Rock or Obstruction near FL#44 ????

Phantom · 09-19-2005, 10:15 AM

This may best answered by Bizer or someone else "extremely" familiar with this passage area. Here's the story-

This past week evidently 2 boats hit some sort of obstruction (presumed a rock) when "properly" passing thru the FL44 (Pitchwood) passage on their way out of Wiers to the main body of the lake. Although I don't know about the second boat - the first one I talked to personally and in fact took him out in my boat to prove to me that he passed on the correct side of the sticks (he did)!! At the time he claims he was somewhere 10-20 feet from the FL44 buoy itself and was on flat plain not going much faster than 10-15 or so MPH (thus drawing maybe 2-3ft max). The boat is a 23ft, center console fishing boat (similar to a Trophy). He now has a lower unit in need of work.

I have been thru that passage (in fact I prefer it to the FL#2) thousands of times without incident -- However, the vast majority of my boating is not with the water at this level. I am paranoid now to even attempt it now (new boat fear)

I find it tough to believe -- but this individual was adament about where he was etc.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Sophie C or Doris E navigate this passage on their route to Merideth

Anyone got any insights ???

islandAl · 09-19-2005, 01:55 PM

Low water, close to existing marker, 10-15 mph and my guess is broken off marker bouy. Extremely difficult to locate as you are looking for the top of a 4x4 probalby 4 feet below the surface. The slim bouy and narrow lower unit in perfect alignment and bang.

Yes, I have done it before in another location a couple of years ago. Bizer was able to locate the item and notified MP and I think it was removed.

Mee-n-Mac · 09-21-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandAl

Low water, close to existing marker, 10-15 mph and my guess is broken off marker bouy. Extremely difficult to locate as you are looking for the top of a 4x4 probalby 4 feet below the surface. The slim bouy and narrow lower unit in perfect alignment and bang.

Yes, I have done it before in another location a couple of years ago. Bizer was able to locate the item and notified MP and I think it was removed.

This is most worrisome ! Like Phantom I go though there quite a bit and avoid the Eagle / Gov I channel like the plague. Worse yet in going to Cummings Cove I'll run close to FL44 to keep the "channel" as wide as possible. Next time I'm there I'll stop and have a looksee but as mentioned above a broken off spar could be hard to find. I recall that this past winter several people got underwater video cameras. In addition to being curious as to how well they work, this is a good opportunity to use one. How about it (Misty Blue, lg) ?

Misty Blue · 09-21-2005, 10:19 PM

An old pal and I dove on the steam barge wreck (by Irwin's Gardens) today and used the north passage both times. We had the dive gear, fish finder and camera with us! If we had only knew.

Any way I have the duty this weekend and need an excuse to poke around that area. I'll give it a try.

Misty Blue

Phantom · 09-22-2005, 09:26 AM

Misty - That would be AWESOME if you could poke around that area !!

According to what the individual described to me it should be "fairly" close to the existing FL44 stick. Granted, what he thought was 10 -20 feet from the buoy and reality may actually be two different things - distance plays tricks on ya over water! None the less, he has the outdrive to prove SOMETHING is there in that area.

Until someone like you (after diving it) can assure me nothing's there I'm not going anywhere near that passage with our new boat. I've left enough stern drive & prop parts at the bottom of this lake through the years

Please post what you find (if nothing at all) -- Thanks again -- I don't know why others didn't chime in on this thread -- It's a well used passage.

PROPELLER · 09-22-2005, 02:16 PM

What would you like us to say Phantom? If this is the passage out in front of Spindle point(I don't have my map with me) then I have been through there several times this year, fortunately without incident.

I will be very careful now to stay away from FL44.

jrc · 09-22-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

....I don't know why others didn't chime in on this thread -- It's a well used passage.

We are waiting for the weekend so we can go up and bend a prop.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-22-2005, 06:56 PM

I dove there a few years back while on a mission to find something. What's down there is a structure made out of wooden poles (like telephone poles), bolted together in permid shape and sunk into the bottom. The tops are gone, either broken off or cut off a couple feet below low water mark. There are several of these structures each located near various lighted marks on that side of the lake.

