City of Laconia home rentals

[Red apple]

Looks like they are cracking down on rental homes in Laconia. Letters going out to homeowners that rent by the week or night saying to stop or you will be fined $275/day. In order to keep renting you have to go to the city and apply for a zoning change. They state that renting is in violation of the city’s zoning ordinance and site plan regulations. Watch out everyone doing weekly rentals and Air B and B...


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[swnoel]

Looks like they are cracking down on rental homes in Laconia. Letters going out to homeowners that rent by the week or night saying to stop or you will be fined $275/day. In order to keep renting you have to go to the city and apply for a zoning change. They state that renting is in violation of the city’s zoning ordinance and site plan regulations. Watch out everyone doing weekly rentals and Air B and B...


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Velcome comrades... we will stop these people! This is just another disgusting overreach of threat then force by government.

[Biggd]

People have to rent out their property in Laconia just to help pay their tax bills. Just another reason I would never buy property there. :rolleye1:

[garysanfran]

Quite a few are for Bike Week. Quite a few are weekly vacation rentals on The Lake. Wonder what Laconia is going to do about people who want to vacation there?

[TiltonBB]

The zoning issue is half the battle for rental home owners.

As soon as you register with the City and acknowledge that you rent your property you will be monitored to be sure that you pay the 9% rooms and meals tax. Approved seasonal operators must file reports for each month of their approved season, even if no tax is due.

What's next? An increase in your assessed value because you are able to rent your property and generate income from it. That will make your property more valuable.

And so it begins...................

[Red apple]

The zoning issue is half the battle for rental home owners.



As soon as you register with the City and acknowledge that you rent your property you will be monitored to be sure that you pay the 9% rooms and meals tax. Approved seasonal operators must file reports for each month of their approved season, even if no tax is due.



What's next? An increase in your assessed value because you are able to rent your property and generate income from it. That will make your property more valuable.



And so it begins...................



The 9% tax letters went out from the state earlier this year. They went on all the rental web sights and then sent letters to all in NH that has a room or house for rent. Even if you had it listed and didn’t rent it you got a lovely certified letter from the state...


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[TiltonBB]

From The Laconia Daily Sun:

The city Planning Department has started enforcement actions

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/four-enforcement-actions-launched-under-airbnb-policy/article_01dd0fb8-f344-11e8-8633-672bf83024ba.html

[AC2717]

Another reason that makes Laconia a laughing stock of the area

[Descant]

NH has a good plan with regard to Interest and Dividends Income Tax. If you only make so much, you don't owe the tax, AND the form says please don't file if you don't owe. We don't wan the extra paperwork. If I rent my camp for only a coupe of weeks, and the income to the state is minimal,. considering cost of administration, why bother?

[TiltonBB]

NH has a good plan with regard to Interest and Dividends Income Tax. If you only make so much, you don't owe the tax, AND the form says please don't file if you don't owe. We don't wan the extra paperwork. If I rent my camp for only a coupe of weeks, and the income to the state is minimal,. considering cost of administration, why bother?

You are confusing income tax with rooms and meals tax. A 9% tax is assessed upon patrons of hotels (or any facility with sleeping accommodations), and restaurants, on rooms and meals costing $.36 or more. You will owe (unless you rent your camp for less than 36 cents) from the first dollar. The tax is due on the 15th day of the month following the taxable period.

The tax is paid by the consumer and collected by operators of hotels, restaurants, or other businesses providing taxable meals, room rentals, and motor vehicle rentals.

Approved seasonal operators must file reports for each month of their approved season, even if no tax is due.

[garysanfran]

From The Laconia Daily Sun:

The city Planning Department has started enforcement actions

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/four-enforcement-actions-launched-under-airbnb-policy/article_01dd0fb8-f344-11e8-8633-672bf83024ba.html

There are several property owners near me that rent their places out during the summer to pay the property tax.

So if Meredith adopts this and a couple of neighbors complain, my neighbors will be forced to sell and if more towns adopt this, what happens to the summer tourist industry? What happens to the restaurants and other tourist supported businesses? Bayside Rentals (specializing in renting single family homes short term)? If this is carried to an extreme would only hotels and motels be "allowed" to rent to tourists and vacationers? Or is that the design?

In my little mind the problem isn't short term renters, it's noise, which can be generated by long-term renters as well. Maybe even a home owner themselves being a bad neighbor!!! What about that barking dog? Biker with a loud Harley? Enforcement against noise makes more sense to me than taking income away from someone because there is a possibility the short-term renter could be noisy (chances are they'll be gone in a week. A noisy home owner/resident is permanent. Not gone in a week).

Some day I'll write a book..."The Unintended Consequences".

Ehhh, probably not!

[AC2717]

There are several property owners near me that rent their places out during the summer to pay the property tax.

So if Meredith adopts this and a couple of neighbors complain, my neighbors will be forced to sell and if more towns adopt this, what happens to the summer tourist industry? What happens to the restaurants and other tourist supported businesses? Bayside Rentals (specializing in renting single family homes short term)? If this is carried to an extreme would only hotels and motels be "allowed" to rent to tourists and vacationers? Or is that the design?

In my little mind the problem isn't short term renters, it's noise, which can be generated by long-term renters as well. Maybe even a home owner themselves being a bad neighbor!!! What about that barking dog? Biker with a loud Harley? Enforcement against noise makes more sense to me than taking income away from someone because there is a possibility the short-term renter could be noisy (chances are they'll be gone in a week. A noisy home owner/resident is permanent. Not gone in a week).

Some day I'll write a book..."The Unintended Consequences".

Ehhh, probably not!

its actually a state tax and is enforced by the state and the town (started a hard push on it just about over two years ago when the letters 1st started to come out to those pubilically announcing they are renting online), and Laconia is helping the enforcement and taking it a step further by making the people in residential areas apply for a variance to operate a "Rental business" in a residential area because zoning laws technically do not allow it, and they could deny it. They don't have any other major problems to deal with in the town.

Those in other zones like Commercial or Commercial Resort (example would be the old motels and cottage rental places that are now condos and in this zone) that rent their residential properties out do not need to apply for the variance for Laconia but they still need to file with the state and collect the tax according to the law.

[Descant]

You are confusing income tax with rooms and meals tax. A 9% tax is assessed upon patrons of hotels (or any facility with sleeping accommodations), and restaurants, on rooms and meals costing $.36 or more. You will owe (unless you rent your camp for less than 36 cents) from the first dollar. The tax is due on the 15th day of the month following the taxable period.

The tax is paid by the consumer and collected by operators of hotels, restaurants, or other businesses providing taxable meals, room rentals, and motor vehicle rentals.

Approved seasonal operators must file reports for each month of their approved season, even if no tax is due.
I/m not confusing anything. The point is, there should be a set level where you don't pay any tax and you are not required to file anything. Quoting the law is the opposite approach. The law should be changed, not enforced to the point of being a money loser for small occasional rentals and state administrators.. The comparison to the I & D tax was only to the reduced paperwork (NO FILING) for many citizens.

[WinnisquamZ]

This issue would have been everyone’s little secret if the owners of the properties in question addressed their neighbors concerns. If I understand the law correctly, each summer home that rents, know of three on my street must apply for a variance to continue to rent. Who will be enforcing this bylaw?


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[TiltonBB]

Who will be enforcing this bylaw?
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First: I agree that this response to an isolated problem is overkill. Noise complaints and a police response would have been sufficient.

But, as to the question of who will enforce it? A few years ago I made repeated complaints to the Laconia Planning Department about repeated flagrant violations of the city's zoning laws. I submitted pictures that documented the violations. As a result of the complaints, the former Planning Director had letters sent to the violator with instructions to stop the violations. The violations continued.

I met with the former Planning Director demanding fines and court action. She informed me that they could not take any court action because they had not taken court action in the past with previous unrelated violators. Her contention was that they could be sued by the current violator because they had ignored previous violators. Huh? Does that mean you can never enforce the zoning regulations because you have never enforced the zoning regulations?

Subsequently, the City Manager told her to not have any further discussions with me and stop taking my calls and ignore my emails.

So, I guess that means you can do whatever you want because Laconia refuses to enforce it's zoning regulations

[garysanfran]

First: I agree that this response to an isolated problem is overkill. Noise complaints and a police response would have been sufficient.

But, as to the question of who will enforce it? A few years ago I made repeated complaints to the Laconia Planning Department about repeated flagrant violations of the city's zoning laws. I submitted pictures that documented the violations. As a result of the complaints, the former Planning Director had letters sent to the violator with instructions to stop the violations. The violations continued.

I met with the former Planning Director demanding fines and court action. She informed me that they could not take any court action because they had not taken court action in the past with previous unrelated violators. Her contention was that they could be sued by the current violator because they had ignored previous violators. Huh? Does that mean you can never enforce the zoning regulations because you have never enforced the zoning regulations?

Subsequently, the City Manager told her to not have any further discussions with me and stop taking my calls and ignore my emails.

So, I guess that means you can do whatever you want because Laconia refuses to enforce it's zoning regulations

A way to collect the $275/day fine, however.

What an incredible story you've shared here.

[Mr. V]

People in Laconia who use the internet to rent their properties out should not be heard to complain about having to pay the same tax that motel/resort owners pay.

Fair is fair.

[Red apple]

People in Laconia who use the internet to rent their properties out should not be heard to complain about having to pay the same tax that motel/resort owners pay.

Fair is fair.

I would say the people renting have no issue (OK maybe some) paying the state and town tax fees like a Hotel/Motel. In fact VRBO does have a line item you can add your tax to and the renter will be billed as a added expense. The major issue I see here is that the town will only "go after" people that have complaints against them. So if I don't like the neighbor down the street because ...and he rents his house out i just make a phone call to the town and wham he is screwed.. I just don't think that is right it should a a law or not a law.

[AC2717]

I would say the people renting have no issue (OK maybe some) paying the state and town tax fees like a Hotel/Motel. In fact VRBO does have a line item you can add your tax to and the renter will be billed as a added expense. The major issue I see here is that the town will only "go after" people that have complaints against them. So if I don't like the neighbor down the street because ...and he rents his house out i just make a phone call to the town and wham he is screwed.. I just don't think that is right it should a a law or not a law.

sort-of sounds like the Gustapo::(

[8gv]

The city becomes aware of the illegal renting via the complaint.

That requires fewer hours of investigative time.

It's the low hanging fruit.

With enough media attention and a few first hand "I got fined" testimonials, I would expect greater compliance would follow.

If the ordinance is inappropriate citizens can bring pressure to bear on their elected representatives.

Failing that, one could run for office.

[garysanfran]

The city becomes aware of the illegal renting via the complaint.

That requires fewer hours of investigative time.

It's the low hanging fruit.

With enough media attention and a few first hand "I got fined" testimonials, I would expect greater compliance would follow.

If the ordinance is inappropriate cotizens can bring pressure to bear on their elected representatives.

Failing that, one could run for office.

"Illegal renting"...

The illegal activity should be the noise, not the renting. I love it when the proposed solution for those in opposition to Govt. policy is that the citizens can vote them out...or..."One could run for office" themselves!

Crap! One issue politics.

I can't wait for my fellow voters to become educated, and I don't have the time to hold office myself...Besides I live in California and, I suppose, should not have an opinion on this local subject.

[joey2665]

It should be an even playing field. If patrons staying at a motel/hotel short term must pay the 9% occupancy tax then so should patrons of short term rentals of all kinds no matter if it is through a broker, website of advertisement. People renting their vacation homes should not have an upper hand over a business that has invested in their property and community as an on going concern.

[garysanfran]

It should be an even playing field. If patrons staying at a motel/hotel short term must pay the 9% occupancy tax then so should patrons of short term rentals of all kinds no matter if it is through a broker, website of advertisement. People renting their vacation homes should not have an upper hand over a business that has invested in their property and community as an on going concern.

I go through Bayside Rentals for any rental activity and they handle all of this for me. Pay the tax. Keep the noise level low.

If I pay my tax, but the neighbors complain about noise, should I be disallowed from renting?

An ongoing behavioral problem at a rental property, after the police have dealt with the occupants, and got no satisfaction, should become the landlord's problem. The neighbors then file a negligent landlord complaint against the landlord. Problem in San Francisco is that rent control limits what a landlord can do about behavioral problems. And this is a City with some real behavioral problems.

[joey2665]

I go through Bayside Rentals for any rental activity and they handle all of this for me. Pay the tax. Keep the noise level low.

If I pay my tax, but the neighbors complain about noise, should I be disallowed from renting?

An ongoing behavioral problem at a rental property, after the police have dealt with the occupants, and got no satisfaction, should become the landlord's problem. The neighbors then file a negligent landlord complaint against the landlord. Problem in San Francisco is that rent control limits what a landlord can do about behavioral problems. And this is a City with some real behavioral problems.

No you should not. If the tenants are violating any local ordinance then they should be the ones that are fined.

[MAXUM]

You are confusing income tax with rooms and meals tax. A 9% tax is assessed upon patrons of hotels (or any facility with sleeping accommodations), and restaurants, on rooms and meals costing $.36 or more. You will owe (unless you rent your camp for less than 36 cents) from the first dollar. The tax is due on the 15th day of the month following the taxable period.

The tax is paid by the consumer and collected by operators of hotels, restaurants, or other businesses providing taxable meals, room rentals, and motor vehicle rentals.

Approved seasonal operators must file reports for each month of their approved season, even if no tax is due.

So I rent my place for 15 cents per week and charge a $1500 non refundable damage and cleaning deposit I'm good?

[garysanfran]

So I rent my place for 15 cents per week and charge a $1500 non refundable damage and cleaning deposit I'm good?

They'd make you prove that the cost of your repairs and cleaning were at least $1,500/week. They'd probably hit you up for the tax on the $0.15 also.

Yup...Laconia has lots of addictions!

[8gv]

"Illegal renting"...

The illegal activity should be the noise, not the renting. I love it when the proposed solution for those in opposition to Govt. policy is that the citizens can vote them out...or..."One could run for office" themselves!

Crap! One issue politics.

I can't wait for my fellow voters to become educated, and I don't have the time to hold office myself...Besides I live in California and, I suppose, should not have an opinion on this local subject.

Well what does one do if one's elected representatives are not upholding or striking down ordinances that one finds of interest?

Is there a lawsuit to be had?

Shall one storm the castle with pitch forks?

Everyone can have an opinion.

Not everyone has standing.

[garysanfran]

I don't know...

Wondering if Lowes sells pitch forks...

[upthesaukee]

I don't know...

Wondering if Lowes sells pitch forks...

They do, and after 30 days you can return it for a refund of your money. And don't forget to stop by Wal-Mart to get one of their $4.97 noodles on sale, which can be cut up and used as protection for the sharp prongs on the pitchfork. Safety first... Yabadabado !:D

Dave

[radar4401]

I don't live in Laconia but have seen problems with rentals in other areas. I have a slightly different opinion. The state has to raise money for a variety of programs. When people rent a vacation home, they are no different than a B & B as far as I'm concerned. If people don't pay the room tax, it means that other taxpayers have to pay that much more. Problems with renters has nothing to do with people paying the tax. Vacation homes are nothing different than different than a business when they rent it out.

[joey2665]

I don't live in Laconia but have seen problems with rentals in other areas. I have a slightly different opinion. The state has to raise money for a variety of programs. When people rent a vacation home, they are no different than a B & B as far as I'm concerned. If people don't pay the room tax, it means that other taxpayers have to pay that much more. Problems with renters has nothing to do with people paying the tax. Vacation homes are nothing different than different than a business when they rent it out.



Absolutely agree. Also more often than not the tenants are not from New Hampshire so residents of the state are really not paying the tax non resident visitors are.


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[8gv]

To separate the issues...

In some areas renting is not legal.

Some people rent their property and don't collect tax.

Some renters misbehave.


The city is trying to resolve these issues.



In other news...

Alaska had an earthquake making some roads impassable with winter a few weeks away. :eek:

[Redbarn]

There seems to be a little confusion by some.

