Another waste of NH money.

[Belmont Resident]

Once again the state of NH looks to be wasting money paving over roads that are in far better shape then other state roads that have long been in need of a face lift.
Rt11 has been in the process of being skimmed over this week, while Rt107 which for over 11 years now has been in far worse shape. At one point the Gilmanton FD stated it was a hazard to drive over when responding to calls.
Does anyone have any idea why they do this?
Just after the stimulus money came out a few years ago they also paved a perfectly good Rt106 from Concord to the trace track while other heavily traveled roads sat untouched. They did re-coat from Laconia to Meredith which really was in bad shape though.
It really seems like our states decision makers have no idea what they are doing and where the priorities should lay.
Is this another case of just spend the money before the end of the year or loos it?

[SAB1]

Agreed. Waste of $. I know in Mass towns get a certain percentage of Money from the State and they do the same thing, repave perfectly fine roads that don't need it. If the do not use the appropriated money they have to give it back.

[NBR]

The same kind of thinking that continues to favor a roundabout at malfunction junction. The new configuration seems to work well in the summer and should be super in the winter. But the state continues to back a roundabout. Easy to figure. If you get a higher base dollar amount for your budget it will result in a higher budget for next year. If you spenf less it will be reflected in next years budget.

[AC2717]

I think both are stupid, love the new set up at the malfunction junction.
I am guessing with the stimulus and i am sure they collected those blood money fees from Hannaford and lowes when they built there for improvements to the are and had to act on it, really stupid

[AmericanBoatClub]

I have heard the reasoning behind it, and in no way am I defending the Gov in one way or the other but this is the logic as it was explained to me.

A road in fair condition can be overlayed with 1" to 1.5" of top course it is a finer asphalt that help seal the existing asphalt. They simply tack coat the existing asphalt and lay it down and this drastically extends the life of the road, for pretty cheap money.

Roads that are in very poor condition can not simply be overlayed it would be a waste of money. To properly repair the road the asphalt will need to reclaimed and regraded, and binder asphalt will need to be layed down 2"-3" and then the top course 1"-1.5", and more than likely the root problem with the road is the drainage, so they need to spend money, redesigning, and approving a new drainage system, and install it.

So you can see how one is cheap money in preventative maintenance and one is expensive repair/rebuild work.

And asphalt is crazy expensive the last few years, right now it is $645 a liquid ton and that translates to very expensive per ton in place price.

[Rusty]

The NH DOT has a ten year plan that they go by:

http://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdev.../typ/index.htm

[Slickcraft]

ABC is correct. The shim coat of black top that they are putting on is only a fraction of the cost of a complete reconstruction.

Many roadbeds have undergone a complete reconstruction to modern standards at considerable expense. This includes roads like the section of 11 now being resurfaced and the section near Mt Major. Afterwards they are on a periodic maintenance program of resurfacing to protect that large prior investment. Kind of like putting water sealer on that fairly new deck to protect your investment.

Many older roadbeds like 11A and the section of 11 between West Alton and Ellacoya never have been reconstructed to modern standards and are plagued poor drainage leading to frost heaves and cracking. The $$ to reconstruct all of these old roads does not exist so they simply get resurfaced only when the driving gets really rough.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by AmericanBoatClub

I have heard the reasoning behind it, and in no way am I defending the Gov in one way or the other but this is the logic as it was explained to me.

A road in fair condition can be overlayed with 1" to 1.5" of top course it is a finer asphalt that help seal the existing asphalt. They simply tack coat the existing asphalt and lay it down and this drastically extends the life of the road, for pretty cheap money.

Roads that are in very poor condition can not simply be overlayed it would be a waste of money. To properly repair the road the asphalt will need to reclaimed and regraded, and binder asphalt will need to be layed down 2"-3" and then the top course 1"-1.5", and more than likely the root problem with the road is the drainage, so they need to spend money, redesigning, and approving a new drainage system, and install it.

So you can see how one is cheap money in preventative maintenance and one is expensive repair/rebuild work.

And asphalt is crazy expensive the last few years, right now it is $645 a liquid ton and that translates to very expensive per ton in place price.

ABC, you took the words right out of my mouth! Thanks!

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Once again the state of NH looks to be wasting money paving over roads that are in far better shape then other state roads that have long been in need of a face lift.
Rt11 has been in the process of being skimmed over this week, while Rt107 which for over 11 years now has been in far worse shape. At one point the Gilmanton FD stated it was a hazard to drive over when responding to calls.
Does anyone have any idea why they do this?
Just after the stimulus money came out a few years ago they also paved a perfectly good Rt106 from Concord to the trace track while other heavily traveled roads sat untouched. They did re-coat from Laconia to Meredith which really was in bad shape though.
It really seems like our states decision makers have no idea what they are doing and where the priorities should lay.
Is this another case of just spend the money before the end of the year or loos it?

I couldn't agree more!!! It has bugged me for years why they do this crap...

[Belmont Resident]

I understand it is cheaper and I knew that before posting but it doesn't make it the right thing to do.
There are roads that have been in serious need of repair in this area for a LOT longer then 10 years.
I've noticed that in the last 5 years I've needed front end alignments more frequently and go through tires quicker and it's all due to the poor road conditions.

[Heaven]

I think the point is, after spending good money to reconstruct a road it only make sense to maintain it in order to have it last a lot longer. This doesn't take away from the roads that still need to be reclaimed. If the good ones weren't maintained, they would turn into bad ones quickly and then . . .

