Huge increase in Meredith assessments

SAMIAM · 08-20-2009, 09:09 AM

Just got a letter from the office of the town assessor explaining that they had just completed a "valuation update" of all properties and while the towns overall vauation has decreased by 5.9%, my new assessed value was up by a whopping 33%.
Even though I've made no changes to my property,I would have been understanding of a small increase to help out a little,but 33%?
There's a number to call for an appointment to question the change.......oh well,.......we'll see what happens.

hazmatmedic · 08-20-2009, 09:42 AM

Possibly a mistake, but it sounds to me, you have been assessed well below the value and that all this time you have been given a break.
You have saved over the years and now it jumps to where it is suppose to be with your fellow neighbors.

NH should have a cap like some other states, 10% per year until brought to the proper level so that it doesn't exceed property owner's budgets.

Good Luck.

feb · 08-20-2009, 10:07 AM

My Meredith Winnisquam property went down by about 10%

Ropetow · 08-20-2009, 11:06 AM

Where's FLL???

Seeker · 08-20-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ropetow

Where's FLL???

Don't know. Is it free ice cream day somewhere?

hilltopper · 08-20-2009, 11:17 AM

Our assessment value was down a little over 2%. This is about the same amount it went up two years ago when all of the sudden my barn, built in 1802, increased in value by $20K.

DickR · 08-20-2009, 12:47 PM

It's very easy to go to the town's web site, link to the tax database, and look up the descriptions and valuations on all your neighbors' and other nearby houses. That will give you a rough idea of how what you have lines up with what other have and what their valuations are. You won't be able to use that comparison for fine tuning purposes, but it will give you an idea if are or were grossly out of line.

At a meeting, the appraisal people will show you all the details of the valuation, beyond what they sent you in the mail. You may be able to argue about some of the smaller things there and get some partial relief, and hopefully for you there may be some glaring mistake that was made. But the basis for all of the things that go into the valuation will be there in detail for review.

meredith weekender · 08-20-2009, 12:48 PM

Just checked our value as well and we have an increase of 13% over last year. Up, up and up is all that expenses keep doing.

feb · 08-20-2009, 01:13 PM

I just looked at some of my neighbors and their neighbors appraisals and many of us went down by 10% yet some people 1 or 2 houses over went UP by 10% or more. That doesn't make sense since nothing has really changed within the square 1/2 mile of houses I am comparing. Unless they were just wrongly appraised last time.

meredith weekender · 08-20-2009, 01:32 PM

The values do not add up. We have 9 houses on our street all with water frontage of approximately 110' and nothing has changed with the lots or buildings. Five of the 9 have increases of 10% or more and the others stayed exactly where they were with no increase or decrease. I would like to know the formula in figuring out these values.

NoRegrets · 08-20-2009, 02:25 PM

Sounds like the scientific roulette wheel approach of balancing the tax coffers...

Good luck trying to find out the science behind the town.

Seeker · 08-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Probably the same way they figure the 'view tax'.

We met with the assessors (Avatar) on 2 of our properties and had them reduced substantially.

PennyPenny · 08-20-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Just got a letter from the office of the town assessor explaining that they had just completed a "valuation update" of all properties and while the towns overall vauation has decreased by 5.9%, my new assessed value was up by a whopping 33%.
Even though I've made no changes to my property,I would have been understanding of a small increase to help out a little,but 33%?
There's a number to call for an appointment to question the change.......oh well,.......we'll see what happens.

Did you put high end anything inside? Hardwood floors, carpeting, lighting, fireplace etc. Compared to other homes in your area, you might be in the upper tax bracket. They get us one way or another.

PennyPenny · 08-20-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker

Probably the same way they figure the 'view tax'.

We met with the assessors (Avatar) on 2 of our properties and had them reduced substantially.

What if you were blind? You can't see the view. Do you get a discount for that?

VtSteve · 08-20-2009, 08:22 PM

Twons are not going to decrease their spending, that's your job

I remember coming back one spring and seeing a new school and new improvements, but not the road we traveled on. Nationwide, it's the bend over and take it waterfront tax. If that's not enough, they move inland.

SAMIAM · 08-21-2009, 08:23 AM

We have not made any changes since they reassessed the whole town....two years ago,I believe.My appointment is not with Vision Appraisal,it is with the town itself so I'm not understanding who is making these decisions.

