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Require canoes and kayaks to be registered
Does any one know if there is a proposed bill to get canoes and kayaks to start paying for their use of the lake? MP will need more $ to enforce some new laws. I thought I heard of some sort of bill a while back....I think it's a great idea. More laws = more money needed.
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I havent heard of any bills for it. The idea has been discussed here a few times.
Most people who own them seem to have come out against the idea. Those of us who only own boats that do need to be registerred, have expressed less than universal opposition. |
There is something in the works, I know with the increased number of rescues this year with paddlers in the swollen rivers. The F+G would like a way to pay for all the rescues.
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I'm all for it. If you have to register your sunfish, then why do canoes, kayaks and rowboats get a free ride?
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SENATE BILL 255-FN-A
“AN ACT requiring non-motorized vessels to display conservation decals issued by the fish and game department.” The bill was voted INEXPEDIENT TO LEGISLATE on March 22, 2007. Personally I would support registration of all non-motorized boats - if the funds collected were used to help fund the marine patrol, or targeted toward public access - rather than toward the Fish and Game Department's general fund. I feel that rescues need to be treated separately. People who require rescuing (whether they are hikers or boaters), due to their own negligence, should be billed for the cost of their rescues. But this gets complicated by the fact that there are volunteer groups that make up a large portion of the personnel who are involved in rescues in NH. Because of all the volunteer manpower, NH actually has one of the lowest costs for rescues of any state. |
does this include
Would this include our little inflatable 2 to 4 person rafts/row boat that we use to get out to moorings? Because that would be a nice way for them to stick it to us? They need to better define what they are talking about and aiming for. I have a 2 person Seylor inflatable that you would put a tiny trolling motor on made by them, I do not want to have to register that, it is about 8 feet long I think, I left if up with one arm. That would be rediculous,
now canoes and others yes, but honestly I think having to register a kayak is just crazy if it is just a one person or two person thing, that is way over board, there should just be a fee associated with the rescue after everyone is safe. there is no way someone in danager ios going ot pass up being saved because they will have to pay a $10, $20, or any amount for thier life after the rescue. Me thinks this is the better way to go |
Where does it stop?
Do we register all kayaks?
What about sit-upon types? What about surf boards? What about swim boards? What about swim fins? Your bathing suit? |
Poll: Fee for all boats...
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It is my understanding that small boats like canoes, kayaks, small sailboats, rowboats, and the like are covered for liability by the standard NH home owners insurance policy. If it has a motor, then it is no longer covered and needs its' own policy.
It would seem that a boat that needs its own insurance should also need its own registration. Seems to make some type of legal sense. Just the same, a ten or twenty dollar annual sticker for a used Grumman canoe costing 100 dollars would be fine as long as the money goes to canoe support services. |
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When I register my boat there is a fee and a tax, plus there are these extras:
$5 to the lake restoration and preservation fund $1 to the search and rescue fund $5 to the public boat access fund I think all boats should pay these fees, it's only fair. It really isn't that hard, just require a sticker attached to the hull. No need for numbers etc. The fee is fixed so you don't need VIN numbers or any paperwork. You walk into a boat dealer or a town office you give them $11, they give you a sticker. You stick it on any boat you want. Obviously boats covered by the current laws would still need the current sticker and numbers and the new stickers would need to be different from the current stickers. As to what needs a sticker, the MP already has a rule. If you use it inside the swim lines (or where there could be swim lines) it's a beach toy. If you use it outside the lines or far from shore it's a boat and today you need a PFD. You would also need the sticker. For full disclosure, I have canoe and I would be willing to pay the fee. This really has nothing to do with the new law. People should pay their own way. |
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Two wrongs...
Clarifications edited in red.
