Skydive Laconia?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

That should help convince them.

You really think anything said on this forum will sway them one way or the other? I think their minds are already made up. But, I too can't wait until those clowns have to swallow that bitter pill once the FAA approves this!

[TheNoonans]

You really think anything said on this forum will sway them one way or the other? I think their minds are already made up.

Personally I don't believe that any information on this thread has, or will sway anyone on the LAA. They made up their minds in July 2008 when we first approached them, before they ever even saw our proposal. This is THEIR airport and they will run it the way THEY want, regardless of proper procedure and due process. It was, is and continues to be, an example of a local political machine at it's worst.

I post what I post here for a couple of reasons:
1) To educate the intelligent masses here on the forum that refuse to give into the fear mongering. To the citizens that are being denied new jobs and additional economic stimulus. I post for their benefit, to keep them in formed.
2) To provide a permanent record of the mismanagement of this process by the LAA and the local elected officials, so that when the next election rolls around, the citizenry of these communities can demand accountability for the actions of those put in power to serve them.
and
3) To continue to communicate, even in a one way capacity, with both the LAA and those elected officials. They are all on here reading this, despite never being willing to respond publicly. Ironic, huh?

Since I found this thread, I have been an open book. I post honest and factual information, while the other side hides, refusing to take a public stand. I post to continue to show you that I am not afraid of the facts or the truth, that I invite anyone to challenge the veracity of my statements.

I stand up. They hide.

Does that bother you? It should.

But in the end, look where we are from post #1, where you were warned about those two "floridians" that were trying to drop skydivers on to the airport, over "YOUR homes".

Facts have thrown out every argument that they have made.
1) Landing parachutes on the airport (even AOPA recognizes that as the appropriate method).
2) Size of the airport (everywhere else in the country, similar size and traffic airports support skydiving)
3) We will lose our jets! (Sorry, the NASCAR guys and the John Marriots will still show up, they said so)
4) Landing on the object free area of grass (already happening around the country)
5) Flight schools and No Radio GA traffic (already established by the FAA that's not an issue)
6) Skill of the operators (Despite the cowardly actions of the LAA claiming my stance on aircraft/skydiver collisions is of concern, the rest of the free world continues to consider me a global expert on tandem skydiving safety)
7) Jets "may have some" insurance problems with parachutes (not from any insurance carriers anyone knows of)

and so on and so...........

We met every one of their concerns HEAD ON, never shying away, never backing down. We brought the facts and the truth with us and because of that, they have never been able make any valid argument against us.

Remember all of this come election time. The people you put in office and that are placed on the LAA board are meant to serve you. You are not meant to serve them.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[NoBozo]

Hi TOM: I have posted here before with my thoughts. I am a Pilot and have no problem with your proposal..support your IDEA.

I FAIL to understand WHY you still PUSH to Land in Laconia with Skydive Laconia..when you are clearly not wanted by the people on the ground ..."At The Airport."

IF the FAA says you CAN land there.....NOW What..? You have to rent hanger space, office space, purchase fuel, aircraft maintnenance... THEY will not be your friends. ...

SO what is your obsession here..????? I am your friend.. just wondering..NB

EDIT: BTW: Maybe you could drop the ..Always: "Blue Skies To All And To All A Good Flight". I'm sure it just totally aggravates THEM...and doesn't advance your case. NB

[Pineedles]

NB, your post is nothing but an attempt to stir a pot that Tom has refused to participate in.

[TheNoonans]

Hi Pineedles,

Thank you for your support. (I really don't mind responding though.)

Hi NB,

I covered the answer to "Why here?" further up the thread in terms of location and my refusal to be bullied by a handful of locals that don't like seeing things change, even if the change is lawful, economically sound and (despite their claims) doesn't create an unsafe condition on the airfield.

As for them not wanting to be our friends? That's really their loss, not ours. Believe it or not our presence could increase their profits as well, they just fail to see that, because they are blinded by their emotional attachment to the issue.

I've stated before, there a number of hangar owners willing to work with us. They want to work with us and we want to work with them. We will make them lots of money and they will help us make lots of money. Not a bad deal.

As for the FBOs not selling us fuel? Believe me, short of the chief of the FAA Randy Babbitt, every agent of the FAA from here to Los Angeles is watching this. When I say that the LAA and the FBOs will be under a microscope when this is over, trust me, they will be. Any signs of discrimination and they lose their funding.

My "obsession" here is simply truth and justice in America.

