Boater education decal law in the works

Knomad · 01-03-2007, 11:38 AM

Note article in the Citizen today:
A Merrimack legislator is sponsoring new legislation that would require out-of-state boaters to obtain a $20 user decal if their vessels aren't already registered in New Hampshire.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...195/-1/CITIZEN

LIforrelaxin · 01-03-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knomad

Note article in the Citizen today:
A Merrimack legislator is sponsoring new legislation that would require out-of-state boaters to obtain a $20 user decal if their vessels aren't already registered in New Hampshire.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...195/-1/CITIZEN

Ok This is getting ridiculous, having to pay to use resources within another state is not American. There have been some references in other threads to having to pay fees to use out of state boats on Sabago, and Lake George. And I have not said much, but this is not a fair practice. The way vehicle registrations are arranged in this county you are supposed to register them in the state in which they are primarily used or you are a resident of, and all other states are to recognize that registration. (Isn't that why NH had to revamp the boat registration back in the 80s). Now if towns and states want to charge fee at boat ramps etc. that I can live with, but don't start telling people that they basically have to re-register thier boat. The state needs to remember that if you keep making vacations more and more expensive eventually people go else where. Now I am not saying the 20 dollars would be a deal breaker, but on top of an outrageous Meals and Room tax, ramp fees, and all the other adders already in place, NH becomes less desirable....I have said it once and I will say it again, NH has to stop looking for quick bandaids, which this is, The legislature needs to sit down and go to work for the people, and figure out to properly organized its budget....(and no this doesn't mean new taxes, this means better accounting)

Woodsy · 01-03-2007, 01:48 PM

I think the SBC decal is a GREAT idea....

However it shouldn't be just out-of-state boats carrying this program! You really don't want to mess too much with the tourism engine. Spreading it out to ALL boats and watercraft lowers the cost to administer the program while increasing the revenue. Providing that it you MUST show a valid/recognized SBC in order to get it for a motorized craft!! The decal will provide a quick visual check for the MP's that the owner of the boat has completed the SBC. (Not neccesarily the driver). NH registered boats should be required to display the decal right next to the registration decal. In order to accomodate people/day trippers/tourists who do not have thier SBC but have a boat, a 14 day temporary the decal could be issued upon completion of the "rental course". Those out-of-state boaters with a valid/recognized SBC would be allowed to purchase the same yearly sticker as a NH registered boat.

In NH we had over 100,000 registered boats... at 15.00 each your looking at a yearly revenue stream of $1,500,000... plus whatever is recieved by out-of-state boaters and canoes & kayaks....

All watercraft, powered or not should be required to display the decal! This should include canoes, kayaks, etc... You could set up a fee structure, The stickers can be different shapes for the different craft types. You only need 3 shapes, one for non-powered craft, one for motorized craft and one for 14 day temporary craft. The stickers should be the same color as that years registration decal. Again, an easy visual for the MP...

With those kinds of numbers you could keep the fees reasonable... $10 for canoes & kayaks etc, $15.00 for motorized craft, $20.00 for out-of-state full year (NH SBC or recognized equivalent), and $25.00 for out-of-state 14 day temp (Rental SBC test required)

You would be able to use the existing network of marinas that currently issue boater registrations so no real cost there to implement. This proposal would keep the fees reasonable, generate a steady yearly renewable revenue and yet not signifigantly impact or single out any one type or group.

I'll leave it up to the legislature as to how best disburse the funds... I do have a problem with a NHLA an blatently obvious discriminatory association getting any of my money....

This is not an unheard of strategy to raise funds for specific marine related programs. In ME and other states you are required to display an extra decal for various reasons. Its a milfoil sticker in ME...

It would be nice if you had to present a valid SBC in order to register your boat in NH, but that is not the case currently.

Woodsy

codeman671 · 01-03-2007, 02:44 PM

I think that for people that have multiple watercraft it might get a bit excessive although I like the overall concept. We have 3 boats, 2 jet skiis and a few non-motorized boats, if we have to pay for a sticker for each it gets a bit much I think. Maybe a flat rate per registrant on all of their craft?

One problem though is just because you are driving a boat with a sticker does not necessarily indicate that you have a SBC. Calling it a "Safe Boating Certificate Decal" may not be the right name or intention for it.

Cal · 01-03-2007, 04:35 PM

It's all about money

LIforrelaxin · 01-03-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal

It's all about money

You got it Cal.... and personally I am just tired of giving the state more money to inapropriately budget. This is a slap happy fix, and I am sorry but NH and many other states, need to stop the slap happy fix attitude...

As for Woody's post, here is some food for thought. Our Boat registrations, are supposed to be funding some of the activities mentioned in the article, so why would I want to be paying a fee twice for something. If they need more money from an in state boater, just raise the darn Registration fee, don't make me get a second sticker. I don't mind paying for things, but lets not make the accounting system so convoluted......

NonVoting Taxpayer · 01-03-2007, 05:35 PM

Woodsy
You are kidding I hope. Why should we who register our boats now in New Hampshire have to pay an additional fee on top of the registration fee we now pay. Didn't we just have to pay $25 to get our boating certificate, now you want us to pay more each year to put another decal on our boats to prove we have the certificate?
Enough is enough. You expect me to have to go and get a decal for my canoe or kayak? You don't even have to have a boating certificate to row a canoe, why get a decal saying the owner passed the test?
If this whole thing is about money, find a way to raise it.

WeirsBeachBoater · 01-03-2007, 07:30 PM

Once the sticker is affixed to the vessel, who is to say the operator is the owner.. The decal would only prove that the person who registered the boat is a safe boating certificate holder. No proof that the people behind the helm are.

Aquadeziac · 01-03-2007, 07:35 PM

Its the same as snomobiles...if you don't belong to a club it costs you an extra $30 per machine at registration time. It pretty much makes you join a club you don't even want to belong to to get a break on multiple registrations.

Then if you whack the out-of-staters on their boats all will be well and good untill other states decide to surcharge NH residents on their waters or on their snow trails. Then the crying and whining will begin. What happened to "reciprocity"? D'oh....I forgot, too big of a word for our lawmakers.

