It Figures....

[gtagrip]

Two trolls show up in the SL thread and it gets shut down. Where have I seen this before!

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Two trolls show up

So the moderator shuts a thread down because of this very type of personal attacking, and you immediately open a new thread to resume the exact same personal attacking? And are you going to blame someone else when this thread gets shut down too? I think this entire sub-forum was a mistake that should be shut down. It is nothing but an attractant and meeting place for the most vulgar and offensive layer of the region (and of Vermont). Let these bullies take up residence on some national forum where it will not be a scar on NH. NH is too good to have ambassadors like this. Don, please admit that this was a mistake and make this website a beacon of civility once again.
Joe

[VtSteve]

You usually see it any time factual disclosure is involved

It seems fine to do drive by random attacks, posting completely false rumors continuously. But let anyone refute with out and out facts, and Boom... closure. Note: That's not my Opinion, it is what it is.

[VtSteve]

It's pretty useless to give the time of day to people that ridicule The Coast Guard Rules of Navigation, and tell people that they support drunken boating. So in that light, I will now simply ignore those that come up with these ridiculous taunts.

Now onward and upward.

The thing to do is simply put out the information, and let people decide for themselves what's going on. Those of us on the boater safety side, typically have agreed with Marine Patrol Director Barrett, as well as the United States Coast Guard navigational and safety rules.


There's a reason that many that only support speed limits do not discuss accidents on lakes that already have speed limits. Hint, in almost every case, the cause of the accident was BUI and/or a violation of the USCG rules.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

The thing to do is simply put out the information, and let people decide for themselves what's going on.

All righty:

"Thanks to the Speed Limit, we've never had such a safe and successful boating season on Lake Winnipesaukee in memory."

[BroadHopper]

Whose 'We' APS?

You surely don't represent the whole lake. There are hundreds of us who are sick and tired of a small group of people saying they represent everyone who use the lake. My family grew up on the lake since 1892 and we are upset when folks just move to the lake and tell us what to do.

If you don't like the lake the way it is. Move on. I like it the way it is.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

All righty:

What about all the chaos in the BP area? I here it's not so safe there!

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

What about all the chaos in the BP area? I here it's not so safe there!

Be careful gta you're using logic. These folks want their cake AND they want to eat it too.

The Speed Limit is working but only in select areas where they want you to believe it is working. The Barbers Pole is a drag strip where cowboys drive at WOT! It's the only place on the lake where this occurs.

-------> Watch the above comment as it will be snipped and re-posted by APS as an admission by me that the BP needs a NWZ. <--------

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Be careful gta you're using logic. These folks want their cake AND they want to eat it too.

The Speed Limit is working but only in select areas where they want you to believe it is working. The Barbers Pole is a drag strip where cowboys drive at WOT! It's the only place on the lake where this occurs.

-------> Watch the above comment as it will be snipped and re-posted by APS as an admission by me that the BP needs a NWZ. <--------

Sorry, I lost my head there for a moment!

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Be careful gta you're using logic. These folks want their cake AND they want to eat it too.

The Speed Limit is working but only in select areas where they want you to believe it is working. The Barbers Pole is a drag strip where cowboys drive at WOT! It's the only place on the lake where this occurs.

-------> Watch the above comment as it will be snipped and re-posted by APS as an admission by me that the BP needs a NWZ. <--------

A drag strip...that's a good one HN! You can re-name the Barber's Pole to: "New Hampshire Motorboat Speedway". Might as well give Loudon a run for their money.

Honestly, I think the drag strip should be relocated to Winter Harbor.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

What about all the chaos in the BP area? I here it's not so safe there!

The "usual suspects" can't understand peaceful boaters, and can't even seem to keep to the topic!

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Whose 'We' APS?

You surely don't represent the whole lake. There are hundreds of us who are sick and tired of a small group of people saying they represent everyone who use the lake. My family grew up on the lake since 1892 and we are upset when folks just move to the lake and tell us what to do.

Sorry, Sir, I'll get my boats out of your way—right away.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

The "usual suspects" can't understand peaceful boaters, and can't even seem to keep to the topic!



Sorry, Sir, I'll get my boats out of your way—right away.

Just like all you're incoherant ramblings are always on topic. That's the pot calling the kettle black!

[sunset on the dock]

I read through our present SL law today and was happy to see that we ALREADY have safe and prudent...why do we need anything more?

X.(a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.

Glad that's settled...we just needed to review the law we already had. We don't need any more feel good laws!!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I read through our present SL law today and was happy to see that we ALREADY have safe and prudent...why do we need anything more?

X.(a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.

Glad that's settled...we just needed to review the law we already had. We don't need any more feel good laws!!

You are correct....we have discussed this provision several times in the past on this site.

Right, wrong or indifferent it shows me two things...that the current sponsors have not carefully researched existing legislation, and this proposal is intended to do only one thing. Repeal the existing speed limits on Winnipesaukee.

We can all agree or disagree or even discuss compromise over the existing speed limits, but first we need to be honest with what our intents truly are. In my opinion honesty and openess remains completely lacking in the proposed legislation. A very important reason why it will ultimately be ruled inexpedient to legislate.

Its too bad. I truly believe if SBONH had been honest and open and willing to sit down to the table then a true "modification" could have been brought forward, one that maybe opened up the Broads and looked at the existing limits. But by using the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach, SBONH is soon to find out the realities of politics in a small State like ours....

[melvin bay]

this letter in the sun seems a little different from the one in Sundays monitor:Letters
Republican mandate doesn't include repeal of boat speed limit
Dec 16, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

The concept of allowing boaters to decide for themselves how fast is “reasonable and prudent” is the only thing that can work on the ocean. Enforcing a set speed limit on the open seas is impossible. The best that can be done there is to have a law that can be applied after the fact, to decide whether an accident was the result of a crime. But Lake Winnipesaukee is not the ocean. It is a lake. Speed limits are enforceable here, they are working, and people have been obeying them. Allowing “thunder boaters” to decide for themselves how fast is “reasonable and prudent” is not necessary here, we can do much better than that, and we have been doing much better than that for three years. And with all the real issues our legislature has to worry about right now, is this something they should be mucking around with anyway?

Two years of a 45 MPH speed limit law after a one year Marine Patrol “informal test” have proven that those very few very aggressive cowboys who caused so much mayhem respect a black and white speed limit. Only twenty-some speeding tickets had to be issued over this period, proving what those that use the lake saw, what most people expected . . . how much more civil and “recreational” boating on Winnipesaukee was for all once again, and how people obey laws that are clear and unambiguous. Why even think about changing that? Especially with all the serious issues our legislators need to address.

The problem on Winnipesaukee has never been the responsible boater behind the helm of a fast boat . . . it has been the irresponsible cowboy who always wants to see what he can get away with. Cowboys are just big kids. Kids need to be given curfews and defined limits. . . 9 o'clock. . . four cookies. . . take a bath. They cannot decide from themselves. They are not mature or responsible enough. Telling a cowboy “Just go as fast as you feel is reasonable and prudent” is like telling a kid to just eat as much candy as he thinks he should. Kids have a different idea of what "reasonable and prudent" means than we do, Because we have adult minds, and they have adolescent minds.

Last summer, boating traffic on Winnipesaukee was as balanced and civil as we have seen for over 20 years. All of us got to enjoy our boats and enjoy the lake. Kids camps were sailing and canoeing again. Dealers were selling canoes and kayaks again. Waterside restaurants were struggling to find dock space again. Sailing clubs held regattas and sailing schools again. Rowers in skulls were out there in numbers never seen before. Fathers were taking their sons fishing again. And off-shore boats were still out there, going 45 MPH, which any boater knows is pretty darn fast on the water. No longer were the majority of family boaters being ruled by the aggressive boating of such a small minority, so why even think about going back? Especially with the real problems N.H. has for our elected officials to fix.

The election of Republicans to Concord in such a landslide was not a mandate to repeal such a functional law that even Republican voters favor so overwhelmingly. We elected Republicans to return fiscal responsibility to New Hampshire, not to return “thunder boating” to Winnipesaukee. Cowboys behind the wheels of thunder boats are not the “Republican” standard. That standard is embodied in the father who wants to get behind the wheel of his runabout to take his family for an ice cream, or take his kids tubing. Now he can do that again. Please don’t go back to the mayhem that so many hundreds of people described. . . the mayhem that the current law virtually eliminated.

Those who want Coast Guard rules should go to the ocean. Besides, there are important matters facing New Hampshire right now, and unleashing the “thunder boaters” to terrorize us once again is not one of them. That is not what we voted for.

Ed Chase

Meredith

[AllAbourdon]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

this letter in the sun seems a little different from the one in Sundays monitor:Letters
Republican mandate doesn't include repeal of boat speed limit
Dec 16, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

The concept of allowing boaters to decide for themselves how fast is “reasonable and prudent” is the only thing that can work on the ocean. Enforcing a set speed limit on the open seas is impossible. The best that can be done there is to have a law that can be applied after the fact, to decide whether an accident was the result of a crime. But Lake Winnipesaukee is not the ocean. It is a lake. Speed limits are enforceable here, they are working, and people have been obeying them. Allowing “thunder boaters” to decide for themselves how fast is “reasonable and prudent” is not necessary here, we can do much better than that, and we have been doing much better than that for three years. And with all the real issues our legislature has to worry about right now, is this something they should be mucking around with anyway?

Two years of a 45 MPH speed limit law after a one year Marine Patrol “informal test” have proven that those very few very aggressive cowboys who caused so much mayhem respect a black and white speed limit. Only twenty-some speeding tickets had to be issued over this period, proving what those that use the lake saw, what most people expected . . . how much more civil and “recreational” boating on Winnipesaukee was for all once again, and how people obey laws that are clear and unambiguous. Why even think about changing that? Especially with all the serious issues our legislators need to address.

The problem on Winnipesaukee has never been the responsible boater behind the helm of a fast boat . . . it has been the irresponsible cowboy who always wants to see what he can get away with. Cowboys are just big kids. Kids need to be given curfews and defined limits. . . 9 o'clock. . . four cookies. . . take a bath. They cannot decide from themselves. They are not mature or responsible enough. Telling a cowboy “Just go as fast as you feel is reasonable and prudent” is like telling a kid to just eat as much candy as he thinks he should. Kids have a different idea of what "reasonable and prudent" means than we do, Because we have adult minds, and they have adolescent minds.

