Seaplane Base and runway 19 Mile Bay Proposed

[DEJ]

I am not negative at all regarding this, I just simply oppose the use of the wharf for this business for the reasons I stated. You do not agree, fine. Take care.

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[P-3 Guy]

And as long as the town doesn't allow improvements beyond cutting down the posts there never will be.

How is cutting down the wharf posts an improvement for anyone but Mr. Wood? For many boat operators who want to tie up at the wharf, lower posts could end up being a detriment.

Since you seem to have taken on the role of Mr. Wood's mouthpiece, perhaps you can answer some questions specifically about the wharf posts and how Mr. Wood proposes to secure his seaplane to the wharf, questions that I have asked multiple times here and that Mr. Wood has ignored even as he declared the thread "definitely dead":

“For tail clearance. It's not just for me. That's what I'm trying to convey.”
If it's not just for you, who else wants to have the wharf posts shortened?

How far will the tail project over the wharf when the aircraft is alongside?

When the aircraft is secured to the wharf, what will the aircraft's orientation be?

It sounds like the aft ends of the floats will be facing the wharf, is this correct?

"As low as possible down to deck height... leaving enough for boaters to tie to." What is the maximum post height that would be acceptable to you?

Do you want to shorten all posts, or only certain posts?

[The Real BigGuy]

If all ESA wanted was to periodically stop by to pick people or drop by for an ice cream they didn’t have to get state approval for a seaplane base. As he himself has said a seaplane can land anywhere on the lake, it does not need a state & FAA approved base. As far as a GPS waypoint for navigation, it also doesn’t have to be a fully an official base for one. All they need is a gps unit with a readout to find out what the waypoint is and then you put it on the Seaplane pilots association message board and it is available to everyone who wants to use it.

I agree with CowTimes ESA could have simply answered the questions or posted the same information that Liforrelaxin did. It appears to me that his story has been constantly changing as he sees push back from the public.


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[FlyingScot]

One other thing that ESA is implicitly requesting is dock space even when he is not docked. If boats tie up while ESA is in the air, he will not be able to let his passengers off. This is very different than the barges. Essentially like The Dive, he needs to rent for the entire summer.

[Force5]

Video of selectmen’s meeting :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgOoOKovOys


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I think the selectman think this is not a business. I think they are doing a great job but are being mislead. This is a video of the 4/26/21 meeting. They need to be aware that they are planning a sea plan tour business. Have they seen the original facebook posting (see below) of the sea plane tour business? She immediately takes it down and reposts. They are planning a tour business and events to be held there. WATCH this video and the one submitted above by the Real Big Guy. OMG I cant believe this is happening. IF it were not for the tall posts on the town dock they would be using and abusing it right now. They had to tell the town because they wanted to cut down the posts for safety reasons. And the very insane thing is the photo taken for facebook shows how the wing goes over 2/3 of the dock/pier. Thank goodness the town has an ordinance of one hour to park there. I guess you could leave and then come back multiple times and end up using the dock for 5 hours if five trips. And if you ice fish you may not be able to put your bob house where you want to (undetermined ). If you are in favor of this PLEASE watch the videos and YOU determine if this seems sneaky and deceptive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIdXBJi0mK4

Today, Pier 19 Country Store posted on Facebook a photo of the seaplane with a caption under it saying: There’s been a rumor going around that our store is trying to set up a seaplane tour business, it is true! Then within 30 mins later she takes down the post and now says: How exciting it is to be able to have a seaplane drop in for a day. We welcome seaplanes here! I took a screen shot of the original posting

[TheTimeTraveler]

The fact that the wing pretty much goes across the entire wharf blocking quick emergengy vehicle access to the fireboat and fish and game boat is in my opinion the reason planes should not be able to use the wharf. Imagine if there was more than one plane tied up to the wharf and ambulance and fire personnel needed the wharf how could those planes be moved quickly? The answer is they could not.
The store owner and epic should be looking into expanding the store owners dock for this business, perhaps they are. No matter where/if this business is run from I am sure the residents of 19 mile bay are not going to tolerate 9 or so flights a day. Epic can if he chooses can run this business immediately from his private dock on mirror lake. I wonder why he is not doing so?

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At the end of your post: ....."Epic can if he chooses can run this business immediately from his private dock on Mirror Lake. I wonder why he is not doing so"?

My guess is that existing zoning "may" prohibit him from operating off of his Mirror Lake Dock. I believe ALL of Mirror Lake is zoned as Residential. Pier 19 is zoned as Business.

Don't take my word for it as it is just a guess on my part, but it does make a lot of sense.

[CowTimes]

Pier 19 is zoned as Business.

Hate to be technical, but this is another process issue that has been ignored so far by the proponents. Pier 19 is in a residential zone and had to request a variance from the Board of Adjustment and Planning Board approval before they could reopen the store with the new owners. As anyone that followed that process knows, this didn’t provide a blank check for all types of commercial operations there. An airport/seaplane tour operation/seaplane base was not included in the variance/Planning Board approvals.

[LIforrelaxin]

As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes, rivers and the ocean where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.

[P-3 Guy]

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.

I am the person that made the mouthpiece reference, because Mr. Wood declared the thread "definitely dead," went away (or at least stopped posting), and then you took up his cause as if he was feeding you his lines.

Discussing something requires two parties. Mr. Wood chose not to answer several questions that I asked him multiple times, after he invited people to ask him questions about his proposed business. I would call that a barrier to a productive discussion.

Mr. Wood did send me a private message and we had at least the beginning of a discussion (although he still didn't answer most of the questions I had asked), until he realized that I was not a Tuftonboro resident or taxpayer, at which point he dismissed me as an "agitator." I guess in Mr. Wood's mind if you aren't a Tuftonboro resident or taxpayer, your opinion about what might happen on the lake or at a Tuftonboro public facility that you use is not relevant; you are just an "agitator" with some kind of vindictive agenda who is in his way. Real classy.

[thinkxingu]

As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.I appreciate your pro-local-business stance, I do, but the Go-Fast-Boat analogy is a false equivalency and one that sums up the issue many people have expressed: this is a PUBLIC dock that should not in any way be reserved or limited by COMMERCIAL use.

Assuming the noise isn't really that bad, which there seems to be some question about, I love the idea of having a base there...just NOT on the public's space. Do the work and set up some new docks, work with the store and association, etc. to make it happen, but it's not ok to use public spaces for long periods of time to make money.

A note: there are logical inconsistencies in both Epic's original claims and your repeated ones. For example, it's impossible to know when to book a pick-up at a dock without being sure there will be space to dock. Likewise, without knowing there will be space to return. Both of these require either holding/reserving said space for long periods or taking the chance that the space will just happen to be available each time. We know the latter can't possibly be used for a business making reservations throughout the day.

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[FlyingScot]

As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.

I was unsure at first, but now I definitely think you're ESA's mouthpiece. Far too much passion and length in your posts for us to think you're neutral.

On the specifics--Sure, the optimal height of the posts is debatable and probably not a big deal. The big deals are the noise/intrusion every 30 minutes and the public's ownership of the dock for all. The posts are just one of several tools the town has available if we come to believe this is not in the town's best interest

[The Real BigGuy]

Two things:

1) for LIforrelaxin: in fact the town is waiting to hear on a grant to rebuild Union Wharf. If you watch the Selectmen’s meeting video you will hear it discussed.

2) for those interested: I received an e-mail from a friend who is part of a group of Tuftonboro residents against the proposed seaplane base. It said that there is a Selectmen’s meeting on 6/7 to determine if the question of allowing the use of Union Wharf should move to a public hearing. I personally have not verified this.


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[LIforrelaxin]

I was unsure at first, but now I definitely think you're ESA's mouthpiece. Far too much passion and length in your posts for us to think you're neutral.

On the specifics--Sure, the optimal height of the posts is debatable and probably not a big deal. The big deals are the noise/intrusion every 30 minutes and the public's ownership of the dock for all. The posts are just one of several tools the town has available if we come to believe this is not in the town's best interest

You don't know me very well, anytime I choose to voice my opinion and do so at length and with passion. Let me speak about my passion in this case, my passion here is not all about ESA, or Seaplanes.... it is about acknowledging the fact that there can be use models outside of the Norm.

Businesses use union wharf all the time. So that isn't a logistical argument here, you can't say that someone can put a dumpster in the middle of the wharf (which I see done yearly if not more often) and call it ok, but then tell someone they can't bring a sea plane into the dock, because the wings extend out over the dock. So if the public access is deemed not suitable for business then it needs to apply to all business period end of story.....Equal treatment is what this is called, and yes I am very passionate about that.

Now In my eyes, as a public access point, I think that any business should require a permit to use the dock, and pay a fee based on hourly usage to do so.... This includes a private citizen that needs a dumpster placed on the wharf to clean out their island property. In this case the Dumpster company is the business, which would require the property owner to gain the permit and pay the fees....Or a construction company that needs to tie up their barge for a few hours, and load materials....And it extends to a commercial entity simply leaving a boat at the wharf for a longer period of time, then would be considered the norm for a recreation user (i.e. overnight, or over a weekend). This allows the town to control the usage of the pier for other then purely recreation purposes. If this is already going on, then why is everyone up in arms at this point. To operate a business from the wharf ESA would have to get the necessary permits. So my guess is this isn't the current situation.

Now if the FAA grants the runway identification, private pilots will see it as a navigation point, and may chose to stop in and check things out. Once on the water they are a boat, and like any boat have the right to tie up at the wharf safely... having lower posts facilitates that.... Once again I am pretty passionate about equal treatment......

Now if down the road ESA wants to run a sight seeing business, he is going to have to get permits from the town, etc.... To my knowledge that hasn't been done, and that is when the argument in this thread becomes relevant. If down the road the store wants to put in facilities to enable selling gas to sea planes, there will be permits from the Town, DES, and likely the FAA... once again that is the time for the arguments I see in this thread.....

Don't think I am 100% in agreement with ESA, I am not... what I do agree with him on is equal treatment.... the arguments here are not separating out the categories that need to be separated out..... The FAA runway designation is harmless not really worth worrying about, it simply adds a way point marking the location... a location where a sea plane operator could land anyway... I am sorry but private sea-plane operators, should have the same rights and accommodations as private boat owners.

Business aspects and concerns are a different debate, if the town doesn't have regulations in place that would prevent a business from utilizing the wharf with out prior notification then that is a town issue, and mistake.

[Seaplane Pilot]

You don't know me very well, anytime I choose to voice my opinion and do so at length and with passion. Let me speak about my passion in this case, my passion here is not all about ESA, or Seaplanes.... it is about acknowledging the fact that there can be use models outside of the Norm.

Businesses use union wharf all the time. So that isn't a logistical argument here, you can't say that someone can put a dumpster in the middle of the wharf (which I see done yearly if not more often) and call it ok, but then tell someone they can't bring a sea plane into the dock, because the wings extend out over the dock. So if the public access is deemed not suitable for business then it needs to apply to all business period end of story.....Equal treatment is what this is called, and yes I am very passionate about that.

Now In my eyes, as a public access point, I think that any business should require a permit to use the dock, and pay a fee based on hourly usage to do so.... This includes a private citizen that needs a dumpster placed on the wharf to clean out their island property. In this case the Dumpster company is the business, which would require the property owner to gain the permit and pay the fees....Or a construction company that needs to tie up their barge for a few hours, and load materials....And it extends to a commercial entity simply leaving a boat at the wharf for a longer period of time, then would be considered the norm for a recreation user (i.e. overnight, or over a weekend). This allows the town to control the usage of the pier for other then purely recreation purposes. If this is already going on, then why is everyone up in arms at this point. To operate a business from the wharf ESA would have to get the necessary permits. So my guess is this isn't the current situation.

Now if the FAA grants the runway identification, private pilots will see it as a navigation point, and may chose to stop in and check things out. Once on the water they are a boat, and like any boat have the right to tie up at the wharf safely... having lower posts facilitates that.... Once again I am pretty passionate about equal treatment......

Now if down the road ESA wants to run a sight seeing business, he is going to have to get permits from the town, etc.... To my knowledge that hasn't been done, and that is when the argument in this thread becomes relevant. If down the road the store wants to put in facilities to enable selling gas to sea planes, there will be permits from the Town, DES, and likely the FAA... once again that is the time for the arguments I see in this thread.....

Don't think I am 100% in agreement with ESA, I am not... what I do agree with him on is equal treatment.... the arguments here are not separating out the categories that need to be separated out..... The FAA runway designation is harmless not really worth worrying about, it simply adds a way point marking the location... a location where a sea plane operator could land anyway... I am sorry but private sea-plane operators, should have the same rights and accommodations as private boat owners.

Business aspects and concerns are a different debate, if the town doesn't have regulations in place that would prevent a business from utilizing the wharf with out prior notification then that is a town issue, and mistake.

The few on here that are accusing you of being a “mouthpiece for ESA” appear to me to be “self-appointed Town of Tuftonboro Officials” with nothing better to do. I wouldn’t give these people the time of day if it were me setting up this operation.

[FlyingScot]

Don't think I am 100% in agreement with ESA, I am not... what I do agree with him on is equal treatment....

ESA does have "equal treatment"--he can use the town's existing structures in accordance with the town's existing rules. He is asking for preferential treatment--changing existing structures, changing the length of time one can use those structures.

All for a business that is very likely to annoy his neighbors in order to entertain folks from out of town. Still hard to understand why you're so passionate about this particular topic

[DEJ]

LIforrelaxin, the next time you and epic talk or PM ask him why he does not run his sight seeing business from his private dock on Mirror Lake where he has a State approved water runway? Several have asked that question in this thread and so far he has refused to answer this and many other questions. Thanks.

[DEJ]

The few on here that are accusing you of being a “mouthpiece for ESA” appear to me to be “self-appointed Town of Tuftonboro Officials” with nothing better to do. I wouldn’t give these people the time of day if it were me setting up this operation.

No we are residents of the Town of Tuftonboro unlike the "mouthpiece" and we care and are concerned how our town property is or might be used in the future. It is that simple.

[LIforrelaxin]

No we are residents of the Town of Tuftonboro unlike the "mouthpiece" and we care and are concerned how our town property is or might be used in the future. It is that simple.

How do you know I am not a property owner in the town of Tuftonboro? Just because I chose not to advertise, where I have additional properties, don't assume to know where I do and don't have a vested interest....

As far as caring and concerning, I care about the entirety of the lakes region, and in the past have spent countless hours communicating with State officials regarding issues that I have strong opinions about. I back my communications up with facts and knowledge...

Its amazing that I have been able to create friendships with people on this forum over the years even when we don't see eye to eye on polarizing issues. But yet I do because I am willing to listen and accept not everyone views the world the same way I do.