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too-seldom of billings that get paid by one person. Quote:
It's mean-spirited to bring it up again. Why penalize against the many who cannot afford more gasoline or "more boat", and try to enjoy this scenic lake gently. It's showing even more "sour grapes" to demand that I sell a taxed house to pay another tax on an insignificant boat that in many other states doesn't require any addition tax for registration. Maine—already losing population—is hardly the state to start copying their regulations and registrations. :confused: Youngsters who have read the book First You Must Row a Little Boat by Bode, would be discouraged from boating by having to register their exempt rowboat. First You Must Row a Little Boat was written to show why countless aspects of operating lesser boats avoids the future confusions that larger cruisers feel at the dock—and beyond. (At just $9, it could be a stocking-stuffer for the aspiring young boater). 2) Why penalize the many paddlers who peaceably boat on NH's quieter lakes, ponds and streams to benefit some perceived increase of rescues on "the lake"? There are many more non-powered craft in garages, lofts, barns, backyards or stored on automobile racks. A rack of six rowing sculls near me would have to pay $66 for the privilege of rowing between 6AM and 8AM only on the days that were calm enough! :fire: My own eclectic flotilla would be $55—money that would be better spent at area restaurants and other Lakes Region businesses. 3) Vermont, which has many more raging rivers and streams than NH (and many-more rescues), doesn't require registration for paddlers. DART helicopters evacuate many injured Vermont paddlers by air to Dartmouth/Hitchcock Hospital in New Hampshire. Are Vermont individuals assessed for their rescues by New Hampshire entities? :confused: 4) What happens to the frequently-cited Coast Guard statistics when the number of "registered boats" in NH doubles or triples? :confused: There are many more unpowered boats than powered boats in New Hampshire. They're just not on all NH lakes, not on all NH lakes all at once, and not every day. Rental companies would be penalized also, reduce their inventory and would raise their fees to compensate. NH didn't require "no-engine" sailboats to be registered until about 1985: were Legislators "thinking clean" back then? I don't think so: they simply wanted more money from the public. With a new requirement adding 200,00+ new registrations, there's at least one category of CG statistics that would become swollen by imponderables: "Falls From Boat". :confused: Those returning to "the lake"—or those distant from "the lake"—shouldn't be hampered. 5) Canoes with a trolling motor require registration! I think that's wrong as well—if for no other reason than the filthy environment that petroleum-fueled craft leave behind. A government can tax to discourage, or not-tax to encourage. Lake Winnipesaukee shores and waters can be benefited by environmentally-clean boats. As I wrote years ago on these pages: double registration fees for the most excessive boats—later—double them again. A 45 MPH solar/hybrid/wind turbine powered 50' boat should not be taxed, although anyone who can afford one today shouldn't be bothered by the present tax. (Especially when the energy required for it is inexhaustible). BTW, an 8-foot inflatable—with a trolling motor—requires registration today. Quote:
Please don't answer. :rolleye1: Quote:
All my seven boats will fit under the Wolfeboro bridge, and do most of my summer-boating on Lake Winnipesaukee. Quote:
2) With 45-minute NHMP response times considered "reasonable", any rescue should be taken out of the issue. Quote:
BTW I: Some "Sunfish" and their clones are made in lengths that are exempt from registration. I don't think the small-boat manufacturers should be hampered in any additional manner. BTW II: We don't use the same 150-foot-passage "at any given time". And we CERTAINLY don't use it at the same rate! BTW III: Selecting text for answering is termed "parsing text". |
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I think that since a person in a canoe or kayak can cost the state tons of money in search and rescue dollars they should pay for registration. They want to be able to use the services then they need to help pay the bill. On the other hand as far as I am concerned it is just a tax and I think that we have enough of those already!!!
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The more they have, the more they'll spend
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I wouldn't be opposed to registering canoes and kayaks as long as we simultaneously reduce the fees to existing registered craft. Don't ever give the government more paths to your wallet. In the spirit of full disclosure, I have equal numbers of watercraft that require registration as those that currently do not require it. |
Paddlers rescue
My family lives on the Broads since 1898. My grandfather, father and I can tell you countless stories about rescuing paddlers. Lately it seems like I rescue a paddler every weekend. Usually happens when the lake starts to get rough when the winds pick up or boat traffic increases.
I don't charge for my service. Most that are rescued are not familiar with the lake. Nor are they experience paddlers. I have certificates in white water kayaking and I think everyone should take the basic course. Just as powerboaters have to take a course. Paddlers safety course and some kind of water use sticker can go a long way in adding to the enjoyment and safety of paddlers. |
Orion: I have no idea what the actuall costs are associated with a search and rescue but there have been a few this year. I posted about the two that happened in Maine just a few weeks ago, one ladie saved the other gentleman unfortunately did not survive. Coast guard spent I think it was two days searching. I am sure it was not cheap.
I feel that the person that needs to be rescued should never be saddled up with the fee for that. People make mistakes some times honest ones, some times mechanical failures, some times thier own stupidity. My friend was out Kayaking on the Charles river this weekend and a girl in a skull ran into him and hurt his back bad, flipped him over and he had to get pulled in because it hurt him to paddle. Certainly he or her should not be paying any rescue fee it was a honest yet easily avoidable collision. |
Contentious issue to be sure!! Some of you guys & gals are looking at this proposal in a very narrow scope....
