separately. People who require rescuing (whether they are hikers or boaters), due to their own negligence, should be billed for the cost of their rescues.

But this gets complicated by the fact that there are volunteer groups that make up a large portion of the personnel who are involved in rescues in NH. Because of all the volunteer manpower, NH actually has one of the lowest costs for rescues of any state.

AC2717 · 08-26-2008, 02:24 PM

Would this include our little inflatable 2 to 4 person rafts/row boat that we use to get out to moorings? Because that would be a nice way for them to stick it to us? They need to better define what they are talking about and aiming for. I have a 2 person Seylor inflatable that you would put a tiny trolling motor on made by them, I do not want to have to register that, it is about 8 feet long I think, I left if up with one arm. That would be rediculous,
now canoes and others yes, but honestly I think having to register a kayak is just crazy if it is just a one person or two person thing, that is way over board, there should just be a fee associated with the rescue after everyone is safe.
there is no way someone in danager ios going ot pass up being saved because they will have to pay a $10, $20, or any amount for thier life after the rescue.
Me thinks this is the better way to go

Orion · 08-26-2008, 02:43 PM

Do we register all kayaks?
What about sit-upon types?
What about surf boards?
What about swim boards?
What about swim fins?
Your bathing suit?

fatlazyless · 08-26-2008, 02:58 PM

It is my understanding that small boats like canoes, kayaks, small sailboats, rowboats, and the like are covered for liability by the standard NH home owners insurance policy. If it has a motor, then it is no longer covered and needs its' own policy.

It would seem that a boat that needs its own insurance should also need its own registration. Seems to make some type of legal sense.

Just the same, a ten or twenty dollar annual sticker for a used Grumman canoe costing 100 dollars would be fine as long as the money goes to canoe support services.

RI Swamp Yankee · 08-26-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

.....
Your bathing suit?

Some that I have seen would require that the stickers be very small

Audiofn · 08-27-2008, 06:27 AM

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I think that since a person in a canoe or kayak can cost the state tons of money in search and rescue dollars they should pay for registration. They want to be able to use the services then they need to help pay the bill. On the other hand as far as I am concerned it is just a tax and I think that we have enough of those already!!!

Orion · 08-27-2008, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofn

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I think that since a person in a canoe or kayak can cost the state tons of money in search and rescue dollars they should pay for registration.

How much money are we really talking about? I don't recall too many stories each year with regard to such craft. I'm confident the current fees cover it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofn

On the other hand as far as I am concerned it is just a tax and I think that we have enough of those already!!!

Amen!

I wouldn't be opposed to registering canoes and kayaks as long as we simultaneously reduce the fees to existing registered craft. Don't ever give the government more paths to your wallet.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I have equal numbers of watercraft that require registration as those that currently do not require it.

BroadHopper · 08-27-2008, 07:14 AM

My family lives on the Broads since 1898. My grandfather, father and I can tell you countless stories about rescuing paddlers. Lately it seems like I rescue a paddler every weekend. Usually happens when the lake starts to get rough when the winds pick up or boat traffic increases.
I don't charge for my service. Most that are rescued are not familiar with the lake. Nor are they experience paddlers.
I have certificates in white water kayaking and I think everyone should take the basic course. Just as powerboaters have to take a course.
Paddlers safety course and some kind of water use sticker can go a long way in adding to the enjoyment and safety of paddlers.

Audiofn · 08-27-2008, 07:23 AM

Orion: I have no idea what the actuall costs are associated with a search and rescue but there have been a few this year. I posted about the two that happened in Maine just a few weeks ago, one ladie saved the other gentleman unfortunately did not survive. Coast guard spent I think it was two days searching. I am sure it was not cheap.

I feel that the person that needs to be rescued should never be saddled up with the fee for that. People make mistakes some times honest ones, some times mechanical failures, some times thier own stupidity. My friend was out Kayaking on the Charles river this weekend and a girl in a skull ran into him and hurt his back bad, flipped him over and he had to get pulled in because it hurt him to paddle. Certainly he or her should not be paying any rescue fee it was a honest yet easily avoidable collision.

Woodsy · 08-27-2008, 09:39 AM

Contentious issue to be sure!! Some of you guys & gals are looking at this proposal in a very narrow scope....

NH Fish & Game is the go to agency in charge of most search & rescue missions here in NH. If your lost in the woods, up in the mountains or the water they will come look for you. They do a tremendous amount of work with an ever shrinking budget. NH Fish & Game had until recently relied soley on fishing & hunting licenses for funding. This year they asked for 1.6 Million form the General Fund for stopgap funding as there are less hunting & fishing licenses issued every year, coupled with the additional burden of having to to foot the bill for Search & Rescue. Hence the new law looking to recoup some of those funds from the rescued people....