Last summer, boating traffic on Winnipesaukee was as balanced and civil as we have seen for over 20 years. All of us got to enjoy our boats and enjoy the lake. Kids camps were sailing and canoeing again. Dealers were selling canoes and kayaks again. Waterside restaurants were struggling to find dock space again. Sailing clubs held regattas and sailing schools again. Rowers in skulls were out there in numbers never seen before. Fathers were taking their sons fishing again. And off-shore boats were still out there, going 45 MPH, which any boater knows is pretty darn fast on the water. No longer were the majority of family boaters being ruled by the aggressive boating of such a small minority, so why even think about going back? Especially with the real problems N.H. has for our elected officials to fix.

The election of Republicans to Concord in such a landslide was not a mandate to repeal such a functional law that even Republican voters favor so overwhelmingly. We elected Republicans to return fiscal responsibility to New Hampshire, not to return “thunder boating” to Winnipesaukee. Cowboys behind the wheels of thunder boats are not the “Republican” standard. That standard is embodied in the father who wants to get behind the wheel of his runabout to take his family for an ice cream, or take his kids tubing. Now he can do that again. Please don’t go back to the mayhem that so many hundreds of people described. . . the mayhem that the current law virtually eliminated.

Those who want Coast Guard rules should go to the ocean. Besides, there are important matters facing New Hampshire right now, and unleashing the “thunder boaters” to terrorize us once again is not one of them. That is not what we voted for.

Ed Chase

Meredith

Where's the facts? =( I guess it's just a letter to the editor but there are a lot of unsubstantiated claims in here.

[melvin bay]

Can anyone verify or hopefully refute these quotes from yesterdays Concord Monitor.I dont belong to off shoreonly forum.


There's no question reasonable and prudent does not apply to this crowd and the comment about "doubling the speed limit" is the tip of the iceberg. The head of SBONH, known as OCDACTIVE on some of the speed boat forums, writes on offshoreonly.com :
Regarding drinking: 1/25/10 OCDACTIVE writes : "I had started at noon and went to shots at 8 PM then forgot to eat".
1/25/10 "But you know one thing leads to another, things get a little crazy, you become forgetful and wake up on the floor in the dogs bed with a raging headache".
1/28/10, in response to a comment about the"poor stock " at Hooters: "Well if we are there from noon until 11 PM they are bound to look a little better".

This is not the kind of talk that gives one the impression that the head of a safe boating organization has a clue about reasonable and prudent. Should this group be lecturing us about boating safety and what laws we should enact? My concern after reading these comments was that this person was in danger of (figuratively) crashing and burning in a manner similar to Ms. Blizzard. And the new and former state reps. who have been linked with SBONH and have attended their events...they need to take a fresh look at what an association with this group really represents.
People on the lake are tired of this kind of behavior from a small minority of immature men who wish to race their oversized overpowered boats all around the lake and that's why they pushed for speed limits. Today's article in the Monitor is a clear example of how reasonable and prudent will not work for this crowd. I don't trust SBONH!

[DEJ]

Melvin, it is unfortunate that you didn't read the next comment immediately following that refutes the quotes and questions the intent of the comments to begin with. I hope that this was just an oversight on your part and not just an attempt to stir the pot and try to misdirect the true debate.

Another case of if you cant win the arguement go personalBy bobf - 12/22/2010 - 8:38 pm
Millie your reply is just one in a string of "when you cant win the arguement go personal"
You and your fellow supports of speed limits have nothing to stand on with regards to speed limits on the lake, nothing, no facts no figures ....no nothing, so when you cant win the battle of whats right and wrong here, you go personal. Taking some old posts from a web forum, snipping them up so they read out of context is not very honest now is it. Any one who knows the president of SBONH, KNOWS that he does not drink and drive ANYTHING, not ever, not even maybe. ITs NEVER. So lets move on here shall we.....

[VtSteve]

As I recall, he's pretty famous for having O'Douls and any other non-alcoholic beverage. Whichever troll you are Melvin, you really barked up the wrong tree there. You have to be quite a person to put something like that in a paper.

And for instigators worried about who's being an adult, where are you now?

Relentless personal attacks and lies, quite a group you have there. It's enough to make anyone wonder if anything you guys say has any degree of truth to it. Amazingly weak cases when you have to resort to things like that, simply amazing.

[ishoot308]

Well Melvin, all I can say is I invited the President of SBONH over to my camp on Winni for a beer and a meet and greet last year. He informed me at that time that he never drinks anything not even one beer before or while operating his boat but would gladly have an O'douls (non alcoholic) if I had any. That meeting never happened because of the weather that day but I can assure you he was dead serious about no alcohol!

Your post is B.S. and is only here to stir the pot. Sorry, but I'm not biting. I only posted this because I know the facts not the fiction like you!

Dan

[hazelnut]

Add me to the list of people that has offered OCD a beer at my camp on Cow Island and he flat out refused stating:

"It's O'Douls for me when I'm behind the wheel of anything, There's plenty of time for a beer after the OCDACTIVE is tied up safely at my dock."

Scott is EXTREMELY sensitive to this matter and has a self enforced ZERO tolerance policy when it comes to alcohol and operation of his vessel. What a sad, sad state of affairs that these people have slumped to this level.

[chipj29]

Hi melvin,
Just one question: Do you feel it is OK to drink alcohol (and possibly become impaired) when you are not driving?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hi melvin,
Just one question: Do you feel it is OK to drink alcohol (and possibly become impaired) when you are not driving?

I think Melvin was impaired when he posted!

All I can say again is..............figures!

[melvin bay]

when I logged on this am to this site I was a bit surprised to see so much xmas venom. I received a few emails since yesterday that answered some of yesterdays questions....see below. Some of the ?s were also answered in the UL article/comments yesterday.

01-28-2010, 03:16 PM #218
OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
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1999 28 Active Thunder Savage Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaoderhead
Poor stock here at the Hooters......you're better off waxing

Well... If we are there from noon until 11pm they are bound to look better...
__________________
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05-28-2009, 06:37 AM #16
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by livefreeordie
Same here im not going to let this stop me from enjoying the wide open brods. It felt good to get out there and see no boats in sight and double the limit lol.... Im sure if your not stupid about the places you open her up you will never get a ticket.

Agreed.. I almost doubled it as well....

Loving the new boat.. It is amazing to feel how much power is left even when cruising at 60 mph
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

Others which I will copy to save space:
Excursion writes on offshore only: Theres no tylenol at this party, we have a saying Cant drink all day if you dont start in the morning to which OCDACTIVE replies "Very true..I had started at noon and went to shots around 8 PM...then forgot to eat...I know better than that". R Addiction responds "I never forget to eat! Shots!!!!! Gluton for punishment! OCDACTIVE replies to this "No kidding..I have enough experience to know that as well..But you know one thing leads to another, things get a little crazy, you become forgetful...wake up on the floor in the dogs bed with a raging headache..LOL...
I assume many people will feel the same way next Sunday!"

Some of the posts in the UL indicate that these posts were edited("enhanced" as one person noted) shortly after they appeared in the UL or Conc. Monitor and that seemed to them rather spineless in that the head of SBONH needs to own up to his remarks. I have to agree. The cover up looks worse, that is editing the posts nearly a year later. Can't seem to cover up the fact that they were edited 2 days ago according to the UL posts.
I'm told that the actual copies of these offshoreonly forums will be or have been sent to some of our reps in concord. One has to thjink that reps like Packard, Boutin, Forsythe, Hikel will consider SBONH to be a political liability after seeing this and the deja vu to NHRBA will seem apparent to some.
The fact that these quotes have not been addressed by SBONH's prez (not to mention some of the responses to yesterdays post by me)makes me think that any sympathy I might have had for the group has evaporated. I have to agree that many here wouldn't recognize reasonable and prudent if it hit them over the head. As was said in the UL, mature people don't brag about their excessive alcohol intake (and moderate their alcohol intake as well). I'm not letting this group dictate to me what is appropriate behavior/laws for the lake.

[lawn psycho]

You know, I read some of these posts but stay away from the debates as it's endless and unproductive.

My boat can only do 47 MPH on a really good day over a waterfall so I'm not impacted.

However, I'd like to see these two sides have to sit across a table face to face and have these discussions. The venom spewed by both sides makes it impossible to have meaningful debate. It's gone so far beyond civil discussion that either side is willing to win at any cost.

I will also state that EVERYTHING that both sides posts on the web is fair game. That means that WinnFabs can have their feet put to the fire for misleading statements as well. Be careful what you wish for

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I have been a member of this forum for a long time. I used to post often, but now I don't. I still actively read posts, and enjoy many of the historical and informative posts. However, for years this Speed Limit Forum has poisoned this wonderful forum, it has discouraged many great forum members from being a part of winni.com. I was encouraged when this forum was shut down, and then saddened when it reappeared. Now it has become more and more disgusting. No matter what side of the issue you are on, the attacks on here are beyond the lowest level I have seen yet. Seriously, Melvin Bay, Six posts, 3 of which are nothing more than political muckraking. Before I posted today, I contacted people who know OCDACTIVE, and know of this OSO forum where these came from. I found out these quotes being used are taken out of context, and are from a Satirical conversation between two friends on a forum over a year ago. I have met OCDACTIVE on several occasions, and in no way is he the person you are trying to make him. No matter what opinion anyone has on this speed issue, this level that speed limit opponents are at is a new ALL TIME LOW. If you are that passionate about the issue, why not put your energy into something other than anonymous posting on a forum? Run for office, be the change, if that is what is important to you! That's all, down from the soapbox. Merry Christmas!

[DEJ]

When some people cannot win an arguement they go personal.
melvin bay, you should be ashamed of yourself. Taking some old posts from a web forum, snipping them up so they read out of context is not very honest now is it. Anyone who knows the president of SBONH, KNOWS that he does not drink and drive ANYTHING, not ever, not even maybe. IT's NEVER. I am shocked these personal attacks are allowed on this forum. I can only hope your post will be sent to ALL our reps in Concord who will quickly determine for themselves who has credibility and who does not, it is certainly not you melvin bay.

