Another Nail in Bike Week's Coffin ??

[GBGX2]

Can't be good news for vendors....(at least in Meredith)

http://www.nh1.com/news/town-to-char...torcycle-week/

[Winnisquamer]

You're expected to pay between 450-500$ for a permit to be allowed to sell goods to the public during the event week? Article made it seem like its only for people vending food too.

To be honest I would have expected that to be normal practice. You have to pay to play

[GBGX2]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

You're expected to pay between 450-500$ for a permit to be allowed to sell goods to the public during the event week? Article made it seem like its only for people vending food too.

To be honest I would have expected that to be normal practice. You have to pay to play

I would agree with you... I am surprised as you are that they didn't always charge but another perceived "negative" change and perhaps less participation.

[Woodsy]

Meredith is following in Laconia's footsteps! Unfortunately. I bet we see even more of the big vendors at NHIS next year....

Then again it also cost the local businesses to be part of the Laconia Bike Week Association...

people will still come to the Weirs even if the bigger vendors are at the track.

Woodsy

[Acrossamerica]

Can one then also assume that during the vastly attractive hockey tournament in the winter that all vendors will also be charged a similar fee. If not then the vendors shall have a fine court case for discriminatory fees which will cost the Town of Meredith more money than they will ever receive from the vendors.

Charging $500 for one week's worth of commerce is the same as charging a year round food vendor (read restaurant) a fee of $26,000 - pretty steep protection money. Even the mafia did not extract that large a sum from there
"clients"

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Acrossamerica

Can one then also assume that during the vastly attractive hockey tournament in the winter that all vendors will also be charged a similar fee. If not then the vendors shall have a fine court case for discriminatory fees which will cost the Town of Meredith more money than they will ever receive from the vendors.

Charging $500 for one week's worth of commerce is the same as charging a year round food vendor (read restaurant) a fee of $26,000 - pretty steep protection money. Even the mafia did not extract that large a sum from there
"clients"

Except that this event, Bike Week, requires a significant expenditure for public safety, DPW, Etc. It cannot fairly be compared to a permanent restaurant that may never require any services from the town.

I do not see the comparison to the hockey tournament for the same reason. It also has an insignificant impact on the town's budget.

It is more fair that the participants assume the cost than it would be to pass it on to the taxpayers.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Except that this event, Bike Week, requires a significant expenditure for public safety, DPW, Etc. It cannot fairly be compared to a permanent restaurant that may never require any services from the town.

I do not see the comparison to the hockey tournament for the same reason. It also has an insignificant impact on the town's budget.

It is more fair that the participants assume the cost than it would be to pass it on to the taxpayers.

Thanks for making the obvious point. It was the first thing that poped into my mind when I read Across America's post.

[Lakegeezer]

The vendors at the Meredith hockey tourny are on state property (the ice), not town property. That might also make a difference in the fees from bike week.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The vendors at the Meredith hockey tourny are on state property (the ice), not town property. That might also make a difference in the fees from bike week.

The lake is not "state property". Every part of the lake is in whatever town it is in such as Laconia, Meredith Etc. If you look at the right chart you will see the town lines crossing the lake.

[wifi]

The $500 flat fee is unfair, the small hot dog stand pays the same as the big boys. Would have been better to have a prepared food tax, like the state does on restaurants. It is the number of people overloading the system, not the number of vendors. It is really knifing small business in the back.

Then again, maybe the small guys can get together and form a LLC, as one business, and divide the profits up later. Again, it is too many people, not too many vendors.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by wifi

The $500 flat fee is unfair, the small hot dog stand pays the same as the big boys. Would have been better to have a prepared food tax, like the state does on restaurants. It is the number of people overloading the system, not the number of vendors. It is really knifing small business in the back.

Then again, maybe the small guys can get together and form a LLC, as one business, and divide the profits up later. Again, it is too many people, not too many vendors.

Big reason why you don't see hot dog stands in Laconia. The vendor fees are imposed year round. It also affect health and craft fairs. You don't see them in Laconia. The state even hold their job fairs outside of Laconia at the Belknap Mall.

I have organized a number health fairs in NH. I organized one in Laconia a few years ago, but the city insist all the vendors buy a license. Since health fair vendors are non-profit and provide free service, they cannot afford the fees. Health Fair was called off.

