Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough

[LadyEMT]

PLEASE help Ward Bird, his family, friends and the Moultonborough community that he lives in. His case needs public attention, and support. You can find all the info you may need by visiting this web adderess. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169135639777900

[loopcharged]

The state of NH in conjunction with the Moultonborough police dept. Are grossley out of control. I have also had the displeasure of experiancing the wrath of a system which penilizes citizens for telling the truth by imprisoning them and stealing thier children. Please write the Govenor, your senator/congressman and say a prayer in support of Ward Bird and his family/community in an effort to right this wrong. You can also show your support by joining Free Ward Bird on facebook. Thank you, Dave A. Rossetti

[loopcharged]

United we stand!

[ITD]

Wow, tough case, I guess the waving the gun around part is contested, but three years seems like a harsh punishment even if that is the case.

Seems to me a more appropriate punishment would be to take the guns away plus probation for a year or so, especially if this guy has no prior indications of violent behavior. Just seems like a travesty in that this guy obviously wants to be left alone and was minding his own business when some ditz drives past no trespass signs, ignores prior instructions about not to drive past a trailer and intrudes on this guy. Of course on the other hand, he was warned that this lady might mistakenly come on his property by his niece and he knew what she was driving, so the gun probably wasn't needed. Still, from what I see here, the sentence doesn't fit the crime and should be reduced.

[wuwu]

Thank you ladyEMT for your post! I, too, believe a terrible injustice has been done to Ward Bird! Drunk drivers, drunk boaters and sex offenders receive less of a sentence than this! This man is a HONEST person and a fantastic father! We must undo this injustice! http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2010/2010114bird.pdf
www.courts.state.nh.us
Please read what a convicted felon, who was on parole, said so she didn't violate HER parole.
It is a real shame to let Ward Bird spend one more night in prison!

[LadyEMT]

As well as getting the word out, I have known Ward and his family for the past 10 years.. Long enough to know that this conviction needs to be relooked at. I have written a character letter on his behalf, and will be attaching it to any emails I send out, ie; congressmen, senators, governor... I will do what I can for Ward and his family !!

[RI Swamp Yankee]

.... visiting this web adderess. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169135639777900

Can not see the page
You must log in to see this page.

[wuwu]

more on FREE WARD BIRD
Man's Prison Sentence Sparks Anger In Community
www.wmur.com/news/25839677/detail.html

[LadyEMT]

I am sorry RI Swamp Yankee.. I failed to realize that unless people had a FB account, some people would not be able to see it..

Truely sorry..

[nicole]

Thank you so much for posting this-what an outrage. I just joined his Facebook page and my family and I will be writing letters. I will pass this on to as many people as I can.

[magicrobotmonkey]

Wow, this is a crazy story. I just met ward this summer and was buying a lot of produce from him. The story about him definitely doesn't fit the man I've been working with all summer.

[secondcurve]

Blizzard's punishment wasn't nearly as severe as this and she killed someone. I guess on that basis maybe the sentence should be suspended? However, old Ward should learn to keep his gun at rest unless he is really threatened. It certainly is a crazy world.

[Lakesrider]

With the new early release program, he will be out in 90 days. Wait and see. What a waste of tax payers money to put this guy in jail....

My email will go out tomorrow. I need to calm down before I write it....;)

[RI Swamp Yankee]

hmmm ..... I wonder what part of No Tresspassing she didn't understand. When I see a sign like that I tend to expect the owner would be upset to find me on the property so I keep my distance. Government installations have been known to post signs saying No Tresspassing, if someone there in a uniform points a gun at me can I file charges? .... yup, didn't think so.

[secondcurve]

hmmm ..... I wonder what part of No Tresspassing she didn't understand. When I see a sign like that I tend to expect the owner would be upset to find me on the property so I keep my distance. Government installations have been known to post signs saying No Tresspassing, if someone there in a uniform points a gun at me can I file charges? .... yup, didn't think so.

The supposed trespasser got the go ahead from the niece who gave old Ward a call, so he certainly could,'t have been startled . Further, he knew a house was for sale in the area so it shouldn't have come as a surprise that someone mistakenly might show up in his door. Plus, it was broad daylight and again his niece told him a lady was coming. Finally, my mommy always taught me that it was not proper to use cuss words in the presence of ladies. Maybe 90-days in the big house would do old Ward some good.

[wuwu]

The supposed trespasser got the go ahead from the niece who gave old Ward a call, so he certainly could,'t have been startled . Further, he knew a house was for sale in the area so it shouldn't have come as a surprise that someone mistakenly might show up in his door. Plus, it was broad daylight and again his niece told him a lady was coming. Finally, my mommy always taught me that it was not proper to use cuss words in the presence of ladies. Maybe 90-days in the big house would do old Ward some good.

you forgot to mention..the supposed trespasser was also told if you see a no trespassing signs or a white work trailer YOU went to far!

[secondcurve]

you forgot to mention..the supposed trespasser was also told if you see a no trespassing signs or a white work trailer YOU went to far!

Good point. My bad. He probably legally had the right to shoot her for making a mistake and getting lost. I have never been lost while driving my car in unfamiliar territory, I am sure you haven't either and old Ward certainty never has made a mistake of such magnitude.

[tis]

In reading this, there HAS to be a missing link. Did he know this person? Had she aggravated him in the past? Did she go there purposely after the niece had told her it wasn't the right place to go? THere must be some kind of history. I don't blame the guy for protecting his property but most people don't run out with a guy shouting at someone because they got lost. As an outsider, it just seems to me there is something we are not hearing here.

[tummyman]

Somehow there is a wide difference in the sentence that Erica Blizzard received vs. Ward Bird. In one case a person is killed and in the other, no physical injury. Guess he maybe didn't have the "right" legal counsel. There does not seem to be equal treatment under the law in this situation when you look at the Blizzard case. There is a difference between doing things right and doing the right thing. The law isn't intended to destroy a person for relatively minor issues......... WAKE UP !

[MarkinNH]

The supposed trespasser got the go ahead from the niece who gave old Ward a call, so he certainly could,'t have been startled . Further, he knew a house was for sale in the area so it shouldn't have come as a surprise that someone mistakenly might show up in his door. Plus, it was broad daylight and again his niece told him a lady was coming. Finally, my mommy always taught me that it was not proper to use cuss words in the presence of ladies. Maybe 90-days in the big house would do old Ward some good.

There is NO "supposed trespasser" about it. The person, who from what I have read is NO Lady, clearly and blatantly entered onto property that was clearly marked as private.
The "supposed trespasser" also did not get the "go ahead" from the niece to enter Wards property. Apparently the "supposed trespasser" was clearly told by both the niece and the realtor, to Turn Around if she got to the white trailer. so why didn't the dumb Bch do as she was instructed to do and turn around at the white trailer ? Instead she chose to ignore what she had been told to do as well as ignore All the signs because she was lost. Lost my A$$ !!
How lost could she truly have been ? I have been in there several times and this is not a housing development with lots of little side roads. Turn the car around and go back the way you came. It is not a difficult concept for most people.
None of us were there, so it is unfair and wrong for any of us to assume and speculate whether or not Ward acted in an irrational manor and / or that he should have acted or behaved differently. There are only 2 people who know EXACTLY what happened that day. Having known Ward and Ginny for better the 20 years, I have to and happily, choose to side with and support them. Ward may be a man who speaks his mind and stands his ground but a lunatic or psychotic or irrational, as some people have refereed to him as, He is not !. These are hard working decent people, to lock him up for 3-6 years or even for 90 days is ludicrous and is indeed a travesty of justice !!
I blame the woman who started all this by ignoring the signs and trespassing, the police for not using simple human common sense and especially the county attorney who ultimately chose to pursue the original charges and push it until she got her way. Hell hath no fury like a womans wrath !!

[Happy Gourmand]

There just has to be another side to this bizarre story. Was anybody from the forum in the courtroom to hear the whole story? I have no dog in this hunt, I'm just curious to know "the rest of the story."

[chipj29]

There just has to be another side to this bizarre story. Was anybody from the forum in the courtroom to hear the whole story? I have no dog in this hunt, I'm just curious to know "the rest of the story."

I completely agree. I watched this story on the news last night, and my first thought was...what am I missing?

[VitaBene]

There are several petitions going around town to free Mr Bird. I signed one last night at the athletic awards at the Academy.

From what I understand, there really is no other side to the story other than an overzealous prosecution of a case by liberal former County Attorney, Robin Gordon (recently ousted in the elections earlier this month).

[Lakesrider]

Somehow there is a wide difference in the sentence that Erica Blizzard received vs. Ward Bird. In one case a person is killed and in the other, no physical injury. Guess he maybe didn't have the "right" legal counsel. There does not seem to be equal treatment under the law in this situation when you look at the Blizzard case. There is a difference between doing things right and doing the right thing. The law isn't intended to destroy a person for relatively minor issues......... WAKE UP !

Exactly. Maybe if it was dark rainy/foggy, had been drinking, and running around his property at speed, and simply ran into the woman, he would have been let off......:eek:

[wuwu]

I completely agree. I watched this story on the news last night, and my first thought was...what am I missing?

You are not missing anything! This is why this community has come together to stand with the Bird family.

[fatlazyless]

Have you seen the long article in today's Union Leader starting on page B1 complete with two very attitude-positive color photos of Ward and his wife, Ginny. The article is most definately written with a helpfull editorial slant in support of Ward. It says he had a 45-caliber handgun so does that mean something like a world war-II combat pistol or does it mean a western style six-shooter? .... :rolleye2:


In a case like this, even if one manages to stay out of prison, then how much do you end up paying to a defense attorney who usually gets their money up-front, before a sentence is issued by a court. You can probably just about go broke just by trying to prove your case in court.....from what I have heard? ...:rolleye2:

The Union Leader article brings up some negative background info about the plaintiff and it suggests the info was not allowed to be heard in the trial.

So is it the reporter or the newspaper editor who makes the decision on how the reporter writes up a news report; slant positive - slant negative - slant neutral ??? It's pretty common for the Union Leader as well as other papers to chose photographs that help to support their story slant.

As the saying goes; there's two sides to every story.

[RailroadJoe]

If he had Blizzard's money it may have been a different ending. Equal justice under the law! You have got to be kidding. Maybe Lynch will pardon him, if he can.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

The supposed trespasser got the go ahead from the niece who gave old Ward a call, ......
That fact is not supported in the appeal
During her drive to the property, she became lost and stopped at the
home of the defendant’s niece, where she asked for directions. The niece told
her that the most direct route to the property was Emerson Path to Yukon
Trail, and then a road to the left with a small bridge over a stream. The niece
told her that if she passed a white “job trailer,” she was on the wrong property The niece only gave directions and a warning.


One troubling phrase that was repeated through the appeal was:
Viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the State,.. Since defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty it is the state that has the burden of proof. Trial judge and appeal judge(s) can not place the burden on defendant and view evidence in favor of the state.

Seems like there were a few more errors by appeal justices too.

[Slickcraft]

I can think of a number of situations when a homeowner would want to display a weapon so as to warn away a suspicious stranger. Of course, not being there, it is hard to say if such display was warranted or not here. In any case, the harsh penalty is totally unwarranted.

It sounds like state law dealing with home defense needs some work to make it clear that a homeowner does have the right display a weapon when a stranger refuses an order to leave or otherwise acts in a threatening way. There is a recent addition to RSA 631.4 that hints at this but there are no special provisions for home defense. Right now you have to show that someone else first threatened to do you in prior to your displaying the fact that you are armed. That may be little late in many situations.

631:4 Criminal Threatening. –
I. A person is guilty of criminal threatening when:
(a) By physical conduct, the person purposely places or attempts to place another in fear of imminent bodily injury or physical contact; or
(b) The person places any object or graffiti on the property of another with a purpose to coerce or terrorize any person; or
(c) The person threatens to commit any crime against the property of another with a purpose to coerce or terrorize any person; or
(d) The person threatens to commit any crime against the person of another with a purpose to terrorize any person; or
(e) The person threatens to commit any crime of violence, or threatens the delivery or use of a biological or chemical substance, with a purpose to cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, facility of public transportation or otherwise to cause serious public inconvenience, or in reckless disregard of causing such fear, terror or inconvenience; or
(f) The person delivers, threatens to deliver, or causes the delivery of any substance the actor knows could be perceived as a biological or chemical substance, to another person with the purpose of causing fear or terror, or in reckless disregard of causing such fear or terror.
II. (a) Criminal threatening is a class B felony if the person:
(1) Violates the provisions of subparagraph I(e); or
(2) Uses a deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V in the violation of the provisions of subparagraph I(a), I(b), I(c), or I(d).
(b) All other criminal threatening is a misdemeanor.
III. (a) As used in this section, "property'' has the same meaning as in RSA 637:2, I; "property of another'' has the same meaning as in RSA 637:2, IV.
(b) As used in this section, "terrorize'' means to cause alarm, fright, or dread; the state of mind induced by the apprehension of hurt from some hostile or threatening event or manifestation.

[Paragraph IV effective January 1, 2011.]

IV. A person who responds to a threat which would be considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or to another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act under this section.

[Onshore]

Ok so it's been about 20 years but when I was doing habit surveys as a summer job in college I wandered into the backyard of an individual who did not appreciate the presence of me and my co-worker. That individual did have a rifle and while I don't recall any obscenities being used he did make it clear that we needed to leave his property. I have always, and will always believe that we should have been paying more attention to where we were at the time. In 20 years it never once crossed my mind that that individual had done anything wrong. But now I'm curious, in the eyes of the legal community, what about a situation like this would qualify it as "criminal" threatening?

[MarkinNH]

If he had Blizzard's money it may have been a different ending. Equal justice under the law! You have got to be kidding. Maybe Lynch will pardon him, if he can.

When you have a biased County Attorney who's case history has always seemed to favor the womans side, you don't need money. The unofficial word I hear, is it that she prefers donuts over éclairs. ;) ;)

[ishoot308]

O.K. so from what I understand here someone trespassed on Mr Wards property even if accidental. The owner displayed a gun and yelled obscenities at the trespasser and told her to leave. Mr. ward did not fire a shot at her. Am I understanding this correctly that Mr Ward is in trouble for brandishing a firearm on his own property??

[MarkinNH]

O.K. so from what I understand here someone trespassed on Mr Wards property even if accidental. The owner displayed a gun and yelled obscenities at the trespasser and told her to leave. Mr. ward did not fire a shot at her. Am I understanding this correctly that Mr Ward is in trouble for brandishing a firearm on his own property??

That is the gist of it. I believe he was indicted and prosecuted for Criminal Threatening.

In April 2009, the court sentenced the defendant to prison
for no less than three and no more than six years, citing RSA 651:2, II-g, which
imposes a mandatory minimum sentence of three years “[i]f a person is
convicted of a felony, an element of which is the possession . . . of a deadly
weapon, and the deadly weapon is a firearm.”

You can read it in detail more thoroughly here.

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2010/2010114bird.pdf

[VitaBene]

O.K. so from what I understand here someone trespassed on Mr Wards property even if accidental. The owner displayed a gun and yelled obscenities at the trespasser and told her to leave. Mr. ward did not fire a shot at her. Am I understanding this correctly that Mr Ward is in trouble for brandishing a firearm on his own property??

That is my understanding, Dan.

They said he went wrong when he showed and presented his handgun. He was already carrying it in a small of the back holster when he pulled it out. He did not threaten to shoot her or aim at her.

I wonder how this plays with open carry laws.

[fatlazyless]

Today's LaDaSun has an article that's a lot more detailed than what's in today's Union Leader.

It sounds from the LaDaSun article like the five NH supreme court justices, hearing the case on appeal, were negatively impressed by the defendant waving a 45-caliber handgun around in sight of the plaintiff. That was not a good thing to do.....in the eyes & ears & brains of this court!

He should of just used a broom.....you know....go wave a broom around.....that would probably work......something to remember here......don't wave a 45 around....when a broom will do the job. If he had just used a broom he wouldn't be in this mess right now....ok.....maybe a hockey stick or a tennis racquet would be good too? Hey, maybe find a potential tennis partner all at the same time? It takes two to play tennis! Better to go get along on the tennis court than take your case to the supreme court.....plus you get a whole lot better work-out too! .. :):D:)

Hey, maybe if these two smacked a ball around a tennis court against one another they would start to get along.....it's surprising what a good game of tennis can do to build a little good will between two....so who know's....in tennis, someone wins and someone loses.....until the next game.......'duke it out on the tennis court and stay out of jail.'

Three years of legal back & forth....then off to prison for three years or something....at this point....he's probably happy to go to prison just to be getting it finally settled. Hey, I hear they have internet connections in the state prison.....so....he could show up on this forum here maybe....how about that!

[PennyPenny]

In reading this, there HAS to be a missing link. Did he know this person? Had she aggravated him in the past? Did she go there purposely after the niece had told her it wasn't the right place to go? THere must be some kind of history. I don't blame the guy for protecting his property but most people don't run out with a guy shouting at someone because they got lost. As an outsider, it just seems to me there is something we are not hearing here.

Family argueing over the land for sale. You are right that there is more to the story. Not that Locky was right or wrong or the woman was either. Long history of the family not getting along. I agree the sentence was harsh. I know the family as well as many other people. All good people in their own right but just bad blood along the line.

[tis]

Thank you PennyPenny for enlightening us a bit. I felt there had to be some previous bad blood. If he is such a great guy as everyone is saying, he had to have a reason to be so upset. I just can't imagine a normal person greeting someone who is "lost" with a gun.

[songkrai]

That is the gist of it. I believe he was indicted and prosecuted for Criminal Threatening.



You can read it in detail more thoroughly here.

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2010/2010114bird.pdf

Thanks for the link to the actual court findings. I wonder how many have actually read this court decision.

And if one does not like the RSA's in this case then contact or petition your state representative to change the law.

[RailroadJoe]

Maybe, just maybe, our justice system will realize that the Constitution was written by men with foresight, with NO political ambitions. Time to get a litle common sense.

Bad enough the lower courts are (blank) but even the Supreme Court needs work.

[wifi]

Thank you PennyPenny for enlightening us a bit. I felt there had to be some previous bad blood. If he is such a great guy as everyone is saying, he had to have a reason to be so upset. I just can't imagine a normal person greeting someone who is "lost" with a gun.

I don't believe there was bad blood between the parties involved, certainly if there was, one of the attorneys would have brought this out to benefit their side. It was simply that the person was warned NOT to trespass and they did anyway. The property for sale was owned by Wards sister in law and Ward had a FROR on it (ALL publicly available information). I went to visit that land many times, both with and without a REA in tow, with the intent of purchasing it.

None of the times was I chased by someone, BUT I didn't cross over the boundary well marked with no trespassing signs. There was also adequate room to turn around, if you missed the small driveway crossing the stream to the for sale property.

What is the ambiguity in a no trespassing sign? What is in the mind of someone who crosses this sign then won't leave, or, if reminded by the property owner they are trespassing, doesn't issue an immediate apology turn on their heals and run...its not to the benefit of the land owner, for sure. The message is being sent you can do what ever you want on someone else's posted private property until (or if) the police finally arrive and they decide what that person can do.

Another factoid is that there is almost 2000 feet of driveway between that job trailer and Wards house, how could a reasonable person not know they were deep into someone else's posted private property? Thank you Slickcraft for noting the law will change on 1/1/11, obviously the general court saw a problem with the laws as they are now interpreted and currently enforced. Maybe, Lynch, based on the law changing, will take an interest and reverse more of this liberal insanity. Time for a petition to the Guvnah ?

