Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough

[sa meredith]

Quite the thread.
Response to earlier post...was not trolling. And think anyone who wants to own a gun, absolutely should be able to (although I am not a fan of a gun in a home). Just as I believe, someone should be able to light up a ciggerette, whereever they dam well please, as long as they are outside. (and I have never been a smoker).
My point was simply that with no guns in a home, you will have no accident. Furthermore, with regard to the question about how many homebreaks were stopped...I would guess that the number of accidental home shootings, FAR OUTWEIGHS, the number of home invasions that are prevented. Just a guess.
I don't think guns mix with homes that have children/ curious teenagers/ etc.. My opinion. You don't need to explain to me about proper education, and safety measures...I get it, and know I am in the minority. So save the speach. It's just my opinion.
With regard to support for Bird....HOLY COW!!!
For anyone who is reading from afar... you would not believe what the town looks like.I went up to visit some friends who live year round on Long Island, last week. And, from the time you take a right at Murphy's Irving, it's a non-stop line of signs in people's yards. They are everywhere. Also saw on the back window of several pick up trucks "FREE BIRD" in block letters. The support is overwhelming. I still cannot believe a judge cannot look into this woman's history, realize she has issues, and no ability to enter into a real estate transaction...and conclude she went there with an agenda. She went to cause trouble. Just my thoughts...
Is it ice out yet?????

[MarkinNH]

I found this interesting and educational to read and will confess that I didn't read it all (yet)
I suspect that some others will find it interesting and educational as well.
627.4 and 627.7 are particularly pertinent to the discussion. You might find it easier to go to the actual web page and read it there.
This makes for an incredibly long post. I will leave it up for now but if anybody objects to it's size I will be happy to edit the post and just leave the link. :)
TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 627
JUSTIFICATION

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/627/627-mrg.htm

[sa meredith]

...now that's a post. A bit excessive....no????

[MarkinNH]

...now that's a post. A bit excessive....no????

I will take that as an objection and have edited the original post as I mentioned I would. :)

[Pineedles]

Title all messages PARDON BIRD

I go to Foxwoods occasionally to gamble. I do not gamble with my life or my family's life, so statistics are of no matter to me as to what the precentage of home accidents versus stopping an intruder are. I can find out as well as anyone what the percentage is, but it is of no concern. I know if I armed, and I am trained, I can prevent an intruder from harming my family more times than they can injure us.

One can argue whether Ward felt threatened or not. It is a mute point, because only he can tell you. I am of the opinion that as the homeowner he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Pardon him and let him go back to his family!

[Slickcraft]

From today's WMUR web site. Looks like the list of signers would make a good list of Reps to vote for.


Speaker Of House To Meet With Lynch To Hand Over Petition

CONCORD, N.H. -- The speaker of the House is expected to give the governor a petition Friday seeking a pardon for a man convicted for making threats.

Speaker William O'Brien planned to meet with Gov. John Lynch at about 2 p.m. O'Brien said the petition calling for a pardon for Ward Bird was signed by more than 100 members of the House.

Bird was sentenced to three to six years in prison after he was convicted of threatening a woman on his property by waving a gun at her. Bird's supporters have called the conviction and sentence unjust, saying Bird had the right to protect his property from a trespasser.

Bird's wife, Virginia, said she remained doubtful that her husband would be home by Christmas.

[gokart-mozart]

I don't have a horse in this race, I've joined late, and I've never owned a gun. But there is one scenario in all this that I've wondered about.

If we forget for the moment the call from the niece, the steps described by Mr. Bird do not seem that unreasonable to me.

If I did own a gun, and I was worried about some crazy looking in my home windows, wouldn't it make sense that if I was going out to check, I would take the safety off the gun in order to be prepared for anything?

Similarly, it seems that it would make equal sense, that I would check and set the safety before re-entering the house to make sure nothing could happen in there.

Again, I'm not a gun owner so I don't know what is taught in gun safety classes. But checking the safety before entering a house seems like it would have been a reasonable and conditioned step for a gun owner.

Yes?

He made a mistake, one that no handgunner should make. I imagine he was pissed off and wanted to make an impression. This is now legal in NH (as of 1/1/11) but it wasn't legal when he did it.

He should pay a $100 fine. 3 years in the slammer is a travesty. I, too, hope he's home soon.

[Colby]

He made a mistake, one that no handgunner should make. I imagine he was pissed off and wanted to make an impression. This is now legal in NH (as of 1/1/11) but it wasn't legal when he did it.

He should pay a $100 fine. 3 years in the slammer is a travesty. I, too, hope he's home soon.


I am incensed by this example of so called justice. There are so many really bad people who are guilty of something and get no jail time at all. People who have hurt others or done dastardly deeds walk free.

This man, Ward Bird, has hurt no one. He was on his own land. He does not deserve such a life altering consequence. This is just not right.

He should not have a criminal record or spend any time behind bars. :mad:

[fatlazyless]

I agree that Ward Bird should be getting some type of community service sentence to be determined by a judge who knows about alternative sentencing as opposed to doing three to six years in prison/jail. Put Ward to work with an electric sander and a gallon of tile red floor paint and have him refinish the Moultonborough library floor and staircase that goes down to the basement. Follow that up by painting the basement walls a warm friendly shade of medium yellow. If he does a good job working down in the basement, then have him start refinishing the bookshelves upstairs with some satin finish polyurethane, the expensive stuff, or something!

Sometimes people just get annoyed and go wave a handgun around as a power gesture when they should be keeping it holstered and out of sight. It happens?

I continue to say that his irritability factor could easily have been influenced by his medical operation recovery at the time of the incident as that tends to make people a little cranky, sometimes.

Instead of sticking to his guns and maintaining his determination and taking his case to the NH Supremes, maybe he would have been better off just agreeing to settle for less legal success by accepting the offered plea bargain?

As an alternative to sitting around a jail and not doing much except reading and watching tv, it could well be that he would welcome the opportunity to scrape, sand, and paint some of the inside walls and surfaces at the Carroll County Jail?

www.carrollcountynh.net

Ok, excuse me while I run for the bomb shelter, before you all start hurling the proverbial mud and rocks at me!:rolleye2:

[Yosemite Sam]

Good article on the front page of todays LDS (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2010/12/18L.pdf) that talks about the petition to free Ward Bird.


“At the request of the newly elected Speaker of the N.H. House William O’Brien, Gov. John Lynch yesterday met with him and a small delegation of legislators to receive a petition supporting a pardon for Ward Bird.

The petition, signed by about 100 representatives from both parties, asks that Lynch “take the necessary steps” to release Bird from the Carroll County Jail before Christmas.
“It is well known and understood that if this request is acted upon it would represent a very rare circumstance for a convicted felon in this state,” wrote O’Brien.”

[Yosemite Sam]

Seems pretty clear the guy broke the law, and is paying the price for it. Where it sounds like this really went wrong is possibly what he admitted to and how poorly his attorney handled it. I think the law was pretty clear.

As a longtime gun owner I dont think he should be given a pass for anything. You dont wave pistols at people in anger. This is the type of thing that results in a few shootings that result in absurd gun laws like NJ/NY impose. It affects all of us law abiding people who want to enjoy their rights. Should you sit in jail for years? NO!!...but you shouldn't own any guns. I suspect any others he owned have been taken. Losing that right and some anger management/community service seems safe and fair and punishment enough.

People make mistakes, it could have been far worse. The sad part is how quickly you can railroad yourself by not abiding to the golden rule - Dont say a word to anyone. Nobody is out to protect the gun owner. Nobody is on your side.

The right to remain silent is as important as the right to bear arms! With a closed mouth and representation with a brain this would not have happened.

Ward Bird did not admit anything and his attorney did everything he was supposed to do. For some reason the jurors believed her and not him.:(

Please go HERE (http://freewardbird.org/) and read the "Trial Documents" that are posted there and you will see that Ward did not say he waved or pointed a gun at her.

[MarkinNH]

Seems pretty clear the guy broke the law, and is paying the price for it. Where it sounds like this really went wrong is possibly what he admitted to and how poorly his attorney handled it. I think the law was pretty clear.

As a longtime gun owner I dont think he should be given a pass for anything. You dont wave pistols at people in anger. This is the type of thing that results in a few shootings that result in absurd gun laws like NJ/NY impose. It affects all of us law abiding people who want to enjoy their rights. Should you sit in jail for years? NO!!...but you shouldn't own any guns. I suspect any others he owned have been taken. Losing that right and some anger management/community service seems safe and fair and punishment enough.

People make mistakes, it could have been far worse. The sad part is how quickly you can railroad yourself by not abiding to the golden rule - Dont say a word to anyone. Nobody is out to protect the gun owner. Nobody is on your side.

The right to remain silent is as important as the right to bear arms! With a closed mouth and representation with a brain this would not have happened.

Have you even bothered to read ANY of the court transcripts ??
There is NO PROOF or WITNESS'S that back up or support the claim that he EVER WAVED A GUN at Anybody !! Only the "say so" of the woman !
I to have been an owner of firearms since I was a boy and have actively carried concealed for the last 30+ years. Now I am no Einstein, but there is a huge difference in taking a handgun out of it's holster to check it's safety and waving it in somebody's face

[fatlazyless]

Here's what should probably be considered an unconfirmed source from the email comments in today's Union Leader.

"Let's keep in mind that this is not the first time Mr. Bird has been in trouble with the law for misuse of a weapon. In 2002, he was fined for some mischief with a gun. His wife is sure he made an honest mistake."

Chris K, Strafford NH

[Yosemite Sam]

Here's what should probably be considered an unconfirmed source from the email comments in today's Union Leader.

"Let's keep in mind that this is not the first time Mr. Bird has been in trouble with the law for misuse of a weapon. In 2002, he was fined for some mischief with a gun. His wife is sure he made an honest mistake."

Chris K, Strafford NH

I really like you FLL....I really do....I think most of your posts are funny and you seem to make comments as you see them, be it right or wrong in other peoples eyes.

But when you post something that is either a comment from a news source article or from an unconfirmed email comment, then it bothers me and I'm sure it bothers other forum members even more.

Now go to McDonalds and get a Happy Meal so their stock will go up a little.:)

Just my 2 cents!

[Pineedles]

I am so thankful to the Legislators that signed the petition and met with Governor Lynch. I pray for his pardon and release.

[Newbiesaukee]

This is WMUR re: previous gun problems:


"Ward's prison sentence for criminal threatening with his gun on his own property isn't the first time he's come up against law enforcement.

In 2002, he was fined for 'unauthorized use of firearms' for being in a 'compact part of Moultonborough' and 'discharging a pistol ... without written permission of the chief of police.'

Bird paid a $480 fine. His wife, Virginia, said it was an accident while Bird was target practicing."


I guess one could take the position that this is irrrelevant to the present episode; but then to be consistent, the women's past history is just as irrelevant to the present episode.
I don't know Ward Bird, but just trying to point out the slippery slope of wanting all past actions to be admissable in court. If I did not have all the 'facts' as presented on the Forum, I might just think this guy is pretty irresponsible if he had two run-ins with the law regarding firearms.

[katiesmom]

I am shaking my head reading this story and cannot believe it to be true!! A whacked out women comes on your property peering into your windows and is belligerent when you ask her to leave and HE gets time in jail?? What a bunch of buffoons in the NH justice system from bottom to top!! A complete embarassment!! I thought Florida had a bunch of morons but this completely tops it!!

[Yosemite Sam]

This is WMUR re: previous gun problems:


"Ward's prison sentence for criminal threatening with his gun on his own property isn't the first time he's come up against law enforcement.

In 2002, he was fined for 'unauthorized use of firearms' for being in a 'compact part of Moultonborough' and 'discharging a pistol ... without written permission of the chief of police.'

Bird paid a $480 fine. His wife, Virginia, said it was an accident while Bird was target practicing."


I guess one could take the position that this is irrrelevant to the present episode; but then to be consistent, the women's past history is just as irrelevant to the present episode.
I don't know Ward Bird, but just trying to point out the slippery slope of wanting all past actions to be admissable in court. If I did not have all the 'facts' as presented on the Forum, I might just think this guy is pretty irresponsible if he had two run-ins with the law regarding firearms.

Thanks Newbiesaukee…..but I think that if the trial would have let both sides bring up the past of the victim and the accused, we all know who would have been the winner and loser in that deal.

[Yosemite Sam]

No there isn't....and this case proves that.

Sorry - you wont ever find a firearm instructor/trainer/etc that would ever testify that a gun should be removed from a holster during a confrontation to "check the safety is on"

Not buying it for a second, and sounds like nobody else did. He likely fully admitted he took that loaded gun out and held it in his hand. WHY? to check the safety? C'mon...:rolleye2:

Tempers and firearms dont mix. That gun never comes out of its holster during a confrontation unless deadly force MAY be necessary. Did he call 911? did he retreat to a safe area? Was she armed? (with anything?) Was it even a surprise that she was there? (he was told she was coming?) This is not a hard case folks. Unfortunate - yes...but not hard by the law.

And why do people keep bringing up this nutty womans past? I thought we lived in the USA here? Be as nutty as you want, but if someone pulls a loaded gun on an unarmed person why should your nutty past matter? Neither persons past is on trial here, and never will be. (Thank God)

From the sounds of it he seems like a nice guy, and she sounds like a f'n wackjob...but thats not the point, is it?

I truly hope (and highly doubt) his sentence gets majorly reduced here. Its not a fair sentence. As a Life Member of the NRA and firearm enthusiast I also hope Mr Bird never owns a firearm again.

I’m sure you are a hero in many people’s eyes as far as knowing how to handle a firearm…however…if you read the Trial Documents (http://freewardbird.org/)Ward Bird did not admit to having a gun in his hand while talking to the victim.

I was a doubter in the beginning of this thread but after reading the Trial Documents I have changed my mind.

[Resident 2B]

I just spent more than 10 hours reading and re-reading the entire transcript of State v Ward Bird. I encourage everyone with an interest or an opinion in this matter to do the same, so that they understand what went on in the courtroom.

For all the members of this jury to believe a person who was trespassing, who had significant differences between what she testified under oath and the written statements she made within a day of the incident, and find the defendant and property owner, Ward Bird, guilty is beyond my ability to comprehend.

In addition, on the WMUR web site is a recorded interview of Ward and he clearly says he did not do what he was accused of doing. Here is a link to that interview: http://www.wmur.com/news/26173059/detail.html

After doing this reading and listening to Ward's statement, I have decided to start making contributions to the cause. Thanks to YS, there is a link to the Free Ward Bird web site where you can read the transcript and also donate to a fund that will help Ward and his family. Here is that link: http://freewardbird.org/

Thanks to all the legislators for getting the petition going and I pray that the Governor and his staff do the right thing and parton Ward, and do it quickly please. This wrong has to be addressed. It is totally unfair to Ward, his wife and their childern.

R2B

[RailroadJoe]

Does anybody know any of the jurors that were on the case? Would make for good reading. I honestly think our justice system needs a major overhaul. The statement to the jury by the judge is quite bit of legal mumbo jumbo. Really need people with logic and common sense, not run of the mill people passing lots of laws.

[SAMIAM]

http://www.grassshoppingminpins.net/page34
This is the lady who's word the MPD and the county attorney took over a local scout leader, church deacon, farmer who has lived most of his life in this community.

[RailroadJoe]

And of course, they can not allow that to appear in court. Stupid justice. The part truth aand only the part truth.

[fatlazyless]

Anyone looking for something to do on Friday evening? www.freewardbird.org has a Christmas virgil & songfest sing-a-long planned for the Center Harbor band gazebo, just across from the post office, on Friday, December 24, from 6-7pm. Should maybe be a big turn-out what with all the strong local interest plus there will be a musical band and some talented singers/musicians.

Not able to get there? You should be able to attend it "virtually" on line, I believe at www.freewardbird.org, but that may be incorrect.

What would be real nice to see would be a strong rendition of Jail House Rock, the popular Elvis song, but performed by an Elvis style look-a-like made up to look just like WARD. Would that get any attention or what? Oh well......ho-hum.....just a thought......I bettcha that Annie & The Orphans band from Center Harbor could put that all together real good in about 20-minutes of rehearsal time.:D:laugh::D

...arrrrrrrooooooooo.....oops...sorry Hound-Dog...it's not your song!

