Bill Filed to Modify and Enhance Speed Limits in NH

[Bear Islander]

Doublespeak (sometimes called doubletalk) : language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. (Wikipedia)

Calling legislation that would repeal the 45/30 speed limit a "SAFETY ENHANCEMENT BILL" is doublespeak.

I dislike it when people try and hide their intentions behind politically correct or misleading language. The meat of the current speed limit is in the 45/30 numbers, the rest is fluff. Any legislation that eliminates specific speed limit numbers is a REPEAL. Pure and simple!

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Doublespeak (sometimes called doubletalk) : language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. (Wikipedia)

Calling legislation that would repeal the 45/30 speed limit a "SAFETY ENHANCEMENT BILL" is doublespeak.

I dislike it when people try and hide their intentions behind politically correct or misleading language. The meat of the current speed limit is in the 45/30 numbers, the rest is fluff. Any legislation that eliminates specific speed limit numbers is a REPEAL. Pure and simple!

Yes, analogous to supporting a SL bill in a misguided attempt to eliminate a certain type of boat because of its involvement in a personal tragedy. A tragedy whose sequence of events had nothing to do with the boats capabilities, but was a direct result of an impaired captain behind the wheel.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Yankee

Yes, analogous to supporting a SL bill in a misguided attempt to eliminate a certain type of boat because of its involvement in a personal tragedy. A tragedy whose sequence of events had nothing to do with the boats capabilities, but was a direct result of an impaired captain behind the wheel.

I have said this before, but I guess I have to say it again. Mr. Hartman was a Bear Island neighbor but not a friend. I knew him to say hello to. I have many reasons to support the SL the primary one being children's camps.

This past summer OCDACTIVE stopped by my place on Bear for a beer. We had a nice talk and then he took my son and I for a ride on his performance boat. He even let me take the controls for a short time. It was a lot of fun. If there was a way to exempt him and other responsible performance boaters from the speed limit I would be in favor of it. There isn't.

You may find it easier to believe that speed limit supporters hate performance boats. The truth is more complex.

[BroadHopper]

I seen a number of boaters this summer that is speeding around thinking it is OK as they are under 45 mph. Yet under the circumstances it is not reasonable and prudent! I and others witness this through the 6 pack, graveyard, the narrows at center harbor and even at the Weirs Channel! This has to stop! Some people just don't get it! I even argue with a guy at the Town Docks that just because the speed limit is 45 mph, it does not mean he can speed around the lake as long as he is under 45!

Marine Patrol present this summer is way down. meanwhile the boneheads are having a blast. Because of this I don't feel any safer on the lake with the new law. We need a law with teeth! This modification is a step in the right direction.

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by broadhopper

i seen a number of boaters this summer that is speeding around thinking it is ok as they are under 45 mph. Yet under the circumstances it is not reasonable and prudent! I and others witness this through the 6 pack, graveyard, the narrows at center harbor and even at the weirs channel! This has to stop! Some people just don't get it! I even argue with a guy at the town docks that just because the speed limit is 45 mph, it does not mean he can speed around the lake as long as he is under 45!

Marine patrol present this summer is way down. Meanwhile the boneheads are having a blast. Because of this i don't feel any safer on the lake with the new law. We need a law with teeth! This modification is a step in the right direction.

get a life ; broadhopper . You go out of yourway argue with someone at a dock because he was in law .

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

get a life ; broadhopper . You go out of yourway argue with someone at a dock because he was in law .

This guy thinks NWZs and 150 ft rule is irrelevant. He thinks the 45/15 SL law will protect him. Who wants to live now!

[fatlazyless]

howdi....hey check out today's www.cmonitor.com and its' front page "Brakes on boat speed limits" top story along with a boat & water photo....the photo looks like it was taken from an airplane or maybe from the Harry Hood "drink milk" blimp??? Ok, enough with that and on to some highly relevant and intelligent speed limits comments....I'm think'n good today but ain't got nuth'n to say now?

Ok, but here's someone with an intelligent e-mail comment from the bottom of this Concord Monitor front page article.
.........