Sunrise Point · 08-21-2009, 04:28 PM

Feb,

I hope that I am one of the neighbors whose assessment has gone down. Do you have the link to the town website? I am on a borrowed computer and having trouble finding it.

Thanks!

fatlazyless · 08-22-2009, 05:58 AM

A decrease of nine percent on my Meredith-Winnipesaukee 1/4 acre, 55' wf, low-end lot and low-end cottage. How low can it go?

Probably, this summer's weather will not be helping the assessed values. With three cool and wet summers in a row now, does the lakes region have a summer or a rainy season from May 15 to August 15?

tummyman · 08-22-2009, 07:23 AM

Be careful of Vision Appraisal. I live in Moultonborough and we just had the same situation. 20 homes on our road went up over 10% due to just ONE house sale. Vision uses neighborhoods to determine assessed value changes. Only one sale in a neighborhood will mean they use that value to change your assessment....although not statistically valid. In our case, the sale had a lot of interior changes and upgrades by a former owner/builder, who got a minimal building permit for $15,000. Vision didn't raise the building value by even the $15,000 (they had no basis as they never saw what had happened), but instead put all the increase in sales price on land. In doing so, it rolled to every house in the "neighborhood". Meeting with Vision to discuss things...over 14 owners on our road did so, resulted in no change. Vision is absolutely arrogant and takes the position they just know better. The only alternative is to wait until you get your next tax bill, file for an abatement, then hire an independent appraiser to value your property. Unless people start to push back on Vision's arrogance, you will continue to get adverse results. Vision isn't always correct!!! But because they seem to have a large group of customers, they are growing more and more deaf to the people when you bring an issue up. So, file for the abatement........and spend a few $$'s for the appraisals. And get all your neighborhood folks to do the same...the town will listen of enough people show their feelings.........

ITD · 08-22-2009, 07:26 AM

I feel bad for ya Sam, if the towns overall valuation went down 5.9% then the tax rate will go up accordingly to compensate. The amount they collect on a whole is not lowered when the total valuation goes down. That means your increase in taxes will be close to 40% if they don't do something. Good luck.

tummyman · 08-22-2009, 07:29 AM

In Moultonborough's recent reval, Vision had wide swings in values by neighborhood....some up over 20% and some down over 20% in one year. All due to small sale sample data. Waterfront got hit the hardest with such wild swings, where all the values are high to begin with. When our "neighborhood" files for abatements, we hope to have most all impacted properties filing. Enough is enough........ Time to take back the process from "outsiders"....... People need to get motivated and not sit back. Talk to your neighbors....get them to participate with you. Challenge, challenge, challenge.....

tummyman · 08-22-2009, 07:35 AM

Don't anticipate that an appointment with Vision will help. They are only interested in being sure their property card for you is correct...number of bedrooms, baths, interior finishes, etc. etc. If you feel you got "hit" with a high assessment, they are not interested in making a change...they push that off to the abatement process. The abatement process hurts the town...they have to take any changes to assessed property taxes out of an overlay reserve. IF there are no changes to assessments, then the whole overlay reserve stays with the town. The proper process is for the town to iron all these issues out BEFORE they set the tax rate, but they do not get Vision to work these problems out in advance. So you have to claw back with the town....and your tax dollars paid for the Vision analysis in the first place. Now don't you feel great ????????

SAMIAM · 08-22-2009, 08:07 AM

Yuh......maybe I'm just being selfish.Probably time to build a new community center......ours is already a few years old.

Seeker · 08-22-2009, 10:21 AM

Sounds like Vision and Avatar are related. We had one way overpriced house on our road on the market for a long time. Well wouldn't you know someone with more money than brains paid the asking price. Only house to sell here in years. Guess what - it upped everyone else's values by 30%+. After meeting with them we did get some reduced but still high.
Another thing they do is if you have a shower, sink and toilet which I always considered a 3/4 bathroom if it has 3 fixtures, regardless of what they are, it is a full bath. Try selling that to a realtor.
They are working for your town, which means they are working for you although many selectmen consider it THEIR town and we only get in the way.

wifi · 08-22-2009, 01:05 PM

Sounds like its time for a block party to buy a house way below price and pay the difference under the table.

I never used to think this way, but look what government (spending/regulation) is doing to us.

EricP · 08-22-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

We have not made any changes since they reassessed the whole town....two years ago,I believe.My appointment is not with Vision Appraisal,it is with the town itself so I'm not understanding who is making these decisions.