I have no problem affixing a $5 or $10 NH Water Access sticker per year to canoes, kayaks and other human powered watercraft if the monies go to fund NH Fish & Game. The canoeists & kayakers who have access to ALL the state waterways are the ones who see the benefit.

NH Marine Patrol is funded by motorboat registrations... they patrol the bigger waterways, dealing primarily with motorized watercraft. The NHMP source of funding should not change! If the NHMP need more $$$, petition for an increase in registration fees...

Woodsy

jrc · 08-27-2008, 11:23 AM

APS, my post clearly says "when I register my boat..." and later I disclose the canoe. I'd say it's pretty clear I own both a register-able boat and a paddle boat. I already pay the $11 as part of the powerboat registration, I'd be willing to pay it again to register the canoe, if that was the law.

I'm not sure what going under bridges has to do with this discussion, are you just saying you liked the video I posted?

Audiofn, I agree with you whole heartedly about not increasing taxes. But we have to fund the Search and Rescue somehow. If we take it from the general fund it's a broad based tax, if we take it as a fee from the people who need the service, it's more palatable to me.

We've discussed billing people for their rescue. I think it makes sense in the case of careless and reckless behavior. But if we bill everyone, and our insurance companies pay the bill, then we will have to pay higher insurance rates. So we still pay. Maybe there should be private rescue companies that we pay a for as needed or on retainer. Sounds like a good business venture...

Audiofn · 08-27-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

APS, my post clearly says "when I register my boat..." and later I disclose the canoe. I'd say it's pretty clear I own both a register-able boat and a paddle boat. I already pay the $11 as part of the powerboat registration, I'd be willing to pay it again to register the canoe, if that was the law.

I'm not sure what going under bridges has to do with this discussion, are you just saying you liked the video I posted?

Audiofn, I agree with you whole heartedly about not increasing taxes. But we have to fund the Search and Rescue somehow. If we take it from the general fund it's a broad based tax, if we take it as a fee from the people who need the service, it's more palatable to me.

We've discussed billing people for their rescue. I think it makes sense in the case of careless and reckless behavior. But if we bill everyone, and our insurance companies pay the bill, then we will have to pay higher insurance rates. So we still pay. Maybe there should be private rescue companies that we pay a for as needed or on retainer. Sounds like a good business venture...

Yes I agree a use tax has always been more "palatable" to me. The problem always seems to be that they find some way to redirect the "tax" to some other group. For example they found that the monies that was to be collected for Milfoil research and control in Maine was going all over the place and only a percentage to the intended cause! That to me is very upsetting. If you are going to charge me 5 bucks for milfoil stickers then please make sure that it all goes to fighting milfoil. In this case please make sure that the monies that would be collected as a boat registration went to the NH wild life and or the NHMP's.

Seaplane Pilot · 08-26-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Sunfish?Like kibbys?My goldfish will not be happy to know he needs a sticker !

Neither will your "catfish"

View Poll Results: Should all boats be required to pay a fee to use NH waterways?
Yes	208	25.58%
No	527	64.82%
Did not know some already pay a fee to use NH waterways.	59	7.26%
Fee should directly benefit Fish & Game and Marine Patrol.	133	16.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 813. You may not vote on this poll

08-26-2008, 02:20 PM	#2
Evenstar Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Littleton, NH Posts: 382 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	SENATE BILL 255-FN-A “AN ACT requiring non-motorized vessels to display conservation decals issued by the fish and game department.” The bill was voted INEXPEDIENT TO LEGISLATE on March 22, 2007. Personally I would support registration of all non-motorized boats - if the funds collected were used to help fund the marine patrol, or targeted toward public access - rather than toward the Fish and Game Department's general fund. I feel that rescues need to be treated separately. People who require rescuing (whether they are hikers or boaters), due to their own negligence, should be billed for the cost of their rescues. But this gets complicated by the fact that there are volunteer groups that make up a large portion of the personnel who are involved in rescues in NH. Because of all the volunteer manpower, NH actually has one of the lowest costs for rescues of any state. __________________ "Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."

08-26-2008, 02:24 PM	#3
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,577 Thanks: 755 Thanked 355 Times in 267 Posts	does this include Would this include our little inflatable 2 to 4 person rafts/row boat that we use to get out to moorings? Because that would be a nice way for them to stick it to us? They need to better define what they are talking about and aiming for. I have a 2 person Seylor inflatable that you would put a tiny trolling motor on made by them, I do not want to have to register that, it is about 8 feet long I think, I left if up with one arm. That would be rediculous, now canoes and others yes, but honestly I think having to register a kayak is just crazy if it is just a one person or two person thing, that is way over board, there should just be a fee associated with the rescue after everyone is safe. there is no way someone in danager ios going ot pass up being saved because they will have to pay a $10, $20, or any amount for thier life after the rescue. Me thinks this is the better way to go __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

08-26-2008, 02:43 PM	#4
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Where does it stop? Do we register all kayaks? What about sit-upon types? What about surf boards? What about swim boards? What about swim fins? Your bathing suit?