You might be surprised about this, but just a little bit of Elvis can go a long way in motivating public support!

Can you believe it, this Christmas Eve "Free Ward Bird" virgil & songfest is the lead front page story in today's Dec 22 www.unionleader.com .......

The Center Harbor band gazebo is a terrific designer-archirtected public structure located on the sloping town green just across from the Center Harbor Congregational Church, Center Harbor post office, & fire station/police station/town office and Center Harbor Public Library, and the sloping hill creates a large outdoor ampitheater style venue. One heck of a good spot for an outdoor concert, and hopefully the weather will be friendly!

Will you be there?

[Yosemite Sam]

On the front page of todays LDS (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2010/12/23L.pdf) it states the following:

"Police records suggest Ward Bird’s accuser stumbled into
a heated dispute between members of large M’boro family"

This is a very interesting read!

I didn't realize that there was a family feud going on about the land that Harris was interested in buying.

[fatlazyless]

This is a very interesting read![/B]

Looks like Ward definately goes first class with both his choice of a handgun and his choice of a defense attorney.

I had been think'n that he had an old .45 WW2 style gun, but this article says it is a Sig Sauer 45 which is something that a police officer could easily be carrying. A gun like that probably costs about $750, and is made in Switzerland.

I still say that for about 8.99, he could of got himself a first class corn broom and then used the broom to be waving off any lost women look'n for directions.:D Besides, no way can you sweep the floor with a $750 Sig .45!

[nvtngtxpyr]

... and is made in Switzerland.



The Sig Sauer factory is located in Exeter New Hampshire.

[fatlazyless]

Something like the individual parts get machined back home in Switzerland, and then they get assembled in Exeter, in order to save money on U.S. import fees? Or, something like that, I don't know?

Have you seen the little white oval rear windshield stickers on local cars that say Sig Sauer? What's the message there:rolleye2:?

Anyone know where I can get a similar white oval sticker that says O'Cedar, which as you probably know, is a high-priced maker of mops and quality brooms? Protected by an O'Cedar.....so just back off....you there:cool:!

[Shedwannabe]

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

[Argie's Wife]

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

If Harris' past can't be used in court, why would Bird's past be used in court? Isn't that a double standard?

Even if the article is true, why would that justify a man spending 3-6 years in prison because he waved a firearm at someone running her mouth, refusing to leave, and being a pest? I could see some prison time for that, perhaps... apparently there was no reasonable doubt left that he did something wrong; but isn't the sentence just a bit extreme?

What's next? Are we going to start cutting the hands off kids who steal lollypops?

[brk-lnt]

I don't know



This is the most accurate thing you've posted in this thread so far!
:D

[lawn psycho]

Anyone know where I can get a similar white oval sticker that says O'Cedar, which as you probably know, is a high-priced maker of mops and quality brooms? Protected by an O'Cedar.....so just back off....you there:cool:!

FLL, every time you post about using a broom I have this picture go through my head about you.....

[MarkinNH]

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

I don't see how it would put egg on anybodys face. It doesn't change the Fact that the woman was tresspassing and refused to leave when asked and then ordered to. It doesn't change the Fact that there is No Proof that Ward ever "waved" a gun in her face or threatened her in any way. It doesn't change the Fact that Ward should not be spending a minimum of 3 years in prison.
All it means is that he doesn't or didn't get along with some of his relatives.
I am sure that the same thing can be said about 99.9% of every family in the world.

[rrr]

I agree with AW that you can't look at his past if you can't look at hers.

According to the article: Harris said she was trying to ask him if he was Steven. Steven was not the owner of the property she wanted to see. Steven was 'romantically involved' with the owner. How much information do realtors give out about the owners of property they are showing? Before they show it? I can't imagine how Harris would have known about Steven.

They waited to take his statement because he was recovering from surgery. If he wasn't up to giving a statement, what are the chances he was jumping around waving a gun?

Maybe he's not squeaky clean - but neither is she. Why was her version given more credence than his? He said he overreacted. Maybe he was referring to the language he used.

[twoplustwo]

Curious what people think about the long article in the LDS? If it is true (i.e. the extensive police interactions re: dispute between Bird and wife's family pre-Harris incident) that would be a pretty big egg on your face to much of the pontificating going on these last 290+ posts.

Funny how in the "extensive police interactions", the aggressor is never Ward. When normally wonderful people turn into the poster children for not mixing alcohol, anger, and firearms, you call the cops and you get restraining orders. Nothing about the long standing feud changes my mind (and I "pontificated" about it earlier, so none of that is news to me).


FLL, your "Jailhouse Rock" joke makes me want to dope slap you. Too bad you can't buy a clue from the McD's Dollar Menu.

[Lucky1]

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did? I came in mid posts list and thought he shot someone. Are you saying that he just showed the gun?? And got three years in jail? I know it is early and I have not had a lot of sleep but can this possibly be what happened?

I was once in my home in Moultonborough with my daughters and heard what sounded like someone on the roof and then someone coming up the basement stairs. My daughters and I sat with our feet against the bedroom door. We were so scared that we shouted out something like, "GO AWAY. LEAVE US ALONE." I called 911 immediately. We were so terrified that I remember saying, "Please hurry" to 911 as I thought there was someone on the stairs coming up to harm us. It turned out to be a male teenager who was just trying to scare one of my daughters?? The policemen risked their lives racing down the neck road to get to us. The teenager had meant no real harm so after the police scolded him they let him go. I do know how someone feels who is thinking someone is breaking into their home to harm them. I have never been tempted to get a gun though. We are sure lucky to have such wonderful public servants such as the police and firemen who do their best to keep us all safe.

[Yosemite Sam]

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did?

The only thing Ward Bird did was to ask someone to get off his property (which was clearly posted)….he didn’t have a gun in his hand…that’s it…..now he is spending 3-6 years in prison.

I hope that paragraph clears it up for you.


Merry Christmas!

[SAMIAM]

Lucky, you are well named. As wonderful as our public servants are, as you stated, you would have been long gone by the time they arrived if that person meant you harm. Anyone who lives in a rural or isolated location would be smart to learn how to use a gun for home protection.
911 didn't help the Cates family when their home was invaded and I wonder if that Dr in Connecticut was wishing he had a firearm on hand when his family was murdered.
The police can not be everywhere and crimes happen in a matter of minutes.

[sa meredith]

In case anyone is interested...an article in my local paper this morning.
This woman spends alot of time in court rooms...
http://www.eagletribune.com/newhampshire/x636373337/Animal-cruelty-trial-slated-for-January#

[NoBozo]

Is there a simple paragraph that would say what Ward did?

Ward was RUDE. :look: NB

[Lucky1]

ward was rude. :look: Nb

was this a jury or a judge? Sounds crazy to me.

[NoBozo]

was this a jury or a judge? Sounds crazy to me.

BOTH Judge and Jury..and then an appeal, which he also lost. The moral of the story is: Don't be RUDE to an unwanted visitor on your own property. :look:

Rudness is "Not Politically Correct". NB

[MarkinNH]

BOTH Judge and Jury..and then an appeal, which he also lost. The moral of the story is: Don't be RUDE to an unwanted visitor on your own property. :look:

Rudness is "Not Politically Correct". NB

I am quite sure you meant to say an UNWANTED TRESPASSER, since that is what the woman was !

This is just the type of comment I would expect to hear from a Pansy a$$ whining liberal who feels that the world needs to always play nice and never step on someone else's toes in fear of hurting their feelings or injuring their psyche. God, stand up and grow a pair !
Let me enlighten you NoBozo. This is the Real World !! Here in the real world if I find an unwanted trespasser on MY land, land that I pay for with my hard earned money ! I will be as damned rude to them as I feel necessary !!
If you want to invite them in for tea and cupcakes, go right ahead, just make sure your cell phone is handy in case you need to call 911 while your cowering in the corner.
Merry Christmas :)

[NoBozo]

MarkinNH[/I];146517]I am quite sure you meant to say an UNWANTED TRESPASSER, since that is what the woman was !

This is just the type of comment I would expect to hear from a Pansy a$$ whining liberal who feels that the world needs to always play nice and never step on someone else's toes in fear of hurting their feelings or injuring their psyche. God, stand up and grow a pair !
Let me enlighten you NoBozo. This is the Real World !! Here in the real world if I find an unwanted trespasser on MY land, land that I pay for with my hard earned money ! I will be as damned rude to them as I feel necessary !!
If you want to invite them in for tea and cupcakes, go right ahead, just make sure your cell phone is handy in case you need to call 911 while your cowering in the corner.
Merry Christmas :)

Hey MarkinNH: I AGREE with you. I'm just illustrating Absurdity with Absurdity. It's Christmas Eve. My posts were "Tongue In Cheek"...trying to lighten up an unpleasent situation.

SO: I guess I am just Busting Your PAIR. Merry Christmas Mark. :D :D NB

PS: I have NEVER been called a LIBERAL. Wash your mouth out with soap...:)

[MarkinNH]

Hey MarkinNH: I AGREE with you. I'm just illustrating Absurdity with Absurdity. It's Christmas Eve. My posts were "Tongue In Cheek"...trying to lighten up an unpleasent situation.

SO: I guess I am just Busting Your PAIR. Merry Christmas Mark. :D :D NB

PS: I have NEVER beeen called a LIBERAL. Wash your mouth out with soap...:)

NoBozo, My sincerest apologies for being as rude as I know my post sounded. :)

[NoBozo]

NoBozo, My sincerest apologies for being as rude as I know my post sounded. :)

Apologies accepted... but NOT Necessary Mark. :) NB

[sa meredith]

Folks...is it at all possible we should be attacking the law, and the way it is written? As opposed to the Judge/Jury/ each other?
I mean...seriously..a judge can't be an uneducated fool...and probably not a jury for that matter. They determined a law was broken...and at that point there is no 2 ways to look at it. They were forced to make judgement based on the law and the way it is written...their opinions of right or wrong or common sense would have no place it the courtroom.
Merry Christmas. I'm hoping Santa brings me my first gun.
"You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"
fa wa wa wa wa, wa wa wa wa... Great movie.

[GM doc]

Well Santa just showed up uninvited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ApS]

911 didn't help the Cates family when their home was invaded and I wonder if that Dr in Connecticut was wishing he had a firearm on hand when his family was murdered.

The police can not be everywhere and crimes happen in a matter of minutes.
"When seconds count, the police are just minutes (http://novatownhall.com/2008/03/20/when-seconds-count-the-police-are-only-minutes-away/) away".
:rolleye1:

[Sunrise Point]

This has made the front page of today's Boston Globe.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2010/12/25/prison_term_for_native_son_draws_ire_of_nh_town/

Mr. Bird, I hope that you are home soon.

[sa meredith]

Well Santa just showed up uninvited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep...you're right. Santa did indeed show up, but my neighbor saw him on my roof, and took him out with a 12 gauge. Now we have quite a situation on our hands.

Hope I have not offended anyone...Merry Christmas everyone!

[VitaBene]

:rolleye1:

Just checking, did you mean a rolleyes at Samiam's post? If so, I would love to know what you disagree with.

[songkrai]

My $0.02 cents.

The "tough on criminals" people want mandatory sentences. This case proves that this viewpoint is flawed.

But go way way back to the beginning.

If Jimmy was still chief - none of this would have progressed beyond Mr. Birds yard. Jimmy would have told the lady to leave and Jimmy would have told Mr. Bird to go back into his house. End of story.

This may be a tad oversimplified.

[wifi]

The town sure was different back then. No radar, if they thought you were speeding, they would pull you over and have a 20-30 minute talk about the weather.... you got the idea :laugh:

When we'd go out on a call at night, Jimmy would show up in his overalls, with his chiefs badge on it. He was a character.

Thanks for the nostalgia trip...

[Yosemite Sam]

The town sure was different back then. No radar, if they thought you were speeding, they would pull you over and have a 20-30 minute talk about the weather.... you got the idea :laugh:

When we'd go out on a call at night, Jimmy would show up in his overalls, with his chiefs badge on it. He was a character.

Thanks for the nostalgia trip...

Wow!!! 12 full time police officers. Mountonboro has gone from a police force like Mayberry RFD to one like a big city would have.

Between 1972 and 2008 the Moultonborough Police Department expanded its full time ranks from one officer to twelve.

No wonder there is a crusier sitting at every corner of Moultonboro waiting to arrest you and throw you in the slammer! :(

http://localhostr.com/file/FykJqlx/Moultonboro%20police.JPG

[lawn psycho]

Wow!!! 12 full time police officers. Mountonboro has gone from a police force like Mayberry RFD to one like a big city would have.

Between 1972 and 2008 the Moultonborough Police Department expanded its full time ranks from one officer to twelve.

No wonder there is a crusier sitting at every corner of Moultonboro waiting to arrest you and throw you in the slammer! :(

http://localhostr.com/file/FykJqlx/Moultonboro%20police.JPG

Instead of names, they should post the salary and fringe benefit cost of each member of the police department. As long as people check 'yes' at the ballot box on your town budget this is how it goes.

In Old Orchard Beach, there was a study done that showed if they got rid of all the businesses that cause the need for large police and fire departments that the tax bill to residents would go down substaintially.

[Argie's Wife]

I think you're crossing a line here with your posts about the police department, the officers' benefits, etc.

Yes, there's 12 full-time officers but there's an officer at the station 24/7. Having staff sufficient to cover that kind of schedule and not collecting overtime is part of the justification for the number of full-time officers. Considering the time spent doing paperwork, time spent in court, dealing with regular patrol, school resource officer duties, etc., having 12 full-time officers in a town of 5,035 resident (year-round only), and with a population increase of over 12% since year 2000, it makes sense. There's 2.38 officers per 1,000 residents; the US average is 3.00 officers per 1,000 residents. [SOURCE (http://www.city-data.com/city/Moultonborough-New-Hampshire.html)]

But stats aside...

These men and women you're complaining about making an income off your tax dollar are still residents in your community, for the most part... They're dad or mom, husband or wife, sister or brother, son or daughter - parts of our families here in the area. Just because a judge/jury made some bad decisions - or whatever - don't give the men and women who are simply doing their job a load of grief. They don't deserve it.

They don't make the laws; their job is to enforce the laws.

FYI - a police officer in NH makes about $35,000 (average experience) (about $18/hr), and their benefits are no different than any other town employee's benefits, unless they're part of a union (not the case in M'Boro). [SOURCE (http://www.ihirelawenforcement.com/t-Police-s-New-Hampshire-salary.html)] They get NH state retirement, FICA, health insurance (if they chose to take it), etc.

So, think about it... $18/hr to put your life on the line - to serve and protect the citizens of your town... Would you do it?

If you begrudge them their income, perhaps you should change profession.

[Heaven]

"In Old Orchard Beach, there was a study done that showed if they got rid of all the businesses that cause the need for large police and fire departments that the tax bill to residents would go down substaintially."
All I can say to this is . . . huh?

[XCR-700]

Wow this is indeed a very troubling situation,,,

I would not be surprised to see such madness down here in MA, but I thought (or more correctly hoped) that NH would have treated a situation like this very differently.

It looks like NH has turned to the dark side and the MA border really has moved north, sadly much farther than I had imagined,,,

I am an outsider to this, but I can tell you all that if you don’t find a way to turn this tide back, you will surly regret it.

I do not know Mr. Bird and make no attempt to use him as any example, but the situation speaks for itself. If you concede that he was on his land, then so long as he was not using his gun in any other way than displaying it as a warning (drawn or not) and this is the outcome, then you folks are in serious trouble of becoming another Massachusetts!

I don’t care to debate the folks who argue run if you have the option, we need not live in fear regardless if we are on our own land or ANYWHERE.

If you trespass you risk a serious warning which should include display of a firearm and a potentially citizens arrest until LE can respond.

If we are in a public place and face any reasonable perceived danger we must have the right to defend ourselves, which should include removing a gun from its holster. Using it is another matter and carries its own consequences, but if we continue to allow our ability to defend ourselves to be taken from us, we will surly become a people of the government, and the foundation to which our country was founded (a government of the people) will have come to pass and our way of life where personal freedom is a cherished right, not a privilege for the wealthy and powerful few, will have come to an end.