[twoplustwo]

On Rand Paul's Daily Paul site from someone obviously closer to the family. If this is closer to the truth than what the media is spewing, Sisti blew it in court.

http://dailypaul.com/node/149906

FLL, normally I can ignore your goofy ramblings because it is what's expected from you. In this case, I find your stupid jokes in ridiculously poor taste and wish you'd go to McD's for breakfast and stay away from your computer. Ward Bird is a kind man, father, husband and friend. He shouldn't be in jail, period.

[Pepper]

twoplustwo, thank you for that link. It certainly does provide a bit more of the detail we've all been seeking.

At this point I'm quite surprised that this story has not attracted national attention. I suspect it won't be long before it does.

[Argie's Wife]

twoplustwo, thank you for that link. It certainly does provide a bit more of the detail we've all been seeking.

At this point I'm quite surprised that this story has not attracted national attention. I suspect it won't be long before it does.

Amen. I expect we'll see it on Drudge Report soon...

[ishoot308]

That is my understanding, Dan.

They said he went wrong when he showed and presented his handgun. He was already carrying it in a small of the back holster when he pulled it out. He did not threaten to shoot her or aim at her.

I wonder how this plays with open carry laws.

Something is definitely not right here... You can carry a holstered gun down main st legally without a carry permit! You have every right to protect your home and property and having a firearm in your hand or holstered when confronting a trespasser on your property is not illegal.

Unless I am completely missing something, this is a travesty of justice that I hope gathers attention and is overturned.

Dan

[RailroadJoe]

When in Hell are the court systems going to realize that all testimony is relevant. This not allowing testimony is stupid and juvenile. Time the lawyers stop their stupid remarks and get to the truth, even if it benefits the other person. Money is nice, but honesty and justice is better.

[NoBozo]

One of the problems in this case, irrespective of the "protect your property" aspect, is this:

By law: If you cause a person to Believe, either by your gesture(s) actions, or words, that they are in Danger..ie threatened, ...That is considered "Assault".

If you actually carry through with the threat ....or merely touch the person, that can be considered "Battery". NB

[RailroadJoe]

NoBozo -- Sounds like lawyer talk to me.

[brk-lnt]

Something is definitely not right here... You can carry a holstered gun down main st legally without a carry permit! You have every right to protect your home and property and having a firearm in your hand or holstered when confronting a trespasser on your property is not illegal.

Unless I am completely missing something, this is a travesty of justice that I hope gathers attention and is overturned.

Dan

I've been following this thread, and the related stories online and in the news. I've also been a big a fan of the 2nd amendment for some time as well.

You are correct that NH permits unconcealed open carry, and is basically a shall-issue concealed carry state.

Where this incident seems to get into a gray area is when Bird went from *carry* to *brandish*. I think that he is being overly prosecuted for this incident, and the punishment does not seem to fit the crime. And of course, none of us were there, so we are all speculating... My personal speculation though is that he might have over-reacted a bit. I am not sure that he truly felt reasonably threatened by this trespassing woman to warrant actually displaying a firearm.

FWIW, I've been in a similar situation to him on my own property a couple of times, including once when a couple of FBI special agents showed up looking for a previous owner of this property shortly after I purchased it. I was armed when I met them on the porch, and knew that these two guys in a big sedan didn't belong on my property, but did not immediately resort to brandishing the .45 (H&K USP-C) that was on my person.

As a gun owner and daily carryer you have (IMO) a responsibility to both brandish and use the weapon responsibly.

Overall, I support Bird and do not think a trespasser such as this woman has any case to file a claim as she did, but I also think that he would be wise in the future to not display any firearm unless he or another person on his property was being clearly threatened.

[MarkinNH]

I've been following this thread, and the related stories online and in the news. I've also been a big a fan of the 2nd amendment for some time as well.

You are correct that NH permits unconcealed open carry, and is basically a shall-issue concealed carry state.

Where this incident seems to get into a gray area is when Bird went from *carry* to *brandish*. I think that he is being overly prosecuted for this incident, and the punishment does not seem to fit the crime. And of course, none of us were there, so we are all speculating... My personal speculation though is that he might have over-reacted a bit. I am not sure that he truly felt reasonably threatened by this trespassing woman to warrant actually displaying a firearm.

FWIW, I've been in a similar situation to him on my own property a couple of times, including once when a couple of FBI special agents showed up looking for a previous owner of this property shortly after I purchased it. I was armed when I met them on the porch, and knew that these two guys in a big sedan didn't belong on my property, but did not immediately resort to brandishing the .45 (H&K USP-C) that was on my person.

As a gun owner and daily carryer you have (IMO) a responsibility to both brandish and use the weapon responsibly.

Overall, I support Bird and do not think a trespasser such as this woman has any case to file a claim as she did, but I also think that he would be wise in the future to not display any firearm unless he or another person on his property was being clearly threatened.

Straight from Webster's dictionary

Definition of BRANDISH
transitive verb
1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

Nobody can honestly say that he "brandished" the weapon. The lady said he was waving it in her face. Members of Wards family and I assume Ward himself, say he merely removed it from the holster, to check the safety, as he stepped into his house.
IMO here lies a large portion of the problem. Where did they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he "brandished" the weapon and actually threatened her ?

[fatlazyless]

Just seems like people go and get themselves into all sorts of un-needed trouble by messing around with handguns. They almost always make a tenuous situation into a terrible situation. In civilian hands, as opposed to the local police, the sight of a hand gun will usually un-nerve and inflame a situation. As everybody knows, once you pull that trigger, you cannot stop that bullet .....it's too late to change your mind and undue that bullet shot.

Now, wouldn't old Ward-Boy have been much better off just to take a broom and swing it about maybe just a little bit, and maybe flash a big friendly smile in the plaintiff's direction. That would send a message that would be much less threatening than showing a .45 semi-automatic pistol which is a large handgun. For many people who are not used to seeing a handgun in the hands of a non-police officer, it is frequently a serious scary feeling for them, and very rightly so. Like come on....you see someone who is not wearing a police officers uniform with a big 45 in his hand and you most likely think.....time to get the heck away from here....

You just make mention of a handgun to a police officer and it immediately escalates the situation. Hand guns are a definate hot button issue!

[brk-lnt]

The lady said he was waving it in her face. Members of Wards family and I assume Ward himself, say he merely removed it from the holster, to check the safety, as he stepped into his house.


This is somewhat puzzling to me. If it had been in the holster the whole time, why would the state of the safety have been suspect and required him to check it?

[brk-lnt]

Now, wouldn't old Ward-Boy have been much better off just to take a broom and swing it about maybe just a little bit, and maybe flash a big friendly smile in the plaintiff's direction. That would send a message that would be much less threatening than showing a .45 semi-automatic pistol which is a large handgun. For many people who are not used to seeing a handgun in the hands of a non-police officer, it is frequently a serious scary feeling for them.You just make mention of a handgun to a police officer and it immediately escalates the situation. Hand guns are a definate hot button issue!

You contribute nothing to this discussion. You posted this stupid broomstick thing already. It's not an intelligent or thoughtful comment, and it certainly is not entertaining. If you cannot converse on par with the rest of thread, then you might be best to just sit by the sidelines and observe.

[fatlazyless]

Here's the last two paragraphs from today's Nov 20 Union Leader front page report as read on the internet.

..........

In a nine-page opinion written by Associate Justice Gary Hicks, the high court found that "a rational juror could have found that the defendant's belief that it was necessary to wave his pistol to terminate Harris' trespass was not objectively reasonable."

"Considering the evidence and all inference to be drawn from it in the light most favorable to the state, a rational juror readily could have found that the defendant's actions of waving and pointing a gun toward the victim, while yelling 'get the f... off my property,' constituted felony criminal threatening," the Supreme Court ruled.
..........

And, it was a unanimous decision with all five justices in agreement.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

.... "Considering the evidence and all inference to be drawn from it in the light most favorable to the state, a rational juror readily could have found that the defendant's actions of waving and pointing a gun toward the victim, while yelling 'get the f... off my property,' constituted felony criminal threatening," the Supreme Court ruled.....

in the light most favorable to the state was an error by the appeal justices.

If applied in the light most favorable to the defendant a reasonable juror could conclude otherwise.

Appeal justice also incorrecly applied State v. Gilbert, 473 A.2d 1273, 1275-76 (Me. 1984) (upholding the trial court’s denial of a motion to acquit in a criminal threatening with a dangerous weapon case where evidence demonstrated that the victim was invited and expected at the defendant’s home and, thus, was “neither a trespasser nor reasonably perceived as such by” the defendant). since there is no evidence that the so called victim was invited and in fact the so called victim was warned not to tresspass.

[wuwu]

This is the woman that went on Birds property!
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eagletribune.com%2Flocal% 2Fx1876390199%2FPolice-seize-dogs-from-Salem-home-owner-charged-with-assault&h=ba929

She would have violated her parole!
This all seems so unfair!

[hazelnut]

I just HAD to cut and paste the link from Twoplustwo if this is even 50% true it turns my stomach that Bird is serving even one day for this:

Ward Bird from Moultonborough, NH was sentenced to 3-6 years in prison for criminal threatening with a firearm.

The facts of this case, most of which were not allowed into court, should chill anyone who still thinks they have a right to be secure on their private property.

Christine Harris, a notorious animal abuser and hoarder with over 60 convictions in at least 3 states, went driving onto Mr. Bird's private, posted land. She claimed in court that she was looking at a property for sale so she could run an "educational farm."

Stopping at at least one wrong address, Mr. Bird's niece directed her to the property she was supposed to view. The niece gave her clear directions, and warned her that if she passed a white travel trailer, she had missed her turn and should turn back, as that was private property. The niece called Mr. Bird and said that he may see this "lost" person on his property.

Ms. Harris passed the trailer, did not heed the warning from the niece, and continued on toward Mr. Bird's private property after numerous (at least 12) "Private Property" and "No Tresspassing" and "DANGER!" signs.

She got out of her vehicle and began to walk around the home, looking into windows. Mr. Bird had come out onto his porch with a pistol in a holster. He saw this woman skulking around his windows and called out to her. He told her that she had received the correct directions from his niece and that the proerty she wanted was (paraphrased)"down the road and over that way."

Ms. Harris did not heed this, and accused Mr. Bird of being the spouse or boyfriend of the property owner and trying to deceive her about the property for sale, or somesuch. Mr. Bird then told her she was tresspassing, and to get off his property. Ms. Harris decided to stay and argue with him about not wanting to sell to her.

He told her he was going to call the police, and turned to go back into the house. He removed the pistol from its holster to check that the safety was on as he was entering the home.

But Ms. Harris, facing more felony counts in court at the time, whipped out her cell phone and called police first! She claimed Mr. Bird was "waving a gun in my face" and threatened her, blah blah... In my opinon, she knew her goose would be cooked if this man got a hold of the police before her. Mr. Bird was recovering from a serious abdominal surgery at the time, and was moving slow, with dozens of stitches to his abdomen. (I am hearing from people who know him that it was surgery to repair his abdominal aorta? If so, that's pretty heavy surgery and recovery, as my own father had it 7 years ago and could barely shuffle his feet, let alone charge down a porch and wave a gun around!)

Since I'm posting this story here, you all know what happened. The facts of Ms. Harris' apparent mental disorder(s) were not allowed into court.

Mr. Bird is an upstanding member of his community, active in his church, Boy Scouts, charity... he even received a Hero citation about 20 years ago for saving a woman whose Jeep overturned in a swamp; he bent the vehicle frame and held her head above water until rescue could arrive. He has a solid family, wife and four children. He has a farm business, and is really a nice all-around person who whould do anything for anyone- and he has.

There are some real freaks or just ignorant people out there commenting on these articles, saying he came out of his house waving a gun at a lady who was lost, and what a crazy gun-toting teabagger, etc... But the facts of the case, most of which were not allowed into court, are extremely important.

In my opinion, this paranoid, mentally-disturbed Christine Harris was clearly "not right" and Mr. Bird justifiably, while legally bearing a legal firearm, asked her, and then told her to leave his property after being accused of lying about who he was and lying about his property being for sale.

[no-engine]

I don't know why I am reading this thread! Unless we know the facts, sitting in court and listening to the full proceeding, how can 90% of us make a valid statement? I agree that the Ward Bird family are great people, but I was not in court so will not comment on proceedings. PERIOD!

[RailroadJoe]

How can you listen to ALL the facts when most of them are no longer allowed in courts. They don't really want the WHOLE truth, only what they will allow.

Lawyers being lawyers.

[ITD]

I still can't get past the fact that this lady was trespassing, period. Looking at real estate does not absolve her from trespassing. She had been warned not go on this man's property. She admittedly argued with this man when he told her to get off the property. To me, that rises to the level where I think this guy would be justified revealing a firearm. No shots were fired, according to the court brief, she turned around and got into her car to leave, then apparently called the police. She caused this whole incident, and from what I read here and from the court briefs, I think this man should have been acquitted.

Apparently Mr. Ward admitted to the police that he unholstered his gun. I have to think to what I have been told by lawyers: don't talk to the police, especially if you think you are in trouble. I'm thinking that had this admission not been made, that this case would have gone differently, food for thought when dealing with police. Anyway, this guy should be freed. This woman obviously got away with trespassing and saved her own skin.

I'd like to know where the "public funds" she was going to use to buy this land was coming from?

[hazelnut]

Re-reading the article submitted by Twoplustwo I can't get this one image out of my head:
If in fact Bird was recovering from surgery and was in pain imagine dealing with a woman who most likely engaging him in some sort of argument that he was being less than truthful about the property. Based on what we have learned about the woman she appears to be less than stable. So again even if we only believe half of what we read I can imagine that he could have felt threatened by her aggressive questioning and at that point he was physically impaired due to the recent surgery. Take a look at the article submitted by wuwu I'll quote it for you:

"The owner of the dogs, Christine Harris, 54, of 75 S. Policy St., Lot 61, was charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator..."

So is it a stretch to think that Ward may have felt threatened by this woman? I know the shoving incident was long after the encounter with Ward but it certainly shows what kind of "woman" she is. Is it hard for anyone to imagine that she was probably aggressive towards Mr Bird? If that is the case I go back to illustrating my point where if Mr. Bird was in pain and physically limited at the time can you really blame him for letting her know that if she persisted he was capable of defending himself and his property.

Before anyone attacks me I am merely illustrating a reasonable scenario that could have happened. I am not suggesting that I know exactly what happened. But with all of the information coming in does anyone really believe that this was a "damsel in distress" that was attacked by and ogre of a man hell bent on blood shed? It sounds to me that the State of New Hampshire has grossly failed in this case.

[MarkinNH]

I don't know why I am reading this thread! Unless we know the facts, sitting in court and listening to the full proceeding, how can 90% of us make a valid statement? I agree that the Ward Bird family are great people, but I was not in court so will not comment on proceedings. PERIOD!

And you felt the need to tell us this, Why ? :confused: Read it if you choose and just move on and don't bother posting Anything in the thread. PERIOD! :confused:

[fatlazyless]

Better to wave a broom & smile friendly, than to raise a gun and curse!

Old Chinese proverb: If you want an enemy for a neighbor then you should treat him like one!

[wuwu]

Better to wave a broom & smile friendly, than to raise a gun and curse!

Old Chinese proverb: If you want an enemy for a neighbor then you should treat him like one!
I think if someone was peering into my windows, I most certainly would grab a gun!

[Puckster]

they took the word of a possible fellon over that of Mr. Bird. It is scary that he goes to jail for 3 years and she continues on her way. This lady is no peach. She new exactly what she was doing. I am confused about my rights as a land owner and when it is okay to show someone a gun. I am not sure why people are thinking they are missing something. Yes we do not have all the details, but the state is trying to get the sheeple under control. This is just another small removal of your rights... test case, trial ballon.. you fill in the blanks.

[Puckster]

Better to wave a broom & smile friendly, than to raise a gun and curse!

Old Chinese proverb: If you want an enemy for a neighbor then you should treat him like one!

have you read the news lately... there are alot of desperate people out there during these hard times. Robberies, mental instability, murders in small towns... you can wave your broom all you want. Never bring a broom to a gun fight or a knife fight for that matter.

[MarkinNH]

Better to wave a broom & smile friendly, than to raise a gun and curse!

Old Chinese proverb: If you want an enemy for a neighbor then you should treat him like one!

Are you as Pompous an A$$ in real life, as you appear at times, on this forum ?

Old chinese proverb: It is better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

[CTYankee]

in the light most favorable to the state was an error by the appeal justices.

If applied in the light most favorable to the defendant a reasonable juror could conclude otherwise.

Appeal justice also incorrecly applied State v. Gilbert, 473 A.2d 1273, 1275-76 (Me. 1984) (upholding the trial court’s denial of a motion to acquit in a criminal threatening with a dangerous weapon case where evidence demonstrated that the victim was invited and expected at the defendant’s home and, thus, was “neither a trespasser nor reasonably perceived as such by” the defendant). since there is no evidence that the so called victim was invited and in fact the so called victim was warned not to tresspass.

An appellate court only reviews for errors of law, not findings of fact. Mr. Bird was convicted by a jury made up of average citizens. The jury found that the facts sustained the State's claims beyond a reasonable doubt. The trial judge applied the law in fashioning its sentence. When the case reached the Supreme Court Mr. Bird was already convicted. Therefore the presumption of innocence no longer applied. It is no error that the court applied its review in the light most favorable to sustaining the conviction. The State was the prevailing party. Likewise, from the recited facts of the instant case the court properly applied [U]State v. Gilbert[U].
That said Mr. Bird does have a legal avenue to pursue. He can petition for a writ of habeas corpus. I would suggest that his supporters look into finding an attorney experienced in post conviction pleadings. Not any old criminal attorney is competent in this area.

[fatlazyless]

FREE WARD BIRD is what the big sign out front of the Congregational Church, next to the post office in Center Harbor, says.

Who knows but with their help maybe he can find some divine intervention from above?

Will most definately be less expensive than finding an attorney knowlegable with habeas corpus pleadings!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

FREE WARD BIRD is what the big sign out front of the Congregational Church, next to the post office in Center Harbor, says.

Who knows but with their help maybe he can find some divine intervention from above?

Will most definately be less expensive than finding an attorney knowlegable with habeas corpus pleadings!

That's it. No more. I am headed to userCP and making you my first ignore post forum member. Congratulations. PS Try a spell checker.

My thoughts and prayers for the Bird family.

[MarkinNH]

That's it. No more. I am headed to userCP and making you my first ignore post forum member. Congratulations. PS Try a spell checker.

My thoughts and prayers for the Bird family.

I understand from family members posting on the Facebook page, that today is Wards Birthday. There is also a group of friends, family and supporters gathering this morning to go to concord in a show of support. That said.
My thoughts and prayers and Bday wish's are also with Ward and his family. Having this man sit in jail is not serving justice. He is Not a threat to society and never was.
The Carrol County attourney at the time, Robin Gordon who pushed until she won this conviction should be ashamed of herself. How this woman sleeps at night I'll never understand. Of the various possible ways this case could have been handled and resolved, she fought and argued for the one way in which to destroy and damage the life of a decent hard working family man.

[fatlazyless]

Let me see here.....Ward could have acted like a normal person and said something like .... "Hello there, how are you today, can I help you? .... or he could have said something a little friendlier like...."Hey there, you sure is look'n good today, what's going on?.....but no....Ward goes and waves a great big 45 hand gun around and shouts "Get the f... off my land!"

This case was first heard by a lower court and most recently by the NH Supreme Court and it had all five justices in agreement that it was indeed a case of felony threatening. It just seems like a lot of you people are not making a rational judgement on this.