[classic22]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

when I logged on this am to this site I was a bit surprised to see so much xmas venom. I received a few emails since yesterday that answered some of yesterdays questions....see below. Some of the ?s were also answered in the UL article/comments yesterday.

01-28-2010, 03:16 PM #218
OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
VIP Member



Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
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1999 28 Active Thunder Savage Quote:
Originally Posted by ciaoderhead
Poor stock here at the Hooters......you're better off waxing

Well... If we are there from noon until 11pm they are bound to look better...
__________________
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05-28-2009, 06:37 AM #16
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
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Thanked 450 Times in 148 Posts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by livefreeordie
Same here im not going to let this stop me from enjoying the wide open brods. It felt good to get out there and see no boats in sight and double the limit lol.... Im sure if your not stupid about the places you open her up you will never get a ticket.

Agreed.. I almost doubled it as well....

Loving the new boat.. It is amazing to feel how much power is left even when cruising at 60 mph
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

Others which I will copy to save space:
Excursion writes on offshore only: Theres no tylenol at this party, we have a saying Cant drink all day if you dont start in the morning to which OCDACTIVE replies "Very true..I had started at noon and went to shots around 8 PM...then forgot to eat...I know better than that". R Addiction responds "I never forget to eat! Shots!!!!! Gluton for punishment! OCDACTIVE replies to this "No kidding..I have enough experience to know that as well..But you know one thing leads to another, things get a little crazy, you become forgetful...wake up on the floor in the dogs bed with a raging headache..LOL...
I assume many people will feel the same way next Sunday!"

Some of the posts in the UL indicate that these posts were edited("enhanced" as one person noted) shortly after they appeared in the UL or Conc. Monitor and that seemed to them rather spineless in that the head of SBONH needs to own up to his remarks. I have to agree. The cover up looks worse, that is editing the posts nearly a year later. Can't seem to cover up the fact that they were edited 2 days ago according to the UL posts.
I'm told that the actual copies of these offshoreonly forums will be or have been sent to some of our reps in concord. One has to thjink that reps like Packard, Boutin, Forsythe, Hikel will consider SBONH to be a political liability after seeing this and the deja vu to NHRBA will seem apparent to some.
The fact that these quotes have not been addressed by SBONH's prez (not to mention some of the responses to yesterdays post by me)makes me think that any sympathy I might have had for the group has evaporated. I have to agree that many here wouldn't recognize reasonable and prudent if it hit them over the head. As was said in the UL, mature people don't brag about their excessive alcohol intake (and moderate their alcohol intake as well). I'm not letting this group dictate to me what is appropriate behavior/laws for the lake.

When people cant win an arguement based on facts,they go personal in an attempt to discredit the message. The fact is the the speed limit people are running scared, and they will do anything in there attempt to derail SBONH and its inititives. Someone must have little to do to go drag up some really old posts from another web site,take them out of context, post them all over this site and others as well as in the comments section of online newspaper articles that have nothing to do with the president of SBONH. I can assure you that the president of SBONH does not drink and drive anything. PERIOD. Now if you would like to get back on track and debate facts about the lake and what is or is not a problem on the lake, we are all for it, but please leave the personal attacks at home, it just makes you look foolish.

[hazelnut]

I am shocked and saddened. I run a forum myself and I'd NEVER let stuff like this stay up for more than 15 seconds. This is nothing other than a direct personal attack. I can assure you many of Scott's friends are encouraging him to contact an attorney. After speaking with Scott he himself is downplaying it and has basically said it doesn't deserve one second of his attention. His thought was that smart people would see it for what it was. A satirical conversation between friends taken out of context by an individual that is scared of an organization that is actually doing great things for the lakes region.

melvin bay you are the worst kind of person. A sideline sitter that does nothing but defame and defile good people because you have nothing useful to say.

I don't even know why I care so much, Scott is a big boy and he can handle this himself. I am pissed off because this tactic is so disgusting. You are not the first person on that side of the argument to go personal, to use information garnered from this site or others and smear them. It has happened to me. We do not hide behind random screen names changed once a month. We have had the same screen names for 10+ years and have posted personal information, shared real experiences on the lake and DON lets that info get used against us. I've had to do the same in some arguments because I can't just wait around and see if Don would actually apply forum rules.

So this is probably one of my last posts ever because I'll be banned for criticizing Don. It was worth it to prove my point that this type of Forum behavior should not be allowed to go on any more. It strikes a chord with me because a few members were allowed to get away with it against me.

Nice work melvin bay, mission accomplished. You have tried to smear someones good name and you have pissed me off enough to call out the webmaster. Two birds with one stone, nice work.

What I don't understand is why is it that the long standing members that have contributed to thousands of discussions for 10+ years, that have PATRONIZED your sponsors and even donated $$$ to your site get ZERO respect and are subjected garbage spewed about them from new members with 2 posts under their belt?

I seriously think that this site needs tighter restrictions on new membership. Members that join just to flame a restaurant or a particular person in their first posts should be permanently banned. Who could argue with that?

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

So this is probably one of my last posts ever because I'll be banned for criticizing Don. It was worth it to prove my point that this type of Forum behavior should not be allowed to go on any more. It strikes a chord with me because a few members were allowed to get away with it against me.

I think Don did his part when he separated this Forum from the other ones and said this:

"This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into debates, arguments or bickering will be moved here. Warning! Avoid this area if you don't like debates and arguments!"

IMHO this is not the Forum to be in if you have thin skin.

[jarhead0341]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I think Don did his part when he separated this Forum from the other ones and said this:

"This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into debates, arguments or bickering will be moved here. Warning! Avoid this area if you don't like debates and arguments!"

IMHO this is not the Forum to be in if you have thin skin.

i have been reading this forum and using the links section for many years but have very seldom posted and have even made a statement about this being a sub forum to someone but no where in Dons notes about it does it say you can personaly attack someones character

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

IMHO this is not the Forum to be in if you have thin skin.

However, I don't believe the this or any other forum was designed to be a free for all. Posting from another forum out of context adds nothing to the speed limit debate.

Is this about character assassination or or debating a lake topic? Is the speed limit really that important? He should be careful because now the laser is pointed on him so people will be trying to dredge up stuff about him.

I know in Lewsiton, ME they have a local paper requiring that your real name be posted to online comments. That is certainly one way to skin the cat with unsubstantiated posts/slander.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I would not be the least bit surprised if melvin bay and another famous speed limit poster are one in the same. There are several similarities in the context and verbage of these two posters.

Anyone with half a brain can see through this garbage. Keep digging the hole - you'll soon need a ladder to get out.

[melvin bay]

The reading public has a right to know what a public figure, Mr. Reasonable and prudent, is saying when he thinks no one is watching. And it's not character assasination when it's one's own words (in context by the way) that are being used...it's character suicide. No one would be concerned about being sued for quoting a public figures words and I imagine OCD's lawyer would fall out of his chair laughing, esp. given that OCD attempted a coverup shortly after the info became public...even he won't stand behind what he said. And I repeat...the public gets to (and should) decidewhether breaking the law ("doubling it") is reasonable and prudent. Same goes for the bragging/banter about excessive drinking(whether behind the wheel or not). Same for sexist comments about how the "stock" at Hooters looks better after several hours of drinking(and as was said yesterday, good luck getting the female legislators on your side after that one!) And it's not out of context when the quote follows what the quote was in response to, as seen in my last post. Go read the posts on offshore and decide for yourselves what is the context. Oh I forgot, they've been edited ("enhanced").
One only needs to read the 1st post under "THis forum is a disgrace" to see the kind of below the belt punches delived by some of the Speed limit opposition...calling people slimes, liars etc....now your talking about stuff where legal action might be warranted. And it seems that a certain patriots fan is at the top of the list so why all the whining. And you want tighter restrictions on this forum and restricting who can join...wow. I joined this forum partly because the double standard that some of you hold up to your opponents and how certain positions are attempted to be drowned out by your cries of liars or slimes. Most people can see that you purposefully try to humiliate your opposition to get them off the forum. Then when you are quoted (in context) you go balistic. You can dish it out but you can't take it...period. But the public has a right to know this stuff and many I understand are outraged about the underhanded tactics of calling this bill an enhancement ...totally dishonest as per Skip's post. Doublespeak. Now add some of the quotes by the supreme leader and u get the picture. One has to love all the baloney of some of you people spew about the "dishonesty of the opposition". I would love to see an article in one of the NH papers about what lies below the surface with your group. And given some of the threatening intimidating talk from some of the people here one has to appreciate why some choose not to reveal too much personal info about themselves.

[DEJ]

From a prior post:

"After speaking with Scott he himself is downplaying it and has basically said it doesn't deserve one second of his attention. His thought was that smart people would see it for what it was."

Well said and this shows his true character.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

The reading public has a right to know what a public figure, Mr. Reasonable and prudent, is saying when he thinks no one is watching. And it's not character assasination when it's one's own words (in context by the way) that are being used...it's character suicide. No one would be concerned about being sued for quoting a public figures words and I imagine OCD's lawyer would fall out of his chair laughing, esp. given that OCD attempted a coverup shortly after the info became public...even he won't stand behind what he said. And I repeat...the public gets to (and should) decidewhether breaking the law ("doubling it") is reasonable and prudent. Same goes for the bragging/banter about excessive drinking(whether behind the wheel or not). Same for sexist comments about how the "stock" at Hooters looks better after several hours of drinking(and as was said yesterday, good luck getting the female legislators on your side after that one!) And it's not out of context when the quote follows what the quote was in response to, as seen in my last post. Go read the posts on offshore and decide for yourselves what is the context. Oh I forgot, they've been edited ("enhanced").
One only needs to read the 1st post under "THis forum is a disgrace" to see the kind of below the belt punches delived by some of the Speed limit opposition...calling people slimes, liars etc....now your talking about stuff where legal action might be warranted. And it seems that a certain patriots fan is at the top of the list so why all the whining. And you want tighter restrictions on this forum and restricting who can join...wow. I joined this forum partly because the double standard that some of you hold up to your opponents and how certain positions are attempted to be drowned out by your cries of liars or slimes. Most people can see that you purposefully try to humiliate your opposition to get them off the forum. Then when you are quoted (in context) you go balistic. You can dish it out but you can't take it...period. But the public has a right to know this stuff and many I understand are outraged about the underhanded tactics of calling this bill an enhancement ...totally dishonest as per Skip's post. Doublespeak. Now add some of the quotes by the supreme leader and u get the picture. One has to love all the baloney of some of you people spew about the "dishonesty of the opposition". I would love to see an article in one of the NH papers about what lies below the surface with your group. And given some of the threatening intimidating talk from some of the people here one has to appreciate why some choose not to reveal too much personal info about themselves.