Unlike those of us in MA you folks still have a chance,,, but don’t wait too long or you will not have any say.

If what I have read here is even partially true, this is a travesty. And to that end, I salute the overwhelming majority of you who appear to be supporting the Bird family. I sincerely hope their suffering ends soon and this matter is resolved and Mr. Birds freedom is restored.

[Heaven]

My $0.02 cents.

The "tough on criminals" people want mandatory sentences. This case proves that this viewpoint is flawed.

But go way way back to the beginning.

If Jimmy was still chief - none of this would have progressed beyond Mr. Birds yard. Jimmy would have told the lady to leave and Jimmy would have told Mr. Bird to go back into his house. End of story.

This may be a tad oversimplified.
I think someone would have had to call "Jimmy" first.
Did Mr. Ward call "Jimmy"?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Remember when you were a kid and your sibling said that the next stage in your fight was they were "going to tell mom"? Your instinct was to preemptively tell mom that you were the victim to diffuse the trouble you were in? This strategy was best done if you were first.

I was not there, but it sounds the call to the cops was much like the kid avoiding the wrath of mom by becoming the victim before the truth be told. Who had the desperate incentive to be the victim here? I think she called first.

[ApS]

FYI - a police officer in NH makes about $35,000 (average experience) (about $18/hr), and their benefits are no different than any other town employee's benefits, unless they're part of a union (not the case in M'Boro)...$18/hr to put your life on the line - to serve and protect the citizens of your town... Would you do it? If you begrudge them their income, perhaps you should change profession.
Keep in mind that some are also military reservists. Some municipalities elsewhere even allow LEOs full pay for the "double-dipping" of Reservists. :eek2: As long as it's less than two weeks per annum, I still don't begrudge them their pay. :) :coolsm:

Just checking, did you mean a rolleyes at Samiam's post? If so, I would love to know what you disagree with.
1) I'm sure Samiam understands that I agree with him. The rolleyes was only to indicate that such a succinct sentence will be missed—or dismissed—by too many.

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

2) I support those trained in whatever one's choice of self-protection is—lethal or non-lethal. As it should, that training (which I'll dub "Rule 308 (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?rls=GGLD,GGLD%3A2005-04,GGLD%3Aen&hl=en&q=cache:Bjj1t7QlOWMJ:http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/08/section_133_rule_1830_rule_308.html+%22rule-303%22,+%22rule-308%22&ct=clnk)") has contributed to a decreased reliance on our "Thin Blue Line".

3) The proliferation of cellphones is a different matter for law enforcement.

4) Waving a broom would never fall under the "training" I'm discussing.

Cue some rolleyes here:

:rolleye2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1:

[tummyman]

A road rage incident in Manchester NH on Rt 101West yesterday afternoon involved two individuals, one of which showed a 9mm handgun out the drivers side window. 911 was called and state police subsequently arrested one person. The gun was recovered and the person (21 years old) is being held on $2500 cash bail and allegedly will be arraigned later today on a charge of felony criminal threatening. Wasn't that the same charge Ward was charged with ? This should be an interesting development. See the article in todays on line Manchester Union Leader.

[Jonas Pilot]

There aren't many similarities between the two incidents.

[lawn psycho]

I think you're crossing a line here with your posts about the police department, the officers' benefits, etc.

Yes, there's 12 full-time officers but there's an officer at the station 24/7. Having staff sufficient to cover that kind of schedule and not collecting overtime is part of the justification for the number of full-time officers. Considering the time spent doing paperwork, time spent in court, dealing with regular patrol, school resource officer duties, etc., having 12 full-time officers in a town of 5,035 resident (year-round only), and with a population increase of over 12% since year 2000, it makes sense. There's 2.38 officers per 1,000 residents; the US average is 3.00 officers per 1,000 residents. [SOURCE (http://www.city-data.com/city/Moultonborough-New-Hampshire.html)]

But stats aside...

These men and women you're complaining about making an income off your tax dollar are still residents in your community, for the most part... They're dad or mom, husband or wife, sister or brother, son or daughter - parts of our families here in the area. Just because a judge/jury made some bad decisions - or whatever - don't give the men and women who are simply doing their job a load of grief. They don't deserve it.

They don't make the laws; their job is to enforce the laws.

FYI - a police officer in NH makes about $35,000 (average experience) (about $18/hr), and their benefits are no different than any other town employee's benefits, unless they're part of a union (not the case in M'Boro). [SOURCE (http://www.ihirelawenforcement.com/t-Police-s-New-Hampshire-salary.html)] They get NH state retirement, FICA, health insurance (if they chose to take it), etc.

So, think about it... $18/hr to put your life on the line - to serve and protect the citizens of your town... Would you do it?

If you begrudge them their income, perhaps you should change profession.

I don't want to derail this thread BUT, you're wrong. First, their salaries are public record. Second, many in small towns complain about high taxes. So when they decide to check "YES" on budget items they have no one to blame but themselves. No one is begruding anyone their pay, but when you assign a dollar figure to that headcount, and if you did that at the ballot, people would be a little more reluctant to check the yes box.

Stats? So you want to use a national average for a small New England town that goes dormant in the winter? Let's compare crimes rates in Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, etc.

Yankees want big town benefits but these small mini-mob towns don't have enough economy of scale. This is why NH and ME struggle to tackle their funding issues.

FYI, I have served on a town budget board so step down from the soap box honey, I've heard it all.

Carry on.

[XCR-700]

My $0.02 cents.

The "tough on criminals" people want mandatory sentences. This case proves that this viewpoint is flawed.

But go way way back to the beginning.

If Jimmy was still chief - none of this would have progressed beyond Mr. Birds yard. Jimmy would have told the lady to leave and Jimmy would have told Mr. Bird to go back into his house. End of story.

This may be a tad oversimplified.

I would argue that its not flawed at all, just used in the wrong places!

Showing/displaying/”Brandishing a handgun (or whatever you want to call it) on ones own property is in no way a violent crime, ant that’s where you want to focus most of your mandatory sentencing efforts.

I believe in erring on the side of conservative actions, and mandatory sentencing has a place in our legal system, the question is where and when and how much.

This is a case where it was applied incorrectly (maybe intentionally so to build support against mandatory sentencing) so from my perspective it’s a good concept, but one that needs to be implemented VERY carefully!

[Heaven]

"FYI, I have served on a town budget board so step down from the soap box honey, I've heard it all."
Can your opinion stand on its own without belittling the previous poster by referring to her as "honey"?

[TheProfessor]

[QUOTE=Argie's Wife;146632] I think you're crossing a line here with your posts about the police department, the officers' benefits, etc.
QUOTE]

How many officers does Center Harbor have? How many officers does Sandwich have?

Me thinks that this town is a tad bloated. How many captains, lieutenants, sargents, corporals, dectectives, canines, schools, do we have? Is their pay higher then a patrolman/woman.

The picture above says a lot. How many do we in the office doing "paperwork"?

Just a conjecture here. It seems that if a person has some run in with the force here previously - then there seems to be a presumption that action should be taken with any other activities that said person does.

As someone stated above. Jimmy would have just talked to both and that would have been the end. What happened to talking?

In the very beginning it was her word against his. Why did this progress to more? Maybe these higher ups need some negotiation skills training.

Why was the out of town ladies word taken above the word of an in town resident?

Yes we are a country of laws. But if all who drive 1MPH over the speed limit then all of us would be criminals. A little discretion goes a long way. In reading all it appears that discretion is a tad lacking nowadays.

A little discretion would have kept this case right here and gone no further.

[lawn psycho]

Can your opinion stand on its own without belittling the previous poster by referring to her as "honey"?

Actually no, I didn't appreciate her condescending attitude. Look at how she titled her post.

You see, there are TWO sides of an equation and in her world there is one. Go re-read her post..... I've seen her kind (thinks she know EVERYTHING about local town government) so many times that I just give a big :rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1: and move on.

[lawn psycho]

Yes we are a country of laws. But if all who drive 1MPH over the speed limit then all of us would be criminals. A little discretion goes a long way. In reading all it appears that discretion is a tad lacking nowadays.


Come on. Things are slow in Moultonborough and besides, you don't want to deny that officer a chance to spend a day in court do you? That might even mean some OVERTIME. Woo-hoo!

[MarkinNH]

Why was the out of town ladies word taken above the word of an in town resident?

Because the County Prosecutor "at the time" Hates men ( her preferences are no secret) and was looking to make an example out of one.

[XCR-700]

As a gun owner, I hope the driver spends a nice long time in jail..

How many times is it proven that tempers and firearms dont mix?

Road rage and pull out your 9MM? - good luck with that one kid.

Shouldn’t that depend on who has the temper and who has the pistol???

I might argue that if you are the victim being threatened by the guy with the temper, then you are fully within your right to pull, threaten to use, and use your gun in your own defense in all situations. Why is it my problem that you might have a temper problem?

Now if it’s you who has the temper and the gun, and I have neither, then I’m looking for any way out of that situation that I can find.

Its all about perspective, but be very careful giving up your right to defend yourself or making statements that someone else can use to illustrate your support of divesting yourself of your rights because I can assure you there will be someone who is watching and will use it against you at some point I the future, just take a look at our situation in MA,,, Under MA laws we are almost better off to give our guns to the criminals than to use them against them,,, Pretty sad state of affairs down here,,,

[lawn psycho]

Remember when you were a kid and your sibling said that the next stage in your fight was they were "going to tell mom"? Your instinct was to preemptively tell mom that you were the victim to diffuse the trouble you were in? This strategy was best done if you were first.

I was not there, but it sounds the call to the cops was much like the kid avoiding the wrath of mom by becoming the victim before the truth be told. Who had the desperate incentive to be the victim here? I think she called first.

I thought something similar to this. Maybe when she first confronted him and thought she was not to be fooled by him not being the owner and then realizing he was serious did she realize she pushed him too far and he was going to call the cops.

I am of the belief that my home is my castle. I think the cops used poor judgement in bringing charges.

Personally, I like the Joe Horn approach using the 'castle defense': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLtKCC7z0yc

They have things the right way in Texas:laugh: Joe Horn is the kind of neighbor I could only dream of having.

[lawn psycho]

All I can say to this is . . . huh?

Simple. The businesses in OOB generate miniscule tax revenue compared to the number of fire and police services required to serve the people they attract. The town explodes in population but tax revenues don't go up with it. The state coffers may benefit but local tax payers do not. I have to dig up the study as it was stored on my old desktop so not sure if I have it any more.

Unfortunately not all business is 'good' business for tax payers.

[Heaven]

Because the County Prosecutor "at the time" Hates men ( her preferences are no secret) and was looking to make an example out of one.
This factoid must be really important to your evaluation of this case as you have posted it twice. I think that even in New Hampshire, most people have gotten past evaluating a person's job performance based on their sexual orientation.

[MarkinNH]

it This factoid must be really important to your evaluation of this case as you have posted it twice. I think that even in New Hampshire, most people have gotten past evaluating a person's job performance based on their sexual orientation.

A question was asked and I replied with an answer that "in my opinion" I feel is correct.
Personally I don't care what her preferences or sexual orientation may be. To each their own. But IMO this woman did not prosecute this case from an unbiased stand point.
I believe she pegged Ward as guilty the moment the case file landed on her desk. Truth and Justice played no role in her perseverance of this case. She couldn't have cared less if Ward was innocent of the womans accusations.
She couldn't have cared less if locking him up took him away from his family for 3 years, for something he didn't do.
She couldn't have cared less that this conviction serves no real justice.
She didn't have to bring the charges that she did. There was no proof, witness's or evidence to support the womans accusations
She could have easily used common sense and reasoning, weighed both sides of the story and concluded that this was just a he said / she said dispute that was over, with no harm done and it didn't warrant spending tax payers money to prosecute.
She used her power and position to railroad an honest and innocent man into prison because she was hell bent to set an example. She was out of line and now she is out of a job. Good riddance to her !!

[Heaven]

it

A question was asked and I replied with an answer that "in my opinion" I feel is correct.
Personally I don't care what her preferences or sexual orientation may be. To each their own. But IMO this woman did not prosecute this case from an unbiased stand point.
I believe she pegged Ward as guilty the moment the case file landed on her desk. Truth and Justice played no role in her perseverance of this case. She couldn't have cared less if Ward was innocent of the womans accusations.
She couldn't have cared less if locking him up took him away from his family for 3 years, for something he didn't do.
She couldn't have cared less that this conviction serves no real justice.
She didn't have to bring the charges that she did. There was no proof, witness's or evidence to support the womans accusations
She could have easily used common sense and reasoning, weighed both sides of the story and concluded that this was just a he said / she said dispute that was over, with no harm done and it didn't warrant spending tax payers money to prosecute.
She used her power and position to railroad an honest and innocent man into prison because she was hell bent to set an example. She was out of line and now she is out of a job. Good riddance to her !!
I am not disagreeing or agreeing except that you qualified all of her decisions based on sexual orientation, which is a non-issue typically used when a more compelling argument is absent.

[MarkinNH]

I am not disagreeing or agreeing except that you qualified all of her decisions based on sexual orientation, which is a non-issue typically used when a more compelling argument is absent.

So what other compelling reasons could she have had to pursue this case the way she did ?
She certainly didn't fight for a guilty verdict because the evidence in the case clearly supported one.

[Argie's Wife]

Actually no, I didn't appreciate her condescending attitude. Look at how she titled her post.

You see, there are TWO sides of an equation and in her world there is one. Go re-read her post..... I've seen her kind (thinks she know EVERYTHING about local town government) so many times that I just give a big :rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1: and move on.

I'm amazed that you can take a title like "This Officers' Daughter Is Going To Speak Up Here..." and construe it as being condescending.

I titled my post because I am proud of my father having served a local municipality. It may sound trite but when he passed on, the town (Sanford, ME) dedicated their annual report to him in his memory. I also took a lot of crap from kids and adults growing up because my dad was on the force.

You missed the whole point: these officers you're rating about are PEOPLE. Get it? They have kids in school, families in our towns and the Lakes Region and people like me don't appreciate comments like yours. They're just doing their job - like they're supposed to do. That's what they're paid to do. [And I never said anything about their salaries not being public info - per RSA 91 they certainly are - I don't know why you had to say I was wrong about something I never mentioned... again "Huh?" comes to mind.]

And yes, I do know a lot about town government; I serve on a school board and town budget committee. I don't know everything - and I'm the first to admit it - but I do take exception when people go after personnel of a town - including those who serve and protect, such as fire department officers and police department officers. If you don't like how something is run, than take your comments to the people in charge.

If you *know* so stinkin' much about government, then take your issues up with the people who run the town - the town selectmen. That's where your frustration should be vented. You should know that - you were on a town's budget committee, according to one of your posts here.

And I'm sure you were raised with better manners than to call me 'honey' (please tell me you're not really that sexist in this day and age?!) or to discuss me in your post like I'm not 'in the room' (using "she" and "her" - I'm not a ghost) - you're being very rude.

[nvtngtxpyr]

Looks like Matt Drudge has picked up the cause. He's added the following message in a mouseover to his page.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/ninemil_2006/12-27-20102-12-05PM.png

[Argie's Wife]

Keep in mind that some are also military reservists. Some municipalities elsewhere even allow LEOs full pay for the "double-dipping" of Reservists. :eek2: As long as it's less than two weeks per annum, I still don't begrudge them their pay. :) :coolsm:

2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1: :rolleye2: :rolleye1:

I could be wrong but I believe there's a Federal law that protects enlistees.

If someone is willing to be a reservist and get called into service by the President at anytime, then I have no problem with them getting paid by Uncle Sam and their employer for 2 weeks of the year either.

[Argie's Wife]

Looks like Matt Drudge has picked up the cause. He's added the following message in a mouseover to his page.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/ninemil_2006/12-27-20102-12-05PM.png

That's a paid ad. I've written Drudge, as I'm sure others have, because this would be right up his ally. He hasn't linked the story yet to his site. When the story was in the Boston Globe I thought maybe Drudge would pick it up. Keep hoping...