Ward had the opportunity to accept a plea bargain, which I do not understand all that well, but....whatever....and he turns it down....correct?

[brk-lnt]

It just seems like a lot of you people are not making a rational judgement on this.


The day that you can comment about other peoples rational thoughts or actions is going to be a very strange one indeed.

[ClosetExtrovert]

http://dailypaul.com/node/149906

Ron Paul, in Texas, has picked up this story!!

[MarkinNH]

Let me see here.....Ward could have acted like a normal person and said something like .... "Hello there, how are you today, can I help you? .... or he could have said something a little friendlier like...."Hey there, you sure is look'n good today, what's going on?.....but no....Ward goes and waves a great big 45 hand gun around and shouts "Get the f... off my land!"

This case was first heard by a lower court and most recently by the NH Supreme Court and it had all five justices in agreement that it was indeed a case of felony threatening. It just seems like a lot of you people are not making a rational judgement on this.

Ward had the opportunity to accept a plea bargain, which I do not understand all that well, but....whatever....and he turns it down....correct?

There is No proof that he ever "waved" the gun around ! Only the womans say so !
And if it were you in some similar situation, would you except a plea bargain which is still an admission of guilt, for something you Didn't Do, because it comes with a lesser sentence ?
You have finally removed All doubt, not only are you clearly a Pompous A$$ but you are most assuredly a fool and an antagonistic jerk to boot !
I suspect this thread and an innocent man sitting in prison is nothing more to you then a form of cheap entertainment.
Now, Go Away !!

[Happy Gourmand]

...to end this discussion. Just my opinion.....

[brk-lnt]

...to end this discussion. Just my opinion.....

I don't think a discussion and grass-roots suport campaign for an unjustly imprisoned person should be shut down simply because the thread has been invaded by a child.

The better course of action would be to remove the cancer before sacrificing the entire limb.

[Slickcraft]

From WMUR web site:
http://www.wmur.com/news/25877303/detail.html
Patten has submitted a House bill that would allow a property owner to display a firearm to a trespasser.


Protesters Call For Release Of Man Convicted Of Threatening

CONCORD, N.H. --
Ward Bird Rally
Kria Sakakeeny
Nearly 100 protesters gathered outside the state house in Concord on Monday morning to call for the release of Ward Bird, who was sentenced to prison for criminal threatening.

Bird turned 49 on Monday. He just started serving a mandatory sentence of three to six years in prison. Supporters called the sentence unjust, saying Bird was within his rights when he had a gun while confronting a woman who went past "no trespassing" signs onto his property.

Bird's wife, Virginia, was among the protesters on Monday, as was state Rep. Betsy Patten.

Patten is advocating for Bird's pardon from prison. Bird's wife said he has been mailed an application for a prison pardon. She said he was offered a plea deal for no prison time, but he refused because, she said, he was innocent.

[Resident 2B]

From WMUR web site:
http://www.wmur.com/news/25877303/detail.html
Patten has submitted a House bill that would allow a property owner to display a firearm to a trespasser.

Finally, a bill from Rep Patten that I fully support. Thank you Rep. Patten for starting something that makes sense here!

Now, someone, somehow has to stop this foolishness and free a unjustly-convicted, family man. Rep. Patten, can you help here? What has happened is completely wrong!

I know the area and the no trespassing signs are very clear. No way she should have been on his property, especially after being warned about it. No way anyone should be looking into the windows of a house when they do not know the owner. Plenty of justification for Ward's reaction in my mind. He has a right to protect his family and his property!

I really cannot believe this is happening in our country.

R2B

[NoBozo]

I am not going to reread 77 posts. If I have misconstrued...PLEASE correct me. I am ON Wards SIDE. HE got screwed. I think I read that Ward had recently had a Abdominal Aneurysm Operation just prior to this altercation and was in pain (many stitches) when the women in question arrived.

I also seem to remember Ward had his pistol in a holtser..and removed the pistol to check the safety at some point. Holster belt around his waist...??

I have had that same operation THREE times in ONE year. The doctors and hospitals (3) were totally incompetant. The Fourth time was the CHARM..MASS GENERAL in Boston. They saved my life. :)

MY POINT relative to Ward. First..I have a very high threshold of pain it seems. I didn't require ANY seditives imediately after my operations or at any time afterward. I had no pain. I'm lucky.

However: When you have this operation...My incission was ~12 inches long from just below the breastbone to just above my pubic area...Zigging around my navel.

There is NO way someone in pain.. post OP would have a pistol belt with the weight of a pistol, around their waist over those stitches.. No Belts Whatsoever...not even to hold up your pants. I have worn suspenders ever since.

There must be somehing in the WARD story ..as told by others..that is not correct.....NB

[wuwu]

I am not going to reread 77 posts. If I have misconstrued...PLEASE correct me. I am ON Wards SIDE. HE got screwed. I think I read that Ward had recently had a Abdominal Aneurysm Operation just prior to this altercation and was in pain (many stitches) when the women in question arrived.

I also seem to remember Ward had his pistol in a holtser..and removed the pistol to check the safety at some point. Holster belt around his waist...??

I have had that same operation THREE times in ONE year. The doctors and hospitals (3) were totally incompetant. The Fourth time was the CHARM..MASS GENERAL in Boston. They saved my life. :)

MY POINT relative to Ward. First..I have a very high threshold of pain it seems. I didn't require ANY seditives imediately after my operations or at any time afterward. I had no pain. I'm lucky.

However: When you have this operation...My incission was ~12 inches long from just below the breastbone to just above my pubic area...Zigging around my navel.

There is NO way someone in pain.. post OP would have a pistol belt with the weight of a pistol, around their waist over those stitches.. No Belts Whatsoever...not even to hold up your pants. I have worn suspenders ever since.

There must be somehing in the WARD story ..as told by others..that is not correct.....NB

it was a holster worn on the small of your back!

[Slickcraft]

In today's Citizen:

Article published Nov 23, 2010
Bird case prompts bill to change law regarding gun use
Moultonboro:

A state lawmaker has filed a bill to explicitly permit residents to ward off trespassers by exhibiting a firearm.

"We want to make it very clear to the courts that protecting our property is an absolute right," said state Rep. Betsey Patten, R-Moultonborough, who filed the bill at the Statehouse Monday while group outside the Capitol protested the imprisonment of a Moultonborough resident for criminal threatening for brandishing a firearm when a woman trespassed on his property.

Patten acknowledged that if the bill were to become law it would not help Ward Bird who is serving a three- to six-year sentenced in State Prison.

In an nine-page opinion authored by Associate Justice Gary Hicks the New Hampshire Supreme Court upheld Ward's conviction late last month ruling that, "a rational juror could have found that the defendant's belief that it was necessary to wave his pistol to terminate (the victim's) trespass was not objectively reasonable."

"Considering the evidence and all inference to be drawn from it in the light most favorable to the state, a rational juror readily could have found that the defendant's actions of waving and pointed a gun toward the victim, while yelling "get the f¿ of my property," constituted felony criminal threatening," the Supreme Court ruled.

Bird's supporters claim he never leveled the gun at the woman, but rather took it out of back holster and checked it to assure the safety was on.

Patten said Rep. Leo Pepino of Manchester was the prime sponsor of House Bill 160 that was approved last year and becomes law in January 2011. That law relative to physical force in defense of a person reads, "A person who responds to a threat considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act."

Patten said her proposed legislation mirrors Pepino's, yet specifies defense of private property instead of a person.

Meanwhile, Patten said, she has obtained the necessary paperwork for Bird to apply for a pardon from Gov. John Lynch and the Executive Council. A pardon request requires an investigation by the Department of Justice and solicits recommendations from the prosecutor, the trial judge and the alleged victim among others.

Even if pardoned, Bird's guilty conviction would still stand, but he would be able to walk free.

On Monday morning Patten drove Bird's daughter, Aberdeen and a fellow Moultonborough Academy student Matt Tolman to Concord when she filed the legislation. The pair received excused absences from school to participate in a civics lesson, Patten explained. She said in talking with Academy Principal Andy Coppinger she has learned that many students are interested in the outcome of the Bird case and said because they feel they have a "vested interest" she hopes the process will be a learning one for the communities youngsters. Bird is the father of four children.

About two dozen of Bird's supporters gathered outside the State House on Monday to protest his imprisonment while Patten went inside to file her legislative service request.

[dpg]

Like others have stated I have no dog in this fight either I'm just blown away by the clear one-sided opinions "for" Mr. Bird. He WAY over reacted plain and simple. This is 2010 folks not the Cartwrights trying to protect their cherished Ponderosa...

[fatlazyless]

Isn't there a number of utility and local town people who have a legal right to be on your land; cable, electricity, telephone, water & sewer, town assessor, DPW, and local police come to mind.

The whole concept of ownership of land needs to be re-considered because who really owns the land? If you do not pay your property taxes then the town can auction it off at a fire sale price so it's more like the town has a lien on it and you are required to pay a monthly tax payment, similar to a rent payment, to the town. So, who really owns the land, and does the land itself have any personal feelings? Does the land say, well just look at all this snow piled up on top of me, will somebody please remove all the snow so I can feel that sunshine....don't ya know.....no, the land does not usually say things like that.....at least it does not say them to me?

Does your land talk to you? ... :rolleye2:

[tis]

fll ---Or if the town or state decided to take it by eminent domain, good luck fighting them. Maybe all of us need to protect our land that way.

In the case of Mr Bird though I do think they way over reacted. Going to jail for that? I think there is a lot to the story, she must have really agitated him in the past.

[MarkinNH]

..no, the land does not usually say things like that.....:

No, Land does not make assanine comments. That job is reserved special, Just for you because you are so proficient at it !

Does your land talk to you? ... :rolleye2:

No, my land doesn't speak to me and I wish you wouldn't either !!

[dpg]

In the case of Mr Bird though I do think they way over reacted. Going to jail for that? I think there is a lot to the story, she must have really agitated him in the past.

Or maybe HE has a way to short of a fuse...Just sayin. :confused:

[MarkinNH]

Or maybe HE has a way to short of a fuse...Just sayin. :confused:

If you walked out on to your porch to find somebody on your privately posted land, peeking in windows, and then that person wouldn't leave when told to, how would you react ? Just asking.

[jeffatsquam]

Mr. Bird has been wearing suspenders at least for the 25 years I have know him.

His and Ginnie's land could definitely be considered for a episode of bonanza.

He has been asking trespassers to leave his land for decades.

His very well posted land is at the very end of a road called Yukon trail.

His family lives off the grid in a beautiful home he built with the help of his wife.

This land he is protecting is the major water shed for Shannon brook.

[brk-lnt]

Or maybe HE has a way to short of a fuse...Just sayin. :confused:

From what I've seen and read this issue isn't from Bird having a short fuse. It seems that he took MANY reasonable precautions to keep trespassers off of and away from his property. I would like to think that in the US, and especially NH, we are entitled to our freedom and personal space.

The only REAL mistake Ward Bird made in this case appears to be offering a statement before consulting with qualified legal counsel.

[ishoot308]

If you walked out on to your porch to find somebody on your privately posted land, peeking in windows, and then that person wouldn't leave when told to, how would you react ? Just asking.

Well I can tell you that if that happened at my house, I wouldn't have to worry about the peeping tom calling the cops or trying to sue me later...;)

Dan

[dpg]

If you walked out on to your porch to find somebody on your privately posted land, peeking in windows, and then that person wouldn't leave when told to, how would you react ? Just asking.


I wouldn't pull a gun. Besides, who knows she wouldn't leave? Not you or me. Just answering.

[MarkinNH]

The big question and concern at this point of the situation is.
Does this man truly deserve to spend the next 3 to 6 years behind bars for protecting his property ? NO ! However extreme his actions may seem to some the answer is still NO !
This man is not and never has been a danger to society. The standard sentence that comes with this conviction is absurd !
Erica Blizzard is out walking the street, working and living a somewhat normal life after her actions, poorly chosen or otherwise, took a human life.

Ward Bird, is destined to spend a minimum of 3 years in prison after his actions, poorly chosen or otherwise, for kicking a trespasser of his property.

Now, irrelevant of whether anybody here thinks Mr Bird acted irrationally or not. Does this sentencing sound like proper justice. NO !
To take this man away from his family, to take up prison space and tax dollars better spent on locking up a Real criminal. Is just plain, flat out, absurd.
Anyone of us, who has the kahonies to do what they feel is necessary at the time, to protect their home or property, could easily be the next person to suffer the same ludicrous sentence.
Many of you will say and think. It can't and won't happen here, not to me !
You keep thinking that !!!
I only hope that you have the kind of genuine friends and loving family that Ward Bird has. Who will be willing to fight for you and support you, the way Wards friends and family are doing for him..

[Puck]

This was a jury trial, right? Twelve people listened to this case being argued and unanimously decided this gentlleman was guilty of criminal threatening. The thing I can't figure out is where the heck did they find 12 peple who thought this was criminal threatening? We can all scream at the top of our lungs about the law, and the judge, and the attorneys, but if this was a jury trial then 12 other NH citizens made the decision to to return a guilty verdict. How on earth did not one of them say "hmm... I think something iis wrong here?"

Was this somehow not a jury trial?

[TheProfessor]

The judge reads the law to the jurors and states to jurors that the law must be followed. Not individual opinions of jurors - but the laws.

The law apparently in this case seems to have gone too far - and no one noticed until this case.

Apparently, the law is going to be changed if legislature agrees.

[RailroadJoe]

Just because it is the law, does not make it right. Remember Germany in the 1930's

[CTYankee]

It appears that Mr. Bird is being punished by a law that won't be found on the books. In criminal law, the "law of unintended consequences" often results in sentences that are disproportionate to the crime. I'll explain. Legislatures often respond to "hot button" issues by crafting statutes that permit or even mandate enhanced sentences when the criminal act includes certain "aggravating" factors. Often these statutes prevent judges from exercising discretion when fashioning sentences. It appears that Mr. Bird is caught in just such a situation. In his case a gun was part of the fact pattern. The New Hampshire Legislature previously enacted a law making this an aggravating factor. This resulted in a sentence way out of proportion to the crime. This is an issue that has been hotly debated for many years among academics, the judiciary and the criminal bar. What starts out as a "tough on crime" law ends up snaring average citizens in a legal nightmare.
In my view, in Mr. Birds case the prosecutor should have exercised her discretion by charging him in a way that would not yield such a draconian result.

[Irish mist]

From what I've seen and read this issue isn't from Bird having a short fuse. It seems that he took MANY reasonable precautions to keep trespassers off of and away from his property. I would like to think that in the US, and especially NH, we are entitled to our freedom and personal space.

The only REAL mistake Ward Bird made in this case appears to be offering a statement before consulting with qualified legal counsel.

Yes......this is a CLASSIC case of not giving the police the rope to hang you with your own words. Say nothing to the police until you secure legal counsel. It's your right not to talk to an officer unless you want to.

[NoBozo]

This is probably not relevant to this case but it came to mind after reading many of these posts. MANY of you will not remember this because it was 50 years ago.

I was in the NAVY (Onboard Ship) at the time and we had a movie every night on the mess decks.

The name of the movie was "Billy Budd". It was about a young Seaman Apprentice in the Royal Navy (Around 1812) that evidently "Touched" the "Master At Arms,"... breaching naval etiquette. The Master At Arms on a Naval Ship is the person, or persons charged with maintaining law and order onboard ship. When I was in, they actually wore a badge like a police officer.

Billy Budd (beloved by his shipmtes) was tried, convicted, and hanged at the yard..........you have to see the movie...

I remember the reaction of MY crew members to the movie.. They were mortified that such an event could happen. There was a deeper reason (Absolute Discipline) why the verdict was justified...

BUT that would not be relevant in the Bird case. NB

[tummyman]

Seems like a perfect time for an ARMY of attorneys to offer pro-bono legal help to get this situation resolved NOW. How about Jim Moir, who earned many $$$'s defending Erica Blzzard so she only got a month in jail for killing someone? Where are all these defenders now that a terrible wrong has happened? Time for Mr. Moir and an large number of legal experts to step forward and work pro-bono to get this man home for Christmas. This is a stupid waste and NH, including the governor, needs to step up/buck up. Wonder how many legal volunteers will step forward..... We also need to get a group going on getting this into the national media...FOX News, CNN, etc... why haven't they already been on board????

[MarkinNH]

http://freewardbird.org/

There are also two Facebook pages pertaining to this situation. You do need to be a facebook member to access them There is plenty of reading here for anybody interested.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000694905973#!/event.php?eid=169135639777900

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000694905973#!/pages/Free-Ward-Bird/167812149908211

[tis]

I thought Siski was supposed to be a great attorney. Didn't I read that was who he used?

[wuwu]

http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Judge+didn't+want+to+jail+Bi rd&articleId=1d85a753-6315-4c97-bb2f-12890a8854f0
This says so much!

[Yosemite Sam]

I thought Siski was supposed to be a great attorney. Didn't I read that was who he used?

It is Sisti (not Siski) and if he couldn't get Bird off from this then no one could. I have been a juror on two trials with Sisti as the defense lawyer and he is real good. His personality isn't very good and that pony tail that he has makes him look weird but he is "real good".

[MarkinNH]

http://www.nhinsider.com/richard-olson-jr/2010/11/21/free-ward-bird.html

[SAMIAM]

Makes me wonder why the Moultonborough PD and county attorney even bothered to pursue this case......a respected local and cub scout leader accused by a person with a 12 year record of assault and operating a filthy and illegal dog breeding operation.I've always appreciated and backed our local PD........but now I'm wondering if they are just looking for a body count........somebody accuses you and off to jail.Pretty chilling.

[jeffk]

First, I have been looking for more information about this and this site came through with pointers to the details in various articles. So big kudos to Winnipesaukee.com.

I cannot understand how Ward was convicted. If all he did was walk out with a gun in it's holster and pull it out to check the safety that is not threatening. This dingbat of course says she was threatened but she is far from a reliable witness. Given the he said/she said circumstances and the lack of additional witnesses doesn't the defendant get the benefit of the doubt? How could a jury in good conscience vote for conviction? Were they aware that a conviction required a minimum sentence?

I understand how the judge's hands were tried by minimum sentencing rules. How did it get to that point?

[4 for Boating]

Independent observation with no dog in the fight,

1. Unnecessary to take a gun out when you “know” and are informed that someone is potentially lost in the area looking at a lot for sale

2. Dumb to call the police to report someone potentially overreacting when she is clearly in the wrong by getting lost and not observing the no trespassing signs in the first place

3. Completely Ludicrous penalty for what breaks down to some type of domestic dispute/argument

Possibly some past bad-blood regarding the personalities or the land in general BUT Two people overreacting and one judicial system out of control.

In the end, it pains me to think someone is in jail over the whole thing. Sad and just not right I think.

[jeffatsquam]

Good - man

bad - law

ugly - sentence

[Yosemite Sam]

Here is another Independent observation with no dog in the fight:

Below is what THE SUPREME COURT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE (http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2010/2010114bird.pdf)stated as to why they upheld the conviction of Ward Bird:

“Christine Harris arranged to meet a real estate agent on March 27, 2006, at his office to view a property for sale in Moultonborough owned by Patricia Viano that Harris was interested in purchasing.

That day, she called the real estate agent to inform him she was running late and could not make the appointment. Because he could not meet her later that day, she decided to look at the property herself.

During her drive to the property, she became lost and stopped at the home of the defendant’s niece, where she asked for directions. The niece told her that the most direct route to the property was Emerson Path to Yukon Trail, and then a road to the left with a small bridge over a stream. The niece told her that if she passed a white “job trailer,” she was on the wrong property.

