Another big parcel for sale

[codeman671]

Camp Menotomy on Meredith Neck just hit the market. 95 acres and over 4500 feet of frontage. It will be a shame to see this developed.

Hopefully it won’t end up similar to what is being proposed in West Alton up on the hill.

[granitebox]

Do you have a link for the listing? I can't seem to find easily.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by granitebox

Do you have a link for the listing? I can't seem to find easily.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...52855288_zpid/

[fatlazyless]

95 acres, 4500' frontage on Lake Winnipesaukee way down Meredith Neck opposite Bear Island, price; twenty million dollars: Could be a nice spot for the State of New Hampshire to buy it and create a Menotomy State Park with a swimming beach and paddle boat area, camp ground for tents and walking trails.

[Grant]

It will get gobbled up, and McMansions with rolling green lawns will appear, and the folks on Bear Island will look out on another eyesore. Money always wins.

[FlyingScot]

Very sad--it brought joy to hundreds (thousands?) of kids every year

[Descant]

So, 200 new million dollar homes will give a big boost to the Meredith tax base. It will be fun to watch the spenders fight for that money while others will want to cut the tax rate.

This would be a nice parcel for the Meredith Conservation Commission to own.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Descant

So, 200 new million dollar homes will give a big boost to the Meredith tax base. It will be fun to watch the spenders fight for that money while others will want to cut the tax rate.

This would be a nice parcel for the Meredith Conservation Commission to own.

I believe "million dollar" homes means only one million since no "s", making it plural. They'll be worth more than the singular million.

And along with this goes more stress on a fragile infrastructure that can't handle the current mid-summer stress.

[tummyman]

Since it is assessed for $10.4M, any sale at or near the listed value will most likely drive Meredith assessments crazy for waterfront parcels.

[granitebox]

The valuation is:

$20,000,000/4515 feet frontage = $4430/frontage foot
or
$20,000,000/95.38 acres = $209,687/acre

Both of which seem fairly reasonable given other sales in the area and probably which will drive also drive a quick sale.

From the towns perspective - I'm betting they are happy to get this parcel back on the tax rolls in any form or fashion - can anyone calculate the property tax on just the land forget improvements for now.

[sky's]

were's John Mercier he knows everything hello John were all anxiously waiting.

[John Mercier]

About $103,000 at the assessed value of $10.4

But Tummyman is right. A sale at double the assessment is going to change everything... really just a matter of timing.

[Descant]

I expect most of the land is in "current use" so upon taking parcels out of current use, the town will get a substantial bonus in "land use change tax". Of course a developer could phase that, but the spenders will be developing plans for a new senior center with indoor/outdoor pools, twice the size of the Hub in Moultonborough.

Saving some waterfront for community use, you could still build, say, 40 waterfront homes. That assesses out for $100MM, plus whatever for another 160 homes in the woods at $500K each, is another $80MM in tax base.

Does Meredith have shorefrontage vs inland development zoning restrictions similar to Gilford where you need 150' of shorefront per residence? How many feet/far back does that go?

[John Mercier]

Well, its pending... so we should see some details emerge soon enough.

[4 for Boating]

The price to me seems low and now it's listed as pending after ONE DAY?

No waiting for other offers? No seeing if what can only be described as a unique and rare parcel would fetch more? It seems to me that the buyer was already selected long ago and the price agreed upon as well. Time will tell.

[John Mercier]

Listed for about 17 hours.
The landowner was approached.

[4 for Boating]

Interesting - so what's the reason/philosophy for officially listing the property on the MLS? Could have just been a private sale, no?

[hemlock]

Originally Posted by granitebox

The valuation is:

$20,000,000/4515 feet frontage = $4430/frontage foot
or
$20,000,000/95.38 acres = $209,687/acre

Both of which seem fairly reasonable given other sales in the area and probably which will drive also drive a quick sale.

From the towns perspective - I'm betting they are happy to get this parcel back on the tax rolls in any form or fashion - can anyone calculate the property tax on just the land forget improvements for now.

In 1965 my grandfather chose island waterfront as he could afford the 35 dollars a shore frontage foot for a 1/2 acre lot. Mainland lots were 110 dollars a shore front foot for a similar sized lot. The real difference is that he was a semi retired school district janitor who was a careful saver. I dont think we will ever see that again careful saver or not.