[Slickcraft]

On Citizen web site today:


Animal cruelty trial looms for woman linked to Ward Bird

Monday, December 27, 2010

BRENTWOOD (AP) — A 57-year-old woman goes on trial Jan. 10 on charges of keeping 47 dogs in her New Hampshire trailer.

Christine Harris, who now lives in South Carolina, was found guilty in 2008 of five counts of animal cruelty for keeping the animals at her Salem home, but she appealed to Rockingham Superior Court. According to the Eagle-Tribune, the floors, walls and dog crates in her home were covered in animal feces and urine.

Harris drew attention in a separate case in which Ward Bird of Moultonborough man was sentenced to three to six years in prison for waving a gun at her in 2006 when she got lost and arrived on his property asking for directions.

More than 100 state representatives are asking Gov. John Lynch to pardon Bird. Supporters say he was within his rights when she ignored his no-trespassing signs.

[Pepper]

... I didn't appreciate her condescending attitude...
Excuse me? HER condescending attitude???? Really?

... I just give a big :rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1::rolleye1: and move on.
Hmmmm.
;)

[lawn psycho]

Excuse me? HER condescending attitude???? Really?


Hmmmm.
;)

No excuse for you either. Go look at her original post. Someone posted the PD image and I simply stated that they should post the salaries with no personal slant towards any single person. Your post called me "over the line" and went on a personal diatribe about how officers need to earn a living, blah, blah, blah. It's action-reaction. You post a snide comment for giving an opinion, you'll get it right back at you. If someone can't deal with it, then think before you type.

I'm not going to explain myself further and I'm sure there are others that see it the way I do.

[Argie's Wife]

No excuse for you either. Go look at her original post. Someone posted the PD image and I simply stated that thye should post thed salaries with no pIt's action-reaction. You post a snide comment for giving an opinion, you'll get it right back at you. If someone can't deal with it, then think before you type.

I'm not going to explain myself further and I'm sure there are others that see it the way I do.

BOLD RED FONT = Huh? I'm sorry but what are you trying to say here? I'm not being the spelling police but your sentence isn't making sense...

You say I posted a snide response - I wasn't snide. I was honest - it was from a family member's perspective of someone who was on the force. You'd rather respond to someone saying "I think you crossed the line" with sarcasm and venom - something you do all the time on this forum. I say I was trying to get you to be more considerate.... oh, never mind. :rolleye1:

[wifi]

Is there somewhere on the "User CP" I can filter this?

I've never filtered out anyone, nor do I want to, but I'd really rather read things applying to the topic. When I get insulted, I just don't reply, no need to defend myself if I'm right, IMHO :)

[Argie's Wife]

Is there somewhere on the "User CP" I can filter this?

I've never filtered out anyone, nor do I want to, but I'd really rather read things applying to the topic. When I get insulted, I just don't reply, no need to defend myself if I'm right, IMHO :)

Sorry wifi. My apologies.

[MarkinNH]

Is there somewhere on the "User CP" I can filter this?
I've never filtered out anyone, nor do I want to, but I'd really rather read things applying to the topic. When I get insulted, I just don't reply, no need to defend myself if I'm right, IMHO :)

In your User CP, under the Settings / Options, click on "Edit Ignore List"

[Pineedles]

Back on topic. I was dissapointed that the Gov. didn't pardon Ward for Christmas. Is there any progress with this?

[Irish mist]

Back on topic. I was dissapointed that the Gov. didn't pardon Ward for Christmas. Is there any progress with this?

Pineedles I don't think the governor of NH can issue a pardon without a vote of the 5 member EXC, but I could be wrong ? Anyone know for sure ?

[Slickcraft]

There is a mandated process which includes obtaining the advice of the Governor's Council.
Pardons; Commutations; and Reprieves
Section 4:21
4:21 Petitions for Pardon or Commutation of Sentence. – On all petitions to the governor and council for pardon or commutation of sentence written notice thereof shall be given to the state's counsel, and such notice to others as the governor may direct; and the prosecuting officer may be required to furnish a concise statement of the case as proved at the trial and any other facts bearing on the propriety of granting the petition.
Source. GS 18:3. GL 19:3. PS 20:3. PL 19:4. RL 27:5.
Section 4:22
4:22 Commissioner of Corrections to Report on. – In all cases where the petition is for the pardon of a person serving a sentence in the state prison, the commissioner of corrections shall make a report upon the petition before it is referred to the council.
Source. 1931, 117:1. RL 27:9.
Section 4:23
4:25 Conditional Pardons. – The governor, with the advice of the council, may, upon petition of a prisoner, grant him a pardon subject to such conditions as the governor considers proper, but a prisoner so pardoned shall, during the unexpired term of his sentence, violate no law, and he shall be in the custody of the state parole officer. The governor may issue his warrant to all proper officers to carry such pardon into effect and such warrant shall be obeyed and executed instead of the sentence originally imposed.
Source. 1931, 117:1. RL 27:8.
Section 4:26
4:26 Breach of Condition. – If a prisoner violates any of the conditions of his pardon, the warden, superintendent, or keeper of the institution in which the prisoner was confined shall forthwith cause him to be arrested and shall give written notice to the governor and council of such arrest.
Source. 1931, 117:1. RL 27:10.
Section 4:27
4:27 Procedure After Arrest. – The prisoner so arrested shall be returned forthwith to the institution from which he was released, and there confined for the unexpired term of his sentence unless the governor, with the advice of the council, after a hearing at the prisoner's request, shall otherwise order.
Source. 1931, 117:1. RL 27:11.

[songkrai]

[QUOTE=XCR-700;146653]

I would argue that its not flawed at all, just used in the wrong places!

QUOTE]

So I guess some want this both ways. Mandatory sentencing but let the judge have discretion in sentencing.

An oxymoron interpretation of the laws.

[Heaven]

[QUOTE=XCR-700;146653]

I would argue that its not flawed at all, just used in the wrong places!

QUOTE]

So I guess some want this both ways. Mandatory sentencing but let the judge have discretion in sentencing.

An oxymoron interpretation of the laws.
Maybe mandatory sentencing with any deviation being approved by a panel of judges or arbitrators.

[songkrai]

"Maybe mandatory sentencing with any deviation being approved by a panel of judges or arbitrators."

A valid suggestion.

But another layer of government. Most today are seeking less government.

And if this was an option then all would appeal to this panel slowing down the legal process. And making it more costly in a day when all governments (except this town) are running a large deficit.

I go back to my original statment. Mandatory sentencing is flawed. This case is proof.

If the judge had discretion then this person probably would not be where he is. The judge had to go by the statutes as written by the General Court.

[Heaven]

I don't know the reason mandatory sentencing was implemented but I am sure it wasn't a whim, so there must be significant reason. The arbitration would only be necessary IF the original judge chose to reduce the sentence below the mandatory. I don't think that would happen a lot. Maybe each judge could have a lifetime limit : /

. . . p.s., there isn't anything on earth that isn't "flawed" ; )

[Yosemite Sam]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who owns a firearm would do what the article in todays LDS said they did...and it was Ward Bird in 2002.
Thank God that no one was killed when this happened!

Here is part of the article and you can read the rest of it Here (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2010/12/29L.pdf):

It was on June 15, 2002 — a Bike Week Saturday around 6 p.m. — when Moultonborough Cpl. James Fogarty got a report of shots being fired into a home. Daniel King of Maspeth, N.Y. andtwo of his friends from Pennsylvania were watching television in a rented cottage at 84 Langdorf Street in the Suisseville section of Moultonborough. All three told Fogarty they heard seven gunshots, then silence, then five more. King told Fogarty that at least one bullet had entered the cottage. While Fogarty took pictures of the bullet hole in the back window, searched for and finally found the .30 caliber slug in the closet, other officers fanned out and began searching for the source of the bullet. About 600 yards and two streets away, police found a “large gathering” at 51 Sandorf St. As the three officers began asking questions and searching the area for spent shell casings, Fogarty noticed one party goer was a little more interested than were the others. “Please, let me know what you find out. I’m interested to see what happened,” Fogarty recalled Ward Bird saying before he left the scene in his white flatbed pickup. Moultonborough Sgt. Shawn Varney also responded to the area and was the incident supervisor. His statement said he learned from the other officers there was a “large party” on nearby Sandorf Street but everyone had denied any involvement, telling police they thought “someone was lighting off fireworks.” One of the officers also told Varney that all the guns held by the party goers had been checked, including a .25 caliber pistol owned by Bird, and none appeared to have been recently fired. In his report, Varney said the party host’s “body language and tone of voice indicated to me that he knew more than he was saying.” Varney report also said police didn’t find any shell casings. He suggested Fogarty “attempt to track [Bird] down” but said Fogarty checked Bird’s home and he wasn’t there. The next day Varney got a call from the N.H. State Police dispatcher requesting he go to Bird’s house to discuss the shooting with him. While one of his patrol officers was already interviewing Bird, Varney said Bird “was visibly upset” and had wanted to speak to a supervisor. “He advised me that he was the one who shot the firearm in Suissevale last night,” Varney wrote. “He advised me he felt really bad about the incident and apologized many times.” Varney said Bird told him he was “intoxicated” and he had been shooting into a tree stump across the street from the house with the party. He told Varney he had no knowledge there were houses beyond the stump and later came to the police station and voluntarily surrendered an AMT Automag III .30 carbine with eight rounds and two clips. Bird was charged with unauthorized use of a firearm, showed police the stump with nine bullets lodged in it and said he was the only one who did any shooting. He was charged with the unauthorized use of a firearm, which was negotiated down to a violation. The owner of the house with the bullet hole in the window was content to have the window replaced and “to leave it at that.” Bird paid a fine and the incident was largely forgotten.

[secondcurve]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who owns a firearm would do what the article in todays LDS said they did...and it was Ward Bird in 2002.
Thank God that no one was killed when this happened!

Here is part of the article and you can read the rest of it Here (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2010/12/29L.pdf):

It was on June 15, 2002 — a Bike Week Saturday around 6 p.m. — when Moultonborough Cpl. James Fogarty got a report of shots being fired into a home. Daniel King of Maspeth, N.Y. andtwo of his friends from Pennsylvania were watching television in a rented cottage at 84 Langdorf Street in the Suisseville section of Moultonborough. All three told Fogarty they heard seven gunshots, then silence, then five more. King told Fogarty that at least one bullet had entered the cottage. While Fogarty took pictures of the bullet hole in the back window, searched for and finally found the .30 caliber slug in the closet, other officers fanned out and began searching for the source of the bullet. About 600 yards and two streets away, police found a “large gathering” at 51 Sandorf St. As the three officers began asking questions and searching the area for spent shell casings, Fogarty noticed one party goer was a little more interested than were the others. “Please, let me know what you find out. I’m interested to see what happened,” Fogarty recalled Ward Bird saying before he left the scene in his white flatbed pickup. Moultonborough Sgt. Shawn Varney also responded to the area and was the incident supervisor. His statement said he learned from the other officers there was a “large party” on nearby Sandorf Street but everyone had denied any involvement, telling police they thought “someone was lighting off fireworks.” One of the officers also told Varney that all the guns held by the party goers had been checked, including a .25 caliber pistol owned by Bird, and none appeared to have been recently fired. In his report, Varney said the party host’s “body language and tone of voice indicated to me that he knew more than he was saying.” Varney report also said police didn’t find any shell casings. He suggested Fogarty “attempt to track [Bird] down” but said Fogarty checked Bird’s home and he wasn’t there. The next day Varney got a call from the N.H. State Police dispatcher requesting he go to Bird’s house to discuss the shooting with him. While one of his patrol officers was already interviewing Bird, Varney said Bird “was visibly upset” and had wanted to speak to a supervisor. “He advised me that he was the one who shot the firearm in Suissevale last night,” Varney wrote. “He advised me he felt really bad about the incident and apologized many times.” Varney said Bird told him he was “intoxicated” and he had been shooting into a tree stump across the street from the house with the party. He told Varney he had no knowledge there were houses beyond the stump and later came to the police station and voluntarily surrendered an AMT Automag III .30 carbine with eight rounds and two clips. Bird was charged with unauthorized use of a firearm, showed police the stump with nine bullets lodged in it and said he was the only one who did any shooting. He was charged with the unauthorized use of a firearm, which was negotiated down to a violation. The owner of the house with the bullet hole in the window was content to have the window replaced and “to leave it at that.” Bird paid a fine and the incident was largely forgotten.

Very interesting. Maybe the punishment does fit the crime after all? It is hard to say without all the facts, but the more I hear about Ward Bird the more it is apparent he isn't the angel some suggest he is.

[ApS]

He told Varney he had no knowledge there were houses beyond the stump and later came to the police station and voluntarily surrendered an AMT Automag III .30 carbine with eight rounds and two clips.
OMC—which became TDE—which became AMT—which became IAI (among other names) went out of business around 2003, but is still manufactured today under license.

The "carbine" mentioned above isn't the famous "long-gun" of WW2, but a pistol chambered for the 30-Carbine cartridge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/MY_AUTOMAG_III.JPG/300px-MY_AUTOMAG_III.JPG

[John A. Birdsall]

I have not gone back and reread the newspaper article, but I think I read that Harris was going around the house looking in windows. If that was the case, then would not Ward think that perhaps she was casing out the place to rob it, and then pulled his gun?

Another part, was there ammo in the gun? He wanted her off his property so he took an empty gun and waved it in the air. See what I got, now get off my property.

By the way I hope you all have a Happy, Safe, and Healthy New Year, now look for Ice OUT

[SIKSUKR]

Very interesting.It seemed there had to be more to this than just a man innocently defending his property.:confused:

[Gearhead]

I've seen enough. Excuse me, I just passed judgement.

[Argie's Wife]

...If Ward hadn't come forward to confess back in 2002, - eight years ago - he probably would have gotten off, as when the officer at the scene checked the guns, it didn't appear that any had been recently fired. It sounds to me like Ward fully cooperated with the police in that incident, including admitting he was intoxicated.

Did he do the right thing? No. Firing the gun in an area like that was highly irresponsible - no doubt about it. However, he owned up to the crime, paid the price. It sounds like he could have played it cool and let it slide. After all, what police dept is going to chase down a complaint like that on Bike Week? (They'd have bigger fish to fry, I'd think...)

When Ward had the encounter he had with Harris he wasn't intoxicated (by any records I've read so far), he didn't fire the gun, and we don't know if it was loaded, even. It sounds to me like he cooperated with police.

I'd wager that in the next couple of days you're gonna see some letters to the editor flyin' in the LaDaSun in rebuttal to the article.

[Heaven]

Target shooting while drinking in a location that was not familiar? It does make one question his judgement. How many other times was his judgement questionable but there were no consequences, out of sheer luck? I guess we'll never know.

[ApS]

...If Ward hadn't come forward to confess back in 2002, - eight years ago - he probably would have gotten off, as when the officer at the scene checked the guns, it didn't appear that any had been recently fired. It sounds to me like Ward fully cooperated with the police in that incident
Not exactly. :rolleye2:

He kept "mum" about the 30-caliber shooting and showed the police his 25-caliber pistol—allowing the police to report that his 25-caliber pistol "wasn't fired recently".

[Shreddy]

If her past is irrelevant to this case, what makes his past an integral part of this case? What's so different? :confused:

[tis]

If her past is irrelevant to this case, what makes his past an integral part of this case? What's so different? :confused:

Nothing is different. His past is irrelevant too.

[songkrai]

Listen clearly. I think he should be home right now. I think from day one all the authorities mishandled this case.

But I have read the papers today. 12/30/2010. Two papers two articles.

These newspaper articles present information that will make it extremely difficult for the pardon.

Morally he should receive the pardon. Politically, it will be very difficult for any polictician to grant that pardon - after reading those newspaper articles.

[nvtngtxpyr]

Listen clearly. I think he should be home right now. I think from day one all the authorities mishandled this case.

But I have read the papers today. 12/30/2010. Two papers two articles.



Links please?

[songkrai]

There are no links.

Print version. At store.

