Lake light pollution

barndoor · 05-24-2005, 08:27 PM

We made our first night trip of the season last Friday and, when we rounded marker 66 at Little Barndoor, it looked like a new hotel had opened on Clay Point. People are entitled to build their mansions on their land if they so choose. But, I don't believe that they are entitled to despoil the beauty of the night sky by illuminating their homes in order to be seen across the lake. Local planning boards need to take a more active role in minimizing light pollution. Hopefully, new residents will come to enjoy the lake for its natural beauty and respect the rights of others to enjoy it by toning down their lights.

nightrider · 05-24-2005, 09:31 PM

I agree with Barndoor. There should be a limit on the amount of light a mansion should be allowed to emit.

DoftheMattysort · 05-24-2005, 10:59 PM

I'm a real estate broker down here in Mass. but I'm sure this law is true in NH as well, it's a fairly basic law. The property owners own the land. They can do whatever they want to do with that land, as long as it doesn't break a local, state, or federal law (some towns call them ordinances). Unless there is an ordinance/law that prohibits the intensity of a light, which I doubt, you're out of luck. Which is a shame because they are destroying the enjoyment for you, I, and everyother patron of the lake.

ITD · 05-25-2005, 06:30 AM

You know these people are very image concious and want everyone to see how (fill in the blank) they are. Here is a case where education may help. Notices sent with tax bills or electric bills regularly pointing out that if everyone on the lake lit there house up at night the lake would look like a carnival. Outdoor lights should be as small as possible, pointed toward the ground not across the lake. Flood lights should only be used when needed, not for security. The funny thing is these people probably love their not light polluted view of the lake. Make them understand that bright lights on a dark lake is not a good image.

ApS · 05-25-2005, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barndoor

"...But, I don't believe that they are entitled to despoil the beauty of the night sky by illuminating their homes in order to be seen across the lake. Local planning boards need to take a more active role in minimizing light pollution...respect the rights of others to enjoy it by toning down their lights..."

I agree with barndoor

"Entitlement" does seem to be the operative word today, but it's not just the night sky that's affected.

Those bright lights also confuse boat operators. If you've had radial keratotamy or LASIK surgery, or the 2% of the boating population that has nyctalopia, (or if you're just "old enough") the lights will affect your skill in night boating and docking.

However, the worst night sky I've witnessed on Winnipesaukee was during last summer's night power outage. New McMansions had emergency lights that allowed me to find my way around my living room -- from ½-mile away!

Grant · 05-25-2005, 09:22 AM

Tell the posers to hit the lights.

BroadHopper · 05-25-2005, 09:49 AM

I have a hard time trying to find the light bouys at night because of all the 'poluution'. I love to go out at night but lately it's been a chore!
There are places on the lake that even has a red and or green light on! This makes it very confusing! There is one mansion near the entrance to Governor's island that is very annoying at night. And it is year round!

TomC · 05-25-2005, 10:24 AM

taking the Devil's advocate position: it IS private property, it ISN'T against the law, and it IS the "live free or die" state, no?

we all have legal pursuits and interests we enjoy that no doubt 'irritate' others.. so what happens when others rally to eliminate something you want and have the right to do?

Mee-n-Mac · 05-25-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

{snip} There are places on the lake that even has a red and or green light on! This makes it very confusing! There is one mansion near the entrance to Governor's island that is very annoying at night. And it is year round!

The faux nav lights bother me more (re:boating) than does the general lighting. There are 2 sets, at the end of 2 docks, in Alton Bay. It's annoying to glance that way and then have to do a double take as someone, with poorly aligned sidelights, is apparently coming right at you from shore

I'd ask the waterfront owners to try to minimize the lighting, keeping what's really needed and then to try to aim the lights down to the ground rather than out onto the lake. That said, the "landing strip" lights on the shore side of Rattlesnake make (made) an unmmistakable nav-aid

Frdxplorer · 05-25-2005, 02:44 PM

My over protective mother always races for the light switch when she sees up beginning our turn toward the dock. Nothing gripes my dad more and I too get a little irritated. We try telling her that our night vision serves us way better than a few spotlights staring us down and blinding us but I guess until she does it a few times (that will never happen) she will keep doing it.

As far as the argument of private property, live free or die etc, you are exactly right. There is really no way to "prohibit" this sort of behavior. I think most of the folks on here are just expressing their wishes to keep the lake a relatively tranquil place, that doesn't glow into the sky. Those from the Philly Jersey area are well aware of the glow from Atlantic City that can be seen from Ocean City.

I certainly believe that the Bahre's (I assume that is the mansion being referenced) have a right to enjoy their property. An occasional party here or there is nothing to get worked up about. But if they are constantly lighting up their property like a stadium, I can see how that could become bothersome, albeit not illegal.

islandAl · 05-25-2005, 03:58 PM

Get the proposed legislation off dead center and passed. Probably need new filings as these are old. There are places where the lighting is controlled.

http://www.mv.com/users/lopez/nhcrl/...Dec-98.v2.html

http://www.mv.com/users/lopez/nhcrl/...22-MAR-99.html

These are from the www.darksky.org web site.