Actually SAMIAM I recently had meetings with the town over my tax bill and can tell you that the process for me was very friendly. I never felt like I was going up against anyone. This was my first experience going through the abatement process and was worried I'd be in a battle. I presentd my case and basically they worked with me. I'd be happy to talk with you if you think I can offer anything. Ultimately the town makes the decision, they relied of Vision to set the prices 2 years ago en mass, but noone is perfect and there are always exceptions. Kinda like buyer beware if you don't like what you see then question it, if you don't they won't either.

pjs1342 · 08-22-2009, 01:18 PM

Vision is from taxachusetts what did u expect!!!!!

no-engine · 08-23-2009, 02:35 PM

FYI: every property is different. I am not on water, very near, and in winter I see Lake, but not now. My assessment went down; a friend's also went down.
Can not compare as not apples to apples.

My letter is not with me, so can not quote a percentage. As one post eluded to, the tax rates are not set, but it remains that Town needs to see a similar revenue or more each year, meaning that our tax bills will NOT lower.

jmen24 · 08-24-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker

Another thing they do is if you have a shower, sink and toilet which I always considered a 3/4 bathroom if it has 3 fixtures, regardless of what they are, it is a full bath. Try selling that to a realtor.

What you describe is a 3/4 bath, but a tub/shower makes a full bath, same amount of fixtures, not saying that is what you have. Realtor appraisals add value to every thing in the home such as windows, wood vs vinyl vs composite, but a bank or town appraisal a window is a window, they do not care if they cost $150 a piece or $1,500. The same goes for bathrooms, its full, 3/4 or 1/2, not full with custom tile shower and whirlpool.

That is just my personal experience and having access to a bank appraisers worksheet, town value, bank value and market value have always been different, the latter is based on demand and they should not be using home sales to jack up values for tax reasons. It is not a difficult thing to calculate actual value based on finishes, but they are looking for the quick and easy way out. Maybe I am wrong about the value side of things, and feel free to tell me so.

jeffk · 08-24-2009, 10:24 AM

I thought that assessments were supposed to approximate real selling prices. With the economy reeling, especially real estate, aren't housing sale prices down quite a bit? They are in most of the country. Is the lakes region immune? If that is indeed the case I have no problem with the assessments. If the house can really sell for around a million and it is appraised fro around a million, fine.

However, it seems fly in the face of reality that we see in the news everyday. Most prices are down 20%+. Are they just making it up as they go along?

jmen24 · 08-24-2009, 10:39 AM

I can tell you that in the Lake Sunapee area the prices have not fallen one bit, the houses that have been on the market for two years or more have not changed price very much, the houses that were in no way, shape or form worth what they were asking have come down but you would have very slim pickings on Lake Sunapee for a house under 1 mil with direct water front. You can go into Vision's website and view tax cards for any town listed, I can tell you that a house we just finished a kitchen addition for the new owners sold over here two years ago, paid the appraised price of 3.4 mil prior to foreclosure and the house next door just sold three months ago for 4.7 mil and is 2000 sf bigger, both with about three acres of land.

I think what is being reported is that the bottom of the market has come down, but the middle to top has not at least in this area and as long as the house is worth it, whatever, but the houses at the bottom are still overpriced in my opinion. I would not want to be a first time home buyer that cannot afford more than 150K, because most of the homes under that radar are in rough shape, if your not afraid of work than the pickings are prime in that market.

Lakegeezer · 08-24-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffk

I thought that assessments were supposed to approximate real selling prices.

We are in discussion with Vision over the assessment of our newly built house. They used the estimated price we put on the building permit, which was fairly accurate but higher than comparable houses in the neighborhood are selling for. The term Vision uses is "replacement cost less depreciation" rather than current real-estate value. The cost of building materials and labor may be a bit less than 2-3 years ago, but are only indirectly connected to real selling prices.

Rattlesnake Guy · 08-24-2009, 07:19 PM

Doesn't really matter if the assessments go down or up as long as they are consistent and fair. If everyone is assessed 10% below market value, they will all still pay the exact same amount of tax.

SAMIAM · 08-24-2009, 07:53 PM

EricP,that is encouraging.I'm not going there to rant and rave,just want to know how they came to that conclusion.My appointment is on tuesday morning,I'll let you know how I make out.

