South Down Rules

[bobio]

What are you doing with all these crazy rules in South Down. We are now going to be arrested for driving our golf carts if having a cocktail. Has there been any drunk driving accidents with injuries? We are now forbidden to drive our snowmoblies to the trails from our driveway? When will motorcycles be banned from the community? South Down Shores used to be a fun place, now a small group wants to impose restrictions on the larger group. Lets all get involved and take back our community so that we can enjoy it once again.

[Seeker]

Please 'splain it to those of us who don't have a clue where or what South Down is.

[SteveA]

http://www.sdshores.com/direction.html

[brk-lnt]

We got a letter in the mail recently that said something to the extent of traffic enforcement was going to be handled by the Laconia police department, but it sounded like actual fines/etc. would be paid to SDS.

Hadn't heard about the snowmobile thing, where did you hear that?

[Kamper]

Skip will probly explain it better but I dont think you can be "fined" in NH unless the authority derives from a statute (or charter) passed by the legislature. I'm pretty sure motor vehicle laws only apply on a public right of way, or a 'way over which the public has the right to pass.'

Oh well, there's always a loop-hole. I smell law-suits.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Kamper

Skip will probly explain it better but I dont think you can be "fined" in NH unless the authority derives from a statute (or charter) passed by the legislature. I'm pretty sure motor vehicle laws only apply on a public right of way, or a 'way over which the public has the right to pass.'

Oh well, there's always a loop-hole. I smell law-suits.

I would need to see a copy of the rules.

I am not all that familiar with SDS, but if it is a gated community with private roads not maintained by the City of Laconia and not open to the general public,then any enforcement of the motor vehicle code is strictly limited. As always, there are exceptions.

I can state that under no condition could the Laconia Police Department summons or arrest someone in SDS, then have the fine be paid to SDS. Any action initiated by any law enforcement agency can only be adjudicated in a local, county or state court and any fine or penalty imposed is striclty governed by local or state ordinance.

Just a final note...there actually has been a number of serious accidents and fatalities caused by the mis-operation of golf carts in this State. Not to long ago a child was lost in an incident in southern New Hampshire. That said, I have never heard of anyone being arrested for operating a golf cart while "having a cocktail". I have heard of folks being arrested for operating a golf cart while inebriated. And that's a good thing!

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Skip

I have heard of folks being arrested for operating a golf cart while inebriated.

You mean like Bob?

[jetskier]

Hi all,

I am attaching a scan of the policy insert that was sent out to South Down property owners. It appears as though the Laconia police will report the violations and SDRA will enforce them. Personally, I have been completely disgusted with the lack of enforcement of South Down covenants and regulations. The SDRA board often refuses to enforce covenants that are clearly violated. Something must have happened to provoke this.

Jetskier

[dpg]

Suissevale doesn't allow golf carts either. Years ago I used to own a dirt bike (not registered) and used to buzz all around the association, no more. No ATV type vehicle is allowed on their roads.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by dpg

Suissevale doesn't allow golf carts either. Years ago I used to own a dirt bike (not registered) and used to buzz all around the association, no more. No ATV type vehicle is allowed on their roads.

Couple of interesting facts on Suissevale. Castle Shore Road, the road that goes along the shoreline and past their beach is NOT part of the association. Its a private road in existence long before Suissevale. Suissevale Ave, used to be known as Birch Hill Road, before Suissevale, and was/is a deeded right of way to Castle Shore Road and to the public boat launch near their beach.

It would be interesting if they could enforce new rules on a pre-existing ROW or on a private road.

[chipj29]

My daughter lives in a town which is a "planned" community in Georgia. They have golf cart paths throughout the town. They are heavily used by kids (there are age restrictions) and adults alike to get around town. They are patrolled by police, and from what I understand, they follow the same motor vehicle laws as cars. Yes, you can get a CUI (carting under the influence).
Granted this is a public area, so it is a bit different than SDS.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by wifi

Couple of interesting facts on Suissevale. Castle Shore Road, the road that goes along the shoreline and past their beach is NOT part of the association. Its a private road in existence long before Suissevale. Suissevale Ave, used to be known as Birch Hill Road, before Suissevale, and was/is a deeded right of way to Castle Shore Road and to the public boat launch near their beach.

