Marine patrol - boat damage?

ThePlut · 08-15-2011, 09:43 AM

So, I got my first ever citation last week on the lake. I do not plan to fight it. The MP officer was a decent guy, respectful, and reasonable. However, he tied up his rubber boat tight to mine for the duration of the stop, and while the water traffic wasn't heavy, there were plenty of waves.

The following morning I found several small scratches on the hull. I know these were not there before, they are well below the rub rail, right where his boat was tight to mine.

It really bugs me, I realize I have no proof, and the infraction was just, but I don't believe that makes it ok for my property to be damaged. I believe the scratches can be easily repaired during winter storage.

What would you do? Suck it up? I sure will remember to request fenders be deployed no matter the type of boat next time this happens. As dumb as it sounds, I really don't want to make trouble for the officer, since he was really cool about the whole thing...

Thx.

Jonas Pilot · 08-15-2011, 10:53 AM

If I were you I would go to Marine Patrol in person and ask the person in charge what they think.

AC2717 · 08-15-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

If I were you I would go to Marine Patrol in person and ask the person in charge what they think.

I agree, but might be tough to prove, but you never know until you ask and there is no harm there, just remmeber calm and cool

NoRegrets · 08-15-2011, 01:53 PM

I think the Marine patrol is normally pretty good about being sensitive to the boating public and some join in on the forum. I would not be surprised to see a posting here or a PM to you.

Sorry you had some damage. We should ask the Marine Patrol to stand off until a few fenders can be deployed to protect our propety. It may not be the first thing that comes to mind when the blue lights go on but saves any chance of a problem.

4Fun · 08-15-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePlut

So, I got my first ever citation last week on the lake. I do not plan to fight it. The MP officer was a decent guy, respectful, and reasonable. However, he tied up his rubber boat tight to mine for the duration of the stop, and while the water traffic wasn't heavy, there were plenty of waves.

The following morning I found several small scratches on the hull. I know these were not there before, they are well below the rub rail, right where his boat was tight to mine.

It really bugs me, I realize I have no proof, and the infraction was just, but I don't believe that makes it ok for my property to be damaged. I believe the scratches can be easily repaired during winter storage.

What would you do? Suck it up? I sure will remember to request fenders be deployed no matter the type of boat next time this happens. As dumb as it sounds, I really don't want to make trouble for the officer, since he was really cool about the whole thing...

Thx.

Buff them out yourself. Waaaaaay less trouble and probably what you will end up doing anyway.

It's just too much trouble to fight city hall.

Belmont Resident · 08-15-2011, 03:39 PM

You will get marks when tying up in an area with waves from fenders/bumper anyways.
More noticeable on dark hulled boats. My wife’s boat has several areas where fenders have rubbed and left marks on the black area.

Kamper · 08-16-2011, 07:00 AM

Most of the stops I've seen, the MP has thrown their own fenders out. It looks like it was a lapse in your case. Since it's minor, and you don't want to make trouble, you might want to consider sending a personal note to the officer reminding him deploy his fenders so he does not cause real damage sometime.

If it was my boat I'd probably let it go though. The only boat that never gets dings or scratches is the one that stays in the back yard.

VitaBene · 08-16-2011, 07:31 AM

Did MP tie up for the entire stop? They seem float around their "customer" during a stop!

sa meredith · 08-16-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Did MP tie up for the entire stop? They seem float around their "customer" during a stop!

The one time I was stopped, they approached and tied off to me, explained the stop ( less than 150'), performed safety inspection (pfd, fire ext, horn, etc), took my license, untied, floated near by while documenting the stop and I imagine, calling in my license, writing a warning (no fine), and then retied to hand me paperwork.

jrc · 08-16-2011, 09:59 AM

I've seen them do it the way SA describes, I think they don't want you to hear the conversation on the radio.

fatlazyless · 08-16-2011, 12:44 PM

Most likely, if you sued the MP in a NH small claims court or a superior court, you would lose because the judge would call it "the normal wear & tear of boating" and that includes getting stopped by the MP for a citation.

So's the question on everybody's mind has got to be: "Why did you get stopped, how much is your penalty fine, what's the location, and were you honestly surprised you got stopped?" Come on Plut....just wondering.....curious minds out there, all around the planet, all want to know?

ThePlut · 08-18-2011, 08:30 AM

Last year I got stopped and the did as you guys mention, took my info and floated around me. This guy remained tied (tightly) for the entire stop.

I agree, the boat probably would get scratched eventually, but I'm far more accepting of my own carelessness than someone else's. If anything, it's a good reminder to put out my own fenders from now on.

I did learn that, because my new boat is over 26', I need a bell onboard. Something I genuinely did not recall.

As far as the ticket, I was in the wrong, but I was surprised that someone took time out of their day to call the MP about it. And yes, I'm sure someone called, given the whole situation... So, lesson learned.

VitaBene · 08-18-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePlut

Last year I got stopped and the did as you guys mention, took my info and floated around me. This guy remained tied (tightly) for the entire stop.

I agree, the boat probably would get scratched eventually, but I'm far more accepting of my own carelessness than someone else's. If anything, it's a good reminder to put out my own fenders from now on.