As you continue to post I realize more and more, you are part of a select few people, that over the years have soured this forum, which was once filled with great conversations and peaceful debates. Instead of realizing that you and I don't see eye to eye, you seem to like to continue to take pot shots and guess at what you really know nothing about.

[DEJ]

How do you know I am not a property owner in the town of Tuftonboro? Just because I chose not to advertise, where I have additional properties, don't assume to know where I do and don't have a vested interest....

As far as caring and concerning, I care about the entirety of the lakes region, and in the past have spent countless hours communicating with State officials regarding issues that I have strong opinions about. I back my communications up with facts and knowledge...

Its amazing that I have been able to create friendships with people on this forum over the years even when we don't see eye to eye on polarizing issues. But yet I do because I am willing to listen and accept not everyone views the world the same way I do.

As you continue to post I realize more and more, you are part of a select few people, that over the years have soured this forum, which was once filled with great conversations and peaceful debates. Instead of realizing that you and I don't see eye to eye, you seem to like to continue to take pot shots and guess at what you really know nothing about.

Property owner and resident are completely different things. I am a resident and can vote on items that affect the town, a property owner cannot. Sucks but that is the way it is. Thanks for the "pot shot" at my character. Makes you no different than what you claim I do. Take care.

[thinkxingu]

Now, now fellas, let's keep it civil.

ESA and I chatted in the background a bit, and he shared much of the same with me as he did LI—specifically that this venture is part time and that it would be infrequent enough to be comparable to barge use, etc.

It appears either there's been a problem with messaging (I referenced his post about the proposal to the fire department with all-day hours, which he said was just an off-the-cuff example) or there's been a change in plans or someone is/people are being disingenuous.

Whatever it is, there's a process to solve these issues and going down the path of criticism and condemnation rather than legitimate discussion is both useless and circular.

Seaplanes, small businesses, and fun activities are awesome, and it's important to keep all those things in balance if we want a healthy Lakes Region.

Happy Saturday, friends—let's hope there's a weather miracle this weekend!

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[knowit]

If anyone has the screenshot of the Facebook post that the Pier 19 Store posted about starting a Seaplane Tour business rumor was true before they deleted it, I would like a copy of it to send to the Town Selectmen.
Thanks

[The Real BigGuy]

You don't know me very well, anytime I choose to voice my opinion and do so at length and with passion. Let me speak about my passion in this case, my passion here is not all about ESA, or Seaplanes.... it is about acknowledging the fact that there can be use models outside of the Norm.

Businesses use union wharf all the time. So that isn't a logistical argument here, you can't say that someone can put a dumpster in the middle of the wharf (which I see done yearly if not more often) and call it ok, but then tell someone they can't bring a sea plane into the dock, because the wings extend out over the dock. So if the public access is deemed not suitable for business then it needs to apply to all business period end of story.....Equal treatment is what this is called, and yes I am very passionate about that.

Now In my eyes, as a public access point, I think that any business should require a permit to use the dock, and pay a fee based on hourly usage to do so.... This includes a private citizen that needs a dumpster placed on the wharf to clean out their island property. In this case the Dumpster company is the business, which would require the property owner to gain the permit and pay the fees....Or a construction company that needs to tie up their barge for a few hours, and load materials....And it extends to a commercial entity simply leaving a boat at the wharf for a longer period of time, then would be considered the norm for a recreation user (i.e. overnight, or over a weekend). This allows the town to control the usage of the pier for other then purely recreation purposes. If this is already going on, then why is everyone up in arms at this point. To operate a business from the wharf ESA would have to get the necessary permits. So my guess is this isn't the current situation.

Now if the FAA grants the runway identification, private pilots will see it as a navigation point, and may chose to stop in and check things out. Once on the water they are a boat, and like any boat have the right to tie up at the wharf safely... having lower posts facilitates that.... Once again I am pretty passionate about equal treatment......

Now if down the road ESA wants to run a sight seeing business, he is going to have to get permits from the town, etc.... To my knowledge that hasn't been done, and that is when the argument in this thread becomes relevant. If down the road the store wants to put in facilities to enable selling gas to sea planes, there will be permits from the Town, DES, and likely the FAA... once again that is the time for the arguments I see in this thread.....

Don't think I am 100% in agreement with ESA, I am not... what I do agree with him on is equal treatment.... the arguments here are not separating out the categories that need to be separated out..... The FAA runway designation is harmless not really worth worrying about, it simply adds a way point marking the location... a location where a sea plane operator could land anyway... I am sorry but private sea-plane operators, should have the same rights and accommodations as private boat owners.

Business aspects and concerns are a different debate, if the town doesn't have regulations in place that would prevent a business from utilizing the wharf with out prior notification then that is a town issue, and mistake.

Just an FYI. The dumpsters you see placed on the wharf yearly are placed there by the town of Tuftonboro (owner of the Wharf) and at the towns request to support island residents with the disposal of large trash. Apples & oranges to ESA’s proposed use.


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[FlyingScot]

Now, now fellas, let's keep it civil.

ESA and I chatted in the background a bit, and he shared much of the same with me as he did LI—specifically that this venture is part time and that it would be infrequent enough to be comparable to barge use, etc.

It appears either there's been a problem with messaging (I referenced his post about the proposal to the fire department with all-day hours, which he said was just an off-the-cuff example) or there's been a change in plans or someone is/people are being disingenuous.

Whatever it is, there's a process to solve these issues and going down the path of criticism and condemnation rather than legitimate discussion is both useless and circular.

Seaplanes, small businesses, and fun activities are awesome, and it's important to keep all those things in balance if we want a healthy Lakes Region.

Happy Saturday, friends—let's hope there's a weather miracle this weekend!

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I agree on civility, and appreciate your always friendly approach.

But I think if you review all of ESA/Pier 19's various communications, you will question their credibility, and will have no doubt that their desire is a steady stream of flights every weekend. That's asking an awful lot of those who live there. (I am not in this group--I boat there once every week or two) Wouldn't you be pretty upset if these flights were taking off and landing at your camp every half hour?

Also, on civility/credibility--ESA posted something along the lines of the world would be a better place without his detractors. That's an extraordinarily nasty thing to write. I can't remember anything nastier on this forum.

[thinkxingu]

I agree on civility, and appreciate your always friendly approach.

But I think if you review all of ESA/Pier 19's various communications, you will question their credibility, and will have no doubt that their desire is a steady stream of flights every weekend. That's asking an awful lot of those who live there. (I am not in this group--I boat there once every week or two) Wouldn't you be pretty upset if these flights were taking off and landing at your camp every half hour?

Also, on civility/credibility--ESA posted something along the lines of the world would be a better place without his detractors. That's an extraordinarily nasty thing to write. I can't remember anything nastier on this forum.I addressed the appearance of mixed messages. What is really in flux will be determined during whatever hearing/process there is to be—it's not going to happen here.

And, even though I'm clearly not in favor of allowing commercial entities (long-term) use of public facilities (see also: comments on The Dive), I'm going to hope a solution is found that serves all as best as possible. That's what official processes are supposed to do, and do respectfully.

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[Sundancer320]

Keep in mind that the operating costs of a seaplane are not small. At only 3 passengers per flight, occasional flights a few times a week are not profitable. So what exactly is the business plan? In order to make it worth the fuel, insurance, time..etc.. then I would guess it would have to be more than occasional weekend flights..

[LIforrelaxin]

Property owner and resident are completely different things. I am a resident and can vote on items that affect the town, a property owner cannot. Sucks but that is the way it is. Thanks for the "pot shot" at my character. Makes you no different than what you claim I do. Take care.

You're right as a just a property owner I can't vote, but it does mean I have the right to speak to the town board, and with public official if I should so chose. Sometimes the public officials brush you off because they know you can't vote, but as a land owner, you have access to all the towns facilities, personal, and amenities.....

As it happens I am not even a resident of the State of NH, yet I have spent more time lobbying for various things in NH, then most residents. I take the time and have discussed at length many issues, with State Senators, and Congressman a like. I have also done this at the town level, because ultimately I have tax dollars that I invest into the state every year, and while it doesn't give me the right to vote (which I agree with)... it does give me the right to have my say and speak... And I find that most people and officials respect that. Why Because of how I approach the issues, because I look at all sides to the situation, and can take complex issue like we have here and seperate out all the aspects..... There are two issues here:

1. Designation for the 19 Mile Bay runway and Seaplane base, This is an FAA issues, doesn't even concern the town..

2. Issue would be the physical construction and development of said seaplane base and any commercial enterprises from it.

Issue #1 is in process and does no real harm, except add a way point, and an offical landing strip to maps and aeronautical GPS systems.... Sea Planes have the right to land on the lake already, and once on the water are considered a boat... The FAA paperwork has changed nothing, does not give ESA or the pier19 store the right to physically create a sea base, stop arguing over it.

Item #2, is what everyone is in arms over..... If Pier 19 wishes to work on the fuel dock or create a physical Sea Plane base, they will have to apply for permits from the state, DES etc. etc. etc. That is when and where you need to have this fight.... As for ESA, I would assume that the town of Tuftonboro would require him to have a business license to operate in the town, and further more an additional permit for him to utilize the Union Wharf to conduct that business. If the town doesn't have those requirements, then there is a problem with the town bi-laws, and that is where the frustration should be.

To this point, I have not seen evidence that a law has been broken, or a short cut been taken to try and avoid consequences... What I continue to see however is people afraid of change, that isn't change they agree with.....

Once again I will come back to a statement I made earlier:
I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

[Force5]

Pier 19 posted the one that is presently on their facebook page on 4:19 on 5/22. Later they posted this on a 4:43 and was taken down almost immediately. Unfortunately the part of title is only there. When you clicked it says "There is a rumor going around that Pier 19 is trying to set up a seaplane tour business, it is true!" It was immediately taken down.
If they deny that they are lying.

They are trying to make the selectman think this is only a few times a day and not a tour business. When you watch the video of the selectmens meeting they are dancing around the subject. That is exactly their plans. Epic plays a smooth used car salesman. It is horrifying to watch.

[ITD]

When can I get a ride?????

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Hi everyone. I want to clear the air about a lot of misinformation going around. I choose to do it here because on other forums people like to hide behind screen names and push false narratives. Please if anyone needs anything just call me up! Maybe I can take you for a ride!
1. I have started a small part time business called Epic Seaplane Adventures. I did this mostly because of the pandemic and needed a backup plan in case my real job went away. I have given so many rides in my plane people have always suggested that I charge for them, so I started the process of getting it running. I don't plan on interrupting my "lake life" but if you want an "air tour" I'm getting a website up and going. You could make a reservation and I can come to you if you have a private dock and I've been looking around for places (such as the Tuftonboro Town Dock) to be able to pick you up from. I can also do it from my place as well. So it's not specific, we just need to have the conversation, but can do it from anywhere really.
2. The woman who owns the Pier 19 Marketplace has been great! She is very enthusiastic about attracting business to her place. She and I put a proposal to the town to make the Public Dock Posts lower to allow, not just my plane, but any seaplane to approach safely without fear of hitting our tail on the dock. Also, we proposed adding some cushioning to the dock on the North Side. Doing this will then make the dock a more useful spot, not just for planes but for boats too. Contrary to the narrative being pushed this business will not be attached to Pier 19 Market Place. Just because she is helping promote it doesn't make it true. No one is going to set up shop on the dock, period end of story.
3. As you can imagine this has created a lot of buzz, especially for people who don't understand that seaplanes are legal here and allowed to land wherever it is safe. New Hampshire is not like other states and we are proud of that! I've heard everything from you can't block the fire boat to you can't use the dock for commercial purposes. Blocking the fireboat is not an issue because pilots can move the planes (they would never be left unattended and can be spun very quickly so their wing doesn't go over the dock see the photo) and commercial barges use the docks all the time for various reasons. Even the town puts a dumpster on the pier from time to time. (see photos of the town dock being blocked for commercial purposes and for private purposes as well)
4. There is a huge misconception that there is a seaplane "base" being developed in 19 Mile Bay. "Base" is a very scary word to the lay person. I can assure you it's only a specific FAA term. This was caused because the owner of Pier 19 Market Place, did what anyone can, (it's what I did with Mirror Lake and others have done such as Winter Harbor) and applied to the state and FAA (free of charge) to have 19 Mile Bay surveyed and registered as a Seaplane Landing Area. This does nothing more than allow 19 Mile Bay to be listed on an aviation chart and databases so that pilots can file flight plans to and from for safety reasons. So this outrage over a "base" is hyperbolic.
5. I invite anyone to get ahold of me to talk about this "business", more like a tax right off, that I can now charge people for taking rides! I can assure all of you that there is zero intention of making 19 Mile Bay an international airport. Let's all stop the panic now.
6. I have had some very disturbing ugly "threats" toward me. Some have stated that they will "block me" or any other planes from landing due to the right of way laws (because landing planes must technically give way to all vessels on the water). Some have come up with ideas of forming a blockade on the water or zig zagging in front of the landing plane to stop them. I want people to know that operating in a manner that jeopardizes safety intentionally to disrupt or harm someone is illegal and it's just not nice. If you have ever been over to Mirror Lake or know anyone over there, just come over and talk to us. They can tell you how much fun it is and how we all get along and operate safely.
7. There is a group of home owners on 19 Mile Bay that is forming an opposition to the idea of seaplanes coming in and out. Let's not name call them, but there is an acronym for this called NIMBY (stands for NOT IN MY BACKYARD). These folks are rallying support by spreading false information. If you run into them or are one of them feel free to get ahold of me to discuss this issue. I'm open to all comments. Each time I run into someone and discuss this issue with them the always walk away with a completely different idea of what they originally were told was happening. These people without the proper information are already talking about boycotting the Pier 19 Store! It's amazing how emotion and misinformation gets people upset. In this day and age of the internet people just look for reasons to be upset!
8. I grew up here and love this town. I'm a local guy. I can assure you that I'm not going to ruin anything or destroy what we all love. When I operate I do it with respect and love for this area and will continue to do so everyday. We need to be respectful of everyone. We all need equal access and treatment. That is all we are asking for! If people can block the dock for loading and unloading their stuff to go to the island, I just ask for the same access. (see photos) If commercial barges can come to the dock and do it for hire, I just ask for the same treatment and access. (see photos) Nothing more nothing less.
9. Lastly, to people who just openly don't want airplanes here, I'm not throwing this in your face at all, but the reality is that they are perfectly legal and there is nothing you can do about it. This is not a fight you will win. You do not own the lake, it's the state's property and seaplanes, just like your boat, have a right to come here. Again, this isn't a fight, it's a fact. It's a non arguable.
10. I ask for your support. Please email the selectman (selectmen@tuftonboro.org) to show support to allow us to lower the dock posts (see conceptual picture attached) and add cushioning to the dock at NO COST TO THE TAX PAYER. We will not alter the dock to change it's use in any way. In fact, we will improve it so that even more boaters can access it. Keep in mind that even if the dock posts don't get lowered that it will not prevent seaplanes from coming here. (see the photo of it there, notice the dock posts)
I'm sure some of you will have questions. I come on here in good faith. Please ask away! Nothing ugly. I accept hard questions. I just think this is a better forum than other forums where you can hide behind screen names.
Thank you all for your time.
T.R. Wood
Epic Seaplane Adventures
603-724-9104

[joey2665]

Best of luck I wish you nothing but success in your venture. Not a true comparison but nobody complains about the seaplane in paugus bay.