08-26-2008, 02:58 PM	#5
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,768 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,018 Times in 740 Posts	It is my understanding that small boats like canoes, kayaks, small sailboats, rowboats, and the like are covered for liability by the standard NH home owners insurance policy. If it has a motor, then it is no longer covered and needs its' own policy. It would seem that a boat that needs its own insurance should also need its own registration. Seems to make some type of legal sense. Just the same, a ten or twenty dollar annual sticker for a used Grumman canoe costing 100 dollars would be fine as long as the money goes to canoe support services. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

08-27-2008, 06:27 AM	#7
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I think that since a person in a canoe or kayak can cost the state tons of money in search and rescue dollars they should pay for registration. They want to be able to use the services then they need to help pay the bill. On the other hand as far as I am concerned it is just a tax and I think that we have enough of those already!!!

08-27-2008, 07:14 AM	#9
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,583 Thanks: 3,227 Thanked 1,106 Times in 796 Posts	Paddlers rescue My family lives on the Broads since 1898. My grandfather, father and I can tell you countless stories about rescuing paddlers. Lately it seems like I rescue a paddler every weekend. Usually happens when the lake starts to get rough when the winds pick up or boat traffic increases. I don't charge for my service. Most that are rescued are not familiar with the lake. Nor are they experience paddlers. I have certificates in white water kayaking and I think everyone should take the basic course. Just as powerboaters have to take a course. Paddlers safety course and some kind of water use sticker can go a long way in adding to the enjoyment and safety of paddlers. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day. Last edited by BroadHopper; 08-27-2008 at 07:15 AM. Reason: clarification

08-27-2008, 07:23 AM	#10
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Orion: I have no idea what the actuall costs are associated with a search and rescue but there have been a few this year. I posted about the two that happened in Maine just a few weeks ago, one ladie saved the other gentleman unfortunately did not survive. Coast guard spent I think it was two days searching. I am sure it was not cheap. I feel that the person that needs to be rescued should never be saddled up with the fee for that. People make mistakes some times honest ones, some times mechanical failures, some times thier own stupidity. My friend was out Kayaking on the Charles river this weekend and a girl in a skull ran into him and hurt his back bad, flipped him over and he had to get pulled in because it hurt him to paddle. Certainly he or her should not be paying any rescue fee it was a honest yet easily avoidable collision.

08-27-2008, 09:39 AM	#11
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Contentious issue to be sure!! Some of you guys & gals are looking at this proposal in a very narrow scope.... NH Fish & Game is the go to agency in charge of most search & rescue missions here in NH. If your lost in the woods, up in the mountains or the water they will come look for you. They do a tremendous amount of work with an ever shrinking budget. NH Fish & Game had until recently relied soley on fishing & hunting licenses for funding. This year they asked for 1.6 Million form the General Fund for stopgap funding as there are less hunting & fishing licenses issued every year, coupled with the additional burden of having to to foot the bill for Search & Rescue. Hence the new law looking to recoup some of those funds from the rescued people.... I have no problem affixing a $5 or $10 NH Water Access sticker per year to canoes, kayaks and other human powered watercraft if the monies go to fund NH Fish & Game. The canoeists & kayakers who have access to ALL the state waterways are the ones who see the benefit. NH Marine Patrol is funded by motorboat registrations... they patrol the bigger waterways, dealing primarily with motorized watercraft. The NHMP source of funding should not change! If the NHMP need more $$$, petition for an increase in registration fees... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

08-27-2008, 11:23 AM	#12
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	APS, my post clearly says "when I register my boat..." and later I disclose the canoe. I'd say it's pretty clear I own both a register-able boat and a paddle boat. I already pay the $11 as part of the powerboat registration, I'd be willing to pay it again to register the canoe, if that was the law. I'm not sure what going under bridges has to do with this discussion, are you just saying you liked the video I posted? Audiofn, I agree with you whole heartedly about not increasing taxes. But we have to fund the Search and Rescue somehow. If we take it from the general fund it's a broad based tax, if we take it as a fee from the people who need the service, it's more palatable to me. We've discussed billing people for their rescue. I think it makes sense in the case of careless and reckless behavior. But if we bill everyone, and our insurance companies pay the bill, then we will have to pay higher insurance rates. So we still pay. Maybe there should be private rescue companies that we pay a for as needed or on retainer. Sounds like a good business venture...

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode