Breakthrough infections

[LoveLakeLife]

So people who choose not to get the vaccine are more likely to be uneducated, i.e. hicks, rubes, rednecks, s***kickers, overalls-wearing dolts? Such an elitist attitude. Remember that a lot of people from Massachusetts think the whole of the NH populace are just such people. Obviously both blanket conclusions are wrong.

Some people are educated beyond their intelligence. Lincoln, Truman, Gates, and Zuckerberg didn’t graduate college. We need the high school graduates to give jobs to the college graduates.


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[Garcia]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

So people who choose not to get the vaccine are more likely to be uneducated, i.e. hicks, rubes, rednecks, s***kickers, overalls-wearing dolts? Such an elitist attitude. Remember that a lot of people from Massachusetts think the whole of the NH populace are just such people. Obviously both blanket conclusions are wrong.

Some people are educated beyond their intelligence. Lincoln, Truman, Gates, and Zuckerberg didn’t graduate college. We need the high school graduates to give jobs to the college graduates.


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Those with college degrees have a higher rate of vaccination than those that do not. I'm not passing judgment nor calling anyone names. I am from MA - but please don't make assumptions about me based on where I reside. Just like New Hampshire (and Maine) there are many different parts of the state. We don't all think alike.

[LoveLakeLife]

Gilly, no one in the history of man has lived virus-free.

Garcia, I agree with you completely. I’m from Mass. too.


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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Gilly, no one in the history of man has lived virus-free.

Garcia, I agree with you completely. I’m from Mass. too.


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And where the hell did I ever say we have? God, the illogical leaps people make.


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[LoveLakeLife]

Lol it was just an oblique reference to your having referenced your freedom to live virus-free. I know what you meant, but there is no such freedom. Life must be lived.


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[WinnisquamZ]

What if every vaccinated individual wears a gold star on their lapel. That way like others can feel safe. You could even wave to each other like Harley rides do


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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

What if every vaccinated individual wears a gold star on their lapel. That way like others can feel safe. You could even wave to each other like Harley rides do


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Oh sorry, I'm not really a jewelry guy, my wedding band is safely locked away and I havent even had a wrist watch since we all got cell phones,,,

How about this as a way to commemorate their accomplishments, and encourage those who are still un-vaccinated, the people who are vaccinated could get a giant V tattooed on their forehead to proudly ID they status. And then with each booster they could circle the big V with little B's. Kinda like all the Hollywood and other cool people that get neck tattoos and such. It would make a bold statement.

Just a thought.

[WinnisquamZ]

Simple change the words from unvaccinated and vaccinated to homosexual and straight and hear how you all sound.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Simple change the words from unvaccinated and vaccinated to homosexual and straight and hear how you all sound.


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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Simple change the words from unvaccinated and vaccinated to homosexual and straight and hear how you all sound.


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Again, a flawed comparison. One involves a choice, the other does not.

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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Again, a flawed comparison. One involves a choice, the other does not.

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Actually i think it has many similarities with regard to the discrimination concern.

[thinkxingu]

Let's hope that this convo can be put to bed sooner than later.

NPR reported that the Covid-19 Scenario Modeling Hub, which includes 9 different sources, predicts that with the 5-11 vaccine approval and continued increases in adult vaccinations that we may be on the way back to "normal."

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[WinnisquamZ]

Today you wouldn’t discriminate against a person with HIV. But, I am positive you would have back in the day. We must all remember the fear and anger that was being thrown around. Magic Johnson was forced to retire from the NBA due to fear. With what we know today, he should have been allowed to continue playing without fear. When this virus passes many of you will regret the choices you have made and the time with family and friends have have lost


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Today you wouldn’t discriminate against a person with HIV. But, I am positive you would have back in the day. We must all remember the fear and anger that was being thrown around. Magic Johnson was forced to retire from the NBA due to fear. With what we know today, he should have been allowed to continue playing without fear. When this virus passes many of you will regret the choices you have made and the time with family and friends have have lost


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Please do not judge without information. When I said never, I meant never.

In the 1990s, coincidentally while Magic was struggling to stay active, I had an excellent VP and friend at work who died of AIDS. We did not discriminate against him, but did everything we could to make sure he felt welcomed and supported. We named an addition to our building for him after he passed.

