Ames Farm Being Sued

[mcdude]

Ames Farm Inn being Sued by Town of Gilford

Ames Farm Inn named in suit


The town is taking the owners of Ames Farm Inn to court, alleging that much of the expansion of the lakefront resort done over much of the past two decades occurred without necessary town permission.

In action filed in Belknap County Superior Court the town alleged that many of the Ames Farms Inn and Resorts operations have expanded and added to illegally, having done so without any official approval from the town.

Court documents show that the town is alleging four major violations: Improper expansion of parking and boat storage areas, the addition of eight docks, renting dock space to third parties, including businesses, and holding weekly fishing derbies open to the public.

See COMPLETE ARTICLE here.....

[Formula260SS]

That's not good news, Ames is one of the few places that offers a good access point to the lake for the general public. I have been going to Ames for many years and I have not seen any major changes, some minor but for the town to sue seems strange.

One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public, places like that are pretty much non existant and would be a great loss to loose any of what they offer. Hopefully they can straighten it all out.

[Weirs guy]

"...alleging that much of the expansion of the lakefront resort done over much of the past two decades occurred without necessary town permission."

So let me get this straight, the town alleges this has been happening, in plain sight from a major road under there noses, for the past two decades??



I smell an agenda!

[GWC...]

One has to wonder
how many permits were required
for George Ames
to purchase the Union Meetinghouse
and
bestow it upon Gilford's historical society?

http://www.gilfordhistoricalsociety..../buildings.htm

[rickstr66]

I'm one of those Bass fishing guys. There is definitly an agenda here. There has been a long standing beef with a few home owners in the general area of Ames farm concerning Bass Tournaments. Bass Tournamenst have been going out of Ames farm for as long as I remember (early 90's). One of those few home owners is an attorney. He found some abscure law that says you can't hold an event "open to the public". 1st off about 95% of those tournament are not "open to the public" You must be a member of the organization running the tournament to enter. Because Don Ames didn't buckle under this persons pressure, this guy is out to get Don Ames. At the end of this summer Don informed the bass fishing crowd that we could no longer hold events out of his property.
These people were met with a couple of years ago. To appease them, tournaments were started later and moved thier starting point out away from shore. Weigh ins were staggered so as to not have too many boats in one area. All for naught. These people still arn't satisfied.
All the other stuff is just more piling on by these individuals.
It's a shame. Don Ames has always been a great person. The property has been there forever.
Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze!!!

[Lake Lady 6]

There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.

Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.

If the reporting in the newspaper is correct Ames Farm did not obtain the proper permits for the changes they made. Everyone must apply for permits [before performing the work. Why does this make you feel that this is "more piling on" by the town?

Hopefully it will work out for all.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze!!!

I only wish I had that problem

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Lake Lady 6

There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.

Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.

If the reporting in the newspaper is correct Ames Farm did not obtain the proper permits for the changes they made. Everyone must apply for permits [before performing the work. Why does this make you feel that this is "more piling on" by the town?

Hopefully it will work out for all.

If what you speak of is true, this quote and the one before about the guy that is a lawyer, and all this was going on before he moved there, then he has no gripe as he moved into the problem, again if this is the case.
I moved into my cottage on Paugus Bay and every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night I have to deal with Club OG and the bass ratling my bed, keeping me up to late because I cannot sleep from the noise, and the sreeching tires at 1:30/2 and the screaming. There is nothing I can do they were a nightclub there long before I moved in, but at the same time they are violating the noise ordinance for the towns of Gilford and Laconia when I speak to the towns about it they just tell me to call the police and have it documented and eventually something might happen. If you read the town ordinances they are in clear violation and the towns have let them be this way for years, there is nothing I can do about it I was told.
Maybe I should sue them

[Mr. V]

The point is not that someone dislikes Ames' operation; the point is that Ames is alleged to be in violation of the law, and has been for some time.

Is there some form of "grandfather law" applicable to shield him?

I doubt it.

What, just because he's ignored land use restrictions for twenty years, that makes it alright?

Maybe we should all blow off the law and do what we please.

Yeah, let's put a brothel at the Weirs, a casino in Lake Shore Park, a gravel mine and cement factory on Diamond Island, and oil wells everywhere.

Absurd?

Certainly.

People pay a lot of money to buy and keep their little slice of lakefront heaven, and they don't appreciate it when people diminish their enjoyment so that they can make a profit via nonconforming commercial activity.

It's just plain wrong.

Laws are meant to be obeyed.

The fact that an aggrieved complainant happens to be an attorney is irrelevant.

Let the judge decide who is right, and who is wrong.

This matter will not be resolved in the court of public opinion.

[Dick]

Originally Posted by Lake Lady 6

There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.

Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.

When people buy lakeshore property that is adjacent to a public park (makes no difference if that park consists of grass or water), they should go into the purchase with the realization that the public is going to want to use their park (gasp!). Some of the public will even play music and make some noise (what a surprise). If you buy a home adjacent to a park with a ball field, you shouldn't complain when the kids hit the ball into your yard. Nor should you be able to sneak in a petition (because no one knew about it) to close that area of the park from any ball playing.

When people put a dock into a public water park, they should not be surprised when bass anglers fish the public water that their dock is in.