I can see the effect in Meredith with Pond Hockey and the Fishing Derby.

[Woodsy]

I personally don't have a problem with vendor fees. But I do think $500 is a little unreasonable considering the only places vendors set up in Meredith are Laconia Harley & harts Turkey farm. I expect those places will struggle to fill the vendor spots as more of them go to Loudon or elsewhere.

That being said....

You can bet your bottom dollar Meredith will impose the same fees on the Pond Hockey vendors... they too require special coverage from the town in the form of traffic details, Police, Fire & EMS presence etc etc....

Woodsy

[swnoel]

The government needs to justify it's existence. Explain what additional cost it is to the city, for someone to own and struggle, attempting to make a living selling hot dogs!! Why do you need a $500 permit or for that matter any permit? Maybe it would be better to set up tolls into the city and charge people for using their streets! Just think... it might work to keep people out of the city, resulting in thousands of dollars in savings!

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Everyone is tripping over a $500 fee, no one is talking about the Thousands of dollars LHD charges for a vendors spot... Odd.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Everyone is tripping over a $500 fee, no one is talking about the Thousands of dollars LHD charges for a vendors spot... Odd.

If that is the case, LHD can add $450-$500 to each vendor spot or take that from their fee.

I too am surprised that Meredith did not already have a vendor fee.

BTW, from Laconia Daily Sun it is $500 for food vendors and $450 for others. Not that that plays in to this discussion.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by swnoel

The government needs to justify it's existence.

I read this rationale for the government's existence somewhere once, and thought it sounded good:

To form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I read this rationale for the government's existence somewhere once, and thought it sounded good:

To form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

Drink up my friend... drink up!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Drink up my friend... drink up!

I'll drink the Kool Aid that is the United States Constitution any day. The ideas and ideals that it describes are just as valid today as they were 229 years ago.

Think about this: every person who is and ever has been a member of our armed forces and protects your rights and freedoms took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. Have they all been drinking the Kool Aid too? How insulting if you believe that's the case.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by swnoel

The government needs to justify it's existence. Explain what additional cost it is to the city, for someone to own and struggle, attempting to make a living selling hot dogs!! Why do you need a $500 permit or for that matter any permit? Maybe it would be better to set up tolls into the city and charge people for using their streets! Just think... it might work to keep people out of the city, resulting in thousands of dollars in savings!

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost. Bike Week has become basically a break even event for the city. It is now set up so that the taxpayers do not have to foot the bill. And don't forget, every business owner pays the city for a permit so that they can park cars or have vendors on their property.

If you object to vendor permits would it be your intention that the taxpayers foot the bill for the increase in city expenses that week?

City employees get more overtime, local businesses get some much needed revenue after a long winter, and many new people visit and enjoy the area.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost.

You could also say that Laconia has figured out how much they can extract from Bike Week, and has increased the city budget for police, fire, etc. by that same amount.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, Laconia has figured out what additional cost it is to the city and collects the fees to offset that cost. Bike Week has become basically a break even event for the city. It is now set up so that the taxpayers do not have to foot the bill. And don't forget, every business owner pays the city for a permit so that they can park cars or have vendors on their property.

If you object to vendor permits would it be your intention that the taxpayers foot the bill for the increase in city expenses that week?

City employees get more overtime, local businesses get some much needed revenue after a long winter, and many new people visit and enjoy the area.

Are you suggesting that the vendors are the reason the bikers come to Laconia? If so... then charge them, but something tells me it's the other way around! To even suggest they should pay for the additional cost to the community is ridiculous! Laconia happens to be on the lake which happens to be a summer tourist stop...it's not the vendors fault. It's just another way for government to extort money from businesses under the guise they here to help them!

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bc&oe=58528737

[SAMIAM]

Also...state of NH takes 9% rooms and meals tax from all food vendors.....add that to the $500 fee

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The lake is not "state property". Every part of the lake is in whatever town it is in such as Laconia, Meredith Etc. If you look at the right chart you will see the town lines crossing the lake.

The various towns own the islands in the lake but the state owns the water and holds it in trust for the public's use.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

The various towns own the islands in the lake but the state owns the water and holds it in trust for the public's use.