Cal · 01-03-2007, 07:56 PM

Hey , Jersey has no problems like that. A few years ago they simply doubled all the registation fees , none of which go to benefit boaters. I'd love to register my boat in HN and give them they money. It would have saved me $2160. in sales tax

.

Waterbaby · 01-03-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

Woodsy
You are kidding I hope. Why should we who register our boats now in New Hampshire have to pay an additional fee on top of the registration fee we now pay. Didn't we just have to pay $25 to get our boating certificate, now you want us to pay more each year to put another decal on our boats to prove we have the certificate?
Enough is enough. You expect me to have to go and get a decal for my canoe or kayak? You don't even have to have a boating certificate to row a canoe, why get a decal saying the owner passed the test?
If this whole thing is about money, find a way to raise it.

In my husband's and my case, we just paid $50.00 to the State so that we both have our certificates. Do I really need mine? Nope. I think I've driven the boat(s) maybe two or three times in the last fifteen years. Did I want it? Yep. I figured I'd get it now, while we could still do the online course and test, rather than spending time I can't really afford to spend taking a "live" course and test. I do, however, like Woodsy's thought of having to show the SBC(s) to register the boat........ that way, the registration decal serves two purposes: we've legally registered the boat, and at least one of us has our SBC. In our case, both names are on the registration -- in cases like that, perhaps both/all listed owners need to have their SBC. (One more way for the State to make money, of course.) Personally, I don't want to clutter up the bow of my boat with any more stickers than necessary, so I would be dead set against any silly "SBC decal" on that basis alone.

LIforrelaxin · 01-03-2007, 08:27 PM

Calling the sticker an education certificate is a misnomer. No where in the article does it discuss a requirement for this sticker to be the completion of the Boating saftey course. From the outside this sticker is not ment to stand as a visual aid to show that the boater has passed the education requirement. What I get out of this is that the sticker will show that the boater has been informed of the regulations (those that register there boats in NH aknowledge the safety course education law when the registration is signed, it is imprinted on the back), but that he/she will still have to show and have on them a valid boating safety course certificate..... this is simply another attempt to create revenue, to allivate funding problems.... it is another Band aid, on the NH funding flaws.....

Pineedles · 01-03-2007, 08:35 PM

It sounds as if you would all be good candidates for the www.libertarian.org .

This is not the official site but an interpretation of what Libertarianism is, as George Mason U. interprets it. True site is www.libertarianparty.com , I believe their only reason for taxation is for the defense of the country. Pretty far out as far as I'm concerned for why taxes are needed, but on the other hand I really don't see that much interest from terrorists targeting the Lakes Region.

Woodsy · 01-04-2007, 09:22 AM

Here lies the problem....

They need to raise $$$ to pay for some programs that pretty much only boaters benefit from... and by boater I mean all folks that use watercraft, canoeists, kayakers, sailboats, PWC's and motorboaters. Fish & Game is suffering a funding crisis, as is the dam fund and milfoil treatments... we all know the MP's could use a few more $$$.

We have an SBC requirement now, but there is no easy way to insure compliance.

We could require proof of SBC when registering craft in NH... great idea, but doesn't solve any funding issues and it only insures compliance with SBC on NH registered craft...

We could just double the registration fees and then as usual only those with motorized boats registered in NH foot the bill.... the thousands of canoeists, kayakers and out-of-state boaters pay nothing....

We could require all watercraft to be registered... kinda pricey option for canoeists and kayakers and other small currenlty non-registerable craft... I am sure that would go over like a fart in church!

And we still have the problem of insuring compliance with our SBC law....

Almost every other state I have boated in has required the purchase of some sort of access sticker... Lake George has one, so does Sebago! Just about every Federal park has an access fee.

I don't think of this as an extra expense... these are programs that benefit me as a boater directly. They could just as easily tag the extra money into my registration, but this proposal spreads it out among all watercraft users, lowering the cost and still raising the needed revenue. I admit, just because a boat has a sticker, it doesn't mean the driver has thier SBC, but it does transfer the liability to the boat owner should something happen. Its not perfect, nothing ever is and lets face it, you can't please everybody...

Woodsy

Woodsy · 01-04-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

Woodsy
You are kidding I hope. Why should we who register our boats now in New Hampshire have to pay an additional fee on top of the registration fee we now pay. Didn't we just have to pay $25 to get our boating certificate, now you want us to pay more each year to put another decal on our boats to prove we have the certificate?
Enough is enough. You expect me to have to go and get a decal for my canoe or kayak? You don't even have to have a boating certificate to row a canoe, why get a decal saying the owner passed the test?
If this whole thing is about money, find a way to raise it.

NVT...

This whole thing is about $$$... and this is a way to raise it. Its about raising money for programs that DIRECTLY BENEFIT BOATERS! You had a one time fee of $25 for your SBC. I am sure that just broke the bank! If you read my post, you would know that I proposed that you only needed to show your SBC to purchase the sticker for motorized craft! No proof of SBC is required to purchase the sticker for non-motorized craft.

They could just double your boat registration fees and not spread it around to all watercraft!!

Woodsy

onthebay · 01-04-2007, 09:43 AM

Woodsy, in your first post you stated.

"I'll leave it up to the legislature as to how best disburse the funds... I do have a problem with a NHLA an blatently obvious discriminatory association getting any of my money...."

I agree with you regarding giving the money to a special interest group, but thinking that that the legislature would be better suited to spend the money on the lakes as opposed to pumping it into the general fund is naive.

A fee that does not directly go to offset the cost of the state providing a service is a "tax". I can't see this as anything but.

Woodsy · 01-04-2007, 10:43 AM

The decal is not a tax stamp. The bill is pretty specific none of the monies are earmarked for the general fund. For the most part I think the NH legislature has been pretty good with "user fees"... Fish and Game has been soley supported by hunters... even as thier responsibilities have broadened. We use the waterways, we should pay to upkeep them...

IMHO, the best part of the decal is that it should be tied to possession of an SBC...

Woodsy

snowbird · 01-04-2007, 04:01 PM

NH already has a personal property tax on automobiles. Why not on boats?
Lots of untapped monies there. But let's not kid ourselves with the farcical boater ed certificate. That would be like putting a driver's license decal on one's car, besides its registration.

