Headway Speed

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Skip
6 MPH is 6 MPH
Quote:

It is 6 MPH. You are interpretating the law wrong.

Let's give another example. On many waterways in the State there are numerous signs indicating Headway Speed zones.

And what do those signs say?

They simply state "Headway Speed - 6 MPH".

They don't say "Headway Speed of 6 MPH or whatever minimum speed you need to maintain steerage".

They clearly state "6 MPH".

The additional language, as I will state for the final time, is to provide leeway for those craft that cannot maintain steerage at 6 MPH.

And it's as simple as that!

If you use Airwave's logic, that it is speed allowable to maintain steerage up to 6 MPH, then my good friend's Egg Harbor could never navigate many NH waterways legally, as he cannot maintain steerage under most conditions unless he is several MPH above 6.

It's interesting that we are debating how SLOW you can go!

Headway speed is NOT 6 MPH.

Headway speed is "...the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way."
You are correct that the additional language in the law is provided for vessels that headway speed is not 6 MPH...UP OR DOWN!

To be truthful with you, I have never seen signs on Winnipesaukee or the other NH waterways that I have boated on that state "HEADWAY SPEED - 6MPH". The signs I have seen say "NO WAKE" but it doesn't matter since under NH law they mean one and the same.

As you have pointed out on any number of occasions during various debates, just because a boating booklet, on in this case a sign, does or does not say "Headway Speed - 6 MPH" it is only a guide. The RSA is the LAW.

You misunderstand my interpretation of the law if you think that I say your friend with the Egg Harbor is violating the law by going headway speed at 9 MPH. Certainly not! If the Egg Harbor can not maintain steerage at a speed below 9 mhp then the speed that the Egg Harbor CAN MAINTAIN STEERAGE is the Egg Harbor's headway speed.

If on the other hand a boat, say a displacement hull with twin screws and bow and stern thrusters, can maintain steerage at under 6 MPH then whatever that speed below 6 mph is, that is the vessel's headway speed.

A displacement hull boat traveling at 6 mph can certainly kick up an impressive wake!

The law was written to make sure that boats are operated at the slowest possible speed when required to go headway speed in order to leave the least possible wake.

The original question by jrc was:
If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

The short answer is No and Yes.

What is so hard about this?

[Pineedles]

All I know is that when I get pulled over for exceeding the NO WAKE ZONE because my PWC can not be manuvered without power, and I might be a little heavy on the throttle and exceed 6 mph when I try and make a course correction, then I want legal beagels like you guys to argue my case.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...
The law was written to make sure that boats are operated at the slowest possible speed when required to go headway speed in order to leave the least possible wake.

Quote:
The original question by jrc was:
If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

The short answer is No and Yes.

What is so hard about this?

While I think the second part is clear, you can exceed 6 MPH if the vessel and conditions require it to maintain steerage way. I never needed this exception.

I'm still not convinced on the 6 mph. I think it is a hard limit. Headway speed is any speed 6 mph or less.

So let's take an example. A canoe can maintain steerage at less than 1 mph, so by Airwaves interpretation, they could not exceed 1 mph in a No Wake Zone.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

To be truthful with you, I have never seen signs on Winnipesaukee or the other NH waterways that I have boated on that state "HEADWAY SPEED - 6MPH". The signs I have seen say "NO WAKE"

Awaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said.

I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there?

I was watching MP stop people for No Wake and was surprised as some were just making an almost invisible wake. I asked him about it and he said no wake is no wake. If it was very small he just warned them though.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by jrc
I'm still not convinced on the 6 mph. I think it is a hard limit. Headway speed is any speed 6 mph or less.

So let's take an example. A canoe can maintain steerage at less than 1 mph, so by Airwaves interpretation, they could not exceed 1 mph in a No Wake Zone.

Okay, let me try this. I have an 18 foot bowrider. She is rated for 8 adult POB and a 150 hp Outboard motor. 50 gallon fuel tank.

I have a full tank of gas. A full complement of adults on board so the boat is heavy in the water and I am traveling at 6 MPH.

Under your "hard limit" headway speed, I would be in compliance with the headway speed/no wake zone even though with the weight, displacement and speed of my boat I am going to be kicking up a foot or more wake, and even though I can maintain control of my boat at a lesser speed than 6 MPH?

Now, on the other hand, You and I are on board Skip's Egg Harbor and we come to a no wake zone. Skip can not control the vessel at 6 mph. Does he violate the law if it kicks it up to a speed where he can control the boat? No, that's fine.

Originally posted by tis
Awaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said.

I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there?

I was watching MP stop people for No Wake and was surprised as some were just making an almost invisible wake. I asked him about it and he said no wake is no wake. If it was very small he just warned them though.

I am only quoting NH Law, not my opinion. The law says Headway Speed and No Wake Zones are one and the same. Not my opinon. Many large boats (cruisers come to mind) on the lake these days might have issues with headway speed at under 6 MPH. They are also the mostly likely to have bow and stern thrusters and twin engines.

The NHMP will make the call about what is headway speed and no wake. I have been yelled at going through the Weirs Channel by a drunk on the shore because I was making a "wake". I looked, there was a small wake and I was traveling less than 6 MPH.