Lakesrider · 08-24-2009, 08:26 PM

Well, I am with tummyman. In my neighborhood in Moultonborough, there were a couple of homes bought as flips. Well one was sold. Bought for $178K and sold for $298K. So Vision used the new price to set all the rates on my street.
We had our meeting. We were told to be there on a Thursday at 1pm. Now ya know most people work at that time. So they set these appointments hoping you can't make it.
I asked around on my street and some stayed flat but a few of us went up anywhere from 5-8%. Now we are talking with the town. Not fair that someone comes in to flip a house and we all pay.

Now, I also, as tummyman suggested, tried to talk with my neighbors. Get folks together to fight this deal. But, I guess they are all "better off ($$$)" Summer folk, 'cause most didn't care and are just going to pay it. Which is another thing I think Vison counts on as well. Maybe I can set up a tollbooth on my street and tell them they will just have to pay the toll to get to their homes.....

tummyman · 08-24-2009, 09:01 PM

In my Moultonborough case, the prior home owner ....a builder, got a minor building permit...although he made way more improvements to the house. Vision just took the building permit value, added it to the prior building less depreciation value. They then took the total difference in selling price and laid it on the LAND. Because LAND is appraised by the towns "neighborhood" locations, all the properties in our neighborhood got hit. If they had made a better split for the building vs. land, most of us would have had no problems. Vision is sloppy. If you want to get real mad, look at what they appraise all those commercial buildings on Rt 25 for. Peanuts....those of us that have waterfront get view charges, but the commercial sites get no big surcharge for their prime locations. Guess I am lucky...my neighbors are really upset / furious and the abatement applications will be flying into town hall when the December tax bills arrive. We will be hiring an outside appraiser to give professional rebuttal to Vision. Will cost us some money, but enough is enough. We all tried very hard to get the Vision people to be realistic, but they turned a complete deaf ear to every one of us...no exceptions.

tummyman · 08-24-2009, 09:05 PM

Lakesrider....are you still talking with the town now or are they just saying to file an abatement if you are not satisfied with what Vision said after your meeting? Any input would be appreciated.

SAMIAM · 08-25-2009, 11:27 AM

OK,here's the skinny.I met with the town assessor,Jim Commerford and here's how he explained my 30% tax increase.The town is divided by streets and neighborhoods of roughly the same value.He said that one or two sales above assessed value do not affect that area,but,if they see a pattern....in my case there were 4 or 5 houses sold that averaged 30% above assessed value,so they bumped us.If properties sold for less,it is possible that people on that street would experience a decrease........although I wouldn't be waiting for that.
For example ,if a house sold for 300k that was assessed at 250k,that is a 20% increase and their goal is to have everyone taxed at 100%
So,if this year,three or four more houses sell in my street for 30% above assessed value,they could bump me another 30% next year as well......and on and on. He said that was highly unlikely but possible.
Not much any of us can do.Only recourse is to pay for an appraisal and go before the selectmen and that won't do any good because they follow the same formula as the assessor.
I understand the process but I'm troubled that they can raise taxes as often as they want and by any amount that is justified by their formula.If the real estate market makes a recovery, the sky's the limit.

fatlazyless · 08-25-2009, 11:58 AM

Next time you cruise past Lake Winnipesauee's Buoy 3, take a look at the nearby beautifull 3-story, large square white colonial house directly behind Horse Island. Super-duper nice house and what a super location, address: 88 Cattle Landing Rd, Meredith, aka 'The Golden Horseshoe' pizza & ice cream in a former life, situated on a peninsular with 180 degree+ water views.

The assessment went down 31%.

1.06 acres land with a large house and a small guest house and a 3 car garage, purchased 4/30/2007 for $2,600,000.

August 9, 2009, www.visionappraisal.com assessed value
$1,799,100.

My math says this is a decrease of 31%. So from April 2007 when it was purchased for 2.6 mil, till August 2009 when it was assessed for 1,8 mil, a period of 28 months, it is valued for 800k less. And that was a purhase price, not an assessed price. I don't know,,,,it seems like a lot of hocus-pocus-dominocus?

Does this mean that the gold coast has lost some of its' gold or is this just an isolated example? I always thought that assessed values are supposed to be based on the TRUE MARKET VALUE if they can be accurately determined.

Gee whiz....I'm just up the road and it must be nice getting a 31% decrease? How's this make any sense?