Marine Speed by hoytbrook 12/02/10 6:38am

As a cottage owner on a small lake and former board member of our protective association, I have personally witnessed some terrifying incidents related to speed. Nearby Sunapee Lake has also had a lot of dangerous boat activity. Lack of recorded arrests and fines is probably due to a lack of manpower on a small staff of marine police. If the new Republican majority thinks that taking away the speed limits in support of a hazy definition of safe operation, they ought to spend a weekend day/night on one of our larger lakes. I wonder if these people have grandchildren who have been endangered by reckless boaters!!!

[VtSteve]

Over the past 10 years, Barrett said, there have been three boating deaths attributed to speed. One of those is the 2008 death of Stephanie Beaudoin of Meredith, who died when a boat piloted by her best friend, Erica Blizzard, crashed into Diamond Island on Lake Winnipesaukee in the dark, early morning hours. State authorities estimate Blizzard was going at least 33 mph.

This year, Barrett said, the Marine Patrol issued eight tickets for speeding on the lake, resulting in court-issued fines in the vicinity of $100.

"That's testimony to the fact that there aren't a lot of people that go that fast," Barrett said.

Barrett said speed on the lake wasn't a problem before the limits were passed, and the small number of violators suggests to him that it is still a minor concern.

Well we knew that. Interestingly enough, I believe all three accidents (at least 2), were too fast for conditions. I also take exception to people that seem to think the CG rule is vague or hard to interpret.

Any boater that can't understand CG Rule 6, should not be on the water. Period.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok, but here's someone with an intelligent e-mail comment from the bottom of this Concord Monitor front page article.

That's funny that you find a comment intelligent. Here is something from the actual article that I found "intelligent":

Originally Posted by David Barrett, who oversees the state Marine Patrol as head of the Division of Safety Services

"That's testimony to the fact that there aren't a lot of people that go that fast"

and

Barrett said speed on the lake wasn't a problem before the limits were passed

[sunset on the dock]

There seems to be a lot of press today about the SL like the following in the LDS. I feel beneath the humorous exterior of this letter is a clever and apt analogy as to why the new SL legislation may have trouble gaining much traction in Concord....that and the fact that our reps and senators, as I understand it, have become weary so many years of arguing this legislation. The letter underscores the "doublespeak" that has been alluded to in this forum. JMO

Letters
Is the 'safe' boating crowd really trying to repeal DWI law?
Dec 02, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Any truth to the rumor that the "safe" boating gang is filing another "safety enhancement" bill, this one to repeal our Boating-While-Intoxicated law, eliminating defined blood alcohol limits in favor of allowing boaters to "use their own judgment and drink till they don't think they are sober enough to helm a boat, according to prevailing conditions"?

Ed Chase

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

There seems to be a lot of press today about the SL like the following in the LDS. I feel beneath the humorous exterior of this letter is a clever and apt analogy as to why the new SL legislation may have trouble gaining much traction in Concord....that and the fact that our reps and senators, as I understand it, have become weary so many years of arguing this legislation. The letter underscores the "doublespeak" that has been alluded to in this forum. JMO

Letters
Is the 'safe' boating crowd really trying to repeal DWI law?
Dec 02, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Any truth to the rumor that the "safe" boating gang is filing another "safety enhancement" bill, this one to repeal our Boating-While-Intoxicated law, eliminating defined blood alcohol limits in favor of allowing boaters to "use their own judgment and drink till they don't think they are sober enough to helm a boat, according to prevailing conditions"?

Ed Chase

BIM recently wrote another in a series of derogatory posts, the last one deriding some of us for saying bad things about him. The above is yet more proof why some of us continue to do so. The entire boating community seems to be doublespeak to you guys. Yet whenever you post, it's not true.

One would think that someone who had claimed to be not only a sailor, but also spent 1,000 or 2,000 hours a season on the water would know something about CG Rule 6.

Instead, he chooses to accuse others of being wild drunks. Nice guy your friend "Ed". I still wonder why the papers allow him to use so many different names

Try to clean up the act boys.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Any truth to the rumor that the "safe" boating gang is filing another "safety enhancement" bill, this one to repeal our Boating-While-Intoxicated law, eliminating defined blood alcohol limits in favor of allowing boaters to "use their own judgment and drink till they don't think they are sober enough to helm a boat, according to prevailing conditions"?