My theory is they were used as day marks or perhaps even lighted with flares. Once they fell into obsolescence they were either cut off or abandoned or maybe the ice got them. Your chances of hitting them are slim since they’re a small target that is of course, unless you like living on the edge and cutting the corners. Believe me if you only knew just what's near most marks and how easy it is for them to be moved, you have a whole new respect for the mark.

BTW: Wooden items last a very long time in the lake. For example, the Lady of the lake sunk 1894 and still has the paint on her and very little decay.

Mee-n-Mac · 09-22-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

I dove there a few years back while on a mission to find something. What's down there is a structure made out of wooden poles (like telephone poles), bolted together in permid shape and sunk into the bottom. The tops are gone, either broken off or cut off a couple feet below low water mark. There are several of these structures each located near various lighted marks on that side of the lake.

My theory is they were used as day marks or perhaps even lighted with flares. Once they fell into obsolescence they were either cut off or abandoned or maybe the ice got them. Your chances of hitting them are slim since they’re a small target that is of course, unless you like living on the edge and cutting the corners. Believe me if you only knew just what's near most marks and how easy it is for them to be moved, you have a whole new respect for the mark.

I like the explanation but I'm still curious as to how the small CC boat managed to hit the top of the above structure (if that's what happened). While the water is lower now than earlier in the season, it's still not all that low. Given the water level the floating part of the buoy will drift more than when the water is high, could there have been a onshore (on-island) wind that day ? Or has the base moved towards the island ? Guess it would be nice to know.

Phantom · 09-23-2005, 07:16 AM

Thanks Winnipesaukee Diver --

Your post was just in time before we head up to the Lake for the Week-end.

Do I take it from your post that the Pyramid of poles- Is in fact close to the FL44? and thus if you favor the Black Top (other side) your out of harms way??

Also, seems wierd that the Marker isn't set atop this obstruction -- clearly if a 22ft boat caught it, I can't imagine what it would do to the underside of some of the cruisers I see run through there! This ought to be interesting next year when this becomes the passage of choice to duck around the new NWZ approved for the other side of Eagle.

Thanks again --

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-23-2005, 01:05 PM

It's got to be at least 10 years since I last dove there, perhaps the structure has collapsed or changed since then. The structure consisted of three poles coming together with cross members attached. Other poles were lying on the bottom indicating a forth pole rising out of the meeting point, supporting my theory that it was a mark.

I have seen tree trunks and old poles float vertically in the water column just under the surface. Johnson cove is just such a place where they are still floating today. They are interesting to play with since they appear to be stuck in the bottom, but move when you touch them. We shove them and they appear to falling over, only to right themselves again. Perhaps their gases from the decaying process caught inside that make them do this. These are rather large logs, foot and a half in diameter and 12 to 14 feet long. If you hit one of these, it could sure ruin your day to say the least.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-23-2005, 02:06 PM

The answer is; Not much. The new marks consists of a cylindrical float attached to a 15 feet long or so, 1/4" S/S cable imbedded into a cement block, 1.5 ft" square by 3" thick. On their own they are not going anywhere, however, someone tied to one could easily move it or if they are hit could dislodge them as well. With the long tethers the new ones can move some distance from their original spot during low water.

The old methods were a lot better; they were 16' long, tapered spars directly coupled to a cement block. The amount of spar sticking out of the water related to just how deep it was there. But, I can see that they were high maintenance especially when they started leaving them in over the winter.

Once again, if you were to dive or snorkel around some of these marks and see why they're where they are, I'd bet you would have a whole new respect for them. One such surprise is the Sewall Point mark, bet you didn't know there was a 10' diameter bolder just to the north of it, in late summer I can stand on it and the water will only be up to my knees. This is an interesting rock because the ice pushed it there. It's all sandy on one side with gravel and stones plowed up on the other. There are lots of these huge stones in that area, all moving in the same direction just not a close to the surface as the one with the mark.