After Harris left the home of the defendant’s niece, the niece telephoned the defendant to warn him that Harris was going to look at the Viano property and that she might show up on his property. She also told the defendant that Harris was driving a Ford Ranger.

Harris followed the niece’s directions and drove past signs that stated “Private road, keep out” on Emerson Path and “no trespassing” on Yukon Trail. She missed the left hand turn off of Yukon Trail, drove past the white trailer, and ended up in front of the defendant’s house. She parked her car and got out. The defendant emerged from his home “screaming, get the F off my property.” He came down from his porch, continuing to yell profanities while waving a gun at her.

At trial, she testified that he pointed the gun “[t]owards” her. Harris asked the defendant whether he was the boyfriend of the woman selling the property. He repeated his command for her to leave his property.

Harris eventually climbed back into her car, mouthing “[w]hat an ass.” The defendant then walked off the porch toward her waving his gun as she backed out of the driveway.”


My thoughts:

Mark Sisti (Bird’s Lawyer), or Mark Bird did not dispute the fact that Bird waved and pointed a gun at Harris (at least the Supreme Court ruling did not say that they did).

Bird’s niece telephoned the defendant to warn him that Harris was going to look at the Viano property and that she might show up on his property.

The above being said, how could the NH Supreme Court not uphold the conviction of Mark Bird of criminal threatening per RSA 631:4 (2007).

[Belmont Resident]

I was told on Wednesday of this story.
Being a gun owner living out in the woods, why did the gun even come out if it was originally in a holster?
Unless the other person had a weapon he was 100% wrong when he removed the gun from a holster.
Guns are not a toy. All he had to do to make a point was have the gun holstered and visible.
If this same person had been someone with a shady background with past problems with the law many would look at it differently.
The bottom line is the law weather it is right or wrong applies to all of us not just the bad element of society.
Maybe everyone who owns a gun should be required to take a class on hand gun safety both inside and outside the home. The laws vary in both instances.
My wife is taking the classes now.

[tis]

Remember though, her past as well as his past make no difference in this case. You can't bring old cases into a new case. So the issues she had with dogs could not be brought up here. The jury should not have know she had a past.

[MarkinNH]

My thoughts:

Mark Sisti (Bird’s Lawyer), or Mark Bird did not dispute the fact that Bird waved and pointed a gun at Harris (at least the Supreme Court ruling did not say that they did).

Bird’s niece telephoned the defendant to warn him that Harris was going to look at the Viano property and that she might show up on his property.

The above being said, how could the NH Supreme Court not uphold the conviction of Mark Bird of criminal threatening per RSA 631:4 (2007).

Who the Hell is Mark Bird ? :confused:

[Yosemite Sam]

Who the Hell is Mark Bird ? :confused:


Whoops, I should have said Ward Bird.

[Yosemite Sam]

I was told on Wednesday of this story.
Being a gun owner living out in the woods, why did the gun even come out if it was originally in a holster?
Unless the other person had a weapon he was 100% wrong when he removed the gun from a holster.
Guns are not a toy. All he had to do to make a point was have the gun holstered and visible.
If this same person had been someone with a shady background with past problems with the law many would look at it differently.
The bottom line is the law weather it is right or wrong applies to all of us not just the bad element of society.
Maybe everyone who owns a gun should be required to take a class on hand gun safety both inside and outside the home. The laws vary in both instances.
My wife is taking the classes now.

Belmont Resident,
I like your logic!


Remember though, her past as well as his past make no difference in this case. You can't bring old cases into a new case. So the issues she had with dogs could not be brought up here. The jury should not have know she had a past.


You are correct tis.

IMHO the jury probably knew a little bit about Harris and probably thought it really didn’t matter. The law (as written today) is the law so they had to convict Bird.

[hazelnut]

This isn't as Black and White as some may think.

I'm having a hard time with this one. I keep thinking to myself Don't we all have a right to protect ourselves and our property? If this was a woman waiving a gun at a big man with a criminal background would there even have been an investigation? Ward is a big man and this was a woman on his property so now he has no right to protect himself from a woman that won't leave and is arguing with him?

So where is the line? If a man comes on my property and he is larger than me and could potentially harm or even kill me with his bare hands can I pull a gun? What if the man is the same size? What if my wife is home with the kids and a man is peering in my windows can my wife pull a gun if the man won't leave and she fears for her life? Would she go to jail for protecting herself and my children?

Ward was injured and by some accounts feeble at the time, I am going on hearsay but if it is the truth does this not even the playing field? Did he feel threatened as he was physically limited at the time? Again is it a stretch to imagine this woman was a raving lunatic? (Check prior link where the "woman" pushed a tow truck driver)

Was he right or wrong? I don't know but the punishment sure feels wrong.

Clarification: I am not nor have ever been a gun owner.

[ITD]

Apparently the gun did leave the holster, what is contested is whether the gun was "waved" in the face of the "victim", which supposedly rises to the level of felony threatening. Again, reading this story, I'll have to say that Ward shouldn't have spoken to the police without counsel,other than to say this lady was trespassing and he wanted her removed. This even in light of the fact that I'm sure he was protecting his property.

This lady was antagonistic, even by her own testimony, where she said she thought she was dealing with the brother of the landowner who was selling and didn't want the property to be sold. She stood and argued, plus apparently she was walking around looking in windows before Ward came out.

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I end up on a wrong property and the owner comes out screaming to leave, I apologize and leave, no gun necessary. (Yes this has happened to me before and it was my fault for screwing up directions). This lady sounds like a whack job, and this case should not have been prosecuted, never mind having this guy end up with a 3 year sentence.

[Argie's Wife]

Here is another Independent observation with no dog in the fight:

Harris eventually climbed back into her car, mouthing “[w]hat an ass.” The defendant then walked off the porch toward her waving his gun as she backed out of the driveway.”[/I]




So, Bird is waving a gun and yelling and Harris sees fit to run her mouth at him? Can you say, "poor judgement"?

I thought Bird's intent was well placed; he wanted her to go away. He didn't want to shoot - or he would have cocked the hammer or taken aim. He sent a clear message. His intent wasn't a criminal one but he's being treated like a criminal.

[DoTheMath]

As we all know, there are three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth. Only two people really and truly know what happened that day between Ward and Christine, clearly there is a difference in opinion amongst them.

Aside from that, regardless of what went down between them - she was told "if you get to this point, you have gone too far and you should turn around". (fair warning). Why did she keep going all the way up to his house? Why was she out of her car and snooping around looking in the windows? She was on HIS private property, looking in HIS windows - I think they call people like that "peeping tom's" - don't they? Isn't that in-and-of-itself a crime? From what I can tell there are a number of signs posted that say no trespassing, and not one that says "house for sale". What was the actual exchange between the two of them that day? If she was told she was in the wrong place and asked to leave, and did not, what reason did she give as to why she wouldn't? If your car has broken down, or if you are lost and come and ring my bell FIRST asking for help, you've got my assistance. As a husband and father, if all of a sudden I see you peering in my windows, (and I don't recognize you), I'm prob. not coming out with guns-a-blazing, but you can bet I'm coming out to see what's up (and more than likely prepared for whatever might face me). If you are on my property and it gets to the point that I ask you to leave, and you don't... we have a problem. If I continue to ask you to leave, and you don't - we have an escalating problem.

You are taught that you don't USE a gun (for self-defense) unless you feel / are in imminent danger, and it's not like the movies where you pull it to scare someone, you pull it to use it. All that said, I think that where Ward was on HIS property, and she was trespassing, she was in the wrong - period. What actually happened with the gun, only two people really know - and in my eyes, pulled, shown or "brandished", if he asked her to leave and she didn't...

So, what was said at THAT point? Did she come off as angry, hostile, did she make any threats, what did SHE say or do to make him feel "I think I'm going to call the police now"? It's all on him right now, or so it seems, what about her!? There seems to be a lot of he said / she said to this, but at the end of the day - I find it atrocious that he is where he is in all of this, and she is just out and about with what seems to be no accountability!?

Shame on the local PD for handling it like they did and shame on the judge / court for escalating it to where it is! Live Free Or Die is the state motto and yet every time we turn around, there are issues like this that refute that stance. This incident has such far-reaching repercussions, I fear what's next as this set's a terrible precedent on so many levels.

[Resident 2B]

Shame on the local PD for handling it like they did and shame on the judge / court for escalating it to where it is! Live Free Or Die is the state motto and yet every time we turn around, there are issues like this that refute that stance. This incident has such far-reaching repercussions, I fear what's next as this set's a terrible precedent on so many levels.

The most shameful group here is the DA's office for bringing this into court. They knew what they were dealing with and still moved forward.

Resume building at the expense of a family man defending his family and property.

Shameful!!

R2B

[DoTheMath]

The most shameful group here is the DA's office for bringing this into court. They knew what they were dealing with and still moved forward.

Resume building at the expense of a family man defending his family and property.

Shameful!!

R2B

Agreed!!! (although not listed, I was including the whole chain of command in the fray...)

[Belmont Resident]

The in house gun protection class my wife took had an attorney there who specializes in fire arm laws.
He said when the police arrive do not under any circumstances give any details but instead refer them to your attorney. You are perfectly within your rights.
Any and all information you say no matter whom is at fault may be used against you.
I feel for the family but the law is the law and we all make mistakes and it appears he unknowingly made a mistake.
To have pulled the gun out it seems like someone might have a temper.
Guns and tempers do not go hand & hand. And this is why my wife will carry a gun and not me.

[ishoot308]

So let me get this straight.... If I hear someone rustling outside of my house at night and I grab my handgun and run out to investigate I'm guilty of criminal threatening because it's not in a holster?? NOT!!

Holster or un-holstered has nothing to do with criminal threatening. He would of had to point it at her and or threaten to shoot her. Simply having the gun in his hand and un-holstered is not a crime or criminal threatening.

What if he had a rifle and not a handgun and he came on to his porch to confront the trespasser is that criminal threatening??... no place or way to holster a rifle...

He was well within his legal right to have a firearm in his hand while on his property.

[Heaven]

This was a jury trial, right? Twelve people listened to this case being argued and unanimously decided this gentlleman was guilty of criminal threatening. The thing I can't figure out is where the heck did they find 12 peple who thought this was criminal threatening? We can all scream at the top of our lungs about the law, and the judge, and the attorneys, but if this was a jury trial then 12 other NH citizens made the decision to to return a guilty verdict. How on earth did not one of them say "hmm... I think something iis wrong here?"

Was this somehow not a jury trial?
I think one would have had to be on the jury, or at least in the courtroom, before making a judgement.

[brk-lnt]

So let me get this straight.... If I hear someone rustling outside of my house at night and I grab my handgun and run out to investigate I'm guilty of criminal threatening because it's not in a holster?? NOT!!

Holster or un-holstered has nothing to do with criminal threatening. He would of had to point it at her and or threaten to shoot her. Simply having the gun in his hand and un-holstered is not a crime or criminal threatening.

What if he had a rifle and not a handgun and he came on to his porch to confront the trespasser is that criminal threatening??... no place or way to holster a rifle...

He was well within his legal right to have a firearm in his hand while on his property.

Exactly how the gun was visually presented seems to be debated, and certainly far from clearly discernable based on what we have to go by here.

Given that this went to court, and was heard by a jury, I'm thinking there is more to it than he "unholstered it to check the safety".

If you are a responsible gun owner and pay attention to past cases and so forth, one of the first things you tend to figure out is that the person on the business end of the gun is going to perceive the situation very differently than yourself. The weapon should not be unholstered unless you actually intend to use it, and even in this case there is much room for interpretation.

IMO, the "warning" call his niece made to him probably worked against his defense. It would be one thing if this woman just showed up on his property completely randomly and out of context. However, with him having been warned that she was coming, and was looking for real estate (and not intending to harm or threaten him) it makes his rationale for making his weapon visible to her in ANY manner much more delicate.

This is certainly an area of the law that needs further clarification. IMO, a NH property owner should be free to carry and present a firearm on their own property under reasonable circumstances. Although, even with a legal right to do so, I'm not in favor of brandishing a firearm as a way of making a threat. I think it both exposes you to legal issues, and from a practical defense standpoint gives a legitimate adversary too much opportunity to react and/or present their own weapon.

A more all around practical approach to dealing with trespassers on your property is to keep the firearm in a small-of-the-back holster, with your hand on the weapon if necessary. This stance would indicate to most logical people that you have some kind of weapon at the ready, without actually revealing said weapon. I'd also recommend that if you intend to carry a weapon on your own property, or in a concealed manner in public, that you practice at a gun range with the weapon in the stored position. Being able to fluidly draw, aim, un-safety, and fire the weapon should be a smooth, continuous second-nature maneuver.

[fatlazyless]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record here.....but you is probably much better off running out the door with a kitchen broom and just go shake the broom at the stranger than using a gun.....guns just escalate the situation...and besides, after all is said and you go back inside....you already are all worked up....so's you might as well go sweep the floor!

No way, can you sweep the floor with a Colt .45!

Message here: carry a broom and you get to clean up! But, carry a gun and you get three to six years in a very small, steel and masonry, slammer door, prison cell!

And what does the defense attorney get....maybe a second new Mercedes just for the weekends!

[Irrigation Guy]

Been watching and reading this for a while and have a silly question. Was this woman charged with trespassing? I have not read or heard anything about it and it would seem to me she clearly was trespassing.

Oh, and my opinion is that the punishment does not fit the crime.

[brk-lnt]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record here.....but you is probably much better off running out the door with a kitchen broom and just go shake the broom at the stranger than using a gun.

Why do you keep making this asinine comment? Had the trespasser been an actual threat with intent to harm, a broom would have been to no benefit to anyone other than Harry Potter. Your "advice" is foolhardy, repetitive, tasteless and long past its expiration date.

[hazelnut]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record here.....but you is probably much better off running out the door with a kitchen broom and just go shake the broom at the stranger than using a gun.....guns just escalate the situation...and besides, after all is said and you go back inside....you already are all worked up....so's you might as well go sweep the floor!

No way, can you sweep the floor with a Colt .45!

Message here: carry a broom and you get to clean up! But, carry a gun and you get three to six years in a very small, steel and masonry, slammer door, prison cell!

And what does the defense attorney get....maybe a second new Mercedes just for the weekends!

Every time I read this comment all I can think about is one of those old fashioned tombstones with the following Phrase:

"Here lies fatlazyless he came to a gunfight with a broom" :laugh:

All kidding aside less you assume that every trespasser comes on your land unarmed? A trespasser is sometimes knowingly breaking the law and occasionally may be armed. So if you run out on your porch waving a broom around you may actually escalate a situation with a criminal in which they pull a gun. Then what?

I'm not saying that was the case in this situation but you are painting some mighty broad brushstrokes with that broom of yours. ;)

[ishoot308]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record here.....but you is probably much better off running out the door with a kitchen broom and just go shake the broom at the stranger than using a gun.....guns just escalate the situation...and besides, after all is said and you go back inside....you already are all worked up....so's you might as well go sweep the floor!

No way, can you sweep the floor with a Colt .45!

Message here: carry a broom and you get to clean up! But, carry a gun and you get three to six years in a very small, steel and masonry, slammer door, prison cell!

And what does the defense attorney get....maybe a second new Mercedes just for the weekends!

Yeah right, and I am sure the Mont Vernon mother who who was recently murdered and her young daughter who barely survived the attack wishes she had a broom to defend herself and daughter against the machete wielding punks who invaded their home!!

Get real man!!

[MarkinNH]

Been watching and reading this for a while and have a silly question. Was this woman charged with trespassing? I have not read or heard anything about it and it would seem to me she clearly was trespassing.

Oh, and my opinion is that the punishment does not fit the crime.

No ! This woman was not charged with anything.
I would love to here an answer from both the Moultonborough police and the Carroll County Attourney Robin Gordon as to why this was.
As I said earlier in the thread. Robin Gordon hates men and always takes the womans side. I wonder why ? ;) ;)

[Yosemite Sam]

Criminal trespass is the act of entering a property not owned by you without the permission of the owner. It can be as simple as walking into a house unannounced, or as serious as entering a home or business to commit a robbery, vandalism or other crimes. Penalties depend on the jurisdiction where the crime was committed (federal, state, local) but in general, criminal trespassing is prosecuted in most jurisdictions as a misdemeanor or a low-grade felony.

Below are the different degrees of trespassing and there penalties.

I think that Harris falls into the "Simple Trespass" category.

First-Degree
1. Generally speaking, a person commits first-degree criminal trespass when he knowingly enters and/or remains on a property or in a building knowing he is not licensed or given permission to be there by the owner or a representative. A person also commits first-degree trespass if he enters a residence or building in violation of a restraining or protective order issued by a court. The penalty for a first-time offender in many local jurisdictions is up to one year in prison and a fine, but can vary depending on where the crime occurred.

Second Degree
2. A person can be charged with a second-degree criminal trespass when he/she enters or remains in a a home or building or property knowing he/she is not licensed or allowed to be there. If convicted the penalty can be in many jurisdictions up to six months in prison and a $1,000 fine, or both.

Third Degree
3. A person who enters a property knowing he/she is not licensed or allowed to be there or enters an area that is posted or fenced in to keep out intruders can be convicted of third-degree criminal trespassing. The penalty in many jurisdictions is up to three months in prison, a $500 fine, or both.

Simple Trespass
4. A person who knowingly enters a private property but does not show any intent to harm the property or individuals can be charged with simple trespassing. The penalty in most jurisdictions is usually a summons, which does not appear on your criminal record.

Filing Charges
5. Most local police departments and law enforcement agencies consider trespassing a nuisance offense and rarely prosecute. Only when an individual violates the law more than once will police generally take action. That is not the case when an individual trespasses on property during the commission of a crime, where offender is nearly often charged with trespassing in addition to other, usually more serious charges.

[MarkinNH]

Yosemite Sam,
Why do you think Harris falls under the category of "Simple Trespass" rather then say, "Third Degree Trespass" ? The property she was on illegally was clearly posted to keep intruders out. Per your own explanation of the different levels, that seems to fall clearly under the "3rd Degree" category.

[Yosemite Sam]

Yosemite Sam,
Why do you think Harris falls under the category of "Simple Trespass" rather then say, "Third Degree Trespass" ? The property she was on illegally was clearly posted to keep intruders out. Per your own explanation of the different levels, that seems to fall clearly under the "3rd Degree" category.

Because Harris appeared to be lost and had no criminal intent when she entered Bird’s property, I think that it would be difficult to charge her with “Third Degree”.
She did trespass on posted land and I guess she could be charged with ‘Third Degree” trespassing but IMHO it would be a waste of time to do it.

I guess Ward Bird is the one who needs to make that decision.

[fatlazyless]

If any of you have ever tried to find a property location in the small, narrow, windy, wooded, unpaved roads of Moultonborough, then you know it is very easy to get lost. A 'Class 6' road is this type road's classification, and they are way down at the bottom of the list of road classes, which makes it VERY LOW CLASS. Living on a low class, Class 6 road, is not necessarily a bad thing, and probably a number of residents like it that way for its back woods privacy and livability and remote location.

These roads commonly do not get snow-plowed by the local town, are not paved, have no street lights, no water-sewer, no sidewalks, no town designated signs, and not enough room for a school bus to make a three point turn around. For signs, you typically see home-made, hand painted sign boards that get attached to a tree along the way or down by the last intersection or somewhere. Moultonborough has quite a large number of class 6 roads, and many will take you all the way down to the Lake Winnipesaukee waterfront where you can find a three million dollar mcmansion on a one acre lot that's just next door to a fifty-five year old, two bed cottage.