The city's new rule has nothing to do with the state meals and rental tax. This is strictly a state issue. You are expected to display your license # in all ads and collect the 9% and pay it to the state. The city does not enforce or get involved in this. The state does actively look at rental website and check and see if people do have a license.

The cities New rule is about zoning, and if short term rentals are a permitted use in the zone. Also the article does Not state a very important point. Short term rentals are allowed in the CR and SFR zones. So really this new rule is just to prevent short term rentals in the downtown area. It does not apply to most of the shore front and Weirs, since they are CR and SFR. So most vacation rentals are not effected.

If I were the city I would ask that the article point this out. I see this creating a lot of phone calls come spring from feuding neighborhoods who think they can report their neighbors.

[Outdoorsman]

And yet your tax rate keeps going DOWN

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/city-finalizes-tax-rate-bills-go-out-next-week/article_a33d9682-f4ea-11e8-b6e3-9b2211ac6db9.html

[swnoel]

Meaningless :( IMHO

From the article: The numbers that really mean anything are below.
This fiscal year, the amount to be raised by taxes for the city, schools and the county was more than $44 million, compared to $42.8 million in the previous fiscal year.

1.2 million dollar increase.

Just read an article about Manchester, 72% of property tax payers did NOT have a child in the school system! That's frightening and I wonder what those percentages are in other cities and towns?

[TiltonBB]

The Manchester number of taxpayers (72%) who did not have a child in the school system is an interesting fact.

I don't know if anyone has ever taken the time to figure it out but it would be interesting to know the percentage of tax revenue in the lake front towns that comes from non voting (non-resident) taxpayers. The Manchester statistic is the number of taxpayers, the dollar numbers would tell a different story.

[tis]

The so called rich towns which include the towns around the lake better watch the legislature. They are again talking about making us pay even more in taxes to help out the "poorer" towns. If they come up with anything like they did last winter our taxes will increase a lot!

[joey2665]

The so called rich towns which include the towns around the lake better watch the legislature. They are again talking about making us pay even more in taxes to help out the "poorer" towns. If they come up with anything like they did last winter our taxes will increase a lot!



Maybe the 9% room tax on short term rentals would help. At least it mostly comes from tourists and not residents and seasonal residents.


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[DUFF821]

I don't live in Laconia, but what about the people that have to live next to these rentals? It's a terrible feeling living next to strangers every weekend. People are more concerned with paying taxes than they are for their neighbors safety and piece of mind. Would you want to live next to one of these rentals or is it a "not in my backyard" mentality. It's time for regulations on short-term rentals regardless of the zoning.

[joey2665]

I don't live in Laconia, but what about the people that have to live next to these rentals? It's a terrible feeling living next to strangers every weekend. People are more concerned with paying taxes than they are for their neighbors safety and piece of mind. Would you want to live next to one of these rentals or is it a "not in my backyard" mentality. It's time for regulations on short-term rentals regardless of the zoning.

I am in Laconia and have been in two different neighborhoods with rentals next door. I have never really had a major issue, asked one to tone it down a little once. Remember these are homes mostly near or on the lake and many owners are non residents like myself. Besides many of the gated communities around the lake already allow and have short term rentals

[kauriel]

We previously owned a condo and I personally thought the weekly renters were much better behaved than the longer term winter renters. We never had an issue with the weekly summer renters but had some issues with noise and odor with winter renters. Hopefully the city can find ways to minimize disruptions from both types of renters instead of just focusing on those that may be bringing in tourism.

[garysanfran]

I don't live in Laconia, but what about the people that have to live next to these rentals? It's a terrible feeling living next to strangers every weekend. People are more concerned with paying taxes than they are for their neighbors safety and piece of mind. Would you want to live next to one of these rentals or is it a "not in my backyard" mentality. It's time for regulations on short-term rentals regardless of the zoning.

Guess you never lived in a City?

I know less than 50% of my neighbors. Lots of them are renters. Some of them I know "of" from afar and don't want to get to know them any closer. No matter where you live, you can have problem neighbors...Some could be owners and not renters. A bad weekly renter will be gone in a week. A bad home owner may be there forever.

Why are renters here getting this bad rap? They're all people and not all people behave the same. Is it the 9%?...Pay it.

Two years ago I had a neighbor, on the Lake, rent their place to some folks from Russia. They were GREAT! Loved their company better than the permanent owners. I have another permanent neighbor I would gladly trade for an unknow weekly.

[Biggd]

Guess you never lived in a City?

I know less than 50% of my neighbors. Lots of them are renters. Some of them I know "of" from afar and don't want to get to know them any closer. No matter where you live, you can have problem neighbors...Some could be owners and not renters. A bad weekly renter will be gone in a week. A bad home owner may be there forever.

Why are renters here getting this bad rap? They're all people and not all people behave the same. Is it the 9%?...Pay it.

Two years ago I had a neighbor, on the Lake, rent their place to some folks from Russia. They were GREAT! Loved their company better than the permanent owners. I have another permanent neighbor I would gladly trade for an unknow weekly.Most weekly renters are respectful, most not all, but many of the longer winter renters are not as nearly good.

[greeleyhill]

There seems to be a little confusion by some.

The city's new rule has nothing to do with the state meals and rental tax. This is strictly a state issue. You are expected to display your license # in all ads and collect the 9% and pay it to the state. The city does not enforce or get involved in this. The state does actively look at rental website and check and see if people do have a license.

The cities New rule is about zoning, and if short term rentals are a permitted use in the zone. Also the article does Not state a very important point. Short term rentals are allowed in the CR and SFR zones. So really this new rule is just to prevent short term rentals in the downtown area. It does not apply to most of the shore front and Weirs, since they are CR and SFR. So most vacation rentals are not effected.

If I were the city I would ask that the article point this out. I see this creating a lot of phone calls come spring from feuding neighborhoods who think they can report their neighbors.

I was going to make the same point but reading through the thread, I see you beat me to it :) Really good clarification - thanks again!

[greeleyhill]

And yet your tax rate keeps going DOWN

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/city-finalizes-tax-rate-bills-go-out-next-week/article_a33d9682-f4ea-11e8-b6e3-9b2211ac6db9.html

The tax rates may have gone down but the valuations on lakefront homes (only on lake front homes) in Laconia went up close to 20% last year. Hard for me to celebrate a reduced tax rate under those circumstances.

[8gv]

I found it interesting to listen to the radio news story saying that the Laconia tax rate went down.

What matters is the tax bill.

Mine went up.

[kjkam]

Most people did, unless you were a business in the region, example valuation of the naswa went down almost 15%, as the result of a 30% reduction in the value of the land, imagine that they figure the land that the naswa sits on is equal in value to that of a 1/4 acre single family lot on paugus bay

[joey2665]

The tax rates may have gone down but the valuations on lakefront homes (only on lake front homes) in Laconia went up close to 20% last year. Hard for me to celebrate a reduced tax rate under those circumstances.

Its raising the pants or lowering the shirt. No matter what they achieve their goal and end up will increasing our property tax.

[Major]

Board denies requests for variances.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/board-deals-blow-to-airbnb-type-rentals/article_a38e0914-0318-11e9-ada0-ef7fef0cb552.html

[Red apple]

Board denies requests for variances.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/board-deals-blow-to-airbnb-type-rentals/article_a38e0914-0318-11e9-ada0-ef7fef0cb552.html

I see appeals and lawsuits coming for the City! A quick search this morning and there are over 70 rentals online in Laconia from one night, weekly and monthly. Another search there are many other towns and city's in the US with the same concerns and many have lost and the homeowners were allowed to due as they were with rentals. There has to be a happy medium so the homeowners and towns can agree. Living in the Lakes Region were rentals are popular and people spend anywhere from $2500-$25,000 per week and I as a homeowner would like to know if the money was needed I could rent our homes.

[joey2665]

Board denies requests for variances.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/board-deals-blow-to-airbnb-type-rentals/article_a38e0914-0318-11e9-ada0-ef7fef0cb552.html

Another reason why I left Long Bay. I am very familiar with 7 Rose Point as I was just around the corner. Those condos, along with the condo next door to my single family home have seen short term rentals for many years and from first hand ID I can tell you there were no issue I have seen.

This is again the sub HOA's within Long Bay and the city council overreaching their boundaries that continue to hamstring homeowners. Long Bay, Southdown and all the sub HOA's rule and regulation you to death. Yes HOA's need rules but they always take it a set too far which is again why I left. I am now in a different HOA that is much more reasonable with its rules.

[TiltonBB]

This regulation is a huge mistake for the city and a knee jerk reaction to isolated incidents.

The Lakes Region has a long history of rentals and it is a great way to introduce new visitors to the area. They bring cash, support local businesses, and enjoy all that the area has to offer. Many will return year after year and some will end up buying property either as a vacation home or even a full time home. It makes no sense to place unnecessary restrictions on property owners. Some property owners are only able to hang on to their homes because of the financial help that renting provides.

The homeowners associations can deal with their communities and when that does not apply anyone can make a noise or disturbance complaint to the police.

The amount of problems reported does not seem to have risen to the level that a new regulation was needed in the "Live Free or Die" state. And, the house that was at the root of the problem has been sold to someone who does not intend to rent it.

I hope that there is a reconsideration of this and the city reverses this action.

[Biggd]

This regulation is a huge mistake for the city and a knee jerk reaction to isolated incidents.

The Lakes Region has a long history of rentals and it is a great way to introduce new visitors to the area. They bring cash, support local businesses, and enjoy all that the area has to offer. Many will return year after year and some will end up buying property either as a vacation home or even a full time home. It makes no sense to place unnecessary restrictions on property owners. Some property owners are only able to hang on to their homes because of the financial help that renting provides.

The homeowners associations can deal with their communities and when that does not apply anyone can make a noise or disturbance complaint to the police.

The amount of problems reported does not seem to have risen to the level that a new regulation was needed in the "Live Free or Die" state. And, the house that was at the root of the problem has been sold to someone who does not intend to rent it.

I hope that there is a reconsideration of this and the city reverses this action.I don't have property in Laconia but this sets a bad precedent for other communities to follow.

[Irish mist]

Laconia NEVER fails to disappoint in so many ways. Absolute mismanagement of the city on every level.

[Major]

Another reason why I left Long Bay. I am very familiar with 7 Rose Point as I was just around the corner. Those condos, along with the condo next door to my single family home have seen short term rentals for many years and from first hand ID I can tell you there were no issue I have seen.

This is again the sub HOA's within Long Bay and the city council overreaching their boundaries that continue to hamstring homeowners. Long Bay, Southdown and all the sub HOA's rule and regulation you to death. Yes HOA's need rules but they always take it a set too far which is again why I left. I am now in a different HOA that is much more reasonable with its rules.

I've lived full time in Long Bay for 10 years and prior to that in South Down part time for 7 years. I am against renting in Long Bay, especially on a weekly basis. My feeling is that if you can't afford a second home without renting on a weekly basis, you shouldn't own. Historically, renting was allowed to enable those who can't afford a second home to afford one. However, now that South Down and Long Bay are nearly fully developed, that need does not exist. There seems to be an ample amount of people who can afford second homes. Weekly rentals should not be allowed in a residential environment.

My wife and I use the Long Bay beach often, and we can definitely tell who are renters. 75% are decent and nice, and the remaining 25% are somewhat obnoxious. I would prefer not having to put up with the 25% at all.

My experience with the Long Bay and South Down rules and regulations have been minimal. I don't think they over manage, but we have a tendency to stay in our lane.

[joey2665]

I've lived full time in Long Bay for 10 years and prior to that in South Down part time for 7 years. I am against renting in Long Bay, especially on a weekly basis. My feeling is that if you can't afford a second home without renting on a weekly basis, you shouldn't own. Historically, renting was allowed to enable those who can't afford a second home to afford one. However, now that South Down and Long Bay are nearly fully developed, that need does not exist. There seems to be an ample amount of people who can afford second homes. Weekly rentals should not be allowed in a residential environment.



My wife and I use the Long Bay beach often, and we can definitely tell who are renters. 75% are decent and nice, and the remaining 25% are somewhat obnoxious. I would prefer not having to put up with the 25% at all.



My experience with the Long Bay and South Down rules and regulations have been minimal. I don't think they over manage, but we have a tendency to stay in our lane.



I completely disagree on many levels. First of all I was a board member on a sub HOA in Long Beach for 10 years and without a doubt they overregulate you on many issues from small building issues to paint colors to nonsense about golf carts etc. etc. as far as renting goes, It’s my house and as long as my tenants abide by the rules of the HOA’s then there’s no reason why I shouldn’t be able to have short term tenant. I don’t believe the boards have a right to tell me I can and cannot rent again as long as the tenants stay within the regulations and rules if they violate the rules fine there should be some type of penalty for the owner which I have no problem with


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[Major]

I completely disagree on many levels. First of all I was a board member on a sub HOA in Long Beach for 10 years and without a doubt they overregulate you on many issues from small building issues to paint colors to nonsense about golf carts etc. etc. as far as renting goes, It’s my house and as long as my tenants abide by the rules of the HOA’s then there’s no reason why I shouldn’t be able to have short term tenant. I don’t believe the boards have a right to tell me I can and cannot rent again as long as the tenants stay within the regulations and rules if they violate the rules fine there should be some type of penalty for the owner which I have no problem with


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If I live in a residential neighborhood, I would not want weekly rentals. That is why such rentals are zoned out of residential neighborhoods. Long Bay is a residential neighborhood. If you lived on Holman Street in Laconia, zoning laws would prohibit you from renting weekly. Long Bay should be no different. Obviously, there is no issue when tenants comply with the rules. Issues arise when tenants don't comply. Threats and fines are inadequate recourse for when issues arise, and unfortunately, the occur far too often.

[joey2665]

If I live in a residential neighborhood, I would not want weekly rentals. That is why such rentals are zoned out of residential neighborhoods. Long Bay is a residential neighborhood. If you lived on Holman Street in Laconia, zoning laws would prohibit you from renting weekly. Long Bay should be no different. Obviously, there is no issue when tenants comply with the rules. Issues arise when tenants don't comply. Threats and fines are inadequate recourse for when issues arise, and unfortunately, the occur far too often.

Yes but this was allowed until recently. As someone whose neighbor rented weekly in LB and being on a board in LB there were little to no complaints at all. In fact most of the complaints reported were in regards to owners violating rules, not tenants

[Major]

Yes but this was allowed until recently. As someone whose neighbor rented weekly in LB and being on a board in LB there were little to no complaints at all. In fact most of the complaints reported were in regards to owners violating rules, not tenants

Just because it was allowed doesn't necessarily mean it was the right thing to do. As the owner of a small business, the last thing I want to hear my employees say is that "we always did it that way." In this case, it was probably a bad idea to allow weekly rentals, but was tolerated to encourage people to purchase properties. That time has passed. I'm just one vote, but I'd vote against it.

[joey2665]

Just because it was allowed doesn't necessarily mean it was the right thing to do. As the owner of a small business, the last thing I want to hear my employees say is that "we always did it that way." In this case, it was probably a bad idea to allow weekly rentals, but was tolerated to encourage people to purchase properties. That time has passed. I'm just one vote, but I'd vote against it.

I owned a small business also for 30 years. Your missing my point, the law should have never been changed, you are restricting my rights as a landowner. There were just are not enough complaints to justify the change, this came over one specific incident and the rest are now paying for it. Laconia is a vacation destination and now you are limiting visitors who rent homes on a weekly basis so the home will just sit empty when there could be renters that patron the businesses around the lake.

[Major]

I owned a small business also for 30 years. Your missing my point, the law should have never been changed, you are restricting my rights as a landowner. There were just are not enough complaints to justify the change, this came over one specific incident and the rest are now paying for it. Laconia is a vacation destination and now you are limiting visitors who rent homes on a weekly basis so the home will just sit empty when there could be renters that patron the businesses around the lake.

I don't think I am. While I agree with you emotionally on some level, the "right" you assert is based on less than solid ground. Had the planning department and city council enforced the zoning laws since the beginning of SD/LB, the "right" you reference would not exist. There is no right. Owners in a residential neighborhood do not expect nor want weekly rentals. There should be no difference for owners in Long Bay.