The lake belongs to everyone . . . equally. I pick up the impression that you do not like bass boats or bass tournaments. Do you think we should restrict them in some way . . . e.g., don't let them take off to go fishing until after 9:00 AM -- after most lakeshore property owners have had their first cup of coffee? Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?

If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Yeah, let's put a brothel at the Weirs, a casino in Lake Shore Park, a gravel mine and cement factory on Diamond Island, and oil wells everywhere.

don't forget the cell phone towers...

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

...The fact that an aggrieved complainant happens to be an attorney is irrelevant.

Let the judge decide who is right, and who is wrong...

Boy, all these years in law enforcement makes me a jaded individual.

Somehow I just don't get a warm & fuzzy feeling when I imagine one lawyer sitting in judgement of another!

[Heaven]

Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?

If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country

You are not apples to apples. It sounds like the business has expanded it's operated ILLEGALLY, so yes that make it illegal.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Dick

When people buy lakeshore property that is adjacent to a public park (makes no difference if that park consists of grass or water), they should go into the purchase with the realization that the public is going to want to use their park (gasp!). Some of the public will even play music and make some noise (what a surprise). If you buy a home adjacent to a park with a ball field, you shouldn't complain when the kids hit the ball into your yard. Nor should you be able to sneak in a petition (because no one knew about it) to close that area of the park from any ball playing.

When people put a dock into a public water park, they should not be surprised when bass anglers fish the public water that their dock is in.

The lake belongs to everyone . . . equally. I pick up the impression that you do not like bass boats or bass tournaments. Do you think we should restrict them in some way . . . e.g., don't let them take off to go fishing until after 9:00 AM -- after most lakeshore property owners have had their first cup of coffee? Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?

If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country.

Dick:

There is a difference between folks using a park and a hundred or so Bass Boats taking off at full throttle at the crack of dawn. I think folks need to compromise and maybe getting rid of the Bass tournaments is a good place to start.

[Dick]

You want to ban bass tournaments? You are kidding . . . right? . . . right?

The vast majority of bass tournaments are bass clubs. The average size club in NH is 14 members which means there are 7 boats involved. There are only a few tournaments that have as many as 79 boats . . . none that I know of with 100 boats.

Would you ban bass tournaments of any size . . . or with 14 boats . . . or ? How about other fishing derbies . . . should we try to get rid of them too?

What else would you like to ban? How about boats with big displacment hulls? Of course there is already a plan afoot to get rid of the big performance boats and drive them into the ocean.

[fatlazyless]

Something tells me that in two years time the Ames property will all be owned by a developer who will divide it all up into 1/2 acre lots for owners who can afford to build 11rm-3bth-3crgarg- wf w/dock, vacation homes.

Attorney fees, town penalties, and huge local property taxes will just be too much.


And then someone on this forum will reply that replacing the Ames Farm with a new homes subdivision is the 'highest & best use.' Funny how 'highest and best' can turn out to be' highest and worst use.'

[Woodsy]

The town is alleging for the past 20 years or so Ames Farm has been operating somehwat illegally...

20 years later the town has a gripe? Who is kidding who?

The Ames family has been very generous to the town of Gilford. They pay an exorbitant amount of taxes, they have donated property etc.. Who cares if he stores boats on his property and hosts fishing tournaments? If thats what it takes to keep the property un developed and as nice as it is, then so be it!

I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...

In all seriousness, tread lightly and be careful what you wish for. I think the weekend Bass tourney and some noisy boats beats a 300+ condo development hands down. The town should grandfather the existing operation as it is, and just make him get the req'd permits and variances.

Woodsy

[jrc]

I've been watching a similar battle in Hollis for the last few years. People built around a shooting club. The club has been there for 40 years but the new neighbors don't like the noise. The neighbors get a lawyer, do some digging. They find that the club might have cut some corners on some permits many years ago. Lo and behold the club is shutdown. Lots of lawyers and courts, it's open again. More lawyers and court and it's closed. Looks like the club is out of money so it will probably stay closed.

I'm oversimplifying this to make a point:

The people with the deeper pockets always win.

[BroadHopper]

I remember a battle in Hudson, NH many years ago. A housing development went up next to the Hudson Speedway. The new neighbors wanted to shut down the speedway because of noise, air pollution, traffic. You name it. The judge ruled that the speedway was there first and that the new neighbors knew that the place exists. So they cannot shut down the speedway as it was there first.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Dick

What else would you like to ban?

Hows about banning people from moving "here" because they like it "here" and then trying to change "here"? I wonder if that would pass?

Looks like we've got another classic case of some of us thinking that THEIR lake should be used for quiet picnic's and sail boats, and that anything above a whisper is an inconvenience to THEM.

[John A. Birdsall]

I don't see any big changes in Ames Farm for more than 45 years. I guess you could say that he has more boat storage on his property then he used to have. So I don't see any big or even small problem with that. Now as to the noise that them fishermen make. I have a suggestion, put some oil or grease on them fishing reels and the noise will not bother some people. Stay within the law with your boats recall the headway speed and 150' rule. Should not be a problem.

On the other hand would you like to be a fish and eating them poor worms that were doing nobody any harm? Spare the rod and saave the fish!
I think you could have a nut on both ends of the rod and have a Bud.

[Just Sold]

Did the Town of Gilford try and work with the Ames Family to get the proper permits, review with them the improper changes and violations. Did the town, in good faith, attempt to work things out before taking legal action????? That does not seem to be addressed here. I wonder what happened before the legal action took place.