Best to go during daylight hours if you are unfamiliar and searching for a home address. My personal experience has been second hand shopping used sailboat, catarmaran, wood stove, or rowboat where someone bought a cottage or something and inherited an oldie-moldie boat that been up the hill beyond the garage for many years, etc, and they just want it gonzo.

Today's Nov 30 www.laconiadailysun.com has a lengthy front page article on this Ward Bird conviction and imprisonment.

[Yosemite Sam]

If any of you have ever tried to find a property location in the small, narrow, windy, wooded, unpaved roads of Moultonborough, then you know it is very easy to get lost. A 'Class 6' road is this type road's classification, and they are way down at the bottom of the list of road classes, which makes it VERY LOW CLASS. Living on a low class, Class 6 road, is not necessarily a bad thing, and probably a number of residents like it that way for its back woods privacy and livability.

These roads commonly do not get snow-plowed by the local town, are not paved, have no street lights, no water-sewer, no sidewalks, and no town designated signs. For signs, you typically see home-made, hand painted sign boards that get attached to a tree along the way or down by the last intersection or somewhere. Moultonborough has quite a large number of class 6 roads, and many will take you to the Lake Winnipesaukee waterfront.

Best to go during daylight hours if you are unfamiliar and searching for a home address. My personal experience has been second hand shopping used sailboat, catarmaran, wood stove, or rowboat where someone bought a cottage or something and inherited an oldie-moldie boat that been up the hill beyond their new garage for many years, etc.

Today's Nov 30 www.laconiadailysun.com has a lengthy front page article on this Ward Bird conviction and imprisonment.



You can read the LDS paper with the PDF format here (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2010/11/30L.pdf)....I think it is easier to read. :)

[tummyman]

Please check your facts before just posting stuff. Moultonborough has very few Class 6 roads. Most are "Private"...not owned by the town and abandoned for maintenance, etc. which is what puts them in Class 6 status. Second, these roads are plowed in winter. I don't see your comments adding a lot............ Why don't you muse on the Erica Blizzard situation. She killed a person and I believe got one month in jail. Please use your skills to argue why her sentence was fair vs. the Ward Bird punishment.

[fatlazyless]

Talking about Erica Blizzard, it's probably a good time to just forget about her, and leave her alone. Justice isn't perfect, but she was tried by a jury of 12 in Belknap County court in Laconia, which is her home town, and the vote was 7-5, and 8-4 on the two real serious charges. Not guilty is not guilty, and that's the way the justice system worked.

To get a conviction, it requires a jury of twelve to vote 12-0, which must be very difficult to do. Just think about what it would take to get twelve different posters on this forum to all agree similarly.

..................

Hey, that link in post #135 is terrific and is definately the best way to read the LaDaSun so thanks for that!

And, the LaDaSun article was written by someone named Michael Cousineau from the NH Sunday Times which is the Sunday edition of the Union Leader, and the Union Leader has been editorialy supporting Ward Bird.

[RailroadJoe]

The Supreme Court only needs a majority. Not all have to agree. Why not other trial using the majority?

[Argie's Wife]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record here.....but you is probably much better off running out the door with a kitchen broom and just go shake the broom at the stranger than using a gun.....guns just escalate the situation...and besides, after all is said and you go back inside....you already are all worked up....so's you might as well go sweep the floor!

No way, can you sweep the floor with a Colt .45!

Message here: carry a broom and you get to clean up! But, carry a gun and you get three to six years in a very small, steel and masonry, slammer door, prison cell!

And what does the defense attorney get....maybe a second new Mercedes just for the weekends!

You don't watch zombie movies, do you?

[Yosemite Sam]

I wonder if Bird met the following requirements for posting signs?


Under state law (RSA 635:4), the legal manner of posting calls for posting durable signs with any words describing the physical activity prohibited, such as "No Hunting or Trespassing," in letters at least 2 inches high, and with the owner's name and address. The signs may be no further than 100 yards apart on all sides of the property and shall also be posted at gates, bars and all commonly used entrances.

These are the signs that Bird has on his property:

[MarkinNH]

Because Harris appeared to be lost and had no criminal intent when she entered Bird’s property, I think that it would be difficult to charge her with “Third Degree”.
She did trespass on posted land and I guess she could be charged with ‘Third Degree” trespassing but IMHO it would be a waste of time to do it.

I guess Ward Bird is the one who needs to make that decision.

She SAY's she was lost, which I don't believe for a second. She was given precise and clear directions to the property she wanted to see. She knowingly and purpesly entered private property, ignoring pricise instructions and ignoring the clearly posted signs.
I know this area. It is ONE way in and ONE way out. There is NO getting lost. for the average person with half a brain it is impossible.

[sa meredith]

I'm very late to this thread...and have not read the whole thing thru...so if my question has already been addressed, I'm sorry.
But, as I read this story in the UL on Sunday, all I could think is, "what is this guy hiding?" I mean, you want to take a walk on my property? No big deal. I may ask if I can help you with something, but I'm not going to point a gun at you, and ask you to get out. I may invite you in for a beer, though. Now, granted, I don't have all the facts. There is probably more to it...something like, people are always passing thru there, and he is sick of it...or something like that. But if not, what is the big deal? Why does he feel threatened?
We all like to come across like nice, friendly, NH folk...but this sort of flies in the face....no?????

[hazelnut]

I'm very late to this thread...and have not read the whole thing thru...so if my question has already been addressed, I'm sorry.
But, as I read this story in the UL on Sunday, all I could think is, "what is this guy hiding?" I mean, you want to take a walk on my property? No big deal. I may ask if I can help you with something, but I'm not going to point a gun at you, and ask you to get out. I may invite you in for a beer, though. Now, granted, I don't have all the facts. There is probably more to it...something like, people are always passing thru there, and he is sick of it...or something like that. But if not, what is the big deal? Why does he feel threatened?
We all like to come across like nice, friendly, NH folk...but this sort of flies in the face....no?????

I'm not sure if this particular question has been raised in this thread sa. I guess it's a valid question. I mean me personally I would not have done what Mr. Bird did. There are many on this thread that agree with the statement that you have made. If it were my wife that Ward Bird waived the gun at you can bet I'd be pretty pissed off. Especially if she was only lost looking for help.

Here's the deal though. This woman was most likely NOT lost. This woman was also most likely hostile. Ward was injured and probably physically in pain and limited. Maybe he felt her aggressions warranted a threat. I don't know if we will ever know.

Let's take all of the personal information out of the equation now. Let's go back to the root of this thing. We can never know for sure what Ward was actually thinking or feeling and we will never know 100% how the woman was behaving at the time. Anything I have said has been pure speculation and all my points have been raised in order to show a particular case in which pulling out a firearm might be justifiable. Here are my critical questions that I would like to have answered:

At what point is it legal for one to pull out a firearm in order to protect themselves on their own property? Is there ANY time where this is legal? What if Ward was a woman and the trespasser was a Man? If my wife was home with my kids and a large man was peering in the windows and he wouldn't leave could she pull a gun out? Would a case like that even be prosecuted? I have raised these question in a prior post but nobody has offered an opinion.

Finally sa and this is the absolute most important question, I pose this to you FLL and anyone else that has an opinion in this case: Does the punishment fit the crime? The Judge didn't think so. Do you?

[MarkinNH]

I'm very late to this thread...and have not read the whole thing thru...so if my question has already been addressed, I'm sorry.
But, as I read this story in the UL on Sunday, all I could think is, "what is this guy hiding?" I mean, you want to take a walk on my property? No big deal. I may ask if I can help you with something, but I'm not going to point a gun at you, and ask you to get out. I may invite you in for a beer, though. Now, granted, I don't have all the facts. There is probably more to it...something like, people are always passing thru there, and he is sick of it...or something like that. But if not, what is the big deal? Why does he feel threatened?
We all like to come across like nice, friendly, NH folk...but this sort of flies in the face....no?????

There is No proof or any corroborating witness's, that he ever pointed a gun at anybody. Only the woman "saying" that he waved it in her face.

[Yosemite Sam]

Finally sa and this is the absolute most important question, I pose this to you FLL and anyone else that has an opinion in this case: Does the punishment fit the crime? The Judge didn't think so. Do you?


Yes, the punishment fits the crime if the crime is “criminal threatening under RSA 631:4 (2007)”.

IMHO I think the “Judge” should have left his personal feelings out of this.

If you would have asked me if I think Bird should have been charged with criminal threatening, my answer would be NO.
Unfortunately Bird and Harris collided and this whole thing got out of control. Bad lawyers, a bad Judge and lack of knowledge of the law/laws.

[NoRegrets]

What if the case involved a baseball bat instead of a gun. Would there be the same outcome of a trial or are we "Gun Phobic"?

If the same complaint was made, assuming it is one's word against the others. Change the weapon from a gun to a bat, knife, sword, rock, bow and arrow, spear, or anything that can be construed a threat. How would the case be handled?

I bet this thread would not exist.

[DoTheMath]

My question - one of many I suppose in all of this - is, did she come up and ring the bell FIRST, as most people would do when approaching a strange house? Or did, she just get out of her car and start walking around the property, looking in the windows, etc? If you come up and ring my bell, I'm certainly not coming to the door armed for bear, heck - don't want to scare the Girl Scout selling me cookies :). However, if you are walking around my house and peering in my windows, I'm going to be curious and slightly on the defensive. Do I approach you with a firearm first, highly unlikely, and prob. not what Ward did either. Am I mentally - and possibly otherwise - prepared for a confrontation in the event it goes that way, likely. But it will start out with a "can I help you?" and it's up to the trespasser to answer "correctly" and progress the conversation civilly from there. Remember, you are on MY property, it is up to YOU to make nice and explain your reasons for being there in the first place. I live there, I own the place, it's my domain. You have come on to my property - with out my permission, passed a number of no trespassing signs and are poking around!? You had better be ready to talk and I had better like what you are about to say, or else (I think) we have a problem.

So, what was said between them and the timing of the events is key to all of this. However - I still maintain that he got the short end of the stick and was wronged on many levels, period!

[fatlazyless]

What if the case involved a baseball bat instead of a gun. .... Would there be the same outcome of a trial or are we "Gun Phobic"? .... I bet this thread would not exist.

You are correct...I agree with you...and for that reason the "waving a broom" which is less threatening than a bat is even a more appropriate self defense tool. Had Ward Bird had the learned NH legal sense to hold a bat or a broom down by his side in as non-threatening a manner as possible, then it's probably most likely that the Carrol County attorney would definately not have prosecuted him for felony threatening.

Most likely the tresspassing woman would not have filed a complaint in the first place....and it would be basically a non-incident......just a small faux pas!

[Yosemite Sam]

What if the case involved a baseball bat instead of a gun. Would there be the same outcome of a trial or are we "Gun Phobic"?

If the same complaint was made, assuming it is one's word against the others. Change the weapon from a gun to a bat, knife, sword, rock, bow and arrow, spear, or anything that can be construed a threat. How would the case be handled?

I bet this thread would not exist.

I don't think we are getting "Gun Phobic". The law is very clear when it comes to firearms. However, it is left up to interpretation when it comes to bats, knifes, swords, rocks, bow and arrows, and spears though.

Here is what the law says about your question (and it is a good queston):

TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 625
PRELIMINARY


Section 625:11
625:11 General Definitions. – The following definitions apply to this code.
I. "Conduct'' means an action or omission, and its accompanying state of mind, or, a series of acts or omissions.
II. "Person'', "he'', and "actor'' include any natural person and, a corporation or an unincorporated association.
III. "Element of an offense'' means such conduct, or such attendant circumstances, or such a result of conduct as:
(a) Is included in the definition of the offense; or
(b) Establishes the required kind of culpability; or
(c) Negatives an excuse or justification for such conduct; or
(d) Negatives a defense under the statute of limitations; or
(e) Establishes jurisdiction or venue.
IV. "Material element of an offense'' means an element that does not relate exclusively to the statute of limitations, jurisdiction, venue or to any other matter similarly unrelated to (1) the harm sought to be prevented by the definition of the offense, or (2) any justification or excuse for the prescribed conduct.
V. "Deadly weapon'' means any firearm, knife or other substance or thing which, in the manner it is used, intended to be used, or threatened to be used, is known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury.
VI. "Serious bodily injury'' means any harm to the body which causes severe, permanent or protracted loss of or impairment to the health or of the function of any part of the body.
Source. 1971, 518:1, eff. Nov. 1, 1973.

[fatlazyless]

Yes, a gun unlike a knife has pretty much just one purpose, while a broom has both a broom handle on one end and a straw broom end at the other so it is perceived to be much less threatening. One can say something like; "While sweeping the floor, I heard a tap-tap-tap on the window so I stepped outside to see who was there?" if a county attorney decides it is reasonable to throw the book at you for defending yourself with a broom.

[DickR]

Hazlenut said: "We can never know for sure what Ward was actually thinking or feeling and we will never know 100% how the woman was behaving at the time."

He's right, of course. But neither could the jury know, for sure. Wouldn't that uncertainty have constituted "reasonable doubt," preventing a conviction?

Should Ward be released? - yes, we think so.

Was he an "unintended consequence" of a perhaps poorly crafted law? - yes, we think so.

Did the case get out of hand, driven by personalities? - yes, we think so.

Can we really resolve the case on this forum, knowing less than what presumably the jury knew? - probably not.

[MarkinNH]

You are correct...I agree with you...and for that reason the "waving a broom" which is less threatening than a bat is even a more appropriate self defense tool. Had Ward Bird had the learned NH legal sense to hold a bat or a broom down by his side in as non-threatening a manner as possible, then it's probably most likely that the Carrol County attorney would definitely not have prosecuted him for felony threatening.

Most likely the tresspassing woman would not have filed a complaint in the first place....and it would be basically a non-incident......just a small faux pas!

I have lived in NH for 40+ years and I have Never heard that holding a bat or a broom was considered "the learned NH legal sense" as a defense tool. I am not sure of just what that term is supposed to mean. Does the term actually exist, or is it something you just conjured up in your own little mind ?
Maybe we should issue all our soldiers and law enforcement personnel brooms and take away their firearms. I am sure they will feel much safer ! I am also sure that the mere presence of someone brandishing a broom will surely stop all the bad guys and girls in their tracks !! :rolleye2:
I can guarantee you that if you show up uninvited and unwelcome on my privately posted property and start wandering around unannounced, it won't be a useless bat or a broom I will be holding when I come out to find out who you are and what the hell you want !!
The reasons for which I say that and mean it are simple. I don't know you ! I don't know what your intentions are ! and you could easily be armed !
Am I going to take a chance and just assume your there to pick flowers and come prancing out with a useless broom as you suggest ? I Don't Think So !!!
You will hopefully never give me a reason to let you know it's there but it will be there.

[Pineedles]

Yes, a gun unlike a knife has pretty much just one purpose

And if I may be so stupid as to ask, what one purpose is that?

[sa meredith]

Maybe my real question is this...does anyone in this forum know this person, and his land? I guess I was curious if at some point he has been invloved with a land dipute with neighbors, and is therefore trying to prevent any sale of abutting property. Therefore protecting his privacy or property value. That might make more sense. If he is trying to somehow block a sale, I can understand his hostility toward a potential buyer.
Or even if he is just known to locals as a "grumpy old man"...things like this might make the situation a bit more understandable.
Someone here must know...
As to other issues brought up here...specifically, when would I think it OK to pull a gun. I would say, I guess if someone is trying to force their way into the house, unannounced, without knocking...I'm shooting, never mind "pulling the gun". Fire away.
But, for someone passing thru my property, unannounced or otherwise. As long as there are no unusual circumstances (like they are holding a weapon, or appear to be mentally/emotionally deficient) I don't think I'd consider self defense. Unless I asked them to stay put, and they continued toward me. Or somehow began acting erractic. But if they asked directions, or said they were just passing thru...no problem.
If I had asked this guy directions, or some simple question about some land I thought he might be familiar with, and he kibeyed out, and pulled weapon, I'd call him an ***** as well. If I thought he had pointed the weapon at me, I'd call the police as well.
Anyway...someone must know...is this just grumpy old man syndrom?

[MarkinNH]

sa meredith,
I have known ward for close to 20 years. A grumpy old man he is not. As far as there being some kind of land dispute, I am not aware of one.
The side of the mountain where Ward and his family live, has been in his wifes family for as long as I have lived in the lakes region. I used to help my father check the electrical connections on the lift towers every winter when Wards father in law operated the ski slope.
There good decent hard working people.

[sa meredith]

So, as stated earlier, I knew very little about the case, but posted a couple of times anyway..but have now done some research...
HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE OPENED FIRE!
I know who this woman is...I live in the same town where she was constantly bothered by neighbors about her house/trailor. Anyone who has an even mild affection for animals would want this woman gone. When she was in the news a few years back, I took a drive by her place, just to see what all the fuss was....HOLY CHRIST... how could anyone live like the that. The smell alone, FROM OUTSIDE, was simply unbearable. And, yes, she is very abrasive. A very confrontational person...at least this is what is common knowledge in town. I have never had any dealing with her directly. I believe they removered 50 some odd animals from her home. Obviosly neglected. Heart breaking...just heart breaking. Many could not be saved. Many people donated to save some of them thru surgury etc... most were adopted.
Anyway...this is a stange person, to be sure....
I retract any negative comments I may have made about Bird...in a million years, I would not want this woman around me...no where near.
I have no doubt there are two sides to this story...
In case you are interested:

http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1876390199/Police-seize-dogs-from-Salem-home-owner-charged-with-assault

[brk-lnt]

But, as I read this story in the UL on Sunday, all I could think is, "what is this guy hiding?"

I doubt he's hiding anything, I think he just wants to be left alone and does not appreciate unwelcome people wandering around on his property. Maybe a bit of an anti-social attitude, but one I think he is entitled to if it's what suits him.

[Yosemite Sam]

So, as stated earlier, I knew very little about the case, but posted a couple of times anyway..but have now done some research...
HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE OPENED FIRE!
I know who this woman is...I live in the same town where she was constantly bothered by neighbors about her house/trailor. Anyone who has an even mild affection for animals would want this woman gone. When she was in the news a few years back, I took a drive by her place, just to see what all the fuss was....HOLY CHRIST... how could anyone live like the that. The smell alone, FROM OUTSIDE, was simply unbearable. And, yes, she is very abrasive. A very confrontational person...at least this is what is common knowledge in town. I have never had any dealing with her directly. I believe they removered 50 some odd animals from her home. Obviosly neglected. Heart breaking...just heart breaking. Many could not be saved. Many people donated to save some of them thru surgury etc... most were adopted.
Anyway...this is a stange person, to be sure....
I retract any negative comments I may have made about Bird...in a million years, I would not want this woman around me...no where near.
I have no doubt there are two sides to this story...
In case you are interested:

http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1876390199/Police-seize-dogs-from-Salem-home-owner-charged-with-assault



I read the article that you posted and found an interesting statment that came from a couple by the name of Jeffrey and Kay Bird. They live/lived near Harris when she was having a problem with the animals and police.
Does anyone know if they are related to Ward Bird?

This is what the article said:

Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home.
"A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch. Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules."

[Resident 2B]

I read the article that you posted and found an interesting statment that came from a couple by the name of Jeffrey and Kay Bird. They live/lived near Harris when she was having a problem with the animals and police.
Does anyone know if they are related to Ward Bird?

This is what the article said:

Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home.
"A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch. Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules."

YS,

So what!

I know of a basketball player that played in Boston years ago who liked animals. His first name is Larry. I wonder if there is a connection there? :laugh:

I see no importance at all in whatever you are trying to connect.