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[Force5]

Epic,
Sorry I don't believe anything you say. I have watched this video multiple times and come up with the same thing. You want your business based at the town docks. What about the insurance and liability that the selectmen discussed. You don't bring those things up! Run the business from your own dock. Your story keeps changing. Yes many don't want a seaplane tour business run out of Nineteen Mile Bay! You persona in the selectmens meeting was anything but humble but more about "we are going to do it no matter what"! Maybe some fair acting ability. "excellent question"
"excellent question" I never thought of that when referring to the concerns of the fireboat. I urge everyone to watch this video before you comment about yay or nay. People in 19 Mile Bay please watch and comment. Are there only a few who have watched this and feel the same way? I would like to hear everyone's comment after they watch the youtube video of the meeting.
The way you went about this was deceitful. Now tell me how much more business will Pier 19 get with the tour business? If she is not getting anything but a few patrons extra from your business why is she putting her neck out. Sounds like there is more to this. The scary thing is you said if a seaplane wants to land they have to call her!!! That is very scary. Of course she would never say no. Safe or not safe.
I have no qualms about a few seaplanes landing but I do have concerns about a tour business from the public dock.
This tour business is not going to help her store.
Watch people watch. There was no mention of a TOUR BUSINESS. Now that is deceitful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgOoOKovOys

[LIforrelaxin]

Epic,
Sorry I don't believe anything you say. I have watched this video multiple times and come up with the same thing. You want your business based at the town docks. What about the insurance and liability that the selectmen discussed. You don't bring those things up! Run the business from your own dock. Your story keeps changing. Yes many don't want a seaplane tour business run out of Nineteen Mile Bay! You persona in the selectmens meeting was anything but humble but more about "we are going to do it no matter what"! Maybe some fair acting ability. "excellent question"
"excellent question" I never thought of that when referring to the concerns of the fireboat. I urge everyone to watch this video before you comment about yay or nay. People in 19 Mile Bay please watch and comment. Are there only a few who have watched this and feel the same way? I would like to hear everyone's comment after they watch the youtube video of the meeting.
The way you went about this was deceitful. Now tell me how much more business will Pier 19 get with the tour business? If she is not getting anything but a few patrons extra from your business why is she putting her neck out. Sounds like there is more to this. The scary thing is you said if a seaplane wants to land they have to call her!!! That is very scary. Of course she would never say no. Safe or not safe.
I have no qualms about a few seaplanes landing but I do have concerns about a tour business from the public dock.
This tour business is not going to help her store.
Watch people watch. There was no mention of a TOUR BUSINESS. Now that is deceitful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgOoOKovOys

So this video is very interesting. I don't think it shows ESA or Pier 19 in sort of damaging light. What it does show is that the town selectmen, Peir 19 owner and even ESA, don't have the proper knowledge about boating laws in the state.

If offshore boats go ripping up and down that bay, causing a noise issue. The governing body is not the town at all, nor can the town do anything about it. What would happen would be that the Marine Patrol would be called. They could and would come to the area, perform field noise tests, and order any non-conforming boats off the lake......I know that law well, and how it is enforced.

What I believe this video show is an open dialogue between the town, ESA, and Peir19.... It seems to me the correct process are actually going on... I found it interesting that one of the Selectman even acknowledge that nothing wrong was done, that the state owns the water. What we seem to have here on the forum, is some very loud lobbyists against the idea. Absolutely no different then what happened on this forum with the speed limit on the lake.....

To those lobbyist, be loud that is your right, but ESA, has just laid out his number and name, for people to contact.... Will you do the same, I would love to talk to you and get your side of the story as well.....I am all about listening because the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

[Sundancer320]

Hi everyone. I want to clear the air about a lot of misinformation going around. I choose to do it here because on other forums people like to hide behind screen names and push false narratives. Please if anyone needs anything just call me up! Maybe I can take you for a ride!
1. I have started a small part time business called Epic Seaplane Adventures. I did this mostly because of the pandemic and needed a backup plan in case my real job went away. I have given so many rides in my plane people have always suggested that I charge for them, so I started the process of getting it running. I don't plan on interrupting my "lake life" but if you want an "air tour" I'm getting a website up and going. You could make a reservation and I can come to you if you have a private dock and I've been looking around for places (such as the Tuftonboro Town Dock) to be able to pick you up from. I can also do it from my place as well. So it's not specific, we just need to have the conversation, but can do it from anywhere really.
2. The woman who owns the Pier 19 Marketplace has been great! She is very enthusiastic about attracting business to her place. She and I put a proposal to the town to make the Public Dock Posts lower to allow, not just my plane, but any seaplane to approach safely without fear of hitting our tail on the dock. Also, we proposed adding some cushioning to the dock on the North Side. Doing this will then make the dock a more useful spot, not just for planes but for boats too. Contrary to the narrative being pushed this business will not be attached to Pier 19 Market Place. Just because she is helping promote it doesn't make it true. No one is going to set up shop on the dock, period end of story.
3. As you can imagine this has created a lot of buzz, especially for people who don't understand that seaplanes are legal here and allowed to land wherever it is safe. New Hampshire is not like other states and we are proud of that! I've heard everything from you can't block the fire boat to you can't use the dock for commercial purposes. Blocking the fireboat is not an issue because pilots can move the planes (they would never be left unattended and can be spun very quickly so their wing doesn't go over the dock see the photo) and commercial barges use the docks all the time for various reasons. Even the town puts a dumpster on the pier from time to time. (see photos of the town dock being blocked for commercial purposes and for private purposes as well)
4. There is a huge misconception that there is a seaplane "base" being developed in 19 Mile Bay. "Base" is a very scary word to the lay person. I can assure you it's only a specific FAA term. This was caused because the owner of Pier 19 Market Place, did what anyone can, (it's what I did with Mirror Lake and others have done such as Winter Harbor) and applied to the state and FAA (free of charge) to have 19 Mile Bay surveyed and registered as a Seaplane Landing Area. This does nothing more than allow 19 Mile Bay to be listed on an aviation chart and databases so that pilots can file flight plans to and from for safety reasons. So this outrage over a "base" is hyperbolic.
5. I invite anyone to get ahold of me to talk about this "business", more like a tax right off, that I can now charge people for taking rides! I can assure all of you that there is zero intention of making 19 Mile Bay an international airport. Let's all stop the panic now.
6. I have had some very disturbing ugly "threats" toward me. Some have stated that they will "block me" or any other planes from landing due to the right of way laws (because landing planes must technically give way to all vessels on the water). Some have come up with ideas of forming a blockade on the water or zig zagging in front of the landing plane to stop them. I want people to know that operating in a manner that jeopardizes safety intentionally to disrupt or harm someone is illegal and it's just not nice. If you have ever been over to Mirror Lake or know anyone over there, just come over and talk to us. They can tell you how much fun it is and how we all get along and operate safely.
7. There is a group of home owners on 19 Mile Bay that is forming an opposition to the idea of seaplanes coming in and out. Let's not name call them, but there is an acronym for this called NIMBY (stands for NOT IN MY BACKYARD). These folks are rallying support by spreading false information. If you run into them or are one of them feel free to get ahold of me to discuss this issue. I'm open to all comments. Each time I run into someone and discuss this issue with them the always walk away with a completely different idea of what they originally were told was happening. These people without the proper information are already talking about boycotting the Pier 19 Store! It's amazing how emotion and misinformation gets people upset. In this day and age of the internet people just look for reasons to be upset!
8. I grew up here and love this town. I'm a local guy. I can assure you that I'm not going to ruin anything or destroy what we all love. When I operate I do it with respect and love for this area and will continue to do so everyday. We need to be respectful of everyone. We all need equal access and treatment. That is all we are asking for! If people can block the dock for loading and unloading their stuff to go to the island, I just ask for the same access. (see photos) If commercial barges can come to the dock and do it for hire, I just ask for the same treatment and access. (see photos) Nothing more nothing less.
9. Lastly, to people who just openly don't want airplanes here, I'm not throwing this in your face at all, but the reality is that they are perfectly legal and there is nothing you can do about it. This is not a fight you will win. You do not own the lake, it's the state's property and seaplanes, just like your boat, have a right to come here. Again, this isn't a fight, it's a fact. It's a non arguable.
10. I ask for your support. Please email the selectman (selectmen@tuftonboro.org) to show support to allow us to lower the dock posts (see conceptual picture attached) and add cushioning to the dock at NO COST TO THE TAX PAYER. We will not alter the dock to change it's use in any way. In fact, we will improve it so that even more boaters can access it. Keep in mind that even if the dock posts don't get lowered that it will not prevent seaplanes from coming here. (see the photo of it there, notice the dock posts)
I'm sure some of you will have questions. I come on here in good faith. Please ask away! Nothing ugly. I accept hard questions. I just think this is a better forum than other forums where you can hide behind screen names.
Thank you all for your time.
T.R. Wood
Epic Seaplane Adventures
603-724-9104

Back with the same ole, same ole...

1. So it’s a business.. one that you want to make profitable. The only way to do that is is fly a lot of sightseeing passengers. At 3 pax per trip, you gotta do a lot! So, how much do you plan to do from the town docks?
2. You probably don’t know much of the history of the store owner and her fight with the slip owners. She has alienated many people in the bay already so she is not trusted by some. What’s in it for her? Who approached who? It’s disingenuous to suggest she has no vested interest but that doesn’t pass the smell test. We all know she is counting on your passengers in her store to increase traffic. And, to make it profitable she’ll expect a lot of passengers.
3. You keep comparing yourself to barges but just because you keep repeating it doesn’t make it so. Barges earn their money from someone’s property on the island not because the town dock. You on the other hand ...
4. Nobody, I think, cares about the FAA designation. They care because you plan to base your operation from it...just like Jetblue has it HQ in NY but “bases” it’s flights from Boston or Orlando. You’re being very sly in how you parse it but we all know what it is.
5. Stupid comment. International airport? Please...
6. There is no excuse for any threats ...period.
7. Those homeowners in 19 mile bay are the most affected by this venture. They have every right to oppose it as it directly affects their quality of life on the lake. To be tone deaf to that shows a troublesome attitude.
8 & 9. We can agree on our equal love of the lake.. Anyone who has been here any length of time knows seaplanes share the waterways with boaters. It’s part of lake life. But to rub noses in it by saying “there is nothing you can do about it” does nothing but strengthen the resolve of those opposed to you.
This is simply a case of a pair of business owners trying to use a public use dock for a floatplane sightseeing operation that has an impact on those who use the docks daily.

[Red apple]

Good luck Eric on the venture and if the block you for some reason I hope you spend every resource you have trying to shut down that “port” for barges and boats that are not using as they should also…


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[MAXUM]

Hi everyone. I want to clear the air about a lot of misinformation going around. I choose to do it here because on other forums people like to hide behind screen names and push false narratives. Please if anyone needs anything just call me up! Maybe I can take you for a ride!
1. I have started a small part time business called Epic Seaplane Adventures. I did this mostly because of the pandemic and needed a backup plan in case my real job went away. I have given so many rides in my plane people have always suggested that I charge for them, so I started the process of getting it running. I don't plan on interrupting my "lake life" but if you want an "air tour" I'm getting a website up and going. You could make a reservation and I can come to you if you have a private dock and I've been looking around for places (such as the Tuftonboro Town Dock) to be able to pick you up from. I can also do it from my place as well. So it's not specific, we just need to have the conversation, but can do it from anywhere really.
2. The woman who owns the Pier 19 Marketplace has been great! She is very enthusiastic about attracting business to her place. She and I put a proposal to the town to make the Public Dock Posts lower to allow, not just my plane, but any seaplane to approach safely without fear of hitting our tail on the dock. Also, we proposed adding some cushioning to the dock on the North Side. Doing this will then make the dock a more useful spot, not just for planes but for boats too. Contrary to the narrative being pushed this business will not be attached to Pier 19 Market Place. Just because she is helping promote it doesn't make it true. No one is going to set up shop on the dock, period end of story.
3. As you can imagine this has created a lot of buzz, especially for people who don't understand that seaplanes are legal here and allowed to land wherever it is safe. New Hampshire is not like other states and we are proud of that! I've heard everything from you can't block the fire boat to you can't use the dock for commercial purposes. Blocking the fireboat is not an issue because pilots can move the planes (they would never be left unattended and can be spun very quickly so their wing doesn't go over the dock see the photo) and commercial barges use the docks all the time for various reasons. Even the town puts a dumpster on the pier from time to time. (see photos of the town dock being blocked for commercial purposes and for private purposes as well)
4. There is a huge misconception that there is a seaplane "base" being developed in 19 Mile Bay. "Base" is a very scary word to the lay person. I can assure you it's only a specific FAA term. This was caused because the owner of Pier 19 Market Place, did what anyone can, (it's what I did with Mirror Lake and others have done such as Winter Harbor) and applied to the state and FAA (free of charge) to have 19 Mile Bay surveyed and registered as a Seaplane Landing Area. This does nothing more than allow 19 Mile Bay to be listed on an aviation chart and databases so that pilots can file flight plans to and from for safety reasons. So this outrage over a "base" is hyperbolic.
5. I invite anyone to get ahold of me to talk about this "business", more like a tax right off, that I can now charge people for taking rides! I can assure all of you that there is zero intention of making 19 Mile Bay an international airport. Let's all stop the panic now.
6. I have had some very disturbing ugly "threats" toward me. Some have stated that they will "block me" or any other planes from landing due to the right of way laws (because landing planes must technically give way to all vessels on the water). Some have come up with ideas of forming a blockade on the water or zig zagging in front of the landing plane to stop them. I want people to know that operating in a manner that jeopardizes safety intentionally to disrupt or harm someone is illegal and it's just not nice. If you have ever been over to Mirror Lake or know anyone over there, just come over and talk to us. They can tell you how much fun it is and how we all get along and operate safely.
7. There is a group of home owners on 19 Mile Bay that is forming an opposition to the idea of seaplanes coming in and out. Let's not name call them, but there is an acronym for this called NIMBY (stands for NOT IN MY BACKYARD). These folks are rallying support by spreading false information. If you run into them or are one of them feel free to get ahold of me to discuss this issue. I'm open to all comments. Each time I run into someone and discuss this issue with them the always walk away with a completely different idea of what they originally were told was happening. These people without the proper information are already talking about boycotting the Pier 19 Store! It's amazing how emotion and misinformation gets people upset. In this day and age of the internet people just look for reasons to be upset!
8. I grew up here and love this town. I'm a local guy. I can assure you that I'm not going to ruin anything or destroy what we all love. When I operate I do it with respect and love for this area and will continue to do so everyday. We need to be respectful of everyone. We all need equal access and treatment. That is all we are asking for! If people can block the dock for loading and unloading their stuff to go to the island, I just ask for the same access. (see photos) If commercial barges can come to the dock and do it for hire, I just ask for the same treatment and access. (see photos) Nothing more nothing less.
9. Lastly, to people who just openly don't want airplanes here, I'm not throwing this in your face at all, but the reality is that they are perfectly legal and there is nothing you can do about it. This is not a fight you will win. You do not own the lake, it's the state's property and seaplanes, just like your boat, have a right to come here. Again, this isn't a fight, it's a fact. It's a non arguable.
10. I ask for your support. Please email the selectman (selectmen@tuftonboro.org) to show support to allow us to lower the dock posts (see conceptual picture attached) and add cushioning to the dock at NO COST TO THE TAX PAYER. We will not alter the dock to change it's use in any way. In fact, we will improve it so that even more boaters can access it. Keep in mind that even if the dock posts don't get lowered that it will not prevent seaplanes from coming here. (see the photo of it there, notice the dock posts)
I'm sure some of you will have questions. I come on here in good faith. Please ask away! Nothing ugly. I accept hard questions. I just think this is a better forum than other forums where you can hide behind screen names.
Thank you all for your time.
T.R. Wood
Epic Seaplane Adventures
603-724-9104

I got no dog in this fight however I am empathetic to the plight of those who are directly affected by your proposed use of 19 mile bay. Sadly you do not appear to be.