The towns do not own the islands. Most islands are owned by individuals or many individuals and the islands come under the jurisdiction of whatever town they are in. The rules and regulations, such as zoning, of the town that the islands are in are also in effect on the islands.

The exception to this is islands like Stonedam that are held in other manners such as conservation trusts.

[AC2717]

I think the difference might be that Labatt's sponsors the hockey tournament and the organizers and they dump a lot of money into the town to be able to do this and it is paid for in advance by those that are participating in the tournament and the vendors go to them for set up space
vs bike week where each one is on their own with the town itself and participants are not paying anything unless they purchase from the vendors

[thinkxingu]

Gee, I dunno fellas, but I sure do like clean water, public education, social security and Medicare, the national parks, and, well, a whole lot of what the government has provided, including the freedom to write this post right here while relaxing peacefully in my safe bed just a couple nice streets from the fire station.

Is government in the USA perfect? No. It never was and never will be because it's run by humans. But it's still pretty damn good.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[ITD]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Gee, I dunno fellas, but I sure do like clean water, public education, social security and Medicare, the national parks, and, well, a whole lot of what the government has provided, including the freedom to write this post right here while relaxing peacefully in my safe bed just a couple nice streets from the fire station.

Is government in the USA perfect? No. It never was and never will be because it's run by humans. But it's still pretty damn good.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

You know, I generally agree with your sentiment here, but with a very important distinction. First, the government doesn't "provide" the freedom to express yourself via a post or any other manner, that is right granted by the "Creator" which the government is charged to protect and not impede. Second, the government does not "provide" infrastructure or programs, taxpayers do, the government administers those functions, usually not very efficiently.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by GBGX2

Can't be good news for vendors....(at least in Meredith)

http://www.nh1.com/news/town-to-char...torcycle-week/

Back to the main topic of this thread if I may.
Was there any opposition to this ordinance when the town held their public meetings on it?

[ursa minor]

I think I'm gonna get a vendor license to sell tin foil hats at Bike Week next year....

Seriously, I think there's enough politics floating around everywhere else to satisfy everyone's needs. How we got from a topic of vendor fees for Bike Week to debating Constitutional law is beyond me. Not seeing how it relates to the lake.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Back to the main topic of this thread if I may.
Was there any opposition to this ordinance when the town held their public meetings on it?

Meredith has posted a video of the select board meeting from August 15th where they discuss these fees. You can view the videos here:

http://meredithtownnh.iqm2.com/Citizens/Default.aspx

The discussion is towards the end of the meeting. If you open the agenda and click on the motorcycle week item it will take you to the start of the discussion in the video.

[TiltonBB]

City shows $3,114 net income from Motorcycle Week as it closes books.


http://laconiadailysun.com/newsx/loc...k-books-closed

[Rich]

I have to ask, why do people want bike week killed?

I know many people don't like the crowds, the traffic, the noise, etc. But if instead of "Bike Week" this was "Boat Week", with people walking around in bathing suits and bikini's made of fabric instead of leather, would you be happier?

It reminds me of the old saying "Be careful what you ask for, as you may get it!" and often you get more than you expected!

So if bike week disappeared, it would mean a lot of lost tourism, and therefore a lot of money lost to the region during the summer.

Would this mean a lot of businesses could end up closing or do very poorly and end up running with on a fiscally fragile shoestring?

Alternatively do you think that businesses and property owners near the Weirs would finally see the light and decide that a facelift is needed to the area to attract more summer tourists? IMHO, the Weirs looks very run down and neglected vs other lake destination towns like Meridith, Alton, Wolfboro, etc.

[MAXUM]

Maybe the answer is simply that bike week is not as big a boom to the local economy as it may appear. If it is that important you can bet that local businesses and town governments will work to keep it alive, however if it turn out that it is revenue neutral or costing towns/tax payers money to logistically support it why would there be any reason to keep it going? With Laconia reporting a mere 3K in overall revenue it's tough to justify the work and effort when that same amount of money can be made in a day whacking people launching boats 20 bucks a pop minus all the bike week drama many probably just as soon not deal with.