As for friends, I have enough friends around the world to not be worried about how a handful of "small town good old boys" will react to our presence on the airfield. Let it bother them all they want, it won't bother us at all.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[Jonas Pilot]

With all those friends around the world why wouldn't you go someplace else where you are more welcome? Why cheat them of the benefits of your presence?

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

With all those friends around the world why wouldn't you go someplace else where you are more welcome? Why cheat them of the benefits of your presence?

Hi JP. To answer your two part question in a nutshell!
The world is no longer flat, and we need many more wonderful people like the Noonans right here, right now!!!!

Would you please readjust your js?

Terry
________________________________

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

With all those friends around the world why wouldn't you go someplace else where you are more welcome? Why cheat them of the benefits of your presence?

They have plenty of friends and supporters here, don't worry. They are quite welcome here by everyone but the royalty at the town government (or those who think they are) and apparently you, No Bozo and a handful of others.

Tom, you're almost home. These posts are evidence. Don't give up now, we're behind you. On the other hand, we need more guys like you...how about a 2012 run for president?

Laconia traffic, this is N0---Y on westbound departure Runway 26.... no parachutes in my way!

[NoBozo]

I think a couple of you people need to go back and read my post again. I am in FAVOR of Tom's idea. NB

PS: Here's another way to frame it. Lets say you were interested in buying a house in a certain neighborhood, and while you were looking at the house with your real estate agent, a number of your neighbors to be came over and told you .."You are not welcome here". Would you still want to move in with such nice neighbors next door. Just sayin.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I think a couple of you people need to go back and read my post again. I am in FAVOR of Tom's idea. NB

PS: Here's another way to frame it. Lets say you were interested in buying a house in a certain neighborhood, and while you were looking at the house with your real estate agent, a number of your neighbors to be came over and told you .."You are not welcome here". Would you still want to move in with such nice neighbors next door. Just sayin.

I agree with this situation becuase it is residential, I think it is a different ball game with a business

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by AC2717

I agree with this situation becuase it is residential, I think it is a different ball game with a business

I will ditto that!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Hi TOM: I have posted here before with my thoughts. I am a Pilot and have no problem with your proposal..support your IDEA.

I FAIL to understand WHY you still PUSH to Land in Laconia with Skydive Laconia..when you are clearly not wanted by the people on the ground ..."At The Airport."

IF the FAA says you CAN land there.....NOW What..? You have to rent hanger space, office space, purchase fuel, aircraft maintnenance... THEY will not be your friends. ...

SO what is your obsession here..????? I am your friend.. just wondering..NB

EDIT: BTW: Maybe you could drop the ..Always: "Blue Skies To All And To All A Good Flight". I'm sure it just totally aggravates THEM...and doesn't advance your case. NB

Using your logic, the civil rights movement never would have happened. Sometimes, doing the right thing is hard, both for you and other people. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't go ahead and do it. Due process and equal treatment under the law are bedrock American principles. Choosing to abandon those principles simply because you're "not wanted" at a certain location strikes me as being un-American.

[jrc]

This is never simple and clear. The Noonans are lucky that they have the connections, money and stamina to fight this battle. How many times does a situation like this go unnoticed by the public. Someone applies for a business permit, the neigboring business find out and calls his buddy on the board, permit denied.

People have been talking about the dollar cost of big government a lot lately but this shows the other cost, maybe corruption is too strong a word but definitely this smacks of political favoritism. When government people are favoring one business over another, it's not right.

I see how the housing and civil rights seems like it fits, but the harm here is purely financial. In the civil rights case, it was a henious crime intending to strip a person of basic human rights.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by jrc

I see how the housing and civil rights seems like it fits, but the harm here is purely financial. In the civil rights case, it was a henious crime intending to strip a person of basic human rights.

Oh, I agree that discrimination based on race, religion, ethnicity, etc. is much more offensive than a group of locals wanting to keep a newcomer out to protect their turf, but the general principle is the same. And don't think that there aren't financial aspects to racial discrimination.

[tis]

Originally Posted by jrc

This is never simple and clear. The Noonans are lucky that they have the connections, money and stamina to fight this battle. How many times does a situation like this go unnoticed by the public. Someone applies for a business permit, the neigboring business find out and calls his buddy on the board, permit denied.

People have been talking about the dollar cost of big government a lot lately but this shows the other cost, maybe corruption is too strong a word but definitely this smacks of political favoritism. When government people are favoring one business over another, it's not right.