[thinkxingu]

The current estimate is that 175,000 children have been orphaned as a result of the pandemic. That's heartbreaking.

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[LakeDad]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The current estimate is that 175,000 children have been orphaned as a result of the pandemic. That's heartbreaking.

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So terrible


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[thinkxingu]

I got my flu shot today and am hoping they've upgraded the microchips to 5G.

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I got my flu shot today and am hoping they've upgraded the microchips to 5G.

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A student of mine sent this across today. I hadn't heard about it, but it fits pretty well into this thread. https://www.dazeddigital.com/politic...spiracy-theory

Also, anyone hear from XCR-700? He's not been active since November.

[TKD]

Maybe some are too young to remember but Others lived through many things that were deemed safe and are no longer available because the science was wrong. Blind trust is dangerous and naïve ( bordering on ignorant). saccharine, DDT, asbestos, lead paint, agent orange side effects - shall we go on? Maybe it’s me being of the Vietnam era generation but why everybody believes the government 100% blindly is something I’ll never understand. Have a great night everyone.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TKD

Maybe some are too young to remember but Others lived through many things that were deemed safe and are no longer available because the science was wrong. Blind trust is dangerous and naïve ( bordering on ignorant). saccharine, DDT, asbestos, lead paint, agent orange side effects - shall we go on? Maybe it’s me being of the Vietnam era generation but why everybody believes the government 100% blindly is something I’ll never understand. Have a great night everyone.

These are great examples and I agree we should not always trust the government or big business.

But in the case of these vaccines--unlike your examples--there is a very clear danger to individuals in not taking the vaccines and wearing masks--a 10-20X increased risk of covid.

The products that you list were also motivated by things other than health, and were not tested the way the vaccines have been.

So as I balance all those things, it's an easy decision to get jabbed

[TKD]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

These are great examples and I agree we should not always trust the government or big business.

But in the case of these vaccines--unlike your examples--there is a very clear danger to individuals in not taking the vaccines and wearing masks--a 10-20X increased risk of covid.

The products that you list were also motivated by things other than health, and were not tested the way the vaccines have been.

So as I balance all those things, it's an easy decision to get jabbed

Many numbers/ “facts” are being stated as absolutes regardless of motivation. people are basing their decisions on these numbers. Firm believer in Absolute power corrupts absolutely! Lots of corruption and ulterior motives out there so these “ facts” bother me. I applaud you doing what you all believe is best for you. I just expect the same courtesy/ rights.

Going to spend some time in the water and freeze a little - have a great rest of your weekend folks.

[John Mercier]

Rights would be a protection from government, not the mass market.
And no Right is absolute, it is determined by legal precedence; generally SCOTUS rulings.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Rights would be a protection from government, not the mass market.

And no Right is absolute, it is determined by legal precedence; generally SCOTUS rulings.

Hate to be Captain Obvious here but Rights would be a protection of a person - regardless from whom.

Laws are deemed from legislation/ law makers up through SCOTUS when applicable.

[John Mercier]

No. Rights are protections from government only.
Any employer or trading partner (mass market) can place requirements on you without the force of legislation.

The only way to change that is to impede the free market... which is done through legislation/regulation.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by TKD

Hate to be Captain Obvious here but Rights would be a protection of a person - regardless from whom.

Laws are deemed from legislation/ law makers up through SCOTUS when applicable.

Or more affirmatively stated, Rights are protections of an individual from everyone else, any organization, any group, or government.

They are not just some limited paper promise from some government entity.

Individual people can violate your right, stores can violate your rights, organizations can violate your rights, governments can violate your rights, and they all have and it actually happens a lot.

From an academic perspective:

What are rights?

Rights are conditions and protections that cannot be breached or taken away by others, even by the government or the state. In liberal democratic systems, every individual is assumed to have certain rights. It is the duty of the government and legal system to protect and uphold these rights. The idea of rights is not new, in fact, it dates back to the 1600s. English philosopher John Locke was one of the first to suggest that all people were born with ‘natural rights’. Locke described three fundamental rights: the right to life, the right to liberty (freedom) and the right to property (to have one’s belongings safe from theft or seizure). Ever since the days of Locke, people have struggled and fought to defend or expand their rights. Some notable rights-based struggles included the American and French Revolutions; the anti-slavery and abolition movements of the 19th century; the American civil rights movement in the 1960s; and the Aboriginal land rights campaign in Australia. The struggle for rights still continues in many parts of the world, in places like Myanmar (Burma), Tibet, Iran and many African nations.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Or more affirmatively stated, Rights are protections of an individual from everyone else, any organization, any group, or government.

