Milfoil Spraying

[Greene's Basin Girl]

I was kayaking today and I saw that they were spraying for milfoil. I saw them doing this just outside Green's Basin near Marker 52.

[IslandRadio]

They did Small's cove last week. There were warnings posted at West Alton Marina. I wonder how effective this is against the milfoil..

Regards,

Steve

[phoenix]

yes the sections of green's basin that didn't get done last June due to the " minnow" issue and was treated sept 15th

[The Eagle]

I was told last week, the spraying being done now, in Moultonboro (Green's Basin'" area), isn't to kill the weeds now living, but to sterilize the seeds that were deposited by those plants that survived the initial spraying, and keep them from "Spawning" in the spring. I don't know how much truth is in that, but that is what I was told (by a local).
"The Eagle"

[phoenix]

The area that was done last week wasn't done in June as I live there

[Lakegeezer]

My understanding is the chemical is a variant of 2,4-D, which is is a broad leaf weed killer that works as a fertilizer. The Wikipedia to information about 2,4-D is here. Basically, it says; It is absorbed through the leaves and is translocated to the meristems of the plant. Uncontrolled, unsustainable growth ensues, causing stem curl-over, leaf withering, and eventual plant death.

There were quite a few plants that went to seed this year, so it will be interesting to see how effective it is at reducing the population.

[The Eagle]

Thanks for the insite Lakegeezer, but it makes ME think! 2-4D was part of the chemical composition used in Vietnam (2-4-5 T, as we knew it) "Agent Orange", as it now commonly known, and caused a lot of problems, that would take a lot of space debating. Is it REALLY safe to use? (Before anyone answers...we were told (combat personal in Vietnam) 2,4,5 T was "Safe," but as we have all learned, many of us (including ME) "the hard way," is wasn't. The broadweed and other invasive plants are a problem, but the 2,4 D, now that it is mentioned, concerns me deeply. Does it bother anyone else?
The Eagle

[newbie]

I am not concerned, while I cannot comment on the chemicals use in Vietnam, I was only 7 at the height of the war, if you look at the label on your lawn fertilizer that has weed control, they all use 2-4-D. Almost all of your vegetables and fruit that we consume in this country (save a small portion of natural or organics foods) have been treated with chemicals that have 2-4-D. I believe that it is one of the most widely used chemicals today.

With that being said, while I would not recommend drinking the chemical, use correctly and according the the label, it is "safe".

[The Eagle]

Hi Newbie,
It's not the 2,4 that bothers (Concerns) me, it's the "D".. (Dioxin, causes Birth Defects, miscarriages, learning disorders, cancer, to only name a few) It's like saying taking a little "poison" won't hurt you. My concern would be people, kids especially, "going in the water," after they sprayed (which they DID tell people NOT to do, and ignoring that warning) and having any open wounds. You can take my word for it, or ask ANYONE who served in Vietnam.."D" (dioxin) also means "Death!" Only time will tell! However, I respect your opinion, and Thank you for your post!
"The Eagle"

[fpartri497]

last week the state sprayed for milfoil everywhere Inside west alton marine from the entrance to the channel, by the sandbar to the very end of pirates cove In the marina.

the water then turned amurky colour but It looks like It killed off most of the millfoil witch was very bad.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by The Eagle

Hi Newbie,
It's not the 2,4 that bothers (Concerns) me, it's the "D".. (Dioxin, causes Birth Defects, miscarriages, learning disorders, cancer, to only name a few) It's like saying taking a little "poison" won't hurt you. My concern would be people, kids .....

Interesting about the "D". They 'treated' the water in front of my house quite a few years back, and I wasn't notified. I (used to) drink from the lake, I have done this for decades and decades and... In any event, I got quite sick for that summer. I called the company in Natick that poisoned, err... I mean seeded. and they said, tough luck, we have a permit. I called the state (their permit issuer), explained I was raising a pre-teen family that drank and bathed in this stuff and I couldn't afford a well, etc... Anyway, I got a lot of political posturing and umm......

In any event, you don't want to be drinking or bathing or associating with water treated with this stuff, as they warn, this is first hand information, that is the purpose of this post.

[VtSteve]

Thanks Steve. Lots of people went through horrors during the AO aftermath. Just trying to get the government to admit to what had happened was bad enough. The real life impacts were severe, really severe.

I believe an aluminum-based product, promoted, and often donated by Alcoa, is a better way to rid waterways of these nasty weeds.

[IslandRadio]

It must be pretty persistant, or else multiple treatments have taken place in Young's Cove.

Coming out of West Alton Marina last night (9-25), the smell is still making me cough (apparently, I'm sensitive to this, becuase I start to cough whenever I smell the stuff).

Didn't notice if the water is more murky or not - it's usually pretty much so once you get into the cove anyway

[tis]

Assuming they get the permit, they will be using 2,4D in Melvin Bay, 19 Mile Bay, the Basin and parts of Winter Harbor this summer. There is not a lot of information available and some people do not seem to even be aware of it. We know the milfoil is a problem but are very concerned by the use of this product.
They are saying you can't drink the water for 30 days but can swim in it after 24 hours. How are people that don't live on the lake but might put their boats in for the day, for instance, going to know about it? How will it affect kids who might get a mouthful? If your well is 50 feet or more from the lake it is supposedly safe to drink.

Does anyone know any more about this? We would love to be enlightened.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by tis

Assuming they get the permit, they will be using 2,4D in Melvin Bay, 19 Mile Bay, the Basin and parts of Winter Harbor this summer. There is not a lot of information available and some people do not seem to even be aware of it. We know the milfoil is a problem but are very concerned by the use of this product.
They are saying you can't drink the water for 30 days but can swim in it after 24 hours. How are people that don't live on the lake but might put their boats in for the day, for instance, going to know about it? How will it affect kids who might get a mouthful? If your well is 50 feet or more from the lake it is supposedly safe to drink.

Does anyone know any more about this? We would love to be enlightened.

Here are a few answers for the Moultonborough area, a bit north of your areas of concern.
1) it is unlikely the chemicals will be used until after labor day. The standard practice is to minimize the concerns and impact to people during the prime season.
2) For day boaters, there are signs put up in the areas that are treated. You'd have to be half-blind not to see them.
3) In Moultonborough, divers will be very active all summer. Basically, if patches of milfoil are reported and confirmed, they will most likely be pulled. If meadows of milfoil are found, they are candidates for future chemical treatment.
4) The warnings and restrictions for chemical treatment are conservative and based on over 10 years of research by NH Department of Environmental Services.

[Jonas Pilot]

Maybe somebody can enlighten me about how this chemical knows the difference between good plants and bad plants? I also wonder why they would put these chemicals in the water now. This is the beginning of a three month period when fish like white perch, smallmouth and largemouth bass, pickerel and panfish, like blue gills spawn. Weeds are especially important at this time for habitat and shelter for most of these species. These weedy environs act like nurseries for the young of the year. They provide a place to hide for protection from predators and a perfect habitat for the organisms that the young fish need to eat in order to survive.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Here are a few answers for the Moultonborough area, a bit north of your areas of concern.
1) it is unlikely the chemicals will be used until after labor day. The standard practice is to minimize the concerns and impact to people during the prime season.
2) For day boaters, there are signs put up in the areas that are treated. You'd have to be half-blind not to see them.
3) In Moultonborough, divers will be very active all summer. Basically, if patches of milfoil are reported and confirmed, they will most likely be pulled. If meadows of milfoil are found, they are candidates for future chemical treatment.
4) The warnings and restrictions for chemical treatment are conservative and based on over 10 years of research by NH Department of Environmental Services.

They have already told us they will put the chemicals in the water June 25th and we will not be able to drink or irrigate with our water for a month.

I am glad to hear they will put up signs that you would have to be half blind to not see.