NoBozo · 08-25-2009, 01:05 PM

FWIW: Our town in Rhode Island uses Vision Appraisal as well, and has had for a few years. NB

PS: I wonder if ones Political Affiliation has any bearing on an individuals taxes.

Rattlesnake Guy · 08-25-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBozo

PS: I wonder if ones Political Affiliation has any bearing on an individuals taxes.

NoBozo,
I think you give them to much credit.

fatlazyless · 09-10-2009, 10:04 AM

Here's another waterfront house that has seen a price drop, 5 Stonedam Island Rd,, Meredith, which is the first house at the eastern entrance to Sally's Gut. White-3 bed-two story, year round home; last July 2008, it had an asking price of $1,300,000., and now the asking price is $925,000.. That's about a 35% drop and it's been at that price for two months now.

So, what's keeping the buyers from biting now?

meredith weekender · 09-10-2009, 01:26 PM

Our assessment had gone up 13% over last years. We called the town and met with the assessor to have them come thru the property. They came thru and dropped the value so now we are at a 8.5% increase over last year. The assessor explained that basically they have seen a decrease in value of the structures town wide but that the lake front land has increased dramatically. So if you own on the water, your going to pay.

08-20-2009, 09:09 AM	#1
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,837 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	Huge increase in Meredith assessments Just got a letter from the office of the town assessor explaining that they had just completed a "valuation update" of all properties and while the towns overall vauation has decreased by 5.9%, my new assessed value was up by a whopping 33%. Even though I've made no changes to my property,I would have been understanding of a small increase to help out a little,but 33%? There's a number to call for an appointment to question the change.......oh well,.......we'll see what happens.

08-20-2009, 09:42 AM	#2
hazmatmedic Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 47 Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Mistake? Possibly a mistake, but it sounds to me, you have been assessed well below the value and that all this time you have been given a break. You have saved over the years and now it jumps to where it is suppose to be with your fellow neighbors. NH should have a cap like some other states, 10% per year until brought to the proper level so that it doesn't exceed property owner's budgets. Good Luck.

08-20-2009, 10:07 AM	#3
feb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith (Winnisquam) & Nashua, NH Posts: 209 Thanks: 25 Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts	Mine went down My Meredith Winnisquam property went down by about 10%

08-20-2009, 11:06 AM	#4
Ropetow Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rochester, NH / Bartlett, NH Posts: 322 Thanks: 228 Thanked 33 Times in 13 Posts	??? Where's FLL???

08-20-2009, 11:17 AM	#6
hilltopper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Meredith Posts: 716 Thanks: 25 Thanked 105 Times in 66 Posts	Down a bit... Our assessment value was down a little over 2%. This is about the same amount it went up two years ago when all of the sudden my barn, built in 1802, increased in value by $20K.

08-20-2009, 12:47 PM	#7
DickR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 735 Thanks: 4 Thanked 254 Times in 166 Posts	It's very easy to go to the town's web site, link to the tax database, and look up the descriptions and valuations on all your neighbors' and other nearby houses. That will give you a rough idea of how what you have lines up with what other have and what their valuations are. You won't be able to use that comparison for fine tuning purposes, but it will give you an idea if are or were grossly out of line. At a meeting, the appraisal people will show you all the details of the valuation, beyond what they sent you in the mail. You may be able to argue about some of the smaller things there and get some partial relief, and hopefully for you there may be some glaring mistake that was made. But the basis for all of the things that go into the valuation will be there in detail for review.

08-20-2009, 12:48 PM	#8
meredith weekender Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Meredith / Manchester Posts: 373 Thanks: 87 Thanked 83 Times in 56 Posts	Just checked our value as well and we have an increase of 13% over last year. Up, up and up is all that expenses keep doing.

08-20-2009, 01:13 PM	#9
feb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith (Winnisquam) & Nashua, NH Posts: 209 Thanks: 25 Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts	Can't find a trend I just looked at some of my neighbors and their neighbors appraisals and many of us went down by 10% yet some people 1 or 2 houses over went UP by 10% or more. That doesn't make sense since nothing has really changed within the square 1/2 mile of houses I am comparing. Unless they were just wrongly appraised last time.