LIforrelaxin · 01-04-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Here lies the problem....

They need to raise $$$ to pay for some programs that pretty much only boaters benefit from...

I agree with this from the point that the need money for programs that only boaters benefit from..... But.... what I hate seeing is that the reason they are looking for additional sources of income is because these programs where never funded correctly before....What has become very appearent to me with NH is that the Legislature has never set up appropriate accounting stuctures....(not that this is something only NH is quilty of) THERE IS NO WAY that from boating and hunting/fishing registrations alone that a state can fund Marine Patrols, Fish and Game, etc.... now we can continue to allow state governments to put slap happy funding fixes in place, or start to complain....and show unhappiness....(believe me I have a state Senator for a nieghbor, and I plan to talk with her this summer)....

For the first time as I write this note I am starting to wonder....as much as NH residents hate the idea....do you realize that with a 1% sales tax, all this conversation disappears! They're going to get the money one way or another, why not do it in a way that effects everyone that lives and visits the state....considering VT, and MA, have 5% and ME. I believe has a 6% sales tax NH still looks good.

jeffk · 01-04-2007, 07:20 PM

Because 1% sales goes to 3% sales. Then a income tax at "only" 1.5 % is added. Then that moves up to 4%. The problem is, once the state starts a money pump (sales and income tax), there's no end of "good causes" that simply must be funded. How do you think that all these other states got up to 5 - 9 % sales AND income taxes. And the sad thing is, they are still having these conversations that THEY don't have enough money. They suck off 10% of their residents income and they STILL don't have enough money. As soon as there is a powerful money source created in Concord there will be an endless stream of special interests and lobbyists to make the case for more money to be spent. What the heck, we only raised the tax by 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%.

I've stated it in other threads, I'll happily pay an increase in boat registration if I have assurance that it will go for boating and I have some idea of what it might be used for. Also, receiving a registration should be contingent on having a boater education certificate. I have no problem with hitting out of staters with a compliance fee and sticker where we can be assured that they have had some boater education AND they understand NH laws that are special (I might even say better) such as the 150 ft rule. That way any boat with a registration or a compliance sticker is at least on the right track for complying with the education requirements. Also, why not include the canoes and kayaks. They are responsible for many man hours of searches for lost boaters. They should be getting some safety education (wear your life jacket, it's the law!!) and chipping in for enforcement costs as well.

Silver Duck · 01-04-2007, 07:31 PM

So long as the money from these stickers is earmarked for boating-related program costs, I have no problem whatever with this.

Nor do I think that it will hurt the tourist industry. I remember back when my Dad and my father-in-law had to get the NH "plates" before bringing their boats up to the lake for vacation, and I never heard a gripe from them about it.

Besides, it's small money...

Silver Duck

Cal · 01-05-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

Because 1% sales goes to 3% sales. Then a income tax at "only" 1.5 % is added. Then that moves up to 4%. The problem is, once the state starts a money pump (sales and income tax), there's no end of "good causes" that simply must be funded. How do you think that all these other states got up to 5 - 9 % sales AND income taxes. And the sad thing is, they are still having these conversations that THEY don't have enough money. They suck off 10% of their residents income and they STILL don't have enough money. As soon as there is a powerful money source created in Concord there will be an endless stream of special interests and lobbyists to make the case for more money to be spent. What the heck, we only raised the tax by 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%.

Jeff , you got that right!!!!!!!! We have it all here plus gambling and high property taxes like you. There's a push to lower property taxes but the politicos have admitted they don't know what to raise to lower the prop tax.

We all know THEY never accept less and live within their budget like we must

.

Woodsy · 01-05-2007, 07:46 AM

JeffK...

Well said! If the cost is spread around to all of those who use the water, it keeps the cost to the user within reason....

LI...

Your a bit off... These programs need to funded and paid for by boaters, all boaters & water users. We directly benefit. To be truthful, I don't care if I have to pay the $$$ as long as I as a boater see a direct benefit. Now if they were slapping me with a fee that was earmarked for the general fund.... well, thats another story!!

Woodsy

NonVoting Taxpayer · 01-05-2007, 07:49 AM

Woodsy
I believe in a pior posting you said

"With those kinds of numbers you could keep the fees reasonable... $10 for canoes & kayaks etc, $15.00 for motorized craft, $20.00 for out-of-state full year (NH SBC or recognized equivalent), and $25.00 for out-of-state 14 day temp (Rental SBC test required)"

I don't see where your prior posting only applied to motorized crafts.
I also don't see where this applies to breaking the bank. It's not the amount, it's about another fee on top of what we already pay. The proposal only talks about out of state boats so we're going around about nothing

MJM · 01-05-2007, 07:59 AM

What about a model something like the snowmobiling clubs? Pay more to register your boat if you don't belong to a club, etc. The clubs do the same as the snowmobile clubs....so the money goes directly to the right place.

Thoughts?

LIforrelaxin · 01-05-2007, 09:59 AM

I pay to registrar my boat where ever I use it the most....(in my case NH)...this is a UNIVERSAL law in all the states....and it is supposed to recipicate just like my car....there is no reason to have to pay a fee to an other state to use my boat....I understand that other areas like lake George have done this...but once people start complaining, the additional fee will disappear, just like those NH plates did in the 80s....lets learn from the past people.......

Now for all you whiners out there about taxes....Answer me this....when was the last time that the Sales tax was raised in Taxachusetts....hummm any guess.... well I lived there for several years.... and for over 20 years (I have no idea when the 5% Tax was instated) it hasn't changed.... now I have no idea about VT (I have only lived there for 8 years) or Maine, but my quess is there taxes have been steady for a long time too....see there is a funny thing about Taxes....they tend to keep up with the economy...the more people make or spend the more that gets collected... Unlike fees...which are constant, and have no variability to keep up with the economy and inflation....but what do I know....But I promise this if the state is allowed to keep putting fees on everything....your going to end up worse off then with a TAX.... I have a modest flotilla....a boat currently at 50$ to register...and if I had to add 10 for my canoe, and 10 for each kayak (X2) .... well that gets me to 80 dollars..... you know with a 1% sales tax you know I would have to spend 8000 dollars to pay that much (or if I only looked at what I am not pay now I would have to spend 3000 dollars to give the state 30)....
Now with those kids of fiqures I would rather see a Tax law instated that defined how the money was to be used.....so that everyone could help pay for the states funding short falls....they are going to get it one way or another...we all agree on that... but I think people need to think about spreading out the burdon....unless.... there is going to be a fee for everything....and my vote for the next fee would be the Child in school fee.....