[joey2665]

I don't think I am. While I agree with you emotionally on some level, the "right" you assert is based on less than solid ground. Had the planning department and city council enforced the zoning laws since the beginning of SD/LB, the "right" you reference would not exist. There is no right. Owners in a residential neighborhood do not expect nor want weekly rentals. There should be no difference for owners in Long Bay.



I’m not saying there should be. I think all Laconia should be allowed to short term rent and there were allowed to until recently. I think your statement that owners “do not expect nor want weekly rentals” is quite broad and you nor I have any way of knowing if it’s accurate.


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[Red apple]

So I guess my question is does the zoning board have the right to pick and choose who they allow to short term rent and who they say no to. I just watched the three hour town meeting (it is on you tube if you search it) and there is no way that I can see that renting your home by the week through VRBO or the night with Air B2B is that you can prove a hardship.With that said the board said no to all three that at that nights meeting and most likely will continue to say no to everyone that comes in for a variance.

[joey2665]

So I guess my question is does the zoning board have the right to pick and choose who they allow to short term rent and who they say no to. I just watched the three hour town meeting (it is on you tube if you search it) and there is no way that I can see that renting your home by the week through VRBO or the night with Air B2B is that you can prove a hardship.With that said the board said no to all three that at that nights meeting and most likely will continue to say no to everyone that comes in for a variance.



So much for “Live Free or Die”


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[fatlazyless]

So, "how can a residential property suddenly turn into a commercial property in a residential area? I would think that local homeowners have a right to have their neighborhood remain a private residential neighborhood."


* copied from 1/02/19 www.ConwayDailySun.com, letters to the editor from Lorene Miklos

[Biggd]

So much for “Live Free or Die”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)They need to change that logo. It no longer rings true.:(

[joey2665]

They need to change that logo. It no longer rings true.:(

Unfortunately you are correct

[Woodsy]

IMHO,

While I don't think government should really have to get involved...

If you live in an area that is zoned Residential, then you probably shouldn't be doing short term rentals. Your neighbors didn't sign up for a small motel next door.

If you live in the Commercial Resort zoned areas of the city like the Weirs, you should be allowed to do short term rentals as long as your HOA allows it.

For the record, I live in the Weirs and my HOA does not allow short term rentals.

Woodsy

[Biggd]

IMHO,

While I don't think government should really have to get involved...

If you live in an area that is zoned Residential, then you probably shouldn't be doing short term rentals. Your neighbors didn't sign up for a small motel next door.

If you live in the Commercial Resort zoned areas of the city like the Weirs, you should be allowed to do short term rentals as long as your HOA allows it.

For the record, I live in the Weirs and my HOA does not allow short term rentals.

WoodsyIt's been a staple of resort areas forever but now that it can be tracked it's no longer allowed? That doesn't really make sense. I don't rent my house out but I wouldn't want to be told I couldn't. My neighbor across the street from me rented her A frame out all summer, weekly rentals, and I had no issues with the tenants but if I did she would hear about it.

[Major]

It's been a staple of resort areas forever but now that it can be tracked it's no longer allowed? That doesn't really make sense. I don't rent my house out but I wouldn't want to be told I couldn't. My neighbor across the street from me rented her A frame out all summer, weekly rentals, and I had no issues with the tenants but if I did she would hear about it.

If you live in a zoned residential area, you cannot rent your house on a short term basis without a variance or by changing the zoning. In the past, the City chose not to enforce the zoning laws. With the advent of internet short term rental sites, the issue is now at the City level, and now they are enforcing the zoning laws. I agree with Woodsy. I would not expect while living in a zoned residential neighborhood to have weekly rentals next to my home.

The enforcement of the zoning laws has nothing to do with the evaporation of the Live Free or Die mentality of our great State. Our State's moto has been undergoing a slow death (no pun intended) over the past decade or so. Growth of government and the insatiable desire for the almighty tax dollar have done more to change our mindset away from the Live Free or Die mentality.

[Woodsy]

Biggd....

The resort areas in Laconia are zoned as such. Most of the Weirs is zoned Commercial Resort. Weekly rentals should absolutely be allowed in this zone. As long as the HOA rules allow for it.

Residential zoned property is a different animal entirely. What happens when somebody comes out with an app and the guy next door decides to switch from weekly rental to hourly?

People who own property in a residentially zoned neighborhood have a reasonable expectation that the guy next door cannot turn his property into a no tell motel.

Never mind the 9% room tax the state isn't getting.

Here is a link to the zoning map... https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=

Woodsy

[Biggd]

If you live in a zoned residential area, you cannot rent your house on a short term basis without a variance or by changing the zoning. In the past, the City chose not to enforce the zoning laws. With the advent of internet short term rental sites, the issue is now at the City level, and now they are enforcing the zoning laws. I agree with Woodsy. I would not expect while living in a zoned residential neighborhood to have weekly rentals next to my home.

The enforcement of the zoning laws has nothing to do with the evaporation of the Live Free or Die mentality of our great State. Our State's moto has been undergoing a slow death (no pun intended) over the past decade or so. Growth of government and the insatiable desire for the almighty tax dollar have done more to change our mindset away from the Live Free or Die mentality.My house is in Meredith. Sorry to say but, if I owned property in Laconia it would be up for sale.

[fatlazyless]

https://www.nhbr.com/September-14-2018/Airbnb-bookings-in-New-Hampshire-soared-over-50-percent-this-summer/ …. "Airbnb NH bookings soared over 50 percent this summer"



What the legislature could do is totally legalize both recreational marijuana and short term residential rentals in the same bill, and pass it unanimously!


Having done that, the Live Free or Die would be a real deal type of a license plate line. Otherwise, the line should be changed back to the 1963 license plate line of "Photoscenic".

Yes, is so very photoscenic here in NH except for the house next door with the 11 dope smok'n, weekend renters ….. this is the place! …. live free or die!

[Biggd]

Biggd....

The resort areas in Laconia are zoned as such. Most of the Weirs is zoned Commercial Resort. Weekly rentals should absolutely be allowed in this zone. As long as the HOA rules allow for it.

Residential zoned property is a different animal entirely. What happens when somebody comes out with an app and the guy next door decides to switch from weekly rental to hourly?

People who own property in a residentially zoned neighborhood have a reasonable expectation that the guy next door cannot turn his property into a no tell motel.

Never mind the 9% room tax the state isn't getting.

Here is a link to the zoning map... https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=

WoodsyI understand what you're saying and I can understand what's happening. Things change fast on the information highway. I just think there could be a better way of policing these issues. With the amount of money people pay in taxes in Laconia it's perfectly understandable if they rent their place out some weeks to help pay the tax burden.

[TiltonBB]

I know that there are hundreds of single family homes around the lake that are sometimes rented out on a weekly basis. I have one next to my residence that I have rented out for 16 years. There are a few house rental agencies around the lake as well, some of whom represent over 100 rental homes. The agencies do collect the appropriate taxes on the rentals.

Many homeowners rent out of necessity to help them afford the house. What may have been affordable to their ancestors might have become more than they can afford. I would rather see them rent out their house than be forced off the lake. Also, if you start to limit the number of weekly rentals the price will rise because of supply and demand..

I am all for the rental process as it also enables families to come to the area, spend money, and enjoy all that it has to offer. That helps all of our businesses survive. Some families that have vacationed in the area for years go back to the same rental house every year. Many end up buying property.

I would rather see the towns enact a system that will enable some warning and an escalating fine system for violations of noise or other town regulations. The ultimate penalty could be an injunction preventing rentals on a specific property for a set amount of time.

Placing restrictions on properties that have no complaint history is unnecessary.

[Woodsy]

TiltonBB...

Normally we are on the same page... but I think this short term rental issue in residentially zoned neighborhood is a very slippery slope. I have no problem with the neighbors renting out their property once or twice a year to help offset costs....

But most of the people who list on AIRBNB & VRBO are renting their property out as business venture. This changes everything... now instead of people living in a residential neighborhood, they find themselves living next to what amounts to a motel...

There are ZERO protections in place for the neighbors. There is no punishment available for unruly/loud behavior, (yes the police can stop the actual offenders, but there is no punishment to the owners) There is NOTHING from stopping someone from renting their house out "by the hour". There are no regulations regarding taxation and collection... etc etc.

Maybe once the laws are changed to protect the neighborhood, then I will reconsider. But for now, short term rentals should be allowed only in the Commercial Resort District.

Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

1913-2017: unlimited local prop tax deduction off your federal taxes ..... effective for tax year 2018: $10,000 maximum limit on same ........

So's, only seems fair for the $10,000+ prop tax payer, now under attack from the fed, to have the option for renting it out maybe two or three of those rainy June-July weeks for something like $3000/week and let someone else go play in that cool, clammy June-July lite misty rain that's been present for the last ten years what with the global warming.

It seems to me ...... that there otta be a law against this new tax law!

[Red apple]

My house is in Meredith. Sorry to say but, if I owned property in Laconia it would be up for sale.



Unfortunately Meredith and other lake towns are dealing with the same thing and will all be making changes to protect the residences in residential zoning areas.


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[Biggd]

1913-2017: unlimited local prop tax deduction off your federal taxes ..... effective for tax year 2018: $10,000 maximum limit on same ........

So's, only seems fair for the $10,000+ prop tax payer, now under attack from the fed, to have the option for renting it out maybe two or three of those rainy June-July weeks for something like $3000/week and let someone else go play in that cool, clammy June-July lite misty rain that's been present for the last ten years what with the global warming.

It seems to me ...... that there otta be a law against this new tax law!That tax change on real estate tax deduction will have zero effect on rich people buying or building multi million dollar homes in the lakes region. Most of those McMansions are empty 90% of the time, not rented for extra income to pay taxes.

[joey2665]

That tax change on real estate tax deduction will have zero effect on rich people buying or building multi million dollar homes in the lakes region. Most of those McMansions are empty 90% of the time, not rented for extra income to pay taxes.



I agree tax law will have ZERO effect on the McMansions. Many of these larger homes are not individually owned but you in LLC’s or another corporate structure for many reasons and this is an avenue to still receive the full property tax deductions plus deduct other expenses.


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[TiltonBB]

That tax change on real estate tax deduction will have zero effect on rich people buying or building multi million dollar homes in the lakes region. Most of those McMansions are empty 90% of the time, not rented for extra income to pay taxes.

One other thing to consider: If the property taxes are say $20,000 per year and the property use is 50% rental, half of the tax bill is deductible as a business expense and does not affect your $10,000 limit. If the house is 100% a rental property then the entire tax bill is a business expense and does not come into play with the $10,000 limit.

[Biggd]

Unfortunately Meredith and other lake towns are dealing with the same thing and will all be making changes to protect the residences in residential zoning areas.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I agree but there has to be a better way that can appease everyone. Maybe limit the amount of time it can be rented to one week a month and no renting by the just a day or a weekend.
People renting their second homes out in resort areas has been going on forever but, now with internet rental being popular, a new way of policing this needs to be implemented. I don't agree with just making it illegal.

[Woodsy]

I agree but there has to be a better way that can appease everyone. Maybe limit the amount of time it can be rented to one week a month and no renting by the just a day or a weekend.
People renting their second homes out in resort areas has been going on forever but, now with internet rental being popular, a new way of policing this needs to be implemented. I don't agree with just making it illegal.

I don't think anyone has ever had a problem if the neighbors rented their house out once or twice a year for week to cover taxes. Like you said that has been going on forever. However, with the advent of websites like Airbnb & VRBO, these rentals have essentially become an unregulated and untaxed small business. That is a problem.

I am not sure how the issue can be resolved, unless you restrict it to areas zoned a certain way.

Woodsy

[TiltonBB]

I agree but there has to be a better way that can appease everyone. Maybe limit the amount of time it can be rented to one week a month and no renting by the just a day or a weekend.
People renting their second homes out in resort areas has been going on forever but, now with internet rental being popular, a new way of policing this needs to be implemented. I don't agree with just making it illegal.
There are many waterfront homes that are used full time as rentals. My Gilford house is one of those. It is a weekly rental in the summer and one tenant from September until Memorial Day. The two houses immediately adjacent to the other side of the property (I spend summers in) have also been used 100% as rentals for the past 6 summers. I have no complaints about the people who have rented them and have not been impacted at all. Many of these rental homes were purchased by their owners for precisely that purpose.

If renting is significantly impacted by changes or enforcement of the laws I believe many homes will go on the market, and that will drive the sale prices down. That ranges from the families who rent to help offset expenses and use the property themselves, to properties that are rentals 100% of the time. When fewer house on the lake are available for rent, look for the weekly rental prices to skyrocket.

I still feel that the ideal solution is enforcement of noise regulations and regulations that specifically impact the problem property. As of this time, anyone who has purchased a home that is not in an association knew that there was a possibility that their neighbors could rent their home out. If the home is in an association the documents available before the purchase would inform the purchaser of the rental policy and may impact their decision to purchase.

We don't need to keep adding laws in the "Live Free or Die" state. In the view of many, continuously adding laws and regulations has already negatively impacted boating on the lake.

[kjkam]

Can someone confirm that Laconia is not creating a new law, just enforcement of existing regulations?

[fatlazyless]

The Laconia Daily Sun has an Oct 11, 2018 article: 'Short-term rentals come under new enforcement plan' that is a good read. It says the city already has the authority to restrict rentals according to permitted uses in various zones, and can fine the landlords who do not respond $275/day.

LaDaSun-Nov 28, 2018: 'Four enforcement actions launched under Airbnb policy'

LaDaSun-Dec 18, 2018: 'Board deals blow to Airbnb-type rentals'
…………

Conway Daily Sun-Jan 26, 2018: 'Unfairbnb? Short-term rentals mired in controversy'

[Garcia]

An easy solution, in my opinion, is to make a distinction between a short term rental to offset costs and a business venture. Pick a reasonable number, say 30 days/year that allows property owners to rent out their homes for short term rentals. If a property owner exceeds that number of days, it would be considered a business and face different, stiffer regulations.

Regardless of the number of days the property is rented, collect the state and local rental tax. If you are renting through Airbnb or VRBO, this is very easy to do.

Like any other regulation there are ways people can work around or ignore the above suggestion and no law or regulation is perfect. This is a model that has worked well in other communities.

[Woodsy]

An easy solution, in my opinion, is to make a distinction between a short term rental to offset costs and a business venture. Pick a reasonable number, say 30 days/year that allows property owners to rent out their homes for short term rentals. If a property owner exceeds that number of days, it would be considered a business and face different, stiffer regulations.

Regardless of the number of days the property is rented, collect the state and local rental tax. If you are renting through Airbnb or VRBO, this is very easy to do.

Like any other regulation there are ways people can work around or ignore the above suggestion and no law or regulation is perfect. This is a model that has worked well in other communities.

The question remains... how does the city/town know what days it was rented, and for how much? So the neighbors have to be eyes/ears of the city to make sure its not rented more than 30 days?

Not for nothing.. the burden should be on the property owner...

Woodsy

[joey2665]

The question remains... how does the city/town know what days it was rented, and for how much? So the neighbors have to be eyes/ears of the city to make sure its not rented more than 30 days?

Not for nothing.. the burden should be on the property owner...

Woodsy

That's the way it is in Florida. I have a home their which I rent short term and it is the obligation of the owner to report file and pay (which the owner collects from the tenant) the rental tax.

[Garcia]

The question remains... how does the city/town know what days it was rented, and for how much? So the neighbors have to be eyes/ears of the city to make sure its not rented more than 30 days?

Not for nothing.. the burden should be on the property owner...

Woodsy

It is the owners responsibility to follow the law, collect and send in the tax, etc. It works in other communities - but you're right that if there are flagrant violators, someone needs to let the enforcement body know.

[Redbarn]

This has nothing to do with the state Meals and Rental tax.