[RailroadJoe]

theUnionleader.com under recent news

[Argie's Wife]

theUnionleader.com under recent news

It appears to be a reprint of the article that ran in the LaDaSun yesterday: http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/story/ward-bird-and-bullet-ridden-stump

[Winnisquamguy]

How many other times was his judgement questionable but there were no consequences, out of sheer luck? I guess we'll never know.
My thoughts exactly, leave him right where he is after all these facts have come out. He deserves what he got, he is a hothead!!

[Heaven]

So in the unlikely event of a pardon, I sure hope Ward Bird would be restricted from owning or having guns.

[lawn psycho]

So in the unlikely event of a pardon, I sure hope Ward Bird would be restricted from owning or having guns.

If his felony conviction is left in place, he won't be able to have guns. Federal law.

I see the two cases as entirely different. Unfortunately people want to abide by the constitution only when it's convienient.

[gtagrip]

Instead of names, they should post the salary and fringe benefit cost of each member of the police department. As long as people check 'yes' at the ballot box on your town budget this is how it goes.

In Old Orchard Beach, there was a study done that showed if they got rid of all the businesses that cause the need for large police and fire departments that the tax bill to residents would go down substaintially.

I have just started reading the last page of this thread and was wondering is it really necessary for M'boro to have 12 full-time police officers? I live in a Southern NH town of about 35,000 - 40,000 and me thinks that there maybe that many full-time officers in this town. Not absolutely sure of the number, but bet it's close. :confused:

[lawn psycho]

I have just started reading the last page of this thread and was wondering is it really necessary for M'boro to have 12 full-time police officers? I live in a Southern NH town of about 35,000 - 40,000 and me thinks that there maybe that many full-time officers in this town. Not absolutely sure of the number, but bet it's close. :confused:

I'll give my opinion. 12 officers for a small New England town that goes to sleep in the winter is a not a small expense. If voters approve it, they best not complain about the mil rate as it will fall on deaf ears.

[NoBozo]

Some people tend to Mellow as they get older. Maybe Ward has mellowed since the 2002 incident. My guess is he has.

However, if he stays in jail, his mellowing might reverse itself and he WILL become bitter over the experience. I would. :look: NB

[Heaven]

The article, which I hope quotes the court documents, states that Ward's statement after the incident was that he yelled and swore at the woman, and then he took his gun out of the holster to check the safety as he planned to enter the house.

So to shorten the story, by admission he was was yelling and swearing and had the gun in his hand. That would be enough for me to consider him to have been provocatively threatening to an unarmed older lady.

I believe the jury probably came to correct decision based on what was presented to them.

I don't know how I feel about supporting Ward in jail for three years, I kind of think that taking guns out of his life (for the rest of his life) would be a suitable punishment, so perhaps I have an issue with mandatory sentencing.

Unlike the jury we know of the previous incident, and that previous incident tends to support a view that Ward does not have the best of judgement when it comes to guns.

I agree that previous history of both the people did not play a part in the trial, but his previous history was with guns capable of killing others, and her's isn't (although her's IS bad bad bad enough).

Whatever measuring stick you use his former history has to be seen as more compelling.

[Heaven]

I had to go back and read this part of the Globe article below quoting Ward Bird

“The gun rights and property rights are important — this touches on that, to be sure,’’ Bird said in a phone interview. “But it’s about the truth. It’s about how someone can make a claim against you and the powers that be can take it at face value when she is a proven liar. This could happen to anybody, not just me. And people are awakening to that.’’

So, how does that sound in light of the 2002 incident. Sure, he went home and thought about it then went to the station to confess. But he lied about it first and had to think about whether to let the lie stand, and he then makes the accusation above? Does he have a grasp on his own actions?

[MarkinNH]

:rolleye2:The article, which I hope quotes the court documents, states that Ward's statement after the incident was that he yelled and swore at the woman, and then he took his gun out of the holster to check the safety as he planned to enter the house.

So to shorten the story, by admission he was was yelling and swearing and had the gun in his hand. That would be enough for me to consider him to have been provocatively threatening to an unarmed older lady.

I believe the jury probably came to correct decision based on what was presented to them.

I don't know how I feel about supporting Ward in jail for three years, I kind of think that taking guns out of his life (for the rest of his life) would be a suitable punishment, so perhaps I have an issue with mandatory sentencing.

Unlike the jury we know of the previous incident, and that previous incident tends to support a view that Ward does not have the best of judgment when it comes to guns.

I agree that previous history of both the people did not play a part in the trial, but his previous history was with guns capable of killing others, and her's isn't (although her's IS bad bad bad enough).

Whatever measuring stick you use his former history has to be seen as more compelling.

Since when do the newspapers ever really got all their facts straight in any article they publish ? These are the same newspapers that have a man with a belly full of stitchs from major surgury, jumping off the porch. Yup, those newspapers are Real Believable and trustworthy ! :rolleye2:

The incident from Wards past history was a bonehead move which, knowing Ward I suspect he regrets, This bonehead move was made while he was under the influence of to much alcohol. Nobody ! under the influence of alcohol is capable of using proper judgment.
Just to make it clear to some. I do not condone that "bonehead move". You don't mix alcohol and firearms for any reason EVER.

[Merrymeeting]

:rolleye2:

The incident from Wards past history was a bonehead move which, knowing Ward I suspect he regrets, This bonehead move was made while he was under the influence of to much alcohol. Nobody ! under the influence of alcohol is capable of using proper judgment.
Just to make it clear to some. I do not condone that "bonehead move". You don't mix alcohol and firearms for any reason EVER.

As stated earlier, I don't have a horse in this race. But the fact that, with clearer head, he reconsidered and confessed when he didn't need to do so tells me something about his character.

Still was bonehead, and I would agree it might be time to re-evaluate his gun permits. But the core of the person seems to not be an issue.

[ApS]

As stated earlier, I don't have a horse in this race...
1) :eek2: Perhaps because you don't live within range (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?rls=GGLD,GGLD%3A2005-04,GGLD%3Aen&hl=en&q=cache:xLKAV2TuT94J:http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/May01.htm+%2230-carbine%22,+-30-30,+%22one-mile%22&ct=clnk) of a certain 30-caliber, bullet-riddled, stump (http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/story/ward-bird-and-bullet-ridden-stump)? :rolleye2:

>>> YIKES! :eek: <<<

2) Come to think of it, today's newspapers will be featuring their annual warnings about filling tonight's skies with "hot lead" (http://miami.cbslocal.com/2010/12/30/leaders-ask-for-no-celebratory-gunfire-on-new-year%E2%80%99s-eve/) to bring in the New Year! :eek2:


:rolleye1:

[Tank151]

This guy is a danger to the community. Apparently he's had other issues involving guns and they should be taken away from him as a person who can't handle responsibility.

[wuwu]

All I can say is..I was there at the time of "target practicing" in 2008. That reporter did not even get the address correct! It was on Wintersport..and it wasn't a "loud" party..and if truth be known..it was NOT Ward who was shooting the gun! He took the blame..All we are asking is ..why? Why put this man in jail? This is clearly a he said she said. There were NO witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3dI8kR0
great song!

[Rusty]

All I can say is..I was there at the time of "target practicing" in 2008. That reporter did not even get the address correct! It was on Wintersport..and it wasn't a "loud" party..and if truth be known..it was NOT Ward who was shooting the gun! He took the blame..All we are asking is ..why? Why put this man in jail? This is clearly a he said she said. There were NO witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3dI8kR0
great song!

He did some "target practicing" in 2008. Did he get in trouble for that one also?

If you know that "He took the blame" then why don't you step up to the plate and tell the police who really did it. That might help Mr. Bird when it comes time for reviewing his pardon request.

[Heaven]

Oh no, so Ward took the blame for someone else who had really bad judgement and now that person is not accountable (and is walking around with guns?). Why is that a good thing? Do two bad judgments make a good judgement? I don't think so. (isn't "taking the blame" a lie then? A standing lie?)

[fatlazyless]

Here's a little question that I want to throw out: What's up with Ward's nickname "Lauchy" as was printed in the LaDaSun, the other day? Anyone know where he got that nickname which is supposedly pronounced Locky. Now Locky sure seems like an unusual nickname? Also printed in the LaDaSun article it said something like Ward always carried his .45 Sig concealed and never went anywhere without it because he had a concealed carry permit and it was his right to do so.

Is "Lauchy" a nickname that was derived from Locky as in Lock & Load, or Locked & Loaded, or Locky & Loadied or something? Is "Lauchy" some type of a Moultonborough, way-out-in-the-country, down-a-long-dirt-road nickname for Ward because he was always locked & loaded? "Yes, Ward is always locked & loaded so one day we just decided to start calling him "Lauchy" and it stuck, plus he seems to like the name?"

.....or something like that?

[wifi]

Here's a little question that I want to throw out: What's up with Ward's nickname "Lauchy" as was printed in the LaDaSun, the other day? Anyone know where he got that nickname which is supposedly pronounced Locky. Now Locky sure seems like an unusual nickname? Also printed in the LaDaSun article it said something like Ward always carried his .45 Sig concealed and never went anywhere without it because he had a concealed carry permit and it was his right to do so.

Is "Lauchy" a nickname that was derived from Locky as in Lock & Load, or Locked & Loaded, or Locky & Loadied or something? Is "Lauchy" some type of a Moultonborough, way-out-in-the-country, down-a-long-dirt-road nickname for Ward because he was always locked & loaded? "Yes, Ward is always locked & loaded so one day we just decided to start calling him "Lauchy" and it stuck, plus he seems to like the name?"

.....or something like that?

More meaningless speculation & character assassination out of you .... :(

[AB_Monterey]

hoooooookay! :rolleye1:

and with that, I believe we've crossed the line over into "absurd", where there's a Mickey Ds on every corner.

[Great Northern Cleaning]

If fatlazyless is trying to be witty in his incoherent posts or is he displaying early signs of dementia...I would think the moderators would edit some of his posts.

Back on topic...Just want to throw a Hello out to Ward And Ginny....you are in many many peoples thoughts and prayers everyday......

Interlakes Class of '80

[MarkinNH]

Here's a little question that I want to throw out: What's up with Ward's nickname "Lauchy" as was printed in the LaDaSun, the other day? Anyone know where he got that nickname which is supposedly pronounced Locky. Now Locky sure seems like an unusual nickname? Also printed in the LaDaSun article it said something like Ward always carried his .45 Sig concealed and never went anywhere without it because he had a concealed carry permit and it was his right to do so.

Is "Lauchy" a nickname that was derived from Locky as in Lock & Load, or Locked & Loaded, or Locky & Loadied or something? Is "Lauchy" some type of a Moultonborough, way-out-in-the-country, down-a-long-dirt-road nickname for Ward because he was always locked & loaded? "Yes, Ward is always locked & loaded so one day we just decided to start calling him "Lauchy" and it stuck, plus he seems to like the name?"

.....or something like that?

I don't answer your question because I think you might actually care what the real answer is, but there might be some decent people reading this who do care. Ward got the nickname handed down to him from a relative. I don't recall if it was a Great Grandfather or a Great Uncle.
I know it isn't as colorful or degrading as your sarcastic speculation but is does have much more honor and meaning than I suspect your capable of understanding.

[Argie's Wife]

All I can say is..I was there at the time of "target practicing" in 2008. That reporter did not even get the address correct! It was on Wintersport..and it wasn't a "loud" party..and if truth be known..it was NOT Ward who was shooting the gun! He took the blame..All we are asking is ..why? Why put this man in jail? This is clearly a he said she said. There were NO witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3dI8kR0
great song!

wuwu - Has anyone who was there at the incident, like yourself, considered writing a rebuttal to that story? You're not the only person I know who's said the story in the LaDaSun was bogus.

[wuwu]

Here's a little question that I want to throw out: What's up with Ward's nickname "Lauchy" as was printed in the LaDaSun, the other day? Anyone know where he got that nickname which is supposedly pronounced Locky. Now Locky sure seems like an unusual nickname? Also printed in the LaDaSun article it said something like Ward always carried his .45 Sig concealed and never went anywhere without it because he had a concealed carry permit and it was his right to do so.

Is "Lauchy" a nickname that was derived from Locky as in Lock & Load, or Locked & Loaded, or Locky & Loadied or something? Is "Lauchy" some type of a Moultonborough, way-out-in-the-country, down-a-long-dirt-road nickname for Ward because he was always locked & loaded? "Yes, Ward is always locked & loaded so one day we just decided to start calling him "Lauchy" and it stuck, plus he seems to like the name?"

.....or something like that?

Does anyone one know how fatlazyless got their nickname? Hmm..Fat..Lazy...Less, but then I guess this fits!:laugh:

[brk-lnt]

Does anyone one know how fatlazyless got their nickname? Hmm..Fat..Lazy...Less, but then I guess this fits!:laugh:

Based on previous posts when people discussed their handles here, he said he used to troll under the moniker "Lean Mean Less", and then changed it on a whim here.

[lawn psycho]

Based on previous posts when people discussed their handles here, he said he used to troll under the moniker "Lean Mean Less", and then changed it on a whim here.

If you dig a little on the forum you'll find his name isn't Less either:)

Every forum needs its resident class clown.

[Rusty]

Here's a little question that I want to throw out: What's up with Ward's nickname "Lauchy" as was printed in the LaDaSun, the other day? Anyone know where he got that nickname which is supposedly pronounced Locky. Now Locky sure seems like an unusual nickname? Also printed in the LaDaSun article it said something like Ward always carried his .45 Sig concealed and never went anywhere without it because he had a concealed carry permit and it was his right to do so.

Is "Lauchy" a nickname that was derived from Locky as in Lock & Load, or Locked & Loaded, or Locky & Loadied or something? Is "Lauchy" some type of a Moultonborough, way-out-in-the-country, down-a-long-dirt-road nickname for Ward because he was always locked & loaded? "Yes, Ward is always locked & loaded so one day we just decided to start calling him "Lauchy" and it stuck, plus he seems to like the name?"

.....or something like that?

"Lauchy"????

Maybe something like this (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=e10e1c2d-2329-47e2-894b-68aa22264005&headline='Free+Ward+Bird'+vigil+planned+on+Christm as+Eve):"We pray that Lauchie (Bird's nickname) can celebrate Christmas with the family, as we've done together all of our lives," said Bird's sister, Melissa Manville of Center Harbor. "But if he can't be with us, we will be with him in spirit."

Or maybe something like this (http://freewardbird.org/page/6/): "Ward is my brother-in-law, and I’ve observed him closely, in all manner of situations, for the past 25 years. He is known to family and friends as “Lauchie” (pronounced “Locky”), so please allow me to continue this letter using that name."

[fatlazyless]

hello everybody,

In thinking about carrying a handgun that is totally concealed from view, here's a couple thoughts off the top of my head.

- It carries with it the very big responsibility of having a very potent weapon, and a .45 Sig is a very powerful weapon.

- Carrying concealed will strongly tend to empower the person with a feeling of increased security or a feeling of superiority because he probably thinks that another individual does NOT have a concealed weapon while at the same time he does.

How can this influence his actions? It could make him more aggressive knowing that he can always rely on his handgun and instead of tending toward withdrawing from a confrontation, it encourages more aggressive actions. So, carrying concealed can aggravate a situation that otherwise would have been solved by speaking in a way to get along with someone as opposed to confronting them. This is known as "posturing" when your attitude effects you to assume a certain posture in your mindset.

For every situation where a concealed handgun solves a security problem, there's probably three situations where it makes the situation worse because people are less likely to back down or to retreat and just call and explain the situation to the police down at 911.

So, carrying concealed comes with a big responsibility and a big need to act responsibly so maybe a carry permit should require a training course and a test. After all, driving a car or piloting a boat both require a state training course and a state test so why not for handguns too?

If Ward had had to make the effort to attend a training course and then pass a test, wouldn't he probably be less likely to be all locked up with his current situation? Just my two cents ..........

[MarkinNH]

hello everybody,

In thinking about carrying a handgun that is totally concealed from view, here's a couple thoughts off the top of my head.

- It carries with it the very big responsibility of having a very potent weapon, and a .45 Sig is a very powerful weapon.

- Carrying concealed will strongly tend to empower the person with a feeling of increased security or a feeling of superiority because he probably thinks that another individual does NOT have a concealed weapon while at the same time he does.