08-20-2009, 01:32 PM	#10
meredith weekender Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Meredith / Manchester Posts: 373 Thanks: 87 Thanked 83 Times in 56 Posts	The values do not add up. We have 9 houses on our street all with water frontage of approximately 110' and nothing has changed with the lots or buildings. Five of the 9 have increases of 10% or more and the others stayed exactly where they were with no increase or decrease. I would like to know the formula in figuring out these values.

08-20-2009, 02:25 PM	#11
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	Sounds like the scientific roulette wheel approach of balancing the tax coffers... Good luck trying to find out the science behind the town.

08-20-2009, 02:39 PM	#12
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Probably the same way they figure the 'view tax'. We met with the assessors (Avatar) on 2 of our properties and had them reduced substantially.

08-20-2009, 08:22 PM	#15
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	Twons are not going to decrease their spending, that's your job I remember coming back one spring and seeing a new school and new improvements, but not the road we traveled on. Nationwide, it's the bend over and take it waterfront tax. If that's not enough, they move inland.

08-21-2009, 08:23 AM	#16
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,837 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	We have not made any changes since they reassessed the whole town....two years ago,I believe.My appointment is not with Vision Appraisal,it is with the town itself so I'm not understanding who is making these decisions.

08-21-2009, 04:28 PM	#17
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	Feb, I hope that I am one of the neighbors whose assessment has gone down. Do you have the link to the town website? I am on a borrowed computer and having trouble finding it. Thanks!

08-22-2009, 05:58 AM	#18
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,529 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	A decrease of nine percent on my Meredith-Winnipesaukee 1/4 acre, 55' wf, low-end lot and low-end cottage. How low can it go? Probably, this summer's weather will not be helping the assessed values. With three cool and wet summers in a row now, does the lakes region have a summer or a rainy season from May 15 to August 15? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

08-22-2009, 07:23 AM	#19
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	Taxes and Vision Appraisal Be careful of Vision Appraisal. I live in Moultonborough and we just had the same situation. 20 homes on our road went up over 10% due to just ONE house sale. Vision uses neighborhoods to determine assessed value changes. Only one sale in a neighborhood will mean they use that value to change your assessment....although not statistically valid. In our case, the sale had a lot of interior changes and upgrades by a former owner/builder, who got a minimal building permit for $15,000. Vision didn't raise the building value by even the $15,000 (they had no basis as they never saw what had happened), but instead put all the increase in sales price on land. In doing so, it rolled to every house in the "neighborhood". Meeting with Vision to discuss things...over 14 owners on our road did so, resulted in no change. Vision is absolutely arrogant and takes the position they just know better. The only alternative is to wait until you get your next tax bill, file for an abatement, then hire an independent appraiser to value your property. Unless people start to push back on Vision's arrogance, you will continue to get adverse results. Vision isn't always correct!!! But because they seem to have a large group of customers, they are growing more and more deaf to the people when you bring an issue up. So, file for the abatement........and spend a few $$'s for the appraisals. And get all your neighborhood folks to do the same...the town will listen of enough people show their feelings.........

08-22-2009, 07:26 AM	#20
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	I feel bad for ya Sam, if the towns overall valuation went down 5.9% then the tax rate will go up accordingly to compensate. The amount they collect on a whole is not lowered when the total valuation goes down. That means your increase in taxes will be close to 40% if they don't do something. Good luck.

08-22-2009, 07:29 AM	#21
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	More on Vision.... In Moultonborough's recent reval, Vision had wide swings in values by neighborhood....some up over 20% and some down over 20% in one year. All due to small sale sample data. Waterfront got hit the hardest with such wild swings, where all the values are high to begin with. When our "neighborhood" files for abatements, we hope to have most all impacted properties filing. Enough is enough........ Time to take back the process from "outsiders"....... People need to get motivated and not sit back. Talk to your neighbors....get them to participate with you. Challenge, challenge, challenge.....

08-22-2009, 07:35 AM	#22
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	Appointments with Vision Don't anticipate that an appointment with Vision will help. They are only interested in being sure their property card for you is correct...number of bedrooms, baths, interior finishes, etc. etc. If you feel you got "hit" with a high assessment, they are not interested in making a change...they push that off to the abatement process. The abatement process hurts the town...they have to take any changes to assessed property taxes out of an overlay reserve. IF there are no changes to assessments, then the whole overlay reserve stays with the town. The proper process is for the town to iron all these issues out BEFORE they set the tax rate, but they do not get Vision to work these problems out in advance. So you have to claw back with the town....and your tax dollars paid for the Vision analysis in the first place. Now don't you feel great ????????