"First things First the if they did not comply and laws, ordinances etc. were violated take appropriate action but always try and work with the property owner."

I do not have any problem with what I have seen going on at Ames Farm. I also have not used Ames Farm and its facilities. I have only been there one time a few years ago and my visit was very pleasant. I found Mr. Ames and his staff very friendly and accomodating.

It is refreshing that there is still a large privately owned parcel on this side of the lake that is not over crowded and so dense with condos or other development that the view from the water and road are lost.

To those who cry baby about the Ames's uses of their property I say you are the ones who would probably complain about your neighbors even in your home away from the lake. Seen it before and this rings of that type of situation to me. JMHO!!!!

[Rose]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I don't see any big changes in Ames Farm for more than 45 years.

It depends on your definition of big.

[xltRod]

Originally Posted by Rose

- remodel/expansion of the dining room/kitchen
- AC added to the dining room
- second bathroom added to dining room
- porch on front door (the one facing the street) removed
- ramp added for handicapped access to restaurant
- dinner went from one selection to full menu
- alcohol service
- discontinue alcohol service
- discontinue dinner service
- movies no longer shown in barn Saturday nights
- store expanded
- driveway from just past apple tree down to summer house paved
- several houses across the street converted from rooms to apartments
- Girls' cabin (lodging for non-local waitresses) stopped being used for that purpose, empty for years, remodeled to accomodate Donald's security business, since remodeled for rental to guests
- expanded boat storage in field
- gas sales discontinued
- boat rental discontinued (a "ski boat" at any rate)
- boat ramp added
- parking lot for trucks/trailers added in field
- fishing tournaments added
- cabin 17 added
- finger docks between ramps and main dock added
- diving board removed (can you guess why?)
- boat lift for Donald's boat added
- changes in sewer and water systems
- change in number of owners
- probably many more that I don't know about

Oh the horror!!!

[Rose]

Originally Posted by xltRod

Oh the horror!!!

Just making the point that there have been many changes over the years, not all for the better. It hasn't been a static entity. Perhaps if it were part of your personal history, you'd give a hoot.

There are a lot of misconceptions and misinformation in this thread, one of them being that the Ames branch of the family that owns The Farm purchased the building for the Thompson-Ames Society...they didn't.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

"...Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze...!!!

The word "noise" appears thirteen times in this thread so far. It's remarkable how little empathy comes from abusive traffic to those awakened by it.

And then they all wonder why they get "the bum's rush" off the lake.

[rickstr66]

Like I said in my original post. ALL of the bass fishing organizations and Don Ames worked with this group of people. We started our tournaments later and out further (by the 2 black markers).
Like someone else said 98% of bass tournaments have less then 15 boats. There are probably a handfull (5) "big" tournaments a year. None over 80 boats. These events are especially aware of the situation and take extra care to be considerate.
The start of a bass tournament with 15 boats typically lasts less then 5 minutes. Numbers are drawn and boats leave the area in order of the number drawn. A boat cannot take off till the boat infront of them is on plane and a safe distance away. Like I said, it takes about 5 minutes to do, then we are gone and not to return till later in the afternoon.
Not sure if NH has a "quiet ordanance" but where I live, people can start working outdoors at 7 am. I.E running a lawn mower, chain saw or do construction (constant noise that does not go away in 5,10, 15 minutes).
As far as parking goes at Ames, what is the difference if 50 pleasure craft of all types show up there and park or 50 Bass boats do? I fished my 1st bass tournament out of Ames farm in 1992. They were going out of there long before then.
Who is to say what and when noise is unacceptable. I could argue that all boat traffic must stop at lunch and dinner times as to not disturb my family while we dine at our picnic table.
Whats next? Outlawing birds ? Don't you just hate those chirping birds outside your window at the crack of dawn?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...

Woodsy

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.

That all sounds fantastic for the Ames family, but what if the town and state is found to be correct in what they write up and they put fines and/or requests for making things back to the way they were and if the owner doesn't then state and town can stick liens on the property and then "No Sale" and possible cease and desist all activities involved in complaints.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres.

Do you seriously think he hasn't considered doing so?

FWIW, it could be that all this will blow over and a "win-win" situation might result if he responds reasonably to the suit, hires a good lawyer, and agrees to some form of legal compromise.

Maybe.

Had Ames Farm bothered to "do the right thing" in the beginning and attempted to go through the permitting process, none of this drama would be happening.

Then again, perhaps he/they knew that the chosen actions would not be allowed but the decision was made to go ahead anyway: should such chutzpah be permitted?

The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation.

After all, government is no more than "We, the People" taking collective action in a representative capacity.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by idigtractors

...but what if...

Wow!

Hey folks...but what if...we all take a breather and before we speculate any further we let the Ames family follow the right to file a response to allegations that may or may not be true?

[idigtractors]

That's the best thing said in 30 some odd threads.

[Woodsy]

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

Just a reminder that the neighbor/abutter to the Ames Farm is himself an attorney. Opposing an attorney in this type of an argument is very challenging because they have unlimited time, motivation, and intellectual resources to research and pursue their goal with no $200./hour legal bills. For the neighboring attorney abutter, it can become sort of a hobby as they sharpen and practice their legal skils in their own self-effort.