It would be interesting if they could enforce new rules on a pre-existing ROW or on a private road.

Interesting, my family's place is on Castle Shores. It's across from the water, not waterfront. The waterfront homes are not considered part of the association but I wonder if technically any home on Castle Shores could get away from association rules. Would anybody know? Birch Hill is the name of the "hill" in Suissevale. Guess that's where the name came from.

[wifi]

Back in the 40's & 50's the whole area from and including States Landing to Blacks Landing was part of the old Castle property. The then owner subdivided the waterfront part of Castle Shore Road (trail) off, and made, States Landing Road (trail), Blacks Landing Road, and Birch Hill Road as ROWs for the new Castle Shore properties. Later on, in the 60's, the Bank of Wolfeboro together (rumored) to be the RI mafia got together and bought up the backland and created Suissevale. A whole other story unfolds here, but the bottom line is if your CSR property was part of the first subdivision, before Suissevale, then you are not part of the association. If your deed has the association in it, then you are most likely stuck. Thru its lifetime there were multiple bankruptcies of the association and examples of the same lot being sold to multiple people. Today, its strong and I think the legal problems have been worked out.

Its bad enough to have State rules (cspa) and taxes, and town rules and taxes, but to add an associations rules and fees on top, is a little much. Then again, you do get free water? (thats when it works )

[Weirs guy]

Interesting question for you Skip. I believe SDS roads are not town maintained (jetskier and crew can correct me if I'm wrong) so my tax dollars "as a resident of the City of Laconia () but not SDS" do not pay for their maintenance. Now, do my tax dollars pay for the LPD to patrol SDS, or does SDS have to pay extra for patrols?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Interesting question for you Skip. I believe SDS roads are not town maintained (jetskier and crew can correct me if I'm wrong) so my tax dollars "as a resident of the City of Laconia () but not SDS" do not pay for their maintenance. Now, do my tax dollars pay for the LPD to patrol SDS, or does SDS have to pay extra for patrols?

The SDS roads are definitely not maintained by the city of Laconia.

I'm pretty sure the streets are patrolled by the LPD without extra fees incurred, which would be the appropriate choice.

[nj2nh]

It doesn't matter what you are driving or even if you are actually driving it. If you are in a vehicle with the intent to drive the thing and are intoxicated, then you can be charged with DUI no matter the vehicle. Bicycles are included as a vehicle so I should think golf carts would be included.

Down here in Jersey, if a cop sees you come out of a bar, you appear to be intoxicated and get behind the wheel of a vehicle (any vehicle at all), he can can arrest you for DUI even if you never moved the vehicle.

nj2nh
(former county prosecutor)

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Interesting question for you Skip. I believe SDS roads are not town maintained (jetskier and crew can correct me if I'm wrong) so my tax dollars "as a resident of the City of Laconia () but not SDS" do not pay for their maintenance. Now, do my tax dollars pay for the LPD to patrol SDS, or does SDS have to pay extra for patrols?

If the board at SDS invites LPD in, then LPD can patrol the private roads in SDS, at taxpayers expense.

However, the LPD can only enforce Laconia ordinances and appropriate State laws. They have no authority to enforce the civil rules imposed upon the resident's of SDS by the board.

It happens all over the State at many other associations, campgrounds and private facilities...it is known as "showing the flag".

Only the board or its representative's can enforce civil penalties imposed upon SDS residents. If a SDS resident refuses to comply with the association ,then the association must use the civil process and bring that person before a court for enforcement. It is not a criminal matter unless the criminal code is violated.

Two very different sets of laws at play here. IMHO, the letter cited is intended to instill a little bit of "fear factor" into the residents, for whatever reason the board felt necessary.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Skip

If the board at SDS invites LPD in, then LPD can patrol the private roads in SDS, at taxpayers expense.

However, the LPD can only enforce Laconia ordinances and appropriate State laws. They have no authority to enforce the civil rules imposed upon the resident's of SDS by the board.

It happens all over the State at many other associations, campgrounds and private facilities...it is known as "showing the flag".

Only the board or its representative's can enforce civil penalties imposed upon SDS residents. If a SDS resident refuses to comply with the association ,then the association must use the civil process and bring that person before a court for enforcement. It is not a criminal matter unless the criminal code is violated.