Another interesting item down in that area is a iron ball about 3' in diameter painted yellow and white with a heavy chain leading to a granite weight. This ball is riveted together, leading me to believe it was made around the turn of the last century and that was most likely a mid-channel marker.

Pineedles · 09-23-2005, 03:40 PM

You must have seen some amazing things under the surface of LW. Have you posted any pictures of the things you've seen? Lady of the Lake, etc. I've heard it's very murky down at the bottom, only dove in the clear waters of Maui on a tour, but I bet Lake Winni would be even more fascinating.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-23-2005, 08:30 PM

If you ever see me coming out of the water after a dive, you'd see why a camera wouldn’t work for me. I'm a treasure hunter or otherwise known as a bottom dweller. I'm face down, crawling through the mud in total darkness scouring the bottom for anything that has the feel of something interesting.

When I come up, I have old bottles and sunglasses tucked in every pocket, ropes and dock lines wrapped around me and mud oozing out everywhere... I usually discard most of my less valuable treasures before I come back on board. Nonetheless, my buddies still call me "Pig Pen". At the end of the dive I may be a little dirty, but I have the best treasures. Not much gets past me down there, I may have my head down most of the time, but I still see a lot more than my dive buddies do.

glennsteely · 09-25-2005, 11:12 PM

I am curious, what are some of the things you have found down there?? My dad and I found a very old anchor when I was a teenager, in Sachem's cove, probably from a barge from the tree farm on Eagle mountain.....the cove has all kinds of trees and logs in it, I have seen those single end floaters you are speaking of in about 30 feet of water in the center of the cove, there is also the remains of a huge dock all the way in the end, alot of it has been removed but the cut off pilings and old boards are still there, good spot for bass fishing.....I would really like to hear about some treasures you have found, this stuff amazes me....

Misty Blue · 09-26-2005, 10:34 AM

'Spent a couple of hoursby light 44 on Saturday morn. Use track line and PS search patterns along with an underwater vidio. No luck. I expect that the vidio was a waste of time since the obstruction would be only a few feet under the surface. Any way the passage seems clear.

I like Winnipesaukee Divers' idea of an upended log. I have seen that before and with a depth of 12 to 14 feet it would be quite the moving hazard. Possibly if floated off. To where????

Note that west side of the Red and White spar (light #44) sholes up very fast and the markings of that spar would imply good water there. Possible?

Misty Blue.

Phantom · 09-27-2005, 06:41 AM

Thanks Misty

09-19-2005, 10:15 AM	#1
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,931 Thanks: 445 Thanked 604 Times in 340 Posts	Rock or Obstruction near FL#44 ???? This may best answered by Bizer or someone else "extremely" familiar with this passage area. Here's the story- This past week evidently 2 boats hit some sort of obstruction (presumed a rock) when "properly" passing thru the FL44 (Pitchwood) passage on their way out of Wiers to the main body of the lake. Although I don't know about the second boat - the first one I talked to personally and in fact took him out in my boat to prove to me that he passed on the correct side of the sticks (he did)!! At the time he claims he was somewhere 10-20 feet from the FL44 buoy itself and was on flat plain not going much faster than 10-15 or so MPH (thus drawing maybe 2-3ft max). The boat is a 23ft, center console fishing boat (similar to a Trophy). He now has a lower unit in need of work. I have been thru that passage (in fact I prefer it to the FL#2) thousands of times without incident -- However, the vast majority of my boating is not with the water at this level. I am paranoid now to even attempt it now (new boat fear) I find it tough to believe -- but this individual was adament about where he was etc. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Sophie C or Doris E navigate this passage on their route to Merideth Anyone got any insights ??? Last edited by Phantom; 09-19-2005 at 11:16 AM.