Ed Chase

A "rumor" apparently created by Ed Chase himself? This is similar bad behavior that TB was caught engaging in. Notice how he never gave a proper response to the insane accusations he posted.

Now who was it that posted a huge thread containing a list of what he said were mean things? That's correct, the very same person that posts lies like the above.

Hint: That's why some of us say things like that about you

These aren't just little white lies meant to be funny, nope, their Giant Big Whoppers of lies that are made up by people fearing that they will be uncovered again. Thankfully, the Big Whopper Lies are being stated in public.

[winni83]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Elchase, Bearislandmoose, Ed Chase and Warren Clark are all one and the same person and that in post number 235 in the Barber’s Pole thread, one Bearislandmoose stated unequivocally that:

“In fact, I have apparently been the only one on this forum using his real name until now.”

It seems that in addition to being factually challenged, this person is also identity challenged.

[jarhead0341]

Originally Posted by winni83

Is there any truth to the rumor that Elchase, Bearislandmoose, Ed Chase and Warren Clark are all one and the same person and that in post number 235 in the Barber’s Pole thread, one Bearislandmoose stated unequivocally that:

“In fact, I have apparently been the only one on this forum using his real name until now.”

It seems that in addition to being factually challenged, this person is also identity challenged.

you can probably add slingshotengaged as another name...... if it counts from another forum

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

There seems to be a lot of press today about the SL like the following in the LDS. I feel beneath the humorous exterior of this letter is a clever and apt analogy as to why the new SL legislation may have trouble gaining much traction in Concord....that and the fact that our reps and senators, as I understand it, have become weary so many years of arguing this legislation. The letter underscores the "doublespeak" that has been alluded to in this forum. JMO

Letters
Is the 'safe' boating crowd really trying to repeal DWI law?
Dec 02, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Any truth to the rumor that the "safe" boating gang is filing another "safety enhancement" bill, this one to repeal our Boating-While-Intoxicated law, eliminating defined blood alcohol limits in favor of allowing boaters to "use their own judgment and drink till they don't think they are sober enough to helm a boat, according to prevailing conditions"?

Ed Chase

The editor of Laconia Daily Sun should have enough journalistic integrity to refuse to print such manure. I have a lot of business aquaintances who advertise in the Sun, so if they keep this up I will urge these people to stop advertising in this rag. While they're at it, I suppose SBONH will sponsor a bill to make everyone sail and kayak naked (and why not drunk too). This will be the next embellishment by ELMOOOSECHASER! I want some of whatever MOOSEMANCHASER is smoking.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

There seems to be a lot of press today about the SL like the following in the LDS. I feel beneath the humorous exterior of this letter is a clever and apt analogy as to why the new SL legislation may have trouble gaining much traction in Concord....that and the fact that our reps and senators, as I understand it, have become weary so many years of arguing this legislation. The letter underscores the "doublespeak" that has been alluded to in this forum. JMO

Letters
Is the 'safe' boating crowd really trying to repeal DWI law?
Dec 02, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Any truth to the rumor that the "safe" boating gang is filing another "safety enhancement" bill, this one to repeal our Boating-While-Intoxicated law, eliminating defined blood alcohol limits in favor of allowing boaters to "use their own judgment and drink till they don't think they are sober enough to helm a boat, according to prevailing conditions"?

Ed Chase

You can't just make this stuff up. Oh wait, I guess you can!

[VtSteve]

What did our gang of merry little SL supporters do in recent days.

They lied about me sending a PM (by now, most know no such thing happened)

They lied about me threatening them (again, nope)

They lied about me being this weird gun owner (nope, none of them)
(They also continue to lie on another site about this, posted as fact. Thanks El

Now they lie on this forum and in others, , and in the newspaper, about a safe boating organization supporting a new law about eliminating BUI laws.

(This is particularly interesting since a famous accident on Winni occurred after the perpetrator was drinking to excess in a WINFAB founder's bar. All receipts turned up missing).

I repeat BIM. Exactly what was incorrect about labeling many of you as liars? Yes, that's exactly what I call people in person that engage in this sort of behavior.

Interesting lives these people live.


So there's what I have guys, just through today, and it's an abbreviated version.