[Skippermark]

Looks like it might already have an offer. Status on Zillow says "pending..."

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Skippermark

Looks like it might already have an offer. Status on Zillow says "pending..."

It went under agreement almost immediately, I am sure the deal was already done but it had to be listed as a formality.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It went under agreement almost immediately, I am sure the deal was already done but it had to be listed as a formality.

There oughta be a law...

This frosts my cookies: I recall seeing a house I liked get listed with a sign pounded in the yard.

Within and hour of being listed I called the realtor and was informed it was sold.

Huh?

I offered to pay more than the asking price and was ignored.

Sweetheart deals...bah.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

There oughta be a law...

This frosts my cookies: I recall seeing a house I liked get listed with a sign pounded in the yard.

Within and hour of being listed I called the realtor and was informed it was sold.

Huh?

I offered to pay more than the asking price and was ignored.

Sweetheart deals...bah.

I went to an open house of a lake front home a few months ago. It was listed on MLS on a Wednesday and the open house was Saturday. When I got to the open house the agent said it was under agreement but they were taking back up offers.

[John Mercier]

It isn't just lakefront.

And double - or near double - the recent assessments seems to be the norm.

The peak birthrate was in 1959, so a lot of people are reaching the magic Medicare age when they can retire away from the big cities that they focused their careers around.

[4 for Boating]

I recall in the housing crash that we were actually looking for a little larger home. We saw an open house sign pop up out of nowhere a few blocks over from where we were and immediately went over to the event.

Long story short > the realtor pretty much told us that this was a foreclosure and the open house was just for show to prove to the bank that they were trying to get the best price/recovery $$ for the bank. aka - the home was already earmarked for someone > our guess was someone the realtor knew.

Saw it immediately go to pending and whoever got it - did so at a steal.

Certainly not what's going on here but your stories reminded me of an experience I had with some "funny business" years ago.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I went to an open house of a lake front home a few months ago. It was listed on MLS on a Wednesday and the open house was Saturday. When I got to the open house the agent said it was under agreement but they were taking back up offers.

Don't doubt that realtors with listings will do things to make sure their buyer gets the deal, ensuring that they get both side of the commission.

Sometimes that involves giving their buyer inside information about what the seller will accept or telling a buyer what the other offers are that the buyer will need to beat.

[root1]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Don't doubt that realtors with listings will do things to make sure their buyer gets the deal, ensuring that they get both side of the commission.

Sometimes that involves giving their buyer inside information about what the seller will accept or telling a buyer what the other offers are that the buyer will need to beat.

Present company excepted, additional members of that ilk may include Lawyers, Politicians, and Veterinarians.

[CrownRay]

Not unusual for it to be "gone" already.

My family sold our lake house 2 years ago. We did have an open house, and winning bidder paid 20K over the highest bid!

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Don't doubt that realtors with listings will do things to make sure their buyer gets the deal, ensuring that they get both side of the commission.

Sometimes that involves giving their buyer inside information about what the seller will accept or telling a buyer what the other offers are that the buyer will need to beat.

Since the seller is actually paying the realtor(s), propagating a lower price would result in theft by fraud...

As for letting buyers know what price they would need to beat... not really an issue as the current owner wants the higher price. Which is also in the interest of the realtor(s) being paid by the seller on both sides.

[steve-on-mark]

That's a lot of land for only 7 homes!

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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

That's a lot of land for only 7 homes!

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Exactly my thoughts. That puts the per unit land costs pretty high, before the development and site work starts!

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/us/new...terfront-homes

The Registered Agent on file for this company is Jeremy R Martin and is located at 21 Aviation Drive, Gilford, NH 03249. The company's principal address is Po Box 5457, Laconia, NH 03247

[Mr. V]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if instead of using a large tract to site McMansions, a developer envisioned and opened it up for "the little guy" like was done when Lake Shore Park was created?

Too bad "the little guy" is priced out of Winnipesaukee.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Exactly my thoughts. That puts the per unit land costs pretty high, before the development and site work starts!

https://bnnbreaking.com/world/us/new...terfront-homes

The Registered Agent on file for this company is Jeremy R Martin and is located at 21 Aviation Drive, Gilford, NH 03249. The company's principal address is Po Box 5457, Laconia, NH 03247

He is also tied into the controversial project being proposed in Alton off Cherry Valley Rd. The owners of the land are founders of Toast.