Woodsy · 01-05-2007, 11:08 AM

LI...

Wow... you just don't get it....

You buy a $25,000 boat in NH... a sales tax free state so you only have to pay your registration fee. In MA, that same boat costs you an extra $1250 because of the 5% sales tax, PLUS your registration fee!

With your 1% sales tax proposal, that same boat would cost an extra $250 in NH. Thats 12.5 years of ownership paying the proposed $20 per year SBC decal. The best part is the decal monies are specifically targeted towards programs that directly benefit you (the boater and watercraft user) and cannot be messed with by the legislature. A sales tax would have go in the general fund and could be shuffled around from year to year as the legislature sees fit...

I say NO THANKS to your sales tax proposal... once you prime and start the money pump, the pump never stops....

I don't really care if they jack my registration the extra $20, or make me buy the decal. As long as they tie it to your SBC, and spread the cost to all watercraft not just power boats or out-of-state boats. I am pretty ok with it.

The advantages of the decal are pretty clear, it can be applied to all watercraft... canoes, kayaks, sailboats and power boats. The decal provides a solid renewable funding source for a bunch of necessary programs. It makes sure that 99.5% of people using the water have been at least minimally educated, It insures that all motorized power boat owners HAVE BEEN EDUCATED and the decal gives the MP a quick visual check to insure the owner of the boat is in compliance with our SBC requirement.

As far as your reprocity argument goes... Thats really only applicable to the ocean. Inland state waterways are subject to whatever fees the people of that state deem necessary.

Woodsy

LIforrelaxin · 01-05-2007, 02:15 PM

Woodsy,

Here is what I will agree on...We disagree...we could go up and down on this for a long time....I have plenty of arguments for my side as you do for yours....

I just hope we agree on one thing....NH has some serious accounting and funding problems....and what ever the answer is... they better get it solved, soon.....

What ever the answer is though residents such as yourself really need to push on the State Congress to justify thier actions....whether its a Fee or a Tax, it can all be reallocated by the stroke of a Pen. A Fee is a Tax in disguise...and it is all an income for the state to use as they see fit.

jeffk · 01-05-2007, 09:57 PM

New Hampshire doesn’t have a funding problem. New Hampshire has a disagreement between the Judicial branch of government which has interpreted the state constitution’s desire for children to receive an adequate education to mean that the state must pay for ALL education. The only way that can be addressed is with some form of broad based funding. The Legislature on the other hand has said that local governments should cover education costs and if they are unable to do so without duress on the community, the state will assist. In this case, the funding needed is much less and might be met without a broad based tax solution.

In a perfect world the Judiciary’s solution would almost eliminate property taxes in substitution for a very limited broad based tax targeted for education. It would probably increase the overall education funding slightly and the tax drain a bit but would largely just reshuffle the money paths.

However, in the real world, no government has ever resisted the seduction of spending our money. The promise of reducing property taxes has been made over and over in other states and it NEVER lasts very long because the state finds that it needs to fund other stuff besides education, forcing communities to hike up property taxes again because everyone is worried about “the children”. They never propose cutting all the junk that no one cares about but always put education on the block because they know people will reluctantly put up the money. And with funding at the state level it’s easier to get away with this hocus pocus.

BTW, snowmobile registrations are no longer reciprocal with other states and I would argue it is more inconvenient to deal with than it is for boats because trails run between states. The snowmobiles keep on sledding (or would if there was any snow

)

I look at a decal as a way to ensure that all people on our waterways are up to speed with our regulations, many of which are unique to NH. If it brings in a few more bucks for boating infrastructure along the way, more to the good.

As an alternative maybe NH should issue safe boater hats to those certified and you are required to wear the hat to be boating on the lake.

SOB · 01-06-2007, 06:42 PM

Instead of wasting everyones time thinking of ways to charge more money:

first register your boat, then take the exam to get your safety license, then pay to get a decal to prove you took the test, and if your out of state pay to use the ramp, plus whatever other fees and taxes are out there..

Just figure out what you need to support boating and split it up between everyone that registers in NH every year (If you live in another state and you use NH waters, then you are already getting hit in your own state) Most of us dont have time to jump through all the hoops. Just figure it out and end it once and for all.

We are going to have to pay for it eventually, so just do it in one clean simple way. Not in 5 different ways!

ApS · 01-08-2007, 06:43 AM

I don't get it either: the SBC doesn't require completion by many usual Winnipesaukee craft.

Why put $20 decals on Hobies, inflatables, windsurfers, paddleboats, Sunfish, rowboats, canoes, under-25HP-outboards and kayaks when a $20 decal doesn't assure anyone that the SBC has been taken?

Granted, the MPs take inordinate time investigating these "lesser" craft, but the SBC requirement for boating education was not to address the misbehaviors of kayaks and sailboats!

At least the sales tax addresses the space that powerboats use on the lake, and the amount of environmental impact. A decal will punish the Winnipesaukee kid who has been given the gift of a canoe—as I was upon high school graduation.

Registration fees properly are the concern of the NH registration fee schedule—based largely on size. (An "Impact-Fee", as it were). The NH fee schedule form can be viewed at every NH boat registration site.

Punishing the Winnipesaukee boater with a canoe and a lean budget goes against what is fair, IMHO.

John A. Birdsall · 01-13-2007, 11:26 AM

let see now, we have a set of numbers on the bow of boats usually accompanied by letters, 3" high if my mind recalls directly, and then their is those NH letters, and a 3" square reg. tag. Now you want to add a decal that says the owner of the boat, not the operator (which is the requirement I think) has a SBC. Now next will be a decal that says your boat passed emissions test, and then another will say you have passed the environmental foliage. and then you realize hey my boat certificate says what color boat I have, but what does that matter NH has my boat cluttered with decals.