My guess is your cortisol levels are through the roof. Melvinwhoeveryou are here is a little hint into one of life's secrets: With or without a speed limit the lake won't change. Take a deep breath and read that last sentence as it's 100% the truth.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I would not be the least bit surprised if melvin bay and another famous speed limit poster are one in the same. There are several similarities in the context and verbage of these two posters.

Anyone with half a brain can see through this garbage. Keep digging the hole - you'll soon need a ladder to get out.

I for one have no problem calling out this obsessed individual who feels that he needs to hide behind his numerous and thinly veiled nom de guerres: elchase/ed chase/sunset on the dock/c chase/melvin bay. One can only wonder what pseudonym that he will come up with next.

I for one hope that he keeps up with this nonsense as it impunes the very argument that he is attempting to make.

[Bearislandmoose]

Only on this forum can a law-abiding person get stoned to death for pointing out the blatant irony of a group of immature cowboys hiding behind the mask of a "safety" organization, and pointing out the the deceitful dishonesty of the leader of this gang, who is actively attempting to influence our state legislators, being an admitted scofflaw and boozer. Only on this forum do you find people who would defend the criminals and persecute the good guys. This forum is indeed a complete disgrace and an insulting embarrassment to the good people of the Lakes Region.

And I'm really enjoying your cartoon. It shows perfectly what a desperate and pathetic group you are. Needing to resort to producing a cartoon to show what reality cannot, and having imaginary cartoon dads complaining that they can't to take their families out in their bowriders anymore because of an evil 45MPH speed limit is the GFBL equivalent of a Frosty the Snowman Christmas Special.

I just pray that viewers from outside the Lakes Region (if there are any that would sit through this garbage) appreciate that this forum is not representative of the good people of this area. Unlike the group you find here, we are a law-abiding and passive bunch who treat others with respect. This forum is a magnet for the worst of people, but is shunned by regular locals, for the obvious reasons.

Merry Christmas

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

And given some of the threatening intimidating talk from some of the people here one has to appreciate why some choose not to reveal too much personal info about themselves.

I remember, not so long ago, that one of you wonderful people told the world that I had sent a threatening PM to someone, and was a Huge gun collector. Obviously, it wasn't true, I have never owned any guns, nor ever have I sent a threatening PM to anyone. But you guys threw it out there, just like the above rubbish.

MOST board monitors know the difference between factual statements, hyperbole, and outright lies and threats. Some, sadly, do not. We don't even know who you are MB, but you sound a lot like other posters of your ilk, and apparently, you've been blessed with this ability. The utter irony is this. Don and his pet didn't like the harsh rhetoric and debates, but he did set up this place. APS went completely ape that someone found out someone's real name, another irony, that person uses about four different names in papers and here. But I digress.

This isn't about the speed limit anymore, and hasn't been for some time. It's about power, and immature people. MB, you about take the prize. But others have shown their true character here, including the moderator himself.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

I joined this forum partly because the double standard that some of you hold up to your opponents and how certain positions are attempted to be drowned out by your cries of liars or slimes.

Please elaborate which time you joined, and under what alias. Inquiring minds would like to know.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Unlike the group you find here, we are a law-abiding and passive bunch who treat others with respect.

You start your diatribe by calling me (I am only speaking for myself here and not SBONH or any one else in the organization) an immature cowboy and then have the audacity to call yourself passive and respectful? Surely you jest.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Only on this forum can a law-abiding person get stoned to death for pointing out the blatant irony of a group of immature cowboys hiding behind the mask of a "safety" organization, and pointing out the the deceitful dishonesty of the leader of this gang, who is actively attempting to influence our state legislators, being an admitted scofflaw and boozer. Only on this forum do you find people who would defend the criminals and persecute the good guys. This forum is indeed a complete disgrace and an insulting embarrassment to the good people of the Lakes Region.

And I'm really enjoying your cartoon. It shows perfectly what a desperate and pathetic group you are. Needing to resort to producing a cartoon to show what reality cannot, and having imaginary cartoon dads complaining that they can't to take their families out in their bowriders anymore because of an evil 45MPH speed limit is the GFBL equivalent of a Frosty the Snowman Christmas Special.

I just pray that viewers from outside the Lakes Region (if there are any that would sit through this garbage) appreciate that this forum is not representative of the good people of this area. Unlike the group you find here, we are a law-abiding and passive bunch who treat others with respect. This forum is a magnet for the worst of people, but is shunned by regular locals, for the obvious reasons.

Merry Christmas

Here's the problem with a post like this. In the past you refer to anyone who does not agree with you as a cowboy, criminal, white-trash, drunk, etc. You have (albeit under another user name) personally insulted me when you refer to those who would dare anchor at a sand bar as white trash and other colorful names. Someday you might have the gall to actually stop by my boat and realize that every adult on the boat is a tad more educated than you may think

Dishonesty? I have the entire WinnFabs site copied for records. Do you want me to start posting the untruths? I went there trying to get educated on the SL issue and came away ready to vomit. It's also no wonder you want people outside the lake region (who don't own boats) to see this issue and take your side.

I know it pains you to think that people enjoying a relaxing day on the water aren't some faceless people just out trying to stomp on your piece of heaven. How about this, not everyone drinks out on the water either. I invite you anytime to come on board my boat and share some true fresh squeezed lemonade that this southern boy can make. It might upset you further to find out that's the strongest thing you'll find in the cooler.

When you keep spitting venom like this in your anger, you alienate EVERYONE.

The reality if that SBONH gives a say to both sides of the boating arguments, not just some gray-haired retirees who having a lot of time on their hands and can spend countless hours driving to and from Concord to attend hearings while the rest of us are going to work. It truly is time some of the restrictions be reevaluated

I will even go sar far as to say some of the rafting restrictions may broach into the realm of being unconstitutional. MP would have a REALLLLLLY hard time with this if challenged in court given the way rafting rules have been implemented haphazardly across the lake and prevent freedom of assembly. Safety? They have no chance at using that argument. I'll be posting about this in another thread.

The problem you have is the SL actually agitated enough people to start looking at ALL the restrictions placed on NH lakes. You wanted to get attention now you have it. Congratulations.

Any by the way, all these letters and posts you keep repeating don't amount to squat. Maybe you should consider waiting until the public hearings. I'd love for you to say the these types of things at the hearing as in a public hearing you would turn off everyone in the room. I can't wait to get my turn in Concord.

[Yankee]

Well said LP!

[hazelnut]

This thread has caused me to do quite a bit of reflecting. It really saddens me that someone like BIM, EL, Melvn Bay or whatever the nom de plume of the week actually exists.

Here is the reality. Most of us (SBONH members, Boaters, Casual Observers, etc.) have lives. Very, very busy lives. Luckily I have a few days off now to relax. However, most of the people in the organization have full time jobs, a wife, kids, etc. So between work, athletic events, social events, heck just taking care of the house etc. we are very busy people. The Speed Limit ranks about 100th or so on my list of cares. Every once in a while I check into the debate and see that some people are so obsessed and so consumed that they post horrific personal attacks about people that they do not even know! That is just so sad.

I have noticed that some people will stop at nothing to try and prove a point. That includes direct slanderous remarks and dredging up info and parsing it together to assail someones character. What shame. Look in the mirror at yourself. You claim that you hope the readers of this site look at you as the real representative of the area. The horror, I shudder at that thought. I truly hope that people outside the area that have read those awful Letters to the Editor and read the drivel and nasty commentary by you and appreciate you for who you are; An angry old man with hours and hours of time on his hands with nothing better to do than obsess over one issue so much so that he will turn his back on his fellow human being and drag out mud and sling it around like a 3 year old in a dirt pit. You must have grandchildren? Children? Why not go enjoy them and have some fun and forget about all of this for a while. The legislative session will give everyone ample time to talk all of this through.

For you to compare me truthfully calling out liars and slimy sneaks who try to legislate behind closed door just shows how delusional you truly are. You really do not have any idea how hypocritical you are do you? I truly feel like you are so consumed with this issue to the point where it has become an unhealthy obsession for you. I am not kidding when I tell you that therapy should be in order.

The reality is that my interests are so wide and varied, skiing, snowmobiling, computers, technology, sports, and of course boating. The Speed Limit thing does not even crack the top 100 most of the time. It's a fun discussion and it gets crazy but wow, you sir scare me with your obsession. I wonder if folks around you roll their eyes at you because I can only assume that is all you talk about. Some good advice was given to you a few posts back. Take a deep breath, go for a walk, stop and smell the roses, Speed Limit or No Speed Limit, life will go on.

I hope someday you are able to relax about all of this. I really hope you learn to stop trying to ruin the lives of people that do not agree with you. You are no better than those awful people that make those nasty mud slinging campaign ads that we all hate. I guess it is a good way to try to sway the argument when you have no substance. It's just sad though.

Well I am off to finish prepping for the storm. Snowblower is all gassed up. I have to also start cleaning up the mess in the living room, kids toys, wrapping paper, boxes, clothes, etc scattered all about the room.


Happy Holidays and A Happy Healthy Calm New Year to EVERYONE! (Even you)

[melvin bay]

IS this the face of reasonable and prudent? You decide after reading these words brought to you by the head of a "safe" boaters organization
-----------------------------------------------------------------


OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
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See you there.
__________________
Help stop needless boating speed limits in NH. Please visit www.sbonh.org

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



This is not someone who will dictate to me what is proper for our lakes. And our state reps. and senators no doubt agree (especially after reading the above). Some people cannot be trusted to decide for themselves what is reasonable and prudent and this is why the new speed limit will not be overturned (or "enhanced")

[melvin bay]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

they post horrific personal attacks about people that they do not even know!