[Bearislandmoose]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

What did our gang of merry little SL supporters do in recent days.

They lied about me sending a PM (by now, most know no such thing happened)

They lied about me threatening them (again, nope)

They lied about me being this weird gun owner (nope, none of them)
(They also continue to lie on another site about this, posted as fact. Thanks El

Now they lie on this forum and in others, , and in the newspaper, about a safe boating organization supporting a new law about eliminating BUI laws.

(This is particularly interesting since a famous accident on Winni occurred after the perpetrator was drinking to excess in a WINFAB founder's bar. All receipts turned up missing).

I repeat BIM. Exactly what was incorrect about labeling many of you as liars? Yes, that's exactly what I call people in person that engage in this sort of behavior.

Interesting lives these people live.


So there's what I have guys, just through today, and it's an abbreviated version.

Oh shut up already. Go back to Vermont and worry about Lake Champlain. (I really wish the moderator would let this one through...I'm just so sick of this guy's garbage). Blah blah blah blah blah. Put a sock in it.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I have said this before, but I guess I have to say it again. Mr. Hartman was a Bear Island neighbor but not a friend. I knew him to say hello to. I have many reasons to support the SL the primary one being children's camps.

This past summer OCDACTIVE stopped by my place on Bear for a beer. We had a nice talk and then he took my son and I for a ride on his performance boat. He even let me take the controls for a short time. It was a lot of fun. If there was a way to exempt him and other responsible performance boaters from the speed limit I would be in favor of it. There isn't.

You may find it easier to believe that speed limit supporters hate performance boats. The truth is more complex.

Not the ”I’m afraid for the campers” schtick again…I know, I know, all those menacing cowboys in their gawd awful, dangerous, fast and loud boats endangering, no terrorizing those rich and defenseless campers!

Seriously, it’s not complex at all. The needs of the entitled few caused them use their money and influence for their own selfish ends before a quiescent public was fully aware of your grand scheme. It's a sad truth that is repeated all too often in our society. Spin it any way you like, the fact is that the Hathaway accident sparked into motion the arrogance of you and others of the same opinion the desire to eliminate powerboats from the Lake. Performance boats are the only the first type on your agenda. If you had your way there would be no power boats allowed on the lake at all. Except of course for the privileged few like you who own island property.


But you didn’t count on a grass roots group such as SBONH gaining as much traction as they have, did you? It’ll be interesting to see your next move.

[BroadHopper]

We have 20 mph speed limits when approaching schools in NH. We should be able to have 20 mph speed limit aproaching summer camps. Or steer way the heck away from them, which I do for years.

45 mph near a summer camp is way too fast so this 45 mph speed limit is not the best idea to protect the campers. Perhaps placing bouy(s) where boaters have to steer away from the front of the camps is a better method than speed limits? Declaring between bouys and the camps NWZ? That is the step in the right direction. I don't see camps in the middle of The Broads.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Yankee

... those rich and defenseless campers!... ...the Hathaway accident...

1. Of the three camps on or near Bear Island, two are operated by the YMCA and the third by the Girl Scouts of America. Not exactly rich kids camps. And they all offer camperships (free tuition) to low income families.


2. His name was Hartman.

[VtSteve]

BI, I know your opinions for what needs to be changed on the lake, and your vision for the lake in general, is quite a bit more complex and different in many ways than the traditional SL supporter. Some things I agree with you about, others, not so much. But when you don't hide your intentions, it's good to hear them.

I fully understand what happened with the Hartman tragedy, and I only hope there is some way to prevent another tragedy like that one. I disagree with what many proposed as a solution to those problems, which are a curse on waterways everywhere. There are two facets of the case that seem to be prevalent in many of those cases, but certainly not all.

1) Drinking
2) Night time

I suggest people read, once again, the facts of that case, in particular the appeals Judge opinion. I will not drag that case on the thread again.

What's needed everywhere is to get the cowboys and drunks and careless people off the water. The speed limit does not address those people, whether they are being cowboys in a bowrider or a pontoon boat. I fully understand the knee-jerk reaction of people in the cases talked about the most. Unfortunately, the SL supporters did a great disservice by not addressing the facts of the cases, or even the overwhelming circumstantial evidence. They mostly supported legislation because they were angry towards a group of people, a small group at that.