08-22-2009, 08:07 AM	#23
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,837 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	Yuh......maybe I'm just being selfish.Probably time to build a new community center......ours is already a few years old.

08-22-2009, 10:21 AM	#24
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Sounds like Vision and Avatar are related. We had one way overpriced house on our road on the market for a long time. Well wouldn't you know someone with more money than brains paid the asking price. Only house to sell here in years. Guess what - it upped everyone else's values by 30%+. After meeting with them we did get some reduced but still high. Another thing they do is if you have a shower, sink and toilet which I always considered a 3/4 bathroom if it has 3 fixtures, regardless of what they are, it is a full bath. Try selling that to a realtor. They are working for your town, which means they are working for you although many selectmen consider it THEIR town and we only get in the way.

08-22-2009, 01:05 PM	#25
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	Play the system Sounds like its time for a block party to buy a house way below price and pay the difference under the table. I never used to think this way, but look what government (spending/regulation) is doing to us.

08-22-2009, 01:18 PM	#27
pjs1342 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Westie, Cape & Nh Posts: 15 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Vision is from taxachusetts what did u expect!!!!!

08-23-2009, 02:35 PM	#28
no-engine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region Posts: 516 Thanks: 20 Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts	FYI: every property is different. I am not on water, very near, and in winter I see Lake, but not now. My assessment went down; a friend's also went down. Can not compare as not apples to apples. My letter is not with me, so can not quote a percentage. As one post eluded to, the tax rates are not set, but it remains that Town needs to see a similar revenue or more each year, meaning that our tax bills will NOT lower.

08-24-2009, 10:24 AM	#30
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,131 Thanks: 201 Thanked 421 Times in 239 Posts	What is the reality I thought that assessments were supposed to approximate real selling prices. With the economy reeling, especially real estate, aren't housing sale prices down quite a bit? They are in most of the country. Is the lakes region immune? If that is indeed the case I have no problem with the assessments. If the house can really sell for around a million and it is appraised fro around a million, fine. However, it seems fly in the face of reality that we see in the news everyday. Most prices are down 20%+. Are they just making it up as they go along?

08-24-2009, 10:39 AM	#31
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	I can tell you that in the Lake Sunapee area the prices have not fallen one bit, the houses that have been on the market for two years or more have not changed price very much, the houses that were in no way, shape or form worth what they were asking have come down but you would have very slim pickings on Lake Sunapee for a house under 1 mil with direct water front. You can go into Vision's website and view tax cards for any town listed, I can tell you that a house we just finished a kitchen addition for the new owners sold over here two years ago, paid the appraised price of 3.4 mil prior to foreclosure and the house next door just sold three months ago for 4.7 mil and is 2000 sf bigger, both with about three acres of land. I think what is being reported is that the bottom of the market has come down, but the middle to top has not at least in this area and as long as the house is worth it, whatever, but the houses at the bottom are still overpriced in my opinion. I would not want to be a first time home buyer that cannot afford more than 150K, because most of the homes under that radar are in rough shape, if your not afraid of work than the pickings are prime in that market. Last edited by jmen24; 08-24-2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason: added info

08-24-2009, 07:19 PM	#33
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	It's a matter of math. Doesn't really matter if the assessments go down or up as long as they are consistent and fair. If everyone is assessed 10% below market value, they will all still pay the exact same amount of tax.

08-24-2009, 07:53 PM	#34
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,837 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	EricP,that is encouraging.I'm not going there to rant and rave,just want to know how they came to that conclusion.My appointment is on tuesday morning,I'll let you know how I make out.

08-24-2009, 08:26 PM	#35
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Well, I am with tummyman. In my neighborhood in Moultonborough, there were a couple of homes bought as flips. Well one was sold. Bought for $178K and sold for $298K. So Vision used the new price to set all the rates on my street. We had our meeting. We were told to be there on a Thursday at 1pm. Now ya know most people work at that time. So they set these appointments hoping you can't make it. I asked around on my street and some stayed flat but a few of us went up anywhere from 5-8%. Now we are talking with the town. Not fair that someone comes in to flip a house and we all pay. Now, I also, as tummyman suggested, tried to talk with my neighbors. Get folks together to fight this deal. But, I guess they are all "better off ($$$)" Summer folk, 'cause most didn't care and are just going to pay it. Which is another thing I think Vison counts on as well. Maybe I can set up a tollbooth on my street and tell them they will just have to pay the toll to get to their homes.....