Quoting someone verbatum is not a horrific personal attack. And sadly the world is full of examples of hypocrites who say one thing in public but are outed by words they thought no one was listening to.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

Quoting someone verbatum is not a horrific personal attack. And sadly the world is full of examples of hypocrites who say one thing in public but are outed by words they thought no one was listening to.

el moose chaser from Melvin Bay,

You have NOT been quoting verbatum. You are cutting out snippets of conversation from another website, stringing them together and posing them as facts.

That's dishonest, deceitful, and misrepesents the facts. That's also called lying.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by melvin bay

IS this the face of reasonable and prudent? You decide after reading these words brought to you by the head of a "safe" boaters organization
-----------------------------------------------------------------


OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
VIP Member
*


Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
Posts: 2,096
1999 28 Active Thunder Savage Susie and I will be there.. Boat WON'T be..... Not talking about it.. Going home and getting absolutely anhilated drunk...

See you there.
__________________
Help stop needless boating speed limits in NH. Please visit www.sbonh.org

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



This is not someone who will dictate to me what is proper for our lakes. And our state reps. and senators no doubt agree (especially after reading the above). Some people cannot be trusted to decide for themselves what is reasonable and prudent and this is why the new speed limit will not be overturned (or "enhanced")

I served in the Navy on Fast Attack submarines (nuke electrician). I have in my days from the past been falling down drunk at New Year's parties, etc. Never have I been behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle while intoxicated. Beyond the Navy I have two college degrees and am a professional with a family. Are you going to call me a cowboy or other insult?

That post is from 5 years ago and appears was internet banter. Notice that operating his boat was not part of the equation but you seemed to not acknowledge that part. I'm sure there are off the record comments you've made about the speed limit that you'd rather not be made public. You're losing it Warren and remember: "Stress kills".

[Bearislandmoose]

Hazelnut,
Your problem is not that someone else is slinging mud, your problem is that someone is finally slinging it back. SOBNH has been outed for the go-fast club that it really is, led by the drinking scofflaw that he really is. And that really stings. You guys tried sooo hard to paint a face of legitimacy on the group...tagging along with the Power Squadron and everything...all for naught...it didn't work. Smelly feet still stink through a clean sock.

While you guys are watching cartoons and getting some amusement, the good people of NH are reading their Sunday papers and getting an education;

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../-1/FOSOPINION

Election not a mandate to repeal speed limits

Sunday, December 26, 2010

A bill has been introduced to repeal our boating speed limit and replace it with the vague notion that boaters need only limit their speeds to what they themselves feel is "reasonable and prudent"... similar to the Coast Guard law used on the open seas.

The bill is sponsored by legislators from southern New Hampshire. Not a single legislator from the Lakes Region, where the speed limit has been so popular, agreed to sign on.

This bill was submitted at the prompting of a group having the audacity to name themselves "Safe Boaters," an apparent reorganization of the go-fast-be-loud crowd formerly calling themselves "Recreational Boaters." What will they call themselves next? When will they admit that they are really just "Fast Loud Selfish Boaters"? I guess that moniker wouldn't fit on the bumper stickers.

The concept of allowing boaters to decide for themselves how fast is "reasonable and prudent" is the only thing that can work on the ocean. Enforcing a set speed limit on the open seas is impossible. The best that can be done there is to have a law that can be applied after the fact, to decide whether an accident was the result of a crime.

But Lake Winnipesaukee is not the ocean. It is a lake. Speed limits are enforceable here, they are working, and people have been obeying them. Allowing "thunder boaters" to decide for themselves how fast is "reasonable and prudent" is not necessary here, we can do much better than that, and we have been doing much better than that for three years. And with all the real issues our legislature has to worry about right now, is this something they should be mucking around with anyway?

Two years of a 45-mph speed limit law after a one year Marine Patrol "informal test" have proven that those very few very aggressive cowboys who caused so much mayhem respect a black and White speed limit. Only twenty-some speeding tickets had to be issued over this period, proving what those that use the lake saw, what most people expected... how much more civil and "recreational" boating on Winnipesaukee was for all once again, and how people obey laws that are clear and unambiguous. Why even think about changing that? Especially with all the serious issues our legislators need to address.

The problem on Winnipesaukee has never been the responsible boater behind the helm of a fast boat... it has been the irresponsible cowboy who always wants to see what he can get away with. Cowboys are just big kids. Kids need to be given curfews and defined limits ... 9 o'clock ... four cookies ... take a bath. They cannot decide from themselves. They are not mature or responsible enough.

Telling a cowboy "Just go as fast as you feel is reasonable and prudent" is like telling a kid to just eat as much candy as he thinks he should. Kids have a different idea of what "reasonable and prudent" means than we do, because we have adult minds, and they have adolescent minds.

Last summer, boating traffic on Winnipesaukee was as balanced and civil as we have seen for over 20 years. All of us got to enjoy our boats and enjoy the lake. Kids camps were sailing and canoeing again. Dealers were selling canoes and kayaks again. Waterside restaurants were struggling to find dock space again. Sailing clubs held regattas and sailing schools again. Rowers in skulls were out there in numbers never seen before. Fathers were taking their sons fishing again. And off-shore boats were still out there, going 45 mph, which any boater knows is pretty darn fast on the water. No longer were the majority of family boaters being ruled by the aggressive boating of such a small minority, so why even think about going back? Especially with the real problems New Hampshire has for our elected officials to fix.

The election of Republicans to Concord in such a landslide was not a mandate to repeal such a functional law that even Republican voters favor so overwhelmingly. We elected Republicans to return fiscal responsibility to New Hampshire, not to return "thunder boating" to Winnipesaukee. Cowboys behind the wheels of thunder boats are not the "Republican" standard. That standard is embodied in the father who wants to get behind the wheel of his runabout to take his family for an ice cream, or take his kids tubing. Now he can do that again. Please don't go back to the mayhem that so many hundreds of people described...the mayhem that the current law virtually eliminated.

Those who want Coast Guard rules should go to the ocean. Besides, there are important matters facing New Hampshire right now, and unleashing the "thunder boaters" to terrorize us once again is not one of them. That is not what we voted for.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

That post is from 5 years ago and appears was internet banter.

No Sir, it was from last year...even I got a copy of that one...here's my copy and I don't believe this one has yet to be edited so you could even look it up yourself. And I hope the kids were with Grandma on June 25, 2009.


06-25-2009, 03:24 PM * #79
OCDACTIVE
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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See you there.
__________________
Help stop needless boating speed limits in NH. Please visit www.sbonh.org

[Rusty]

How about these on the offshore forum:


This forum post was deleted by someone today.




This forum post is still there and it quoted the original post

[lawn psycho]

Rusty, you and others can post that stuff until the cows come home. If ANYONE is intoxicated and operating a boat/car/snowmobile etc then they should be heavy punished if caught.

My issue with your and your ilk's post is that you want to lump anyone who does not agree with you into a bunch of drunken fools. I sure hope none of the SL proponents internet banter ends up on the web as one can assume you've posted less than admirable quotes of your own.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Add me to the list of people that has offered OCD a beer at my camp on Cow Island and he flat out refused stating:

"It's O'Douls for me when I'm behind the wheel of anything, There's plenty of time for a beer after the OCDACTIVE is tied up safely at my dock."

Scott is EXTREMELY sensitive to this matter and has a self enforced ZERO tolerance policy when it comes to alcohol and operation of his vessel. What a sad, sad state of affairs that these people have slumped to this level.

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Well Melvin, all I can say is I invited the President of SBONH over to my camp on Winni for a beer and a meet and greet last year. He informed me at that time that he never drinks anything not even one beer before or while operating his boat but would gladly have an O'douls (non alcoholic) if I had any. That meeting never happened because of the weather that day but I can assure you he was dead serious about no alcohol!

Your post is B.S. and is only here to stir the pot. Sorry, but I'm not biting. I only posted this because I know the facts not the fiction like you!

Dan

Originally Posted by VtSteve

As I recall, he's pretty famous for having O'Douls and any other non-alcoholic beverage. Whichever troll you are Melvin, you really barked up the wrong tree there. You have to be quite a person to put something like that in a paper.

And for instigators worried about who's being an adult, where are you now?

Relentless personal attacks and lies, quite a group you have there. It's enough to make anyone wonder if anything you guys say has any degree of truth to it. Amazingly weak cases when you have to resort to things like that, simply amazing.

You guys are something. Especially given the many angry diatribes from HN and VtS about peoples' dishonesty, I find this last post from Rusty especially interesting. And it sounds like OCD is on a real tear going through all these old posts. Is Tom Eaton helping? Perhaps evidence destruction hasn't been seen on this scale since Watergate.

NHRBA/Erica........gone
SBONH/OCD........going.......going........

[Dhuberty24]

Do you guys have anything better to do? Why don't you leave your real names, or name so people can go spy on you. Seriously you people need to get life.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Dhuberty24

Do you guys have anything better to do? Why don't you leave your real names, or name so people can go spy on you. Seriously you people need to get life.

"Seriously" Dhuberty24?......As far as I'm concerned the president of The Safe Boaters of New Hampshire (SBONH) should be squeaky clean.

I would think that you would be disgusted that all this information has been found about the leader of such an important function.

Drinking and boating do not mix and it really doesn't matter that it happened in 2006 or 2010.

[Pineedles]

The point that is missed by all, is that OCD reveals his real name! elchase, bearmooseisland, sunsetonthedock, all of the made up names that Don allows to be posted, and so many others that launch personal attacks never give their real names. I think they may have some very embarrasing stories. lawn pyscho eluded to some that he has. I will be very curious as to what you all have hidden from us will reveal.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

"Seriously" Dhuberty24?......As far as I'm concerned the president of The Safe Boaters of New Hampshire (SBONH) should be squeaky clean.

I would think that you would be disgusted that all this information has been found about the leader of such an important function.