1 - I have no problems with you establishing a small business, in fact I applaud anyone who does and is successful at it. So kudos to you for effort. Your execution is where the problem lies. Whether or not you are from the area, grew up in the area or have a self proclaimed love of the area does not take away from the fact you are operating a business that impacts an area where other citizens are impacted negatively. Their opposition to you operating in the area on a regular basis to me seems reasonable. While you and many others may not relate to their concerns to disregard them as some how misguided or full of misinformation is simply wrong and quite sad.

2- The woman who owns the pier 19 store is quickly gaining a reputation as being unreasonable and hostile, especially towards the pier 19 slip owners. This has resulted in altercations which have included calls to the police, damage done to association assets and a failure to follow or even acknowledge bylaws set forth by the very association the store is legally tied to. This likely will result in a court battle. Being associated with a business operator like this does not give you a very good public perception.

3 - Just because NH is a sea plane friendly place does not mean it is appropriate to just land wherever and disturb whoever just because you "can". That sort of attitude is not gaining you any favor with those that oppose your business venture, much like the pier 19 store owner, being at odds with others is one thing, to flaunt it as "I have the legal right to do so" is just going to further enrage the opposition and create more problems for you. It's amazing you don't see this. However roll the dice as one thing you may find out, property owners, especially lake front owners may themselves be lawyers, or fellow pilots, and have lots of connections that if leveraged could create a whole lot of expensive litigation for you - enough to sink your business.

4 - I do agree the term sea plane base seems to infer something a bit more substantial than what you are proposing, seems that some education is needed there for those who stand in opposition.

5 - the reason or business model you are engaging in is basically irrelevant. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting you are creating an international airport!

6 - There is no need for and I certainly do not condone threats of any kind. However if boaters do choose to stack the docks with boats, park or hang out in a proposed landing area that too is their right to do so - to suggest otherwise is in your words preventing equal access and discriminatory.

7 - I refer back to the aforementioned, if there are those who are directly impacted by this looking to stand in solidarity against your proposal that is their right to do so. It is up to you to figure out a way to ease their concerns or face an uphill battle with folks that again are likely to create a whole lot of problems for you. They have every right to also not to patronize the pier 19 store and likely have good reason to beyond operating your business. Nobody is obligated to use it.

8 - Again you are asking for more than equal access - you are asking for the pier to be modified especially for YOU. No other users of the pier give a damn how long the posts are.

9 - Your tone here is classic, "I'm not throwing this in your face...." but you are. In a matter of fact I don't care attitude. This is not winning you any further support, instead it is turning more folks against your idea. If you don't think this can be stopped, better think again. No rafting and no wake zones at one point didn't exist either and do now. No landing zones I can see coming if you're not careful here.

10 - after all that you are looking for support, well I can tell you support will come once you start spending your energy on finding ways to work with those that stand in opposition and not by further enraging them by saying I'm doing this and there isn't anything you can do about it. You may just find with enough people on board and money behind it, something can and will be done about it.

This goes beyond altering the dock and has everything to do with creating yet another major disturbance in the general area on a regular basis. Understand that your passion for flying may not be shared with others. Just as my passion for shooting is not shared by others and as such the noise I create I am very much aware of and thus try to find places where it will not disturb others even though legally I could shoot right in my back yard so long as I am 300 feet away from an occupied residence. Just because I can and well within my legal rights to do so on my OWN property doesn't mean I do. Having a little common courtesy will go a long way as I see the nay sayers growing in numbers and volume.

Good luck in your endeavors.

[Sundancer320]

I spent a lot of time working around seaplanes in Canada. Loading, unloading, fueling, moving and assisting passengers on and off. It was a regular event when someone slips and falls off the dock or floatplane. Some were hurt seriously enough to go see the Dr. so, how much insurance does the town have? How much does Epic have? I think the liability here is too high.

[CowTimes]

Good luck Eric on the venture and if the block you for some reason I hope you spend every resource you have trying to shut down that “port” for barges and boats that are not using as they should also…


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The problem, of course, is that the barges have been using the wharf for decades and such use is expressly permitted by town ordinance. That, of course, makes perfect sense, because without public access for barges, the Tuftonboro islands could never have been developed and would not be able to be maintained. The development of Tuftonboro islands has provided the town with millions of dollars of tax revenues over the years. That will not change. Try another argument.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

The problem, of course, is that the barges have been using the wharf for decades and such use is expressly permitted by town ordinance. That, of course, makes perfect sense, because without public access for barges, the Tuftonboro islands could never have been developed and would not be able to be maintained. The development of Tuftonboro islands has provided the town with millions of dollars of tax revenues over the years. That will not change. Try another argument.Yes of course! The town ordinance finally permitted the development of the islands! That's it! Because prior to March 9th, 1988, The islands were undeveloped and uninhabited. (Insert sarcasm here. Still hiding behind Cowtimes).

You pushing this point only negates your point. Prior to the town ordinance they were able to use many other places as well. Not until people, not unlike yourself, complained enough about the barges that they made this ordinance. But nice try.

The poor barge companies have been under attack for decades and now you are boxing them in even further. Now your argument may eliminate their usage of the warf as well. You do realize your heading down that road. I hope you don't push the no commercial usage argument in public.
17038

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[DEJ]

You said post #279 was your last post, I guess not! :rolleye2:

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

You said post #279 was your last post, I guess not! :rolleye2:I guess I can't let false points stand in a vacuum... Because after all, those who speak to me directly and find out the information get called "mouthpiece"...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[DEJ]

You crack me up.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

You crack me up.I'm sure if we sat down and had a couple of beers we could end up friends and you would have a changed mind.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[DEJ]

I'm sure if we sat down and had a couple of beers we could end up friends and you would have a changed mind.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Friends perhaps, still would oppose you using the wharf as one of your bases for your sight seeing flights. Do it from your own private dock or the store owners private dock.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Friends perhaps, still would oppose you using the wharf as one of your bases for your sight seeing flights. Do it from your own private dock or the store owners private dock.Now the narrative changes to "one of my bases"... And people say I change my story.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[winni83]

Epic sounds like a classic snake oil salesman.

[DEJ]

Now the narrative changes to "one of my bases"... And people say I change my story.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

You have said you give flights from your dock and would do so from pier 19. No changing of story here. Stop fishing to try and start an argument, you have much steeper obstacles than me in front of you. This will be my last post and I know how to keep a promise unlike yourself.

[CowTimes]

Yes of course! The town ordinance finally permitted the development of the islands! That's it! Because prior to March 9th, 1988, The islands were undeveloped and uninhabited. (Insert sarcasm here. Still hiding behind Cowtimes).

You pushing this point only negates your point. Prior to the town ordinance they were able to use many other places as well. Not until people, not unlike yourself, complained enough about the barges that they made this ordinance. But nice try.

The poor barge companies have been under attack for decades and now you are boxing them in even further. Now your argument may eliminate their usage of the warf as well. You do realize your heading down that road. I hope you don't push the no commercial usage argument in public.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Epic, you should really get your facts straight before making arguments on the history of Union Wharf and barge use. Did I say the islands were first developed starting in 1988? Yes, the current ordinance was enacted in 1988. But before that, barges were permitted by ordinance to occupy the wharf for up to 4 hours, and before that there was no limitation for barge use. And now, for over 30 years, they have been allowed to use it up to an hour. Barges have always used the wharf since it was built. I can give you more of the history at a town meeting on this issue if this is where you want to base your argument. But please, base your argument on facts and actual history instead of unsupported hyperbolic and sarcastic statements.

Your statement that “barge companies have been under attack for decades” has no basis in fact. My family has been on the islands and involved in the town on issues surrounding the lake and islands for decades, and I have never heard any uproar over barge use of the wharf. The suggestion that a debate over the use of the wharf in a residential zoning area for commercial seaplane use (which has virtually no benefit and only downsides for the town and its residents) could lead to restricting the use of the wharf for barges in a reversal of decades of practice—which benefits hundreds of town residents—is nonsensical.

The only reason barge use is even part of this discussion is because you raised them as a very poor strawman—unaware that their use of the wharf was expressly permitted by town ordinance—to argue that you are entitled to use the wharf for the base of your commercial operation. You simply are not.

Your entire approach in refusing to address direct questions, constantly changing your story, and sarcastic responses (not to mention the poorly conceived publicity stunt on a seaplane ambulance) does nothing for your cause, and only serves to increase your opposition. If you really want to see what mobilized opposition looks like, continue to try to (falsely) frame this as a debate over continued use of the wharf for island residents with barge needs. You will see how full the town house can get with island residents.

The actual issue here is your attempt to use public property for the base of a commercial enterprise. You may not have wanted to hear it, but the selectmen pretty much already told you it wasn’t going to happen.

[Sundancer320]

His entire approach and argument has been nothing but throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Unfortunately, it’s ricocheted back pretty spectacularly.

[Closetzguy]

Lets see:
Existing business volume, less the dock owners she has alienated, less 19 mile bay neighbors that will never enter her store because of sea plane issue, plus the 5 or so seaplanes that may land to by an ice cream each year, should result in much less revenue per year. Am i missing something here?

I hope she survives because I do like her chicken!

[knowit]

She has a lot of money and obviously can afford to keep injecting capitol into a business that does not make any money. When she runs out of money and closes her doors in a year or so we can only hope Skelly's buys it at fire sale pricing and opens up there. Now that would be Epic!!!

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

She has a lot of money and obviously can afford to keep injecting capitol into a business that does not make any money. When she runs out of money and closes her doors in a year or so we can only hope Skelly's buys it at fire sale pricing and opens up there. Now that would be Epic!!!Now there are accusations that the store is funding me. The conversation on Facebook is much more civil. Feel free to join us.

It's funny what people will say when they hide behind a screen name.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

Way to turn my words! You are quite the slickster Epic. We know she’s not funding you.
But it is even funnier what some people feel they are entitled to just because she sunk all her money into a business that can never make a ROI.

[Sundancer320]

Now there are accusations that the store is funding me. The conversation on Facebook is much more civil. Feel free to join us.

It's funny what people will say when they hide behind a screen name.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Nobody has ever said that. She is trying to use you however... and you, going for the ride thinking you might make a few bucks...

[TheTimeTraveler]

No matter who or whom says what; This is not a Non Profit proposal. Neither is it a Charity proposal.

This is purely a "FOR PROFIT" plan, plain and simple.

Now the question is who benefits by this? The Store Owner (will they be selling plane ride tickets)? The Airplane Operator? Well, you can be sure he won't be flying the plane at no charge.....

Should the public have a say in who gets what? Some say yes; others will say it's none of our business. It will be interesting to watch this debate play out.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

Way to garner support!

[Sundancer320]

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So you’re threatening people now? With what? Arrest for asking you questions on a public forum? This is a puzzling comment and I have to assume you have been enjoying some adult beverages. This entire thread has been civil and has shown many citizens concerns with this proposal.

[Mink Islander]

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Add me to the list of agitators. And I have reported you to the appropriate authority - the webmaster. Here’s hoping he’ll provide the requisite “enforcement”. No one wants to read crap like this from epic jerks like you. Go pee in someone else’s pool….

[Force5]

I thought exactly the same thing! Adult beverages or something else. Absurd to say the least. He is getting crazier and crazier

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Really, you want me to post all the threats and emails between yourselves? I'm not going to do that ... I'll let the authorities handle it.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

I don’t recall ever reading a post that you were threatened. If you are getting personal threats to your email, that is just wrong and I for one do not condone that type of behavior.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

I don’t recall ever reading a post that you were threatened. If you are getting personal threats to your email, that is just wrong and I for one do not condone that type of behavior.Ok, thanks. Just make sure you didn't put your name on the "list" and you're all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[MAXUM]

If the FAA receives information from another source that a pilot may have a mental health issue, the FAA's Office of Aerospace Medicine can direct the pilot to provide specific documentation and/or a psychiatric and psychological evaluation from a mental health care professional in order to make a determination about the pilot's suitability for certification.

I believe this thread is exhibit A.

Good luck with putting me on your "list" I am in the witness protection program.

[knowit]

List of what? You need to be more specific. Call out the offenders. Lump everyone together is not fair.

[Sundancer320]

Really, you want me to post all the threats and emails between yourselves? I'm not going to do that ... I'll let the authorities handle it.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

If you’re getting threats from some other forum then this place is the wrong avenue. If you are getting threats in the form of a PM here then you handle it by going to the moderators and or LE... by painting a broad brush here with no proof or names, I take it as harassment from you and believe the moderators should delete these posts. What exactly is this list you talk of? If it’s a list of citizens who are organizing a lawful petition against you’re proposal then you are seriously the one who should be careful. Threats and intimidation should not be taken lightly. Be assured the selectman, you know, the ones who decide... may be reading these comments.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

If the FAA receives information from another source that a pilot may have a mental health issue, the FAA's Office of Aerospace Medicine can direct the pilot to provide specific documentation and/or a psychiatric and psychological evaluation from a mental health care professional in order to make a determination about the pilot's suitability for certification.