R2B

[Yosemite Sam]

YS,

So what!

I know of a basketball player that played in Boston years ago who liked animals. His first name is Larry. I wonder if there is a connection there? :laugh:

I see no importance at all in whatever you are trying to connect.

R2B

You're right....Silly me :D

[twoplustwo]

sa meredith,
I have known ward for close to 20 years. A grumpy old man he is not. As far as there being some kind of land dispute, I am not aware of one.
The side of the mountain where Ward and his family live, has been in his wifes family for as long as I have lived in the lakes region. I used to help my father check the electrical connections on the lift towers every winter when Wards father in law operated the ski slope.
There good decent hard working people.

Ditto most of that. The parcel in question is still in the family, and yes there have been family disputes over it's sale as it was intended to always be in the family. The volatility of those disputes has always originated on the other side, not from Ward and Ginny.

I've known Ward, Ginny and their kids for almost as long as MarkinNH has, and they are wonderful people. I would not hesitate for a moment to let my children hang out up there.

[fatlazyless]

And if I may be so stupid as to ask, what one purpose is that?

Most handguns are expensive, high quality design, high quality steel, precision made mechanisms that are capable of repeatedly firing hundreds and even thousands of rounds, and get treated accordingly by their owners. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the butt of a handgun handle would ever get used as a hammer, or that the barrel would get used as a prybar. Basically, a handgun gets used for its' one and only intended purpose and that is to fire a bullet. And yes, it is much more likely "to have a gun and not need one, than to need one and not have one" which strongly alludes to having a handgun for self defense without ever firing a round, which is still based on the gun's single purpose which is to fire a round.

A knife is indeed a very different type of a weapon, because by its' design a knife can be used for a number of non-weapon uses such as slicing an apple, scraping an old state inspection sticker off a windshield, or opening up the top on a can of tuna fish if you had no can opener.

Here's a simple question for you? If you needed to remove a state inspection sticker from a windshield would you ever use your Colt 45 as a scraper tool? Sure, it is probably possible to find a corner edge on a handgun to work as a scraper but would you ever honestly be doing that?
.................

Growing up in Massachusetts, I learned to differentiate between the concept of self-protection when inside one's dwelling, ie house, apartment, condo, etc, and self-protection when on one's land. It is my view that the justice system in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire take a dim view on showing a hand gun when out on one's land, but do indeed take a much less negative view on showing or pointing a handgun when inside one's dwelling as a defensive action.

As I see by reading through all these posts it does not appear that this concept of differentiating the use of a handgun when inside your house as opposed to outside on the land has been discussed. That was always a primary issue in Massachusetts to be considered when thinking about the legal system and the appropriate law and how it thought along the issue of self-defense for inside and for outside. In Massachusetts, I'm pretty sure it makes a big difference.

..................

"You watch zombie movies, do you?" ... Argie's Wife

Yes, I'm a long time, big fan of zombie movies! And back in 1974 I got to play the lead role in a little seen movie: "The Cockroach that Ate Cincinnati." Thanks for asking.......such a memory! .. :rolleye2:

[RI Swamp Yankee]

:offtopic:
.... And back in 1974 I got to play the lead role in a little seen movie: "The Cockroach that Ate Cincinnati." ....

The song The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati was released in 1974
........

The movie The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati was released in 1996
95 min - Comedy | Sci-Fi

Storyline
The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati is about rock & roll, hero worship, hallucinations, drugs, madness, myth, rebellion and the search for individual integrity in a world on the brink of cultural and physical self-destruction. Written by Michael McNamara

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115919/

*** sigh ***

[tis]

Poor Ward Bird is not the only one who got a crazy sentence. Did you hear about the 27 year old guy in NJ (I think it was) who had 2 legal guns in his car and is spending 7 years in prison. How do these judges come up with these sentences. Yet the Supreme Court just ruled that an illegal who used his own name but another's ss number to get a job didn't do anything wrong. Could it be it is politically incorrect to blame an illegal for anything??? Give me a break. (Not to go off topic but just to show how unfair things are sometimes.)

[JDeere]

I guess I like many of you I only know the story about what happened from other people who claim to know what happened. The version I heard was the Bird was recovering from hernia surgery and not something more serious. I am told he is a large man and hernia surgery or not I very, very much doubt that this woman posed any type of threat to Bird. Finally, I have no idea what type of gun he had but many guns do not have a safety, regardless I do not find it credible that he removed the gun to check the safety.
I am not a believer in mandatory sentencing however Bird flat out was wrong to remove his gun with the implied threat of deadly force when there was no reason whatsoever for him to believe his life was in and danger.
So, before you all bash me I am not saying he should have received 3 years in prison but on the other hand does anyone want people “waving” a gun just because someone ignoramus trespassed on your property?

[fatlazyless]

When people have an injury and have the pain of healing and recovery it can easily alter their usual good judgement as to how they react to other people. Basically, sometimes people just get cranky and do something dopey.

All things considered, based on his life history, a much more just sentence would be to let Ward go free. No shots fired, no harm done, no big deal, everybody has a temper and sometimes their temper may show its' bad side especially when recovering from a medical operation.

It is incredibly unfair that Ward is stuck away in a prison cell for what may or may not have happened considering there is no personal injuries here.......no bruises, no blood, no marks, no scrapes, NO NOTHING!

And, let's not forget the big impact of the huge legal expense for Ward to get to this place legally. Hiring a defense attorney is very expensive, with all payments up-front, and having this whole event drag out from 2006 must be very difficult.

The whole Carrol County legal process here is a BIG STINKER!

Had I been sitting on that jury, and I usually like to disagree with people, I would have held out as one vs eleven, and not been swayed just to get the trial over and done with. It just takes one out of eleven to get a 'no decision' aka a 'hung jury' which ends the trial with no finding of guilt and may lead to a second new trial.

[MarkinNH]

I guess I like many of you I only know the story about what happened from other people who claim to know what happened. The version I heard was the Bird was recovering from hernia surgery and not something more serious. I am told he is a large man and hernia surgery or not I very, very much doubt that this woman posed any type of threat to Bird. Finally, I have no idea what type of gun he had but many guns do not have a safety, regardless I do not find it credible that he removed the gun to check the safety.
I am not a believer in mandatory sentencing however Bird flat out was wrong to remove his gun with the implied threat of deadly force when there was no reason whatsoever for him to believe his life was in and danger.
So, before you all bash me I am not saying he should have received 3 years in prison but on the other hand does anyone want people “waving” a gun just because someone ignoramus trespassed on your property?

The surgery he was recovering from was for a Ruptured Abdominal Aorta !
There is No proof that he "pulled the gun out" to imply a threat. Only the womans say so, that he waved it in her face.
You obviously no Very Little about firearms ! Short of revolvers, Most All modern firearms have safety's. I find it quite credible that he removed the gun from the holster to check the safety as he reentered his house. It would have been a conscious act of a responsible gun owner. I own and actively carry and I frequently check the status of my weapons safety.
There is also No proof that he "waved a gun" again, only this womans say so. His word against hers.
Read the letters on this website from people who know Ward Bird, http://freewardbird.org/
there is even one letter that will give you some history of what kind of person this Christine Harris really is and there is also the recent post from "sa meredith" who has personal knowledge of this woman.
Do some research and reading up on this woman and decide for yourself if you think she was really a credible person who was being honest and truthful with her testimony or is it possible she would have said anything to cover her a$$ and make everybody believe she was a poor innocent victim.

[Pineedles]

Most handguns are expensive, high quality design, high quality steel, precision made mechanisms that are capable of repeatedly firing hundreds and even thousands of rounds, and get treated accordingly by their owners. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the butt of a handgun handle would ever get used as a hammer, or that the barrel would get used as a prybar. Basically, a handgun gets used for its' one and only intended purpose and that is to fire a bullet. And yes, it is much more likely "to have a gun and not need one, than to need one and not have one" which strongly alludes to having a handgun for self defense without ever firing a round, which is still based on the gun's single purpose which is to fire a round.

A knife is indeed a very different type of a weapon, because by its' design a knife can be used for a number of non-weapon uses such as slicing an apple, scraping an old state inspection sticker off a windshield, or opening up the top on a can of tuna fish if you had no can opener.

Here's a simple question for you? If you needed to remove a state inspection sticker from a windshield would you ever use your Colt 45 as a scraper tool? Sure, it is probably possible to find a corner edge on a handgun to work as a scraper but would you ever honestly be doing that?
.................

Growing up in Massachusetts, I learned to differentiate between the concept of self-protection when inside one's dwelling, ie house, apartment, condo, etc, and self-protection when on one's land. It is my view that the justice system in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire take a dim view on showing a hand gun when out on one's land, but do indeed take a much less negative view on showing or pointing a handgun when inside one's dwelling as a defensive action.

:

Fire a bullet is an acceptable answer. At least you didn't say kill. However, I have many guns that not a single bullet has been fired from the muzzle and I don't intend to do so ever. They are collector issue guns. They will appreciate in value much more if they are not used for what you call, their one and only purpose. So, these firearms are non-weapons, imo.

Sorry for getting off topic. I believe Ward Bird was wrongly convicted and pray for his release.

[VitaBene]

Hazlenut said: "We can never know for sure what Ward was actually thinking or feeling and we will never know 100% how the woman was behaving at the time."

He's right, of course. But neither could the jury know, for sure. Wouldn't that uncertainty have constituted "reasonable doubt," preventing a conviction?

Should Ward be released? - yes, we think so.

Was he an "unintended consequence" of a perhaps poorly crafted law? - yes, we think so.

Did the case get out of hand, driven by personalities? - yes, we think so.

Can we really resolve the case on this forum, knowing less than what presumably the jury knew? - probably not.

I don't know how to sum it up any better than this!

[VitaBene]

I will add one further comment- never, ever make a statement to the Police without legal counsel.

NEVER!!

[MarkinNH]

I don't know how to sum it up any better than this!

Yes, some how I missed that post and I highly agree with you and DickR. Thank you for quoting him.
Several times I have told myself to just stay away from this thread, that I have said all I can and I am doing nothing more then arguing and repeating myself. Next thing I know, I am here running my mouth and posting again. :)

[sa meredith]

Couple of final thoughts for me...(in case you missed it, check out the link in post 156)
I'm curious, after reading about Bird's day in court, why the Harris woman's previous indiscretions with the law, and her history of mental instability, were not allowed to be entered. They are indeed so relevant. Here is a woman, who I know to very abrasive and confrontational, who has refused, in the past, to comply with an officer of the law, that had a search warrant in hand.
That smacked a tow truck driver trying to remove her two illegal cars from her trailor.
Who thought living in a trailor with 50 dogs was an "OK" thing.
Who has a history of acting, let's say..."a little off".
Bird probably realized pretty quickly her elevator didn't go all the way up, and wondered what her deal was.
Further more...and this is compete speculation...I seriously question her ability to enter into any finacial agreement to buy property.
So..adding everything together...perhaps she went there with some sort of agenda. Seems like simply math in the court of common sense.

[tis]

It's not allowed sa meredith.

[nvtngtxpyr]

I will add one further comment- never, ever make a statement to the Police without legal counsel.

NEVER!!

Excellent advice VB. Take the time to view the attached if you want to know why.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

[jeffatsquam]

Go to the laconia citz. for today's letters to the editor.

Letter from Gorden Blise re. Ward Bird.

He has had dealings with Chirstin (the combat-en) Harris

[hazelnut]

Go to the laconia citz. for today's letters to the editor.

Letter from Gorden Blise re. Ward Bird.

He has had dealings with Chirstin (the combat-en) Harris

Here it is for the less inclined:

Editor, The Citizen:

I have been following the recent events concerning the terrible travesty of justice concerning Moulntonborough resident Ward Bird. While I do not know Mr. Bird and have never met him, I feel I must speak out on his behalf.

From what I have read Mr. Bird has always been an outstanding citizen of our Lakes Region Community, a hard working man, who takes care of his family, pays his taxes, a man who can be trusted and always tries to do the right thing. He is now sitting in jail for exercising his constitutional right to protect his home and property against an intruder.

As it so happens I know the person who was the cause of this entire injustice. A few weeks before the incident on Mr. Bird's property I met this woman as part of a potential business deal and tried to work with her to meet the goals she was trying to attain. I can tell you for a fact that I quickly found out she was delusional, who was not thinking or acting in any way rational. She became angry and made accusations that were unfounded and absurd and I quickly broke off all dealings with her. After talking with other colleagues in my field I learned that others have had dealings with her before she came to me. They coined her with the nickname "the crazy lady". This incident I had with her occurred just a few weeks before her encounter with Mr. Bird.

As I understand things this woman has since been incarcerated for an animal cruelty conviction. I sincerely hope she is receiving the help she needs for mental health issues as I know she was clearly in need of that kind of assistance.

Also I believe none of these facts about her could be brought out at Mr. Bird's trial and she was portrayed as a poor innocent lady who was lost and had simply wandered onto his property by mistake. I do not believe that is true given what I know about this woman.

We all know that Amendment Two of the Bill of Rights in our Constitution states: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." But we also know that we are a nation of laws, and to allow everyone to brandish weapons against our fellow citizens at a whim would not be logical. So the states pass laws that regulate how citizens can use weapons under various circumstances. I understand that this is necessary otherwise chaos would reign and we would all be walking around armed all the time feeling we need this protection to defend ourselves. But clearly a man has a right to protect his home, family, and property, against an intruder whose motives are unclear. This is part of the core values of our American way of life.

I am not a lawyer, and I do not know all the specific details of the encounter Mr. Bird had with this woman, but from everything I have read, and what I know, I believe that Mr. Bird was unfairly convicted and incarcerated. After all, while a firearm was shown it was never fired and nobody was hurt in any way.

If a crime was committed, does this punishment fit? I think not.

I am calling on Governor Lynch to look into this matter immediately, and to free Mr. Bird, overturn his conviction, clear his record and bring him home to his family for the Christmas Holliday. Also to look into the laws that led to this man's unjust incarceration and rewrite them to allow the citizens to protect that which is ours, and those that we love.

I call on all the citizens of this great state to call their representatives and demand they put pressure on Governor Lynch to do the right thing. I feel so strongly about this that if he does not move to free Mr. Bird the citizens of this state ought to move for immediate impeachment. We must send a message to our elected officials that we the citizens have right to protect our families, and property and nothing less will be acceptable. LIVE FREE OR DIE.

Gordon Blais

Meredith

[ishoot308]

Gordon Blais couldn't have stated it any better!! He pretty much summed it all up.

Dan

[Yosemite Sam]

As it so happens I know the person who was the cause of this entire injustice. A few weeks before the incident on Mr. Bird's property I met this woman as part of a potential business deal and tried to work with her to meet the goals she was trying to attain. I can tell you for a fact that I quickly found out she was delusional, who was not thinking or acting in any way rational. She became angry and made accusations that were unfounded and absurd and I quickly broke off all dealings with her. After talking with other colleagues in my field I learned that others have had dealings with her before she came to me. They coined her with the nickname "the crazy lady". This incident I had with her occurred just a few weeks before her encounter with Mr. Bird.

As I understand things this woman has since been incarcerated for an animal cruelty conviction. I sincerely hope she is receiving the help she needs for mental health issues as I know she was clearly in need of that kind of assistance.

Gordon Blais

Meredith

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.....Why would a realtor who is affiliated with a well respected real-estate agency such as Maxfield Real Estate, Inc. make such slanderous remarks about one of his former clients. Also why would he make statements about what his colleagues think about Harris.

I don't know anything about the Code of Ethics for realtors, but there must be something written about client confidentiality.

I think if I owned Maxfield Real Estate, Inc., Mr. Bais would have some explaining to do.

[VitaBene]

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.....Why would a realtor who is affiliated with a well respected real-estate agency such as Maxfield Real Estate, Inc. make such slanderous remarks about one of his former clients. Also why would he make statements about what his colleagues think about Harris.

I don't know anything about the Code of Ethics for realtors, but there must be something written about client confidentiality.

I think if I owned Maxfield Real Estate, Inc., Mr. Bais would have some explaining to do.

Sam,

He never identifies himself as a Realtor nor which company he is affiliated with. We don't even know if it is RE deal. He actually goes out of his way to call it a business deal and not a RE deal.

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.

[ITD]

Sam,

......

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.


My thought exactly....

[Resident 2B]

Sam,

He never identifies himself as a Realtor nor which company he is affiliated with. We don't even know if it is RE deal. He actually goes out of his way to call it a business deal and not a RE deal.

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.

He is not listed on Maxfield's site as an agent either. My place has been for sale and the contract just ended. I like honest people that stand up for what they think is right. If he was with Maxfield, I was going to give him my listing.

R2B

[Yosemite Sam]

He is not listed on Maxfield's site as an agent either. My place has been for sale and the contract just ended. I like honest people that stand up for what they think is right. If he was with Maxfield, I was going to give him my listing.

R2B

http://www.luxuryrealestate.com/professionals/1232-gordon-blais

[Resident 2B]

Sam,

Thanks!

I'll contact him. I did not see him on their main site.

R2B

[Yosemite Sam]

Sam,

Thanks!

I'll contact him. I did not see him on their main site.

R2B

You are welcome and good luck. :)

[JDeere]

Does anyone own a Glock? Great gun....no safety.

Where any of you who are so adamant about this at the trial? Better yet where you there? I was not.

I hate to agree with anything FLL has to say but I too would not have convicted Bird.

[fatlazyless]

Does anyone own a Glock? Great gun....no safety

Sometime about two months ago, the LaDaSun had a photograph and article of the then candidate Jeannie Forester either holding or taking aim or something with her pink colored Glock pistol, and she went on to win the race and become State Senator (elect) Jeannie Forester for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

[MarkinNH]

Does anyone own a Glock? Great gun....no safety.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/glockpistols.htm 4th paragraph down.

"As for the rumors of a lack of safety, they were based on the fact that Glock handguns were one of, if not the first, semi-automatic handguns designed with no external safety lever. However, there are more safeties on a Glock handgun than there are on any revolver. The Glock handguns all have three safety mechanisms: 1) the trigger safety, 2) the firing pin safety, and c) the drop safety. The only way a Glock handgun will fire is for the trigger to be pulled fully to the rear. The Glock is neither a technically true Single Action, nor a Double Action. Glock calls its action the "Safe Action", which is close to a Double Action. The rumors of a lack of safety also stem from the integration of polymer into the receivers."

The following comes directly from Glocks website !

TRIGGER SYSTEM
The “Safe Action” system is a partly tensioned firing pin lock, which is moved further back by the trigger bar when the trigger is pulled.
When the trigger is pulled, 3 safety features are automatically deactivated one after another. When doing so, the trigger bar is deflected downward by the connector and the firing pin is released under full load. When the trigger is released, all three safety features re-engage and the GLOCK pistol is automatically secured again.


TRIGGER SAFETY
As the first of the three GLOCK “Safe Action” safety features, the trigger safety prevents inadvertent firing by lateral forces on the trigger. Releasing the trigger will automatically reactivate the safety

FIRING PIN SAFETY
The GLOCK firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin which, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel, rendering the igniting of a chambered cartridge by the firing pin impossible. The firing pin safety is only pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing when the trigger is pulled and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. Releasing the trigger will automatically reactivate the firing pin safety

DROP SAFETY
In the line of duty it may happen that a loaded pistol is dropped on the floor. Contrary to conventional pistols, the GLOCK drop safety prevents unintentional firing of a shot through hard impact. When the trigger is pulled, the trigger bar is guided in a precision safety ramp. The trigger bar is deflected from this ramp only in the moment the shot is triggered.