NH's boating tax, and property tax gotta go. Keep it simple, put a 3% sales tax on everything, reduce property taxes proportionately, put boat registrations on motorized boats at $50.00 per motor. with 12.50 min. going to the marine patrol No extra decals, no robing just the out of staters.

And Woodsy I can use my boat reg. in NH in any body of water in CT for up to 30 days. I think the same can be said of other states as well. I have heard a problem might exist at Lake George.

Silver Duck · 01-13-2007, 12:07 PM

John

Boats with marine sanitation systems are already required to display DES stickers, though I think that it's a one time inspection. The DES places them on the port side windshield (or always has on my boats.)

Actually, that is something that I strongly agree with. The last thing I would want is to have any dischage from my boat pollute the lake! Besides, the DES inspector is a nice guy, and a pleasure to deal with (though very thorough.)

I thought that the new stickers were only for boats with out of state registrations, so the MP could tell at a glance whether boat was at least owned by someone who had taken a safety course?

Silver Duck

LIforrelaxin · 01-15-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

John

I thought that the new stickers were only for boats with out of state registrations, so the MP could tell at a glance whether boat was at least owned by someone who had taken a safety course?

Silver Duck

This depends on the which sticker you are talking about there are actually two perposals out there.

1) a use sticker for out of state boaters...which is being talked about here

2) There is a push for a enviormental sticker that will have to go on everything from a canoe to a motor boat....for fish and game funding....

the net result is the same the State is trying to fund programs by feeing us to death......

John, thanks for bring up the sales tax, glad to know I am not the only one that think that avenue is a good one to take......

Rayhunt · 01-22-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I don't get it either: the SBC doesn't require completion by many usual Winnipesaukee craft.

Why put $20 decals on Hobies, inflatables, windsurfers, paddleboats, Sunfish, rowboats, canoes, under-25HP-outboards and kayaks when a $20 decal doesn't assure anyone that the SBC has been taken?

Granted, the MPs take inordinate time investigating these "lesser" craft, but the SBC requirement for boating education was not to address the misbehaviors of kayaks and sailboats!

At least the sales tax addresses the space that powerboats use on the lake, and the amount of environmental impact. A decal will punish the Winnipesaukee kid who has been given the gift of a canoe—as I was upon high school graduation.

Registration fees properly are the concern of the NH registration fee schedule—based largely on size. (An "Impact-Fee", as it were). The NH fee schedule form can be viewed at every NH boat registration site.

Punishing the Winnipesaukee boater with a canoe and a lean budget goes against what is fair, IMHO.

I disagree .. Canoes Kayaks and Hobies need to know the rules as much as or more than owners of powerboats.
Let the weekend warriors pay some frieght.

Mark · 01-23-2007, 08:21 AM

How can a New Hampshire registration decal prove compliance with safe boating education? Printing a few of the basic rules on the back of a registration paper means very little. It did not work here in NH before so why should it be expected to work for out of state boaters?

This is purely a revenue generator. Pay the state and get a decal for your boat.

Rayhunt · 01-23-2007, 09:07 AM

Maybe the 20 and the time to take the course will keep some of the uneducated , " just got our first boat" folks from just heading out on the lake to see what she will do.
IMHO this all stems from the speed limit push. Its an effort by the DOT to show that "something" is being done to educate. A step in the right direction

01-03-2007, 11:38 AM	#1
Knomad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Center Tuftonboro Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts	Boater education decal law in the works Note article in the Citizen today: A Merrimack legislator is sponsoring new legislation that would require out-of-state boaters to obtain a $20 user decal if their vessels aren't already registered in New Hampshire. http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...195/-1/CITIZEN

01-03-2007, 01:48 PM	#3
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	I think the SBC decal is a GREAT idea.... However it shouldn't be just out-of-state boats carrying this program! You really don't want to mess too much with the tourism engine. Spreading it out to ALL boats and watercraft lowers the cost to administer the program while increasing the revenue. Providing that it you MUST show a valid/recognized SBC in order to get it for a motorized craft!! The decal will provide a quick visual check for the MP's that the owner of the boat has completed the SBC. (Not neccesarily the driver). NH registered boats should be required to display the decal right next to the registration decal. In order to accomodate people/day trippers/tourists who do not have thier SBC but have a boat, a 14 day temporary the decal could be issued upon completion of the "rental course". Those out-of-state boaters with a valid/recognized SBC would be allowed to purchase the same yearly sticker as a NH registered boat. In NH we had over 100,000 registered boats... at 15.00 each your looking at a yearly revenue stream of $1,500,000... plus whatever is recieved by out-of-state boaters and canoes & kayaks.... All watercraft, powered or not should be required to display the decal! This should include canoes, kayaks, etc... You could set up a fee structure, The stickers can be different shapes for the different craft types. You only need 3 shapes, one for non-powered craft, one for motorized craft and one for 14 day temporary craft. The stickers should be the same color as that years registration decal. Again, an easy visual for the MP... With those kinds of numbers you could keep the fees reasonable... $10 for canoes & kayaks etc, $15.00 for motorized craft, $20.00 for out-of-state full year (NH SBC or recognized equivalent), and $25.00 for out-of-state 14 day temp (Rental SBC test required) You would be able to use the existing network of marinas that currently issue boater registrations so no real cost there to implement. This proposal would keep the fees reasonable, generate a steady yearly renewable revenue and yet not signifigantly impact or single out any one type or group. I'll leave it up to the legislature as to how best disburse the funds... I do have a problem with a NHLA an blatently obvious discriminatory association getting any of my money.... This is not an unheard of strategy to raise funds for specific marine related programs. In ME and other states you are required to display an extra decal for various reasons. Its a milfoil sticker in ME... It would be nice if you had to present a valid SBC in order to register your boat in NH, but that is not the case currently. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-03-2007, 05:35 PM	#7
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	Already Paying registraton fees Woodsy You are kidding I hope. Why should we who register our boats now in New Hampshire have to pay an additional fee on top of the registration fee we now pay. Didn't we just have to pay $25 to get our boating certificate, now you want us to pay more each year to put another decal on our boats to prove we have the certificate? Enough is enough. You expect me to have to go and get a decal for my canoe or kayak? You don't even have to have a boating certificate to row a canoe, why get a decal saying the owner passed the test? If this whole thing is about money, find a way to raise it.