I believe this thread is exhibit A.

Good luck with putting me on your "list" I am in the witness protection program.That's brilliant! I swear, you people never expect people to fight back. You just expect that if you make enough noise that good people will just give up. Good luck with that...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[MAXUM]

That's brilliant! I swear, you people never expect people to fight back. You just expect that if you make enough noise that good people will just give up. Good luck with that...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Lighten up! And yes what I wrote is brilliantly sarcastic! ;)

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Lighten up! And yes what I wrote is brilliantly sarcastic! ;)Now he says lighten up! Right! I'm the one that's uptight, yep you got it. Nailed it!

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[winni83]

So after a thread with 300 plus posts, I have to report that I am extremely accurate with all my details and predictions. People opposing this should be smarter than they have been. Any of you that have gotten on board with the agitators let it be known that you have provided your names and phone numbers to law enforcement and have put yourselves in a position that you cannot get out of. The ball is in your court. I hope that all of you make smart decisions. It is unfortunate that you all have decided to hide behind your screen names and not have a civil discussion. It is ironic that those individuals state that we are not being smart. We have done nothing but follow the rules. The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved. For those of you who decide to oppose lawfully and civilly I encourage you to make your arguments and wish you the best.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Just the kind of calm level headed person I’d want as a pilot!!

My lawyer and I hope that I am on your “enemies list”. Do the terms malicious prosecution and abuse of process ring a bell?

[Force5]

Quick someone with a printer, please print this out before evidence is taken down. Great evidence for the selectmen, showing Epic making threats.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Quick someone with a printer, please print this out before evidence is taken down. Great evidence for the selectmen, showing Epic making threats.Exactly what threat am I making? Please articulate the threat?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Just the kind of calm level headed person I’d want as a pilot!!

My lawyer and I hope that I am on your “enemies list”. Do the terms malicious prosecution and abuse of process ring a bell?So you are saying you want a pilot who shrivels up and runs away when adversity hits? Got it. You should stick to not flying.

The list is not my list, it's your list, and you all have voluntarily add your names to it.

It has nothing to do with me at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Sundancer320]

Somebody need to take his shovel away from him.

[winni83]

"The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved“

Sounds like your list to me. But of course it has nothing to do with you at all..

Let him keep his shovel. It is very helpful.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

‘’ The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved“

Sounds like your list to me. But of course it has nothing to do with you at all..

Let him keep his shovel. It is very helpful.If you're in the dark and don't have a clue then chances are your all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[knowit]

So Epic, since you say you want to be as transparent and open about your intentions, why is it you have made no reference to your demonstration that you are doing with the Tuftonboro selectmen on Monday? That would be a great time to address some people’s concerns wouldn’t it?

[CowTimes]

Ok, thanks. Just make sure you didn't put your name on the "list" and you're all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So a list of folks that organized to oppose your unlawful use of the wharf for commercial use is somehow evidence of a crime that needs to be reported to authorities? Got it. I’m sure those unnamed “authorities” were so overwhelmed with your evidence of crimes that they actually wanted you to start conducting citizens arrests of folks that—gasp—are exercising their constitutional right to organize and express their opposition?

I’m also very confused. For days you have been berating people to give you their names, and now you have names of many that are opposed to your plan, and the first thing you do is call the “authorities”?

Oh my, I’m so glad my name wasn’t on that list. Or was it?

[The Real BigGuy]

If I’m on your “list” I’m damned proud of it!


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[winni83]

If you are on Facebook, search for “T R Wood SDNELLC” and also that name in the Seaplane Pilots' Association FB page. I surmise that SDNELLC refers to Self Defense of New England, LLC, a company formed by Thomas Wood with an address on Mirror Lake.

Will the karate kid do a demonstration of his non piloting skills?

[Sundancer320]

So, it’s a plane washing and waxing demonstration....Wax on, Wax off...sounds fun.

[knowit]

Interesting that he has not told us about this demonstration on any of the media forums. I think that anyone that can be there, should be present for that.
Could be very informational.

[Sundancer320]

So you are saying you want a pilot who shrivels up and runs away when adversity hits? Got it. You should stick to not flying.

The list is not my list, it's your list, and you all have voluntarily add your names to it.

It has nothing to do with me at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures


“You all have voluntarily”. You need to retract this comment.

[ITD]

What a fricken dumpster fire this thread is, you all need to shut your computers off and enjoy the good weather that is coming.

I think this thread needs a time out.

[LIforrelaxin]

What a fricken dumpster fire this thread is, you all need to shut your computers off and enjoy the good weather that is coming.

I think this thread needs a time out.

I whole heatedly agree..... I hate to see threads get locked, but well we may be at that point...

[Descant]

I whole heatedly agree..... I hate to see threads get locked, but well we may be at that point...

Look at the numbers. 333 posts, mostly by a very small number of people, but 19300+ readers. That's a lot of interest--like a crowd watching a guy on a ledge, and yelling "Jump!, Jump!" Everybody thinks something is going to happen. Don't hold your breath.
I think these guys just enjoy the fight, don't really care about the outcome. It's like our old town meetings (in person-remember those?) when a few people would have a few drinks ahead of time and then argue about everything with the guys they'd been drinking with earlier. Everybody else snickering behind their sleeve because, well, "That's just Tom, Dick, and Harry being Tom, Dick, and Harry, again."
All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

[owenoutdoors]

All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

rough day?

[FlyingScot]

Look at the numbers. 333 posts, mostly by a very small number of people, but 19300+ readers. That's a lot of interest--like a crowd watching a guy on a ledge, and yelling "Jump!, Jump!" Everybody thinks something is going to happen. Don't hold your breath.
I think these guys just enjoy the fight, don't really care about the outcome. It's like our old town meetings (in person-remember those?) when a few people would have a few drinks ahead of time and then argue about everything with the guys they'd been drinking with earlier. Everybody else snickering behind their sleeve because, well, "That's just Tom, Dick, and Harry being Tom, Dick, and Harry, again."
All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

I don't think this is accurate or fair. At a minimum, you paint with too broad a brush. 5 or 10 people have raised legitimate questions on private use of public property and potential impact on the area. If you think certain posters have been inappropriate, you should quote their posts instead of disparaging a group with speculation.

I'm very grateful to a number of the posters for highlighting certain issues that I did not appreciate on an important topic.

[MAXUM]

What I really don't understand here is why is the store owner, NOT Epic, is trying to secure an Airport Site Certificate when this is really not necessary based on what Epic is claiming will be happening in 19 Mile Bay? Why go through this hassle when even Epic has stated and I believe it is accurate he can land wherever he wants. I believe there is more to this and the intent of the store owner is being understated where this not just having Epic running a sight seeing tour or two. Otherwise there would be no reason to go through this process.

Why is Epic doing the dirty work on this - he already has mirror lake to operate off of, 19 mile is a hassle as he would have to take off and land more than is really necessary versus running this out of his place UNLESS the issue here is that he either got caught (neighbor complaints) or knows zoning restrictions would prohibit running a business out of a residential area.

Interestingly enough this certificate as it exists today means nothing other than based on the information submitted meets DOT requirements for a runway and nothing more. It is subject to scrutiny and review and must meet all local ordinances, and local, state and federal law. This is more than a runway and as such the applicant must demonstrate this prior to use. This is why the area developed for the "airport" including specifically the areas to board\unboard the planes is subject to inspection by the BOA. This is why modifications to the town pier is so critical to this plan as the only other option the store owner has is to extend the gas dock which is already a known no go as DES will not allow it.

At face value what I see here is a bait and switch Epic could right now occasionally fly in and out of 19 mile and be fine doing so in fact has. The piers can be worked around as needed for this use. However the situation changes if the desire is to do much more than just that and clearly that is the intention otherwise filing this makes no sense at all and far to elaborate. Furthermore if this was Epic's show he would file it not the store owner yet Epic is the mouthpiece for this the store owner is silent. Odd isn't it?

One final thought, this store owner already has an established reputation of doing what she wants. That is a troubling thought considering the toxic relationship that she has already established with the association she belongs to, yet has openly cried ignorance or discrimination when openly defying the obligations she is bound to with the Pier19 slip owners. Based on that history the town should be very careful in doing anything to enable this person to further exploit any resource that is town property.

Frankly I think many are distracted by Epic and his antics - dig deeper and look beyond that nonsense as it is meaningless. Watch closely what the store owner is doing - that is where everyone needs to remain vigilant. Hopefully the selectmen shoot this proposal down as it would for now nullify any possibility that airport site could be approved for use. The bad part is the store owner has 10 years on that to try to get sufficient logistics in place to satisfy the BOA and thus end up with an approval to operate so even if round one is lost, it won't be the last time this comes up. IF that approval happens it is anyone's guess what that area will turn into.

Something really stinks here.

[Force5]

Maxum,
I agree with absolutely everything you said. Yes, we need to focus of the real intent of the store owner. Everything you said is relevant and makes perfect logic and sense. The whole thing is very deceptive. Seems like if they cant get the town to cut the posts down that may shut the whole project down. The town won't let them run the business from the public dock, I am pretty sure of that. She will try to get a permit for her dock to extend, but we need to think beyond that and let the selectmen hold a public meeting to address creating an ordinance for no seaplane base.

[The Real BigGuy]

Maxum,

Great post! I honestly hadn’t thought of this from the point of view you brought up but, it makes perfect sense. Why make a flight of just over a mile to pick up passengers @ Pier 19 instead of doing it out of an already established & approved seaplane base? Why is ESA taking the heat on the forum when it is the store owner who has filed for the 19 Mile Bay landing area? Something is fishy.

She has 10 years to finalize everything but with the number of people she has alienated (including the 55 boat owners of the association - who should be her best customers) will she last 10 years bleeding $?


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[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Sundancer320]

https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ

Epic Seaplane Adventures


Instead of making an intelligent rebuttal you come up with this. Lame.

[Sundancer320]

I said it early on... the store owner wants traffic in her store.. she is using Epic to make the pitch for her because he seemed more credible and articulate than she is. After reading this thread it appears that is not the case.

[CowTimes]

It is unfortunate that there can only be speculation because neither of the proponents are forthcoming to the town or its residents.

My theory has always been that Epic is looking to see if a seaplane tour business would have enough demand to turn into a full-time business (at least for part of the year). He already has the plane, so the main infrastructure need is a commercial base. And if you’re trying to start a business and save money, cheap or free is always best (recall he said this business was a “plan B” for his day job). So the town dock was the perfect target. He can’t run a commercial operation from his place on Mirror Lake because that is zoned residential, and, of course, he would upset his own neighbors coming in and out all the time (curious how that is itself a “NIMBY”). And since this is just the beginning of a business plan of testing for demand, he can say that he still has his day job, this would only be intermittent, and all the other ambiguous statements instead of providing actual details.

My assumption is that the store owners serve three purposes. First, there needs to be an “operator” to call for the runway that (for some reason I don’t understand) appears to be needed for the commercial operation. This presumably needs to be someone that owns property by the runway, so Epic needed the store for the runway. Second, this needs to be run at a commercially zoned area, and the store seemed to check that box (except that isn’t the case, since the store is in a residential area, and the variance/planning board approval doesn’t include a seaplane base / tour business). And third, the store has plenty of parking that isn’t used.

While I am sure the store would like traffic, I doubt anyone thinks seaplanes literally flying in from all over to get an ice cream cone are going to be a real driver of revenue for the store. But a cut of the ticket price (tickets are probably a hundred or more bucks a head?) for not needing to do any work seems to be a no-brainer for the store, particularly when the store has already alienated its neighbors and the boat slip owners.

[Force5]

I have attached the permit submitted to town. Note the dates of April 2 and April 5. The second page paragraph 2 (starred) states the form 7480-1 must be submitted to the town's BOA, once the form is submitted the FAA will conduct a review. Can anyone clarify this? Has it been submitted to the BOA? If not it sounds like the cart before the horse. Why would the DOT submit a permit when the FAA has not conducted a review. What does that review entail? I am hoping the BOA will announce when the FAA will conduct a review(if and when).
I also thought if would be helpful for everyone to print and have the information handy when the town holds a public meeting.

[winni83]

I think the term BOA in that approval refers to the State Department of Transportation Bureau Of Aeronautics.. You may be thinking of BOA as the Board of Aldermen. As a town Tuftonboro does not have Alderman. It has a Board of Selectmen (BOS).

Good information in that attachment. Thanks.

[Force5]

Thank you thought it was Board of Adjustment.

[CowTimes]

For anyone that is still interested in this issue, the town’s board of selectmen discussed several aspects of this at their June 7 meeting. While the selectmen declined to put the issue on their agenda, during the public input portions at the beginning and the end of the meeting, various members of the public raised concerns and there was some interesting discussion. Below is the link to the recording of the meeting. While there was some discussion of the issue at the beginning, if limited in time, the few minutes I would suggest watching begin towards the end at 2:16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9MWIeeWH8

A few observations. First, the selectmen made clear that nothing is going to happen with respect to the wharf pilings until after the refurbishment of the wharf, and the refurbishment will not be done until next year at the earliest (if interested in the wharf refurbishment project, there was an extensive discussion in the middle of the meeting with the town’s consultant on the status of that project).

Second, the selectmen also made clear that there is no appetite for allowing Epic to use the wharf for a commercial enterprise, at least not without a public bid process (i.e., Epic would have to pay the town and address things like liability issues).

And third, as for just private use of the wharf for seaplanes by cutting posts, the selectmen reaffirmed what they said in prior meetings that the first “baby step” in that process is for there to be a demonstration at a selectmen’s meeting (i.e., on the publicly posted agenda for a meeting that will be partly held at the wharf) where the selectmen, the fire chief, and the police chief, together with any member of the public that wants to attend, will be able to observe the demonstration.

The selectmen clearly understand what is going on here, and are attuned to the issues that have been raised and discussed here. The selectmen stated that there will be a full public hearing dedicated to this issue before anything happens on the wharf. Based on their comments, it seems likely that any public hearing would not even occur until after the wharf refurbishment, so at least another year or two.

What I also found most interesting—in light of Epic’s professed openness for the process and that he has nothing to hide—was the chairman’s discussion (at 2:17) of how Epic had requested from the selectmen that the fly-in demonstration be closed and not disclosed to the public in advance, which the chairman noted is not how the town approaches such things.

[knowit]

Very good news from the selectmen!