It went quick, must be a cash deal. I don’t k ow this Martin guy, but wonder if the Grimm clan is somehow involved as well. They live not far from there on Veazy Shore.

[John Mercier]

Lakes Region Design is a client.
And the situation is touchy, not only based on the Alton project, but other notable land deals that are happening in the area.

The lake and Gunstock are becoming predominate factors. Buyers are looking for four season recreational opportunities nearby... with quiet being a first order request.

[tis]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

That's a lot of land for only 7 homes!

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We thought that too. With development, site work etc. what do they think they will sell those houses for? Almost 10 million each? Yikes. Although one sold recently in Wolfeboro for around 12 million.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by tis

We thought that too. With development, site work etc. what do they think they will sell those houses for? Almost 10 million each? Yikes. Although one sold recently in Wolfeboro for around 12 million.

I’d rather see 7 big ones than 20 small ones, at least as far as overall appearance of the shoreline. They should be well spaced, not crammed on top of each other.

[Descant]

"Whispering Pines" is a 275 lot trailer park in Derry NH. Who was the marketing genius who came up with that name for elite homes on Lake Winnipesaukee? They should have bought the name "Menotomy" too if they want to pay homage to history.

I hope the developers will consult with NHLAKES and participate in the "Lake Smart" program for shorefront and water quality protection.

Gotta go...I hear my helicopter coming.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by tis

We thought that too. With development, site work etc. what do they think they will sell those houses for? Almost 10 million each? Yikes. Although one sold recently in Wolfeboro for around 12 million.

Maybe one of the rich entertainers that play in Gilford will like the area so much they will make it their home.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Maybe one of the rich entertainers that play in Gilford will like the area so much they will make it their home.

Maybe. I guess there is enough money around the lake.

[upthesaukee]

BUSINESS
Former Girl Scout camp on Lake Winnipesaukee's Meredith Neck sells for $18 million
By John Koziol Union Leader Correspondent Feb 16, 2024 Updated 6 hrs ago


The entrance to Camp Menotomy at 386 Meredith Neck Road, shown on Thursday. The former Girl Scout camp was listed for sale at $20 million on Feb. 9 and sold the next day for $18 million.

John Koziol/Union Leader Correspondent
MEREDITH — The former 95-acre Camp Menotomy Girl Scout Camp on Meredith Neck has been sold for $18 million to a developer who plans to build seven waterfront homes on the site.

Most recently owned by the Camp Menotomy Trust, in care of the Boston-based Girl Scouts of Eastern Massachusetts, the property at 386 Meredith Neck Road went on the market on Feb. 9 for $20 million, according to Realtor.com, and was removed on Feb. 11.

The listing agent was Susan Bradley.

The property was purchased by Menotomy Development LLC for $18 million. The developer is Jeremy R. Martin, president of Lakes Region Design Group in Laconia.

The project, to be called The Preserve at Whispering Pines, is in the early stages of planning, and no formal submissions have been made to the town of Meredith, according to a project spokesperson.

Plans call for construction of seven private, single-family custom-built homes along approximately 5,000 feet of waterfront, Scott Tranchemontagne of the Montagne Powers public relations firm said in an email to the Union Leader.

He noted that current regulations would have permitted “approximately 25 home lots” on the site.

He said the homes will be set back from the shoreline by at least 125 feet and will be connected to Meredith Neck Road by a new private roadway built to town specifications.

“Approximately 30 percent of the property” will be preserved, with new walking trails featuring markers detailing the history of the Girl Scout camp, and an existing loon sanctuary on the southern cove will be protected, he said.

On its website, the Meredith Historical Society says that Camp Menotomy “was formerly Camp Wauganakit for boys until 1935” and was purchased in 1939 by Arlington Girl Scouts Inc.

From 1963 to 1980, the camp was operated by the Mistick Side Girl Scout Council, and then by the Patriots’ Trail Girl Scout Council.

The Historical Society said “Menotomy” is the old Native American name for the area now known as Arlington. It translates to “place of swift running water.”

For the 2023 tax year, the town assessed the former camp’s value at $10.41 million. The property contains an office building 36 tent platforms; five cabins; an infirmary; a shower house; two bath houses; five open sheds with sinks; several outbuildings; and a dock.

According to town records, some of the improvements were made as recently as 2006.

The camp’s fate has been a topic of online discussion on the Winnipesaukee forum since Feb. 10.