Drinking and boating do not mix and it really doesn't matter that it happened in 2006 or 2010.

Oh my god! And this is the problem. Wake up! YS don't get mixed up in this you actually seem to have character. At least o thought so. Scott has a zero tolerance boating and or driving under the influence policy. I can tell you that he won't even sniff a beer and drive. FACT! These losers that are trying to infer that he does do not deserve your acknowledgement. Don't get dragged into this. You are above it. It's sad really really sad that these people have zero lives and I know Sam you are better than this.

I for one would trust Scott behind the wheel of any vehicle vessel etc with mine and the lives of my children. I've never seen him consume even one beverage of adult nature ever and drive. He refuses emphatically. What he does when not driving is none of my concern. Who here is all of a sudden high and mighty because a guy likes to drink and NOT drive??? This is a joke of a thread.

[VtSteve]

Perhaps Rusty would like to revisit some of the testimony in the Littlefield case about drinking to excess at the Meredith Town Docks?

Probably not?

There's a nasty little fact not going on here. Scott is 100% alcohol free on boats and in vehicles.

As far as I know, he's never lied about someone sending him a threatening PM, as some here have. As far as I know, he's not lied about people saying things they haven't, again, as some of the same people here have.

If everyone knew the stories behind all of these people they'd laugh hysterically. One person that's really changed is the one that wanted everything to be real cute and friendly. Now he joins in with liars. Go figure. But I always knew he didn't have the cojones to stick to his own mind anyway.

Have fun being led by the ring in your nose guys.

[NoBozo]

In my estimation as an observer: There are TWO individuals..Very Revered Members..who are the owners of multiple screen names that are driving this kind of thread just for SPORT. Just Sayin. NB

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

In my estimation as an observer: There are TWO individuals..Very Revered Members..who are the owners of multiple screen names that are driving this kind of thread just for SPORT. Just Sayin. NB

No....there is just one individual. His name is Sunset on the Rusty Yosemite Turtle who Chases over the many Acres off Bear Island and Skips across Melvin Bay. There, isn't it much easier on the psyche thinking there is just one person in opposition to the speeed limit?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

No....there is just one individual. His name is Sunset on the Rusty Yosemite Turtle who Chases over the many Acres off Bear Island and Skips across Melvin Bay. There, isn't it much easier on the psyche thinking there is just one person in opposition to the speeed limit?

Sunset. Don't make light of this. You'll end up looking silly. There really and truly is one person that keeps making new screen names. Ask the webmaster. It's true. It's sad. But it is true. I mean it doesn't mean anything but don't get into this one because you might regret it.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Bearislandmoose

Hazelnut,
Your problem is not that someone else is slinging mud, your problem is that someone is finally slinging it back. SOBNH has been outed for the go-fast club that it really is, led by the drinking scofflaw that he really is. And that really stings. You guys tried sooo hard to paint a face of legitimacy on the group...tagging along with the Power Squadron and everything...all for naught...it didn't work. Smelly feet still stink through a clean sock.

While you guys are watching cartoons and getting some amusement, the good people of NH are reading their Sunday papers and getting an education;

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../-1/FOSOPINION

Election not a mandate to repeal speed limits

Sunday, December 26, 2010

A bill has been introduced to repeal our boating speed limit and replace it with the vague notion that boaters need only limit their speeds to what they themselves feel is "reasonable and prudent"... similar to the Coast Guard law used on the open seas.

The bill is sponsored by legislators from southern New Hampshire. Not a single legislator from the Lakes Region, where the speed limit has been so popular, agreed to sign on.

This bill was submitted at the prompting of a group having the audacity to name themselves "Safe Boaters," an apparent reorganization of the go-fast-be-loud crowd formerly calling themselves "Recreational Boaters." What will they call themselves next? When will they admit that they are really just "Fast Loud Selfish Boaters"? I guess that moniker wouldn't fit on the bumper stickers.

The concept of allowing boaters to decide for themselves how fast is "reasonable and prudent" is the only thing that can work on the ocean. Enforcing a set speed limit on the open seas is impossible. The best that can be done there is to have a law that can be applied after the fact, to decide whether an accident was the result of a crime.

But Lake Winnipesaukee is not the ocean. It is a lake. Speed limits are enforceable here, they are working, and people have been obeying them. Allowing "thunder boaters" to decide for themselves how fast is "reasonable and prudent" is not necessary here, we can do much better than that, and we have been doing much better than that for three years. And with all the real issues our legislature has to worry about right now, is this something they should be mucking around with anyway?

Two years of a 45-mph speed limit law after a one year Marine Patrol "informal test" have proven that those very few very aggressive cowboys who caused so much mayhem respect a black and White speed limit. Only twenty-some speeding tickets had to be issued over this period, proving what those that use the lake saw, what most people expected... how much more civil and "recreational" boating on Winnipesaukee was for all once again, and how people obey laws that are clear and unambiguous. Why even think about changing that? Especially with all the serious issues our legislators need to address.

The problem on Winnipesaukee has never been the responsible boater behind the helm of a fast boat... it has been the irresponsible cowboy who always wants to see what he can get away with. Cowboys are just big kids. Kids need to be given curfews and defined limits ... 9 o'clock ... four cookies ... take a bath. They cannot decide from themselves. They are not mature or responsible enough.

Telling a cowboy "Just go as fast as you feel is reasonable and prudent" is like telling a kid to just eat as much candy as he thinks he should. Kids have a different idea of what "reasonable and prudent" means than we do, because we have adult minds, and they have adolescent minds.

Last summer, boating traffic on Winnipesaukee was as balanced and civil as we have seen for over 20 years. All of us got to enjoy our boats and enjoy the lake. Kids camps were sailing and canoeing again. Dealers were selling canoes and kayaks again. Waterside restaurants were struggling to find dock space again. Sailing clubs held regattas and sailing schools again. Rowers in skulls were out there in numbers never seen before. Fathers were taking their sons fishing again. And off-shore boats were still out there, going 45 mph, which any boater knows is pretty darn fast on the water. No longer were the majority of family boaters being ruled by the aggressive boating of such a small minority, so why even think about going back? Especially with the real problems New Hampshire has for our elected officials to fix.

The election of Republicans to Concord in such a landslide was not a mandate to repeal such a functional law that even Republican voters favor so overwhelmingly. We elected Republicans to return fiscal responsibility to New Hampshire, not to return "thunder boating" to Winnipesaukee. Cowboys behind the wheels of thunder boats are not the "Republican" standard. That standard is embodied in the father who wants to get behind the wheel of his runabout to take his family for an ice cream, or take his kids tubing. Now he can do that again. Please don't go back to the mayhem that so many hundreds of people described...the mayhem that the current law virtually eliminated.

Those who want Coast Guard rules should go to the ocean. Besides, there are important matters facing New Hampshire right now, and unleashing the "thunder boaters" to terrorize us once again is not one of them. That is not what we voted for.

It's my understanding that virtually none of our lake's region legislators intend to sign on either if the bill gets out of committee. This would be a powerful message to the others in our legislature.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

It's my understanding that virtually none of our lake's region legislators intend to sign on either if the bill gets out of committee. This would be a powerful message to the others in our legislature.

The president of the SBONH has issed a statement stating that what he posted "are OBVIOUS exaggerations for satirical and comical humor".

There...now we can forget all those things he said about booze crusies and knowing how to fool the NH Marine Patrol....we all stooped real low to post his Forum exaggerations. Shame on us.


Here is what he said:

" Concerning the recent postings on other sites I have felt a response was not necessary due to how disgusting and misleading these personal attacks are. Anyone can see through this veil of misdirection, however being President of the organization I want to set the record straight.

1. I do not, have not, nor do I support, in anyway BWI. I personally have a zero tolerance policy that I think all responsible boaters should adhere to. In no way do I condone any form of Boating under the influence. A designated driver should always be available and planned for accordingly.

2. Quotes that are being posted on other media sources about me are being taken from a personal dialogue between friends. These are OBVIOUS exaggerations for satirical and comical humor. To use them in and of themselves is simply unfounded and does not give a complete story. Context and personal relationships concerning inside jokes between friends are not being considered nor do outside readers have an understanding of these as being sarcastic.

It is really unfortunate that people have such a weak standing to form their own argument concerning actual issues at hand that they must stoop to making personal attacks in this nature. It only continues to prove the feeble case they have to have to bring the debate to such a low point of squabbling. Legislators have already pointed out how such attacks will be viewed unsympathetically if brought to their attention.

Frankly this is pathetic and not deserving any further concern.

SBONH and I will continue to work with organizations, legislators and anyone else who would like to help promote safety and our agenda."

[melvin bay]

As far as the part about legislators being unsympathetic, I think this is a major smoke screen on Sbonh's part. Some of these legislators like Hikel, Packard, Forsythe, and Boutin may well have been hoodwinked here. I suspect they are decent people who did not know the full extent of the deceit which lies below the surface at SBONH. People have fought hard to return a family ideal to the lake. The message from some of these offshoreonly and other posts is a pattern of reckless, irresponsible, and immature behaviior on the part of the president of the organization. These are not the words one would wish to hear from a young man with kid(s). The pattern can be seen with the quotes about Braun Bay and the Naswa and booze cruises...right up until recent quotes about getting anhiilated drunk. The Hooters comment beats them all . The parallels with Erica and the NHRBA are frightening.
I too have spoken with some of our legislators. One has said that yes theyare ticked off at this bill just a few months after the passage of the SL and that indeed these bills often emerge somewhat opposite to what was intended similar to what I read from another poster. It would be ironic if the sl were more not less restrictive and involved all nH lakes. I would urge all who feel similarly to speak with your reps, let them know your feeling, and be willing to back up your concerns with some of these very revealing posts, especially the ones about Braun Bay and the Naswa. These posts do not paint a picture of people who are reasonable and prudent.

Here are 2 more quotes from offshoreonly. I find it interesting that initially some of the posts on the Jammin on the James thread were marked edited as of a few days ago....now the whole thread I understand is missing.
These 2 aren't quite as blatant as some of the others("waking up in the dog's bed") but show the disturbing pattern and do not seem in line with the family values mentioned in the Fosters letter.