[MAXUM]

Well just remember the store owner has 10 years to get something done over there so even if the first try fails you can bet it won't be the last.

You can also bet that the store owner is probably trying the same rope a dope on DES to get the gas dock extended although I have to believe that is never going to happen.

The deception going on here is a warning sign both are willing to do anything to get what they want. These people are the reason why so much regulation exists cause they live to exploit every possible loop hole the can find and if that doesn't work lawyer up and start petty litigation and cry discrimination.

Nice to see the Selectmen are paying attention.

[knowit]

True, she is very underhanded. She has shown that. The good news is there is no way that store will be open in ten years. I give them three more years of bleeding cash and it will be for sale.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Wow! Thanks for pointing this out. I had no idea that this discussion happened at the end.

Again, I feel as though people keep pounding the mantra of a "commercial operation" on the warf. I do not know how many times I need to say this... I'm not requesting a dedicated space at the warf! I said that at about minute 10 of the video, but then it was brought up again at the end and still people are insisting on discussing this. All I have to keep saying is that people are misinformed. It is wrong to say that I am requesting a space to operate from.

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF. Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

As far as the public demo I feel the Chairman was very direct and told the author of the email directly to his face, "...to grow up.". I thought that was harsher than I put it at the beginning but it was certainly appropriate. THE REASON THE DEMO WAS CANCELLED WAS THE POLICE CHIEF AND I DECIDED THAT THE THREATS WERE CREDIBLE. The comments that in 100 years there hasn't been commercial operations at the pier are completely false. Barges have been going there forever. Please let me know if what I am saying is false.

As far as the selectman speaking about a need for a public demo, it seems as though we need to get our story straight. They say the Fire Chief and Police Chief want the demo, but when I asked the Fire Chief and Police Chief if they want one they told me no that it wasn't necessary. So someone needs to get aligned. Perhaps the selectmen just want a demo but that is not what they said. THERE IS NO ONE HIDING ANYTHING.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Tyler]

Please let me know if what I am saying is false. Epic Seaplane Adventures

What you are saying is false. The barges do not advertise that they will pick you or your stuff up from the pier 19 wharf. You and or the store owner on the other hand will be advertising seaplane scenic rides from pier 19 wharf for a fee, in other words a private business operating from town property. I do not understand why you do not get that?

[FlyingScot]

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF. Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.



You leave the dock on a Saturday afternoon in July for a one hour tour. You return to the dock one hour later to drop your first passengers and pick up for your second tour. But by now there are boats where your plane was, and other boats waiting to come ashore. What do you do?

[CowTimes]

It is wrong to say that I am requesting a space to operate from.

…

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

If that is not operation from the wharf, I don’t know what is. The same could be said about any airport gate—“just picking up and dropping off”. The store is not going to get a cut of the ticket price for letting your customers park there? What’s in it for the store that they keep going to every meeting on this? Between needing parking there, picking up passengers there, giving safety briefings there, and dropping passengers off there, that is operation from the wharf. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, by god, it’s probably a duck.

[CowTimes]

Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

And for the love of all things holy, please find another strawman. The barges are a necessity for hundreds of town residents on the islands. You are only seeking to use the wharf for commercial use for your personal financial gain. No general benefit to the town AT ALL. That is why barge use up to an hour is expressly permitted by ordinance.

You really do need to find another drum to bang if you think you have a chance to persuade the town that you should be permitted to use the town wharf to run a sightseeing business.

[TomF]

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


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[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAll day...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[FlyingScot]

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


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Of course! Why not? And a commercial pilot could do the same. I hope they all enjoy ice cream together at the store :)

But you'll notice that ESA did not answer my question of a day or two ago. Can a pilot of a plane (or a boat) reserve a spot in advance on the dock to pick up his friend? No :(

[thinkxingu]

Ummm...no. Every public dock on the lake has time limits.

Here you go: https://www.tuftonboro.org/administration/files/docking-and-parking-ordinance-adopted-7218

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[CowTimes]

All day...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Not accurate. There is a 4-hour docking limit by ordinance for “watercraft” at Union Wharf. That is all setting aside whether a seaplane is considered a “boat” for purposes of the town ordinance. While a seaplane may be considered a watercraft or boat for purposes of state or federal laws and regulations, that does not mean that a seaplane is considered a boat or watercraft for purposes of the town ordinance, which is silent on the issue. So, at best, the answer is that no seaplane could dock at Union Wharf for more than 4 hours, and it is a bit uncertain whether seaplanes were intended to be permitted to dock at Union Wharf at all as the ordinance is currently written.

Also, Epic, from your first post on the forum:



The concerns about blocking the dock for Fire and EMS were very legitimate. However, after further investigation and discussion the concerns were addressed. An aircraft at the dock would never be left unattended and could be moved at a moment’s notice…

So which is it, Epic? Is it your position that seaplanes can be left unattended on the wharf for hours, blocking access to the fire boat, or not?

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Not accurate. There is a 4-hour docking limit by ordinance for “watercraft” at Union Wharf. That is all setting aside whether a seaplane is considered a “boat” for purposes of the town ordinance. While a seaplane may be considered a watercraft or boat for purposes of state or federal laws and regulations, that does not mean that a seaplane is considered a boat or watercraft for purposes of the town ordinance, which is silent on the issue. So, at best, the answer is that no seaplane could dock at Union Wharf for more than 4 hours, and it is a bit uncertain whether seaplanes were intended to be permitted to dock at Union Wharf at all as the ordinance is currently written.

Also, Epic, from your first post on the forum:



So which is it, Epic? Is it your position that seaplanes can be left unattended on the wharf for hours, blocking access to the fire boat, or not?Fair point. I wouldn't leave my plane sitting there unattended. If there is a 4 hr limit then it's a 4 hr limit. Not all day.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Pricestavern]

I've been watching the goings on of this thread for a while now, not having an opinion one way or the other. That is until the threat of providing names to the authorities of those on 'the list' that oppose the seaplane base.

I now have an opinion. How do I get on that list? Put me down. Sign me up. Put me on the Group W bench.

Name: Richard Price

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

I've been watching the goings on of this thread for a while now, not having an opinion one way or the other. That is until the threat of providing names to the authorities of those on 'the list' that oppose the seaplane base.

I now have an opinion. How do I get on that list? Put me down. Sign me up. Put me on the Group W bench.

Name: Richard PriceThanks Richard,

That is not what happened at all. An email went out. The person who wrote it wasn't very smart and made threats of interfering withe the lawful operation of an aircraft. There was a Google doc also attached to this email where people could go and sign up to support this illegal activity.

The threats were credible and very real. Real enough for the authorities to feel the demonstration be called off.

This email, that went out to many people, is with the authorities as evidence of threats against the lawful operation of an aircraft.

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

These people made threats and put their own names voluntarily on this list.

Like many on this page you assumed and were incorrect in your assumptions.

There is a distinct difference.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

To quote the Chairman of the Selectmen,. "Quite frankly people just need to grow up!"

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

Thanks Richard,

That is not what happened at all. An email went out. The person who wrote it wasn't very smart and made threats of interfering withe the lawful operation of an aircraft. There was a Google doc also attached to this email where people could go and sign up to support this illegal activity.

The threats were credible and very real. Real enough for the authorities to feel the demonstration be called off.

This email, that went out to many people, is with the authorities as evidence of threats against the lawful operation of an aircraft.

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

These people made threats and put their own names voluntarily on this list.

Like many on this page you assumed and were incorrect in your assumptions.

There is a distinct difference.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

This is wildly inaccurate and a complete exaggeration to attempt to divert attention from the actual issues here. If a SINGLE individual made a comment about “interfering” with an aircraft, that is attributable to that person and only that person. I don’t think anyone in this community condones that, and in all reality, it was most likely someone blowing off steam with no actual intent to do such things, but regardless, that should never have happened. (And unless there was an actual investigation beyond reading the email, there is nothing to support the concept that it was a “credible” threat. In fact, you mentioned that the authority was the town police chief, which if I recall correctly does not even have jurisdiction on the lake, so I don’t buy the story to begin with. And just so you know, if, as appears to be the case, you were never the intended recipient of the email, it is not a criminal threat to begin with. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it’s not criminal.)

There was no list to sign up to do a mass blockade. Emails went around to community members with a google doc excel to (I) sign up for a listserv so that folks that oppose the seaplane base could keep updated among themselves, and (ii) keep track of who reached out to the selectmen in opposition. If a SINGLE person on that listserv sent around an email, that is attributable only to that person. So stop putting an entire community into a “they” category when at most this was ONE person who likely made some stupid comments in an email in the heat of the moment.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

This is wildly inaccurate and a complete exaggeration to attempt to divert attention from the actual issues here. If a SINGLE individual made a comment about “interfering” with an aircraft, that is attributable to that person and only that person. I don’t think anyone in this community condones that, and in all reality, it was most likely someone blowing off steam with no actual intent to do such things, but regardless, that should never have happened. (And unless there was an actual investigation beyond reading the email, there is nothing to support the concept that it was a “credible” threat. In fact, you mentioned that the authority was the town police chief, which if I recall correctly does not even have jurisdiction on the lake, so I don’t buy the story to begin with. And just so you know, if, as appears to be the case, you were never the intended recipient of the email, it is not a criminal threat to begin with. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it’s not criminal.)

There was no list to sign up to do a mass blockade. Emails went around to community members with a google doc excel to (I) sign up for a listserv so that folks that oppose the seaplane base could keep updated among themselves, and (ii) keep track of who reached out to the selectmen in opposition. If a SINGLE person on that listserv sent around an email, that is attributable only to that person. So stop putting an entire community into a “they” category when at most this was ONE person who likely made some stupid comments in an email in the heat of the moment.Who is being "wildy inaccurate" now?

Thanks for acknowledging that I didn't make the list.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

Who is being "wildy inaccurate" now?

Thanks for acknowledging that I didn't make the list.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Please explain—with facts and not conclusory statements—what is inaccurate in my immediately prior post.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Please explain—with facts and not conclusory statements—what is inaccurate in my immediately prior post.No offense, but I do not have time all day to spar with you. You are the one who claims, I'm lying, and I'm making stuff up. You are one of the people that is on this list by your own omission. You have done nothing but spread misinformation about me and the only reason why I respond is so that you don't exist in a vacuum.

I will not tolerate people threatening me. It's not just an airplane, it has people inside who have children and lives. You do not get or deserve the time. I will not be threatened.

This town is amazing and a wonderful place and unfortunately there are a few bad, emotional, people, as described as agitators who are activists, who attempt to hide behind a twisted logic, instead of just being honest and stating, "I just don't want and airplane here", these people are the type of people who would lay down in the middle of the highway and block traffic for their cause. Everyone sees this, everyone knows, this is a very small town.

I am done with Cowtimes...

Unless you are brave enough to call me on the phone and have a civil discussion... If not... Please do what the Selectman said and, "Grow Up!".

Epic Seaplane Adventures

[CowTimes]

No offense (as you say), but you are a bold faced liar if you are suggesting that there was a broad, coordinated “threat.” As far as I know (and I’ve seen the emails and the “list”), this was nothing more than a single, unsubstantiated “threat” from a single person about boating in the bay while you were to fly in. I have not and will not defend that, and have said it was I’m proper. So you can direct your hostility elsewhere.

But there was a list of well over a hundred town residents that signed up to a listserv to oppose your seaplane base and commercial use of the town dock in the proper, democratic way of contacting town representatives to oppose what you were seeking. You can disparage the opponents as “agitators” or “activists” all you want, but each and every one of those folks has a valid reason to oppose what you are trying to do in their backyard. If you want to tell anyone to grow up, perhaps you can look in the mirror and ask yourself why so many people oppose what you seek, and hardly any support has emerged for you. But no one should stand by silent as you baselessly attack the good names and integrity of more than a hundred town residents that have done nothing more than oppose your proposal through the proper channels.

Unless and until you have emails from each and every one of the individuals that signed up to the listserv agreeing with or joining in anything improper, stop with the transparent efforts to disparage the entirety of your opposition with the stupidity of one bad apple.


________________________________________

[nhd]

I, like many, have been following this post and Epic’s comments on the various Facebook pages. I give support to what Cow Times has been stating and feel they have done a good job. When you don’t get the response you want you get snarky, offer rides or ask someone to call you. A public forum and Facebook are open for dialogue for all to see. If you were “threatened” in an email you were not to have received than appropriate actions would have been taken by the authorities. As far as the cancellation of the demonstration it was not on the agenda for the selectmen. The fire chief in the first selectmen meeting where this was discussed wanted the fly in to be on a busy Saturday as it should be.
As far as the list it was ok for you to post on the Facebook pages for people to write the selectmen in support of the plane even if they do not pay taxes in town, but as soon as a “list” goes out of those who do pay taxes in town you take offense.
Everyone needs to remember that this was initially started when the store owner applied for a commercial landing strip which is required for a plane to land with paying customers. If Epic wants to land occasionally with family he has demonstrated that he can and there has been no alteration done for this to happen. Yes barges use the dock but they are not asking for any alterations, they also are there for only the amount of time needed to load their materials.
Smaller boats and jet skis can and do use the north side of the dock, I think there has been a request by the town to dredge that side when the dock is renovated.
I for one do not like the idea of a commercial business getting exclusive use of the dock and have concerns about the wing blocking for emergency vehicles. I also do not think people in the area mind an occasional plane but what you and the store owner are proposing will generate a lot of noise.
This is not the response Epic will want to hear but I agree there should be no alteration of the dock for the use of a commercial business.

[Sundancer320]

This guy won’t get it... never will. He has engaged in smear, threats and intimidation of people exercising their right to oppose his proposal. All you have to do is look at previous posts of his regarding law enforcement and a so called list. I had this list sent to me and it had nothing in the way of any actions to take. Only a way to add your info to those opposing and as CowTimes stated...it was a long list... so his assertion of a credible threat are pretty weak and is another example of his style of throwing up a smoke screen. I think this seaplane plan will be short lived and will fade away. The selectman seem to know there is a lot of backlash. Oh, I was lakeside on the so called demo day...a couple kayakers and a couple of pontoon boats cruising about... not much a blockade or credible threat.

[ITD]

..........

[FlyingScot]

No one threatened to make a list and turn people in who oppose the Seaplane.

They made the list, they made the threats. Not me.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

This is not true, and your ranting in earlier posts with no reference to emails or blockades was threatening to people on this Forum

[MAXUM]

This just keeps getting better by the day!

[knowit]

I need to get on this list!

[KPW]

You leave the dock on a Saturday afternoon in July for a one hour tour. You return to the dock one hour later to drop your first passengers and pick up for your second tour. But by now there are boats where your plane was, and other boats waiting to come ashore. What do you do?