Several people on the forum expressed the hope that the property would be developed sensibly. Others pointed out that the consequence of such a significant sale “will most likely drive Meredith assessments crazy for waterfront parcels.”

One person wrote that the Town will be happy “to get this parcel back on the tax rolls in any form or fashion….”

The sale of Camp Menotomy is one of the largest property transfers in Meredith in recent memory, along the lines of Rusty McLear’s sale of Hampshire Hospitality Holdings to TPG Hotels & Resorts, of Rhode Island, in April 2019.

Although McLear didn’t disclose the sales price for the Church Landing, Inn at Mill Falls, Bay Point at Mill Falls, Chase House and Mill Falls Marketplace, he told the Laconia Daily Sun that it was “well north” of the town’s $25 million cumulative assessment of those properties.

LakesNews@unionleader.com

Dave

[thinkxingu]

And, just like that, a mile of Winni waterfront is lost to the many and gained by seven.

*sigh*

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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

And, just like that, a mile of Winni waterfront is lost to the many and gained by seven.

*sigh*

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Sounds like the argument being made by the overnight mooring group...

Interesting thing will be to see how it affects other property values.
Will some of the smaller lots around the lake be bought up for tear down to create larger lakefront estates?

[Susie Cougar]

I appreciate the fact that this seems to be a very well planned development. The size of the lots are perfect for privacy.

Does anyone think that there could be a commercial aspect to the property? There is going to be a very nice walking trail through the old property with signs explaining different aspects of the camp. Although anyone buying one of these houses would enjoy the open space behind them, it seems to me like this would be for different guests each week or two.

[John Mercier]

To my knowledge... nothing of that nature has been provided either publicly or privately.

About a third will be conservation, that my understanding is will be open to certain types of public access.

Other than that... the only public statement was seven waterfront homes.

[4 for Boating]

Most everyone would rather not see more homes on the lake at this point but I agree that 7 homes for such a parcel may be the best possible outcome one could hope for. Of course the devil is in the details but it sounds like they are taking a measured approach respecting the area/original use... Will be interesting to see the plans for the homes themselves and a timeline.

[John Mercier]

It is possible that both projects would proceed at the same time.
But Alton is further along in the permitting.

[fatlazyless]

So, maybe the new 18-million dollar owner of Camp Menotomy will want to donate the 25% of the 95-acres, all along the Meredith Neck Rd, that appears to be a swampy wet lands to the town conservation as a public service plus avoiding annual property tax on it?

Is that correct? ........

[garysanfran]

My neighbor sent me the following...

See attached deed granting Menotomy to the Arlington Girl Scouts. It says the trustees cannot sell it unless they go out of business (which they haven’t). If they did go out of business, then the next step was to try to find an entity of “like goals and ideals” to take it over (which they didn’t). Such an entity would likely have to be another girls camp (or maybe a boys camp could qualify). They would presumably be entitled to take it over for the same $1/yr rent that AGS was paying the trustees. Exhausting that search was the only way they were allowed to sell it. Problem is that only someone with standing could intervene to stop the sale, and that would only be the heirs of the grantors or any entity with those “like goals and ideals” who could contend that they were denied their right to take it over. My guess is that they paid the heirs (if there are any left) to quiet them, and they are hoping that none of the other area camps raise a stink

[fatlazyless]

On January 24, 2024, "After 23 years of dedicated service, the Chief Executive Officer of Girl Scouts of Eastern Massachusetts has announced her retirement, effective June 2024."

http://www.gsema.org/en/news/gsema-c...etirement.html

Gotta wonder if this has anything to do with this 18-million dollar sale of Camp Menotomy. You know what they say ...... follow the money ......?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

My neighbor sent me the following...