Lake Winnipesaukee has been a happy bass tournament and happy speed boat venue for years, so some type of compromise needs to be worked out by all sides. When you litigate, the lawyers become the 'reel' winner so it's better to work out a solution through a compromise..

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.

My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!

Woodsy

Thanks, Woodsy.....This is my point as well.

[joe]

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.


and i am not an lawyer either

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

[joe]

Originally Posted by joe

ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.


and i am not an lawyer either

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

[joe]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by joe

i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

[Waterbaby]

I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Waterbaby

I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?

Uh-oh....

Here we go, speculatin' again.

Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name?

[joe]

Originally Posted by Skip

Uh-oh....

Here we go, speculatin' again.

Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name?

hey skip.
if you lived beside the ames farm i wounder if you would have the same attitude you post, i feel that any person is allowed to to what they wont to do with there property as long as it is within the law that you and i have to live by


joe

[joe]

Originally Posted by Waterbaby

I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?

you are so wright on that statment........

[joe]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Inquiring minds need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by joe

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

Inquiring minds still need to know...

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by joe

...lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word...

No Joe, the town does not have the last word. That right is reserved for our judicial system and only after both parties have been allowed due process to make their respective cases.

Let me repeat that Joe, the Ames family have a right to due process.

Mcdude brought forward an important issue that has an impact on the Lakes Region and one of its better known families. It has made us aware of a serious situation and allowed those of us interested to have a means of following this issue as it moves forward. Comments regarding that process and making us aware of new developments in the case are fair and pertinent.

Speculation as to what the family's thought process may have been or outright accusations that laws have been broken when none of us have even seen charges, let alone the results of mediation or a hearing, are what I believe an uneccesary attack made behind the anonymity of the internet.

No Joe, I do not live beside the accused. But if I did and I thought I had a real case I would keep my trap closed and allow the judicial process and the rights of the accused to move forward the way our State & Federal constitution allow.

Why?

Because next time it could be me (or you) and I would hope to expect the same decency from my fellow citizens!

[gravy boat]

Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd.

I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation".

If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience.

GB

[secondcurve]

Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by mcdude

don't forget the cell phone towers...

What cell towers????

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by Skip

Uh-oh....

Here we go, speculatin' again.

Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name?

I think that without speculation, this forum would be awfully dull and hardly worth reading. It is part of human nature and every news outlet I can think of.
Your comment, "perhaps you have additional insight" sounds an awful lot like good old speculation to me.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

...I think that without speculation, this forum would be awfully dull and hardly worth reading. It is part of human nature and every news outlet I can think of...

Very true.

But there is a very thin line that separates idle everyday speculation from potentially harmful gossip. In my humble opinion that line has been needlessly crossed in several preceding posts.

Why the rush to accusation or judgement? We have a system in place that will eventually supply the answers some of us appear to want, can we show a little patience and let that process work before someone inadvertently causes damage to an innocent party?

This thread reminds me of all the times I've read when folks complain the print media runs a front page story when an individual is accused of wrong doing, and somewhere down the road when the charges are downgraded or dismissed the resulting story is buried on page 39!

[fatlazyless]

Now, there's at least three different ways to look at the Ames Farm situation and as you know, Ames Farm has been there for over one hundred years.

For the Ames family, they are under the gun every year to figure out a way to feed the always increasing property tax monster. They probably wonder how, each year, they can afford to keep from having to break up and sell off sections of their farm property.

For the town of Gilford, they need the money to pay for everything, like salaries, the school system, a new high school, library and police station.

For the neighbors, they want to be able to enjoy their waterfront property as they themselves pay relatively big property taxes, but no where near as much as Ames..

And, on the waterfront, most of the assessed property value is usually in the land, and not in the buildings.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by idigtractors

What cell towers????

see THIS THREAD

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by joe

a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

[wifi]

I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind:

1) Statute of Limitations
2) Laches

both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).

[joe]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

[joe]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

no i didnt on all of the questions.....................................

[Rose]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I posted the list of changes because someone had posted there hadn't been many changes at The Farm over the past 45 years, which is incorrect. I was not indicating whether or not the changes needed permission. I'm sure some did and some didn't, depending on when the changes were made. Don't put words in my mouth.

It's very easy for people to bandy this topic about when they aren't directly related to the situation. That family and that place is part of my heritage and it's very difficult to see this situation unfold and for people to take a side when they really know nothing about what's going or the individual(s) involved.

[fatlazyless]

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving pancake breafast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Polce Dept voted to join the Teamser's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

what dose that statment have to do with not obeying the ruels

[fatlazyless]

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct case and effect situation.

look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the papers to find out all the facts before you take sides

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by joe

look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the pappers to find out all the facks before you take sides

By the above qoute, it appears that you are getting a bit upset and the fingers are going faster than the brain.

[fatlazyless]

Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.

[joe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.

you may have a point there but that dosnt give them the right to disobey the laws that we all have to live by.i love fishing ,boating just like every one else but i have to obey the ruels.We all have the same problem about taxes .

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Skip

Uh-oh....

Here we go, speculatin' again.

Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name?

I'm not speculating on anything, Skip, nor am I judging or accusing or anything else. I was just making a comment. And if that's what he did, there's no judgement on my part -- it's not my place to do so.

I have no "additional insight", and I really think it would've been alright for you to say "Mr. Ames" as I did.

Thanks for your speculation on what I posted. Have a wonderful day.