The CG Rule 6 provides LEO's with a great deal of latitude in enforcing the safety aspects of boating. They also form the very basis for my own boating rules. The CG navigation rules apply equally well on inland waterways as they do in the ocean. Obviously, the ocean lends itself to different interpretations and circumstances.

People that don't understand the CG Rule 6 should not be on the water in a boat, IMNSHO. There are many people that boat within the Winni speed limits that also should be talked to my a MP, or simply ejected.

It's really too bad that the people that were overly anxious in getting their little SL law in place, did absolutely nothing else to promote safe boating. They also developed a fairly course relationship with the MP, who would ultimately be responsible for enforcing it. It seems that many problems have been pointed out, but very few solutions proposed. One of the very reasons that an organization was founded to address common sense solutions, for everyone, not just them.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

1. Of the three camps on or near Bear Island, two are operated by the YMCA and the third by the Girl Scouts of America. Not exactly rich kids camps. And they all offer camperships (free tuition) to low income families.

The two YMCA/YWCA camps located on the rising sun side of Bear Island, Camp Lawrence and Camp Nokomis look to be loaded full of campers, while the Girl Scout camp, Camp Monotomy, which is on the mainland opposite Bear Island looks to be a heavily treed wilderness and swampy area from the road and has not been operating as a traditional girls camp for aproximately five years or more. The gate at the entrance is padlocked closed for about 355 out of 365 days/year.

In the past when it was operating it was not unusual to see a few of the girl scout councilors sitting or standing just outside the gate smoking a cigarette which I assume was due to a 'no smoking' policy within camp property.

I tried to find a website for Camp Menotomy, Meredith NH, but with no success.

It is a large large area with a large totally treed and undeveloped waterfront, and presumably pays no property taxes because it is owned by the Girl Scouts. And at the same time, it is a non-operating camp with no Girl Scout campers, councilors, activities.......no-nothing....just a large empty wilderness area that is home to at least one black bear, a number of deer, and a fox or two. The 'no hunting signs' are posted all along the perimeter Meredith Neck Rd.

It is a terrific waterfront area for kayaking, canoing, and fishing. Large big rocks, boulders & outcroppings are pretty common along the waterfront area. It all looks like a set from a King Kong movie or something!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Mr. Hartman was a Bear Island neighbor but not a friend. I knew him to say hello to.

1) He could have been your pilot at American Airlines...and to have retired after forty years as a professional in air travel, he ends up fatally crushed off Bear Island by a professional in the Marina business.

2) Many didn't know him.

http://tinyurl.com/293nwh

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) He could have been your pilot at American Airlines...and to have retired after forty years as a professional in air travel, he ends up fatally crushed off Bear Island by a professional in the Marina business.

2) Many didn't know him.

http://tinyurl.com/293nwh

I know airline pilots who have put in 40, 50 years flying only to get 10 cents on the dollar in pension. Their company went bankrupt. One is working retail for $10 an hour in town.

Mrs Hartmann is a good friend of my girl friend. She ask that the incident do not get dragged into the speed limit debate. Having said this before on this site, the majority of the folks here go by her wish. You and other trolls keep bringing this up!

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

...Mrs Hartmann is a good friend of my girl friend. She ask that the incident do not get dragged into the speed limit debate. Having said this before on this site, the majority of the folks here go by her wish. You and other trolls keep bringing this up!

APS didn't bring it up. Yankee did in post #24.

It is usually anti-SL people that bring it up because they believe this is the reason we have speed limits. The truth is they are wrong, but they will not let it go.

My preference is that we drop this subject forever. However, in the future, if someone makes this false claim, expect me to respond.

[BroadHopper]

I apologize in this thread. I'm not about to go to the other threads and see who's first. I'm sick of hearing this bull crap.

I just can't find it a coincidence when WinnFabs was formed shortly after the Littlefield accident. Sandy Helves, one of the WinnFabs founders, is a Bear Island resident and she have brought this accident up in a number of her speeches in the public hearings. Can't say she represent 'Bear Island' as I know a number of residents who are against the SL.

BTW APS, Littlefield is in the insurance business, he is only a nephew of the marina owner. Another accusation.