I think one of the most beautiful times is to lay out in the boat (tied to the dock) and listen to the crickets and frogs while star gazing. I remember when some relatives visited (from suburbs of Boston) and had some young children and they asked "why do you have more stars than we do"

05-24-2005, 08:27 PM	#1
barndoor Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15 Thanks: 48 Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts	Lake light pollution We made our first night trip of the season last Friday and, when we rounded marker 66 at Little Barndoor, it looked like a new hotel had opened on Clay Point. People are entitled to build their mansions on their land if they so choose. But, I don't believe that they are entitled to despoil the beauty of the night sky by illuminating their homes in order to be seen across the lake. Local planning boards need to take a more active role in minimizing light pollution. Hopefully, new residents will come to enjoy the lake for its natural beauty and respect the rights of others to enjoy it by toning down their lights.

05-24-2005, 09:31 PM	#2
nightrider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: winter harbor Posts: 199 Thanks: 4 Thanked 33 Times in 18 Posts	I agree with Barndoor. There should be a limit on the amount of light a mansion should be allowed to emit. Last edited by webmaster; 05-25-2005 at 06:48 AM. Reason: stick to the topic!

05-24-2005, 10:59 PM	#3
DoftheMattysort Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North of the South pole but south of North pole Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm a real estate broker down here in Mass. but I'm sure this law is true in NH as well, it's a fairly basic law. The property owners own the land. They can do whatever they want to do with that land, as long as it doesn't break a local, state, or federal law (some towns call them ordinances). Unless there is an ordinance/law that prohibits the intensity of a light, which I doubt, you're out of luck. Which is a shame because they are destroying the enjoyment for you, I, and everyother patron of the lake. __________________ "I hate women because they can always find the remote, car keys, the dog, etc."

05-25-2005, 09:22 AM	#6
Grant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pennsyltuckey, Tuftonboro, Moultonborough Posts: 1,485 Thanks: 337 Thanked 212 Times in 116 Posts	Unreal Tell the posers to hit the lights. __________________ "When I die, please don't let my wife sell my dive gear for what I told her I paid for it."

05-25-2005, 09:49 AM	#7
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,512 Thanks: 3,118 Thanked 1,090 Times in 784 Posts	Light pollution I have a hard time trying to find the light bouys at night because of all the 'poluution'. I love to go out at night but lately it's been a chore! There are places on the lake that even has a red and or green light on! This makes it very confusing! There is one mansion near the entrance to Governor's island that is very annoying at night. And it is year round! __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-25-2005, 06:30 AM	#4
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	You know these people are very image concious and want everyone to see how (fill in the blank) they are. Here is a case where education may help. Notices sent with tax bills or electric bills regularly pointing out that if everyone on the lake lit there house up at night the lake would look like a carnival. Outdoor lights should be as small as possible, pointed toward the ground not across the lake. Flood lights should only be used when needed, not for security. The funny thing is these people probably love their not light polluted view of the lake. Make them understand that bright lights on a dark lake is not a good image.

05-25-2005, 10:24 AM	#8
TomC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 547 Thanks: 9 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	I agree with the sentiment, but.. taking the Devil's advocate position: it IS private property, it ISN'T against the law, and it IS the "live free or die" state, no? we all have legal pursuits and interests we enjoy that no doubt 'irritate' others.. so what happens when others rally to eliminate something you want and have the right to do?

05-25-2005, 02:44 PM	#10
Frdxplorer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: York, PA Posts: 234 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	My over protective mother always races for the light switch when she sees up beginning our turn toward the dock. Nothing gripes my dad more and I too get a little irritated. We try telling her that our night vision serves us way better than a few spotlights staring us down and blinding us but I guess until she does it a few times (that will never happen) she will keep doing it. As far as the argument of private property, live free or die etc, you are exactly right. There is really no way to "prohibit" this sort of behavior. I think most of the folks on here are just expressing their wishes to keep the lake a relatively tranquil place, that doesn't glow into the sky. Those from the Philly Jersey area are well aware of the glow from Atlantic City that can be seen from Ocean City. I certainly believe that the Bahre's (I assume that is the mansion being referenced) have a right to enjoy their property. An occasional party here or there is nothing to get worked up about. But if they are constantly lighting up their property like a stadium, I can see how that could become bothersome, albeit not illegal.

05-25-2005, 03:58 PM	#11
islandAl Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mountonboro Posts: 200 Thanks: 12 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, there are ways to control light pollution Get the proposed legislation off dead center and passed. Probably need new filings as these are old. There are places where the lighting is controlled. http://www.mv.com/users/lopez/nhcrl/...Dec-98.v2.html http://www.mv.com/users/lopez/nhcrl/...22-MAR-99.html These are from the www.darksky.org web site. I think one of the most beautiful times is to lay out in the boat (tied to the dock) and listen to the crickets and frogs while star gazing. I remember when some relatives visited (from suburbs of Boston) and had some young children and they asked "why do you have more stars than we do"