01-03-2007, 07:30 PM	#8
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	Another flaw Once the sticker is affixed to the vessel, who is to say the operator is the owner.. The decal would only prove that the person who registered the boat is a safe boating certificate holder. No proof that the people behind the helm are.

01-03-2007, 07:35 PM	#9
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Its the same as snomobiles...if you don't belong to a club it costs you an extra $30 per machine at registration time. It pretty much makes you join a club you don't even want to belong to to get a break on multiple registrations. Then if you whack the out-of-staters on their boats all will be well and good untill other states decide to surcharge NH residents on their waters or on their snow trails. Then the crying and whining will begin. What happened to "reciprocity"? D'oh....I forgot, too big of a word for our lawmakers. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

01-03-2007, 02:44 PM	#4
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,360 Thanks: 210 Thanked 764 Times in 448 Posts	I think that for people that have multiple watercraft it might get a bit excessive although I like the overall concept. We have 3 boats, 2 jet skiis and a few non-motorized boats, if we have to pay for a sticker for each it gets a bit much I think. Maybe a flat rate per registrant on all of their craft? One problem though is just because you are driving a boat with a sticker does not necessarily indicate that you have a SBC. Calling it a "Safe Boating Certificate Decal" may not be the right name or intention for it.

01-03-2007, 04:35 PM	#5
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	It's all about money

01-03-2007, 07:56 PM	#10
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	Hey , Jersey has no problems like that. A few years ago they simply doubled all the registation fees , none of which go to benefit boaters. I'd love to register my boat in HN and give them they money. It would have saved me $2160. in sales tax .

01-03-2007, 08:27 PM	#12
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,827 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 881 Times in 515 Posts	Here is the thing you are all missing Calling the sticker an education certificate is a misnomer. No where in the article does it discuss a requirement for this sticker to be the completion of the Boating saftey course. From the outside this sticker is not ment to stand as a visual aid to show that the boater has passed the education requirement. What I get out of this is that the sticker will show that the boater has been informed of the regulations (those that register there boats in NH aknowledge the safety course education law when the registration is signed, it is imprinted on the back), but that he/she will still have to show and have on them a valid boating safety course certificate..... this is simply another attempt to create revenue, to allivate funding problems.... it is another Band aid, on the NH funding flaws..... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

01-03-2007, 08:35 PM	#13
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	Join Here It sounds as if you would all be good candidates for the www.libertarian.org . This is not the official site but an interpretation of what Libertarianism is, as George Mason U. interprets it. True site is www.libertarianparty.com , I believe their only reason for taxation is for the defense of the country. Pretty far out as far as I'm concerned for why taxes are needed, but on the other hand I really don't see that much interest from terrorists targeting the Lakes Region.

01-04-2007, 09:22 AM	#14
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	Here lies the problem.... They need to raise $$$ to pay for some programs that pretty much only boaters benefit from... and by boater I mean all folks that use watercraft, canoeists, kayakers, sailboats, PWC's and motorboaters. Fish & Game is suffering a funding crisis, as is the dam fund and milfoil treatments... we all know the MP's could use a few more $$$. We have an SBC requirement now, but there is no easy way to insure compliance. We could require proof of SBC when registering craft in NH... great idea, but doesn't solve any funding issues and it only insures compliance with SBC on NH registered craft... We could just double the registration fees and then as usual only those with motorized boats registered in NH foot the bill.... the thousands of canoeists, kayakers and out-of-state boaters pay nothing.... We could require all watercraft to be registered... kinda pricey option for canoeists and kayakers and other small currenlty non-registerable craft... I am sure that would go over like a fart in church! And we still have the problem of insuring compliance with our SBC law.... Almost every other state I have boated in has required the purchase of some sort of access sticker... Lake George has one, so does Sebago! Just about every Federal park has an access fee. I don't think of this as an extra expense... these are programs that benefit me as a boater directly. They could just as easily tag the extra money into my registration, but this proposal spreads it out among all watercraft users, lowering the cost and still raising the needed revenue. I admit, just because a boat has a sticker, it doesn't mean the driver has thier SBC, but it does transfer the liability to the boat owner should something happen. Its not perfect, nothing ever is and lets face it, you can't please everybody... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-04-2007, 09:43 AM	#16
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Do you think they can Woodsy, in your first post you stated. "I'll leave it up to the legislature as to how best disburse the funds... I do have a problem with a NHLA an blatently obvious discriminatory association getting any of my money...." I agree with you regarding giving the money to a special interest group, but thinking that that the legislature would be better suited to spend the money on the lakes as opposed to pumping it into the general fund is naive. A fee that does not directly go to offset the cost of the state providing a service is a "tax". I can't see this as anything but.

01-04-2007, 10:43 AM	#17
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	The decal is not a tax stamp. The bill is pretty specific none of the monies are earmarked for the general fund. For the most part I think the NH legislature has been pretty good with "user fees"... Fish and Game has been soley supported by hunters... even as thier responsibilities have broadened. We use the waterways, we should pay to upkeep them... IMHO, the best part of the decal is that it should be tied to possession of an SBC... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-04-2007, 04:01 PM	#18
snowbird Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gilford Islander Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Everything's about money NH already has a personal property tax on automobiles. Why not on boats? Lots of untapped monies there. But let's not kid ourselves with the farcical boater ed certificate. That would be like putting a driver's license decal on one's car, besides its registration.

