Four Winns getting new owner

[lawn psycho]

So Four Winns was part of Genmar's bankrupty. Appears Platinum Equity will be the new owner and plans to expand.

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/stor...ocal&id=399165

[BroadHopper]

That is good news that the brand name will carry on. During the '70's and 80's they were doing well and made a fantastic line of performance boats, Liberator. When Genmar bought them out, they became mediocre boats like the rest of the Genmar holdings. I hope the new owners put some life into the boats.

[Ms Molly McKever]

platinum equity make's money, good for them, but they don't make boat's.
how long before they move to mexico ?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

platinum equity make's money, good for them, but they don't make boat's.
how long before they move to mexico ?

I would think more than likely, they'd get out of Michigan and move down to NC. Right to work states are pretty popular now, as are jobs.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

platinum equity make's money, good for them, but they don't make boat's.
how long before they move to mexico ?

Of course with any acquisition, you never know how things will play out. Moving any of their manufacturing to Mexico is certainly a possibility as part of cost cutting.

The word out of Platinum Equity thus far is they intend to keep the facility in Cadillac, MI going and even to expand.

What I find hard to believe is they currently don't intend to drop any of the Genmar brands. They need to consolidate as there is too much overlap in products they offer.

The Carver Yachts & Marquis are going to be owned by J&D LLC as the previous Genmar President Irwin Jacobs teamed up with some billionaire to bid on that brand.

A Four Winns news clips for those that are interested:
http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=196580

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I would think more than likely, they'd get out of Michigan and move down to NC. Right to work states are pretty popular now, as are jobs.

That's the reason why I get my interviews in these states. Jobs. I have an interview in NC Monday. Too bad NH no longer have jobs to offer.

[bigdog]

Hope the new Four Winns owner sticks to their promises !

Have seen though toooooooooo many times, where new company buys another, and either sells off the assets for a quick buck, or shuffles the manufacturing off to some third-world hell-hole country for cheap labor.

Happened to me personally! I worked for a MAJOR manufacturer, which made a world-class brand item everyone uses, would know (not going to name here). The new company shifted operations to Mexico. The quality of the product made there was terrible ! 30+% of what they made were unacceptable by QA standards and went back to scarp! Tell me where they saved costs there?

Long story short, company is now out of business, but the brand name was purchased. All goods now are made by a 3rd party in Taiwan !

What can I say, GREED rules American business. How much, and how fast can I make it, and American employees are not considered part of the process. That stopped probably 50 years ago !

Sorry I digressed from main topic...... Just my 2 cnts, sorry venting !!!!!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

That's the reason why I get my interviews in these states. Jobs. I have an interview in NC Monday. Too bad NH no longer have jobs to offer.

NC has a lot of oppurtunities. Too bad it's being polluted with Yankees who can't find work Tallest peak east of the Mississippi is in ..... NC. Just goes to show that the South has always looked down on the North. j/k
I went to grad school down there and will be my place of retirement.

Despite common misconceptions, NC employers frequently pay the same or HIGHER than up here so I'm not sure Four Winns would save in labor.

The information from the now former CEO of Genmar has indicated that they may close a plant in Minnesota and combine manufacturing in Cadillac, MI.

More fodder: http://www.cadillacnews.com/story_ne...5585&year=2010

[SAMIAM]

Hope Four Winns comes out ok but it it can't all be blamed on business.....a lot of the GREED, (looks better in caps) goes right back to the unions.
Just ask Chrysler and GM......unions demand more and more.Threaten strikes and walkouts .Now you've got guys getting $30 or $40 an hour running a rivet gun with a Cadillac health plan,10 sick days,paid vacations,can't be fired even if they come to work stoned.....and then they retire with a 75K salary for life. It's unsustainable because these huge payouts are now day to day operating costs ..... THIS is what drives jobs into 3rd world countries every bit as much as greedy employers.I think there is blame on both sides.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Hope Four Winns comes out ok but it it can't all be blamed on business.....a lot of the GREED, (looks better in caps) goes right back to the unions.
Just ask Chrysler and GM......unions demand more and more.Threaten strikes and walkouts .Now you've got guys getting $30 or $40 an hour running a rivet gun with a Cadillac health plan,10 sick days,paid vacations,can't be fired even if they come to work stoned.....and then they retire with a 75K salary for life. It's unsustainable because these huge payouts are now day to day operating costs ..... THIS is what drives jobs into 3rd world countries every bit as much as greedy employers.I think there is blame on both sides.