I asked the same question and the response was he would do exactly what I would do. I am not flying a plane so not sure that he can do what I would do.

[CowTimes]

For those still following this issue, the Tuftonboro Board of Selectmen will be attending a seaplane demonstration at Union Wharf this Friday, July 9 at 11:00 a.m.

https://www.tuftonboro.org/sites/g/files/vyhlif5096/f/agendas/bos_7.9.2021_meeting_notice_0.pdf

[The Real BigGuy]

Lots of rain forecast for Friday. Wonder if it will actually happen?


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[Randy Owen]

With all the hell raised over the noise generated from Camp Belknap I can only imagine how mental the nearby residents will get with the sound of planes landing and taking off.

Might help Mr. Owen's chickens lay eggs though ;)

i have roosters. if you can get them to lay eggs i don't care what you fly! teee hee

[knowit]

I just read on FB that the demo was moved to 7-16-21 at 9AM.

[chaseisland]

Don't believe everything you read on FB.

[knowit]

Rescheduled again to July 23 9 AM due to island clean up day.

[chaseisland]

What, too much boat traffic?

[Sundancer320]

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

[Charlie T]

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.

What were you using for a meter to obtain these readings? What Weighting scale?

A cell phone app is the next best thing to worthless. A professional meter that is calibrated on site with a calibrator, just prior to taking the readings, is the only accurate way to take a meaningful measurement. In my work, I take acoustic sound level measurements on a regular basis to evaluate the effect of professional sound systems in residential neighborhoods. Neighbors seem to all have $20.00 amazon meters or cell phone apps which vary widely and can easily be manipulated to read what suits ones purpose either high or low.

I"m not trying to give you a hard time but simply to bring up the fact that an arbitrary reading has little meaning.

[chaseisland]

Today's test was a waste of time. No boats in the bay during the landing. Ambient weekend conditions demands numerous boats in the bay area creating numerous wakes at various angles to each other and several Captain boneheads thrown within the mix.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Demo today. Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run.


This is good data! Thank you for posting!

[Sundancer320]

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Don’t get too excited Epic... this is a reading from a couple hundred yards away with non official acoustic gear. My experience says the decibel reading would be quite a bit higher. Comparing yourself to the diesel truck in your chart doesn’t help your case.

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

[Tyler]

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

From facebook a short time ago, name withheld by me, "as a neighbor on Mirror Lake I can verify that the noise generated during take-off and landing would wake the dead. It’s loud!"

[knowit]

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Epic’s arrogance at the impromptu question and answer session was way louder than 84 decibels. Speaks volumes for his character. You are not fooling anyone.

Please don't confuse confidence with arrogance. Attempting to accomplish something of worth or value is done by confident people. Attempting to prevent or inhibit is done by arrogant people. You may have enjoyed asking the question, you just did not enjoy listening. Again, im confident that if you call me up and have a conversation that you would still be unhappy with the answers. No changing people's minds that just want "plane be gone". Have a great day. And besides, it wasn't an impromptu question session, it was specifically a Seaplane demonstration for the town selectman to consider having the dock posts lowered. I think the few agitators there heard the Chairman say that loud and clear.

[CowTimes]

Characterizing all those opposed to your attempt to run a seaplane business from town property as “agitators” is the definition of arrogance. There are lots of legitimate reasons why this is a horrible idea for 19 mile bay, including safety, noise, zoning, improper use of public property, among many others. You are living in your own universe—indeed, you are the only one that is affirmatively advocating for your proposal, which is unsurprising since it is a thinly veiled attempt for you to run a business from town property without addressing zoning, licensing, or substantial liability issues for the town. This is not about just lowering dock posts. The only reason you want to lower dock posts and went to get runway approval was because you need that to run paying customers from Union Wharf. The board of selectmen clearly understands what is going on here. They have repeatedly said—including at this year’s Islander’s Association meeting—that this “proposal” is going nowhere anytime soon, and there will be public hearings before anything like this is even considered, and all that will not happen until after Union Wharf is rebuilt in a year a two. Good luck pushing your own personal, pecuniary agenda at public hearings where you characterize everyone with legitimate opposition as agitators that should just be dismissed out of hand. The board of selectmen see the overwhelming opposition from their constituents and have no reason to defy the clear will of the community for you.

[Sundancer320]

Offering up that you don't live very close to where I took off from and that it was quieter than a lawnmower isn't helping your case.

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Lawnmower? You’ve reached another level of arrogance.

I am not the one who posted the decibel levels. Now you are trying to unwind your post...

[LIforrelaxin]

So all this discussion about noise... Makes me think about the boat noise debate.... some fun information on this subject...

1. When sound is at 85 decibels for a duration of a work shift (8 hours) OHSA requires hearing protection
2. how loud is your average construction site -- around 100 decibels
3. how load is a conversation between two individuals sitting at a table --- around 60 decibels...

With this said, those who argue over noise pollution, as a reason not to allow a personal sea plane to go in and out of the town dock... better not be yelling, or having any work done....

Over all people tend to be too worked up over this.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

[John Mercier]

Stationary dB testing with calibrated equipment set to an A-Weighting at 20 inches from the exhaust really isn't comparable to a moving object at unknown distance.

[FlyingScot]

.... I understand both sides, I have talked with EPIC.... I see where he stands and honestly he is well within his rights. Now if you want to argue over other elements of getting the seaplane base designation, you really need to be talking to the Pier 19 store owner, is is far more able or likely to actually do something with the approval if it happens.

Nobody is trying to infringe upon Epic's rights--he is free to fly his plane. He has asked for things, such as dock modifications, that the town may grant. But he does not have a right to those things.

All people have a right to express their opinion. Epic has criticized people vehemently for exercising those rights.

So I think you have the rights thing backwards.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?

[FlyingScot]

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?

Same issue--just different people involved. 20 Mile Bay is a public beach. Giving away a public beach to a business is no different than giving away dock space.

[Seaplane Pilot]

New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….:rolleye1:

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tailwind-air-seaplane-flights-boston-nyc/

[FlyingScot]

New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….:rolleye1:

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tailwind-air-seaplane-flights-boston-nyc/

You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing

[Seaplane Pilot]

You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing

Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.

[BrunoSR]

Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.

Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?

Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.

[marinewife]

There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.

[BrunoSR]

Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.

I have no dog in the fight either. I rent a dock on the other side of the lake, though we do drop a hook in both 19 and 20 mile bays for lunch.

I don't believe the people that are against it, think there isn't enough space for both boat and plane out on the water. It's at the dock that is an issue. Of course I could be totally wrong.

Maybe he should buy or rent a slip and run a launch between dock and boat.... just an idea.

[Seaplane Pilot]

There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

[FlyingScot]

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.

Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.

[FlyingScot]

Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.

Yes, there are a number of people in 19 Mile Bay who do not want planes up and down hourly in their back yards. I don't find that unreasonable or infringing on normal plane use of the lake. Just as I don't find it unreasonable to object to circling wake boats.

There has been organized opposition to wake boats. It was beaten back, as these things often are, by industry lobbying that stacked the deck against real action. You might Google NH wake boat commission or something like that. Look at the composition of the committee. Try not to laugh/cry at the idea of that particular group of people representing the general public's view on wake boats.

[Sundancer320]

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?


Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..

[SAB1]

Additionally, a dock with limited boat access as it stands at present.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

[Tyler]

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

Could it have been simply for informational purposes for those interested in how loud it was?

[Sundancer320]

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.

[Seaplane Pilot]

So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.

So there is another agenda. And by the way, pound sand on the Sherlock name calling.

[Closetzguy]

if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?

[thinkxingu]

if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?I asked all these questions much earlier in the thread and never received an answer.

I believe that is because the only answer is holding space.

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[knowit]

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

[TheTimeTraveler]

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

I actually stopped @ Pier 19 to examine their "new" dock the other day. It does look very nice, and appeared to be freshly rebuilt for the purpose of selling their boat gasoline retail business. Because their actual dock is located directly next to land (on two sides) then I would say it is impossible for a plane to ever tie up there. It's hard enough to get a 30' boat safely in and out of there, so I would say a small aircraft would not have a safe place to maneuver in and out of there.

This boat gasoline business is a bit different @ Pier 19 as it is not located at the outer end of a typical dock, rather it is located at the inner land side end of a separate, privately owned condominium space dock (with a locked access gate). In fact, some boaters unfamiliar with the area may not even know that gasoline is even available for purchase there due to lack of visibility approaching from 19 Mile Bay.

With that said, the only option is the Town owned dock and that dock would need some minor alteration in order to accommodate an aircraft...... and it doesn't appear that the Town is too anxious to allow that. Therefore I believe it is highly unlikely for any of this to actually happen.

[RTTOOL]

As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes, rivers and the ocean where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.

The Live free or DIE moto was before all the Mass and New York moved IN...:laugh:

[The Real BigGuy]

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

The store does not have a “private dock” that can accommodate a seaplane. It’s only dock is the gas dock


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[knowit]

Well isn’t that a shame?
So how then does it become the town’s issue simply because she doesn’t have the infrastructure?

Plain and simply, it doesn’t.
No commercial planes at the town dock.
When this goes to the town vote this will be dead.
Unfortunately we need to listen to Epic’s rants until then.

[marinewife]

Been hearing a lot of seaplane trips for the past month and wondered if there was a new ad somewhere-

Today, at the Pier 19 store, there's an ad on the window- it has Epic's plane photos, a phone number, email, and how to book online.

Maybe all he needed was advertising there and he doesn't need the dock anymore...

[Wentworth06]

Question,
I see on the website that the seaplane or in reality Float Plane is based on mirror lake. I’m curious as to what the residents think of having this based there. I see them and others come into our area a lot now and like seeing them but rolling up next to us and departing close by I may think differently.

[Tyler]

Epic will tell ya everyone on Mirror Lake loves him and has no issues with him taking off multiple times a day. Talk to many of his neighbors and you will get a completely different story. A few vocal people who support him will say on social media all is fine however many Mirror Lake residents are fed up but do not want to publicly state their displeasure and are voicing their concerns behind the scenes.

[C-Bass]

How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?

[thinkxingu]

How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[owenoutdoors]

Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

building docks on what land? It would have to be on state land or in front of private waterfront. If you aren't familiar with 19 mile bay, left of the union wharf is private waterfront and right of the gas pumps is state land. The gas docks go right up next to the states land and cannot be expanded.

[Lil' Barndoor Guy]

The seaplane pilot decided to land right in the middle of the Wolfeboro Bay boat race coarse on Saturday. Thankfully, it was during a break in the racing. He tried to park at the public docks which were reserved for the race boats. He was told that he could not, so he beached the plane on the private beach next to the docks and tied it to a tree. He was told he could not take off until the race was over (4 hours), but sure enough, 2 hours later he was on the move. I saw Marine Patrol taking to him but I don't know what was done. I guess rules don't apply to seaplanes.

[Randy Owen]

At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

The seaplane pilot

Can you be more specific? Did you get the pilot's name? Did you get the tail number? Did you get an aircraft type? Because it wasn't me. What I am finding out is that most people who dislike seaplanes (like Chip) don't know the difference between one seaplane and another. Everywhere a seaplane shows up people think it's me. It's good advertising for sure, and I appreciate it!

It is nice to see that the community is opening their eyes to the fact that there are a lot of seaplanes around and that they can operate safely, and coexist even in a crazy environment like a boat race. I'm assuming the seaplane didn't have an accident or get ticketed for doing anything illegal? Glad everything worked out fine. Glad he had the sense to not land during the race (good decision) and glad he didn't destroy his airplane by coming into the docks with the high dock posts, but chose the beach instead!

[winniwannabe]

I live near Logan airport most of the year, so I understand the noise factor.
However, I love being outside on the deck looking up at planes of all sizes flying overhead. When I'm at the lake for my 2 weeks in the summer, I love seeing
a seaplane. Once a helicopter flew by our dock about 25 ft. altitude. I
thought it was kinda cool. Also made sure nothing was wrong.(found out
later that there's a private heliport in Gilford or somewhere else nearby).
It amazes me that when the Green Mountain Boys are up there doing drills
no one has a problem w/ the noise. Yes, it's comforting that the civil air
patrol is up there, and I see (and hear) alot of B52 flyovers at my house.
I believe there are sightseeing tours now, but I think the pilot's based out of Laconia. I'll get down from my soapbox now... good luck. Hope an outcome is happy for all.

[knowit]

This is awesome. Thank you Camp Belknap!
It definitely was not Epic at the races. I ran the tail number.
Epic , you have balls calling out Chip. Not much brains, but balls.
Randy, you will never peacefully coexist with the camp. Just sell them your half of the island and move on. Tired of seeing your posts slamming them .

[CowTimes]

At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.

I don’t believe the prospect of any lawsuit was raised. Camp Belknap’s attorney made a submission to the selectmen that apparently identified many of the existing legal impediments with running a seaplane tour business out of 19 mile bay. What was mentioned at the meeting is that the Pier 19 store would need to obtain a variance since the store is in a residential (not commercial) zone and the existing variance and site plan review did not include running a seaplane tour business from the property (recall that the store is on the permit application for the runway). This is not a new issue, and has been raised previously on this forum and with the selectmen.

The camp’s attorney also noted that they are raising safety issues with a runway in 19-mile bay with the appropriate state officials.

[Mirror Lake's BB]

We live on Mirror Lake and have been woken up by the noise the plane makes as it roars over houses during takeoff and landing. Last fall, the plane took off and landed 3 times on one day and 4 on another. How can there be a commercial company operating in an area zoned residential? There are many others on the lake that feel that the plane disturbs the quiet nature of the lake and belongs elsewhere.

[chasedawg]

i understand there was a 19 mile bay seaplane hearing last night in Tuftonboro with T-tee shirts SAYING RUNWAY? NOW WAY.!
Did anyone attend? What was the result?

[knowit]

It was a fantastic turnout. Majority of folks were locals and against the runway except for Epic and his out of town cronies that came to sing his praises.
The meeting was put on by the state not Tuftonboro. The main purpose was safety. The lawyer for the case against the runway was amazing. Someone is bankrolling this and it shows. He made all valid safety concerns and the state is now going to consider all points raised. This action by the state will certainly help the town when it’s time for them to consider Epic’s commercial use of the Pier. I can’t wait till this goes to a town vote. If the meeting turnout is any indication, there is no way this will pass. Next up we need to ban Epic from using his Mirror Lake residence for commercial purposes. Lots of his neighbors are pissed off.
Oh, and to show what kind of person he is there were two seaplanes doing touch and goes on 19 mile bay this morning. I guess someone is not happy with the way the meeting went.

[knowit]

We live on Mirror Lake and have been woken up by the noise the plane makes as it roars over houses during takeoff and landing. Last fall, the plane took off and landed 3 times on one day and 4 on another. How can there be a commercial company operating in an area zoned residential? There are many others on the lake that feel that the plane disturbs the quiet nature of the lake and belongs elsewhere.