How can this influence his actions? It could make him more aggressive knowing that he can always rely on his handgun and instead of tending toward withdrawing from a confrontation, it encourages more aggressive actions. So, carrying concealed can aggravate a situation that otherwise would have been solved by speaking in a way to get along with someone as opposed to confronting them. This is known as "posturing" when your attitude effects you to assume a certain posture in your mindset.

For every situation where a concealed handgun solves a security problem, there's probably three situations where it makes the situation worse because people are less likely to back down or to retreat and just call and explain the situation to the police down at 911.

So, carrying concealed comes with a big responsibility and a big need to act responsibly so maybe a carry permit should require a training course and a test. After all, driving a car or piloting a boat both require a state training course and a state test so why not for handguns too?

If Ward had had to make the effort to attend a training course and then pass a test, wouldn't he probably be less likely to be all locked up with his current situation? Just my two cents ..........

Your "two cents" fell about $10.00 short of being worth anything !

[tummyman]

One solution to some comments by "fatlazyless" or others with off base or off target/thread comments is to ignore their postings. Most of the time, they are subliminally egging people on to respond. Responding just feeds their appetite to comment further. Just one persons opinion....

[brk-lnt]

One solution to some comments by "fatlazyless" or others with off base or off target/thread comments is to ignore their postings. Most of the time, they are subliminally egging people on to respond. Responding just feeds their appetite to comment further. Just one persons opinion....

Agreed. FLL is on my ignore filter now.

[Pineedles]

brk-Int,

Off topic, but I've been meaning to ask you about your avatar. Is that a cap or a pancake on the bunny's head?:laugh:

[fatlazyless]

Hey Rattle Island-Windy Side, while I cannot please everyone with my comments, at least it's nice to know that you are thinking about them.:rolleye2:

[MarkinNH]

Hey Rattle Island-Windy Side, while I cannot please everyone with my comments, at least it's nice to know that you are thinking about them.:rolleye2:

You could please EVERYONE very easily with your comments. Don't Make Any !!!

[Pineedles]

pancake.


and I bet that bunny is smarter than the average anti-gun loon?

:D

For the record, I have never talked to a loon about whether they were anti-gun or not. Considering you can't hunt them, I'm guessing they wouldn't really care.:laugh:

[Rusty]

For the record, I have never talked to a loon about whether they were anti-gun or not. Considering you can't hunt them, I'm guessing they wouldn't really care.:laugh:

Good one Pineedles! :laugh:

[nvtngtxpyr]

You could please EVERYONE very easily with your comments. Don't Make Any !!!

Excellent suggestion, but since he has almost twice as many posts as the number of days that he's been a member of this forum, it's likely that he doesn't have a life away from the Internet.

[fatlazyless]

that he doesn't have a life away from the Internet.
...you got that one right....just a forum nitwit and all-around blabber mouth here! :D Actually, I have caught the flu bug and have been flu-ed out for the last nine days caughing up yellow phlegm....but....whatever ... :(...this forum is good therapy for self-medicating to lose the flu.... !:banana:

[NoBozo]

...you got that one right....just a forum nitwit and all-around blabber mouth here! :D Actually, I have caught the flu bug and have been flu-ed out for the last nine days caughing up yellow phlegm....but....whatever ... :(...this forum is good therapy for self-medicating to lose the flu.... !:banana:

If the Phlegm starts to look Green, you could try to Quit Smoking. I had that problem over 40 years ago and the Doctor told me if I quit, things would get better. That old Fart didn't think I could do it..:look: I showed him. :D

Haven't had a cigarette since. When you're coughing up green phlegm, cigarettes, just make your mouth taste like a seagull slept in it anyhow. :D NB

[Seeker]

WMUR has an interview with Ward on the 6 o'clock news tonight.

[Heaven]

For those of us without TV, please post details

[Pineedles]

BTW, if your sick of the dancing banana, hit the Esc button on your keyboard and it will stop, along with all moving avatars.

[Rusty]

For those of us without TV, please post details

It's on WMUR's website: http://www.wmur.com/news/26393373/detail.html

[ApS]

At this point we know you are uneducated about, and are terrified of, firearms....but your analysis has once again pushed into the just plain WACKY range!!!....
1) While it might seem like a "reach" to have a term for this fear, a term does exist: "hoplophobia". (Pronounced "HOP-li-fobia".)

Wikipedia (http://www.gunlaws.com/GunHate.htm): Fear of weaponry. (Expressed elsewhere (http://www.gunlaws.com/GunHate.htm)).

2) The NH Legislature made new law (http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/232606/new-majoritys-first-action-guns-welcome) two days ago that would recycle FLL's fears.
—Concord Monitor

[riverat]

"The thing about this is I've told the truth," Bird told News 9 from jail. "And if anything else, it's a life lesson for my kids and other kids. There's no point in lying about anything. And if I paid for this, for telling the truth, so be it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_g_OPkR6w

[fatlazyless]

Here's a letter to the editor from today's January 7 Laconia Daily Sun that is very expressive, and I thought it would add another opinion to this thread. Agree or disagree with her sentiments, it's an interesting letter, don't you think!
............

"If Ward Bird is pardoned I'm going to buy a gun and learn to use it."

To the editor,

If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her, she could have pulled her weapon out and been justified in shooting him dead. She would have been within her God-given rights to defend her life.

If Ward Bird obtains a pardon for this crime, I, as a 71 year old woman, am going to feel free to buy a hand gun, learn how to use it well, carry it upon my person at all time and when one of these gun-nuts aims a gun at me, then I will feel free to use it. Also, if someone comes on my property that I do not feel was invited, then I will feel that I have the right to pull a gun and order them from my property.

Is this really the kind of environment that we want here in New Hampshire? Ward Bird and his followers make me sick; they are a bunch of narcissistic, hot-headed individuals who feel that they own this state and get away with anything that they want to, And our crooked, it's who you know society allows them to continue to do just that.

Carolyn Pillsbury,
Meredith
..............

From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?

[nvtngtxpyr]

If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her...

Say what???

I haven't seen anything that indicated that Ward Bird pointed the pistol at Christine Harris.

Looks like there's more than one Loon in Meredith.

[Rusty]

I’ll say one thing about “Carolyn Pillsbury” she expressed more emotion than what Ward Bird did during his interview with WMUR TV.

Below is what I understand Ward Bird said during the interview:

“I had my firearm behind my back in my belt, I pulled it out and removed the magazine, made sure the chamber was clear, made sure it was safe, and then went into his house to call the police.”
Then the reporter said that Bird checks his gun out of habit before entering his home.

Why would Mr. Bird unload his firearm at this time? Because it is a habit? Well to me habits go out the window when you are that upset. He would have been better off to just say I had a firearm but I never touched it during the time Harris was on my property. Also why unload your firearm each time you enter your home? I don’t! IMHO it defeats the purpose of carry one in the first place.

[MarkinNH]

Here's a letter to the editor from today's January 7 Laconia Daily Sun that is very expressive, and I thought it would add another opinion to this thread. Agree or disagree with her sentiments, it's an interesting letter, don't you think!
............

"If Ward Bird is pardoned I'm going to buy a gun and learn to use it."

To the editor,

If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her, she could have pulled her weapon out and been justified in shooting him dead. She would have been within her God-given rights to defend her life.

If Ward Bird obtains a pardon for this crime, I, as a 71 year old woman, am going to feel free to buy a hand gun, learn how to use it well, carry it upon my person at all time and when one of these gun-nuts aims a gun at me, then I will feel free to use it. Also, if someone comes on my property that I do not feel was invited, then I will feel that I have the right to pull a gun and order them from my property.

Is this really the kind of environment that we want here in New Hampshire? Ward Bird and his followers make me sick; they are a bunch of narcissistic, hot-headed individuals who feel that they own this state and get away with anything that they want to, And our crooked, it's who you know society allows them to continue to do just that.

Carolyn Pillsbury,
Meredith
..............

From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?

It Adds absolutly nothing worth while to the thread and neither do you.
It isn't even interesting. Just another stupid statement made by another anti gun liberal and printed by another newspaper that isn't capable or interested in printing true facts.

[Rusty]

From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?

You are right FLL and here she is doing some target practicing:

http://jeanieforrester.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Jeanie-and-Pink-Gun.jpg

[fatlazyless]

Nice photo.....and the pink shirt & gun colors go real nice together.

Here's another comment from the Dept of Useful Information. Carrying a handgun carries with it a very big responsibility because once you pull that trigger you cannot put the bullet back into the gun which is probably why the Taser was invented and has become so popular for law enforcement.

[wifi]

Along the same vain, don't swing your broomstick too hard either, it will not look the same afterwards :)

[Rusty]

Nice photo.....and the pink shirt & gun colors go real nice together.

Here's another comment from the Dept of Useful Information. Carrying a handgun carries with it a very big responsibility because once you pull that trigger you cannot put the bullet back into the gun which is probably why the Taser was invented and has become so popular for law enforcement.

Dept of Useful Information. DUI http://www.myemoticons.com/images/emotions/thinking/hmm-2.gif

Hey FLL,
Someone is registering today with a user name almost like yours. fatnlazyless
instead of fatlazyless. Why would someone do that??

Here it is:

http://localhostr.com/file/3g3eKU0/FLL.JPG

[NoBozo]

WARNING WARNING: RUSTY has Hacked into the forum software. How else would he have access to such info otherwise... :look: NB

[Rusty]

WARNING WARNING: RUSTY has Hacked into the forum software. How else would he have access to such info otherwise... :look: NB

You can see this information if you go to "Who's Online". If someone is registering it will appear there.

[Pineedles]

Don is pretty savy about computer stuff. Hacking into his baby is pretty tough.

[NoBozo]

RUSTY is Pretty Knowledgeable for a Newbie..don't ya think...? TOTALLY. Just sayin......:D :D NB

[Pineedles]

I don't know. My money is on Don.

[Rusty]

RUSTY is Pretty Knowledgeable for a Newbie..don't ya think...? TOTALLY. Just sayin......:D :D NB

I found a lot of good information about how to get around this forum by doing the following:

1. Clicked on “FAQ”
2. Clicked on “Board FAQ”.
3. Clicked on “General Usage”.
4. Looked at “General Forum Usage”
5. Clicked on “Forums, Threads and Posts”.

After clicking on “Forums, Threads and Posts” a screen comes up with some real good information that helps you understand how this forum works.

Didn’t everyone do that before using this forum?

[Lucky1]

I cannot understand this case at all. For the life of me I do not know why taking out a gun would get you a three year sentence if you did not threaten to use it against an innocent person. I must be getting too old for some of this nonsense.

I don't have a gun and don't want one and feel that accidents happen in homes where they are kept. However THREE YEARS FOR TAKING A GUN OUT TO TALK TO A TRESPASSER SOUNDS CRAZY. WHY NOT GO AFTER THE REAL CRIMINALS?" Let Ward out! Overturn the ruling or keep it in mind at the polling booths when you vote.

[sa meredith]

He cannot just be "let out". He was found guilty of a crime, by a jury of his peers.
The judge, at that point, has a law/sentencing guideline to follow. It is not open to "discretion".
Attack the law if you want to...start a petition to have the law changed.
So much has come out here..however...I realize the woman is a few sandwiches short of a picknic...but from what I have read, Ward is no stranger to confrontation...and seems to be the type to think that on his own land, he makes the laws.
Just my opinion...

[SAMIAM]

Hey..thanks for posting that, Rusty.......I followed your steps and learned something.

[fatlazyless]

"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?

[Argie's Wife]

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.

So, he's in jail for exercising his second amendment right and refusing to lie. Is that what's really going on here? I'm disgusted.

Bird did what he thought was the right thing to do. If I was in that position and felt I had done no wrong, I wouldn't take a hit either. Why should I have to plead guilty when I'm NOT? That's probably how Bird felt.

And FLL...

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.


I live in a wonderful little town; I love Alton. But yet less than one mile from my house a woman, who I consider a friend, and who also serves on the town's board of selectmen, was assaulted in her own home one evening a couple of years ago. Her house isn't in the center of town, but she's hardly "in the sticks", as I'd consider it. The person who hurt my friend has never been caught and I've watched my friend go through quite a process dealing with this crime.

Yes, Virginia, there's crime in Central NH.

Just the incident with the Mt Vernon home invasion/murder/attempted murder should tell you that a rural community does not mean guaranteed safety!

After that incident, I don't consider ANY town in NH to be Mayberry RFD, if you catch my drift.

[MarkinNH]

"Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

Well you know what they say about Opinions !! :rolleye2:

[wuwu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3dI8kR0&feature=player_embedded#!
Great song!

[Rusty]

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.



Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

[MAXUM]

"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?

YES I would.

Wow you really can't be serious.

Why would anyone agree to a plea deal if they believe they are innocent? The man believed he was and stood his ground on principal something liberals both lack and understand. Good for him, and you can bet this case is far from over.

Secondly you have no idea what you're talking about. A .45 SIG neither large nor heavy. Most of their automatics are polymer or alloy making them very light weight comparatively speaking AND are compact in size. Anyways what business is it of yours whether or not this gentleman has chosen to carry concealed or not - ESPECIALLY on his own property. That's his GOD given right to do so protected by the constitution.

Hey if you don't think it's necessary to have a gun or carry it, that's your choice I don't belittle you because you've made that decision. How dare you chastise those that do however just because in your elitist opinion you can't understand why they would.

Finally to your statement: Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

Tell that to my Dad who had some creep bust into his house high on drugs ranting like a raving lunatic in the middle of the night. He grabbed his pistol and held the guy at gun point until the cops arrived oh 15 minutes or so later after calling 911. Even the police chief admitted the outcome could have been much different had my Dad not been able to do what he did. So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?

[fatlazyless]

Better to be practical than to be "dead right," as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain and avoid a jail sentence or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail, and get to wear a bright orange outfit all day, everyday?

What would you do?

............

Ok....and with regards for the need for a handgun in central New Hampshire.....in thinking about it....having one ready-to-use within one's home seems like a much more reasonable thing to do than carry one on one's person. For many many years, the police used .38 revolvers which are much less expensive than a modern Glock or a Sig and is all that's needed for home safety use. Sure, a police officer should have a semi-automatic which is a combat weapon but there's no need for one as a home safety tool when a revolver works fine and is less complicated to use.
........

Can someone post the entire article from the Associated Press, "New Hampshire farmer is folk hero for gun right's advocates."

[MarkinNH]

So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?

Remember that FLL has his trusty and leathal "broom" I am sure that would scare any hopped up lunatic away just by it's mere presence. Besides, after 30 seconds or so, of being in the same room with FLL, I suspect ANYONE would turn and run. If he flaps his jaw in person like he does on this forum, he would even need his "broom" :rolleye2:

[MAXUM]

Better to be practical than to be "dead right,' as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail?

What would you do?

Had the founding fathers if this country applied your train of thought they never would have stood up to the crown in England. They risked their lives, fortunes and way of life to facilitate a revolution that forever changed this country. They did so based on principal, even though they faced staggering odds that it may not pan out in their favor and each and every one of them could face charges of treason and ultimately die as a result. I admire people like this that have a brass pair and will stand up to what they believe is right no matter the outcome. That's what made this country great, it's ultimate demise will be at the hands of spineless people who would prefer to avoid any kind of discomfort and in exchange choose to loose their liberties in the process.

James Madison sums it up very eloquently:

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

[Argie's Wife]

Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

The actions you describe, if done in a court of law, would have resulted in Bird racking up even more charges and would not have helped his case one bit. If you read the transcripts from the case, and especially the sentence delivered by the judge, it is obvious that even the judge has a problem with it because it is a MANDATORY minimum sentence by NH RSA. The judge agrees that Bird is guilty but has a real problem with the mandated sentence vs. what he (the judge) considers an appropriate sentence. (Remember, the real purpose of a sentence isn't just to punish for a crime; it's to separate the criminal from society for isolation and rehabilitation.)

It shouldn't have taken Bird going to jail for 3-6 years to prove the point that there's a problem with the mandatory sentence, as it allows no autonomy for the judge in the decision process.

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

But you can't wave a gun at someone who, for the past 5-10 minutes has refused to leave your property and even said "F-U" to you, without spending a minimum of 3 years in jail.