I did learn that, because my new boat is over 26', I need a bell onboard. Something I genuinely did not recall.

As far as the ticket, I was in the wrong, but I was surprised that someone took time out of their day to call the MP about it. And yes, I'm sure someone called, given the whole situation... So, lesson learned.

Yes, the funny part about the bell is that it need not be mounted. At the Lakes Region Sail and Power Squadron, we refer to it as a "bell in a box" because that is where most are found on board vessels that receive a courtesy inspection. It does need to be close to the helm.

If your boat is not truly over 26' (measured from stern to bow, not inclusive of swim platform), you do not need it.

jrc · 08-18-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

...It does need to be close to the helm....

You learn something new every day, I have my bell in the box stashed down in the cabin. I'll move it to under helm.

I found out I needed one at a courtesy inspection, thanks power squadron!

ThePlut · 08-18-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

If your boat is not truly over 26' (measured from stern to bow, not inclusive of swim platform), you do not need it.

So that's interesting, because I was going to argue it since my boat specs, with no platform, is 25'7". But my registration includes the platform, so that's what he went by.

And my bell is a half a step away, but I'll move it closer. Maybe put a copy of the spec page in the glove box for future reference.

I did get the "must return in 48 hours" card, which I mailed monday am after getting it on Friday night, so if I get any additional hassle, I may use the fact that the boat doesn't really need it anyway.

Coolbreeze · 08-18-2011, 09:12 PM

It would be funny to pull the American Grafitti approach and instead of putting a chain around the axle, put a chain around the lower unit, fly by at a high rate of speed and watch in delight as they pursue you only to have the engine yanked off. Man I still laugh at that scene in the movie.

This written in humor only... of course.

Kamper · 08-19-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolbreeze

... put a chain around the lower unit, ...

This written in humor only... of course.

I've occassionally entertained the notion of locating some miscreant's dock and pulling their prop nut. Slow reverse, no problem. Full speed ahead, no problem. But when they power back quickly the prop would slide off!

When the wanted to get back under-way they would think thay had a spun-hub until they got out to check.

Also written in jest... (of course!)

pm203 · 08-23-2011, 07:04 AM

I have a few friends that have boats with expensive paint jobs and no rub rails. They politely point this out to the MP and ask to not be tied up to to their boat. The MP's have been very courteous in this manner and have complied. If the MP wants to to board, they ask to go to the nearest dock.

Seaplane Pilot · 08-23-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Yes, the funny part about the bell is that it need not be mounted. At the Lakes Region Sail and Power Squadron, we refer to it as a "bell in a box" because that is where most are found on board vessels that receive a courtesy inspection. It does need to be close to the helm.

If your boat is not truly over 26' (measured from stern to bow, not inclusive of swim platform), you do not need it.

Vita, I can find nothing in the laws that require this bell to be close to the helm. Can you elaborate on this a bit?

VitaBene · 08-23-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Vita, I can find nothing in the laws that require this bell to be close to the helm. Can you elaborate on this a bit?

SP, I took a little liberty. Theoretically, you could stow it anywhere on your vessel. The VSC manual that we follow offers the following guidance: If the vessel requires a bell, it is not required to be mounted to qualify for the decal. It should be stored so that it is readily accessible.

If you have a VSC performed on your larger than 26' boat, the Power Squadron Examiner would suggest that it be near the helm as it would do the operator little good in the event of an emergency.

Regarding measurement: The distance is measured from end to end, over the deck, excluding sheer (VB addition: the sheer is the break in the hull of any boat that runs from bow to stern and separates the side of the hull from the deck). This means a straight line from the foremost point of the vessel to the aftermost point of the vessel, measured parallel to the centerline.

Bowsprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motors, and brackets, attached diving platforms, and similar fittings or attachments are not included in the measurement.

NoBozo · 08-23-2011, 03:19 PM

"Boats of Class 2 and Class 3, must also carry an Efficient Bell, used when a boat is at anchor in a fog. When struck, it must produce a clear bell-like tone of full round characteristics."

Taken from PILOTING, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling by Charles F. Chapman, which has been considered the "Bible" for any reputable USCG Auxiliary or Power Squadron Boating Course for the past 88 years. NB

jrc · 08-23-2011, 07:24 PM

The NH rule below.

I guess a stupid question, is my horn considered a whistle?

Saf-C 403.12 Sound-Producing Devices.
(a) All class A motorboats less than 16 feet in length shall be equipped with a hand, mouth, or power operated whistle.
(b) All class I motorboats from 16 feet to less than 26 feet in length shall be equipped with one hand, mouth or power operated whistle, audible for a distance of at least one-half mile.
(c) All class II motorboats from 26 feet to less than 40 feet in length shall be equipped with one bell and one hand or power operated whistle audible for a distance of at least one mile.
(d) All class III motorboats 40 feet in length to less than 65 feet shall be equipped with one bell and one power operated whistle, audible for a distance of at least one mile.

