Digital TV Conversion

[Just Wonderin]

I've got a question for all you islanders out there...not that we spend that much time watching TV when we're on the island, but we have been content to have 3 very blurry channels out of Maine for years. Now that the digital TV conversion is finally taking place, we're assuming that there's no chance that we'll get any reception. Have any of you come up with solutions for this problem? I know how creative all of you islanders can be...We're on the northeast side of the island and don't think a dish would work...

[wifi]

One place to look is:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

[tis]

I don't know much about this subject but I thought the whole idea was to make the reception for antennas or rabbit ears better not worse. If that is so, why wouldn't you get the Maine stations better? Course you may have to get a new tv or the conversion box if your set is older.

[WINNOCTURN]

I have two of the converter boxes, one Zenith and the other Apex. The Zenith seems to pick up the signle better. The real problem is a good atenna. I have an appartment, Brick Faced, and I have tried two of the RCA Flat Digital antennas. One is amplified, cost $45.00. The amplified rabbit ears works better. The next step is to try the $100.00 one and see if that works. I really do not have any where to put up an outsde antenna at the apartment. On the best day I may get 4 channels and only two stay staedy.

From what I have heared the signal is not that strong, 25 mile range?

Good Luck.

[Island Girl]

I had a flat panel HDTV at the island last summer. The channels were fine in HD.. actually I got an additional channel. I will put the antenna on the roof this year with a remote control rotator. HD reception is very exact so the ability to rotate the antenna will be important. It was so nice to get the HD quality. I still have to buy a coverter box or two for the other TVs in the bedrooms.

IG

[Slickcraft]

Take a look at:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
and put is say the Gilford zip code of 03246. Then you can move the target to your island and zoom in if necessary. On the left is an estimate of the channels you will get after transition. Your antenna situation will make or break the reception but this will let you know the general situation.

[Webbsatwinni]

We bought a small home depot omni-directional (or multi-directional) antenna last year for around $30.00 and mounted it in the roof, we get both the analog and HD channels for the Maine stations. The quality is great and weather does not seem to impact it at all. The best part is after the antenna purchase, it's free.

Here is an interesting site to see what station you can get via antenna, just enter your zipcode and submit it.

www.antennaweb.org/aw/address.aspx

Here are the 03810 results:

[Skip]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't know much about this subject but I thought the whole idea was to make the reception for antennas or rabbit ears better not worse. If that is so, why wouldn't you get the Maine stations better? Course you may have to get a new tv or the conversion box if your set is older.

Actually that is a misconception caused by some of the poorly written public service broadcasts covering the conversion.

One of the primary reasons of this act was to move certain UHF TV transmiiters out of a swath of the 700 Mhz bandwidth to allow new channels for public safety. Part of an overall nationwide plan for first responder radio interoperability and data sharing.

In actuality, as WMUR has correctly reported, the conversion from analog to digital transmission along with a shift from VHF to UHF frequencies results, for a number of reasons, in a smaller reception path footprint.

But if you do receive the digital signal, in most cases you will receive a much better picture/audio signal. In some cases that means that you will need to replace or beef up your present antenna receiving system.

[Audiofn]

Most of the info so far is good. The one thing that I do know beyond what you all have posted is that the broadcasts for the most part are not running at 100% of their output. Most stations are doing this for cost reasons. It is expensive to broadcast both. Hopefully once they make the swap over to digital only it will open up to better reception. You can play around with different tuners and anntennas you will get different results from them all.

[Mink Islander]

So do you pick up 13 too? We seem to have lost it with the conversion. A bit more to the West than you, but per their website, still should be in range. Also per their website, they asked for and got FCC approval to go 100% digital as of the original Feb 09 date so I'm guessing they're broadcasting at full power now. I have a very large roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna on a motor mount -- was top of the line 10 years ago. Not real excited about climbing up there to check my coax connections, or worse, to replace it, but may have to.

[Excalibur]

I hate to tell you Mink Islander, but the one thing the govt has left out, besides the converter box you may need to update your antenna.

Antennas are designed for particular frequencies. They are fractions of the wavelength for the frequency. From my understanding there will be a few stations broadcasting HD on the VHF band. Most will be on up on the UHF band, so depending on your antenna and station your trying to reach maybe the issue.

So the best thing to do is hook up your hdtv and antenna and look at the channels in the coverage area and see what you can pick up. If some have moved off band then you may need to update the antenna and maybe add an amplifier.

some good sites to check out:

http://tvfool.com/

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/catv-ch.html

http://antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

[rick35]

I tried connecting a converter box to our antenna on Bear and didn't find any digital channels. The antenna has been up for 25 years and my thought is that it may need to be replaced. I'm going to start with replacing the cable and then decide on the antenna. It could be that the aiming isn't quite right too. I think digital channels 6 and 9 are operating on UHF frequencies now and will switch back to VHF-high after the conversion. That might help reception. 13 never came in very well so I'm not hopeful about when they go digital. That's too bad as all the good shows are on CBS.