[Mr. V]

Ames Farm is a vestige of a bygone era.

Very "old school," traditional, with little invested in the property by way of capital improvements (at least so it would seem).

Which I can certainly understand, as the owners have had to figure out a way to make the property pay for itself, plus yield a decent profit: otherwise, what's the point of owning a big chunk of beautiful lakefront, unless you are a gazillionaire who builds a Mcmansion and comes to visit occasionally for personal use?

Ames Farm, as currently structured, is a commercial endeavor, and they need to turn a buck.

If in fact Ames ignored the rules and / or bent the rules in order to save money, that would seem to indicate a flawed business model on the part of Ames Farm.

I would suspect that any scofflaw behavior was premised upon perceived business necessity and not on personal arrogance, but I really do not know.

Odds are quite good that a reasonable settlement to the cities' lawsuit can be arrived at, and Ames Farm can continue to operate, but Ames may choose not to.

This must be an embarassment, a black eye, and a provocative, festering sore for Ames Farm.

Were I the owners of the property, this could be the final straw to induce me to say "Bah, it ain't worth it!" and then decide to sell, brother, sell.

My families' property is near Ames Farm, and I would miss the view of the white cottages grouped on the beach, but it is their call, not mine.

Personally, I hope they can figure out a way to make it continue to work, but their costs of doing business are climbing (hello, property tax!), and it may have reached the point that it just isn't viable anymore for Ames Farm to try to operate their Business As Usual.

Cruel world.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

[joe]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

thanks for your understanding

[vrrooom]

I would have really like to see the town buy or make some arrangements with the Ames family, similar to the ones made with other farm owners in GIlford. The farm would be the last major piece of lake front in the town, and instead of a useless pond we would have been far better off to arrange with the Ames family to preserve the land and the site for the use of the town. Let the family continure to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only. Additonal Beach and launching facility would take the pressure of the current town beach and ramp.

Although some would have little to say about the permitting process on the lake I will share my expereinces in maintaining my breakwater. It costs me thousands in fees, and permits to maintain the rocks every few years.

[fatlazyless]

The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.

Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

and

"Cudgel thy brains no more about it, for your dull 'mule' will
not mend his pace with beating."

Adios, muchacho

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by vrrooom

I would have really like to see the town buy or make some arrangements with the Ames family, similar to the ones made with other farm owners in GIlford. The farm would be the last major piece of lake front in the town, and instead of a useless pond we would have been far better off to arrange with the Ames family to preserve the land and the site for the use of the town. Let the family continure to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only. Additonal Beach and launching facility would take the pressure of the current town beach and ramp.

Although some would have little to say about the permitting process on the lake I will share my expereinces in maintaining my breakwater. It costs me thousands in fees, and permits to maintain the rocks every few years.

WOW, can you imagine how much the tax rate would be for the people of Gilford to try and make that a reality????? "Let the family continue to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only" Now how would they run the restaurant part and the cabins???

[joe]

[QUOTE=fatlazyless]The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.

Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth? [/QUOTE

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SUCH AN --S

[Skip]

In a related issue, this ARTICLE in today's on-line edition of the Citizen covers a recent Gilford planning board meeting. One of the topics of discussion that night, the marina operations at Ames Inn.

[fatlazyless]

In my imagination, most all of the income goes right back to the town for semi-annual property tax payments, every June and December. Just how much is Ames Farm's property tax bill?

If the Ames' prop tax has increased from $2800 to 8200/month in the last three years, which is very much a real possibility, it creates a lot of pressure. Pressure to increase their cash flow. So, how to increase the cash flow in order to cover the town's tax bll. What do they do to make the extra money?

In our unusual NH tax system, Senator Gregg can win an 850 thousand dollar powerball and the state gets a great big zero in tax revenue. But, go buy a McChicken sandwich and the state gets 8 cents tax as it's an 8% prepared food tax. Now, who has the better ability to pay, Senator Powerball, or Joe McChicken?

Isn't Ames Farm really all about the New Hampshire Advantage tax system at work here?

[jrc]

FLL, it's been over a year since the last McChicken, Gregg, Powerball reference, what's going on?

[SIKSUKR]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.

Now, now SS, Less did invent that GW line he's been repeating lately.

[fatlazyless]

Hot off the presses from this morning's Laconia Daily Sun, it's another gigundic, block-buster, earth-shattering, Lakes Region totally-relevant story. And no, you probably wouldn't be reading a story like this in one of the other papers. If it were not for the LaDaSun, all these local Lakes Region issues would just all go unnoticed. Three cheers for the Laconia Daily News....hip-hip hurray....hip-hip hurray, and one more time here.... a great big hip-hip hurray.....(get the message)!!!
...................................

Petition aimed at Ames Farm called 'spite zoning'

Gilford Planning Board will decide on Jan. 7 whether to recommend change along Rte. 11 to voters

By Adam Drapcho
The Laconia Daily Sun

GILFORD - The Planning Board held a public hearing Monday night on a petition-driven zoning amendment that asks voters to re-zone a section of the town's Resort Commercal district to Single Family Residential. They heard two sides of the story, but put off picking which side they believe to be right until their January 7 meeting.

The chunk of land in question is a 2,000- foot wide band that runs along the Southwest side of Rte 11, from the intersection of Highland Drive to the Alton town line. It entails about 335 acres, and the Ames family owns about 80 acres within the affected area. The land is directly across Rte 11 from the now controversial Ames Farm Inn.