The internet is a Wonderful tool. :)

[JDeere]

Please. There is NO SAFETY on a GLOCK that you turn on or off. The "safety’s built into the trigger. Pull the trigger and that is it....bang! <O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>
As for guns with true safety I would assume (as I do) with those that have one that I keep the safety on. Why would I take it off unless I was prepared to fire? <O:p</O:p
<O:p></O:p>
Some of you are a bit gullible. Do you really believe that he was convicted beyond all reasonable doubt if he did not brandish the weapon? Cleary some of you know nothing about guns or guns laws but you sure do like to spew your opinions.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
The argument is not if Bird should or should not be in jail. The argument is over the mandatory sentencing. Should the Judges hands be tied? I do not believe in mandatory sentencing but that is the law. I also believe in people rights to own a gun BUT with that right comes a profound responsibility. Bird it appears breached his responsibility. Superior Court and Supreme Court agreed. <O:p></O:p>

http://www.gunguyonline.com/images/glock23.jpg If you look you will not find a "safety" but you will see a double trigger. One must depress the first trigger to fire................but theyre is nothing to check, turn on or off. So, since we are down this road what was Bird carrying for a gun?

[MarkinNH]

Let me re quote you Exact comment.

Does anyone own a Glock? Great gun....no safety.

You clearly stated that a Glock has no safety ! I believe I have proved otherwise. :)

I also believe that if you read how the multiple internal safety's of a Glock work you will see that you Do indeed turn them off / on through the squeezing and releasing of the trigger. It may not be in the form of the traditional external button or lever but you certainly turn the safety"s Off and On.

Do you really believe that he was convicted beyond all reasonable doubt ABSOLUTELY !! Where are the witness's or the evidence to back up the Crazy Lady's "say so" ? There doesn't seem to be any proof to back up the Lady's claim. The local police did what they had to at the time, due to the womans claim then that joke of a county attorney bought the Lady's whole cock and bull story and chose to pursue this case when it clearly should have been drooped. This whole mess literally screams of reasonable doubt !

Cleary some of you know nothing about guns With over 40 years of owning, collecting, reloading, target practicing, skeet and trap shooting, hunting etc. I believe I can comfortably hold my own in most conversations.

The argument is not if Bird should or should not be in jail
It most certainly is ! Just because You believe he belongs in jail doesn't not make it written in stone. The judicial system very clearly failed it's duty's in this particular case. Unfortunately it happens.
You are correct about the argument over the mandatory sentencing. In this particular case the mandatory sentence does not fit the supposed crime. This is why so many people are now pushing to change this particular law.

[fatlazyless]

Slightly off-topic with this...but a very colorfull sidenote.....Is there any chance that someone could post a photo of a pink colored Glock just like what State Senator Jeannie Forester has.....a Glock in designer pink....like wow....can you get bullets in matching pink too?

[MarkinNH]

Let me re quote you Exact comment.

Does anyone own a Glock? Great gun....no safety.

You clearly stated that a Glock has no safety ! I believe I have proved otherwise. :)

I also believe that if you read how the multiple internal safety's of a Glock work you will see that you Do indeed turn them off / on through the squeezing and releasing of the trigger. It may not be in the form of the traditional external button or lever but you certainly turn the safety"s Off and On.

Do you really believe that he was convicted beyond all reasonable doubt ABSOLUTELY !! Where are the witness's or the evidence to back up the Crazy Lady's "say so" ? There doesn't seem to be any proof to back up the Lady's claim. The local police did what they had to at the time, due to the womans claim then that joke of a county attorney bought the Lady's whole cock and bull story and chose to pursue this case when it clearly should have been drooped. This whole mess literally screams of reasonable doubt !

Cleary some of you know nothing about guns With over 40 years of owning, collecting, reloading, target practicing, skeet and trap shooting, hunting etc. I believe I can comfortably hold my own in most conversations.

The argument is not if Bird should or should not be in jail
It most certainly is ! It is merely one of the aspects of this whole mess. The judicial system very clearly failed it's duty's in this particular case. Unfortunately it happens. The county attorney bought the Lady's song and dance and turned right around with prejudice and sold it to the jury.
You are correct about the argument over the mandatory sentencing. In this particular case the mandatory sentence does not fit the supposed crime. This is why so many people are now pushing to change this particular law.
I believe that we will just have to agree to disagree on this matter. :)

[RI Swamp Yankee]

.... I'm curious, after reading about Bird's day in court, why the Harris woman's previous indiscretions with the law, and her history of mental instability, were not allowed to be entered. They are indeed so relevant. ...
It's not allowed sa meredith.
I guess that is what I find as strange about the NH legal system. In RI certain things are allowed if they pertain to the witness state of mind, that is, the ability tell the truth, make rational decisions and present true factual testimony. Based on what I have read about her background, any 3rd rate defense attorney in RI would have ripped her apart even if 2/3 of her background was not allowed in court.

[fatlazyless]

Today's December 2 www.concordmonitor.com has an editorial, "Clarify the Criminal Threatening Laws," on Ward Bird's arrest for felony threatening that takes a look at the NH law and some of the legal thinking behind it........and a lot of follow up comments.......pretty interesting stuff......which will probably lead to more disagreements over his guilty verdict.

[tis]

The Court is a strange place. They don't allow a lot of things in testimony, even things that are totally relevant in most people's opinion. They are not allowed for various reasons, many of which I would certainly question.

[Yosemite Sam]

The Court is a strange place. They don't allow a lot of things in testimony, even things that are totally relevant in most people's opinion. They are not allowed for various reasons, many of which I would certainly question.


Let’s say that the jury heard testimony about all the bad things that Harris did in her life time. Would that have made a difference as far as the verdict is concerned?

Maybe and maybe not.

“Maybe” because no one wants the bad guy to win and the good guy to lose.

“ Maybe not” because it appears that Bird admitted to the police that he did have a gun and did something with it during the confrontation with Harris.

IMHO I think if we could read the police report it would help us understand how Bird was convicted of felony criminal threatening.

I think that if it was just a matter of he said she said, Mr. Bird would not be in jail right now.

[Yosemite Sam]

Below is the link to the video of THE SUPREME COURT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE hearing about the verdict of THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE V. Ward Bird.

Notice how the Supreme Court Justices ask questions about the law/laws that sent Bird to jail. If they couldn’t understand them how did the jury figure them out?????

http://www.courts.nh.gov/pastsessions/June10/20090372va.asx

[JDeere]

I will stand by my stating that you know nothing about guns or you would not be arguing such a silly point. Glock does not have a safety that I can turn on or off. You are simply arguing semantics. I could not remove a Glock from my holster and check the safety. Period!
No responsible person pulls a gun out of their holster to check the safety. Do you have any idea what type of gun Bird was carrying? Who knows if it even had a safety.
You do not seem to know much of the “story” or history of the family, land for sale etc.
Does Bird belong in jail? Based on the law yes, he does. Do I have sympathy for the guy? Yes, because maybe it is a stupid mistake some of us could have made. Then again you do not simply pull out a gun because someone has trespassed. He was wrong, not MPD, and not the courts and he paid a very high price for it.

[fatlazyless]

Below is the link to the video of THE SUPREME COURT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE hearing about the verdict of THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE V. Ward Bird.

Notice how the Supreme Court Justices ask questions about the law/laws that sent Bird to jail. If they couldn’t understand them how did the jury figure them out?????

http://www.courts.nh.gov/pastsessions/June10/20090372va.asx

Terrific public service of you to find this video/audio and post a working link here.....now if only my 'puter had working audio. Wonder if either the Laconia or Meredith libraries have working audio on their public 'puters?

And, wonder what is the length of this State of NH vs Ward Bird video/audio?

[Yosemite Sam]

Great public service of you to find this video/audio and post a working link here.....now if only my 'puter had working audio. Wonder if either the Laconia or Meredith libraries have working audio on their public 'puters?

And, wonder what is the length of this State of NH vs Ward Bird video/audio?

It is 31 minutes long.

Do you have Headphone jacks on your computer?
Go to your favorite walmart store and buy some speakers that hook to your headphone jacks. :)

Have fun!!

[RailroadJoe]

I just watched the video of the Supreme Court hearing and realize the stupidity of our law. Over and over it was satated "A non deadly force" yet they ruled it okay. Too bad we can not have people who look at justice being logical and sensible.
I still can not understand why the woman got away with out a trial

[Dave R]

If you walked out on to your porch to find somebody on your privately posted land, peeking in windows, and then that person wouldn't leave when told to, how would you react ? Just asking.


I'd be rather upset, but IMO, one should only take out a pistol when one intends to use it. I don't think trespassing and boorish behavior warrant deadly force, so I would not brandish a pistol unless I though there was some danger.

That said, the penalty in this case is WAY too severe for the crime, I hope he gets out soon.

[fatlazyless]

Worst case scenario......July 30 2001, Meredith NH......Robert Whitney, age 58, former city councilor of Concord NH.....was found strangled......by Gary Sampson (age aprox 30 ?)......a handgun would probably have been helpfull for him but who really knows....it's conjecture....what might have happened.....but there's no reason why a can of spray mace or just a billy club....or even a broom handle....... could have been just as helpfull to scare off Gary Sampson.....and then you call the police.

Even if you are totally in the right with the law on using a handgun to defend yourself, you probably still run up some serious attorney bills.

Handguns have too many legal issues that the lesser mace or billy club just does not get into......plus if you show a handgun....could be that the next "Gary Sampson" has a handgun too. That was supposedly a totally random murder by a total stranger for no particular reason such as robbery.

[Merrymeeting]

I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about.

If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me.

If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything?

Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there.

Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner.

Yes?

[fatlazyless]

....hey, if anyone tries to break into my place in the middle of the night or something....or set's foot onto my 1/4 acre....all's I have to do is show them my Meredith property tax bill, and that will scare the daylights out of them!


Excuuuuuuuse me Mr Burglar....would you mind kindly taking a look-see at this town tax bill.......:eek::eek::eek:.....egaaaaaddd.....that would have sacred off even a Gary Sampson ....... :coolsm::laugh::coolsm:!

[Lakesrider]

My thought about all of the gun stuff..

If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead.

The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive.

That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

[Dave R]

My thought about all of the gun stuff..

If you are going to pull a gun on someone that is on your property or trying to get into your house or trying, or looking like they are trying to hurt you. Shoot them. If you don't kill them, shoot them again until they are dead. It is their word against yours. If they are dead they have no word. And if they were trying to assault you, they should have no word to begin with and belong dead. Very, very dead.

The only reason I would ever raise and point a gun at anyone is to shoot them and kill them. I am going to do my level best to make sure that person does not make it out of my house alive.

That is my theory on home defense. Kill them before they kill you.

A chief of police once told me the same thing.

[fatlazyless]

www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office.

[MarkinNH]

www.freewardbird.org.... Today, Sunday afternoon out in the sunlight, up at the Meredith roundabout on State Route 3, approximately ten people were demonstrating with various home made signs in support of Ward Bird. All over the area in Meredith and Center Harbor; there's a number of "Free Ward Bird" or "www.freewardbird.org" homemade style signs showing at homes, businesses and one church in Center Harbor next to the post office.

Isn't it GREAT !!
There were groups of friends, neighbors, family and even people whom have never met Ward scattered at various intersections, from the Meredith rotary all the way to the junction of Rt. 16 & 25 both Saturday and Sunday. All willing to take time out of their weekend and stand out in the cold because they believe in Ward and they feel there was an injustice done.
This is what I call Community Spirit !

FREE WARD BIRD

[RI Swamp Yankee]

With all the commentary in the media, has there been any comments by jurors from the trial? I wonder what they were thinking when they deliberated and if their opinion changed later when they heard more about that "victim".

[Knockers]

Harris wandered onto Ward's property looking at neighboring land that was listed for sale on March 27, 2006. But 6 months later after her altercation with private property owners, her residence of 15 years is condemned a few doors down from Jeffery and Kay Bird in Salem,NH She's charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator removing her cars, failing to comply with a search warrant, being held on $10,000 cash bail and complaints with police back to 1998. After reading the newspaper article below i'm finding it awfully hard to believe there's no evidence that Bird's attorney couldn't use. There's got to be more going on between the Ag's office, county/local PD and municipal officers not to adjust an ill placed law before the charge was issued.


Police seize dogs from Salem home; owner charged with assault

The Eagle Tribune Fri Sep 14, 2007, 10:37 PM EDT

SALEM, N.H. — Police removed about 40 dogs yesterday from a Salem trailer where they had been living in squalor.
The owner of the dogs, Christine Harris, 54, of 75 S. Policy St., Lot 61, was charged with simple assault for allegedly shoving a tow truck operator and with failing to comply with a search warrant. She is being held on $10,000 cash bail.
The odor of dog feces filled the air outside Harris' blue, vinyl-shingled trailer yesterday. A chorus of yelps could be heard from behind the home.
"I've been here four years, and you can hear it day, night, weekends," said Tina Fairfield, a next-door neighbor. "We've learned to sleep through it. You learn to live with the stench."
The home, cloaked by a row of overgrown bushes, was condemned yesterday by Salem Health Officer Brian Lockhart due to the poor conditions and the number of dogs living there. Around noon, police posted a sign on the front door saying that Harris can't move back in until the home is cleaned.
"It's deplorable. It stinks," said Kelly Demers, Salem's animal control officer, as he carried out the dogs yesterday, one by one.
Demers said he went to Harris' home yesterday around 9 a.m. with a search warrant that allowed him to inspect the home and count how many dogs she had on her property.
"She wouldn't come to the door," he said. "It just so happened that a tow truck driver came to take away a couple of her cars, so then she came out."
Angered by their orders to remove two unregistered cars on the property, Harris then allegedly approached one of the two truck operators and shoved him. Police arrived and charged her with simple assault and refusing to comply with Demers' warrant. She has not been charged with animal cruelty.
Police had already charged Harris on Aug. 18 with her dogs being a public nuisance and with having several dogs without licensing them. Demers had rounded up four of them that day that were running loose outside her trailer, according to Deputy police Chief William Ganley.
"She quite possibly could be running a breeding kennel," Ganley said.
The dogs collected yesterday included pugs, Boston terriers, miniature pinschers, three Rottweilers, an English bulldog and mixed breeds. At least twice, Demers removed clear, plastic tubs full of puppies. One had a small dog with three smaller pups nursing.
This isn't the first time Harris has caught the attention of police and neighbors.
Complaints made to police date back to 1998. In 2002, she was charged with keeping more than five dogs in an area not zoned for a kennel and building an addition to her home without obtaining proper town permits. A judge had ordered the addition — which held nearly 40 dogs — to be torn down, but the case was ultimately dropped because she began complying with town regulations, Ganley said.
"Everybody knows you have yapping dogs over there going all night long," said Larry Taylor, a neighbor. "It's brought down the resale value of our property."
"I wanted to go to Florida," he said. "My wife said, 'We can't go. We'll get nothing for our property.'"
Neighbors said the enforcement brought by town officials comes at a time when the trailer park's owner, Martin Taylor, has made efforts to improve the park. Those improvements include removing unregistered cars.
Currently, Taylor is fighting to evict Harris from the property in a case that is now being decided by the state Supreme Court.
Jeffrey and Kay Bird, who have been living a few doors down from Harris for nearly 14 years, said yesterday that they have never had a problem with Harris, but feel sympathy for the animals locked away in her home.
"A lot of people have had problems with her, but we've never had a bad word with her," Jeffrey Bird said, sitting on his shaded front porch.
Kay Bird said, "I feel sorry for her, but she hasn't abided by the rules."
Ganley said both neighbors and police have praised Demers for dealing with Harris' case.
"He's been working on this for a very long time," Ganley said. "He really loves and cares for those animals."
Police said yesterday that if Harris posts bail, she could be allowed back into the home to clean up the property, but she can't live there.
The dogs and puppies will likely be held at local animal shelters. It's uncertain if Harris will be able to get them back at some point

[Lakesrider]

I edited my comment due to my rational not being so good until I have had my coffee......:D

I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm.
I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.
Hopefully I will have the presence of mind to grab my video recorder and use that at the same time I am dialing 911.

Yes it will cost money....If I shoot.....
Hopefully I will never have to worry about any of this.

One thing I will not do is wave my gun around at any time......

[VitaBene]

I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.


There is nothing like the sound a Remington 870 (or any other pump action shotgun) having a round chambered!

[Yosemite Sam]

There is nothing like the sound a Remington 870 (or any other pump action shotgun) having a round chambered!

And there is nothing like the visual effects of this little fella standing beside you when someone comes onto your property with bad intentions:



http://www.mistylakespetresort.com/images/rottweiler_m.jpg

[brk-lnt]

And there is nothing like the visual effects of this little fella standing beside you when someone comes onto your property with bad intentions:



http://www.mistylakespetresort.com/images/rottweiler_m.jpg

I've always kept my dogs locked up whenever I've actually had to investigate or confront any random visitors on our property. They're not trained to act as attack or defense dogs, and so the most they would likely do is get in the way, cause a liability, or block my shot. Or worse yet, get harmed or killed by someone who felt threatened by them in some way.

There has been a lot of hype and speculation and tough talk in this thread (not aiming this comment specifically at you). I think that more people need to research ACTUAL useful means of self-defense, including use of weapons, and think about realistic scenarios when you would be justified in using some kind of force.

Dogs, broomsticks, pepper spray, and such are not going to offer a reliable defense. Your first weapon is your mind, your next is your sidearm. Both should be in good working order. If not, stay in the house and keep 911 on speed-dial and hope it's a slow night.

[fatlazyless]

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

[VitaBene]

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

FLL, I sat across from a table from Gary Lee Sampson during jury selection for his sentencing trial. I was not allowed to sit on the jury based on some of the answers I gave to questions from his attorney. I did get to address him and I can tell you he lacked soul (I can't describe his eyes any better than this). He would have laughed at your mace or broomstick.

Are home invasions common in NH? No. Can it happen? Certainly and I would prefer to be prepared to defend my family.

[Pineedles]

I live in the town next to where Dr. William Petit lost his wife and two daughters to savages. I see his brother a couple of days a week. My wife was Dr. Petit's paitent. He stated at the sentencing hearing that he almost committed suicide during this long ordeal. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! NO TOWN IS SAFE! NO HOME IS SAFE! Dr. Petit had a baseball bat to defend himself. The cowards beat him with it. DO NOT LET ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT A GUN IS UNSAFE TO USE TO PROTECT YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! Take a NRA course to learn how to use the only thing that will protect you and your family when the savages knock down your door.

[MarkinNH]

Come on people, let's not forget that New Hampshire and the lakes region are one of the most crime free areas in the U.S. Why, more than once, I have broke down in my car, or got stuck in a snow bank, and not having a cell phone, have simply walked up to the nearest home with lights on, and knocked on the door and got the use of their phone, or had them make a phone call. This area is very very safe and people are trusting enough to open their door to a stranger at night!

Sometimes on the evening news, you see photos of people's homes in other parts of the country, and you get to see homes with security bar-storm door style doors, and window grates; real serious looking security grates that would really keep someone out. No security hardware like that gets used in NH that I ever see.

Here in Meredith, afaik, you have to go back to July 2001, and the very unfortunate Robert Whitney strangulation murder to find any home invasion murders by an unknown intruder. The convicted murderer, Gary Sampson, also killed someone in Vermont or Massachusetts as well, while enroute hitch-hiking to NH, so it was not like his murders were part of a thought out plan.