If you want to see cushy Union deals you only have to look as far as your local police and fire unions.

The police unions are fighting to get paid for an additional 15 minutes before and after their shifts for putting on their uniforms. And they look at you with a straight face when asking for it too.

That is a half and hour per work day to get dressed.
5 days * 50 weeks (assume two weeks of vaction) * 0.5 hours = 125 hours = 3.125 weeks of additional pay per officer per year.

[BroadHopper]

The last recession we had back in the 80's was won by the auto and steel industries. Now we don't have that luxury. Only industry that is hiring are the medical industries. They know they have the market and are hiring at minimum wage or better. This is a big reason to push the 'Obama care'. To create more jobs where there is a niche.
Problem here is that the medical industry can't sustain itself. Their wage is not competitive enough to pay the current fee structure.
The next largest industry is the defense industry and that is going down hill. Fast! Lockheed just anounce another 1400 folks laid off. BAE in Nashua was once the largest employer in NH. Now the state govt is the largest.
Govt. will be the last industry for sustainability. Too bad the folks can't sustain itself either. Unless the govt decides to print more money.
The only industry left is intellectual property. We are not supporting our children and colleges to that end. Another problem is that China and India refuse to recognize intellectual property rights. Another problem we need to address.

The only reason the company I am going for an interview is hiring is that they have expanded internationally to Canada, Mexico and Australia. There is nothing left here.

So my fellow Americans, are you contented that this will be a great place to live in the future? Sit back and relax then. I'm happy for you.

Oh BTW, a number of folks I know that works for marinas on the lake have been told to look elsewhere for a job. Thanks to those who got what they wish for.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Another problem is that China and India refuse to recognize intellectual property rights. Another problem we need to address.

This is more serious than people think. Knock-off phones, software, and reverse engineering is rampant in Asia.

We have actually had to prevent certain designs from going overseas because they would have been copied in under 6 months.

My company had a customer return that looked like an identical to our part. After deprocessing we new immediately it wasn't made by us as the part was made with processing equipment our company does not use.

Personally I think the best way to go at this is a dose of their own shananagans. Anything we send to China gets no safety and quality control.

[bigdog]

Ditto SAMIAM & Lawn Psycho about the Unions. They have caused much of the problem in our country with high-wages, expensive Health Care Plans, and exhorbatant pensions.... Use to be an old clique' about Unions... "Pay me more and I'll do less' !

Unions had a place in their day, at the turn of the Century (early 1900's), but after WWI they stared going downhilll, and creating much of the labor problems in this country. By charging such high labor to make the goods, they priced themseleves out of the world-market, and could not compete. Let's face it people shop price, quality is usually takes second place.

Wham a Union worker, (just about any sector), can make about 2x what a school teacher, who teaches my kid math and science, the System is VERY wrong ! VERY WRONG !

It has become more attractive ‘not to work’, go on Assistance, collect food stamps, get fuel assistance, get FREE Health Care, BTW, Did I mention down here in MASS, State gives you Cable !

Best of all you don't have to pay either Federal or State taxes....because you have no income. It just gets better and better.

Basically 'no job', but with all the benifits ! Only in America !

My…. we’ve strayed off the original Forum Thread…….

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by bigdog

It has become more attractive ‘not to work’, go on Assistance, collect food stamps, get fuel assistance, get FREE Health Care, BTW, Did I mention down here in MASS, State gives you Cable !
Best of all you don't have to pay either Federal or State taxes....because you have no income. It just gets better and better.
Basically 'no job', but with all the benifits ! Only in America !