Because the amendment to the zoning ordinance was brought forward by a petition, the Planning Board is only deciding whether to recommend the amendment or to not recommend it; the board cannot change one word of the amendment before it goes to the voters. As Planning Director John Ayer told the board. " It'll be on the warrant either way."

Riley Road resident Steve Nix spoke in favor of the zoning amendment. "A majority of this area is already built as residential homes," he said. He counted about 70 residential units in the area, and currently there hasn't been much if any commercial developement there. Any existing commercial operations would be "grandfathered" and allowed to continue, Planning Board members stated.

By re-zoning the area to single family residential, Nix stated, it would prevent the scenario wherein an unsightly commercial operation, such as a boat storage faciliy, could be built in the middle of a residential neighborhood. "It makes no sense from a planning standpoint...What has happened on the ground is not what it is zoned for."

Highland Drive was chosen as the Northwestern border of the rezoned area, Nix said, because commercial developement exists beyond that.

Rod Dyer, an attorney representing Ames Farm Inn, said the petitioned amendment is motivated for all the wrong reasons, and is an attempt by the neighbors of Ames Farm Inn to take out some of their frustrations relating to perceptions of improper busness practices. Ames Farm Inn is currently being sued by the town for expanding the operation's use of the land beyond what was described in a site plan review dating back to the 1980s. "Let's be frank," Dyer said, "this petition wouldn't be in front of you if we hadn't had the brew-ha-ha with Ames Farm that is currently before the Planning Board."

Dyer quoted a portion of the town's Master Plan that states that the town should encourage economic developement and the services that make Gilford a friendly place for visitors. He said the re-zoning would be a "Trojan Horse" that would, by removing commercial zoning and replacing it with residential, ensure the future of Gilford as a "bedroom community."

Furthermore, Dyer said that "spot zoning" - rezoning exercises that entail small, specific parts of town - is generally suspect. Due to the association with ill feelings of some in town towards Ames Farm Inn, Dyer said it isn't even "spot zoning' but "spite zoning."

"It simply would be inappropriate for this matter to go forward wih the recommendations of the Planning Board," Dyer said. He added that he would request "findings of fact" from the board if they did recommend the amendment.

Board members were conflicted over this issue. As member John Morgenstern put it, "These people built houses, they knew they were in the Resort Commercial zone, now they want us to change it. I have a problem with that. On the other hand, I live in this zone, and I would like to see it all residential because it is residential."

Chairman Polly Sanfacon said "I am really on the fence with this myself. It's a lot to digest. I want some time to think about this."

Adam Drapcho
Laconia Daily Sun, December 19, 2007

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
What's interesting to me is that
Gilford uses the SB-2 style of voting on town issues so when it comes to the town deciding how it feels about a zoning change, it has a warrant vote. Voters get to read and decide in the privacy of a voting booth with a paper 'warrant explanation' right alongside their choice of a yes or a no vote. Polls typically are open from 7am -7pm.

Meredith uses the Town Meeting style of voting on a zoning change issue. In the open town meeting room, people get to express their opinions about the proposal, and afterwards a public vote is held with a show of hands. In the case of very close votes, a hand count is taken.

And the difference between an SB-2 poll and a Town Meeting poll can result in a very different vote result ...............how about that?....................hey remember the voice of Howard Cosell.,,,,...huh?

[jeffk]

I'm not sure of all the legalities but I thought it was considered a no-no to make zoning changes while development proposals were on the table for an area. The whole idea of zoning is to establish a set of rules to work within. A business can buy land and know it can develop it for the zoned use. If a town could willy-nilly change the zoning it would be unfair to the people who invested in the business in good faith. Is Ames Farms planning development?

We are having the same kinds of discussions in Hudson, NH where a large development is planned and neighbors want to change zoning to block it. As I understand it, zoning changes are not allowed to stop a specific development that is under consideration.

[NHskier]

JeffK is correct. Once a formal application has been submitted to the local planning or zoning board it comes under the regulations in place at that time.

If however a development is still just under pre-application discussion then a change to regulations can be made. Once new site plan or zoning changes are formally posted those changes are immediately in effect and remain so until the actual vote by townspeople. Unless voted down the regs then continue in effect.

NHskier

[GWC...]

Interesting zoning warrant vote in Gilford:

Originally Posted by online Union Leader

A petitioned zoning warrant article change which would have rezoned a large chunk of property from Highland Drive to the Alton town line from resort-commercial to single family residential was turned down 619-1,113.

Google Map...

[mcdude]

Another Public Hearing Scheduled......

AMES FARM UPDATE

[Mr. V]

I wonder why an application to allow single family residential was voted down?

It seems to me that those who voted it down are, with few exceptions, themselves living in homes on lots zoned single family residential (just an assumption).

While I can certainly understand the abutters / locals objecting to expansion of the current commercial use to include, e.g., a marina, the rationale to oppose conversion to single family residential is less clear.

If voted down, would that mean Ames must continue the current use, even if he's tired of it and wants out?

Would the only viable option for him be to sell out, with the understanding that the new buyer has to continue the current use (cabins, restaurant, boat launch) without change?

It just seems pretty harsh.

What am I missing here?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

If voted down, would that mean Ames must continue the current use, even if he's tired of it and wants out?