09-22-2005, 06:56 PM	#8
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	I can tell you what's down there... I dove there a few years back while on a mission to find something. What's down there is a structure made out of wooden poles (like telephone poles), bolted together in permid shape and sunk into the bottom. The tops are gone, either broken off or cut off a couple feet below low water mark. There are several of these structures each located near various lighted marks on that side of the lake. My theory is they were used as day marks or perhaps even lighted with flares. Once they fell into obsolescence they were either cut off or abandoned or maybe the ice got them. Your chances of hitting them are slim since they’re a small target that is of course, unless you like living on the edge and cutting the corners. Believe me if you only knew just what's near most marks and how easy it is for them to be moved, you have a whole new respect for the mark. BTW: Wooden items last a very long time in the lake. For example, the Lady of the lake sunk 1894 and still has the paint on her and very little decay.

09-23-2005, 07:16 AM	#10
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,931 Thanks: 445 Thanked 604 Times in 340 Posts	Thank You Thanks Winnipesaukee Diver -- Your post was just in time before we head up to the Lake for the Week-end. Do I take it from your post that the Pyramid of poles- Is in fact close to the FL44? and thus if you favor the Black Top (other side) your out of harms way?? Also, seems wierd that the Marker isn't set atop this obstruction -- clearly if a 22ft boat caught it, I can't imagine what it would do to the underside of some of the cruisers I see run through there! This ought to be interesting next year when this becomes the passage of choice to duck around the new NWZ approved for the other side of Eagle. Thanks again -- Last edited by Phantom; 09-23-2005 at 11:13 AM.

09-23-2005, 01:05 PM	#11
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Its been a while since my last visit there It's got to be at least 10 years since I last dove there, perhaps the structure has collapsed or changed since then. The structure consisted of three poles coming together with cross members attached. Other poles were lying on the bottom indicating a forth pole rising out of the meeting point, supporting my theory that it was a mark. I have seen tree trunks and old poles float vertically in the water column just under the surface. Johnson cove is just such a place where they are still floating today. They are interesting to play with since they appear to be stuck in the bottom, but move when you touch them. We shove them and they appear to falling over, only to right themselves again. Perhaps their gases from the decaying process caught inside that make them do this. These are rather large logs, foot and a half in diameter and 12 to 14 feet long. If you hit one of these, it could sure ruin your day to say the least. Last edited by Winnipesaukee Divers; 09-23-2005 at 08:02 PM.

09-23-2005, 02:06 PM	#12
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Whats it take to move a mark? The answer is; Not much. The new marks consists of a cylindrical float attached to a 15 feet long or so, 1/4" S/S cable imbedded into a cement block, 1.5 ft" square by 3" thick. On their own they are not going anywhere, however, someone tied to one could easily move it or if they are hit could dislodge them as well. With the long tethers the new ones can move some distance from their original spot during low water. The old methods were a lot better; they were 16' long, tapered spars directly coupled to a cement block. The amount of spar sticking out of the water related to just how deep it was there. But, I can see that they were high maintenance especially when they started leaving them in over the winter. Once again, if you were to dive or snorkel around some of these marks and see why they're where they are, I'd bet you would have a whole new respect for them. One such surprise is the Sewall Point mark, bet you didn't know there was a 10' diameter bolder just to the north of it, in late summer I can stand on it and the water will only be up to my knees. This is an interesting rock because the ice pushed it there. It's all sandy on one side with gravel and stones plowed up on the other. There are lots of these huge stones in that area, all moving in the same direction just not a close to the surface as the one with the mark. Another interesting item down in that area is a iron ball about 3' in diameter painted yellow and white with a heavy chain leading to a granite weight. This ball is riveted together, leading me to believe it was made around the turn of the last century and that was most likely a mid-channel marker. Last edited by Winnipesaukee Divers; 09-25-2005 at 06:28 PM.

09-19-2005, 01:55 PM	#2
islandAl Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mountonboro Posts: 200 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Maybe old marker? Low water, close to existing marker, 10-15 mph and my guess is broken off marker bouy. Extremely difficult to locate as you are looking for the top of a 4x4 probalby 4 feet below the surface. The slim bouy and narrow lower unit in perfect alignment and bang. Yes, I have done it before in another location a couple of years ago. Bizer was able to locate the item and notified MP and I think it was removed.