Maybe you want to avoid picking up hitch-hikers, but even that is not really all that dangerous because NH is a very safe state! Frequently, hitch-hikers are people who lost their license due to a DUI conviction, or something like that, and do not become triple murderers like Gary Sampson, so I don't want to be bad-mouthing hitch-hikers. After all, how does one drive two vehicles at the same time?

You keep living in you liberal minded, big brother will take care of me and protect me world. I will live in mine where I will take care of myself if absolutely necessary. Your welcome to knock on my door late at night to borrow a phone because your car broke down. But don't think for a second that I won't be armed when I answer the door. You may not see it and I hopefully won't have a reason to divulge that I have it, but IT WILL BE THERE !


You mean the baseball bat didn't scare the mean people away?

Nah - instead they beat him close to death, kidnapped, raped, and sodomized his wife and young daughters - then killed them by setting them on fire.

Of course Cheshire is kinda like a Meredith (but possibly wealthier?) bad things usually dont happen there.

Maybe he should have tried waving a broomstick at them.

Maybe he should have had enough sense to borrow fatlazyless's broomstick that he seems so fond off. After all Meredith is so safe he shouldn't need a self defense weapon of any kind.
Of course he does still have his tax bill. ( I rather liked that one by the way, it did make me chuckle :laugh: ) Death by tax's, as they say.

[fatlazyless]

How safe is it around here? Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own choice for personal protection, be it a .45 semi pistol or a kitchen broom. Me, I think I'll stick with the kitchen broom, or maybe a tennis racquet, and just use it to wave off any would be bad guys, because using a handgun in most cases just escalates a situation. Do not mean to be nasty here or be a jerk, but come on, if Ward had thought to use a broom, would he now be a long term guest down at the gray-bar hotel?

Going back to 1992, I've had a total of one time at my cottage on Meredith Neck when I felt a little threatened by an outsider. It was summer, July or August, maybe five years ago, and I was dressed like a house painter because I was outside painting the cottage. A large young white male, maybe 22-years, 225-lb, 6' with an extremely aggressive attitude and spoken language walks around the house, sees me, and he says that he is selling magazine subscriptions, and had some real good magazine deals. So, I had been cleaning a paint brush or something, and I immediately say " you know you need to have a police permit from the Meredith Police to sell magazines, door to door." He says "yes, I have a permit and shows me one from Gilford, but not Meredith." All things considered at that time, I quickly decided not to bring that up, and just told him that I was just the painter, didn't want any magazines, and that the home owner was not home.......and he left. But boy, I tell you, from his demeanor, I would not have wanted to let him inside the house.....no way.

It is simply much better to scare them off and call the police than to confront with a gun. You are not the police, and the legal system gives the police the benefit of any doubts on their enforcement practice. Call me a chicken if you want, but I would just rather avoid a confrontation, and just go play some tennis, than to spend a lot of time w/ the legal system. Better to shoot an ace on the tennis court than to shoot a .45 in personal defense. As soon as you shoot just one bullet in self-defense, either as a warning shot, or trying to hit someone, it probably opens up a big can of trouble. Go hide under the crawlspace or something, and let the police be the neighborhood protectors.

[Yosemite Sam]

What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions?

This is what we should be talking about and not what happened when some psychotic individuals broke into someone’s house and……..

You are justified in using lethal force against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person.

If you have never been attacked, it is natural to wonder how you would react, and whether you would be able to judge the situation properly. But when reality happens to you, you are very likely to find that you have no trouble at all knowing that you are in immediate and unavoidable danger. What you do then will depend on how you have trained yourself (mentally as well as physically) to react.

[brk-lnt]

What kind of danger did Ward see when this overweight 50 year old women came on his property in clear daylight and asked him some questions?


We'll never know for sure unless Ward himself decides to log on here and offer his viewpoint.

My personal interpretation is that he *didn't* see any danger when she came on his property initially. The perceived danger seems to have arisen from when she didn't leave when first asked and instead chose to confront and challenge him on his own property.

We also don't have conclusive evidence of how exactly the firearm was made visible.

The REAL real debate is, IMO, to what degree should a homeowner be allowed to confront and via various means potentially intimidate a clear trespasser who shows no intentions of leaving a property they are not permitted on.

[Yosemite Sam]

The REAL real debate is, IMO, to what degree should a homeowner be allowed to confront and via various means potentially intimidate a clear trespasser who shows no intentions of leaving a property they are not permitted on.

In Ward Bird's case I think it would have been better for him to pick up a phone and call the police before even talking to her if she was trespassing.

That would be my first line of defense against an overweight 50 year old women.

I think I would be a little embarrassed that I had to call the police because she was a threat to me though. :D

[Gearhead]

I wonder how many Americans would open their front door to someone (anyone) in a uniform. It may not be the Maytag man.

Once that door begins to open, you could be in big trouble, because gun or no gun, he can knock you off your feet with the door and be on you before you realize what happened. First be sure your door's got a stout chain or a peephole so you can ID your caller. Second, when in doubt, don't invite him in. If he wants in, he'll get in. In the meantime get on the phone and prepare for fight (or surrender) or flight, whichever you're more comfortable with.

[Yosemite Sam]

Calling 911 is ALWAYS the proper thing to do...if you are able to.

Not only does it get the police/ambulance on their way (20+mins to my house) but it says a lot later on, if need be.

You dont even have to talk if are afraid to give up your location (hiding in your bedroom, armed etc) just dial it and leave it off the hook. They will respond.

Angry people dont usually think to call 911 first, scared people do. Prosecutors know this.

Its all in everyones rehearsed plan, right?....:-)


I don't even think a 911 call was necessary in Bird's case. This wasn't a scared emergency situation to get this lady off his land......this was a clear angry situation.

[beaner]

Unfortunately, any weapon - including a gun - can be turned against you. Our laptop has fingerprint recognition log-on technology. As soon as similar technology is available & reliable on a firearm so that only I can fire it, I will buy one.

As for Mr. Bird, he had one of the most experienced criminal defense attorneys in the state. By not accepting the plea offer, he gambled, and lost. He should be grateful that he is being allowed to serve his sentence in the Carroll County HOC instead of the NH State Prison.

Anyone who doesn't like the outcome of this case shouldn't fault the court system. The legislature passed the law that requires a minimum mandatory sentence of 3 - 6 years for committing a felony with a gun, when the gun is an element of the crime charged. In doing so, they eliminated any possibility of judicial discretion.

Meanwhile, the only way he can get his sentence vacated is through a pardon, but there would have to be extraordinary circumstances for that to happen.

[VtSteve]

Some excellent points all.

I think the overall story gets clouded by personal feelings. The intruder has a history of being rather whacked. Bird seems to be well-liked, and has his own stuff going on. Nothing I've read really seems to explain his behavior. Medication? Something she said we don't know about? I think he demonstrated poor judgment, over-reacted, and in a dangerous way. But the punishment is overboard IMO, given both the intruder herself, and most of the testimony and descriptions given.

As for the guns? Everyone would like to think that in a home invasion scenario, they'd go get their gun, find the hidden ammunition in a locked cabinet or safe, load the gun, then either scare off the intruder(s) or kill them. If someone had made it into your bedroom, you'd have about a half-second to do that. Sometimes you get lucky, wake up after hearing things, and have enough time to deal with everything else. (probably why I never fix squeaky stairs) :emb:

I'm sure every family man has thought about this type of incident while kissing the kids goodnight, staying awake just a few minutes pondering it, maybe even after waking up because of some little noise. I'll bet the majority of people have thought about what they'd do. And I'd bet even further that the vast majority of people would forget their plans after fear sets in.

But reading about horrific invasions, whether it be the Cheshire CT incident, or the savage and random attacks on the Dartmouth Professor and his wife that were savagely killed, or the recent trial of the guy who used a machete in a home invasion. Here's a recent one as well, involving handguns
http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=11577171

There are plenty of home invasions involving violence right in the northern NE area. For all of these cases, I support the death penalty, whether it's administered by the owner of the house, or the Court system. But then we get into the problematic storage of weapons, separate area for ammo, etc... It's probably for those reasons I've never owned a gun.

[fatlazyless]

"He says there are 400 cords of wood around the jail and he'd love to be out there splitting the wood instead of sitting in his cell." quote from today's Union Leader Dec 8

If that doesn't make you feel sad thinking about his situation, then you should read it again and think on that quote. I know next to nothing about the everyday life of a prisoner being held at the Carroll County Jail over in Ossipee NH, but would take a good guess that it must be extremely boring, and boredom can be very very mentally challenging. (Hey, just look at me!) Does the jail have a tennis court? Probably not!

Someone once said that the only thing that prisoners can expect to learn in most US prisons is "how to be a good prisoner." That means how to stay quiet, slow down, and not get in trouble with the prison rules and just do your time......period!

Maybe the Carroll County Jail has its' own website? Will go take a look-see on that.

www.sheriff.carrollcountynh.net

http://www.nhpr.org/node/9038

[sa meredith]

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

[fatlazyless]

For home use security it would seem that a small .38 revolver would be perfectly adequate. Remember the 1960's tv show DRAGNET, starring Jack Webb as Sergeant Joe Friday, Badge 714, on the L.A.P.D., working the night shift. Sergeant Joe Friday, and his partner's character played by Harry Morgan. I cannot recall Harry Morgan's character's name?

Anyway, both these police officers had these small little.38 revolvers with short barrels, and it worked good for them in the great big city of Los Angeles, so a handgun like that should be perfectly good for the lakes region. Plus, they are probably much less expensive, and much safer by design than a semi. because it is LESS complicated. When loaded with bullets, a person who is looking at the gun barrel pointed at him actually gets to see the dull lead bullets inside the revolver sectional chambers, unlike a semi, plus some very potent rounds are made for a .38.

Drop a semi, cocked & locked, onto the floor, and will it shoot off....maybe? Do the same with a revolver, and the only way a modern double-action revolver will shoot off is by depressing on the trigger. The gun store in Meredith next to Town Hall probably has them used for a hundred dollars or so?

Our newly elected state senator, Jeannie Forester was using her bright pink Glock as an election campaign vote collecting tool in October 2010, so that says something about people's attitudes on handguns, locally.

[Pineedles]

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

It might also be interesting to see how many home invasions were stopped because the homeowner had a gun. If you don't want a gun in your house, then don't buy one. If I want a gun in my house, don't hinder my right to own one.

[fatlazyless]

Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy.

He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........:D ....That was no picnic.

[RailroadJoe]

FLL the Devil's advocate.

[Pineedles]

More like the Devil's jester.

But back on topic, and speaking of the NRA...

I certainly hope the NRA is assisting Ward Bird. Sounds like a good case for their efforts. If you are a NRA member, drop a note to them and ask what they are doing to help.

[MarkinNH]

A compact .38 is NOT what you want for home protection. That gun is for concealed carry (hence detectives used it) Its not very accurate and its not very easy to shoot well.

A newbie would be wise considering a 12ga shotgun for home protection - or if safe storage was an issue and really wanted a handgun, there are far better choices than a small .38 special.

BTW - Your theories about semi-vs-revolver are so wacky its not worth even attempting to get them straight on a web forum....;)
If you ever decide to take the plunge and protect yourself, please take some state recognized and endorsed courses first!


I was thinking the same thing but quickly decided it was not worth bringing up.

[brk-lnt]

Always been curious about one thing..maybe someone here has the stat.
How many accidental shootings...or any type of gun "accidents" for that matter, have taken place in homes, that have no guns?????
Anyone????

Can't tell fi you're trolling or serious.

It might be next to the statistic mentioning fires started in homes that have no sources of ignition or stats on fall-down-a-flight-of-stairs cases in homes with no stairs.

[Belmont Resident]

You might want to freshen up on gun laws.
Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home.
Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer.
Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder.
You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for.
This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break.
While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

[Yosemite Sam]

Ward Bird sure does have a lot of support from local businesses.
These photos are in today's edition of THE MEREDITH NEWS :

[MarkinNH]

You might want to freshen up on gun laws.
Inside the home gun protection differs from outside the home.
Inside then home you have every right to shoot and kill an INTRUDER weather they are armed or not, if they are coming at you. Then refuse to talk to the police until you have first talked to your lawyer.
Outside the home they best have a gun or you probably will be guilty of murder.
You cannot just shoot someone weather they are on your property or not. That is what the law is for.
This whole thing is a freaking joke. What are we going to do next pass special laws that only apply to nice people? Give me a break.
While I agree the sentence is quite stiff I still feel he deserves to be punished and have a record that prohibits him from carrying a gun or at the very least requires him to take a mandatory gun, no make that every available gun safety class so that he knows gun laws.

How many "gun safety class's" have you taken ?

[Pineedles]

Can't tell fi you're trolling or serious.

It might be next to the statistic mentioning fires started in homes that have no sources of ignition or stats on fall-down-a-flight-of-stairs cases in homes with no stairs.

sa is a friend of mine who definitely is not trolling. I think he was trying to be funny. Although sa and I don't agree on hunting and probably gun ownership as a personal choice. I am sure he wouldn't hinder my right to own. I didn't see the humor, until you mentioned the houses with no stairs.

[rander7823]

Tried to read through this entire thread. But doesn't he have an opportunity to appeal the decision?

[wuwu]

here is a interesting link
http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/5.-Motion-to-Dismiss-212_06-S-154_20080616_StvWardBird_Motion.pdf
notice how the crazy lady cannot recognize the defendant. This sounds like a witch hunt!

[Newbiesaukee]

I did read through the link. Except for the fact that there was a previous mistrial, nothing really new. It is true that the defense counsel made an issue of the woman not being able to identify the defendant, this really did seem to be a legal ploy and did not really carry any weight. A lot of this stuff seems to be procedural that only attorneys can really follow.

I may not be correct on this but it seems that this document is from before the trial that convicted him.

I really don't have a horse in this race, but I don't think much will be settled in the Forum. But that doesn't mean I don't read every word.

[fatlazyless]

Good Man - Bad Law, Free Ward Bird; along with one or two other home made signs, created in a style similar to the Burma-Shave roadside signs of the 1930's where you see a number of small signs which create a message as they get pieced together and read in one sentence as one drives down the road have been placed along the Moulton Farm field alongside Route 25 in Meredith.

Over on Route 104 in Meredith not far from Lake Wicwas, there's about two large painted plywood signs held up by 2x4's promoting freewardbird.org
.................


If I were his defense attorney I would have brought forward the premise that he had recently had a medical operation and was in a recovery mode. It is not unusual for people to be stressed when undergoing a recuperation and to react with more anger than ordinary and to overreact due to recuperation grumpiness. Asking a judge to take that into consideration seems like a reasonable request?

[Yosemite Sam]

Good Man - Bad Law, Free Ward Bird; along with one or two other home made signs, created in a style similar to the Burma-Shave roadside signs of the 1930's where you see a number of small signs which create a message as they get pieced together and read in one sentence as one drives down the road have been placed along the Moulton Farm field alongside Route 25 in Meredith.

Over on Route 104 in Meredith not far from Lake Wicwas, there's about two large painted plywood signs held up by 2x4's promoting freewardbird.org
.................


If I were his defense attorney I would have brought forward the premise that he had recently had a medical operation and was in a recovery mode. It is not unusual for people to be stressed when undergoing a recuperation and to react with more anger than ordinary and to overreact due to recuperation grumpiness. Asking a judge to take that into consideration seems like a reasonable request?

FLL,
In one of the below trial documents that www.freewardbird.org posted on there website they talk about Bird’s operation. Spend some time reading these documents about the trial and maybe it might help you.


http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1.-Supplemental-Trial-Transcript-March-212_06-S-154_20080317_StvWardBird_Supplemental.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2.-Supplemental-Trial-Transcript-Errata-March-212_06-S-154_20080317_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/3.-Jury-Selection-212_06-S-154_20080616_StvWardBird_JS.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/4.-Jury-Selection-Errata-212_06-S-154_20080616_StvWardBird_JS-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/5.-Motion-to-Dismiss-212_06-S-154_20080616_StvWardBird_Motion.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/6.-Motion-to-Dismiss-Errata-212_06-S-154_20080616_StvWardBird_Motion-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/7.-Master-Index-Trial-212_06-S-154_20080625_StvWardBird_Index.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/8.-Trial-Transcript-Vol-1-212_06-S-154_20080625_StvWardBird.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/9.-Trial-Transcript-Errata-Vol-1-212_06-S-154_20080625_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/10.-Trial-Transcript-Vol-2-212_06-S-154_20080626_StvWardBird.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/11.-Trial-Transcript-Errata-Vol-2-212_06-S-154_20080626_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/12.-Trial-Transcript-Vol-3-212_06-S-154_20080627_StvWardBird.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/13.-Trial-Transcript-Errata-Vol-3-212_06-S-154_20080627_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/14.-Motion-Hearing-212_06-S-154_20081007_StvWardBird.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/15.-Motion-Hearing-Errata-212_06-S-154_20081007_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/16.-Sentencing-Transcript-212_06-S-154_20090424_StvWardBird.pdf

http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/17.-Sentencing-Transcript-Errata-212_06-S-154_20090424_StvWardBird-ERRATA.pdf

[wifi]

FLL,
In one of the below trial documents that www.freewardbird.org posted on there website they talk about Bird’s operation. Spend some time reading these documents about the trial and maybe it might help you.


He will just go off on some other tangent.

[secondcurve]

Ok....who here has been held up by a robber at gunpoint? Anyone? I have.....on April 19, 1979....Boston Marathon Day....6-pm.....in a small Boston retail store.....by a screaming Italian-looking guy wearing a paisley shirt with a dark purple V.F.W. windbreaker.....heavy beard....not shaved for maybe 3 days.....darkish complexion.....probably an experienced hold-up guy.

He got about $850 cash money and tossed me back 50 as he left, just to be a nice guy or something, plus I got marched down into the basement wondering if I'd ever be walking back up the stairs. He had a small .38 revolver, something like a Smith & Wesson chief's special, 5-shot revolver w/ a 2" blue barrel which is the same as what Sergeant Joe Friday used on Dragnet, so I know from experience, how convincing it can be. .....He was extremely nervous and seemed to be very panicky about getting caught or something by someone unknown to him as he kept looking around and around while it all happened over about two to three minutes........:D ....That was no picnic.



FLL what were you doing with $850 of cash in 1979? Were you a drug dealer? That could explain some things!

[fatlazyless]

No, I used to own a small Boston retail hardware store w/ Kyanize Paint,paint sundries, plumbing, electrical, hardware, fasteners, tools, housewares, and a big locksmith & key dept. After that event, I changed the old cash-in-the-register m.o. Except for a daily cup of coffee or two, I am 100% prescription drug free, and thank-you for asking!

[tis]

I loved Kyanize paint! Too bad they went out of business.

[JDeere]

I agree. I will not be using my gun unless I feel I am under great threat of harm.
I will definitely let the intruder know I have one and that I intend to use it.
.

Great harm or threat? You only get to shoot in NH if you are in fear for your life. If you are 6 foot tall and a 5 foot women who has come into your home illegally comes at you with pocket knife and you shoot her you will be arrested and charged. You cannot reasonble argue that that small women even with her 6 inch knife was not something you could have reasonble protected yourself from WITHOUT lethal force.

[fatlazyless]

I loved Kyanize paint! Too bad they went out of business.

Kyanize started out in 1899 as the Boston Paint Co, and then sometime in the late 1940's or something, they changed the name to Kyanize for a reason unknown. It was made in Everett on Second St and was in biz from 1899 to about 1990 when it got sold for a big price. And the new owners, Gulf States Paint, killed the brand and just dropped the name all together after a couple years in the early 1990's. KYANIZE PAINT.........r.i.p!

Now, back to getting Ward Bird out of the slammer over in Ossipee?