The cities New rule is about zoning, and if short term rentals are a permitted use in the zone. Also the article does Not state a very important point. Short term rentals are allowed in the CR and SFR zones. So really this new rule is just to prevent short term rentals in the downtown area. It does not apply to most of the shore front and Weirs, since they are CR and SFR. So most vacation rentals are not effected.

I will also include a link to the tax map so people can see what is effected.

https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=

If I was a person who rented in an area that is currently now prohibited. I would be asking where that was written in the zoning that it is not allowed. I have not seen that yet and I couldn't find it but I didn't look very hard.
You can see the table here https://www.ecode360.com/attachment/LA1353/LA1353-235b%20Table%20I.pdf

The closest after a quick skim I can see is maybe "Bed and Breakfast" but I doubt it meets the criteria, but it would be a CUP not a Variance. My point is the zoning didn't have short term rentals as something that was or wasn't allowed.

So at some point I would imagine, someone will challenge this. Especially if they purchased a property and the zoning was one way and then all of a sudden it was another with no public input. To create new zoning rules doesn't the public get to vote or have a hearing? Beyond my knowledge.

[Major]

This has nothing to do with the state Meals and Rental tax.

The cities New rule is about zoning, and if short term rentals are a permitted use in the zone. Also the article does Not state a very important point. Short term rentals are allowed in the CR and SFR zones. So really this new rule is just to prevent short term rentals in the downtown area. It does not apply to most of the shore front and Weirs, since they are CR and SFR. So most vacation rentals are not effected.

I will also include a link to the tax map so people can see what is effected.

https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=https://www.laconianh.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1688/2017-Zoning-Map?bidId=

If I was a person who rented in an area that is currently now prohibited. I would be asking where that was written in the zoning that it is not allowed. I have not seen that yet and I couldn't find it but I didn't look very hard.
You can see the table here https://www.ecode360.com/attachment/LA1353/LA1353-235b%20Table%20I.pdf

The closest after a quick skim I can see is maybe "Bed and Breakfast" but I doubt it meets the criteria, but it would be a CUP not a Variance. My point is the zoning didn't have short term rentals as something that was or wasn't allowed.

So at some point I would imagine, someone will challenge this. Especially if they purchased a property and the zoning was one way and then all of a sudden it was another with no public input. To create new zoning rules doesn't the public get to vote or have a hearing? Beyond my knowledge.

The issue isn't in areas where commercial zoning exists. The issue is where the zoning is residential. In South Down and Long Bay, the zoning is residential. The City is now enforcing the zoning law, although residents have been renting their properties on a weekly basis for years. Owners of properties in these residentially-zoned communities now have to go before the Board for a variance. There is no "new" law to my knowledge, merely enforcing existing law.

[Redbarn]

I understand, what you are saying. Where is the existing zoning law that states short term rentals are not allowed?
I can't find it.

In the zoning table of uses, I don't see "short term rentals" that or "airbnb policy". So I seems like the city is saying because it is omitted, here is our policy. My point is the current zoning isn't equipped for it, so they made decisions on it with out public input. I could be very wrong, I would just like to see where it is written because some attorney is definitely going to ask that.

[Major]

I understand, what you are saying. Where is the existing zoning law that states short term rentals are not allowed?
I can't find it.

In the zoning table of uses, I don't see "short term rentals" that or "airbnb policy". So I seems like the city is saying because it is omitted, here is our policy. My point is the current zoning isn't equipped for it, so they made decisions on it with out public input. I could be very wrong, I would just like to see where it is written because some attorney is definitely going to ask that.

Try this -- https://www.ecode360.com/15050211

Click on Attachment 2. It appears that hotel, motel and inn are not generally not permitted in residentially-zoned areas. It wouldn't be unreasonable for the Board to take the position that weekly rentals or weekend rentals through ABNB are the same as operating a motel or inn.

[Redbarn]

Are you sure that is accurate? The city is saying a short term rental has to meet the criteria for a hotel/motel? So when people are applying for variances they are applying for a hotel? Are you just assuming this or do you know this?

It doesn't seem to line up because the city is allowing short term rentals in only SFR and CR where as a hotel is allowed in a lot more zone than that. Also to get a variance, you would have to apply for your house to considered a hotel, so you would have to meet the dimensional requirement etc, like green space, parking. At that point, it would also allow you to get one room for every 1.5 parking spaces you can fit (higher density). So it is safe to say no one will ever get a variance for short term rentals. It would also mean that every town has the same current zoning as Laconia since every town most certainly has Hotel zoning and any town could take the same position as Laconia.

I would also point out that that means anyone renting in the SFR or CR is now considered a hotel and will have to meet the dimensional requirements and apply for a permit.

If this is what the city is saying a wish them the best of Luck when they take this up with a property owner who is attorney.

[Major]

My opinion only. I don't know for sure, but it seems that it is the position the Board is taking.

It will get litigated. I wouldn't count on the party seeking a variance winning. I don't think it's an unreasonable position that residential zoning prohibits short term rentals. That's just my opinion based on the intent of zoning laws.

[Redbarn]

My opinion only. I don't know for sure, but it seems that it is the position the Board is taking.

It will get litigated. I wouldn't count on the party seeking a variance winning. I don't think it's an unreasonable position that residential zoning prohibits short term rentals. That's just my opinion based on the intent of zoning laws.

Understood, I think I have mixed feelings on it. But I definitely think the current laws/rules are not equipped to handle it, and public input should have been taken before the city added the "airbnb Policy"

[TiltonBB]

There is a new story about rentals though it does not shed much new light on the subject.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/short-term-rentals-numerous-as-are-critics/article_2ecd068e-1e93-11e9-9f20-af958fe3951a.html

[joey2665]

There is a new story about rentals though it does not shed much new light on the subject.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/short-term-rentals-numerous-as-are-critics/article_2ecd068e-1e93-11e9-9f20-af958fe3951a.html

Interesting to see Rusty’s perspective and numbers he presented.


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[Major]

We received Long Bay's official position on short term rentals --

"Since the City Zoning Laws ban short term rentals in Long Bay, our Board has concluded that there are no additional considerations for Rules & Regulations needed at this time to address this subject. Simply stated, short term rentals are against the law in Long Bay, and anyone that continues to rent their home for less than 185 days are subject to City Laws that involve stiff fines."

I am pleased that our Board decided to follow the law. This is good news for our community.

[joey2665]

We received Long Bay's official position on short term rentals --

"Since the City Zoning Laws ban short term rentals in Long Bay, our Board has concluded that there are no additional considerations for Rules & Regulations needed at this time to address this subject. Simply stated, short term rentals are against the law in Long Bay, and anyone that continues to rent their home for less than 185 days are subject to City Laws that involve stiff fines."

I am pleased that our Board decided to follow the law. This is good news for our community.



I disagree with the law and LB. As I have stated my neighbor in LB rented weekly for years and never had an issue and I think short term rentals are good for the community and the economy. Big note as long as they follow the the rules at LBHOA and any other city ordinances.


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[Major]

I disagree with the law and LB. As I have stated my neighbor in LB rented weekly for years and never had an issue and I think short term rentals are good for the community and the economy. Big note as long as they follow the the rules at LBHOA and any other city ordinances.


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As the great Sy Robertson said, "we can disagree to disagree!" I'm not sure how often you used the beach, but you can definitely identify the renters from the owners. Most times it's not an issue, but sometimes it is. I'd rather not deal with it at all.

[joey2665]

As the great Sy Robertson said, "we can disagree to disagree!" I'm not sure how often you used the beach, but you can definitely identify the renters from the owners. Most times it's not an issue, but sometimes it is. I'd rather not deal with it at all.

I used both the beach and the pool every visit in season and yes you can tell the renters and relatives staying for "free" but I never experienced any issues and I was in Long Bay for 10 years.

I understand and respect your position.

[jetskier]

The issue is that city ordinance over arches any association rules. As such, the city ordinances take priority. Both SD and LB are essentially deferring to the city for any enforcement (of city ordinance). LB is restating the city ordinance and it is probably a stronger position than in the past. However, the city has indicated that enforcement is based upon complaints only.

The issue for associations such as SD and LB is that when a property is rented, the owner is not around to deal with issues. All problems become the responsibility of the board and property manager. Essentially, the community bears the cost of the rental and the individual reaps the benefit.

Some renters are terrific, but others feel that they can do whatever they want as they have paid for their vacation. It is a difficult situation as some homeowners do rely on rental income.


Jetskier :cool:

[TiltonBB]

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/board-rejects-another-short-term-rental-request/article_07242244-1f5f-11e9-80a2-ef05975c80d6.html

[joey2665]

The issue is that city ordinance over arches any association rules. As such, the city ordinances take priority. Both SD and LB are essentially deferring to the city for any enforcement (of city ordinance). LB is restating the city ordinance and it is probably a stronger position than in the past. However, the city has indicated that enforcement is based upon complaints only.



The issue for associations such as SD and LB is that when a property is rented, the owner is not around to deal with issues. All problems become the responsibility of the board and property manager. Essentially, the community bears the cost of the rental and the individual reaps the benefit.



Some renters are terrific, but others feel that they can do whatever they want as they have paid for their vacation. It is a difficult situation as some homeowners do rely on rental income.





Jetskier :cool:



I absolutely agree that all city ordnance’s and law supersede rules and regulations-of any HOA and that is the way it should be. I do not agree that the HOA bares any of the cost of renters and the problems do ultimately fall on the owner not the HOA. There are plenty of rules in place in LB and the sub HOAs in LB so if a tenant had a situation where there was any cost and been paid by the HOA the owner would have to reimburse the said costs. But as I have said in 10 years as a board members of an LB sub HOA we had renters and never had this situation.




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[Woodsy]

Ultimately.... the signal from Laconia (and probably most other towns) is pretty clear. You can fly under the radar and we don't care. If you pop up on our radar due to a complaint, the party is over.

What I would like to see is what the ZBA does in an area like the Weirs, as it is zoned CR not residential.


Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

https://www.laconianh.gov/255/Zoning-Maps : Click on the zoning map link at the top, and it shows bright yellow for the Weirs Beach residential waterfront area just to the north of The Pier, as well as to the south of the weirs channel.

Isn't the yellow for shore front residential, and the red is for commercial, so's most of the Weirs single family homes could have their Air-bnb shut down with a nosy neighbor's single phone call complaint about short term renters making too much whoopie or something?

Hellooooooo Laconia-911 ....... this is nosy neighbors John & Jane Doe over at 123 Serenity Ave ..... and the short term renters next door are way out of control ...... they are simply having tooooo much fun .....and we cannot stand it ...... any more ........ puh-lease ...... what can we do here?

.............. ...... :banana::cheers::banana:

[jetskier]

Hi Joey2665,

Some years back I was in the Gables and renters completely trashed the pool area (broken glass on the deck, smashed the chairs etc...). The home owner did not deal with the issue. Just an example.

There are great renters and poor renters. Some homeowners are great about vetting their renters and others are not. The other problem is many renters just don't know the rules or (in some cases, care). We have had renters show up to the beach with floatation devices that you can land an air craft carrier on...small beach, not cool.

When there are issues or complaints, it ends up in a call to security, the management company or the board. I know that there are a lot of homeowners in LB very much against rentals because of issues and this has been a discussion at the board level. The other complexity is that it is extremely hard to know who should be in the community and who should not. This makes it difficult for security etc...

As I previously said, at some level the motivation of people renting and those owning in communities like LB and SD become at odds. There are only so many nice summer days to enjoy.

So, the way it stands now if someone is going to rent it is their responsibility to make sure that their renters don't cause an issue that is going to cause someone to complain to the city. The city is the only enforcement entity in this regard. So, this becomes a self correcting situation.

Just my 2 cents.
Bruce




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[Major]

Instead of short term rentals, maybe the owners should open boarding houses. Interesting articles in the Daily Sun.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/rooming-houses-provide-affordable-but-controversial-option/article_622f8be2-2022-11e9-abd5-97cb33670d60.html

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/hope-for-rent-union-avenue-boarding-house-offers-tenants-a/article_6401aa9c-201b-11e9-995e-e30c0cb8e394.html

In all seriousness, as taxpayers, why are we investing in downtown Laconia when these types of "investments" are being encouraged by our City leaders and our media? The City is desperate for growth, and has encouraged Section 8 housing, drug rehab centers, and now boarding houses. This is okay, but why are we even considering investing in downtown, like the Colonial Theater or the WOW Trail?

[Kamper]

I have to pay my taxes. They can pay theirs. In this case though, it's the renters who are supposed to pay and the home-owner is simply a collecting agent.

[8gv]

Maybe take down the weed flag for 5 minutes while you get your picture taken for the newspaper?

That picture does not advance their cause.




https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/hope-for-rent-union-avenue-boarding-house-offers-tenants-a/article_6401aa9c-201b-11e9-995e-e30c0cb8e394.html

[jetskier]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/city-to-take-closer-look-at-short-term-rental-regulations/article_139935f6-240e-11e9-af20-67a72f509f7c.html

[TiltonBB]

All of this attention because of an insignificant number of complaints.

The officials are once again talking about more regulation and expense to both the homeowner and the city. They suggest fire inspections and a local party to call if there is a parking or noise violation. Don't those parking and noise laws already exist? Isn't the police department capable of handling a noise or parking complaint?

We don't need more regulation in the "Live Free or Die" state.

[joey2665]

All of this attention because of an insignificant number of complaints.



The officials are once again talking about more regulation and expense to both the homeowner and the city. They suggest fire inspections and a local party to call if there is a parking or noise violation. Don't those parking and noise laws already exist? Isn't the police department capable of handling a noise or parking complaint?



We don't need more regulation in the "Live Free or Die" state.



Tilton is correct. We do not need more regulations the system is in place. In my experience I find long term renters in the area have caused more damage and more issues than the short term renters who tend to be more family oriented and there to enjoy the region.

Also isn’t this an opportunity for the state to charge short term renters the occupancy tax that hotel/motel patrons pay, which means more revenue? I also do not think this will have a great effect on the local hotels and motels as short term renters like to have the efficiencies of a home with full kitchen amenities and privacy which in turn means more visitors and more revenue for businesses and the government


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[greeleyhill]

Spot on. A very high percentage of the short term rentals in the area are managed and run the right way. For folks who are responsible and vet their renters thoroughly, they should be allowed to continue renting their property. Good for them - they've invested in Laconia real estate and are bringing business into the area...and Laconia definitely needs it! Most guests are families, in many cases, multi-generational, who are looking to rent a home and have all the amenities of home on their family vacation - not a stay at an old/dated and crowded hotel in the summer. Hotel options are very limited. If however, there are repeat offenders who rent their homes out as 'party homes', or allow 20 people to stay in a 2 bedroom home causing parking, noise and trash issues for the neighborhood then there should be a way for the town to step in and impose a heavy fine. I'm really just not a fan of the current stance which seems to be one complaint equals a ban from renting. Seems a bit heavy handed and "un-New Hampshire -like". Final point - what does the mandatory inspection process accomplish? Not sure that solves for noise, trash and parking issues.

[TiltonBB]

The Laconia Daily Sun:

Marc Burrell complained to the City Council last week about any efforts to regulate short-term Airbnb-type rentals:

“If you start regulating people and start wanting to charge to come in and inspect my house, I’m just going to stop doing it. If I feel that way, how many other people feel that way? This is a tourist town. It’s always had rentals. Now with the age of the Internet, people from all over the world come here. To start regulating it because of one or two people, you are just going to lose it. It brings a lot of revenue into this town.”

[Woodsy]

AirBnb & VRBO are great business ideas... they just need to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

Operate in the proper zone... pay the room & meals tax... pay the income tax...

Woodsy

[exlakesregioner]

AirBnb & VRBO are great business ideas... they just need to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

Operate in the proper zone... pay the room & meals tax... pay the income tax...

Woodsy

Best quote ever!! Love it that just because we have the internet everyone should be able to do what they want. Kinda like the same deal with Uber and Lyft, for years taxi companies have had to pay $$$ for the right to do business (esp at airports) and now anyone can do it without the regs? Was always don't meet strangers from the internet, it's not safe, never get into a strangers car, it's not safe...now just call from an APP and get into a car with a stranger!!