01-04-2007, 07:20 PM	#20
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,130 Thanks: 201 Thanked 421 Times in 239 Posts	Once the gate is open .... Because 1% sales goes to 3% sales. Then a income tax at "only" 1.5 % is added. Then that moves up to 4%. The problem is, once the state starts a money pump (sales and income tax), there's no end of "good causes" that simply must be funded. How do you think that all these other states got up to 5 - 9 % sales AND income taxes. And the sad thing is, they are still having these conversations that THEY don't have enough money. They suck off 10% of their residents income and they STILL don't have enough money. As soon as there is a powerful money source created in Concord there will be an endless stream of special interests and lobbyists to make the case for more money to be spent. What the heck, we only raised the tax by 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%. I've stated it in other threads, I'll happily pay an increase in boat registration if I have assurance that it will go for boating and I have some idea of what it might be used for. Also, receiving a registration should be contingent on having a boater education certificate. I have no problem with hitting out of staters with a compliance fee and sticker where we can be assured that they have had some boater education AND they understand NH laws that are special (I might even say better) such as the 150 ft rule. That way any boat with a registration or a compliance sticker is at least on the right track for complying with the education requirements. Also, why not include the canoes and kayaks. They are responsible for many man hours of searches for lost boaters. They should be getting some safety education (wear your life jacket, it's the law!!) and chipping in for enforcement costs as well.

01-04-2007, 07:31 PM	#21
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	So long as the money from these stickers is earmarked for boating-related program costs, I have no problem whatever with this. Nor do I think that it will hurt the tourist industry. I remember back when my Dad and my father-in-law had to get the NH "plates" before bringing their boats up to the lake for vacation, and I never heard a gripe from them about it. Besides, it's small money... Silver Duck

01-05-2007, 07:46 AM	#23
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	JeffK... Well said! If the cost is spread around to all of those who use the water, it keeps the cost to the user within reason.... LI... Your a bit off... These programs need to funded and paid for by boaters, all boaters & water users. We directly benefit. To be truthful, I don't care if I have to pay the $$$ as long as I as a boater see a direct benefit. Now if they were slapping me with a fee that was earmarked for the general fund.... well, thats another story!! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-05-2007, 07:49 AM	#24
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	Woodsy I believe in a pior posting you said "With those kinds of numbers you could keep the fees reasonable... $10 for canoes & kayaks etc, $15.00 for motorized craft, $20.00 for out-of-state full year (NH SBC or recognized equivalent), and $25.00 for out-of-state 14 day temp (Rental SBC test required)" I don't see where your prior posting only applied to motorized crafts. I also don't see where this applies to breaking the bank. It's not the amount, it's about another fee on top of what we already pay. The proposal only talks about out of state boats so we're going around about nothing

01-05-2007, 07:59 AM	#25
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	What about a model something like the snowmobiling clubs? Pay more to register your boat if you don't belong to a club, etc. The clubs do the same as the snowmobile clubs....so the money goes directly to the right place. Thoughts?

01-05-2007, 09:59 AM	#26
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,827 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 881 Times in 515 Posts	Ok Here is the thing on registraring a boat. I pay to registrar my boat where ever I use it the most....(in my case NH)...this is a UNIVERSAL law in all the states....and it is supposed to recipicate just like my car....there is no reason to have to pay a fee to an other state to use my boat....I understand that other areas like lake George have done this...but once people start complaining, the additional fee will disappear, just like those NH plates did in the 80s....lets learn from the past people....... Now for all you whiners out there about taxes....Answer me this....when was the last time that the Sales tax was raised in Taxachusetts....hummm any guess.... well I lived there for several years.... and for over 20 years (I have no idea when the 5% Tax was instated) it hasn't changed.... now I have no idea about VT (I have only lived there for 8 years) or Maine, but my quess is there taxes have been steady for a long time too....see there is a funny thing about Taxes....they tend to keep up with the economy...the more people make or spend the more that gets collected... Unlike fees...which are constant, and have no variability to keep up with the economy and inflation....but what do I know....But I promise this if the state is allowed to keep putting fees on everything....your going to end up worse off then with a TAX.... I have a modest flotilla....a boat currently at 50$ to register...and if I had to add 10 for my canoe, and 10 for each kayak (X2) .... well that gets me to 80 dollars..... you know with a 1% sales tax you know I would have to spend 8000 dollars to pay that much (or if I only looked at what I am not pay now I would have to spend 3000 dollars to give the state 30).... Now with those kids of fiqures I would rather see a Tax law instated that defined how the money was to be used.....so that everyone could help pay for the states funding short falls....they are going to get it one way or another...we all agree on that... but I think people need to think about spreading out the burdon....unless.... there is going to be a fee for everything....and my vote for the next fee would be the Child in school fee..... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

01-05-2007, 11:08 AM	#27
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,949 Thanks: 80 Thanked 969 Times in 432 Posts	LI... Wow... you just don't get it.... You buy a $25,000 boat in NH... a sales tax free state so you only have to pay your registration fee. In MA, that same boat costs you an extra $1250 because of the 5% sales tax, PLUS your registration fee! With your 1% sales tax proposal, that same boat would cost an extra $250 in NH. Thats 12.5 years of ownership paying the proposed $20 per year SBC decal. The best part is the decal monies are specifically targeted towards programs that directly benefit you (the boater and watercraft user) and cannot be messed with by the legislature. A sales tax would have go in the general fund and could be shuffled around from year to year as the legislature sees fit... I say NO THANKS to your sales tax proposal... once you prime and start the money pump, the pump never stops.... I don't really care if they jack my registration the extra $20, or make me buy the decal. As long as they tie it to your SBC, and spread the cost to all watercraft not just power boats or out-of-state boats. I am pretty ok with it. The advantages of the decal are pretty clear, it can be applied to all watercraft... canoes, kayaks, sailboats and power boats. The decal provides a solid renewable funding source for a bunch of necessary programs. It makes sure that 99.5% of people using the water have been at least minimally educated, It insures that all motorized power boat owners HAVE BEEN EDUCATED and the decal gives the MP a quick visual check to insure the owner of the boat is in compliance with our SBC requirement. As far as your reprocity argument goes... Thats really only applicable to the ocean. Inland state waterways are subject to whatever fees the people of that state deem necessary. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-05-2007, 02:15 PM	#28
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,827 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 881 Times in 515 Posts	Agree to Disagree Woodsy, Here is what I will agree on...We disagree...we could go up and down on this for a long time....I have plenty of arguments for my side as you do for yours.... I just hope we agree on one thing....NH has some serious accounting and funding problems....and what ever the answer is... they better get it solved, soon..... What ever the answer is though residents such as yourself really need to push on the State Congress to justify thier actions....whether its a Fee or a Tax, it can all be reallocated by the stroke of a Pen. A Fee is a Tax in disguise...and it is all an income for the state to use as they see fit. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