They are not just some limited paper promise from some government entity.

Individual people can violate your right, stores can violate your rights, organizations can violate your rights, governments can violate your rights, and they all have and it actually happens a lot.

From an academic perspective:

What are rights?

Rights are conditions and protections that cannot be breached or taken away by others, even by the government or the state. In liberal democratic systems, every individual is assumed to have certain rights. It is the duty of the government and legal system to protect and uphold these rights. The idea of rights is not new, in fact, it dates back to the 1600s. English philosopher John Locke was one of the first to suggest that all people were born with ‘natural rights’. Locke described three fundamental rights: the right to life, the right to liberty (freedom) and the right to property (to have one’s belongings safe from theft or seizure). Ever since the days of Locke, people have struggled and fought to defend or expand their rights. Some notable rights-based struggles included the American and French Revolutions; the anti-slavery and abolition movements of the 19th century; the American civil rights movement in the 1960s; and the Aboriginal land rights campaign in Australia. The struggle for rights still continues in many parts of the world, in places like Myanmar (Burma), Tibet, Iran and many African nations.

Agreed and well said- thank you Unfortunately others think they are infallible. - thinking in absolutes. Those are the ones that scare me.

[John Mercier]

And those ''rights'' never existed.
The Right to Life, Liberty, and Property only exists for as long as you can hold it.

An entity contracting with you can set any guidelines for that interaction.
Those ''rights'' are removed by the contractual agreement that you enter.

For instance, an employer cannot hold you down and vaccinate you... but an employer is not required to provide you with employment - employed at will.

A merchant cannot hold you down and vaccinate you... but they may choose not to cater to you - select clientele

I cannot hold you down and vaccinate you... but I do not have to interact with you - shun/ostracism.

Government is a lot less powerful than social interactions in the free market.

So when someone claims a ''right'', it usually they do not want to suffer the negative consequences of their actions/choices.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TKD

Agreed and well said- thank you Unfortunately others think they are infallible. - thinking in absolutes. Those are the ones that scare me.

Ummm---pretty sure you just posted that businesses and organizations do not have rights or cannot have their rights infringed upon? That seems absolute to me.

You may remember that a Supreme Court (that you support?) has ruled in favor of business rights numerous times recently--political donations, labor rules, free speech, etc

[TKD]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Ummm---pretty sure you just posted that businesses and organizations do not have rights or cannot have their rights infringed upon? That seems absolute to me.

You may remember that a Supreme Court (that you support?) has ruled in favor of business rights numerous times recently--political donations, labor rules, free speech, etc

Typical attack attack attack. One should never use the word “you” in a discussion. Makes it personal and naturally puts people on the defensive.

Never posted that nor believe on item#1

Agree with SCOTUS on item #2

Have a great day.

[John Mercier]

Then the you have a dichotomy.

Either the business has the Right to act in its own interest, or it doesn't.

[fatlazyless]

3-cheers (sarcasm alert-) for the four Republican members of the Executive Council who all voted NO to not accept the $27-mil in federal vaccination funding for New Hampshire.

New Hampshire don't need no 27-million dollars from Uncle Sam for vaccination funding ......LIve Free and/or Die!

Gov Chris Sununu said: "The vote showed a reckless disregard for the lives we are losing while they turn away the tools our state needs to fight and win this battle against COVID," Sununu said .......yes, he did say this according to WMUR-tv video.

updated Oct 14 2021 from Oct 13: https://www.wmur.com/article/new-ham...-2021/37948586

Gov Sununu said he did not know of any other state that turned down vaccination funding, and it is likely the $27-mil will wind up going to a large state like New York or California.

From NHPR, Oct 13 2021 ...... http://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-10-...nation-efforts ..... rejects $27-mil federal contracts covid vaccination efforts

Ok, so why did all four Republican executive councilors all say NO ...... ..... to accepting this $27-mil federal grant .... making N.H. the only state to say NO ..... ?

Will do a little research here and try to find some fantastic interesting quote comments from the individual councilors about the WHY they chose to say NO.