[Biggd]

Best quote ever!! Love it that just because we have the internet everyone should be able to do what they want. Kinda like the same deal with Uber and Lyft, for years taxi companies have had to pay $$$ for the right to do business (esp at airports) and now anyone can do it without the regs? Was always don't meet strangers from the internet, it's not safe, never get into a strangers car, it's not safe...now just call from an APP and get into a car with a stranger!!I'm not sure a taxi is any safer. Bottom line, always be aware of your surroundings. :look:

[Woodsy]

Interesting take. NYC is def hostile to AirBnb....... Kind of takes the "tourist area" out of the argument.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/tech/airbnb-subpoena-new-york-city/index.html

Woodsy

[TiltonBB]

The Laconia Sun has an article with the Mayor's idea of someone needing the approval of neighbors before they can rent out their house.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/mayor-suggests-new-rules-for-short-term-rentals/article_73b3ffce-44f8-11e9-94c0-57f3484b125f.html

The City's thought process fails to take into account the financial contribution of short term visitors. From shopping and dining to boat rentals there is a lot of money spent in the area. And, many of those visitors enjoy the area enough that they come back year after year and some even move here and buy a house.

I have a rental house on the lake and about 50% of the summer is taken every year by repeat visitors. I live next door and I notice how often they go shopping and come back with bags of groceries, clothing, or water toys for their kids. Many times they tell me about local restaurants they have found. Their shopping and spending helps keep local businesses going and local people working.

I have one neighbor who complains about everything, and it has nothing to do with renting or tenants. The people I bought that house from many years ago also had years of problems with the same neighbor and they never rented the house. I would hate to think that one person with a bad attitude could determine whether the renting could continue.

The city is making a big deal about isolated problems. We have noise regulations, parking regulations, and many other laws that help to enable people to live peacefully. If there are violations of current laws then address those violations. We don't need more rules and regulations and we don't need government increasing their reach into our lives.

[WinnisquamZ]

So will the neighbor that rejects a rental have to be identified? Appears to open up a case of harassment


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[Biggd]

The Laconia Sun has an article with the Mayor's idea of someone needing the approval of neighbors before they can rent out their house.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/mayor-suggests-new-rules-for-short-term-rentals/article_73b3ffce-44f8-11e9-94c0-57f3484b125f.html

The City's thought process fails to take into account the financial contribution of short term visitors. From shopping and dining to boat rentals there is a lot of money spent in the area. And, many of those visitors enjoy the area enough that they come back year after year and some even move here and buy a house.

I have a rental house on the lake and about 50% of the summer is taken every year by repeat visitors. I live next door and I notice how often they go shopping and come back with bags of groceries, clothing, or water toys for their kids. Many times they tell me about local restaurants they have found. Their shopping and spending helps keep local businesses going and local people working.

I have one neighbor who complains about everything, and it has nothing to do with renting or tenants. The people I bought that house from many years ago also had years of problems with the same neighbor and they never rented the house. I would hate to think that one person with a bad attitude could determine whether the renting could continue.

The city is making a big deal about isolated problems. We have noise regulations, parking regulations, and many other laws that help to enable people to live peacefully. If there are violations of current laws then address those violations. We don't need more rules and regulations and we don't need government increasing their reach into our lives.There always one grumpy old man that hates everyone and everything in a neighborhood. We also have one in ours. I was warned ahead of time. I'm new to my neighborhood, 5 years now, and I've already caught his attention. Some people are just born to be miserable. :rolleye1:

[WinnisquamZ]

Agree, however, they also have the right to enjoy their space without being harassed by others. In my opinion If the city decides to identify these individuals they are making a mistake by putting neighbors vs neighbors


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[iw8surf]

I’ve totally forgotten what it’s like to “live free” in NH in this last decade..

[Biggd]

I’ve totally forgotten what it’s like to “live free” in NH in this last decade..There is no such thing as "live free", never has been.

[tis]

Unfortunately, Biggd, you are right!!

[Biggd]

Unfortunately, Biggd, you are right!!If you are getting something for free it may be free to you but it's being paid for by someone else.

[tis]

LOL, Bigg, you are right! But I think in this case, he is talking about FREEDOM not free things. As in the freedom to do what you want with your own property...:laugh::laugh: WE don't own our property anymore. If we ever did.

[Biggd]

LOL, Bigg, you are right! But I think in this case, he is talking about FREEDOM not free things. As in the freedom to do what you want with your own property...:laugh::laugh: WE don't own our property anymore. If we ever did.We are all free to live in the USA as long as we pay all our bills. Even when you die someone has to pay the tab that you left behind!
Of course, if you don't pay your bills you go to jail and get free room and board. Then the rest of us have to pay the tab. :D Someone always pays, that's FREEDOM!

[tis]

Yep and in this case if you want to rent your property out you might or might not be able to!!!

[Red apple]

Oh you can rent it out....Until one person complains and yes they can do this anonymously and then you get a letter from Laconia saying to to cease and desist all rentals or you will be charged $250.00 per day. Actually not bad if your getting $10k a week! Then you can apply to go in front of the zoning board but good luck with them as they have shown there is no way to show a hardship for them to allow a rezoning. Its only a matter of time before someone with deep pockets hires the right attorney and finds a loophole to make this work. As far as state and local room taxes yes these should and need to be in forced. But now who is cheeking the home for safety items, bed bugs and everything else that hotel and motels get checked for?

[Woodsy]

I have no problem with short term rentals in places like the Weirs, where families have rented out their properties 2-3 weeks a year to help pay the taxes. it is 1-2 weeks a year and has been going on forever...

But....

The AirBNB/VRBO model is a business model. People (sorry TiltonBB) should not be buying houses in residential areas and running them like unlicensed no tell motels. This has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood... higher rents as commercial landlords take long-term housing off the market to cash in on more lucrative short-term rental opportunities, loss of revenue for legitimate, regulated hotels/motels. Loss of tax income (both room & meals & business) for the state & city etc etc....

The the AirBnb/VRBO landlords cite existing laws regarding noise, parking etc as adequate protection for neighborhood. But we also have existing laws regulating short term rentals on the books... that is the law that the AirBNB/VRBO folks want to forget exists. This law is just as important as the noise & parking ordinances and also exists to protect the neighborhood.

Woodsy

[TiltonBB]

Woodsy: No apology necessary, we can still be friends!

The problem with leaving most of it to the hotels and motels is that may not be the type of place families are looking for. Many families want the home experience from the kids sleeping in their "own" bedrooms to grilling and family dinners at the kitchen table.

In some situations, the atmosphere from a shared beach at a motel may not be what a family is looking for and by afternoon, with a lot of alcohol involved, it may present an unhealthy situation for children.

Many families get together and rent a home that will fit all of them and it would be cost prohibitive, and not provide the family experience they are looking for, at a motel. They can rent a house that sleeps the whole family for less than the cost of several motel rooms.

The contention that it has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood has not been my experience. On my street alone I am aware of several summer weekly rentals. Both from the street, and from the water, you would have no idea the property was not occupied by the owners.

I know of three local agencies that together rent over 300 waterfront homes as weekly rentals. I have used them. They take a commission and collect and pay the rooms and meals tax to the state.

One physician that rented my home called me after his vacation. It was his family's first time on the lake and they liked it so much they asked for a realtor recommendation to help them find a house. They bought a waterfront in Meredith.

We have all probably had difficult and noisy neighbors at one time or another. You have a good chance of having a neighbor whose conduct and noise you don't approve of. You have to live with it or make complaints to whatever local authority has jurisdiction and that neighbor may be there 52 weeks a year. In the event someone in your neighborhood rents to a problem tenant, they are gone in a week.

My situation may be different but I do not use AirBnB or similar sites, and I will not rent to anyone that I have not talked to first.

[pault842]

Woodsy: No apology necessary, we can still be friends!

The problem with leaving most of it to the hotels and motels is that may not be the type of place families are looking for. Many families want the home experience from the kids sleeping in their "own" bedrooms to grilling and family dinners at the kitchen table.

In some situations, the atmosphere from a shared beach at a motel may not be what a family is looking for and by afternoon, with a lot of alcohol involved, it may present an unhealthy situation for children.

Many families get together and rent a home that will fit all of them and it would be cost prohibitive, and not provide the family experience they are looking for, at a motel. They can rent a house that sleeps the whole family for less than the cost of several motel rooms.

The contention that it has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood has not been my experience. On my street alone I am aware of several summer weekly rentals. Both from the street, and from the water, you would have no idea the property was not occupied by the owners.

I know of three local agencies that together rent over 300 waterfront homes as weekly rentals. I have used them. They take a commission and collect and pay the rooms and meals tax to the state.

One physician that rented my home called me after his vacation. It was his family's first time on the lake and they liked it so much they asked for a realtor recommendation to help them find a house. They bought a waterfront in Meredith.

We have all probably had difficult and noisy neighbors at one time or another. You have a good chance of having a neighbor whose conduct and noise you don't approve of. You have to live with it or make complaints to whatever local authority has jurisdiction and that neighbor may be there 52 weeks a year. In the event someone in your neighborhood rents to a problem tenant, they are gone in a week.

My situation may be different but I do not use AirBnB or similar sites, and I will not rent to anyone that I have not talked to first.

I have both rented my vacation home, in the past, and rented vacation homes in several different parts of the country over the years, that said if I was asked to vote on it at a town meeting, I'd vote it down for residential neighborhoods. Just my $.02.

[Riviera]

Looks like they are cracking down on rental homes in Laconia.

There are many arguments to this debate. You have to look at some of the old/new assumptions:

1. Zoning. Zoning was established to assure that reasonably compatible land uses were/are located in contiguous geographic locations. As an extreme example, the goal was to avoid having a commercial junk yard located next to a permanent single family residence. As zoning evolved, the land uses were further segregated, such that uses akin to apartment buildings, or resort buildings, were/are not allowed next to single family residences.

2. Single Family Zoning. Many years ago, most communities developed a zone (or zones) that allow for "single family residential" zoning. Historically, the properties in these zones were utilized as "single family - owner occupied", or less commonly, "single family - monthly/yearly lease". Prior to such technology as AirBNB, it was rare that a property in a single family zoning district would be rented on a short term weekly or daily basis.

3. Zoning Purpose. The purpose of zoning was to allow property owners to purchase property in a location where they could have a reasonable expectation as to the neighboring uses. Very few people would want to establish permanent residency next to a junkyard. Zoning is a mechanism that allows a property buyer a reasonable expectation as to what sort of neighboring use they might expect. (Remember, nobody can pick their neighbor!)

4. Zoning Argument. At one extreme, there is, and always will be, a % of the population that will argue that their individual property rights should not be encumbered by zoning. That said, most people have a fundamental belief in zoning, even if they don't believe in the specific zoning ordinances that might encumber their own property.

5. Current Technology. The advent of websites such as AirBnB allows for the relatively simple marketing/purchasing of short term (weekly/daily) rentals in areas that previously saw few, if any, short term rentals. In some instances, these short term rentals are occurring in "single family" zoning districts that have not seen any short term rental (and little long term rental) use in years past.

6. A "Neighborhood" Perspective. People that live in most residentially zoned neighborhoods look at it from the perspective of their own personal home. Most of us (not all of us) live in an area that has, historically, been occupied by long term owners, or long term rentals. Most people are not accustomed to having their neighbors change on a weekly basis. For many people, the stability of neighboring properties allows for a certain degree of presumptive quiet enjoyment.

7. A "Property/Investment" Perspective. In the last couple of years, people are purchasing what has has historically been owner occupied property with a full/partial financial objective. The goal is to recognize a certain return on investment, through short term rental.

8. The Conundrum. A small, but rising, percentage of historically permanent residences in single family zones are being rented/occupied on a shorter term basis. If you buy your dream home in a "single family" zone, should you expect that your neighboring property might be rented to ever changing owners on a weekly/weekend basis? Conversely, if you buy a property in a single family zoned district, that does not have an zoning established minimum rental period, should you be limited in your financial right to rent the property on a short term basis?

There is no perfect answer to the conundrum, but I believe the City of Laconia is going to have a contend with a difficult task. The "it's only a problem if we hear a problem" approach is not going to work. There are too many personalities at stake to fairly implement this interpretation to the current zoning ordinance.

I am of the opinion that Laconia (and every other City with resort type appeal) is going to have to take a harder look at their ordinances, and set definitive allowable rental periods in the various zones. They may even need to expand their zones, allowing for the fact that certain "single family" neighborhoods (ie, Paugus Park .... with tight density single family waterfront) have been more prone to short term rentals in the past, and therefore may be more appropriate for short term rentals in the future. Conversely, I think that there should be other single family residential areas with tight restrictions on short term rentals, such that those buyers seeking a more stable occupied neighborhood, can buy in such a neighborhood, without the expectation that an adjacent home might be operated on a more commercial, short term basis.

Note that I know there are exceptions to every rule. I am certain that there are well intentioned/proactive owners of AirBnB type residences that can/will assure that their renters will be good neighbors. That said, there are those owners that will not be so proactive, and will create the occasional nuisance to the adjacent permanent residences.

The bottom line is that zoning can't regulate the people/personalities, they can only regulate the use. Communities are going to have to come to grips with the fact that they need to further define their use regulations, allowing for all of the economic and quiet enjoyment variables that go along with zoning ordinances.

My hope is that the officials will see fit to find a way to amend the ordinances, such that they allow some degree of economic benefit from the AirBnB type phenomenon, coupled with a strong commitment to creating stable quiet neighborhoods for long term residents.

No matter what they do, they are going to irritate a lot of people. They just need to look at it with a practical eye, and make the best possible business/political decision for the community.

[Biggd]

I understand both sides of this debate. I know many young people in the investment business that buy homes all around the country just to rent out. To these people it's just an investment. All they care about is ROI at the end of the year. These are the kind of neighbors you don't want.

I have an acquaintance that rents a large waterfront home on Winni every year with 2 other families with teen age children. They have to rent something big because there is usually about 12 to 15 people staying there and at times they could have as many as 25. They pay big bucks, around 10K a week, and they are usually asked not to come back because of neighbor complaints. But they still seem to find a new place to rent every year. He told me there are quite a few places on the water that have been bought by groups of investers just looking to rent out.
This is the sad part of property value appreciation. You have a lot of people that are buying just as an investment. There is no pride of ownership with these purchases.

[TiltonBB]

There are also companies like Inspirato that own luxury homes all over the world and rent them out. It requires a membership in Inspirato. I know someone who rented a house on Nantucket last summer and a week was $56,000. Not in my world!

https://www.inspirato.com/

I know every situation is different. I live next door to my rental house so if there are unruly or problem tenants I know right away. Since 2003 I have only had two groups that I would not rent to again because of their conduct. And, as soon as I knew it was a problem I was there addressing it. I know not every rental house situation is like that.

One thing that does filter out the problem tenants is the price of admission. It is not cheap to rent a house on the lake. I have had rental property (mostly not on the lake) since 1978 and my experience is that the higher the rent, the better caliber of the tenant.

[TiltonBB]

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

[birchhaven]

This is an issue all over the country and the rest of the lakes/mountains in NH. With all of Laconia's issues and they have a lot. Also the fact Laconia never seems to get anything right. Why are they trying to lead? No city has really come up with a good solution for this, Laconia should try and keep there head down so to speak. There is no way they are going to come up with the perfect solution that every city in the world is looking for, they are just going to either piss off a lot of people and/or devalue a bunch of properties. They are making the issue bigger than it is IMHO and should have just stayed out of the debate.

[gokart-mozart]

I have both rented my vacation home, in the past, and rented vacation homes in several different parts of the country over the years, that said if I was asked to vote on it at a town meeting, I'd vote it down for residential neighborhoods. Just my $.02.

There's another angle to this excellent discussion I would like to bring up.

I live all year round in a lakeside development. I have small children and I am as sensitive as anyone to neighbor quality.

I have never experienced an issue with short-term summer renters of my neighbors' properties. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe the $$ barrier helps with tenant quality.