NH Fish & Game is the go to agency in charge of most search & rescue missions here in NH. If your lost in the woods, up in the mountains or the water they will come look for you. They do a tremendous amount of work with an ever shrinking budget. NH Fish & Game had until recently relied soley on fishing & hunting licenses for funding. This year they asked for 1.6 Million form the General Fund for stopgap funding as there are less hunting & fishing licenses issued every year, coupled with the additional burden of having to to foot the bill for Search & Rescue. Hence the new law looking to recoup some of those funds from the rescued people.... I have no problem affixing a $5 or $10 NH Water Access sticker per year to canoes, kayaks and other human powered watercraft if the monies go to fund NH Fish & Game. The canoeists & kayakers who have access to ALL the state waterways are the ones who see the benefit. NH Marine Patrol is funded by motorboat registrations... they patrol the bigger waterways, dealing primarily with motorized watercraft. The NHMP source of funding should not change! If the NHMP need more $$$, petition for an increase in registration fees... Woodsy |
APS, my post clearly says "when I register my boat..." and later I disclose the canoe. I'd say it's pretty clear I own both a register-able boat and a paddle boat. I already pay the $11 as part of the powerboat registration, I'd be willing to pay it again to register the canoe, if that was the law.
I'm not sure what going under bridges has to do with this discussion, are you just saying you liked the video I posted? :laugh::laugh: Audiofn, I agree with you whole heartedly about not increasing taxes. But we have to fund the Search and Rescue somehow. If we take it from the general fund it's a broad based tax, if we take it as a fee from the people who need the service, it's more palatable to me. We've discussed billing people for their rescue. I think it makes sense in the case of careless and reckless behavior. But if we bill everyone, and our insurance companies pay the bill, then we will have to pay higher insurance rates. So we still pay. Maybe there should be private rescue companies that we pay a for as needed or on retainer. Sounds like a good business venture... |
I would support a sticker with an identification number on it.
This would accomplish two things; 1. There would be a record in a database of the owner so that if the canoe, kayak or other currently unregistered vessel is found floating the NHMP or Coast Guard (I would not limit this regulation to inland waters) would be able to contact the owner to see if there is reason to launch a search and rescue or if the vessel just got loose. 2. It would help pay for the above search and rescue operations. As the popularity of these kinds of boats grow so does the accident and rescue rate. |
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1. How it is mean spirited to ask you to contribute to the patrolling of this great lake we all love- you are using the same 150' diameter at any given time that I am. I am sorry if you can't scrape together $11 to register your boat, you may need to give up one of your homes. Do you really believe that the only rescues that occur in this state are for powerboats and on lakes? 3. you skipped 2 so I will as well. Vermont?? - well 2 wrongs don't make a right:) 4. What are you talking about, this statement makes no sense and I guarantee if you re-read you can't make sense of it either. Confused- yes I am. 5. This is a classic- so basically you are calling a boat registration an environmental impact fee. So when I build my 45 MPH solar/hybrid/wind turbine powered 50' boat I will not need to register it because I am creating no emmissions? Yeah, that makes sense. More laws?, no only one more virtually enenforceable law that will take away from the enforcement of better thought out rules such as the 150' rule. Can your boat fit under the Wolfeboro Bridge?:rolleye1: What is a meme? I certainly have no issue with 2 Americas theme- those that have worked their a@@ off to achieve what they have and those who free-load off of them. Kind of like the unregistered boats on this lake freeloading off the polluting powerboats. If you are so concerned about carbon footprints, you can do your share in reducing them by stopping your treks between here and Florida. Regarding the NHMP and rescues: 1. My boat is registered in NH, with an NH address. The point was to know who to look for. You think if a kayak is found floating in the middle of the broads with any gear on board that the MP will send a postcard. Thankfully they will expend the same hard work and manpower trying to rescue an unappreciative ahem "person" such as you as they would any one else. 2. I will take a 45 minute response time over no response. We boat on a 44000 acre lake, not your bath tub. But of course with more boats registered, perhaps we could hire 2 or 3 times as many MP officers (please see your #4 below they are you surmised #s). If you are wearing the PFD you should be, 45 minutes most certainly be timely enough for a rescue. Finally, I apologize to our webmaster Don for getting sucked in here because again 2 wrongs don't make a right (yes I am admitting I am wrong APS, have you ever??) |
Meme
Meme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme A meme (pronounced /miːm/)[1] is any thought or behavior that can be passed from one person to another by learning or imitation. Examples include thoughts, ideas, theories, gestures, practices, fashions, habits, songs and dances. Memes propagate themselves and can move through the cultural sociosphere in a manner similar to the contagious behavior of a virus. ... This word is so obscure it would not likely be used even by an intelligent person, in normal conversation since you would not realisticlly expect it to be comprehended. This is only the second time I have encounterred it. The other time was a Sci-fi book with some bizarre alternate levels of reality. It can be stretched to apply here but the simpler term "theme," would have been close enough to get the point across. Probably just a typo. |
1) Google returns 50,600 references for the pronouncement of the word—nearly 3 million for the definition. The "Two Americas meme" returns 163 references, at least one of which resides at a brief and good-reading New Hampshire website.