I see how the housing and civil rights seems like it fits, but the harm here is purely financial. In the civil rights case, it was a henious crime intending to strip a person of basic human rights.

It happens all the time. I KNEW he was going to have a hard time when he first posted.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

Using your logic, the civil rights movement never would have happened. Sometimes, doing the right thing is hard, both for you and other people. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't go ahead and do it. Due process and equal treatment under the law are bedrock American principles. Choosing to abandon those principles simply because you're "not wanted" at a certain location strikes me as being un-American.

I don't think this has anything to do with the Cival Rights Movement. NB

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I don't think this has anything to do with the Cival Rights Movement. NB

I'm not saying that the disagreement over locating a skydiving operation at the Laconia airport is a civil rights issue. Obviously, it's not. What I am saying is that using your logic (don't try to force yourself in where you're not wanted), the civil rights movement, at least as we know it, would not have happened. No civil disobediance. No sit-ins at lunch counters. No school integration. We would still have separate but (not so) equal. Would you have advised MLK and his compatriots to not try and force themselves in where they're not wanted? If not, what's the difference in your mind between exercising your rights in one instance but not another, when local sentiment is against you?

The Noonans have a right, within established rules and regulations, to open a business where they damn well please. I think that you probably agree with that. If they end up getting permission to operate at KLCI, the decision to do so shouldn't be dictated by NIMBYs who for whatever reason would prefer that they go elsewhere.

[trfour]

WE, elect people to Govern us... The Noonans have come here in good faith, and of heart to open both an economically sound proposal for a New and to continue to add to an very important tourist destination, ( Area significant )... Wise?

Local government sure has No help from the Hill, these days.
No A'Wake, No progress!... However, we will remember them maybe when we are all in default!..


I know that this is a very long thread, but pretty Please read all of it before you post a reply!
Terry
____________________________


Remember that; All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by TMI Guy

I'm not saying that the disagreement over locating a skydiving operation at the Laconia airport is a civil rights issue. Obviously, it's not. What I am saying is that using your logic (don't try to force yourself in where you're not wanted), the civil rights movement, at least as we know it, would not have happened. No civil disobediance. No sit-ins at lunch counters. No school integration. We would still have separate but (not so) equal. Would you have advised MLK and his compatriots to not try and force themselves in where they're not wanted? If not, what's the difference in your mind between exercising your rights in one instance but not another, when local sentiment is against you?

The Noonans have a right, within established rules and regulations, to open a business where they damn well please. I think that you probably agree with that. If they end up getting permission to operate at KLCI, the decision to do so shouldn't be dictated by NIMBYs who for whatever reason would prefer that they go elsewhere.

NB has said he supports the Noonans and their right to do business. He was questioning the practicality of co-existing where they were not wanted.

Using your logic, I take it you support Northern Pass' right to open their business wherever they (damn well) please and equate it to the Civil Rights movement.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

NB has said he supports the Noonans and their right to do business. He was questioning the practicality of co-existing where they were not wanted.

Using your logic, I take it you support Northern Pass' right to open their business wherever they (damn well) please and equate it to the Civil Rights movement.

I had to Google "Northern Pass" because I had no idea what it was. I won't offer an opinion on your comparison because I don't have enough information to do so.

The point that I was trying to make, which apparently I wasn't making very well, is that to give up and go away simply because some people might not want you around (whether it's because of the color of your skin or because you're not a local and your presence will upset the status quo), even when you have every legal and moral right to be there, smacks of defeatism. It's not the kind of attitude that made (and makes) America a great country.

I'll give the Noonans the benefit of the doubt and presume that they've done an analysis that shows Laconia to be the best place to locate their skydiving business. Maybe that's why they're being so persistent. If what Tom is saying is accurate, and his proposed business can thrive and coexist with other airport users, maybe those who are against him will change their minds, if he is given a chance. Who knows, they might even see some benefit from the additional people who come to the airport. But to turn tail and give up solely because potential neighbors want you to go away is wrong.

[VitaBene]

Tom,

Have you looked at Moultonborough Airport?

Moultonboro Airport
Runway 02-20
Length: 3,475' x 50'
Lighting: PCL (non-standard)
Surface: Asphalt
Inst. App. None
Fuel: 100LL (24/7 self serve)

I live on the other side of Berry Pond from it and would welcome the sight of you flying over and floating to earth at Mboro Airport.