On the other hand, rental of these properties for September-May (off season) tenancies has caused problems, some of them big problems, at least half the time. Maybe you get a teacher who is trying out the job and the area, but maybe you get small-time or not-so-small time drug operations or other noxious and potentially dangerous activities.

[Descant]

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?

[iw8surf]

I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?

Off topic but a year back I went electric leaf blower, weed whacker and lawnmower for my smallish yard. I mow at 6 am now if I want, its almost silent! No more waking up the neighbors aha

[greeleyhill]

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?

[joey2665]

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.


So many questions. I wish I was smarter!

With the City of Laconia I would definitely not make that assumption. Especially since this is relatively new. I do know that many HOA's in the area do not allow business of any type to be run out of homes but the city itself does allow certain types of business to be run from the home. I inquired several years ago and I know I am allowing to run my CPA practice out of my home in Laconia but later found out my HOA does not allow it.

[Rusty]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/fourth-time-a-charm-for-short-term-rentals/article_2f820b7c-4a82-11e9-8e58-9ba9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

[joey2665]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/fourth-time-a-charm-for-short-term-rentals/article_2f820b7c-4a82-11e9-8e58-9ba9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

Not a fan of the new proposal that would allow rentals in certain areas but would "require approval on neighbors". It should be its allowed or not. You cannot leave it up to neighbors to decide if someone can or can't rent. It's like opening Pandora's box. If someone is disgruntled for unrelated issues they can just vote no

[Red apple]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/fourth-time-a-charm-for-short-term-rentals/article_2f820b7c-4a82-11e9-8e58-9ba9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.

OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.

[joey2665]

OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.

And the end result we will all lose. I believe you are correct, someone with deep pockets will sue and the Laconia's legal fees to defend will be astronomical.

[TiltonBB]

A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.

The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/off-street-parking-required-under-draft-short-term-rental-rules/article_296c7294-91e1-11e9-9a0b-c76b9547f675.html

[joey2665]

A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.



The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.



https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/off-street-parking-required-under-draft-short-term-rental-rules/article_296c7294-91e1-11e9-9a0b-c76b9547f675.html



Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Redbarn]

Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

NH already has the Meals and Rentals Tax of 9%. So this would be more similar to Key West where you pay the state tax and the local tax.

The huge difference is a renter just needs to go to another town the lake to avoid the Laconia Tax. Remember this is a town that already has property taxes out of control so owners are already passing on what the market will bare of those property Taxes.


Just so we all understand what a renter pays now in fees (I can tell you first hand the market is having a hard time bearing it).

A HomeAway/VRBO fee to the home owner, is $500 per year, plus fees on every rental that vary.

The renter pays, up to $499 in home away fees plus 9% NH rentals tax, plus most places have a cleaning fee, possible other fees.

The total fees being charged to an owner and renter on a property that is ~$4500+ rental (pretty typical for a week on the lake) is an extra $1000 being shared between the owner and renter.

The result is many homeowners have has to reduce pricing slightly. Now, let us add another local tax, why would anyone rent in Laconia when they can go one town over and avoid that fee.

The result will be a potential property buyer will weight this in their decision-making process even if they don't plan to rent but like the option. They will either pay less for the property in Laconia or just elsewhere.

This applies to the entire city.

Sorry for my terrible grammer.

[nitrovandam]

What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?

FOUR ( 4 ) What if's....... Typical Liberal ****. Try speaking the truths not the WHAT IF'S. You voted these liberals in, You know how they work. Tax Tax tax, and now you are complaining about it. LOL. Don't like it, Move back to the state you came from. Oops, sorry , forgot, it's even worse in your home state.
Love Love Love to see this happening. You vote these Democrats in, you get to deal with their Rath. Within a few years, NH will be as bad or worse as Mass, RI, Conn and NY. Guess you guys will fit right in then huh.

Please carry on now to RUIN NEW HAMPSHIRE even more.

[Woodsy]

I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


Woodsy

[Redbarn]

I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


Woodsy

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

[Red apple]

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

Well if I read it correctly if you as the "landlord" have three complaints against you or any of your renters you loose the right to rent. This is GREAT like I said from the start of this thread the city is leaving it up to your neighbors to decide if you can rent of not.. Look at Lake Opechee as there have been two cases if not more that have gone to the city for VRBO and have loss due to neighbors complaining and both of them have sold there homes. Have also heard of of more cases or Air B&B in the area going down the same road as neighbors are fed up with them also. So at the end of the day the City of Laconia will make some extra money in fees and the neighbors will have the final say if you rent of not. Start paying off your neighbors if you want to rent!!!

[Redbarn]

I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?

[Red apple]

I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?
I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.

[joey2665]

I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.

Improbably erroneously assumed since it was not in the article that they were taking that portion out. As I stated in posts above you cannot let neighbors decide if a homeowner can or cannot short term rent their home or the obvious reasons like disgruntled neighbors ect.... Also I believe the short term renters are much more behaved than long term renters which would not be subject to this proposal at all.

[Woodsy]

I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.

There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

Woodsy

Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.

[nitrovandam]

The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong.


LOL And what party runs NY and San Fran and Laconia? Are ya seeing a pattern here? Hence the DOWNFALL of The once great state of New Hampshire.
Carry on now, see what else you can ruin.:laugh::patriot:

[Woodsy]

Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.

If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

Woodsy

As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.

[Woodsy]

As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.

Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

Woodsy

[Redbarn]

Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

Woodsy

Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.

You keep pulling me back in haha. I don't care to comment anymore but you below post references boarding/rooming/lodging and then cites the hotel definition. All well and good but again you are mixing the current argument about the need for a variance in downtown and the need for this new thing in the current article. Hotels etc are permitted in for example the weirs. I also disagree with your view on the definition and There are work arounds. There is going be a lot of issues created from this in the weirs that did not existed before due to this. They should have left it alone.

[Woodsy]

Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.

Sorry RedBarn.....

I get that you don't like it... However, Short Term Rentals is ABSOLUTELY the same as Boarding/Rooming/Lodging category used by the City.

NH RSA on the matter....

78-A:3 Definitions
III. "Hotel" means an establishment which holds itself out to the public by offering sleeping accommodations for rent, whether or not the major portion of its operating receipts is derived from sleeping accommodations. The term includes, but is not limited to, inns, motels, tourist homes and cabins, ski dormitories, ski lodges, lodging homes, rooming houses, furnished room houses, boarding houses, private clubs, hostels, cottages, camps, chalets, barracks, dormitories, and apartments.VII. "Permanent resident" means any occupant who has occupied any room in a hotel for at least 185 consecutive days. (i.e. short term = 184 or less) (motor vehicles are 180 days or less)

Here the proposal going to the full City Council & Planning board...

Woodsy

[nitrovandam]

I'm not sure a taxi is any safer. Bottom line, always be aware of your surroundings. :look:

I am and do. LOL, that's why I'm leaving. KA-BOOM !!! Carry on, Please complete you task of Ruining NH. ;)

[laketrout]

I have had properties In Both Southdown and Long Bay and for a time both. July 4th week I saw many renters in Long Bay and SDS from what a friend told me South Down still has many renters. One was my neighbors house, I Said hello and it took me a few minutes and the man told me they were renting for the week. Nice folks no issues they are quieter then some of my full time neighbors. I am guessing they were relatives of the owners. Wink wink..How do you enforce or investigate that? So we now pit neighbor against neighbor in The Im Going to rat you out for renting saga.
With high taxes I’m sure the owner is trying to cover part of his taxes or Hoa’s fees. I do not rent my property out, = this is another unenforceable law and don’t we have bigger fish to fry with all the issues plaguing our cities and towns? The city of Laconia should spend a more time coming up with a Master plan for the Weirs Beach area which has languished for decades without any clear vision or direction of what it could be.

[garysanfran]

My neighbor (full-time resident) had 24 guests in a two bedroom house for four days. Well behaved and quieter than I was expecting. But, I would not want it all summer (or for another four days). You may be able to enforce control on short-term renters if they violate their agreement. However, I have no control, nor agreement, with my full-time neighbors, unless it gets really out-of-control... Then my relationship with them would be ruined forever.

I would imagine there are no rules regarding over night guests in one's home.

[TiltonBB]

It looks like Laconia officials may be softening their position on short term rentals. However, the Mayor continues to drive the discussion against them.

I disagree with his opinion that short term rentals are almost always a negative. This whole discussion is because of a few isolated incidents with problem properties

He also states that he wants to return to families in neighborhoods with more kids playing in the streets. If that is his goal here is what will help: Take away the Iphones, disconnect the cable TV, and shut off the computers. I am not advocating that but the Mayor seems to wish to go back to the 50's and 60's and that is not going to happen.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/short-term-lodging-regs-could-hamstring-winni-playhouse/article_9d3e01ca-0bcf-11ea-bb98-675b3bcaeb3b.html

[joey2665]

Correct Tilton: it’s always a couple of rotten apples that spoil it for everyone and then the government takes overreaching drastic measures.

I’d love to see kids with less tech time and more outside time but that is a tough one. Best thing to do is keep your kids active in sports and creative activities playing in the street is just a fond memory


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[TiltonBB]

On Monday the City of Laconia made the mistake of passing short term rental regulations. It can only hurt the local economy. It may be the last mistake of the outgoing Mayor. But no worries, the new Mayor will make a lot of mistakes too!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/mayor-breaks-tie-to-approve-short-term-rental-rules/article_ba5d6d66-1b8a-11ea-8cf2-87a4df3b5940.html

[joey2665]

I agree TiltonBB. THIS IS A HUGE MISTAKE!! extremely overbearing regulations. This will hurt the economy and could lower property values for investment property’s not in the Weir’s.


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[WinnisquamZ]

I agree with the vote to regulate short term rentals. Enforcement of the regulations maybe difficult but it gives neighbors of these units something to fall back on when issues arise. If more was done by the property owners when those “bad apples” were identified it would not of had to come to this. Your anger should be directed at the absence owners not the city council who are protecting the majority of property owners in the city


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[Woodsy]

I agree TiltonBB. THIS IS A HUGE MISTAKE!! extremely overbearing regulations. This will hurt the economy and could lower property values for investment property’s not in the Weir’s.


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I don't agree that this will hurt the economy or cause a loss of property value. This regulation will do exactly what is intended... right or wrong, it will slow down investment owners who are just looking to make a quick unregulated buck buying up housing property for the sole purpose of airbnb/vrbo.

I do think that waterfront property should have been exempted...

Woodsy

[joey2665]

I agree with the vote to regulate short term rentals. Enforcement of the regulations maybe difficult but it gives neighbors of these units something to fall back on when issues arise. If more was done by the property owners when those “bad apples” were identified it would not of had to come to this. Your anger should be directed at the absence owners not the city council who are protecting the majority of property owners in the city


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I believe the whole situation was overblown by a very few bad apples and a couple of annoyed neighbors. A complete overreaction by the government as usual.


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[joey2665]

I don't agree that this will hurt the economy or cause a loss of property value. This regulation will do exactly what is intended... right or wrong, it will slow down investment owners who are just looking to make a quick unregulated buck buying up housing property for the sole purpose of airbnb/vrbo.

I do think that waterfront property should have been exempted...

Woodsy

But you said it in your post. “ slow down investment owners” which in turn reduces demand and lowers values. Investors are willing to pay a little more if they can get a good ROI.

Short term renters are not renting in downtown Laconia or anywhere that is a good distance from the lake.

Also what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

You cannot limit you just water front, what if you have a view or are walking distance from the lake etc that opens Pandora’s box.


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[FlyingScot]

But you said it in your post. “ slow down investment owners” which in turn reduces demand and lowers values. Investors are willing to pay a little more if they can get a good ROI.

Short term renters are not renting in downtown Laconia or anywhere that is a good distance from the lake.

Also what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

You cannot limit you just water front, what if you have a view or are walking distance from the lake etc that opens Pandora’s box.


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Paradoxically, a huge number of lakefront owners do not benefit from increased property values. Increased values are great when a person sells, but if your property is going to be in the family for decades or generations, the higher price tag does nothing until that day arrives far into the future, or your kids' or grandkids' future. In the meantime, as many have pointed out on other threads, higher lakefront property values (relative to non lakefront) increase property taxes every year.

[joey2665]

Paradoxically, a huge number of lakefront owners do not benefit from increased property values. Increased values are great when a person sells, but if your property is going to be in the family for decades or generations, the higher price tag does nothing until that day arrives far into the future, or your kids' or grandkids' future. In the meantime, as many have pointed out on other threads, higher lakefront property values (relative to non lakefront) increase property taxes every year.

I think you are correct for Island Owners and maybe if it was 20+ years ago but I do not think newer owners (non Island) in the area are apt to pass along property as in previous generations.


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[WinnisquamZ]

For those wishing to rent or invest in the lakes region there many other towns that don’t have the regulations Laconia just passed. Also, your ROI will be greater due to lower overhead costs in those towns


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[Biggd]

For those wishing to rent or invest in the lakes region there many other towns that don’t have the regulations Laconia just passed. Also, your ROI will be greater due to lower overhead costs in those towns


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)That's been one of the driving forces that is benefiting surrounding towns. Keep up the good work Laconia. :confused:

[Woodsy]

But you said it in your post. “ slow down investment owners” which in turn reduces demand and lowers values. Investors are willing to pay a little more if they can get a good ROI.

Short term renters are not renting in downtown Laconia or anywhere that is a good distance from the lake.

Also whatÂ’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

You cannot limit you just water front, what if you have a view or are walking distance from the lake etc that opens PandoraÂ’s box.


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You are mistaken on several issues...

The City of Laconia suffers from a lack of affordable housing and this stifles the economic growth of the city. If investors continue to buy up the existing affordable housing stock with airbnb/vrbo business plans, this problem will never be resolved.


There are airbnb/vrbo rentals all over the city. They are the reason for these strict rules. A lot of these rentals are in family neighborhoods. I would argue that an airbnb/vrbo next door would lower my property value. Nobody wants to live next to an unregulated no tell motel party house in a residential neighborhood.

You most certainly can exempt waterfront property from the airbnb ordinance. You can make exceptions for DEEDED water access as well. No exemption for water views should be allowed.

Woodsy

[iw8surf]

You are mistaken on several issues...

The City of Laconia suffers from a lack of affordable housing and this stifles the economic growth of the city. If investors continue to buy up the existing affordable housing stock with airbnb/vrbo business plans, this problem will never be resolved.


There are airbnb/vrbo rentals all over the city. They are the reason for these strict rules. A lot of these rentals are in family neighborhoods. I would argue that an airbnb/vrbo next door would lower my property value. Nobody wants to live next to an unregulated no tell motel party house in a residential neighborhood.

You most certainly can exempt waterfront property from the airbnb ordinance. You can make exceptions for DEEDED water access as well. No exemption for water views should be allowed.

Woodsy

I would much rather live next to an Air-BnB (my current neighbor on the lake rents his house every week of the summer) then some of the characters I lived next to when I previously lived in Laconia.

5 years running never had a single issue with the neighbors renters.
2 years spent in Laconia my place was broken into twice, my car window were broken once and the last straw was things were stolen from my boat which sealed the deal on Laconia for me..

[Woodsy]

I would much rather live next to an Air-BnB (my current neighbor on the lake rents his house every week of the summer) then some of the characters I lived next to when I previously lived in Laconia.

5 years running never had a single issue with the neighbors renters.
2 years spent in Laconia my place was broken into twice, my car window were broken once and the last straw was things were stolen from my boat which sealed the deal on Laconia for me..

There is good/bad everywhere! Laconia has many issues besides airbnb/vrbo.

What happens when the airbnb/vrbo market saturates and prices drop?

Woodsy

[joey2665]

You are mistaken on several issues...

The City of Laconia suffers from a lack of affordable housing and this stifles the economic growth of the city. If investors continue to buy up the existing affordable housing stock with airbnb/vrbo business plans, this problem will never be resolved.