2) To tax kayaks at this time is a mean-spirited goal: cobbled with with weak justifications and poorly-conceived poll questions, we'll be seeing this brought up for a third time later. :rolleye1: |
In life, two things are certain...
...death and taxes.
I don't dump oil and gas into the lake, or leave any "footprint." Why should I have to register my sailboat? What's next? Mandatory registration of foam noodles and waterskis? If I have a kayak that I take out once a year, I have to pay at least $11 just for that one trip, or I risk being cited for operating an unregistered vessel? Give me a break, New Hampshire. So when these boaters decide to go to Champlain instead of paying to boat on NH lakes, where will NH find the money to pay for the extra [insert wasteful spending program here]? Not in favor of more restrictions and taxes. I don't like the government telling me how to spend my money. Boat ramps should be private and charge boaters a fee to launch, for example. I'll keep my money, thanks. http://img26.picoodle.com/data/img26...sm_05789ce.jpg Also, any kayaker worth his salt will know that you NEVER go out solo. You ALWAYS a) row with a buddy, in b) safe conditions for one's ability, AND c) with a PFD securely on. Or at least 2 out of the 3. If everyone followed these rules of common sense, we wouldn't have these problems. Unfortunately, too many don't. In our politically correct world, we call these people "Captain Boneheads." And homeowners should not leave anything that can be blown into the water near the water, for if it gets away it can cause navigational hazards, as well as false rescues. |
It sure is nice of this organization to influence the vote on SENATE BILL 255-FN-A.
It would also be nice if they pay the F&G’s S&R costs related to paddlers. http://www.paddlesportsindustry.org/...topia10807.htm Quote:
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As for the knowing if some one needs to be searched for or not there is a much easier way to do this. Require owners of these boats to put a name plaque on it with contact information. |
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Are you kidding?
A Tax is a Tax is a Tax...so is this idea!
Enough is enough! |
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NO NEW TAXES!!!!!!!! Leave us alone. |
New Hampshire don't need no fee/tax on paddle boats like canoes & kayaks. Go take your taxing ideas back to Taxachusetts.........live free or die;)!
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Please fight against registering non-motorized vessels
During a time when the government is supposed to be pushing green this and green that, why in God's name would they want to require us to register green watercrafts? They give us tax credits and incentives for buying greener automobiles and changing to greener fuels or energy saving appliances. It makes no sense to charge people for green water crafts. They should not charge for sailboats either unless they have a motor.
I suggest we fight any attempts to require that we register more non-motorized vessels. If they get it in by keeping it at say $5 per kayak, then you know darn well it will not be long before they raise it. If they need money for search and rescue efforts then let them charge people who need to access those services. I have never heard of anyone on the lake I kayak at ever needing a search and rescue team. Maybe on very large lakes, swift currents, or oceans they may need rescue but charge those who require the service or absorb the cost elsewhere. |
Against!
Personally I believe that our state should look into how it manages its money and fix that problem before trying to generate more.
As for power boaters, we, have always believed and still do that the boater safety course is a shame and a complete waste of time. Not enough boaters even care enough to learn and practice the basic things that would make boating safer for everyone. A driving test for all boat operators would go further to promoting safer boaters on the waters. We have a kayak and use it for exercise. It isn't about the money but the fact that this state stinks at managing what they already have. How does the old saying go, the more you make, the more you spend? |
"Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman" |
Is this proposal simply revenue enhancement for the state? NH booted out the Democrats and brought in the Republicans so that there would be less government. So that all state departements would work within their budgets. Does this proposal have anything to do with the sate police taking over Marine patrol? Bigger, faster, and better boats for our aquarium state police.