Something is waaaayyyyy outta wack here.

[lawn psycho]

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

And don't forget, FIREWORKS:patriot::banana::banana::banana:

[Heaven]

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he couldn't face (voluntarily)?

[MarkinNH]

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he could face (voluntarily)?

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
I'll stand beside and support a man or woman who fights for their beliefs, long before I'll stand beside a man or woman who rolls over and plays dead at the 1st chance to save their a$$, because it it the easy way out

[Pineedles]

MarkinNH you got it so right! It's all about integrity! There are people like Ward Bird, and there are people like the critics of him for not taking the deal here on this thread. I have never faced Ward's decision that he had to make, but I hope I would have as much integrity as he did.

[Heaven]

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

[lawn psycho]

That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

So do you believe his lack of taking the stand is reason for you to cast doubt on his guilt or innocence?

It was discussed previously that if he took the stand, the prior incident with the shooting of the stump would have been fair game. It's possible his lawyer advised him not to take the stand believing the State of NH could not prove their case.

You could take Mother Theresa and make her look like a gang member witht the right prosecuter (think Duke Lacrosse). When you take the stand, it's very easy to paint someone in a bad light as so many things are fair game.

[Heaven]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

[Seeker]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I'm missing something here. Where does the 2 years come from? I was under the impression if you had a felony conviction you lost it for life. If he took the plea he would have, in effect, have a felony conviction.

[lawn psycho]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

There are people who have been wrongly convicted of rape for one or two decases and turned down parole as it would require them to admit to the crime and show remorse.

I guess it depends on how strong your personal convictions are.

[MarkinNH]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I am no judge, attorney or professor of the law nor do I know the details of the plea bargain but I believe that to have taken the plea bargain or be found guilty, Ward was loosing his right to own and possess firearms for life either way. A felon is a felon. Ward's decision was based on seeking the truth not in attempt to save his right to posses firearms.
My son, due to certain stupidity's in his younger life and due to his minor criminal record is not even "legally" allowed in my home due to the fact that there are firearms in my home. He cannot even "legally" ride in my truck for the same reason.
His legal rights as to firearms ownership or even being in a location where there are firearms, are gone for the rest of his life.

[Heaven]

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

[fatlazyless]

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

[Lakesrider]

Why? For reasons like this. That happen everyday in this country.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/mreid/EPIC%20FAIL/scumbag00011.jpg

If only this were Texas....Ward would be a free man.

[Argie's Wife]

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

Bird doesn't have to answer that question; it's his RIGHT.

It's every American's right.

The better question is: why do we have a law with a minimum sentence like this on the books?

[Lakesrider]

I meant that in Texas he probably would not have been given a sentence as the one he got. They are a little different down there as far as guns go.;)

[MAXUM]

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?


Hey FLL, great question. I have the same one. I cannot understand why he wouldn't have opted for a 1911 instead. Clearly a superior choice IMHO.

[MarkinNH]

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

[Rusty]

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

Look who's talking! intelligent

[MarkinNH]

Oh Man. One of the few times I forget to use spellchecker before I submit, I get nailed.
Oh well. Live and learn. :)

[Newbiesaukee]

As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school):):)

[Bigstan]

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!

[Rusty]

As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school):):)

FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.

[ApS]

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!
Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA. :patriot:

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book (http://books.google.com/books?id=F6qwoLzjlI0C&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=%22sig,+%22sauer-is-made-in-the-usa%22&source=bl&ots=Ktret-cLeh&sig=lVbGNPXvIXn8Bn-YM5aicdO4VP4&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false) through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!

[MAXUM]

Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA. :patriot:

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book (http://books.google.com/books?id=F6qwoLzjlI0C&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=%22sig,+%22sauer-is-made-in-the-usa%22&source=bl&ots=Ktret-cLeh&sig=lVbGNPXvIXn8Bn-YM5aicdO4VP4&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false) through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!

Eh - I'll stick with a Kimber.

[jeffatsquam]

agree..

Both SIGs I have owned actually broke at the range (220,226)

I know some swear by them, but way overpriced for the quality IMO.

Kimbers are my shooters, Glocks are my tools.

:)

BLA-BLA-BLA-BLA,,

Do you have anything that could help Ward Bird and his family moving forward?

[Gavia immer]

FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.

Has FLL ever made a correct use of its', its, or it's?

[fatlazyless]

As I understand, it's is a conjunction for it is, and its' is an optional use of the apostrophe and it shows a possessive use for its', while its without the apostrophe is the other optional use that also denotes the possessive case.

Writing its' or its can both be used to denote the possessive case because the lack of an apostrophe is understood because it is commonly used without an apostrophe, however its' is more grammatically correct than its without an apostrophe for denoting possession.

Capice! .......... That's Italian for "Understand, do you get it!"

[fatlazyless]

Josh McElveen of WMUR-channel 9 tv news interviewed Gov Lynch on Sunday morning and towards the end of the interview asked the Governor how he was thinking on granting a pardon to Ward Bird. Did anyone see that interview?

[wifi]

Josh McElveen of WMUR-channel 9 tv news interviewed Gov Lynch on Sunday morning and towards the end of the interview asked the Governor how he was thinking on granting a pardon to Ward Bird. Did anyone see that interview?

Considering you brought it up.... let me guess....

[fatlazyless]

Josh McElveen did a real good job of asking questions and had follow up questions on the same topic as well. The Sunday morning interview was a different format than the WMUR evening news as they quickly went though a number of different questions. Both Josh and Gov Lynch were serious in nature and asked & answered directly and quickly to make best use of their time. Overall, it was about the best interview show I've seen on WMUR.

Hopefully, someone with better skills than me can reproduce the WMUR - Gov Lynch interview video here that asks about Ward Bird.

Overall, I would say in the interview that Gov Lynch was pretty much non-committal on Ward Bird and he said that he would just have to wait for any pardon process to reach his desk first before making any decisions.

If I remember correct, the five member governor's council has a five member vote on each pardon and the governor does not have a vote. What the governor does have is a veto power over any governor's council pardon vote.

The governor's council currently has eight different pardons for eight different people up for consideration according to what was said in the interview.

So far in the six plus years that John Lynch has served as NH governor, no pardons have been granted, but who knows.....only time will tell!

[Dogg]

It amazes me (not really) that nobody on the supporting side brought up the fact that he (Ward) has a past issue with handguns. All that is brought up in the first couple pages is how the accusers record has not been allowed on the record; yet those same people don't feel it is important to include Ward's background in the same sentence. How people don't realize why someone's accusations or record (if the were convicted) should not be discussed or an issue when the incidents take place AFTER the aspect of the event is beyond me.

I am not here to say he (Mr. Bird) is guilty or not, I was not there and I don't know; what I do know is that a group of his peers found him guilty and that really is enough for me. If you care to defend the accused, you might as well bring up his past instead of hiding it (unless you didn't know) and stop making the focus of your argument someone else's future (her issues occurred after this event).

After reading this thread I am well aware that many might not see my viewpoint, just understand it was written by an outsider with no interest in this..

[Rusty]

Christine Harris states: “she was the victim and calling Bird and his family liars”.

Below is the article that is in todays LDS:
By Gail Ober
THE LACONIA DAILY SUN (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2011/1/14L.pdf)

CONCORD — A nearly 400-page pardon package concerning the Moultonborough man convicted of criminal threatening was delivered to the governor and Executive Council’s office yesterday. The package was compiled by the Office of the Attorney General and contains Ward Bird’s three sentence request for a hearing, letters of support from his family, friends and supporters, the petition signed by hundreds of people supporting his pardon request and trial documents prepared by former Carroll County Attorney Robin Gordon, whose office prosecuted him. Bird, 49, was convicted of criminal threatening in 2008 after a jury trial. N.H. law requires a manditory sentence of 3-6 years in state prison for crimes committed with guns. The N.H. Supreme Count unanimously upheld the verdict and Bird has been in jail since November — first at the N.H. State Prison and most recently at the Carroll County House of Corrections. It also contains a two-page typed statement from Christine Harris, the woman who said she was lost when she drove into Bird’s driveway in April 2006 and was subsequently threatened by Bird with a handgun when she got out of her car. “No person in his right mind would (sic) do what he did. No one would pull a hand gun (sic) on someone unless he was comfortable doing this before,” she typed in block letters telling the governor and council that she was the victim and calling Bird and his family liars. Harris went on to say that she believes she has been villianized by the media — in the time since her altercation with Bird she has been charged with animal cruelty and animal hoarding — and that she thinks he should have been kept in the New Hampshire State Prison. Gordon stated that her prosecution of Bird was based on “the dangerous use of a firearm” and that he initially told investigating officers that he “’overreacted and owes Harris an apology.’” “I have always been concerned about and willing to prosecute crime involving the misuse of guns and other dangerous weapons,” Gordon wrote. “However, I have also been open to resolving cases when there is an expression of remorse and acknowledgment of responsibility for the criminal action,” she continued. “Mr. Bird was and still is unwilling to acknowledge any wrongdoing on his part.” Those defending Bird testified to his upstanding character and his demonstrated willingness to help those in need. “Ward is among the most up-right and honest men I have ever met,” wrote Rev. Carol Snow-Asher the pastor of the Center Harbor Congregational Church attended by Bird and his family. “There are few people in this congregation (or in the community) who have not been recipients on some kindness from Ward and his family,” she continued. Also writing letters of testimony for Bird’s good character were former Police Chief Scott Kinmond and current Chief Thomas Dawson, who was a corporal when he investigated the complaint against Bird by Harris. “While I can’t opine that a complete pardon at present would be appropriate, I do believe that a commutation of his sentence that would allow him to live at his home and to continue working would be fitting and better serve the interests of justice,” Dawson said. Other letters of support come from people whose children are Boy Scouts. “I want you to approach this pardon request knowing that there are not just boys, Cub Scouts who like, trust, and count on Ward Bird, but behind each and every one of them is a parent, or two, that entrusted Ward with their sons,” wrote Rebecca L. Bryant who is a Justice of the peace and the parent of a Boy Scout. Ward’s Bird’s request for a pardon is but one of seven that will be considered by Gov. John Lynch and the Executive Council at their meeting on Jan. 19. Lynch’s press secretary Colin Manning said the Executive Council will only decide, at that time, if Bird should get a pardon hearing.

[MarkinNH]

It amazes me (not really) that nobody on the supporting side brought up the fact that he (Ward) has a past issue with handguns. All that is brought up in the first couple pages is how the accusers record has not been allowed on the record; yet those same people don't feel it is important to include Ward's background in the same sentence. How people don't realize why someone's accusations or record (if the were convicted) should not be discussed or an issue when the incidents take place AFTER the aspect of the event is beyond me.

I am not here to say he (Mr. Bird) is guilty or not, I was not there and I don't know; what I do know is that a group of his peers found him guilty and that really is enough for me. If you care to defend the accused, you might as well bring up his past instead of hiding it (unless you didn't know) and stop making the focus of your argument someone else's future (her issues occurred after this event).

After reading this thread I am well aware that many might not see my viewpoint, just understand it was written by an outsider with no interest in this..

It amazes me (not really) that people who wish to express the viewpoint can't be bothered to use correct information.
Apparently you do have an interest in this or you would not have bothered to add your .02 cents worth. So given that
Maybe because the "past issue" you are refereeing to has nothing to do with the present situation at hand. Also maybe next time you should take a moment to get your information correct. The "past issue " did not involve a handgun !!!!!!
Your no better then the liberal newspapers that are incapable or unwilling to get their information correct. The article in the Union Leader today stated that the past owner of the property that was for sale, moved out of state to get away from the family feud. That must make one hell of a daily commute, for I understand that she works locally. The Union leader also stated that the so called victim had the "cash assets" to purchase the property. I believe that several newspapers and even the court documents had previously stated that the woman was going to try and get grants to obtain the funds with which to purchase property.

Yes, I am very biased in this situation for I know Ward and I will stand beside him all the way. I also believe his story way more than I can believe the story of the "victim"

[Argie's Wife]

I'd advise anyone interested to read the court documents, especially the sentencing hearing.

The judge had NO CHOICE in how he sentenced Bird and was almost apologetic about it. It's an interesting read and really makes you wonder why/how the law passed that mandated the sentencing for this crime.

[Heaven]

I'd advise anyone interested to read the court documents, especially the sentencing hearing.

The judge had NO CHOICE in how he sentenced Bird and was almost apologetic about it. It's an interesting read and really makes you wonder why/how the law passed that mandated the sentencing for this crime.
I assume the law passed because the discretion was being abused or was seen as being unjust. Even I, who believes the jury made the correct decision, think that "freeing bird" to live at home DISARMED would be satisfactory.

[ITD]

What amazes me is that the prosecutor offered no time in jail plus probation and an agreement that Ward not have a handgun for 2 years in return for an admission of guilt. The Prosecutor obviously thought this was a just offer. Ward Bird maintained innocence and would not plead guilty. So the prosecutor pursued a charge that had a mandatory 3 year sentence, which in my opinion is not just, nor is it in anyway comparable to the plea bargain. I understand that for a guilty person, the incentive of a plea is a lighter sentence, going to trial risks a harsher punishment. But I feel that the prosecutor in this case was not just in pursuing the charge she pursued, that the punishment does not fit the crime, especially in light of the plea deal and the if Governor Lynch has any stones, he will commute the sentence to time served, quickly.

[John A. Birdsall]

I read todays Union Leader 1-14-11 and they had an article on Bird. Seems to me that they gave hims some just desert:rolleye1:

[Rusty]

What amazes me is that the prosecutor offered no time in jail plus probation and an agreement that Ward not have a handgun for 2 years in return for an admission of guilt. The Prosecutor obviously thought this was a just offer. Ward Bird maintained innocence and would not plead guilty. So the prosecutor pursued a charge that had a mandatory 3 year sentence, which in my opinion is not just, nor is it in anyway comparable to the plea bargain. I understand that for a guilty person, the incentive of a plea is a lighter sentence, going to trial risks a harsher punishment. But I feel that the prosecutor in this case was not just in pursuing the charge she pursued, that the punishment does not fit the crime, especially in light of the plea deal and the if Governor Lynch has any stones, he will commute the sentence to time served, quickly.


The prosecutor didn’t convict Bird, a jury of his peers convicted him. Then the NH Supreme Court upheld that conviction.

If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.

[Lakegeezer]

If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.It may not be an assault on the Sixth if the punishment was a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Three years incarceration for what went down seems cruel and unusual, especially when compared to other jurisdictions and crimes.

[Rusty]

It may not be an assault on the Sixth if the punishment was a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Three years incarceration for what went down seems cruel and unusual, especially when compared to other jurisdictions and crimes.

NH RSA 631:4 (2007) takes care of the 8th amendment. Even the 2011 change/addition that was made to this RSA won’t make any difference as far as the 8th amendment is concerned.

This is the RSA 2011 change/addition: "IV. A person who responds to a threat which would be considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or to another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act under this section."

IMHO Ward Bird was not in anyway threatened with "serious bodily injury or death" by Harris.

[ITD]

The prosecutor didn’t convict Bird, a jury of his peers convicted him. Then the NH Supreme Court upheld that conviction.

If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.

Sometimes juries are a crap shoot, but that's not my point. There's a problem with a prosecutor who on the one hand will allow someone to plead for no jail only probation, then on the other hand pursues a charge with a mandatory 3 year minimum sentence. These are two extremely different punishments for the same crime. There is no rhyme nor reason here. Punishments should fit the crime, not the whim of a prosecutor.

[Rusty]

Sometimes juries are a crap shoot, but that's not my point. There's a problem with a prosecutor who on the one hand will allow someone to plead for no jail only probation, then on the other hand pursues a charge with a mandatory 3 year minimum sentence. These are two extremely different punishments for the same crime. There is no rhyme nor reason here. Punishments should fit the crime, not the whim of a prosecutor.

Plea bargaining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain)happens all the time. Wards case is not unusual at all and the prosecutor did exactly what falls within the law.


"A plea bargain (also plea agreement, plea deal or copping a plea) is an agreement in a criminal case whereby the prosecutor offers the defendant the opportunity to plead guilty, usually to a lesser charge or to the original criminal charge with a recommendation of a lighter than the maximum sentence. A plea bargain allows criminal defendants to avoid the risk of conviction at trial on the original more serious charge.