See attached deed granting Menotomy to the Arlington Girl Scouts. It says the trustees cannot sell it unless they go out of business (which they haven’t). If they did go out of business, then the next step was to try to find an entity of “like goals and ideals” to take it over (which they didn’t). Such an entity would likely have to be another girls camp (or maybe a boys camp could qualify). They would presumably be entitled to take it over for the same $1/yr rent that AGS was paying the trustees. Exhausting that search was the only way they were allowed to sell it. Problem is that only someone with standing could intervene to stop the sale, and that would only be the heirs of the grantors or any entity with those “like goals and ideals” who could contend that they were denied their right to take it over. My guess is that they paid the heirs (if there are any left) to quiet them, and they are hoping that none of the other area camps raise a stink

This is very interesting. I heard through the grapevine that they did try, but I do not know if they tried very hard or what the legal standard of try would be in this case. It's hard to understand how the summer camp business could be so tough that no one could do it with free land. OTOH, I guess camps have always had "free" land

[codeman671]

Why did the camp shudder operations originally? All of the existing camps that I know of are full every season, and unless you start looking into booking in the fall for the following summer you usually cannot get in.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Why did the camp shudder operations originally? All of the existing camps that I know of are full every season, and unless you start looking into booking in the fall for the following summer you usually cannot get in.

I would imagine with that much property, the cost to keep it up and run seasonally just wouldn't make sense, esp with help in such short supply now.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I would imagine with that much property, the cost to keep it up and run seasonally just wouldn't make sense, esp with help in such short supply now.

I don't know, but Camp Lawrence and Nokomis seem to be doing great, and they have the extra complication of boating to get there. Granted these are YMCA, not Girl Scouts of America.

Camp Cody, Bernadette and Fatima are always booked up. Menotomy has been closed for years.

On a side note, according to Wikipedia, Camp Fatima, a catholic boys camp was founded by Richard Boner in 1949. Comical if actually true! I'd say someone is messing around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_F...(New_Hampshire)

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I don't know, but Camp Lawrence and Nokomis seem to be doing great, and they have the extra complication of boating to get there. Granted these are YMCA, not Girl Scouts of America.

Camp Cody, Bernadette and Fatima are always booked up. Menotomy has been closed for years.

On a side note, according to Wikipedia, Camp Fatima, a catholic boys camp was founded by Richard Boner in 1949. Comical if actually true! I'd say someone is messing around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_F...(New_Hampshire)

You know I could run with this, but even though my wife tells me to go " there " on a daily basis, my Catholic school upbringing taught me that Hell isn't really a cool place to be , so I'll refrain from any comments. Remember to remind me to tell you a story next time we're hanging out though!

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[fatlazyless]

Probably, naming this 95-acre, Lake Winnipesaukee summer Girl Scout camp with its name, Camp Menotomy, back on July 2 1935 was maybe not the best choice for a name.

Its name, Camp Menotomy, sounds way too much like Camp Monotony, don't you think?

Running a successful eight week summer camp, now just seven weeks, is a very tough task and needs a very strong director/owner who is all fired up, all year 'round, to make it a happening and happy camp.

If the camp had a better name, something like Camp Marvelous coupled with a strong director/owner who lived and breathed the operation of the camp, all year around, it would still be a going camp, today!

[fatlazyless]

From Camp Menotomy, way back in the time machine, going back to 1939, 1944, 1956 ...... https://www.lwhs.us/menotomy.htm .....when it looked like a happening summer camp.

I took a walk through the camp sometime about October 2012, before it got all posted 'no trespassing' as was a local practice back then and there were NO camper cabins, anywhere, and these non-existent cabins had no bunks and no bathrooms as they got replaced with tent platforms, or something(?).

Apparently, about 15-20 elevated tent platforms were there which had replaced the old cabins and there was nothing there in the way of electricity, plumbing, or indoor bathrooms ...... just tent platforms in groups of five in four different shoreline, forested locations.

No tennis courts, no indoor gym, no outdoor basketball court, no barn with horses, no coral, no pasture, no riding ring, no manicured and clipped green grass fields, no owners mansion cabin, no infirmary, no main lodge, no senior lodge, no junior lodge, no counselors shack, no cooks cabin, no library, no rainy day gymnastics cabin.

There was one grass all-purpose athletic field.

The one and only building which is there now is probably a dining room and kitchen with small living quarters, and two bathrooms as is shown in the Zillow listing.

The waterfront had a permanent dock which is still in place in the lake but there were no small boats like row boats, Sunfish or canoes, no water ski boat. No waterfront small buildings like for paddle and pfd storage or waterfront staff support.

It was mostly an untouched big pine trees and rocky shoreline Lake Winnipesaukee location that was very short on facilities and on campers, too, at least in 2012. Believe the last eight week Girl Scout full summer session was held in the year, 2000, 24-summers ago.

Maybe someone who attended the Camp Whispering Pines one week or two week sessions held there in the last twenty years in July and August can make a reply here.