So....what I am saying? The law was written to require boats travel the slowest possible speed in order NOT TO MAKE A WAKE in the designated areas.

Read the wording of the law again, carefully read it and then tell me you think it sets a limit at 6mph in a no wake zone. Or after you read it do you think that it REQUIRES you to operate at the slowest speed possible be that above or below 6 MPH?

[ishoot308]

From the Marine Patrol Website: http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...l/faq.html#A19

"What is headway speed?
Headway speed is 6 mph or the slowest speed to travel and still maintain steerage."

Dan

[Airwaves]

Yep, that's the law, and that's what Skip and I have both said. The question is....

who wants to say it???


I'm waiting......


I guess that depends of what the definition of OR is!

[ishoot308]

If its a "no wake area" you are required to go a slow as possible to the point where your boat causes no wake BUT maintains steering capabilities. You are however allowed to cause a minor wake if your boat must maintain a higher speed for steering.

If you are in a "headway speed area" (I.E. 50' from another boat) you can go up to 6 MPH, wake or not, as long as your boat can maintain steering, if not, you can go faster but be ready to explain if stopped.

Airwaves, "headway speed areas" and "no wake areas" are not the same. Being 50' from another boat does not constitute a no wake area, it is a headway speed area. You are allowed to cause a wake in a headway speed area as long as your not exceeding 6 MPH or the minimum speed for steering capabilities.

Wow that hurt to write!

Dan

[jrc]

Saf-C 401.08 "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

So I can go 6 MPH, I don't need the "OR" and I've complied with the law.

I was just hoping for a definitive answer to clear up a campfire "discussion". I have no plans to hot rod around Smith Cove with 500 other boats going 6 MPH.

There so many "old wives tales" about the lake, sometimes it boggles the mind. The other day a experienced (old) laker told me it was a law to carry an anchor with enough rode to reach the bottom of the lake. My new boat only has 150' of rode.

[Orion]

6 mph is 6 mph. It's enforceable.

The minimum speed to maintain steerage in no wind is 0. I can keep my boat in a fixed position with no problem, as can most boats. Under Airwaves definition, if I want to go through a "no-wake" zone, I'd have to slip it in and out of gear (or paddle it) to barely perceptably move my boat through the area with no ripples.

What is a wake? My canoe makes a wake. Is the wake the sign talking about 1", 2", 4", 6", 2 feet?

I guarantee no boat on this lake makes 1' waves at 6 mph. There is a wake at 6 mph, but nothing that would cause any harm.

I still stand by the interpretation that "or" is to cover hard to control situations and as skip said, better have a good defense.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

"...Airwaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said..."

'Tis going back some years, tis.

Winnipesaukee Motor Craft was bought out to build condo apartments: even though the structures, dry storage and gas pumps are gone, the condos keep it busier yet!

(Probably off to buy gasoline!)

My recollection is that the "Headway-Speed" sign was hand-made and had black and white lettering: It was anchored about 500' before reaching the marina. Residents along muddied homes in that area asked for some respite from Director Flynn, but were denied a NWZ—perhaps more often than the one hearing that I attended.

I didn't speak up because about 20 people had spoken with one voice in the matter—with nobody in opposition. It was a "slam-dunk" as we departed the hearing.

Originally Posted by tis

"...I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there...?"

New Hampshire is giving you a break: the Federal law, upon which most state laws are based, stated five knots, which is about one MPH slower.

Edited to add:
Five knots IS nearly six MPH; however, the state rounded off to 6-MPH, rather than using the customary 5-MPH of speedometers (and the customary 5-MPH for roadway speed limits), giving freshwater boaters a break.

Originally Posted by Pineedles

All I know is that when I get pulled over for exceeding the NO WAKE ZONE because my PWC can not be manuvered without power, and I might be a little heavy on the throttle and exceed 6 mph when I try and make a course correction, then I want legal beagels like you guys to argue my case.

Jet-Skis are poorly manuvered at slow speeds, so this "driver" will agree with you!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...New Hampshire is giving you a break: the Federal law, upon which most state laws are based, stated five knots, which is about one MPH slower...

Actually, 5 knots equals 5.8 MPH, a difference of only 2/10's of a MPH, not the 1 MPH that you indicate.

Therefore, for all practical purposes, 5 knots does equal 6 MPH, and if I remember correctly the State chose to use MPH for inland waterway RSAs as virtually all pleasurecraft that ply these water (at least at the time) utilized factory installed speedometers that generally read in the MPH range.

[Pineedles]

"Jet-Skis are poorly manuvered at slow speeds, so this "driver" will agree with you!"

Actually APS, its not slow speeds that make for poor manuvering on Jet-Skis, its no throttle that makes them non-steering at all. As I found out many years ago when I headed towards shore, released the throttle and expected to steer to port just before I hit the shoreline. Yes, I know about the 150' rule now but I didn't then. What a close call, I jumped off the Jet-Ski and held on to the seat handle and avoided serious injury to both me and my Jet-Ski. I tell my kids this story and they look at me with this expression of incredulous amazement that Dad could have been so stupid. Hey that's what growing up is all about. Being lucky enough to survive all the stupid mistakes you made as a kid.