There has been plenty of discussion on here about revitalizing weirs beach... whether anything happens really comes down to if anyone with deep pockets sees an investment opportunity. As you say local businesses operating on a show string don't have that kind of capitol to play with so don't count on them to do much, they can't really. Thus far nobody with the wherewithal has stepped forward to spruce the place up, maybe because shrewd investors don't see a ROI worth the effort.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There has been plenty of discussion on here about revitalizing weirs beach...

http://www.citizen.com/news/2016-08-..._to_Weirs.html

[webmaster]

If I can jump in: I always thought that eliminating bike week might stop every building at the Weirs from turning into a parking lot that would earn enough during bike week to survive for the full year.

Then last week I was listening to an interview on 1490 with a Laconia official who said that most buildings sold recently in Laconia are now empty lots and that this was a serious problem for the city. I guess it's not just the Weirs.

[noreast]

though I'm in agreement with MAXUM. I would caution against using the towns figure to call it revenue neutral. We all know that a town can spend the hell out of what there given, so a local boondoggle Is more likely what happens. It's been a long time since I've seen a body spend less than it takes in. But I do think there would be a massive clean up and rejuvenation If It went away. Out of a feeling of necessity, the city may go against all It's Instincts and approach business with some incentive.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by webmaster

http://www.citizen.com/news/2016-08-..._to_Weirs.html

From that link:

stamped, colored sidewalks estimated to be $60,000 that Dunleavy said is a coloring embedded into a concrete material throughout the thickness of the crosswalk; $17,000 for brick pavers in curb bump outs, with 66 percent brick and 34 percent concrete, designed for pedestrian safety and aesthetics;

My town did that a few years ago. Looked great for a few years. They even repainted some of the areas once or twice. Now a lot of it looks like paint that wasn't kept fresh every year, in other words, a bit worn out.

I guess people think this is a good option for the money at the time of installation and everyone will say "This looks great!", but then a few years later they decide not to keep up with the maintenance costs and it starts to look like crap. At least true brick pavers age and patina nicely over time. Stamped and colored things just look worn out over time!

If anyone is a Laconia resident, you may want to point this out to those that think it's a great idea, have them visit other towns where this was done several years ago.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rich

From that link:



My town did that a few years ago. Looked great for a few years. They even repainted some of the areas once or twice. Now a lot of it looks like paint that wasn't kept fresh every year, in other words, a bit worn out.

I guess people think this is a good option for the money at the time of installation and everyone will say "This looks great!", but then a few years later they decide not to keep up with the maintenance costs and it starts to look like crap. At least true brick pavers age and patina nicely over time. Stamped and colored things just look worn out over time!

If anyone is a Laconia resident, you may want to point this out to those that think it's a great idea, have them visit other towns where this was done several years ago.

The concrete is colored. No paint is needed. There are no maintenance costs.

The dye is put into the mixer in a regular load of concrete to achieve the desired color so that even if there is a chip in the concrete it is still the same color. The stamping is to put a pattern on the surface of the concrete such as a cobblestone or brick pattern. It looks nice when done right and is very durable.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The concrete is colored. No paint is needed. There are no maintenance costs.

The dye is put into the mixer in a regular load of concrete to achieve the desired color so that even if there is a chip in the concrete it is still the same color. The stamping is to put a pattern on the surface of the concrete such as a cobblestone or brick pattern. It looks nice when done right and is very durable.

I have a stamped patio as a main entrance at my commercial building. I had it installed 10 years ago and it still looks great. It should however be resealed so there is some maintenance.

[ursa minor]

Originally Posted by Maxum

There has been plenty of discussion on here about revitalizing weirs beach... whether anything happens really comes down to if anyone with deep pockets sees an investment opportunity. As you say local businesses operating on a show string don't have that kind of capitol to play with so don't count on them to do much, they can't really. Thus far nobody with the wherewithal has stepped forward to spruce the place up, maybe because shrewd investors don't see a ROI worth the effort.

Having seen the Meredith of the 1970's / 80's vs. what it's become today, I'd have to say anything is possible. I think it's only a matter of time before the property value / potential of the Weirs lakefront area brings a large scale redevelopment. Some will welcome it, many will be upset to see the area change from what they remember from growing up.

Bike week could benefit greatly from some renewal in the Weirs, there seems to be plenty of bike traffic in the other towns around the lake, particularly Meredith. Time will tell, I don't see any sign of real estate devaluation any where in the lakes region much less anywhere in the northeast.