01-16-2010, 11:52 AM #123
OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
VIP Member



Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
Posts: 2,096
1999 28 Active Thunder Savage 2 weeks!!! I'm starting now... Gotta get the liver primed!
__________________
Help stop needless boating speed limits in NH. Please visit www.sbonh.org

01-17-2010, 09:28 AM #136
OCDACTIVE
A.T. Cult Member #4
VIP Member



Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goffstown, NH
Posts: 2,096
1999 28 Active Thunder Savage I am going to go out on a limb here and say in 2 weeks from today I will have a raging hangover! LOL

__________________
Help stop needless boating speed limits in NH. Please visit www.sbonh.org

I think this bill and organization are toast

[lawn psycho]

Melvin, do you really think posting this here is somehow getting the message out to the masses?

But in all honestly, you have got to take a step back and look at this from someone not as jaded with your viewpoint.

I'll give you an example. I have lawn care, fertilizing, and herbicides as a very serious hobby. There is a forum where we kid around all the time about "killing the environment, making our neighbors nervous, putting the guy who dare walk on the perfectly cut lawn into the wood chipper and using him for organic matter, etc." If you read that forum, you may not even get the inside jokes we have. Someone like you would come along and "oh the horrors". Anyone in real life would know that's not how things really are.

So you can continue to post these all day. I'm sure OCD probably wishes he never posted them as it's easy to paint someone in a bad light. I guarantee there is something you've done or said something that could be used to paint your character, even if not true.

However, there are people like me who saw legislators use dirty politics to take a study period, squash it rather than wait for the lack of data to support their cause, and then push it through. That is why I oppose the SL as I detest slimy politics. Again, my boat can barely do 45 MPH but I want the SL eliminated just to prove a point. The lake won't change with or without the speed limits. And we know that hurts you to know that. You've become obsessed with this whole topic. You should seriously give it a rest or you are going to have a stroke or heart attack. The anger and anxiety you have about the SL is over the top.

Also, the repeated mention of the cartoon shows you how much it got under your skin but there was a lot of truth in the little video.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

The president of the SBONH has issed a statement stating that what he posted "are OBVIOUS exaggerations for satirical and comical humor".

There...now we can forget all those things he said about booze crusies and knowing how to fool the NH Marine Patrol....we all stooped real low to post his Forum exaggerations. Shame on us.


Here is what he said:

" Concerning the recent postings on other sites I have felt a response was not necessary due to how disgusting and misleading these personal attacks are. Anyone can see through this veil of misdirection, however being President of the organization I want to set the record straight.

1. I do not, have not, nor do I support, in anyway BWI. I personally have a zero tolerance policy that I think all responsible boaters should adhere to. In no way do I condone any form of Boating under the influence. A designated driver should always be available and planned for accordingly.

2. Quotes that are being posted on other media sources about me are being taken from a personal dialogue between friends. These are OBVIOUS exaggerations for satirical and comical humor. To use them in and of themselves is simply unfounded and does not give a complete story. Context and personal relationships concerning inside jokes between friends are not being considered nor do outside readers have an understanding of these as being sarcastic.

It is really unfortunate that people have such a weak standing to form their own argument concerning actual issues at hand that they must stoop to making personal attacks in this nature. It only continues to prove the feeble case they have to have to bring the debate to such a low point of squabbling. Legislators have already pointed out how such attacks will be viewed unsympathetically if brought to their attention.

Frankly this is pathetic and not deserving any further concern.

SBONH and I will continue to work with organizations, legislators and anyone else who would like to help promote safety and our agenda."

Let's use your logic YS, along with that of Melvin the pot stirrer. So if it's never OK to be on a boat or 'booze cruise' and therefore be a cowboy, white-trash drunk, etc. then anyone who set foot on the MS Mount Washington and ingested alcohol fits your definition. Do you think anyone consumes more than a couple drinks before they walked off the gang plank (and had a designated driver). Maybe next you guys will be asking the M/S Mount Washington to ban booze from being served on board.

[Rusty]

On the Lakeshoreonly forum "Mike61965" told "wananewboat" that he got a "RUSH" when two boats on Lake Winni came within 25 ft from him. He said they must have been going "a hundred".
Then "wananewboat" says: "And they wonder why they are putting a speed limit on the lake."

The orignal post from "Mike61965" is missing. There has been a lot of editing and removal of posts that deal with speed and drinking. It's hard to get the whole conversation because of this.

Here it is:

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Rusty

On the Lakeshoreonly forum "Mike61965" told "wananewboat" that he got a "RUSH" when two boats on Lake Winni came within 25 ft from him. He said they must have been going "a hundred".
Then "wananewboat" says: "And they wonder why they are putting a speed limit on the lake."

The orignal post from "Mike61965" is missing. There has been a lot of editing and removal of posts that deal with speed and drinking. It's hard to get the whole conversation because of this.

Here it is:

Reminds me of the time when ElChase almost got run over on the lake while fishing with his son. Of course, they only got a good laugh out of it because it was not a thunder boat (cue APS for a lesson on kinetic energy).

Now I know why Google is posting record profit #s.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Reminds me of the time when ElChase almost got run over on the lake while fishing with his son. Of course, they only got a good laugh out of it because it was not a thunder boat (cue APS for a lesson on kinetic energy).

Now I know why Google is posting record profit #s.

So in your view a Thunder Boat (your words) going 100 MPH within 25 feet of another boater is funny.

I really hope that all the NH State Legislators read this forum so they can see what a member of the SBONH thinks is funny.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Rusty

So in your view a Thunder Boat (your words) going 100 MPH within 25 feet of another boater is funny.

I really hope that all the NH State Legislators read this forum so they can see what a member of the SBONH thinks is funny.

Rusty, Can you tell me where I said anything about a performance boat doing anything?? Anywhere?? Please find it and post it. Please find and post anything you can find about me that does not support safety regarding anything I partake in. Or laughing about it?

I merely pointed out the absurdity of the post. If you need, you can search back into past posts from your hero, ElChase, regarding the story he told on this forum about nearly being run over and laughing about it.

Skip, If you have an issue with me please let me know what it is. This thank you was directed at me. Can you find where I laughed at anything to do with these boats that were referenced above? If you have something to say, then say it, instead of dropping a little thank you in here and there.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Rusty, Can you tell me where I said anything about a performance boat doing anything?? Anywhere?? Please find it and post it. Please find and post anything you can find about me that does not support safety regarding anything I partake in. Or laughing about it?

I merely pointed out the absurdity of the post. If you need, you can search back into past posts from your hero, ElChase, regarding the story he told on this forum about nearly being run over and laughing about it.

Skip, If you have an issue with me please let me know what it is. This thank you was directed at me. Can you find where I laughed at anything to do with these boats that were referenced above? If you have something to say, then say it, instead of dropping a little thank you in here and there.

My hero "Elchase"??? Who is "Elchase"?

What I post has nothing to do with any other forum members comments or thoughts.

You said that the 100 MPH Boat comment reminded you of a post by forum member “Elchase” who thought something was funny. Therefore I took it that you think my post was just as funny as his.

Why do you and other SBONH members make a joke out of everything that is posted about someone speeding or drinking alcohol on Lake Winni? Is it the wrong data that you want to here?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Rusty

My hero "Elchase"??? Who is "Elchase"?

What I post has nothing to do with any other forum members comments or thoughts.

You said that the 100 MPH Boat comment reminded you of a post by forum member “Elchase” who thought something was funny. Therefore I took it that you think my post was just as funny as his.

Why do you and other SBONH members make a joke out of everything that is posted about someone speeding or drinking alcohol on Lake Winni? Is it the wrong data that you want to here?

You took my comment and tried to twist it but failed miserably. That was the biggest leap to a conclusion I have seen in a while.

How do you know what I think is or is not funny? Have you been reading past posts? If so, you are fully aware of who ElChase/BearIslandMoose is and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

For the record, I have been consistent in my messages on this forum and others about what I believe. I have never joked about speeding or drinking (while boating) on the lake.

I suggest you spend a few hours reading every post I have ever made on this forum (or any other one you may try to find) and find out how I truly feel about this lake. Read and find out how I feel about BWI, Erica Blizzard, speed or any other topic and then come back and report in.

Have a good day, while you are doing that I will be out snowmobiling!

What was discouraging was you got a guy that I had respect for to thank you for your obtuse attempt to smear me. Skip, you are welcome!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

You took my comment and tried to twist it but failed miserably. That was the biggest leap to a conclusion I have seen in a while.

How do you know what I think is or is not funny? Have you been reading past posts? If so, you are fully aware of who ElChase/BearIslandMoose is and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

For the record, I have been consistent in my messages on this forum and others about what I believe. I have never joked about speeding or drinking (while boating) on the lake.

I suggest you spend a few hours reading every post I have ever made on this forum (or any other one you may try to find) and find out how I truly feel about this lake. Read and find out how I feel about BWI, Erica Blizzard, speed or any other topic and then come back and report in.

Have a good day, while you are doing that I will be out snowmobiling!

What was discouraging was you got a guy that I had respect for to thank you for your obtuse attempt to smear me. Skip, you are welcome!

I hope that Skip thanked me for agreeing with my post rather than to get you upset. It really doesn’t matter because I don’t post something just to get a Thank You.

Please don’t think that I am trying to smear you, I just don’t understand why you compared my post with another forum members post that was laughable.

I guess I’ll never really know what you meant by your original post.

Anyway have a good day snowmobiling!

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

What was discouraging was you got a guy that I had respect for to thank you for your obtuse attempt to smear me. Skip, you are welcome!

For someone, i.e. Skip who was so disgusted when this whole sub forum was created is acting like a 3 year old like the other trolls and peaking around the corner to through in "Thank Yous" here and there to "stir the pot". Skip, I thought you didn't follow this sub forum? If you have something to say, why don't you say it since you feel so strongly on the subject. Others here at least who post "Thank Yous" post something to say after the fact. Talk about a child. I really did at one point value what you had to say, now, not so much.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

My hero "Elchase"??? Who is "Elchase"?

What I post has nothing to do with any other forum members comments or thoughts.