Here we have folks attempting to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Row boats and canoes have been on lake for over a hundred years with few problems. What comes after this? Registering docks and piers with large reflective numbers - and a fee for such? Placing large reflective numbers on the lakeside of camps and cottages so Marine Patrol can read house numbers? What about water skis and tubes? Register them too? All with more fees of course. |
Add $5.00 if you want to swim. you get a bracelet at the docks or the beach, where you pay. Just like the ski areas.
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Whew good that means nothings changed and hopefully never will. |
Hear ye......hear ye......hear ye.......please let it be known that kayakers in the great State of Florida are required to pay something like 15-dollars every year for a new sticker.......otherwide they can get busted for kayaking without a sticker.
As a God fearing, red-blooded Republican, this 15-dollar kayak sticker makes a whole lot of sense because it is simply not a tax, it is a FEE, and as a God fearing, red-blooded Republican, let me make it perfectly clear that while I am against any and all new taxes, there are certain situations where a new FEE is necessary, and the Florida style, New Hampshire kayak, 15-dollar annual sticker is one of these situations..........hear ye......hear ye......to this new FEE..........amen! |
FEE or TAX, what's the difference. It's money out of your pocket to the government.
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It seems pretty simple and could be a new revenue source for the Marine Patrol. You know their NH MP patrol boats', twin Mercury 150hp two-strokers probably used up a lot of gas running a 27' police boat all around the big lake all summer long.......and gas is expensive for everyone......even kayaks! How's about if the MP officers had to get around by paddling their patrol boats with a canoe paddle? ...... because they could not afford the gasoline......how would that work for a police boat? |
Not really worth answering.
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I have kayaked with a friend in Florida many times and don't remember seeing a sticker on his Kayaks...or that he ever complained about having to have one. You could be right, but I would like to see the Florida law that states that. |
My family recently had to sell its Winnipesaukee property (after 67 years...but that's another story altogether), and as part of the "cleaning out," I brought back to Pennsylvania a kayak and a canoe (the motorboat was brought to the marina to be sold :( ). Soon thereafter, I learned that both now require "Launch Permits" to be used on any Fish and Boat Commission waters in the Commonwealth.
Really? A 9.5-ft plastic kayak requires a permit? Yep. Keep in mind, this is the state in which you buy beer by the case and in which Sunday liquor sales are a rare and recent development. So...the cost: $10 for the calendar year (per vessel) or $18 for the two-year. All expire on Dec. 31, so the $18 permits I purchased will both expire at the end of 2013. A quick bit of research revealed that this is pretty common along the east coast. But having grown up and done 99% of my boating on New Hampshire's waters, I naturally assumed man-powered boats were exempt from registration/permits. Live and learn. |
Hard to take
Sorry to hear that the family had to sell. Sounds like a familiar tale. Family bought property on the lake 70 years ago, erected and maintained a modest dwelling and over the years have been taxed into near oblivion. It's a damn shame. All the best and good luck in PA.
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Common theme since 1998
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The family cottage is now a multimillion dollar eyesore! =( |
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Many believe Winni should have adopted the same rules as Squam, where you cannot see the house from the lake. |
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I don't know where you got the $15 fee from, but it would be nice if you posted a link to it if you have one. |
ok....I am probably incorrect about my info on the Florida $15 annual kayak or canoe sticker......somewhere in the vague recesses of my memory I thought this was the case.....last time in Florida for me was in 1986....oh well....but still considering how the Marine Patrol time on Lake Winnipesaukee was cut way back this summer.....it should be considered.....people spend big bucks on fancy kayaks and fancy kayak paddles and fancy pfd's ......so spending $15 for a kayak sticker fee to help the Marine Patrol pay their gasoline bill for those twin two-stroker 150-hp Mercury optimax outboards on their 27' Defender 270cc center console www.safeboats.com police boats should be considered....because they probably use up lots of gasoline...plus the cop on-board needs to be paid too...
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How many times do you here about someone doing something dumb and the MP was right there and did nothing. How often do you see kayaks being ticketed for violations? They tax no MP resources. |
I wouldn't have any problem registering my kayak and canoe. A small price to pay for theft protection if you ask me. And if the proceedings go toward the wellness of the lake and community, well I'll buy two more and register all of them! :laugh:
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