[Island Girl]

I did not receive 13 a couple of weeks ago. After nudging the antenna a bit and rescanning several times I finally got both the analog and digital version. I also had emailed the station and was told I should be able to get the channel. Since the analog channel is still there, they may not be at 100% power. If you Google the channel call letters and digital there is some discussion about having the call the channel to tell them to flip the digital switch back on!

What is great about digital is the quality of the image... it is either on or off, no more lousy signal with a snowy picture. Now I need an antenna rotor... anyone know where I can pick one up (cheap).

As for postion the antenna, just half an inch of rotation can make the difference between reception and absolutely no reception. Keep trying.

IG

[Orion]

With a larger rotatable antenna, it is possible to get stations from cities as far away as Boston, and have a perfect picture. This depends somewhat on where you are on the lake. I know someone on Cow Island that is getting several Boston channels (there is somewhat of a gap in the mountains looking down Alton Bay from there). Lots of good info in this thread. After June 12 changeover date, there will be stronger signals for many stations. But, omindirectional antennae are not good in fringe areas like the Lakes Region. You need a directional antenna and bigger is better.

[rick35]

I thought all the digital channels were UHF which has a weaker signal. I was surprised to find that Channel 6 and 9's current digital channels are UHF but are switching back to VHF-High. I was all set to buy a high gain UHF antenna. Good thing I waited as I would have bought the wrong antenna. Sounds like the antenna I have now might work afterall once I get it pointed correctly. The rotor died last summer and that's about a $75 item at Radio Shack. I'll wait until after the switchover and then decide if I need a new antenna. Sounds like the reception should be ok on South Bear.

[Just Wonderin]

Thanks Slickcraft for the great FCC link. I was able to enter a nearby zip code. Then drag the red marker to my exact location...just as I had feared...Channel 9, 13, and 21 have no signal at our location and Channel 6 and 11 are represented as weak...I don't know if any of you have ever tried to watch a weak digital signal but it's almost painful, the way the picture continues to freeze and the sound stops....

Does anyone know if A TiVo (recording shows at a separate cable location) could be moved to the island home and just playback the recorded shows through the island tv?

[Island Girl]

Originally Posted by Just Wonderin

Thanks Slickcraft for the great FCC link. I was able to enter a nearby zip code. Then drag the red marker to my exact location...just as I had feared...Channel 9, 13, and 21 have no signal at our location and Channel 6 and 11 are represented as weak...I don't know if any of you have ever tried to watch a weak digital signal but it's almost painful, the way the picture continues to freeze and the sound stops....

Does anyone know if A TiVo (recording shows at a separate cable location) could be moved to the island home and just playback the recorded shows through the island tv?

Channel 13 on the FCC site was weak or non-existant and I get it. Yes you can load up the TIVO and bring it. I did that the last few years. Now my problem is an HDTV. I think the Tivo (non-HD) will look crummy. I have not tried it yet.

[Just Wonderin]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

What is great about digital is the quality of the image... it is either on or off, no more lousy signal with a snowy picture.IG

Island Girl, you're right, it's either on or off...and unfortunately for our location on the lake, regardless of our antenna choice, it's off...I'd take a snowy picture all day long over a blank screen....oh well....

[Just Wonderin]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Here is an interesting site to see what station you can get via antenna, just enter your zipcode and submit it.

www.antennaweb.org/aw/address.aspx

This was a great link too! Unfortunately, when I put our location into this web site, it said that "There are no stations predicted to serve this location" What a diplomatic way to say we're out of luck!

[Just Wonderin]

Thanks for answering my TiVo question...no matter who I asked, I kept getting different answers. So, it's good to hear from someone that has actually done it. Let me know how you make out if you do try it with HD.

[Slickcraft]

The estimates on the FCC site should be viewed as just that; estimates. The underlying model uses average terrain conditions between your antenna location and the station transmitter site. What really matters is the specific terrain that is actually between you and the transmitter but it would be unrealistic to include such in this general model. Also atmospheric conditions at any specific time play a role but the general model has to make an average type assumption.

And then it depends on the specific antenna situation that you have.

All of the above also applies to analog TV.

I am going to wait for the June 13th transition and then see what the story is at my specific location when all stations are on the final frequency assignments.

I don’t know if all DTV receivers are using the same chip set, probably not. Some may do a better job of compensating for the multipath resulting from signals reflecting off those hills that are between here and the transmitters. A lot of work has gone into developing adaptive equalizers for DTV receivers but I have not been able to find any brand specific test reviews. So I have yet to choose a brand/model DTV for the island.

[rick35]

In an earlier post I said I thought channels 6 and 9 were switching back to VHF. Unfortunately 6 is not which means that it will be more difficult to receive NBC from south Bear. I hooked up a new antenna last week and could only receive 9 and 34 (Telemundo out of Merrimack). I didn't get anything from Maine on the UHF frequencies. Could be the digital box I bought at WalMart as well as trees blocking the signal.