We are being told it won't hurt the loons and fish. If we can't drink it, I don't see how they can drink it.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

They have already told us they will put the chemicals in the water June 25th and we will not be able to drink or irrigate with our water for a month.

I am glad to hear they will put up signs that you would have to be half blind to not see.

We are being told it won't hurt the loons and fish. If we can't drink it, I don't see how they can drink it.

At one time they said asbestos was O.K. also...

Dan

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Perhaps those of you questioning the treatment should check your facts more carefully. The treatments have been deemed safe for many years and your statements about 30 days for drinking water are not true. Do you have first hand information or are you going on third hand rumors?

[Jonas Pilot]

"The two active ingredients in the Agent Orange herbicide combination were equal amounts of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T), which contained traces of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD)."

Adding further insult to injury, Johnson explains that "Dicamba and 2,4-D both tend to volatilize, turning the chemicals into vapor that can drift onto neighboring land … " accidentally killing nearby crops and exposing greater expanses to its toxic effects.

And again, as the EPA acknowledges, this is far from a benign chemical. The Cornucopia Institute continues:

"2,4-D is a chlorophenoxy herbicide, and scientists around the world have reported increased cancer risks in association with its use, especially for soft tissue sarcoma and malignant lymphoma. Four separate studies in the United States reported an association with chlorophenoxy herbicide use and non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

… Research by the EPA found that babies born in counties with high rates of 2,4-D application to farm fields were significantly more likely to be born with birth defects of the respiratory and circulatory systems, as well as defects of the musculoskeletal system like clubfoot, fused digits and extra digits. These birth defects were 60% to 90% more likely in counties with higher 2,4-D application rates. The results also showed a higher likelihood of birth defects in babies conceived in the spring, when herbicide application rates peak."



http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...ied-crops.aspx

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Above link interesting but it does not address the applications being discussed. Why don't you contact the NH DES, Aquacide and the two approved companies that actually do the applications.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Perhaps those of you questioning the treatment should check your facts more carefully. The treatments have been deemed safe for many years and your statements about 30 days for drinking water are not true. Do you have first hand information or are you going on third hand rumors?

We have been trying to check our facts but answers are not very forthcoming. Do you have information that could help us? The town, the state and the chemical company have all been very vague.

Why do you say the statements about not drinking the water for 30 days are not true? The chemical company that is doing this project has sent us a letter saying that we cannot. Perhaps you should question your facts more carefully or do you know something they don't?

I want to believe this is a safe project but I am having a hard time with that.

Do you think our government always tells us the truth? Did they tell the poor guys that were affected by agent orange that it was not safe?

[Phantom]

We had this same treatment done to our Great Pond here in Mass. It is a 5 year program of which we are currently in eithor year 3 or 4 with spot treatments along the way.

The EXACT same type of anxiety erupted here as well. To squelch it to two bording Towns held an Open Meeting with the treatment Company (Lycotte) and all questions were answered ..... Doen't mean that everyone went home happy as there is always a few that will NEVER be satisfied and there is always that one Biochemist who likes to challenge EPA findings

P.S. It has done a substantial job in knocking down our Milfoil problem, my grass is still green (lake irragation), we swim, fish & boat!

[tis]

Phantom, do you drink or shower in the water? Or is your well 50 feet or more from the pond?

I asked the head of the milfoil committee to hold a meeting. I don't know if they will.

[WakeboardMom]

Originally Posted by tis

Phantom, do you drink or shower in the water? Or is your well 50 feet or more from the pond?

I asked the head of the milfoil committee to hold a meeting. I don't know if they will.

When you say "we" got a letter from the chemical company, who is "we?" All residents of Moultonborough? Or all residents with shorefront property? Or just those folks who live on the shore of Greene's Basin?

I live in M'borough not far from Long Island.

[Jonas Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Above link interesting but it does not address the applications being discussed. Why don't you contact the NH DES, Aquacide and the two approved companies that actually do the applications.

I'm just curious if you read the whole story?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by tis

Phantom, do you drink or shower in the water? Or is your well 50 feet or more from the pond?