08-24-2009, 09:01 PM	#36
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	Moultonborough In my Moultonborough case, the prior home owner ....a builder, got a minor building permit...although he made way more improvements to the house. Vision just took the building permit value, added it to the prior building less depreciation value. They then took the total difference in selling price and laid it on the LAND. Because LAND is appraised by the towns "neighborhood" locations, all the properties in our neighborhood got hit. If they had made a better split for the building vs. land, most of us would have had no problems. Vision is sloppy. If you want to get real mad, look at what they appraise all those commercial buildings on Rt 25 for. Peanuts....those of us that have waterfront get view charges, but the commercial sites get no big surcharge for their prime locations. Guess I am lucky...my neighbors are really upset / furious and the abatement applications will be flying into town hall when the December tax bills arrive. We will be hiring an outside appraiser to give professional rebuttal to Vision. Will cost us some money, but enough is enough. We all tried very hard to get the Vision people to be realistic, but they turned a complete deaf ear to every one of us...no exceptions.

08-24-2009, 09:05 PM	#37
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	Lakesrider Lakesrider....are you still talking with the town now or are they just saying to file an abatement if you are not satisfied with what Vision said after your meeting? Any input would be appreciated.

08-25-2009, 11:27 AM	#38
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,837 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	OK,here's the skinny.I met with the town assessor,Jim Commerford and here's how he explained my 30% tax increase.The town is divided by streets and neighborhoods of roughly the same value.He said that one or two sales above assessed value do not affect that area,but,if they see a pattern....in my case there were 4 or 5 houses sold that averaged 30% above assessed value,so they bumped us.If properties sold for less,it is possible that people on that street would experience a decrease........although I wouldn't be waiting for that. For example ,if a house sold for 300k that was assessed at 250k,that is a 20% increase and their goal is to have everyone taxed at 100% So,if this year,three or four more houses sell in my street for 30% above assessed value,they could bump me another 30% next year as well......and on and on. He said that was highly unlikely but possible. Not much any of us can do.Only recourse is to pay for an appraisal and go before the selectmen and that won't do any good because they follow the same formula as the assessor. I understand the process but I'm troubled that they can raise taxes as often as they want and by any amount that is justified by their formula.If the real estate market makes a recovery, the sky's the limit.

08-25-2009, 11:58 AM	#39
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,529 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Next time you cruise past Lake Winnipesauee's Buoy 3, take a look at the nearby beautifull 3-story, large square white colonial house directly behind Horse Island. Super-duper nice house and what a super location, address: 88 Cattle Landing Rd, Meredith, aka 'The Golden Horseshoe' pizza & ice cream in a former life, situated on a peninsular with 180 degree+ water views. The assessment went down 31%. 1.06 acres land with a large house and a small guest house and a 3 car garage, purchased 4/30/2007 for $2,600,000. August 9, 2009, www.visionappraisal.com assessed value $1,799,100. My math says this is a decrease of 31%. So from April 2007 when it was purchased for 2.6 mil, till August 2009 when it was assessed for 1,8 mil, a period of 28 months, it is valued for 800k less. And that was a purhase price, not an assessed price. I don't know,,,,it seems like a lot of hocus-pocus-dominocus? Does this mean that the gold coast has lost some of its' gold or is this just an isolated example? I always thought that assessed values are supposed to be based on the TRUE MARKET VALUE if they can be accurately determined. Gee whiz....I'm just up the road and it must be nice getting a 31% decrease? How's this make any sense? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 08-26-2009 at 09:35 AM.

08-25-2009, 01:05 PM	#40
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	FWIW: Our town in Rhode Island uses Vision Appraisal as well, and has had for a few years. NB PS: I wonder if ones Political Affiliation has any bearing on an individuals taxes.

09-10-2009, 10:04 AM	#42
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,529 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Here's another waterfront house that has seen a price drop, 5 Stonedam Island Rd,, Meredith, which is the first house at the eastern entrance to Sally's Gut. White-3 bed-two story, year round home; last July 2008, it had an asking price of $1,300,000., and now the asking price is $925,000.. That's about a 35% drop and it's been at that price for two months now. So, what's keeping the buyers from biting now? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!