[Island Girl]

If I move my antenna even 1/2 an inch a channel will be inaccessible. This makes it very difficult to scan for channels. It took me many tries to get 13.

Last week the reception was crummy on all three Maine channels in the bad weather... not a good sign.

I am looking for a good used rotator so I can move the antenna to the roof!

IG

[Orion]

Thanks to the Government procrastination, there's still a bit more time to wait before you give up on reception. After June 12th, the stations should be moved to the new channels and many will increase power at that time. Only then will you know what you'll really be able to get.

[trfour]

until we hear from FLL after the DTV conversion takes place! These days he's getting here with web-tv, kind of the can and string technology of old, and if we should lose him, we could take up a collection to buy him a 90s computer, and training to incorporate him back into the fold, so to speak.
What say?....

[rick35]

I picked up a new converter box at Best Buy today before my second coupon expires later this week. The first one was a Magnavox from Wal-Mart which didn't get very good reviews and may be a reason for my poor reception. I'm hoping the Insignia will work better. The reviews were pretty good.

I tried to google info on power levels as I too understood that stations may not be operating at full power prior to the cut-over. I couldn't find anything but I'm hoping that things will improve after the 12th. I fear that our reception may be limited to ABC and Telemundo.

[oak grove]

For those who are thinking about upgrading from an analog TV to a new DTV, consider the tuner that resides in the TV. Even if you have a good antenna, you'll need a great tuner. After doing a lot of research, I have found that the Vizio TVs have the best tuners. This will help when trying to pick up channels. (Of course, if you are sticking with your analog TV and relying on a converter box, you'll need to get the best converter box to go with the best antenna.)

Disclaimer: I don't work for Vizio, nor do I know anyone who does, but I do own a Vizio now and I love it.

[Audiofn]

Have any of you thought about sling box? I am working on some stuff for over the net transmision with out a computer but so far it is VERY expensive. I currently take a sling box at my home and use a computer at my vacation place. I then take the video out from my computer and run it to the TV. The picture quality is not as good as HDTV but it is good and I get ALL the channels I have at home for a minimal expanse. You do need a fast upload speed at the home and a decent download speed at the vacation location. The faster the speeds the better the picture. We just set this up for one of my customers that has a son in Dubia UAA and he is loving being able to watch the games again.

[wifi]

Audiofn: What connection speed would you consider fast in this application? ie, lower tier DSL and cable modems are usually 128K/256K upload respectively, would that be sufficient for a decent picture or would someone need fios to blast away?

[Island Girl]

I have been using a sling box for years.. never output to the TV though. I had to stop when verizon wireless capped monthly usage to 5GB. It was great... the slingbox is hooked up to my Tivo! From anywhere in the world I can watch TV and Tivo. If you have a nice fast broadband connection it works really well. I started using it with a 150K connection. It was not wonderful, but I got to see and hear tv shows. When verizon went to EVDO speeds and Comcast (my home provider) increased upload speeds, the picture was smooth and reliable. But, alas, verizon has thwarted
that!!!

300k upload from home will deliver a good picture. I can sling at uploads of over 500k these days with a really nice picture.

IG

[Audiofn]

The minimum speed is 256kbs for the regular box but the HD box is 1.5 megs in both directions. As the speed of your provider drops the quality does as well so if you can get the 1.5 you get a very good image. Most providers these days even DSL can accomodate this service/speed requirements as long as you are not VPNing into your office at the same time. If you do not want to go with the computer Slingbox now makes a "Sling Catcher" and you can use that just like a cable box. I have not tried this but I am going to get one soon. What I am now setting up is cable at my house with a matrix switcher so that I will have all my cable content and all my movie content that is located on a server available at the vacation house. When my son asks to watch Nemo I can say no problem and just dial it up. Some cool stuff is becoming available with the new technologies so keep an eye out. The only issue with sling box that I can see so far is the up front costs. If you get the sling box and sling catcher at retail you are looking at about 4-500 bucks. That is only about 7 months of cable service however (for me anyhow) so the pay back is fairly quick.

[Ropetow]

Originally Posted by trfour

until we hear from FLL after the DTV conversion takes place! These days he's getting here with web-tv, kind of the can and string technology of old, and if we should lose him, we could take up a collection to buy him a 90s computer, and training to incorporate him back into the fold, so to speak.
What say?....

Why should we? After all, according to FLL himself, with the Democrats in charge of the White House, both houses of Congress, the NH governorship and both houses of the state legislature....All is wonderful. We're all living in a land of abundant milk and honey, and are serenaded by celestial choirs singing heavenly hosannas, led by Rev. Wright himself. With FLL's pals in charge, nobody needs to lift a finger. Work? Buy something? No way, not with FLL's friends running things. All we have to do is sit back and relax, either on the Meredith shorefront or slopeside at Waterville Valley, and the government will meet our every desire. I'm sure that Nancy or Harry or Terie or Sylvia or Barack or John will take good care of FLL and his computer needs.