I have a 5 acre field in front of my house on which I will paint all sorts of landing zones for you to practice on.

[trfour]

I can understand that some would try to suggest other alternatives for the Noonans to open an skydiving operation.
Just who, in their right mind would try to deny them, in any neighborhood around this planet??

The Noonans typify ( World Class ) and fully deserve a place right here at LACONIA airport!!

Should/or would it be fair that the people of NH are Way and far behind future well being?? I think not...

Tom has ( And Very Eli quaintly and very Clearly Stated ) in post # 307-4/26/2011, some of where he came from, and will continue on to.
Quote; Speaking of human nature, let me try to put this in perspective for you.

Back in the 1800s, my great grand parents arrived in Boston from Ireland. When they arrived, do you think they were welcome? I can assure that they were not. They were repeatedly told they were not welcome and told to go home. They refused to accept the status quo and stayed. They were then relegated to tenement housing and back breaking labor, because the Irish were considered outsiders and second class citizens. As my grand parents were attempting to seek a better life and leave the tenement housing for the blue collar suburbs of Boston, they too were again told they were not welcome. They refused to let the will of others affect their futures. My parents carried that resolve further, wanting yet an even better life for their children, and did the same thing. They refused to accept the will of others telling them they were not welcome in higher social circles. See the pattern?

It's in my genes.

Our cause is just and our resolve is unconquerable. There will come a day when this process reaches an end. I can't promise that we will be victorious, but I can promise that we will never lay down for anyone and we will fight for what is right until the last bell is rung.

There is only one person that will determine the outcome of my life, my future and my American Dream, and that is me. I apologize if that has inconvenienced a few people on the LAA.

We all have dreams we believe in and are told by others to quit. Some quit, others fight. Those that choose to fight can understand our resolve. Those that choose to quit will never understand our resolve.

"I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul"

- W. Henley (from Invictus)

[TheNoonans]

Hi VB,

Moultonborough is a beautiful community, but for the business model that we intend to pursue, the close proximity between Weirs Beach and the airport is critical.

While I am on here, I was actually in the area again this past weekend and ran into yet another private jet pilot, this one flies them all over New England as part of a fractional ownership company. He has flown into and out of Laconia many many times.

So......I asked the big questions:
1) Would you stop flying into or out of Laconia if there was a parachute operation landing parachutes on the airport?
Answer: (Again) "Are you kidding me? I'm a pilot, I can fly anywhere."
2) What about taxiing past parachutists as they walk across the field?
Answer: (Again) "I'm a pilot, I can taxi past anything. I do it whenever I fly into or out of any of the other airports with parachuting on them.
3) (My favorite question) Have you ever heard of an insurance policy preventing landing jets at an airport with an on airport parachute operation?
Answer: (Again......) "Seriously, are you kidding me? In my entire professional career, I have never heard of such a thing."


Why are all these pilot surveys so important to you, the citizens of the community that is supposed to be benefiting from your airport?

To date, in three+ years, I have only heard two jet pilots willing to go on record against landing at an airport with parachutes on it. Both pilots are associated with Sky Bright Aviation located on the airport. One is the owner and the other pilot flies for him......... Other than that, I have never heard of a jet pilot with concerns about landing at an airport with an on airport skydiving operation.

For those of you that were at that first meeting in Dec 2008 you would have remembered a pilot of Sky Bright Aviation tell the LAA and all those in attendance about how she was startled (or surprised) by the presence of an onsite parachute operation at an airport located in Belmar, NJ.

The short version of the story is that while landing a private jet at Belmar, NJ, the pilot did not know there was a dropzone there and was surprised to see parachutes landing on the airport and had to make some heading correction to account for the parachutes.

Here is the factual truth to that story, and anyone that was there that night and was/is willing to stand up for the truth, will agree: The pilot stated that she was surprised by the parachutes (or some word similar to surprised). She stated that she was unaware of any parachute activity in the area, was coming in for landing, saw parachutes, and was startled, flying someone's multimillion dollar airplane......

The truth: Belmar, NJ has had a permanent NOTAM for skydiving for like the last 15-20 years. It's in all the charts. When pilots are doing their flight planning, they are supposed to check the charts of the airports they are flying into before they fly into it..... If the charts were checked ahead of time, there would be no way for the pilot to be surprised to find parachutes in the pattern or on an airport with a parachute center. The only way to be surprised, is not to know there is a parachute center there in the first place. The only way not to know that is to not check your charts before you file your flight plan.