You really should log a formal complaint with the town about this. There are rules in place for the commercial use of a residence. The more people that complain the better. Organize your neighbors. This can be stopped or at least curtailed.

[tis]

We saw the two planes close together come out of Mirror Lake in the morning. I wondered why they were so close.

[Force5]

It was a fantastic turnout. Majority of folks were locals and against the runway except for Epic and his out of town cronies that came to sing his praises.
The meeting was put on by the state not Tuftonboro. The main purpose was safety. The lawyer for the case against the runway was amazing. Someone is bankrolling this and it shows. He made all valid safety concerns and the state is now going to consider all points raised. This action by the state will certainly help the town when it’s time for them to consider Epic’s commercial use of the Pier. I can’t wait till this goes to a town vote. If the meeting turnout is any indication, there is no way this will pass. Next up we need to ban Epic from using his Mirror Lake residence for commercial purposes. Lots of his neighbors are pissed off.
Oh, and to show what kind of person he is there were two seaplanes doing touch and goes on 19 mile bay this morning. I guess someone is not happy with the way the meeting went.

Why would have to vote if state turns runway for safety reasons? Makes no sense. Case closed!?

[SAB1]

Why would have to vote if state turns runway for safety reasons? Makes no sense. Case closed!?

Not sure I’m grasping your comment…..

[LIforrelaxin]

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

[SAB1]

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

Well said and agree. Planes can land wherever they want and no problem with that. It’s been that way as long I remember. Somehow the whole business concept of seaplane rides off the town dock slipped into another path.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

LI, just to clarify: The petition was filed with the State to BAN seaplanes from 19 Mile Bay in its entirety. I think it will crash and burn (excuse the pun), but here’s the language from the hearing notice just so everyone knows what the NIMBY’s have been cooking up:

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY
NOTICE OF HEARING

PURSUANT TO RSA 270:12, A PUBLIC HEARING ON A PETITION SEEKING A CLOSURE OF NINETEENMILE BAY ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE TO SEAPLANES, IN ITS ENTIRETY, SPECIFICALLY FROM THE WESTERNMOST END OF CHASE POINT, BEHIND THE WEST SIDE OF MELVIN ISLAND AND TO THE WESTERNMOST END OF SAWYER POINT, TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WILL BE HELD ON THURSDAY, JULY 7, 2022 AT 7:00 PM, AT THE TUFTONBORO CENTRAL SCHOOL GYMNASIUM, 205 MIDDLE ROAD, CENTER TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

TESTIMONY WILL BE ALLOWED THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING ISSUES:

(1) THE SIZE OF THE BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF FOR WHICH RULEMAKING ACTION IS BEING CONSIDERED.
(2) THE EFFECT WHICH ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE (S) WOULD HAVE UPON:
(A) PUBLIC SAFETY;
(B) THE MAINTENANCE OF RESIDENTIAL, RECREATIONAL AND SCENIC VALUES;
(C) THE VARIETY OF USES OF SUCH BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF;
(D) THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER QUALITY;
(E) THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES.
(3) THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AFFECTED, EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, BY ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE(S); AND
(4) THE AVAILABILITY AND PRACTICALITY OF ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULE(S).

PERSONS WISHING TO TESTIFY ARE URGED TO COORDINATE THEIR TESTIMONY TO AVOID UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION OR REPETITION. THE DEPARTMENT, WITHIN A PERIOD OF SEVEN (7) DAYS AFTER THE SCHEDULED HEARING, MUST RECEIVE SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN MATERIAL.

AUTHORITY FOR HEARING: RSA 270:12 AND SAF-C 409.

[LIforrelaxin]

LI, just to clarify: The petition was filed with the State to BAN seaplanes from 19 Mile Bay in its entirety. I think it will crash and burn (excuse the pun), but here’s the language from the hearing notice just so everyone knows what the NIMBY’s have been cooking up:

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY
NOTICE OF HEARING

PURSUANT TO RSA 270:12, A PUBLIC HEARING ON A PETITION SEEKING A CLOSURE OF NINETEENMILE BAY ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE TO SEAPLANES, IN ITS ENTIRETY, SPECIFICALLY FROM THE WESTERNMOST END OF CHASE POINT, BEHIND THE WEST SIDE OF MELVIN ISLAND AND TO THE WESTERNMOST END OF SAWYER POINT, TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WILL BE HELD ON THURSDAY, JULY 7, 2022 AT 7:00 PM, AT THE TUFTONBORO CENTRAL SCHOOL GYMNASIUM, 205 MIDDLE ROAD, CENTER TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

TESTIMONY WILL BE ALLOWED THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING ISSUES:

(1) THE SIZE OF THE BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF FOR WHICH RULEMAKING ACTION IS BEING CONSIDERED.
(2) THE EFFECT WHICH ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE (S) WOULD HAVE UPON:
(A) PUBLIC SAFETY;
(B) THE MAINTENANCE OF RESIDENTIAL, RECREATIONAL AND SCENIC VALUES;
(C) THE VARIETY OF USES OF SUCH BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF;
(D) THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER QUALITY;
(E) THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES.
(3) THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AFFECTED, EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, BY ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE(S); AND
(4) THE AVAILABILITY AND PRACTICALITY OF ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULE(S).

PERSONS WISHING TO TESTIFY ARE URGED TO COORDINATE THEIR TESTIMONY TO AVOID UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION OR REPETITION. THE DEPARTMENT, WITHIN A PERIOD OF SEVEN (7) DAYS AFTER THE SCHEDULED HEARING, MUST RECEIVE SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN MATERIAL.

AUTHORITY FOR HEARING: RSA 270:12 AND SAF-C 409.

Legislation like that is dangerous......As you say I hope this falls apart at the seams..... Like No Rafting Zones, once the first one is established other area's of the lake will start doing the same....

Personally I love watching sea planes come in and take off.....

[tg38]

where are the mufflers on those planes. wonder how they would like if shoe was on the other shoe. very annoying

[Seaplane Pilot]

I have word that a decision has been made in this matter.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Thankfully cool heads prevailed.

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/hearings/documents/20220906-19-mile-bay-order.pdf

[LIforrelaxin]

Thanks for the update, I am glad cooler heads prevailed.... This would have simply been wrong...

[thinkxingu]

If I'm reading that correctly, the petition was to ban seaplanes in 19-Mile Bay and that the petition failed?

I thought the original issue regarded the town docks being adjusted to allow seaplanes to dock there?

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[ITD]

If I'm reading that correctly, the petition was to ban seaplanes in 19-Mile Bay and that the petition failed?

I thought the original issue regarded the town docks being adjusted to allow seaplanes to dock there?

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

This is a group of people who don't want sea planes landing on the lake. From what I can tell, the hullabaloo came to a head over an operator asking for a dock to be modified so he could occasionally operate to the dock. Coincidently there is a petition to create a seabase on the bay, which would define an area for seaplanes to operate. The problem from what I read is that the DOT already approved the seabase and it is their jurisdiction. This report recommended, for a variety of reasons detailed in the report, not approve the petitioned ban on sea planes.

[winniwannabe]

Maybe I'm a little off base here, but I think old maps of the Lake used to show a seaplane route. As a kid, I remember a seaplane landing on the water and taxiing to his dock along the east side of Alton Bay. I always thought that was sooo cool, flying to their cottage.

I don't think it would be practical now on most parts of the Lake. To much boat traffic. Best wishes to all who support or oppose a dock in 19 Mile Bay.

side note to Up the Saukee... you probably remember the plane and the owner. Well known car dealer in MA.

[LikeLakes]

Personally I love watching sea planes come in and take off.....

Me too! Have enjoyed watching them all my life. I enjoy the sound as well.

[chasedawg]

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

[LIforrelaxin]

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

If the incident needs to be reported, I would start with the Marine Patrol.... they can make the decision, or advise you if it needs to go the the FAA.... I would make sure you have the tail number of the plane, as that is its identifier.....

[The Real BigGuy]

If he didn’t clear his take off his run before starting he is not meeting his responsibilities under his seaplane license. In this case I would report to FAA. You will need the planes’ I’d number.

On the other hand, boaters should not to cross his path once he has started his run regardless if they have “right of way.” Once he starts his takeoff run he has many things to be watching and can’t devote 100% of his time to watching for boaters and it is much more difficult, & potentially dangerous, for the plane to suddenly have to take evasive maneuvers. It is kind of like deferring to a larger craft because you are more maneuverable. It should never turn into an “but I had the right of way” accident.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

On the other hand, boaters should not to cross his path once he has started his run regardless if they have “right of way.” Once he starts his takeoff run he has many things to be watching and can’t devote 100% of his time to watching for boaters and it is much more difficult, & potentially dangerous, for the plane to suddenly have to take evasive maneuvers. It is kind of like deferring to a larger craft because you are more maneuverable. It should never turn into an “but I had the right of way” accident.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

This is exactly why it is wrong to promote increased seaplane use in a busy area

[Billy Bob]

I think if you review what happened it will clearly be the boaters fault.
You can’t say you dident know he was preparing to take off. The plane makes egnough noise and spray that people a mile away know what’s going on.
You can’t say you dident know his course. Once he starts the run it’s a straight line to takeoff.
Perhaps your desire to get rid of seaplanes on the lake was the real obstacle here.

[ITD]

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

The first time I pushed the quote button on your post the "thanks" appeared, now it says I don't have permission to remove. Anyway, I'm having trouble understanding this post.



"He was not in our danger zone but he was certainly in our danger zone." What does that mean?

He was in a "stand by" situation, again what does that mean?

" Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane. " Paddle boards move at maybe 4 or 5 mph, dropping off the board, will not prevent a collision with an aircraft accelerating to take off. Maybe they were enjoying the show?

Pilots taking off do not look up, they look in front of them which includes where a potential collision would occur.

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

[Woodsy]

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

Umm.... you might need a refresher course on the laws especially regarding Seaplanes! In NH, Seaplanes exempt from ALL laws and rules concerning the operation of boats for the purpose of landing and taking off from public waters. If you put yourself in a crossing situation with a Seaplane, it is definitely on you!

https://casetext.com/statute/new-hampshire-revised-statutes/title-39-aeronautics/chapter-422-new-hampshire-aeronautics-act/prohibitions-and-penalties/section-42227-seaplanes-in-operation-on-public-waters

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Umm.... you might need a refresher course on the laws especially regarding Seaplanes! In NH, Seaplanes exempt from ALL laws and rules concerning the operation of boats for the purpose of landing and taking off from public waters. If you put yourself in a crossing situation with a Seaplane, it is definitely on you!

https://casetext.com/statute/new-hampshire-revised-statutes/title-39-aeronautics/chapter-422-new-hampshire-aeronautics-act/prohibitions-and-penalties/section-42227-seaplanes-in-operation-on-public-waters

Woodsy

Separate from the law and whether chasedawg's in need of a refresher--you seem to be implying that adding more seaplane traffic to a heavily boated area is the boaters' problem. Have you been to 19 Mile Bay on a summer weekend? Always plenty of boats, many with captains I would bet are much less knowledgable than most on this forum. This is a really bad accident just waiting to happen

[Woodsy]

Separate from the law and whether chasedawg's in need of a refresher--you seem to be implying that adding more seaplane traffic to a heavily boated area is the boaters' problem. Have you been to 19 Mile Bay on a summer weekend? Always plenty of boats, many with captains I would bet are much less knowledgable than most on this forum. This is a really bad accident just waiting to happen

To answer your question, yes, I have been to 19 Mile Bay on busy weekends. (I like the fried chicken available across the street) and it's a cool place to hang. However, I am implying no such thing about Seaplane traffic... Your post however seems to be implying that area is only open to boats and Seaplanes are unwelcome. Seaplanes have just as much right to use 19 Mile bay (or any place on the lake) as anyone else. Personally, I would rather have the runway marked on a chart to make me aware of possible Seaplane operations. There has been one in Paugus Bay for as long as I can remember.

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

To answer your question, yes, I have been to 19 Mile Bay on busy weekends. (I like the fried chicken available across the street) and it's a cool place to hang. However, I am implying no such thing about Seaplane traffic... Your post however seems to be implying that area is only open to boats and Seaplanes are unwelcome. Seaplanes have just as much right to use 19 Mile bay (or any place on the lake) as anyone else. Personally, I would rather have the runway marked on a chart to make me aware of possible Seaplane operations. There has been one in Paugus Bay for as long as I can remember.

Woodsy

That's fair. Like you, I did not mean to imply more than I wrote. My concern is that marking it on a chart is likely to increase seaplane traffic, and I don't think that's safe in that area in the summer, even if there is a legal right to do so

[LIforrelaxin]

This thread is going back in circles... The concern remains the same, is there enough room in 19 mile bay for both Sea Plane and boat traffic, and will a designated running in the bay cause more sea plane traffic. So lets ask our selves a question or two:

1. what would draw in the sea plane traffic with a designated runway?
2. Are their adequate facilities to tie up sea planes?

When you think about those two questions, really 19 mile bay isn't that attractive. Now if facilities where put in place to make a more ideal situation for Sea Planes to dock temporarily maybe there would be an argument that the store could be a draw for people. But Honestly that is it.... And I don't think the store is going to be able to add docking to allow that to happen....

At the end of the day, this is just something to needlessly squabble about...People need to just let this go..... A simple question was raise, on who to report a perceived wrong doing to.... I left my suggestion, and then the debate started again.... let it rest...

[ITD]

I don't have a seaplane rating, but a designated runway would be counterproductive considering the vocal opposition to seaplanes. I can see it now, if the waterway was approved and charted, these people would then be upset at seaplanes landing outside of the designated runway. There are probably at least thousands of seaplane operations a day in the US, accidents are rare and collisions with boats or other objects are even more rare. Probably a better chance of being struck by lightning, definitely a better chance of being injured driving a car.

[fatlazyless]

With 468-posts, and counting, so far, in this thread ....... has the Epic Seaplane Adventures website ..... www.epicseaplaneadventures.com ...... or ..... www.facebook.com/epicseaplaneadventures ..... made it into this thread, yet?

Knowing very little about float planes other that they are intended for landing on a smooth lake water surface in remote areas without a landing strip/airport, this old red & white float plane is a very happening looking, small float plane.

Laconia Municipal Airport in Gilford, NH has a 5890-foot paved runway, very usable by large jet airplanes and has no regularly scheduled commercial passenger airline service so it is always 24/7, 100% available for landing and take-offs by private planes.

Is about ten air miles flight from Nineteen Mile Bay on Lake Winnipesaukee?