I wonder which group of politicians we have to blame for this thinking. Most clear thinking people understand very well.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I wonder which group of politicians we have to blame for this thinking. Most clear thinking people understand very well.

Democrats. Massachusetts became a 'feel good' state. err Commonwealth.

[tis]

Let's hope all you people from Mass. get out there and vote next Tues. This is your big chance to start taking your state back. I hope he can beat Martha, she is awful! And have you heard they are taking about changing the law AGAIN so that if she gets voted out which is a real possiblity, he can't come into office until AFTER the vote on health care. If the dems. lose her, they lost their 60th vote.

[bigdog]

Needed to respond to 'SIKSUKR, BroadHopper, and tis', although not part of this original Thread, I digress.....

Election Day Jan. 19, will make history in Mass. Scott Brown is going to "crush" 'Martha C. in the Senate election. Martha's Coakley's campaign is scared to death, and pulling out all the stops with negative non-stop advertising. FYI, She went to Washington this week, with her hand out to special interest groups to fill her coffers. Interesting thing, our infamous
Gov. 'Devil' Patrick' hasn't even come out in support of Martha ! Why is that?

There's SO MUCH momentum down here in Mass. for this election, it's scary ! The people will rise up and speak loud and clear. We're sick of the same old politics and corrunption, and irrresponsible spending out of control !

The politicians have mortgaged our Great-Great-Grandchildrens future.
We're not going to take it anymore, we're going to get it right this time !

BTW, I'm not asscociated with any Party affiliation, never was, I vote the person !

Sorry venting..... Just my 2 cnts!

[tis]

I know we're off topic but good for you bigdog! I am glad to hear there is so much momentum and the people of Mass. are going to speak up "loud and clear"! That will be so great if she wins! We need to take back our country -they are not paying one bit of attention to what we the people want from local government right up to federal.

[Jonas Pilot]

Remember that you're on the Winnipesaukee Forum & PhotoPost

Only post messages, pictures and comments that are directly related to Lakes Region topics and activities. No sports, religion, politics or chit-chat please.

From FAQ

[VtSteve]

Interestingly, Mexico has lost jobs the last decade, as companies look for cheaper labor and higher productivity. It's a tough situation in the US, you have cheap (frugal) customers that don't want to pay for good products, but they all want their wages and benefits to be high. Catch 22 there.

The boat business is changing rapidly as they try to regain some sort of financial ground. Prices are going up, sales are still low. Companies that need to raise their margins, will simply focus on that aspect. It took a long time to rid the country of union control. The old-time unions with massive power, getting big bucks to enforce the rule. But the contrast we see now, is US companies using more and more contract workers, people with little or no benefits, lower wages, that can be terminated without any impact to the bottom line.

The boat business went under for one reason, oversupply. There are so many brands out there it's silly. Combine oversupply with a sudden realization by banks that their customers are not worthy of credit, and you have some issues to deal with.

Regardless of whether a boat or car is made in NC or Mexico, the only real difference is what the company's pay the workers. You'll not see the difference on the sticker. I believe the vast majority of workers that make cars for Honda, Toyota and Nissan in the USA, are not unionized. I think that's also true of the Ford workers that make cars like the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln whatever, in Mexico...... See how that works?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Needed to respond to 'SIKSUKR, BroadHopper, and tis', although not part of this original Thread, I digress.....

Election Day Jan. 19, will make history in Mass. Scott Brown is going to "crush" 'Martha C. in the Senate election. Martha's Coakley's campaign is scared to death, and pulling out all the stops with negative non-stop advertising. FYI, She went to Washington this week, with her hand out to special interest groups to fill her coffers. Interesting thing, our infamous
Gov. 'Devil' Patrick' hasn't even come out in support of Martha ! Why is that?

There's SO MUCH momentum down here in Mass. for this election, it's scary ! The people will rise up and speak loud and clear. We're sick of the same old politics and corrunption, and irrresponsible spending out of control !