There are airbnb/vrbo rentals all over the city. They are the reason for these strict rules. A lot of these rentals are in family neighborhoods. I would argue that an airbnb/vrbo next door would lower my property value. Nobody wants to live next to an unregulated no tell motel party house in a residential neighborhood.

You most certainly can exempt waterfront property from the airbnb ordinance. You can make exceptions for DEEDED water access as well. No exemption for water views should be allowed.

Woodsy

Sorry as an investor in the area and some to be full time resident in July we will have to agree to disagree.

Short term vacationers do not want to rent downtown or anywhere that is not a decent neighborhood and too far from the lake.

In most vacation areas such as Florida, Vermont ect where short term rentals are more prevalent it actually helps the property value not reduce it as as stated brings in investors and helps the economy.

I do not think it would be far to limit to certain areas people should be allowed to maximize their investment if they so choose.

Again this is an overextension of government regulations that were an overreaction to a very few isolated incident.

[Red apple]

So they passed this now what...Anyone that lives in there home more than 150 days a year (good luck to the city proving you do not) and wants to rent under 14 days at a time needs to register with the city. Lets see how that goes and how many actually do this and if they do will they pass? I know that some that I know of are in lower levels of homes and people made a "bedroom" but the the room does not have a large enough window to meet today building codes for egress so will that pass??. Next if you have this type of a rental home next to you and do not want it as you live in a residential area the way it is written (or was) just need to have three legitimate complaints whether it is noise, people on your property, parking etc, etc....and then the town will issue a cease and desist and they can no longer rent and that home and that will stay with the property even when it is sold. So why even pass this law as before this it was the same way and the city only got involved when there was issues and then issued a cease and desist.. Seams like a lot ow work was done in the city on this but the outcome was not worth the time.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Short term vacationers do not want to rent downtown or anywhere that is not a decent neighborhood and too far from the lake.


This simply isn't true. I have firsthand knowledge of many short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods not located near the lake in Laconia.

I live in a residential neighborhood in a bordering town and have a short-term rental exposure across the street from my house. Just like anything, there are good renters and bad renters, just like there are good neighbors and bad neighbors, good boaters and bad boaters, etc. If I had my druthers I'd prefer to not have a short-term rental located across the street from my home, but there are simply too many other things to worry about than to run down to Town Hall and put up a stink about it.

[joey2665]

This simply isn't true. I have firsthand knowledge of many short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods not located near the lake in Laconia.

I live in a residential neighborhood in a bordering town and have a short-term rental exposure across the street from my house. Just like anything, there are good renters and bad renters, just like there are good neighbors and bad neighbors, good boaters and bad boaters, etc. If I had my druthers I'd prefer to not have a short-term rental located across the street from my home, but there are simply too many other things to worry about than to run down to Town Hall and put up a stink about it.

As stated previously I disagree as someone witch investors experience in Laconia, Florida, Pennsylvania North Carolina and Illinois.

Show me actually data that proved valued decline and I will reconsider. Investors again will pay at or above market if they receive there desired ROI


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[Red apple]

This simply isn't true. I have firsthand knowledge of many short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods not located near the lake in Laconia.

I live in a residential neighborhood in a bordering town and have a short-term rental exposure across the street from my house. Just like anything, there are good renters and bad renters, just like there are good neighbors and bad neighbors, good boaters and bad boaters, etc. If I had my druthers I'd prefer to not have a short-term rental located across the street from my home, but there are simply too many other things to worry about than to run down to Town Hall and put up a stink about it.

Fully Agree. We had weekly renters we had next to us were always respectable as they were paying big money for the week. The short term 1-3 night people are just rude and do not respect anything. Now that is just what we and some others dealt with and everyone I am sure has different situations.

[WinnisquamZ]

So they passed this now what...Anyone that lives in there home more than 150 days a year (good luck to the city proving you do not) and wants to rent under 14 days at a time needs to register with the city. Lets see how that goes and how many actually do this and if they do will they pass? I know that some that I know of are in lower levels of homes and people made a "bedroom" but the the room does not have a large enough window to meet today building codes for egress so will that pass??. Next if you have this type of a rental home next to you and do not want it as you live in a residential area the way it is written (or was) just need to have three legitimate complaints whether it is noise, people on your property, parking etc, etc....and then the town will issue a cease and desist and they can no longer rent and that home and that will stay with the property even when it is sold. So why even pass this law as before this it was the same way and the city only got involved when there was issues and then issued a cease and desist.. Seams like a lot ow work was done in the city on this but the outcome was not worth the time.

Enforcement will be one startup issue. If it was me I would inform those renting units they must issue a copy of the city permit with each rental agreement signed. Also, the city should make it known by advertising and other means that permits are required. This would cover some liability if a renter must be removed from a illegal rental unit


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[joey2665]

Enforcement will be one startup issue. If it was me I would inform those renting units they must issue a copy of the city permit with each rental agreement signed. Also, the city should make it known by advertising and other means that permits are required. This would cover some liability if a renter must be removed from a illegal rental unit


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Enforcement, especially by the above standard being set will end up costing the city a fortune. Just what Laconia needs, more negative cash flow.

[Red apple]

Enforcement, especially by the above standard being set will end up costing the city a fortune. Just what Laconia needs, more negative cash flow.
Along with opening them up for lawsuits now... As once permitted and a guest gets hurt and finds a building code violation they will go after the city as well as they homeowner.

[WinnisquamZ]

Along with opening them up for lawsuits now... As once permitted and a guest gets hurt and finds a building code violation they will go after the city as well as they homeowner.



A legal rental must be inspected before a permit is issued. So how would the city be liable for a illegal rental or safety violation? I see the inspection process as a opening of a can of worms. Will the city use this tool as a enforcement for other issues that may arise


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[Red apple]

A legal rental must be inspected before a permit is issued. So how would the city be liable for a illegal rental or safety violation? I see the inspection process as a opening of a can of worms. Will the city use this tool as a enforcement for other issues that may arise


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Clarify- If the city inspects it and issues a permit and then its "legal" now the city can get sued if a renter got hurt. Of course they would need to prove the City is liable but still opening up the city.

[fatlazyless]

From the City of Laconia web site:

www.laconianh.gov/881/Short-Term-Rentals

... includes a link to the rental eligibility rules and home/building inspection procedure that was approved when the mayor cast his tie-breaking vote for a 4-3 approval vote on Tuesday, December 10 ..... just yesterday!

As they used to say about the building inspector's job in Boston, back in the 1970's ...... 'you know the salary stinks, but the pay is great!'

[Biggd]

No one likes government oversight but there are people that will take advantage and bend the rules/laws to their advantage, esp when money is involved. As you can see on this forum everyone has a different view of the situation.
If you just let everyone do what ever they want without oversight then it becomes a free for all.
Just like the Dive, many people like it as long as it's not in their back yard.

[joey2665]

Just like the Dive, many people like it as long as it's not in their back yard.

Not in my case. I have had several neighbors in the past short term rent and I do not have an issue with it. Only once in 8 years did I have a issue and it was taken care of immediately.

As a property owner I do not believe the city has the right to tell me how I can and can't rent my property

[Biggd]

Not in my case. I have had several neighbors in the past short term rent and I do not have an issue with it. Only once in 8 years did I have a issue and it was taken care of immediately.

As a property owner I do not believe the city has the right to tell me how I can and can't rent my propertyI also have a neighbor right across the street from me that rents all summer and I've had no issues in the 5 years I've been there. But I know of others in other areas that have lots of problems. So I see the need for some kind of oversight even though it doesn't affect me personally.
I actually know of some families that rent a large high end house on Winni every summer, $10,000 a week, and they think because they pay so much money they can do what ever they please. They have to find a new place every year because they are asked not to return.
They are wonderful people in their own neighborhood but they are the renters from hell.
This is one of the reasons I never rent out my place. I occasionally let friends use it free of charge but that is rare and only people I trust that I know will treat it like their own.

[tis]

I am surprised that so many don't seem to worry about the wear and tear on a house when renting to a big crowd of people.

[joey2665]

I am surprised that so many don't seem to worry about the wear and tear on a house when renting to a big crowd of people.

Short term rent is much higher than renting monthly and full rent and deposit paid in advance. In my experience there is not a lot of wear and tear as the tenants are usually more affluent to pay that kind of money upfront.


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[tis]

Short term rent is much higher than renting monthly and full rent and deposit paid in advance. In my experience there is not a lot of wear and tear as the tenants are usually more affluent to pay that kind of money upfront.


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But still, having thirty people in a house has to be hard on it. Everything is used more. Often more than one family will rent to be able to afford it. To your point though, if they are affluent, they wouldn't need as many people to pay the rent. I am just saying a large amount of people is tough.

[joey2665]

But still, having thirty people in a house has to be hard on it. Everything is used more. Often more than one family will rent to be able to afford it. To your point though, if they are affluent, they wouldn't need as many people to pay the rent. I am just saying a large amount of people is tough.

Never seen a home with 30 people. It’s always limited to the amount of people it sleeps in the lease and lease also usually states no parties.


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[tis]

Never seen a home with 30 people. It’s always limited to the amount of people it sleeps in the lease and lease also usually states no parties.


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No, that was an exaggeration but I do remember reading on here once somebody was looking for a rental for 30 people or about that and somebody actually offered their home. But I know positively that you need to watch people if you rent because often they try to have more people than they said they would and also a lot of them party because they are on vacation.

[Biggd]

I am surprised that so many don't seem to worry about the wear and tear on a house when renting to a big crowd of people.Many of those big waterfront houses are bought by groups of investors just to rent out as a business investment. All they care about is ROI.

[Biggd]

Never seen a home with 30 people. It’s always limited to the amount of people it sleeps in the lease and lease also usually states no parties.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Ha,ha, no parties. That's a joke. My daughter use to say, "I never had any parties when you went away, only small gatherings". Years later we found out the meaning of "small gatherings". :eek::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[tis]

Ha,ha, no parties. That's a joke. My daughter use to say, "I never had any parties when you went away, only small gatherings". Years later we found out the meaning of "small gatherings". :eek::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yes. People on vacation usually party.

[joey2665]

Ha,ha, no parties. That's a joke. My daughter use to say, "I never had any parties when you went away, only small gatherings". Years later we found out the meaning of "small gatherings". :eek::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

No it’s not and your not renting to teenagers or frat members if you are smart. Your are supposed to vet your tenant as any smart landlord would.


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[Mr. V]

Allowing rentals enables people without much income or money who inherit a nice home to keep it in the family.

They get to use the property quite a bit, subject to the need to rent it out for a couple of months in order to get the money to pay the cost of upkeep and taxes.

So the city fathers have a choice: either prohibit home rentals and thereby ensure that only the wealthy will live there, or allow rentals and thereby allow the property to remain in the hands of your "average joes and janes."

[tis]

No it’s not and your not renting to teenagers or frat members if you are smart. Your are supposed to vet your tenant as any smart landlord would.


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Joey, you think people don't go to the lake to party? Check out Braun Bay sometime. Not meaning to argue but in my opinion it just is a fact.

[joey2665]

Joey, you think people don't go to the lake to party? Check out Braun Bay sometime. Not meaning to argue but in my opinion it just is a fact.

I do not understand all the flank I am getting? Your statement is not fact. What does Brain Bay have to do with short term rentals?

This is something I am extremely experienced with. Again as long as you properly vet you tenants you should not have any major issues. I’ve been renting residential properties short term for a long time.

Also as a matter of fact in my experience long-term renters do much more damage to homes been short renters do.


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[Biggd]

I do not understand all the flank I am getting? Your statement is not fact. What does Brain Bay have to do with short term rentals?

This is something I am extremely experienced with. Again as long as you properly vet you tenants you should not have any major issues. I’ve been renting residential properties short term for a long time.

Also as a matter of fact in my experience long-term renters do much more damage to homes been short renters do.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I'm glad you do it right but just because you do a good job vetting your tenants doesn't mean other landlords do. That's why oversight is needed.
Like I said, I know of some multi million dollar houses that were bought by groups of investors who never set foot in them and are rentals only. Sometimes they get great tenants and sometimes they don't. And if you're one of the neighbors it isn't always pleasant.

[joey2665]

I'm glad you do it right but just because you do a good job vetting your tenants doesn't mean other landlords do. That's why oversight is needed.

Like I said, I know of some multi million dollar houses that were bought by groups of investors who never set foot in them and are rentals only. Sometimes they get great tenants and sometimes they don't.

There are already town ordinances for noise and the like. More regulation is more government and more wasted money.

A very few isolated incidents and the world turns upside. Classic overreaction


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[Biggd]

There are already town ordinances for noise and the like. More regulation is more government and more wasted money.

A very few isolated incidents and the world turns upside. Classic overreaction


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)As long as you're not one those "isolated incidents", no problem. Classic landlord response.

[tis]

I do not understand all the flank I am getting? Your statement is not fact. What does Brain Bay have to do with short term rentals?

This is something I am extremely experienced with. Again as long as you properly vet you tenants you should not have any major issues. I’ve been renting residential properties short term for a long time.

Also as a matter of fact in my experience long-term renters do much more damage to homes been short renters do.


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Not meaning to give you flack and my point with Braun Bay is people come to the lake to party when they are on vacation, whether it's for a day, a week or a month. Even if you vet your people you have to keep your eye on the property.

[tis]

And BTW, Joey, I didn't say I was against renting at all. I think a lot of people need to do it to pay their property taxes. And I hate more government rules and regulations. I think our houses should be our property and the government should stay out of it, but of course you know they don't. Every move is regulated. Then you see what SOME people do and you understand unfortunately why we need rules and laws.

[Woodsy]

It is easy to say its OK for a homeowner to do what he wants with his property... Woohoo freedom! However, if it worked that way we would have no need for zoning laws. Ask the guy on the corner of Rollercoaster Rd what he thinks! Or better yet, his neighbors!

The Airbnb/Vrbo concept, is essentially an unregulated, uninspected commercial motel in a residential neighborhood, especially when the house is not occupied by the owner, and was purchased specifically for short term rentals. It is a for profit business, and not subject to the same rules and regulations that Hotels & Motels are subjected to. For example, Airnb/Vrbo properties are NOT inspected for life safety issues, they don't pay the rooms & meals tax, they don't pay business taxes etc etc.

Laconia does not need or want so called "investors" who want to buy up property only to rent it out like a no tell motel. The City has a vested interest in building up neighborhoods.

Woodsy

[iw8surf]

It is easy to say its OK for a homeowner to do what he wants with his property... Woohoo freedom! However, if it worked that way we would have no need for zoning laws. Ask the guy on the corner of Rollercoaster Rd what he thinks! Or better yet, his neighbors!

The Airbnb/Vrbo concept, is essentially an unregulated, uninspected commercial motel in a residential neighborhood, especially when the house is not occupied by the owner, and was purchased specifically for short term rentals. It is a for profit business, and not subject to the same rules and regulations that Hotels & Motels are subjected to. For example, Airnb/Vrbo properties are NOT inspected for life safety issues, they don't pay the rooms & meals tax, they don't pay business taxes etc etc.

Laconia does not need or want so called "investors" who want to buy up property only to rent it out like a no tell motel. The City has a vested interest in building up neighborhoods.

Woodsy


The city of Laconia doesn't seem to vested in building up neighborhoods though. They seem to be more for continued support of keeping the towns image beneath the poverty line. These new regulations just add another negative and essentially eliminate Laconia off the list of when people ask where to stay/rent a house when visiting the Lakes Region.

[Biggd]

And BTW, Joey, I didn't say I was against renting at all. I think a lot of people need to do it to pay their property taxes. And I hate more government rules and regulations. I think our houses should be our property and the government should stay out of it, but of course you know they don't. Every move is regulated. Then you see what SOME people do and you understand unfortunately why we need rules and laws.Exactly, not every owner takes care of their property and I wouldn't consider it "isolated incidents". I've seen people move into brand new $700,000 homes with beautiful landscaping and never cut the grass. By then end of the summer it's 3ft tall. That's why fence companies are sooo busy!
You notice it more with different cultures. The colonial town of Lexington it is 50% Asian now. They all want big houses with no yards to take care of. $800,000 homes are being torn down to make way for 3 and 4 million dollar homes and they sell quickly.
I went to see Lenny Clark in Lexington's Cary Hall last year and one of his jokes was, "I rode my bike here on the bike path and I fell off and was knocked out. When I woke up I though I was in China".