Would the only viable option for him be to sell out, with the understanding that the new buyer has to continue the current use (cabins, restaurant, boat launch) without change?

One thing you're missing is the other owners whose opinions must be considered. Don's mother is still alive, he has a daughter, he has a grandchild(ren), he has two brothers, he has a niece who has a child, and he may have distant cousins who are still minor owners (not sure of the status on the last one).

I know his niece Peggy wants the Farm to maintain its current character and wants her child to be able to enjoy the experience of the place. She was very gracious in her request to the townspeople that they not vote for a change in zoning...perhaps that had an influence.

[mcdude]

From the Citizen

Ames Farm will be reviewing its options after the Zoning Board of Adjustment narrowly decided that certain activities at the lakefront resort can no longer be allowed.

The Gilford ZBA granted the appeal of the Planning Board decision of the site plan for Ames Farm that was issued earlier this summer.

"Naturally, the Ames family is disappointed," their attorney, Rod Dyer, said Tuesday.

Board members Scott Davis, Donald Chesebrough and Chairman Andrew Howe voted for the appeal to be granted, while Charles Boucher and Robert Dion voted against it.

The board concluded that the nonconforming use of Ames Farm will not be grandfathered, leaving the Ames family without a valid town approval site plan for its operations.

The group of neighboring property owners presented its case at the last meeting to overturn the site plan that was approved on July 7. The neighbors are questioning uses of the property by the general public and whether they have the right to keep current operations running.

"The Planning Board can't interrupt zoning ordinances and it should have never been approved in the first place," said attorney Paul Bordeau, who represents the neighboring property owners. "The process of making a zoning ordinance lies within jurisdiction of the zoning board."

The main debate in the Ames Farm case is whether the Ames family used the property for public use before 1962, when the town first adopted zoning. The Ames family argued that the property was in fact used as an acting marina.

"According to Bob Ames, he remembered collection money at the boat ramp from boaters," said board member Charles Boucher.

Dyer presented his testimony at the last meeting in hopes that the appeal would not be issued, but it ultimately did not go in favor of the Ames family.

CLICK HERE for COMPLETE ARTICLE

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Lake Lady 6

There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.

Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.

Remember hearing about this back in the 70's and 80's a lot ..even got a decibel limit on the lake.
What is it people don't understand about why and how excessive noise is unfair.
When you hit the gas at 7 am you are imposing your will to go fishing on hundreds maybe thousands of people within earshot.
I dont know many people that enjoy lots of noise or like to be woken up early.. do you ?
Anyone that would question why others would want the lake to be the quiet peaceful place it normally is.. have never been here when it is.

[mcdude]

From the Gilford Steamer

ZBA denies Ames Farm Inn site plan

BY ERIK ZYGMONT
EZYGMONT@SALMONPRESS.COM
On Monday, the Zoning Board of Adjustment overturned a previous Planning Board decision, striking that board’s approval of the Ames Farm Inn site plan. The ZBA voted 3-2 to grant an appeal, made by abutters, against the Planning Boards previous decision to allow Ames Farm to continue its business plan. The decision came after opposing arguments from Ames Farm and abutters were heard last month. Attorney Paul Bordeaux, representing the appellants, argued that the Planning Board had “overstepped their realm and stepped into the realm of the ZBA” by approving the Ames Farm Inn site plan. ZBA members Scott Davis, Don Chesebrough, and Andy Howe voted to grant the appeal against the Planning Board’s previous decision. Robert Dion and Charles Boucher voted against the appeal. Chesebrough argued that though the Ames Farm Inn had historically operated as an inn, with the accessory use as a boat launch, the boat launch aspect of the business had expanded into a primary use. He called the inn’s boat launch a “full-blown marina.” “You can’t have a use expanded as far as they have and call it an accessory to an inn,” Chesebrough said. Davis said that though he felt that Ames Farm was in an ideal spot to offer boat launch services, he also did not agree with the Planning Board’s decision. Both Chesebrough and Davis noted a 1988 site plan cited by the Planning Board, they said, as justification for the inn’s current business practices, including the boat launch. “We need to look at the Planning Board’s process and the decision they’ve made,” Davis said. Boucher argued for upholding the Planning Board’s decision. Though the appeal was made by abutters, Boucher said that he received 30 letters in favor of allowing Ames Farm Inn to continue its current operations. Boucher read aloud a letter from resident David Pierce, which called the inn “a piece of the past in our midst.” Pierce’s letter also asserts that noise generated at Ames Farm is minimal, lower than noise levels generated by some private residences, and that the Ames Farm property is aesthetically pleasing and well-kept. “The temptation to sell this property will be too great, and then they will have something more malignant to deal with,” read Boucher. Boucher said that “it’s better to deal with the devil you know than the devil you don’t know.” He added that future development on the site could be detrimental to Gilford, and “here’s a place where we can prevent that from happening.” ZBA Chair Andy Howe said that he agreed with Chesebrough’s argument, that the boat launch had expanded well beyond an accessory use of the inn. “You go down there on weekends and it’s packed,” Howe said. He added that the amount of parking available at Ames Farm indicates a departure from the inn’s primary use. “There’s just tons of parking; it’s amazing,” Howe said. “There’s no way that the primary use of the cottages and inn would warrant that much parking.” The Ameses may request a rehearing with the ZBA if they so choose.