Two very different sets of laws at play here. IMHO, the letter cited is intended to instill a little bit of "fear factor" into the residents, for whatever reason the board felt necessary.

Dues to South Down Recreation pay for maintaining the common roads (ex: Outerbridge Drive) and each association levies dues that cover their roads. Laconia does not pay for any of the roads as they are private and public access is not allowed. South Down does invite the Laconia Police in to patrol and they do so fairly regularly.

The interesting part is that there are some killer speed dips that will take out your suspension if you go over them too fast (or don't have ground clearance). It is really pretty self limiting. Of course inebriated driving is a bit of a different matter; I have not seen that at all in the development.

I looked at the flyer and the statement regarding Snowmobiles is that you can not cross private property to get to the trails. That would seem to make sense. In general, there is direct access to the trails from the trailer parking. Of course, most of the trailers (mine included) were completely buried this year.

Jetskier

[Skip]

Originally Posted by jetskier

...I looked at the flyer and the statement regarding Snowmobiles is that you can not cross private property to get to the trails. That would seem to make sense...

In this case the rule is just reiterating State law. It is against the law for any snowmobiler to cross private property unless that snowmobiler has written permission of the property owner, or the property in question is part of a recognized trail system.

So even in a private development, you would still need written permission or be on a recognized trail sanctioned by SDS to operate your sled legally across properties within the development.

[Living the Dream]

You make a great point about motorcycles. They should be banned. Should have been 2 years ago from SD. And we'll still be able to have a cocktail while on the carts. We just have to be "smart".

[ITD]

I learned the hard way that if you buy a property in one of these associations, you need to attend the association meetings. As with most things the vocal minority gets what they want if people don't show up and voice their opinions. You can end up with whole bunch of stupid rules and stupid things happening.

As far as golf carts go though, they can be a nuisance, especially when people let the kids use them as toys. I would think any sane person would want the same rules for golf carts as there is for cars concerning alcohol. 0.08 limit, no open containers seem like pretty reasonable rules to me.

[Weirs guy]

Thanks Skip and jetskier, it looks like SDS owes me some back taxes for the freebie patrols.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Thanks Skip and jetskier, it looks like SDS owes me some back taxes for the freebie patrols.

How do you figure? Every property owner in SDS pays property taxes. In fact, SDS as a group is Laconia's primary tax income stream. I think that police and fire services are part of what your property taxes are supposed to cover.

[Pepper]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

... In fact, SDS as a group is Laconia's primary tax income stream. ...

Certainly not trying to be argumentative, but where did you get the information upon which to base this statement?

[Weirs guy]

brk-lnt, your 100% correct, it was meant as a joke. But I do want to 2nd Peppers question, where did you get your info from? How do you feel about the fact that your property taxes are also supposed to cover road maint?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

brk-lnt, your 100% correct, it was meant as a joke. But I do want to 2nd Peppers question, where did you get your info from? How do you feel about the fact that your property taxes are also supposed to cover road maint?

I got the info from an SDS board meeting about a year ago.

Yeah, I know... consider the source.

I have no issue with the property tax thing for the most part because I knew what I was getting into when I bought there.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I got the info from an SDS board meeting about a year ago.

Yeah, I know... consider the source.

I have no issue with the property tax thing for the most part because I knew what I was getting into when I bought there.

That is commonly bantered about within SDS. All things being equal, SDS is a huge tax contributer. My back of the envelope is that we contribute over $2M in taxes a year to Laconia. The services are pretty pitiful - there are very few children from SDS in the school system, we pay fees for the roads, and garbage is privately paid for. But I am delighted to see that we have police looking out for any speeding golf carts.

Jetskier

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by jetskier

But I am delighted to see that we have police looking out for any speeding golf carts.

Great point!

I'm lucky enough to have 2 kids in school, use the city garbage collection and expect to be plowed out (the police can stay in SDS ). On the 1 hand I'm glad that I use these services while the vast majority of the houses around me use either none of them or very little, but on the other hand I agree with brk-lnt's point that you should be OK with it before you buy. If it makes you all feel better I'll throw away a little extra trash for you all this week.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Great point!

If it makes you all feel better I'll throw away a little extra trash for you all this week.

I would appreciate that.

Jetskier