01-05-2007, 09:57 PM	#29
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,130 Thanks: 201 Thanked 421 Times in 239 Posts	Not money problem, political battle New Hampshire doesn’t have a funding problem. New Hampshire has a disagreement between the Judicial branch of government which has interpreted the state constitution’s desire for children to receive an adequate education to mean that the state must pay for ALL education. The only way that can be addressed is with some form of broad based funding. The Legislature on the other hand has said that local governments should cover education costs and if they are unable to do so without duress on the community, the state will assist. In this case, the funding needed is much less and might be met without a broad based tax solution. In a perfect world the Judiciary’s solution would almost eliminate property taxes in substitution for a very limited broad based tax targeted for education. It would probably increase the overall education funding slightly and the tax drain a bit but would largely just reshuffle the money paths. However, in the real world, no government has ever resisted the seduction of spending our money. The promise of reducing property taxes has been made over and over in other states and it NEVER lasts very long because the state finds that it needs to fund other stuff besides education, forcing communities to hike up property taxes again because everyone is worried about “the children”. They never propose cutting all the junk that no one cares about but always put education on the block because they know people will reluctantly put up the money. And with funding at the state level it’s easier to get away with this hocus pocus. BTW, snowmobile registrations are no longer reciprocal with other states and I would argue it is more inconvenient to deal with than it is for boats because trails run between states. The snowmobiles keep on sledding (or would if there was any snow ) I look at a decal as a way to ensure that all people on our waterways are up to speed with our regulations, many of which are unique to NH. If it brings in a few more bucks for boating infrastructure along the way, more to the good. As an alternative maybe NH should issue safe boater hats to those certified and you are required to wear the hat to be boating on the lake.

01-06-2007, 06:42 PM	#30
SOB Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pawtucket, RI Posts: 31 Thanks: 3 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	It's all about money Instead of wasting everyones time thinking of ways to charge more money: first register your boat, then take the exam to get your safety license, then pay to get a decal to prove you took the test, and if your out of state pay to use the ramp, plus whatever other fees and taxes are out there.. Just figure out what you need to support boating and split it up between everyone that registers in NH every year (If you live in another state and you use NH waters, then you are already getting hit in your own state) Most of us dont have time to jump through all the hoops. Just figure it out and end it once and for all. We are going to have to pay for it eventually, so just do it in one clean simple way. Not in 5 different ways!

01-08-2007, 06:43 AM	#31
ApS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro Posts: 5,788 Thanks: 2,085 Thanked 742 Times in 532 Posts	Not Getting it... I don't get it either: the SBC doesn't require completion by many usual Winnipesaukee craft. Why put $20 decals on Hobies, inflatables, windsurfers, paddleboats, Sunfish, rowboats, canoes, under-25HP-outboards and kayaks when a $20 decal doesn't assure anyone that the SBC has been taken? Granted, the MPs take inordinate time investigating these "lesser" craft, but the SBC requirement for boating education was not to address the misbehaviors of kayaks and sailboats! At least the sales tax addresses the space that powerboats use on the lake, and the amount of environmental impact. A decal will punish the Winnipesaukee kid who has been given the gift of a canoe—as I was upon high school graduation. Registration fees properly are the concern of the NH registration fee schedule—based largely on size. (An "Impact-Fee", as it were). The NH fee schedule form can be viewed at every NH boat registration site. Punishing the Winnipesaukee boater with a canoe and a lean budget goes against what is fair, IMHO. __________________ Every MP who enters Winter Harbor will pass by my porch of 67 years...

01-13-2007, 11:26 AM	#32
John A. Birdsall Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norwich, CT Posts: 599 Thanks: 27 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	decals let see now, we have a set of numbers on the bow of boats usually accompanied by letters, 3" high if my mind recalls directly, and then their is those NH letters, and a 3" square reg. tag. Now you want to add a decal that says the owner of the boat, not the operator (which is the requirement I think) has a SBC. Now next will be a decal that says your boat passed emissions test, and then another will say you have passed the environmental foliage. and then you realize hey my boat certificate says what color boat I have, but what does that matter NH has my boat cluttered with decals. NH's boating tax, and property tax gotta go. Keep it simple, put a 3% sales tax on everything, reduce property taxes proportionately, put boat registrations on motorized boats at $50.00 per motor. with 12.50 min. going to the marine patrol No extra decals, no robing just the out of staters. And Woodsy I can use my boat reg. in NH in any body of water in CT for up to 30 days. I think the same can be said of other states as well. I have heard a problem might exist at Lake George.

01-13-2007, 12:07 PM	#33
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	John Boats with marine sanitation systems are already required to display DES stickers, though I think that it's a one time inspection. The DES places them on the port side windshield (or always has on my boats.) Actually, that is something that I strongly agree with. The last thing I would want is to have any dischage from my boat pollute the lake! Besides, the DES inspector is a nice guy, and a pleasure to deal with (though very thorough.) I thought that the new stickers were only for boats with out of state registrations, so the MP could tell at a glance whether boat was at least owned by someone who had taken a safety course? Silver Duck

01-23-2007, 08:21 AM	#36
Mark Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 59 Thanks: 7 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How does this work? How can a New Hampshire registration decal prove compliance with safe boating education? Printing a few of the basic rules on the back of a registration paper means very little. It did not work here in NH before so why should it be expected to work for out of state boaters? This is purely a revenue generator. Pay the state and get a decal for your boat.

01-23-2007, 09:07 AM	#37
Rayhunt Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gilford NH Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Great Maybe the 20 and the time to take the course will keep some of the uneducated , " just got our first boat" folks from just heading out on the lake to see what she will do. IMHO this all stems from the speed limit push. Its an effort by the DOT to show that "something" is being done to educate. A step in the right direction