No tis I do NOT drink the water (per se) and I would certainly NOT shower (or bath) in the lake .... too many bubbles from my shampoo

and yes my "Shallow well" is within 75ft of the lake ... i.e. our household drinking & bathing water.

[ITD]

Moultonboro has been doing this for a while, Blackey's cove was done last year and it worked great. Milfoil is a huge problem for the lake and for the native fish and flora. Typically all affected waterfront properties are notified.

I haven't delved too far into this as I haven't had time, but Moultonboro has a pretty substantial amount of information on this, here is the link:

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/...20Comm%20Index

[tis]

Originally Posted by WakeboardMom

When you say "we" got a letter from the chemical company, who is "we?" All residents of Moultonborough? Or all residents with shorefront property? Or just those folks who live on the shore of Greene's Basin?

I live in M'borough not far from Long Island.

No, this is Winter Harbor in Tuftonboro. I talked to one person who did not get a letter but everyone else I or my near neighbors talked to, got one. I don't know everyone in the Harbor, although I have been here since 1984 and grew up on the other end of Winter Harbor. Almost all of us take water from the lake or have a well so close that it is essentially coming from the lake.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Phantom

No tis I do NOT drink the water (per se) and I would certainly NOT shower (or bath) in the lake .... too many bubbles from my shampoo

and yes my "Shallow well" is within 75ft of the lake ... i.e. our household drinking & bathing water.

Sorry, I should have said WITH the water. But you answered my question, essentially you do use lake water.

[Newbiesaukee]

I live near Harilla's on Long Island and the spraying was done last spring and I did get notification from Moultonborough and the company doing the spraying. There were also signs posted in the areas affected regarding the spraying and the restrictions. There was the comment about not drinking the water if well was within 50 feet of the Lake treated. I got answers to most of my questions but I did not see if my wellhead is 25 feet from the water's edge yet the water comes from more than 250 feet down why spraying the Lake would be a factor. As it turns out "they" decided I was outside of the spraying zone.

[tis]

Did they spray there Newbie? They are using pellets here. You make it sound very casual about drinking the water ("There was the comment about not drinking the water."). This is what the letter said: "Based on our past experiences, we expect that the State will impose a 30-day-restriction on the use of treated lake water for drinking and irrigation purposes."

[Newbiesaukee]

I didn't mean to sound casual. I only was commenting that people in the areas to be treated were notified and given phone numbers to call to get more information. I called both the state and the company and got generally satisfactory answers. This was last spring and I did not keep the letter. The letter was a bit too ambiguous about drinking water and distance of well heads from the treated area. As I said, I was told that I was outside the treated area and there were no issues for me.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Having gone through this exercise several years ago, it is important to note that there are different restrictions for the following:

- drinking water directly from the lake
- " " from a dug well near the lake
- " " from a drilled well within 75' from the lake

Both the DES and the people who do the applications (by pellets) can provide specific details. I am not aware of any professionals doing spraying, perhaps Newbie could clarify his comment.

[Newbiesaukee]

I should have used the more general term "treated" rather than "sprayed."

[tis]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Having gone through this exercise several years ago, it is important to note that there are different restrictions for the following:

- drinking water directly from the lake
- " " from a dug well near the lake
- " " from a drilled well within 75' from the lake

Both the DES and the people who do the applications (by pellets) can provide specific details. I am not aware of any professionals doing spraying, perhaps Newbie could clarify his comment.

Yes, I think I said if your well is more than 50 feet from the lake you can drink it. Drinking water from the lake and a dug well or ANY well near the lake is restricted.

I know we will get more answers, I just hope they are the true answers. I think there are a lot of uncomfortable people, even on this site. I have gotten a couple of PMs from people not liking this chemical. I am glad Sue, that you find it so easy to believe everything you are told. I wish I found it that easy to believe. But whatever your thoughts are, we like to hear what you have to say. The more info the better.

I didn't see how they could spray it Newbie, but you never know.