The politicians have mortgaged our Great-Great-Grandchildrens future.
We're not going to take it anymore, we're going to get it right this time !

BTW, I'm not asscociated with any Party affiliation, never was, I vote the person !

Sorry venting..... Just my 2 cnts!

i just received the most insulting (full color and expensive) flyer from the Coakley campaign "what can Brown do for you"... This shows him in UPS garb shipping boxes overseas, with "your job" written on them. I don't know about anyone else, but a negative ad pushes me away from the candidate that produced it towards their opponent. Talk about issues and YOUR platform - if you can't do that, then shut up! I am going to vote Republican anyway for all the reasons described above - but if I were on the fence, i think a campaign like Coakley has run could well backfire and push undecideds the other way.

As for Lakes Region relevance - those of you in NH should give the heave-ho the the Democrats/liberals or you are going to turn into the northern province of Massachusetts...

[fatlazyless]

Here's a local NH boat building company that builds a terrific quality product that can easily last for years, needs no insurance other than your standard-deluxe home owners policy, needs no registration, and burns no air-pollut'n gasoline.

Built in Ashland, NH, on the shore of the Squam River, www.rangercanoe.com, and that's a fact!


Comes all set, ready-to-paddle, or for about three times the speed and distance for the same effort, maybe try out a canoe-rowing rig with a slide seat and two oars.

Less talk - more paddle! ..........

Besides, and excuuuuse me for roam'n off-topic here, that Scott Brown is so dumb that he don't know one end of a paddle from the other. Like, which end goes into the water, he said?..........

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Oh BTW, a number of folks I know that works for marinas on the lake have been told to look elsewhere for a job. Thanks to those who got what they wish for.

Shep Brown's had a big ad on the Jan 15 LaDaSun classified page looking for a MerCruiser-Mercury certified marine tech. So, what's up w/ that?

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Hope the new Four Winns owner sticks to their promises !

Have seen though toooooooooo many times, where new company buys another, and either sells off the assets for a quick buck, or shuffles the manufacturing off to some third-world hell-hole country for cheap labor.

Happened to me personally! I worked for a MAJOR manufacturer, which made a world-class brand item everyone uses, would know (not going to name here). The new company shifted operations to Mexico. The quality of the product made there was terrible ! 30+% of what they made were unacceptable by QA standards and went back to scarp! Tell me where they saved costs there?

Long story short, company is now out of business, but the brand name was purchased. All goods now are made by a 3rd party in Taiwan !

What can I say, GREED rules American business. How much, and how fast can I make it, and American employees are not considered part of the process. That stopped probably 50 years ago !

Sorry I digressed from main topic...... Just my 2 cnts, sorry venting !!!!!

This is standard operating procedure now. And business keeps whining about needing more tax cuts in order to produce jobs. If we had a tax cut before the big meltdown do you think all those greedy banks and wall street folk would have created more jobs. It would only have reduced costs and increased their profits . People have to have jobs to produce income to buy product. Think about how many new business those huge bonuses on Wall street have bought us. New Mercedes and BMW's from Europe and new Mega Yachts from The far east. And they are doing it again. Just words and watered down reform from our elected representatives.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by TomC

i just received the most insulting (full color and expensive) flyer from the Coakley campaign "what can Brown do for you"... This shows him in UPS garb shipping boxes overseas, with "your job" written on them. I don't know about anyone else, but a negative ad pushes me away from the candidate that produced it towards their opponent. Talk about issues and YOUR platform - if you can't do that, then shut up! I am going to vote Republican anyway for all the reasons described above - but if I were on the fence, i think a campaign like Coakley has run could well backfire and push undecideds the other way.

As for Lakes Region relevance - those of you in NH should give the heave-ho the the Democrats/liberals or you are going to turn into the northern province of Massachusetts...

The Democrats in NH won't know what hit them after the 2010 elections. I can't wait to say goodbye to Shaheen, Hodes, Shea-Porter, Lynch, just to name a few. Then we start at the State level with the Dems. I can just hear the giant flushing sound now!