For example, a criminal defendant charged with a felony theft charge, the conviction of which would require imprisonment in state prison, may be offered the opportunity to plead guilty to a misdemeanor theft charge, which may not carry jail time."

[Seeker]

Not to take sides but to further clarify the plea bargain "deal" about not being able to possess a firearm for 2 years which FLL thinks is a no-brainer, the federal law is as follows:
Ineligible Persons:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
* Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.

IIRC as an ex LEO taking the plea bargain is PLEADING GUILTY! Therefore, federal law, taking precedence in this case, would prohibit Mr Bird from ever possessing a firearm.

If, and I have no personal knowledge, his story is truthful, I would commend him for not taking the deal.

[Rusty]

Not to take sides but to further clarify the plea bargain "deal" about not being able to possess a firearm for 2 years which FLL thinks is a no-brainer, the federal law is as follows:
Ineligible Persons:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
* Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.

IIRC as an ex LEO taking the plea bargain is PLEADING GUILTY! Therefore, federal law, taking precedence in this case, would prohibit Mr Bird from ever possessing a firearm.

If, and I have no personal knowledge, his story is truthful, I would commend him for not taking the deal.

Bird was offered to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge but refused. The Federal law does not apply to a misdemeanor.

Watch this video: http://www.wcsh6.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=742208752001

[Rusty]

What is wrong with our NH state Rep's who signed the petition to pardon Ward Bird and now wished that they didn’t.

Rep. Accornero said had he known about the Attorney General's report he probably would have given more thought before adding his name to the petition.

Over 100 of our State Rep.’s signed this petition before knowing the full details of Bird’s prosecution. This is really sad and it shows just how politics creates our laws instead of what is best for the people of NH.

HERE (http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110115/GJNEWS02/701159897/-1/CITNEWS) is the article that is in today's Citizen of Laconia.

[MarkinNH]

What is wrong with our NH state Rep's who signed the petition to pardon Ward Bird and now wished that they didn’t.

Rep. Accornero said had he known about the Attorney General's report he probably would have given more thought before adding his name to the petition.

Over 100 of our State Rep.’s signed this petition before knowing the full details of Bird’s prosecution. This is really sad and it shows just how politics creates our laws instead of what is best for the people of NH.

HERE (http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110115/GJNEWS02/701159897/-1/CITNEWS) is the article that is in today's Citizen of Laconia.

Your post speaks in the plural, as in multiple State Rep's are now saying that they wish they hadn't signed the petition. I read the article you linked to and it doesn't say Anywhere that ANY State Rep now wished they hadn't signed the petition. Only that the One state rep wished he had given it more thought.
You must work for a newspaper because you can't get your information right any better then they can, If your going to twist the article around so that it suits your post, don't be so foolish as to post a link to the article so that people can go read it and see what it really said.
I do agree however with your statement about how politics work. Not always are the best interests of the people at the front of a decision or law. The very law that required the judge to give Ward Bird a mandatory 3-6 yr sentance is a perfect example.

[Rusty]

Your post speaks in the plural, as in multiple State Rep's are now saying that they wish they hadn't signed the petition. I read the article you linked to and it doesn't say Anywhere that ANY State Rep now wished they hadn't signed the petition. Only that the One state rep wished he had given it more thought.
You must work for a newspaper because you can't get your information right any better then they can, If your going to twist the article around so that it suits your post, don't be so foolish as to post a link to the article so that people can go read it and see what it really said.
I do agree however with your statement about how politics work. Not always are the best interests of the people at the front of a decision or law. The very law that required the judge to give Ward Bird a mandatory 3-6 yr sentance is a perfect example.

You are right "MarkinNH" I should not have used "Rep's" and "they".

Thanks for the correction.

[wuwu]

I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!

[MarkinNH]

People who wish to focus on Wards "past issue" of legal run in's and other people who haven't already, should do Ward the decency to read up on the so called "victims" past history of legal run in's and they might well come to the conclusion that this is not a woman who is is know for being a decent, honest and truthful individual. Could it possibly be that she is lying through her teeth in this situation ?
The recent AG's report to the Governor, nor the words of Christine Harris, do not surprise me one bit. The AG's office is never going to step up to the plate and say they were wrong to pursue this case to the extent that they did, for they have their political A$$'s and an office to protect. Christine Harris has never been a decent upstanding citizen, why would she start now. They will do and say whatever they can in attempt to keep Ward where he is and uphold the sentence.

[Heaven]

I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!
The continued discussion of the trial aspects are moot, as the last sentence in the article says
"The thing that I hope everybody understands is that a pardon [of Bird] only excuses the punishment," said Luther. "The crime stands and it'll be on his record."
And given that, and the permanent loss of his living with guns, I think he should be released to serve out his sentence outside of the jail.
Again, all the discussion about "he said she said" is moot. The jury decision stands no matter how many "free ward bird" signatures or signs there are,

[Pineedles]

I have a problem with the Jury. Or maybe the instructions given to them by the Judge, or once again the Jury itself. Has anyone ever heard of Jury nullification? It means that they ignore the direction of the Judge and vote the way they think is right. Were they so snowed that they didn't think they had that option?

[tis]

IMHO most juries can be easily led. Need I say more?

[Rusty]

IMHO most juries can be easily led. Need I say more?



Jurors are misled if we don’t like the verdict….if the verdict goes the way we want it then the jurors did their homework.

[Pineedles]

Jurors are misled if we don’t like the verdict….if the verdict goes the way we want it then the jurors did their homework.

Words of wisdom? More like, nea, nea. we won. You didn't! It's not a contest, it's about a good man who stood up for his rights, and unfortunatly got the shaft by our justice system.

I had no problem when they awarded a man over 1 million dollars who was wrongly jailed for over 15 years in Hartford.

Can a civil suit can be persued by Ward Bird against the State? I think a jury of his peers would go for 10 or 20 million dollars.

[Pineedles]

If a women can get 10 million dollars for too hot coffee at McD's then what's stopping Ward's family from saying the conviction was wrong, and he deserves the money. Now that we are all watching, I don't think there will be any problem with jury intimidation.

They let OJ go and they put Ward in jail.

[Rusty]

On page 110 of the “Trial-Transcript-Vol-3-212_06-S-154_20080627_StvWardBird.pdf” the defense was asked where they stood in terms of the defendant’s case. The defense attorney said: “The defense rests, Your Honor”. http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/12.-Trial-Transcript-Vol-3-212_06-S-154_20080627_StvWardBird.pdf

The defense Attorney’s for Ward Bird did not bring anyone to the stand including Ward Bird to defend this case. “NO ONE” absolutely “NO ONE”.
What a shame!!

Now here we are in 2011 and we have the following: character witness after character witness, protest marches, fund raisers, trips to the state capital to meet with the Governor, over 100 of our state legislator’s sign a petition to free Ward Bird, and now a pardon for his release.

Where on earth was everybody during Ward Bird’s trial??

I’m all for Ward Bird’s release, he has suffered enough and so has his family. But what I have a problem with is when people say things like: the jurors were misled, the law is wrong, the sentence is wrong, etc., etc., etc.


In the US, defendants have more Constitutional rights afforded to them than in any other country. We have much more favorable due process rights afforded to defendants than any other country. If you look up the 4th Amendment, 5th Amendment, 6th Amendment, 7th Amendment, and 8th Amendment and you will see why this is.

Also, it is well settled that juries give more favorable outcomes to defendants than judges. And in the US, every criminal defendant facing jail time has the right to a jury trial.


OK, NOW LET’S GET WARD BIRD HOME WHERE HE BELONGS!!!!

[Heaven]

You are right "MarkinNH" I should not have used "Rep's" and "they".

Thanks for the correction.
Interestingly the title of the article does use the plural, although it doesn't seem to be backed up in the article.

[MarkinNH]

Interestingly the title of the article does use the plural, although it doesn't seem to be backed up in the article.

Good catch. Even I didn't pick up on that.
One more good example of how the newspapers just want to print something and sell papers. They don't care whether or not they have the information and facts right.

[songkrai]

I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!

My points all along. Why did this progress so far? Were local police called on scene or did lady go to police station and file a complaint? Why didn't this just stop right in Moultonborough? If it was indeed a he said she said - why didn't our locals believe our local resident over that of an out of towner? I've found very very little as to what happened at the beginning. Were the police called on scene? Or did lady go to station and file a complaint? And what discretion does our uniformed branch have is such situations?

[sa meredith]

I've just about had my fill of this thread...so couple final thoughts, from me.
I continue to be amused at the postings that read something like..."let's get him home, where he belongs"
"why hasn't this been overturned yet" "the Governor should just set him free"
Seriously people...what country do you live in...it doesn't work like that.
He was convicted by a jury, the judge then imposes a sentence in accordance with the law that "we the people" have created. There is NO ROOM OR PLACE for discretion. (Granted, there can be...like if he was terminally ill, and had a month to live, or something like that).
Stop saying/thinking/writing, he should just be set free. Under what law, I ask?
Attack and change the law...not the judge, jury, or governor.
Secondly...
I have sort of come full circle as the backround info surfaced here in this forum.
This woman used to live 2 miles from me, and was well known in town as a bit "off". 50 animals kept in a trailor, disrestpected police and other officials, and was known to be delusional... so,at first, I thought..well, maybe she was looking for trouble when she went to the propery that day. Maybe Ward was indeed frightened and was concerned for his safety.
However, it then comes out, that Ward is no stanger to police, and confrontation...and has a history of wanting to settle issues by brandishing, or even using, a firearm.
Sort of has that old school mentallity that while on his own property, he will set the rules and the law, not society.
It was asked earlier in this thread, why did this go so far???Why not just handled quickly, and locally? Well, my answer would be that, when the police got the call, and heard it was Ward Bird's property, they said "well, here we go again." And, although it may not be fair, because of his gun history, and earlier confrontation related to property issues...the woman had instant credibility with the police.
She said she was there to see some property for sale, and he brandished a firearm. He, in the past, has done battle with family over the selling of property, to the point where the police and guns where involved. So...how could they not believe her? Was he a victim of circumstance? Maybe.
Is she coocoo? Probably. Did Ward break the law, and was it not the first time? You know what...yeah, I think so.

[Newbiesaukee]

With respect to parsing headlines in the Citizen of Laconia to sway opinion on the Forum....

The headline reads "Petitioners reflect on their support of Bird." This is correct. "Reflect" means to think about or analyze past action. It is true that one petitioner reflected and decided he might not have signed if he had more information. But another petitioner, Luther, reflected that he would have signed it even if he knew the "new" information.

The point is..the headline in the paper is, strictly speaking, correct using the plural. The other point is that the headline makes no difference to the issue at hand and some of us (including me) may just have too much time on our hands.

[wuwu]

Posted on January 14, 2011 by John Martin
Hi everyone,

I wish I heard about this case earlier. They have the WRONG person in Jail. I rented a house to the same Christine Harris! She never paid rent, and when I took her to court, she made similar claims that I threatened her life over the phone, but she couldn’t come up with any phone records. Then she worked the court system for FIVE months! When the judge finally made a decision for her to leave, she filed a motion with the State Supreme court for intent to appeal, which was rejected.

My entire home was DESTROYED from Rottweilers she was breeding. The floors, walls were covered in animal feces and urine, and the bathtub had blood stains all over it from a dog that died there giving birth to a litter! I never recovered the damages to the property, nor the back rent. To make matters worse, I later see her name Christine Harris, a woman… “previously convicted and sentenced to six months in prison on animal cruelty charges in Salem District Court”!

CHRISTINE HARRIS should be in Jail!

I did contact the Governor’s office yesterday after hearing it on NPR. I gave them my information and contact number. Then this morning I contacted the Attorney General’s office with the same information.

I’m sorry I didn’t know about this earlier. (submitted by PeterC, curromastini@gmail.com)

Interesting, don't you think?

[sa meredith]

You are very late to the game with this info...it's been dicussed, re-discussed, and discussed over again...somewhere among the 12,478 posts in this never ending thread.
While your info is accurte, if you want to introduce one's history into the case, your power of perception must also be pointed at Ward Bird...who, it turns out...has a history of the police coming to his property, to settle disputes relating to the real estate...has a history of gun "violations"...and has a history of being overly confrontational in such matters.
You see wuwu...What's good for one, has to be good for the other. If one of their histories comes into play...well then, the other has to be afforded the same thing...no?????

[MarkinNH]

However, it then comes out, that Ward is no stanger to police, and confrontation...and has a history of wanting to settle issues by brandishing, or even using, a firearm..

You opened up this particular door. So please enlighten all of us interested as to just what "issues" in Ward's history is he known to have settled by the "brandishing, or even using, a firearm" ?
I know that I for one, would love to hear the answer to this question !

[Happy Gourmand]

Maybe Christine and Ward should be cell mates !!! Sounds just about as rediculous as many of the previous postings in this thread.
She seems like a pretty unsavory character..and many posts paint him like that as well. I have not met either of them.
No doubt that this is a bad situation....Ward put himself between a rock and a hard place with no escape route as far as the charges go. But when he opted to turn down the plea that was offered, he decided to gamble as to what the outcome would be. He lost.
I don't believe that anything that has been said in this forum can or will change the outcome.
At the end of the day, there are still only 2 people on this earth who know exactly what happened that day. Speculation, innuendoes, postulations and opinions have no bearing on the outcome.

[sa meredith]

You opened up this particular door. So please enlighten all of us interested as to just what "issues" in Ward's history is he known to have settled by the "brandishing, or even using, a firearm" ?
I know that I for one, would love to hear the answer to this question !

Christ Almighty...I don't know...somewhere in these endless posts that just keep coming I read a story about gunshots and fireworks and getting dragged by a car and guns being shown and I DON'T FREAKIN' CARE ANYMORE!
Seriously...I know the woman, and as stated, believe she is not quite right. And, since have formed an opinion (based on this thread) that Ward is a bit of a confrontational person...but whatever...who cares?! This was a nice little thread at one point to make people aware of the fact that there was an organized movement to free Ward...website, functions, etc. But now...it's like some people think what they post will help the guy. Like there is actually an end game here...guess what, there is not!
The whole thread is a pile of nonsense now:
she's evil, he's nice, the jury is crazy, gun control, no gun control, live free or die, shoot a home invader and get a prize, animal cruelty, free him now, let him go, serve the three yeras, he has it coming, I like ice cream....
Whatever...no matter what is stated here, the Pats still lost to the Jets yesterday, and I can't fix that. Sorry.

[tis]

Ok, so I have a question. What good is it to carry a gun if, when you need to use it or even pull it out, you are going to go to jail? I have always thought you could protect yourself or your property but it doesn't seem like you are safe doing that any more.

[MarkinNH]

Christ Almighty...I don't know...somewhere in these endless posts that just keep coming I read a story about gunshots and fireworks and getting dragged by a car and guns being shown and I DON'T FREAKIN' CARE ANYMORE!
Seriously...I know the woman, and as stated, believe she is not quite right. And, since have formed an opinion (based on this thread) that Ward is a bit of a confrontational person...but whatever...who cares?! This was a nice little thread at one point to make people aware of the fact that there was an organized movement to free Ward...website, functions, etc. But now...it's like some people think what they post will help the guy. Like there is actually an end game here...guess what, there is not!
The whole thread is a pile of nonsense now:
she's evil, he's nice, the jury is crazy, gun control, no gun control, live free or die, shoot a home invader and get a prize, animal cruelty, free him now, let him go, serve the three years, he has it coming, I like ice cream....
Whatever...no matter what is stated here, the Pats still lost to the Jets yesterday, and I can't fix that. Sorry.

WOW, don't get your panties all in a wad ! If your so dissatisfied with the direction of the thread and you feel it is a pile of nonsense, why do you keep coming back to it ? Don't read it anymore.
I have known the man personally for 20+ years and I am not aware of any "issues" that he "settled" in any form with a "firearm" and apparently neither do you.

An apology to to me about yesterdays game is completely unnecessary. I don't know who played, who won or lost and honestly don't care. I don't watch sports. But Thanks anyway. :)