[Jonas Pilot]

What about priorities!!

[Jonas Pilot]

I guess the priorities are determined by your gumbas. Not by what will best serve the majority.

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

Has anyone else here ever seen the wooden guard rails that are on the West Alton/gilford line near Ames farm? Two sections of them have fallen over and are now resting on someones shed, they have been like this for years.. Take a look next time you drive by (lake side) so that I would consider a safety hazzard, but yet as noted above they pave over a road that has nothing wrong with it......

[jrc]

Some projects were "shovel ready" some were not. Oh I'm sorry there's no such thing as shovel ready.

I used to think that these kind of decisions were made to please people with political clout. Now I think it's just incompetence. The only thing that makes me feel half way good is that Mass is worse. I saw them pave a bridge over 495. There was concrete falling off the bottom as they paved the top. A few months later they ripped up all the paving to fix the concrete.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by jrc

Some projects were "shovel ready" some were not. Oh I'm sorry there's no such thing as shovel ready.

I used to think that these kind of decisions were made to please people with political clout. Now I think it's just incompetence. The only thing that makes me feel half way good is that Mass is worse. I saw them pave a bridge over 495. There was concrete falling off the bottom as they paved the top. A few months later they ripped up all the paving to fix the concrete.

Yes jrc we see that all to often and it equates to fraud.
Using money to do a project just so they won't loose the money, then using more or our money to tear it up and do it all over again the right way.
Enough ranting I've got to go drive on that new unnecessary pavement to get to the house I'm painting.

[Merrymeeting]

On a related note, had to chuckle while driving back from a Boston doctor appointment yesterday.

Heading north on the Spaulding Turnpike (Rt 16). As you approach the Dover toll booths, just after coming over the bridge construction over Great Bay, you will see several "End Construction Zone" signs on both sides of the road. Twenty yards later, just before the tolls, you will see several "Begin Construction Zone" signs on both sides of the road.

[Pontoon Goon]

Originally Posted by jrc

The only thing that makes me feel half way good is that Mass is worse.

jcr I for one am happy the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is doing it's part to make you feel half way good. Anyway, with year round conditions being what they are and relatively high traffic counts on the major roads I truly think N.H. is on top of things. Secondary roads are always SECONDARY.

[Rusty]

Homeowners know how hard it is to maintain an asphalt driveway. Cracks, dips, rocks/boulders lift in the spring time causing a bump with hair line cracks around it, chipping, etc.
Homeowners have the same difficult decisions to make just like the NH DOT does. When do you fill the cracks, when do you seal it, how do I get the oil stains off...and so on.

What Town does the DOT appease first, can they just add a shim coat, how much money is left in the budget.

It's not easy trying to have a 10 year plan and then have mother nature change them. Floods, a very cold winter, a lot of snow, more than usual runoff from the Mountain streams...all these add up to having something not getting done that the original plan called for.

Maybe if we go back to dirt roads and just scrape them once in a while will do the trick.

[BroadHopper]

NH natives love it when the PT residents and tourists complains about our roads. We don't want you to settle in our towns and change our ways.

That is why the state is doing a good job for us.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Altonbayicefishingfool

Has anyone else here ever seen the wooden guard rails that are on the West Alton/gilford line near Ames farm? Two sections of them have fallen over and are now resting on someones shed, they have been like this for years.. Take a look next time you drive by (lake side) so that I would consider a safety hazzard, but yet as noted above they pave over a road that has nothing wrong with it......

Yup. I called DoT about this two years ago and told them that this should be fixed ASAP. They installed some cheezy wooden posts that wouldn't stop a bicycle from going over the edge! Last winter the plow trucks wiped out these poles, resulting in a car going off the edge and landing on top of someone's shed. Wait till a fuel truck goes over the edge there one of these winters...talk about an environmental disaster! But who's listening at DoT?

[Jonas Pilot]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

NH natives love it when the PT residents and tourists complains about our roads. We don't want you to settle in our towns and change our ways.

That is why the state is doing a good job for us.

There is some truth in that.

[jrc]

Do you really think, "let's make our state crappy, so no one will come here" is a good plan?

How about, "let's make this place great, so the best and brightest will move here" instead?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

NH natives love it when the PT residents and tourists complains about our roads. We don't want you to settle in our towns and change our ways.

That is why the state is doing a good job for us.

BH the problem is the state isn't doing a very good job at all for US.
Some of these roads in question are almost a hazard for us to drive a motorcycle on.
I have a friend who rides and carries a wheel chair on a special fixture behind his bike, a 3 wheeled trike. Even with it strapped down he has lost it due to the poor road conditions between the lakes region and Conway.
Rt-107, 129, 175, 3A 113, 113A and many others all used to be great STATE maintained roads to take a motorcycle to get off the highways. Now it is almost impossible to find a state road or for that matter any other road that isn't a highway to take a motorcycle on safely.

[Grandpa Redneck]

If you want to see a really porly maintained road check out RTE 25C from Warren to Piermont. I have drivven most of the ones mentioned in this thread and 25C makes em all look like a super highway

[Grandpa Redneck]

Originally Posted by Grandpa Redneck

If you want to see a really porly maintained road check out RTE 25C from Warren to Piermont. I have drivven most of the ones mentioned in this thread and 25C makes em all look like a super highway

Tho I do have to say last summer, and this summer the local state road crew are fixing some of it a 100 yards at a time.