09-21-2005, 10:19 PM	#4
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Missed oppertunity. An old pal and I dove on the steam barge wreck (by Irwin's Gardens) today and used the north passage both times. We had the dive gear, fish finder and camera with us! If we had only knew. Any way I have the duty this weekend and need an excuse to poke around that area. I'll give it a try. Misty Blue

09-22-2005, 09:26 AM	#5
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,931 Thanks: 445 Thanked 604 Times in 340 Posts	Misty - That would be AWESOME if you could poke around that area !! According to what the individual described to me it should be "fairly" close to the existing FL44 stick. Granted, what he thought was 10 -20 feet from the buoy and reality may actually be two different things - distance plays tricks on ya over water! None the less, he has the outdrive to prove SOMETHING is there in that area. Until someone like you (after diving it) can assure me nothing's there I'm not going anywhere near that passage with our new boat. I've left enough stern drive & prop parts at the bottom of this lake through the years Please post what you find (if nothing at all) -- Thanks again -- I don't know why others didn't chime in on this thread -- It's a well used passage.

09-22-2005, 02:16 PM	#6
PROPELLER Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 340 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What would you like us to say Phantom? If this is the passage out in front of Spindle point(I don't have my map with me) then I have been through there several times this year, fortunately without incident. I will be very careful now to stay away from FL44.

09-23-2005, 03:40 PM	#13
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	Underwaterworld You must have seen some amazing things under the surface of LW. Have you posted any pictures of the things you've seen? Lady of the Lake, etc. I've heard it's very murky down at the bottom, only dove in the clear waters of Maui on a tour, but I bet Lake Winni would be even more fascinating.

09-23-2005, 08:30 PM	#14
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Nope, I don't do cameras If you ever see me coming out of the water after a dive, you'd see why a camera wouldn’t work for me. I'm a treasure hunter or otherwise known as a bottom dweller. I'm face down, crawling through the mud in total darkness scouring the bottom for anything that has the feel of something interesting. When I come up, I have old bottles and sunglasses tucked in every pocket, ropes and dock lines wrapped around me and mud oozing out everywhere... I usually discard most of my less valuable treasures before I come back on board. Nonetheless, my buddies still call me "Pig Pen". At the end of the dive I may be a little dirty, but I have the best treasures. Not much gets past me down there, I may have my head down most of the time, but I still see a lot more than my dive buddies do.

09-25-2005, 11:12 PM	#15
glennsteely Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mantua, N.J. Posts: 472 Thanks: 90 Thanked 111 Times in 38 Posts	winni divers... I am curious, what are some of the things you have found down there?? My dad and I found a very old anchor when I was a teenager, in Sachem's cove, probably from a barge from the tree farm on Eagle mountain.....the cove has all kinds of trees and logs in it, I have seen those single end floaters you are speaking of in about 30 feet of water in the center of the cove, there is also the remains of a huge dock all the way in the end, alot of it has been removed but the cut off pilings and old boards are still there, good spot for bass fishing.....I would really like to hear about some treasures you have found, this stuff amazes me.... __________________ You have to go out on a limb sometimes, cause that is where the fruit is. You can't get to the fruit from that nice safe spot, clinging to the trunk of the tree......

09-26-2005, 10:34 AM	#16
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Search me... 'Spent a couple of hoursby light 44 on Saturday morn. Use track line and PS search patterns along with an underwater vidio. No luck. I expect that the vidio was a waste of time since the obstruction would be only a few feet under the surface. Any way the passage seems clear. I like Winnipesaukee Divers' idea of an upended log. I have seen that before and with a depth of 12 to 14 feet it would be quite the moving hazard. Possibly if floated off. To where???? Note that west side of the Red and White spar (light #44) sholes up very fast and the markings of that spar would imply good water there. Possible? Misty Blue.

09-27-2005, 06:41 AM	#17
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,931 Thanks: 445 Thanked 604 Times in 340 Posts	Thanks for the Look - See Thanks Misty