You said that the 100 MPH Boat comment reminded you of a post by forum member “Elchase” who thought something was funny. Therefore I took it that you think my post was just as funny as his.

Why do you and other SBONH members make a joke out of everything that is posted about someone speeding or drinking alcohol on Lake Winni? Is it the wrong data that you want to here?

The NHMP stats would indicate that speeding and alcohol are not the primary violations on NH waters. But of course that doesn't matter to you.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

My hero "Elchase"??? Who is "Elchase"?

I think that Dissociative Identity Disorder is a sad, tragic disease.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I hope that Skip thanked me for agreeing with my post rather than to get you upset. It really doesn’t matter because I don’t post something just to get a Thank You.

Please don’t think that I am trying to smear you, I just don’t understand why you compared my post with another forum members post that was laughable.

I guess I’ll never really know what you meant by your original post.

Anyway have a good day snowmobiling!

You all have fun at you next gathering. Don;t forget to tear up the liquor receipts Rusty, never can be too careful.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

You all have fun at you next gathering. Don;t forget to tear up the liquor receipts Rusty, never can be too careful.

"Rusty"???? Who is "Rusty"?

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Yankee

I think that Dissociative Identity Disorder is a sad, tragic disease.

I appreciate the "thanks for the useful post" Rusty. Apparently your arrogance does not allow you to realize that your sarcasm is construed as an admission that you and Elchase are one and the same. Which of course means that you are also melvin bay, bearislandmoose et al...

In the final analysis it allows me to once again call you out as a liar.

That is twice in one thread that I have shown you to be a liar. The sad part is it that was not at all difficult. And yes I am keeping a tally. Please keep it up, your are doing wonders to show all concerned the kind and type of individual that you are, and what your position has degenerated into.

Carry on.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Yankee

I appreciate the "thanks for the useful post" Rusty. Apparently your arrogance does not allow you to realize that your sarcasm is construed as an admission that you and Elchase are one and the same. Which of course means that you are also melvin bay, bearislandmoose et al...

In the final analysis it allows me to once again call you out as a liar.

That is twice in one thread that I have shown you to be a liar. The sad part is it that was not at all difficult. And yes I am keeping a tally. Please keep it up, your are doing wonders to show all concerned the kind and type of individual that you are, and what your position has degenerated into.

Carry on.

I think you better be careful who you call a "liar"..and I mean it! I am not Elchase...period!

But if you think I am (which you do) why did you say this:

"Please ignore this EL" and "do not feed the troll".


What has changed your mind young fella?

Is it hard to not practice what you preach?

Below is what you said:

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Rusty

"Rusty"???? Who is "Rusty"?

Apparently, your current screen name?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Apparently, your current screen name?

I said that as a joke because Yankee stated that I have "Dissociative Identity Disorder". I tried to be funny and I guess it failed.

I am Rusty and only Rusty.

I read some of Elchase's comments and I really don't want to be him.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I said that as a joke because Yankee stated that I have "Dissociative Identity Disorder". I tried to be funny and I guess it failed.

I am Rusty and only Rusty.

I read some of Elchase's comments and I really don't want to be him.

I don't think he does either, neither does BearIslandMoose, or any other name he uses. But El's not even his real name. (Neither is Ed).

Now That's a real Identity Disorder. But it's his anyway.

So Rusty, you in the restaurant biz?

[BroadHopper]

To clear things up. The Great Rusty Maclear, the guy who is turning Meredith into a company town, joined WINFABS to take the heat off his losing evidence in a felony case. Looks like it did as everyone seems to forget his bad intentions. I also caught his landscaper using fertilizer loaded with phosphate on his lakefront property.

And the great Sandy, another WINFABS founder loves to flaunt her Prius. Whose carbon footprint is a heck of a lot bigger than my old '69 Power Wagon. She also likes the fact that her cobalt batteries support mass genocide in Africa. The precious metal cobalt is expensive for that reason.

I don't consider WINFABS to be squeaky clean.

[VtSteve]

There are WINNFAB people here that are anonymous, some with more than one name, some several. They love secrecy. There were two now infamous accidents on Winni, one of which happened after the skipper that caused it became totally sloshed when drinking at a certain establishment. The Court documents contained testimony as to his inebriation, his wild actions, and his going down to get in his boat. He was so sloshed, he first forgot to untie the boat before leaving

Shortly after that, people got together to try an get a speed limit passed. One person that was very helpful and supportive of these actions, was the owner of the restaurant where the skipper that caused the accident drank himself silly. Mysteriously, no receipts were available for the jury to see just how much and how often. The testimony was clearly evident. IMO, I think the same accident would have occurred if that area had been a NWZ. I also think that the same accident, which in testimony given was at 28 mph, still would have happened today.

IMNSHO, that accident would NOT have occurred if the restaurant in question had not so blatantly over-served the inebriated skipper. Perhaps proper training was given to employees AFTER this took place, and BEFORE the owner became so preoccupied with a personal vendetta? Who knows, nobody discusses this.

There are people that have

What I do know is what almost every law enforcement officer on the planet knows.

1) Most accidents occur at night, and most are alcohol-related.

(nice of the WINNFAB folks to start taking an interest in BUI lately)

2) The common cause of daytime accidents is inattention, too fast for conditions, too close to other boaters. Also, outright arrogance, selfish behavior and all that.

3) The VAST majority of all accidents on the lake have been at speeds lower than the current speed limits.

4) Give the MP a mission to combat BUI, and reckless behavior that endangers people, and the situation will only improve.

Warning: No facts have been killed, nor is this a cowardly drive-by random attack on anyone's character. If any of this is offensive to anyone, feel free to thank me below. Feel free to add some facts that I might have omitted. If you think #1 through #4 are not true, feel free to pass them by any Law Enforcement Officer or agency for review.

There are those that continue to think safe waterways can happen with public support, and with OPEN, honest public discussions. Safety can happen if everyone is upfront, and involved. It can happen only if the MP is given both the mission and the resources to do just that. Sadly, those promoting speed limits never worked with the MP, and had an antagonistic relationship with them. Sadly, safety is not in their agenda.

[VtSteve]

Speed Enforcement Statistics for Lake Winnipesaukee


2009 2010
Summons Warnings Summons Warnings
NWZ Violations
9 41 17 72


Speed Under Bridge
0 0 3 1


Speed Limit Violations
1 26 8 12


It certainly looks like the MP was busy at NWZ's.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"IMNSHO, that accident would NOT have occurred if the restaurant in question had not so blatantly over-served the inebriated skipper..."

The inebriated skipper had enough wits about him to run from the scene of the fatality, and he wasn't alone. So how can one tell that the skipper was "blatantly over-served"?

Yup...The Solution is to blame the waitress!

Originally Posted by VtSteve

What I do know is what almost every law enforcement officer on the planet knows.

1) Most accidents occur at night, and most are alcohol-related...Feel free to add some facts that I might have omitted.

Look Again:

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ght%2C+boating

BoatTEST magazine:

After Dark Speed Limit

"The fact is, there ought to be a speed limit for operating boats at night on inland and coastal waters. As regular readers of BoatTEST know, we bridle at government imposed regulation, but when we read about the tragedies that occur at night because someone was thoughtlessly going 50 mph instead of 10 mph, we reconsider.

We urge you simply to set your own speed limit when operating your boat at night. 8 to 10 mph seems about right to us. That’s right; off plane and mushing along if you are in a hurry, and at fast idle if you are not. This prudence only has to pay off once in your lifetime to make it well worth it.

—http://www.boattest.com/resources/vi...spx?NewsID=974

BoatTEST on ejected passengers:

Death By Jumping

"...was last seen about 6:15 PM Sunday May 25th when he jumped from a boat traveling 35-40 mph...The boat was traveling 35-40 mph when Gruber jumped into the lake. Witnesses said Gruber went under the water and never resurfaced. The water is about 60 ft. deep where the incident occurred...People usually think of water as “soft.” But when an object – a boat’s hull or a person’s body – is hurtling at it at 40 mph, is more like concrete."

—http://www.boattest.com/resources/vi...spx?NewsID=974

So, BoatTEST magazine says, 40-MPH is a very fast speed on water.

You may quote me today, as being the very first member at this forum to say the following:

"Forty-MPH is a very fast speed on water."

[Dhuberty24]

You may quote me today, as being the very first member at this forum to say the following:

"Forty-MPH is a very fast speed on water."

[/QUOTE]

It may be fast in a canoe.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

"Forty-MPH is a very fast speed on water."

1) They did not say 40MPH was very fast on the water. They said 40MPH water is not soft.
2) He jumped out of a boat moving between 35 and 40 MPH, at night, had been drinking, and with no PFD. (You parsed out most of that).

Here is the full quote:

Peter Gruber – no relation to the movie producer – was last seen about 6:15 PM Sunday May 25th when he jumped from a boat traveling 35-40 mph on Norris Lake in TN. “He had been talking through the day what it would be like to jump from a moving boat,” Allen Ricks, wildlife resources spokesman, said. The boat was traveling 35-40 mph when Gruber jumped into the 30,000-acre lake. Witnesses said Gruber went under the water and never resurfaced. The water is about 60 ft. deep where the incident occurred. He had been drinking, and he did not have a life preserver. There were 9 people on the 25-ft. Powerquest boat when the incident occurred.

People usually think of water as “soft.” But when an object – a boat’s hull or a person’s body – is hurtling at it at 40 mph, is more like concrete. Mr. Gruber might well have died from internal injuries inflicted by the water on his internal organs immediately upon impact with the water. In such a situation, an inflatable life vest might not have helped him anyway. Virtually all of the dozen or so boaters who died over the long weekend failed to wear a life vest. In fact, not one person died who WAS wearing a PFD.
The real issue noted was the lack of a PFD and the fact that he jumped out of a perfectly good boat at speed!

Regarding the night time SL... this has been my point all along. Some nights 30 MPH is fine, some nights 10 MPH is too fast. It depends on the conditions. Everyone who has been fortunate enough to spend time on Winnipesaukee has seen the difference between a full moon-lit night and a fog shrouded night.

I know you will parse this to pieces, but really APS. Try some reading comprehension classes.