[NBR]

Dick,

You forget that a growing percentage of lake front property owners own the water. Any use of their lake that does not conform to their useage is not in the public interest and must be stopped at once.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by joe

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

How about when the developer of Samoset condominiums filled in a dry river bed on the south side of the property to build more condos. One spring, there was so much water running off from from Belknap/Gunstock Mtn that it washed away some of the Samoset properties and the abutters as well. What a mess! My father warned the town but the town figured a dry riverbed is no big deal. To this day, I'd rather deal with a landowner than some high powered developer who will go out of his way to walk all over the neighbors and the town.

[rickstr66]

Originally Posted by HUH

Remember hearing about this back in the 70's and 80's a lot ..even got a decibel limit on the lake.
What is it people don't understand about why and how excessive noise is unfair.
When you hit the gas at 7 am you are imposing your will to go fishing on hundreds maybe thousands of people within earshot.
I dont know many people that enjoy lots of noise or like to be woken up early.. do you ?
Anyone that would question why others would want the lake to be the quiet peaceful place it normally is.. have never been here when it is.

two different stories:

Couple 1 buys a house near an airport, couple 2 buys a house next to a highway. Soon both couples are complaining about the noise the plains and cars make. HUH??????

[HUH]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

two different stories:

Couple 1 buys a house near an airport, couple 2 buys a house next to a highway. Soon both couples are complaining about the noise the plains and cars make. HUH??????

Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.

[rickstr66]

Originally Posted by HUH

Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.

I never said shorefront owners are selfish. Diselusioned, maybe. Out of touch, possibly. As for the family owning their property since the 20's, how did they deal with the instalation of roads and the growing increase of auto traffic over the years? Did they move to have the roads near them closed or moved to a different location? If I bought a house in a location where mine was the only house for 200 yards in either direction then some years later someone built 100 yards from me, then some years later someone built 50 yards from me then 25 yards from me and I did not like that, YES I would move. I am the one unhappy, not the other people who moved into the neighborhood I live in. Who am I to impose my will on others?
Times change. The Lake is busier today then it was 10 years ago. It was busier 10 years ago then it was 20 years previous ect, ect. You all bought property on the BIGGEST lake in New Hampshire. You are shocked and upset that people actually use the lake for the purpose for which it was intended for ALL?

Is there a "quiet" ordanence in NH? If so what are the time constraints? Could a homeowner decide to mow his/her lawn at 7am, 8am and not be in violation of said law?

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by HUH

Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.

Apparently, the train whistle being blown at the Ames Farm station never bothered them - original family members.

Would that make them the kettle or the pot - current family members?

[Woodsy]

WOW... some people never cease to amaze me! You buy property next to a commercial business, then expect the business to change to suit you?

Whats the big deal over Ames Farm? So what if he lets the public launch boats there for a fee? So what if he hosts Fishing Tournaments? Thats like the people who move to Weirs then complain about Bike Week...

He has to pay some exorbitant taxes on that piece of property, and lets face it those small cottages arent going to cover his tax bill, never mind make him a small profit!

I think people need to be careful what they wish for... If I were the Ames family I would seriously consider selling out to a BIG developer for some big $$$! Then watch as the crabby neighbors spend all thier $$ battling a big development company with DEEP pockets...

Just think of how that are would look with 200 or so condos, a much bigger dock footprint.... all that lovely traffic and the noise that comes with all those people using thier motorcycles, boats & jetski's!

or better yet, go completely agri and go back to cows & pigs.... STINKY!

Woodsy

[Dick]

A person who buys a house adjacent to a public park (grass) should not be surprised that the general public will actually use the park . . . sometimes at night and early in the morning. Some of the public will make noise. Sometimes the kids in the adjacent ballpark will hit a ball into this person's yard. Should the person hire a lawyer in an attempt to restrict the hours that the park can be open . . . or limit the kids' ball playing in some way?

What difference does it make if the public park is made up of grass or water? Winnipesaukee (like all lakes) is held in public trust by the state of NH. The person who buys a house adjacent to this water park should have known before he bought the house that it was located adjacent to a public park and the likelihood was high that the public would recreate on it in many different ways. If you like to fish, the chances are you will want to be on the water at sunrise because that is when the catching is best. Outboard motors make some noise. Didn't the guy who bought the house know this?

Look, the lake is not valuable because someone built a McManson on its' shoreline . . . the guy's house is valuable because of the lake . . . and the lake belongs to the all of the public . . . equally.

Don't complain if me and my buddies want to take off from Ames Farm (or anywhere else on the lake) and go bass fishing at 6:30 AM. You shouldn't be surprised. Nor should you complain when 4 or 5 boats get together in "your" cove.

There are pros and cons to living on a lake. Please be aware of both.

[gravy boat]

Dick,

When fisherman stop trolling where my children swim, I'll be a bit more tolerant. I don't care if anybody fishes...just stay away from swimming areas -- out of common courtesy. In the last four years we had two cases of discarded fishhooks stuck in the feet (in 3 to 5 feet of water within 20 feet of shore between where the boats are moored and the shoreline).

You're right -- the water is public. But common courtesy should be shown by all, whether you pay taxes to live there or you pay a launch fee to have access.

But don't complain to me if you and your buddies encounter a water balloon at 6:30 am after waking me up or if you're too close to where we are swimming. ;-)

GB