Now, even if the pilot forgot to check the charts ahead of time, or even if she did, and simply failed to see the large parachute over the airport indicating that the airport has a permanent skydiving NOTAM, the skydiving aircraft pilots at Belmar, NJ broadcast every take off on the local frequency, call 2 minutes prior to drop to all aircraft on the same frequency and again announce when they drop skydivers "Skydivers in the air over Belmar, NJ, 10,000ft and below, use caution" or something to that effect.

So.......Why wasn't anyone in the flight crew of that multimillion dollar jet listening to the local frequency when approaching a non-towered executive airport? If they had been listening, again, there would have been no way to be surprised by the parachutes in the air. They would have known ahead of time.

So.........the reason I share this story now, is that it brings up an important issue.

To all of those in attendance that night in December 2008, they were treated to a genuine "Oh my goodness" story about a pilot that was startled by parachutes while flying a private jet.

The truth is, she never once said "I knew parachutes were there and I looked for them and couldn't see them." She stated something to the effect that she was unaware there was parachutes landing on the airfield and was startled when she saw one in flight.

(And for those of you following along back home, I believe that very story was even quoted in one of the local papers at the time.)

And that story was supposed to scare everyone in attendance into believing private jets and parachutes can't mix on the same airfield.

So again, I state for the record, I have never met a private jet pilot without direct ties to the Laconia airport that has ever had any issue whatsoever with flying into or out of Laconia if there is a parachute operation on the airfield.

Funny though, how this FBO with the photo of a jet colliding with a tandem skydiving pair in their window and the LAA want you to believe jets and skydiving are such a terrible combination.

Remember the airport belongs to the community, the community does not belong to the airport........

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[Pineedles]

Moultonborough airport is a ghosttown. Not the model for a sucessfull parachuting business! Everytime I drive past there, there are no planes taking off, nor is there any cars parked to await rides to see views of scenic NH.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Moultonborough airport is a ghosttown. Not the model for a sucessfull parachuting business! Everytime I drive past there, there are no planes taking off, nor is there any cars parked to await rides to see views of scenic NH.

I understand Tom's choice of location and business plan. I was just offering an area alternative.

I guess I was looking at skydiving being the destination, not a drive-by activity. One of the popular (I think) places is in Pepperell MA, but people drive many miles to jump there.

[Pineedles]

VB,

I tried to send you a PM but your MB is full. Tom knows what market he needs to be in. You and I are on the same page though, we both want him to succeed.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

VB,

I tried to send you a PM but your MB is full. Tom knows what market he needs to be in. You and I are on the same page though, we both want him to succeed.

Sorry, cleaned it out! yep, I hate seeing people going through the grinder when they try to do something a little outside the box.

[Gatto Nero]

A crew of at least 10 of us are driving to Maine on Monday to jump at Skydive New England. It's my birthday present to my 18 year old daughter and my entire family will be jumping. We did the same thing for my son's 18th two years ago and there were almost 20 of us. The people at Skydive NE were great but it's too bad we have to drive all the way there instead of staying in our own back yard.

Keep at it Tom. We'll be eager to jump with you when all this is has been resolved.

[TheNoonans]

With the recent rise of social media online it has become easier to track the popularity of certain activities and sports based on the "hits" that they receive when posted online.

I invite you all to view a clip uploaded 4 months ago by a friend of mine in Melbourne, Australia. 1.7 million views on vimeo and 200,000 views on youtube, in just under 4 months.



This type of interest could be leading people to the Laconia Municipal Airport. They would be patronizing your stores while they were there.

As the economy continues to spiral downward and the end of your tourist season approaches, I ask the business owners of the area to consider this:

Are you happy with your current level of tourism patronage, or would you prefer additional customers and an extended tourist season?

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,
Tom

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

A crew of at least 10 of us are driving to Maine on Monday to jump at Skydive New England. It's my birthday present to my 18 year old daughter and my entire family will be jumping. We did the same thing for my son's 18th two years ago and there were almost 20 of us. The people at Skydive NE were great but it's too bad we have to drive all the way there instead of staying in our own back yard.

Keep at it Tom. We'll be eager to jump with you when all this is has been resolved.

And of course you won't be spending money in Maine on the following:

Gas
Food
Tolls
Lodging
Trinkets
The Jump itself

Is there anyone in Laconia or NH listening? NH people leaving the state to BUY stuff out of state because of some really stupid people in a position of power.