[tis]

It is easy to say its OK for a homeowner to do what he wants with his property... Woohoo freedom! However, if it worked that way we would have no need for zoning laws. Ask the guy on the corner of Rollercoaster Rd what he thinks! Or better yet, his neighbors!

The Airbnb/Vrbo concept, is essentially an unregulated, uninspected commercial motel in a residential neighborhood, especially when the house is not occupied by the owner, and was purchased specifically for short term rentals. It is a for profit business, and not subject to the same rules and regulations that Hotels & Motels are subjected to. For example, Airnb/Vrbo properties are NOT inspected for life safety issues, they don't pay the rooms & meals tax, they don't pay business taxes etc etc.

Laconia does not need or want so called "investors" who want to buy up property only to rent it out like a no tell motel. The City has a vested interest in building up neighborhoods.

They don't have to pay rooms and meals tax?????? I think they do. Or they are supposed to.

[Woodsy]

The city of Laconia doesn't seem to vested in building up neighborhoods though. They seem to be more for continued support of keeping the towns image beneath the poverty line. These new regulations just add another negative and essentially eliminate Laconia off the list of when people ask where to stay/rent a house when visiting the Lakes Region.

I disagree.... the City has made improvements to the Weirs, and is currently focused on Lakeport improvements. Investors buying up houses to run like motels is not in the best interest of any neighborhood.


Woodsy

[covelife]

The arm of government that is to big. Way to many laws.

Yes, but wish they would do more to deal with the hoarders in town that use their properties as a junkyard!

[joey2665]

Wow. I am shocked at the distain for short term rentals. This is extremely popular is almost all resort areas world wide.

I have no problem paying the occupancy tax on short term rentals.

inspection and health safety issues are ridiculous. Why would short term rental be subject these type of regulations when long term and commercial are not. So if I rent one day over the short term time I am not subject to any of these health and safety regs?

My points are merely not opinion but fact based on years of experience. Short term rentals increase values and boost the economy. Fact!!!

Many of the “opinions” on this subject are just that opinions and not fact.

You just do not want short term rentals because you are worried there MIGHT be an issue when in fact people without you knowing until this came in front of the council having been going on successfully for years with very minimal incident.


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[Biggd]

Wow. I am shocked at the distain for short term rentals. This is extremely popular is almost all resort areas world wide.

I have no problem paying the occupancy tax on short term rentals.

inspection and health safety issues are ridiculous. Why would short term rental be subject these type of regulations when long term and commercial are not. So if I rent one day over the short term time I am not subject to any of these health and safety regs?

My points are merely not opinion but fact based on years of experience. Short term rentals increase values and boost the economy. Fact!!!

Many of the “opinions” on this subject are just that opinions and not fact.

You just do not want short term rentals because you are worried there MIGHT be an issue when in fact people without you knowing until this came in front of the council having been going on successfully for years with very minimal incident.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Air B&B has changed short term rentals dramatically. This is why new regulations are being proposed. People are renting their homes all over the world with very little oversight.
As a matter of fact, people are renting homes out that they don't even own.
It's opened up a whole new can of worms.

[joey2665]

Air B&B has changed short term rentals dramatically. This is why new regulations are being proposed. People are renting their homes all over the world with very little oversight.
As a matter of fact, people are renting homes out that they don't even own.
It's opened up a whole new can of worms.

It has increased volume but not changed short term rentals. I have never used Air BnB or any other service. The vacation rental industry has never had oversight this doesn’t change anything. As far as renting a home you do not own you do not need Air BnB for that scenario.

I just see many trivial excuses for people that just do not want short term rentals in their backyards


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[Woodsy]

Wow. I am shocked at the distain for short term rentals. This is extremely popular is almost all resort areas world wide.

I have no problem paying the occupancy tax on short term rentals.

inspection and health safety issues are ridiculous. Why would short term rental be subject these type of regulations when long term and commercial are not. So if I rent one day over the short term time I am not subject to any of these health and safety regs?

My points are merely not opinion but fact based on years of experience. Short term rentals increase values and boost the economy. Fact!!!

Many of the “opinions” on this subject are just that opinions and not fact.

You just do not want short term rentals because you are worried there MIGHT be an issue when in fact people without you knowing until this came in front of the council having been going on successfully for years with very minimal incident.


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I don't know why you are shocked! At my condo complex in the Weirs we take a VERY laid back attitude with most things. We had a condo in our complex do Airnb and it was AWFUL! We had all sorts of noise & parking issues. We let this go on for most of a summer, blaming it on bad luck in their clients. Finally we had enough. Luckily short term rentals were forbidden in the HOA docs, so a cease & desist was issued.

Why should your short term rentals not be subject to the same rules and regulations and inspections as a hotel/motel? Is that not in fact what your business model is? When you take money for lodging, you become a commercial entity and as such should be subject to the same rules & regs. Why should you as an individual, be exempt from the same rules we impose on the Naswa & Margate and other businesses?

Woodsy

[Biggd]

It has increased volume but not changed short term rentals. I have never used Air BnB or any other service. The vacation rental industry has never had oversight this doesn’t change anything. As far as renting a home you do not own you do not need Air BnB for that scenario.

I just see many trivial excuses for people that just do not want short term rentals in their backyards


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)It's not trivial if it's happening in your neighborhood and it's not as isolated as you make it out to be. I'm happy you are one of the responsible landlords but there are many out there that are not just as there are not many that are responsible renters.
I've been a residential landlord and I know how difficult it can be that's why I only deal with commercial tenants now. Right now times are good for renting but things can change quickly. I'm 65 and I've seen lots of good times and lots of bad.

[Red apple]

So I personally purchased a home is a residential neighborhood and like my peace and quiet with out the "hotel" feel with people coming in and out every two to three days next door and across the street that we have had with the Air B&B for the last few years. Now that they passed this new proposal I will do everything in my legal homeowner rights to make their renters not welcome and not be able to keep renting. Hopefully the three strike rule is still in the books as it was before so after three legitimate complaints about the renters they will be no longer allowed to rent. This is just me as I spend to much time and money on my property to have to deal with BS next door and across the street. To each his own and some homes with renters do not bother anyone as they are set back but in my case people are at time 20' away.

[joey2665]

It's not trivial if it's happening in your neighborhood and it's not as isolated as you make it out to be. I'm happy you are one of the responsible landlords but there are many out there that are not just as there are not many that are responsible renters.
I've been a residential landlord and I know how difficult it can be that's why I only deal with commercial tenants now. Right now times are good for renting but things can change quickly. I'm 65 and I've seen lots of good times and lots of bad.

I have rented in my neighborhood many times without issues. Again it it just a case of not in my backyard and extreme overreaction.

This has become an exercise in futility. I will continue to vet and rent short term in the area as long as it is financially prudent and part of this is making sure I have quality tenants.

Cheers!!!!!

[fatlazyless]

From the city's rules on short term lodging in Post #201, it says:

Rule 2-C-vi: 'To determine maximum number of vehicles allowed per rental, driveway capacity shall be confirmed. On-street parking shall not be allowed.'

Ok ..... so when an annoyed neighbor phones Laconia-911 and complains on the rental, the police officer who arrives at the scene of the rental will immediately have an easy count on the parked cars without needing to enter the rental .... and the police will probably have list showing each rental's car capacity, plus the obvious no on-street parking.

Reading the rules, it seems like the first offense for too many parked cars over listed capacity gets a warning, while a second offense carries a $275/day civil fine for the rental :eek: owner.

[Mr. V]

Why should your short term rentals not be subject to the same rules and regulations and inspections as a hotel/motel? Is that not in fact what your business model is? When you take money for lodging, you become a commercial entity and as such should be subject to the same rules & regs. Why should you as an individual, be exempt from the same rules we impose on the Naswa & Margate and other businesses?Woodsy

The same argument can be made when comparing taxis to uber.

Hotel / motel / established rental colonies must really hate the proliferation of short term rentals; I wonder how much they have lobbied against them?

[tis]

About 3 years ago I started getting calls on my cell asking about my house on VRBO up in the ski area of NH somewhere. I told them they must have the wrong number. They told me they didn't this was the number I posted in my ad. I told them I didn't have an ad or a house to rent. After a few of these calls, I figured out that somebody had erroneously posted my number in their ad. This must have been a very popular place because I got lots of calls. I either called or emailed and they told me to do the opposite so I did but never got any where with VRBO. These calls went on for a couple of years quite often. They then slowed down but I did get one a couple of months ago. The thing that really surprised me was that they insisted that I had a house to rent because this was the number. Some of them told me they booked my place and they needed to know what to bring and what was supplied. I always asked them if they did get in touch with the true owner if they would ask her/him to please change the number on the ad. So the moral of the story is, just hope you never get your phone number posted on somebody's ad. It is a pain in the neck. And if you rent please be very careful with the number. They must have lost a lot of business having the wrong number.

[Biggd]

So I personally purchased a home is a residential neighborhood and like my peace and quiet with out the "hotel" feel with people coming in and out every two to three days next door and across the street that we have had with the Air B&B for the last few years. Now that they passed this new proposal I will do everything in my legal homeowner rights to make their renters not welcome and not be able to keep renting. Hopefully the three strike rule is still in the books as it was before so after three legitimate complaints about the renters they will be no longer allowed to rent. This is just me as I spend to much time and money on my property to have to deal with BS next door and across the street. To each his own and some homes with renters do not bother anyone as they are set back but in my case people are at time 20' away.As I said before, I have a house across the street from me that's rented all season with absolutely no problems for the 5 years I've been there but if I did have a problem I would take to the owner first.
She's owned the place for a long time and has weeded out the bad apples. Her tenants are the same ones every year.
Air B&B is becoming a problem all over the world but when ever something new comes along, problems have to be corrected. Cities and towns are going though the correction phase now as they are being confronted with more complaints than they were normally seeing in the past.
No one likes new laws but not everyone does what's in the best interest of everyone around them. Many people only care about what puts the most money in their pockets regardless of who it affects.

[joey2665]

As I said before, I have a house across the street from me that's rented all season with absolutely no problems for the 5 years I've been there but if I did have a problem I would take to the owner first.
She's owned the place for a long time and has weeded out the bad apples. Her tenants are the same ones every year.
Air B&B is becoming a problem all over the world but when ever something new comes along, problems have to be corrected. Cities and towns are going though the correction phase now as they are being confronted with more complaints than they were normally seeing in the past.
No one likes new laws but not everyone does what's in the best interest of everyone around them. Many people only care about what puts the most money in their pockets regardless of who it affects.

Sweeping statements. Again what is your proof short term or Airbnb Rentals are an issue "World Wide". Are there some stats you have to prove this? Along with "many" only care about what goes in their pocket. Yes being a landlord is a business but myself and owners I am familiar with are extremely responsible and care about their properties and the neighborhoods we are in. You make all landlords out to be "slumlords" which is an absolute falicy

[winni83]

A 10 second Google search brought up many municipal v. short term rental problems. See, e. g.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/23/unwelcome-guests-airbnb-cities-battle-over-illegal-short-term-rentals.html

[Biggd]

Sweeping statements. Again what is your proof short term or Airbnb Rentals are an issue "World Wide". Are there some stats you have to prove this? Along with "many" only care about what goes in their pocket. Yes being a landlord is a business but myself and owners I am familiar with are extremely responsible and care about their properties and the neighborhoods we are in. You make all landlords out to be "slumlords" which is an absolute falicyI thought you were done here? :D The word "slumlords" is yours not mine.
I never said all landlords are bad but there are many bad ones as there are tenants.
I think you're taking this thread a little too personal. :rolleye1:
Anyone that doesn't believe Air B&B has changed the rental landscape has their head in the sand.

[joey2665]

I thought you were done here? :D The word "slumlords" is yours not mine.
I never said all landlords are bad but there are many bad ones as there are tenants.
I think you're taking this thread a little too personal. :rolleye1:
Anyone that doesn't believe Air B&B has changed the rental landscape has their head in the sand.

Of course I am taking it personal. It is my major source of income. If people were opineing negativity about your industry without facts and trying to regulate and overreact you would take it personally also.

[Biggd]

Of course I am taking it personal. It is my major source of income. If people were opineing negativity about your industry without facts and trying to regulate and overreact you would take it personally also.I'm way past that, because I know 90% of the people in my industry today are crooks. I'm one of a dying breed that puts customers before profits.
I actually have customers that have been coming to me for over 40 years. I guess that's why I'm still plugging away at 65. :(

[Woodsy]

Joey....

There is a huge difference in being a landlord and running a mini-motel! Your business should be subject to the same rules & regs as any other hotel/motel. You should especially be held to life safety rules and regulations!

Woodsy

[Major]

My issue is that if I want to live in a neighborhood having family homes having owners who live in them and that neighborhood is zoned to prevent short-term or even long-term rentals, I would be upset if neighbors started renting their homes. I fully realize that there are good neighbors and bad neighbors, much like there are good renters and bad renters. Zoning is promulgated to protect the integrity of the neighborhood. Not for a second do I believe home prices on Pleasant Street or Short Drive or Morningside Drive or in Long Bay, would be negatively impacted by regulations on short-term rentals. In fact, my gut would tell me that home prices would rise.

If we want to change the zoning, we should go through the democratic process and see what the people who live here want.

[joey2665]

Joey....

There is a huge difference in being a landlord and running a mini-motel! Your business should be subject to the same rules & regs as any other hotel/motel. You should especially be held to life safety rules and regulations!

Woodsy

Your missing the point. My point is if you rent biannually or annually you are not subject to these rules and taxes but short term you are? Makes no sense.


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[tcoffey]

It would not necessarily be bad
If home values did come down as a result of rental restrictions. What about the people and families that just want to buy a lake property for themselves and not burden the town with rowdy renters. Now they get to buy at a lower price!


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[Biggd]

It would not necessarily be bad
If home values did come down as a result of rental restrictions. What about the people and families that just want to buy a lake property for themselves and not burden the town with rowdy renters. Now they get to buy at a lower price!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)A reset usually happens when there is a recession. No one knows when that will be but that's the time to buy if you can be patient and wait. This expansion has lasted a long time so I think we are getting closer.
With the debt that's been racked up with cheap money it's only a matter of time before the bill comes due.

[TiltonBB]

Senator Harold French has filed legislation that would alter the statewide regulations and affect Laconia short term rental rules. The arguments and committee hearings on this should bring up some interesting discussions.

If passed, Laconia will need to revisit the issue and change the recently enacted ordinance.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/bill-would-prohibit-local-bans-on-short-term-rentals/article_1ed3c8fa-33ee-11ea-b0e8-5f1a906123fd.html

[joey2665]

With the state getting involved it is a totally new game. I am in favor of statewide legislation as opposed to town by town. If things stay with the new Laconia ordnance than Gilford Metedith Alton etc will have an additional leg up on tourism.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Harold is listen to the big money in Laconia instead of families in neighborhoods. Very disappointing. Did not expect that from him. He should wait to see how the first rental season goes before saying it’s wrong and must be changed


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[tis]

It's sad though, isn't it, that people have to rent their property to pay their taxes?

[WinnisquamZ]

It's sad though, isn't it, that people have to rent their property to pay their taxes?

Sad, not at all. Short term rentals are targeted as investment income for their owners. Has little, if anything to do with someone’s abilities to afford ones housing choice. Owner occupied properties are exempt. So if one needs to rent a room to afford ones expenses so be it.
Short term rental permits are available for those that choose this type of investment. I believe the permit is the major hurdle that investment property owners are angry of. Opening the door to the city for inspection of a property that was updated without permits and not up to current safety codes.



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[tis]

WinnisquamZ


Maybe you are right, but some people rent their houses on the lake to pay or help pay the taxes. They have been in the family for years and they want to keep them.