Kamper · 08-24-2011, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

... bumpkins, ... are not included in the measurement.[/I]

I learned something new today, and it's not even breakfast time!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bumpkin

bump·kin
2 [buhmp-kin] Show IPA

noun Nautical .
a beam or spar projecting outward from the hull of a vessel, for extending a sail, securing blocks, etc.

Also, boomkin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1625–35; < Middle Dutch boom boom2 , beam + -kin

Seaplane Pilot · 08-24-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

SP, I took a little liberty. Theoretically, you could stow it anywhere on your vessel. The VSC manual that we follow offers the following guidance: If the vessel requires a bell, it is not required to be mounted to qualify for the decal. It should be stored so that it is readily accessible.

If you have a VSC performed on your larger than 26' boat, the Power Squadron Examiner would suggest that it be near the helm as it would do the operator little good in the event of an emergency.

Regarding measurement: The distance is measured from end to end, over the deck, excluding sheer (VB addition: the sheer is the break in the hull of any boat that runs from bow to stern and separates the side of the hull from the deck). This means a straight line from the foremost point of the vessel to the aftermost point of the vessel, measured parallel to the centerline.

Bowsprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motors, and brackets, attached diving platforms, and similar fittings or attachments are not included in the measurement.

Thanks for the reply. My opinion is that the bell is required for use in fog or other low-visibility conditions. These conditions would rarely be instantaneous, therefore one should have ample time to retrieve the bell should conditions deteriorate. I appreciate your reply and info. SP

Wolfeboro_Baja · 08-24-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Regarding measurement: The distance is measured from end to end, over the deck, excluding sheer (VB addition: the sheer is the break in the hull of any boat that runs from bow to stern and separates the side of the hull from the deck). This means a straight line from the foremost point of the vessel to the aftermost point of the vessel, measured parallel to the centerline.

Bowsprits, bumpkins, rudders, outboard motors, and brackets, attached diving platforms, and similar fittings or attachments are not included in the measurement.

The way it was explained to me, a swim platform is NOT included in the stated length of a boat (for registration purposes) IF it is a BOLT-ON platform. If the platform is molded in as part of the hull and/or upper deck, then it IS included in the measurement.

My first boat was a Baja 212 Islander (a bowrider); 21' 2" in length according to the manufacturer and that was the length listed on the NH registration. It had a molded-in swim platform. The actual length of the hull IN THE WATER was only about 20' (my estimate). My current 25 Outlaw is 25'; it has a bolt-on swim platform. With the swim platform, it measures 26' 5" according to Baja. On the NH registration, this boat is listed as 25' in length.

Again, this was the explanation given to me for REGISTRATION purposes. I have no idea if the same standard of measurement applies to other areas of boating law in NH.

08-15-2011, 09:43 AM	#1
ThePlut Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Marine patrol - boat damage? So, I got my first ever citation last week on the lake. I do not plan to fight it. The MP officer was a decent guy, respectful, and reasonable. However, he tied up his rubber boat tight to mine for the duration of the stop, and while the water traffic wasn't heavy, there were plenty of waves. The following morning I found several small scratches on the hull. I know these were not there before, they are well below the rub rail, right where his boat was tight to mine. It really bugs me, I realize I have no proof, and the infraction was just, but I don't believe that makes it ok for my property to be damaged. I believe the scratches can be easily repaired during winter storage. What would you do? Suck it up? I sure will remember to request fenders be deployed no matter the type of boat next time this happens. As dumb as it sounds, I really don't want to make trouble for the officer, since he was really cool about the whole thing... Thx.

08-15-2011, 03:39 PM	#6
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Fyi You will get marks when tying up in an area with waves from fenders/bumper anyways. More noticeable on dark hulled boats. My wife’s boat has several areas where fenders have rubbed and left marks on the black area.

08-16-2011, 12:44 PM	#11
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,528 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Most likely, if you sued the MP in a NH small claims court or a superior court, you would lose because the judge would call it "the normal wear & tear of boating" and that includes getting stopped by the MP for a citation. So's the question on everybody's mind has got to be: "Why did you get stopped, how much is your penalty fine, what's the location, and were you honestly surprised you got stopped?" Come on Plut....just wondering.....curious minds out there, all around the planet, all want to know? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 08-16-2011 at 06:08 PM.

08-18-2011, 08:30 AM	#12
ThePlut Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Heh Last year I got stopped and the did as you guys mention, took my info and floated around me. This guy remained tied (tightly) for the entire stop. I agree, the boat probably would get scratched eventually, but I'm far more accepting of my own carelessness than someone else's. If anything, it's a good reminder to put out my own fenders from now on. I did learn that, because my new boat is over 26', I need a bell onboard. Something I genuinely did not recall. As far as the ticket, I was in the wrong, but I was surprised that someone took time out of their day to call the MP about it. And yes, I'm sure someone called, given the whole situation... So, lesson learned.

08-23-2011, 03:19 PM	#21
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	The Bell "Boats of Class 2 and Class 3, must also carry an Efficient Bell, used when a boat is at anchor in a fog. When struck, it must produce a clear bell-like tone of full round characteristics." Taken from PILOTING, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling by Charles F. Chapman, which has been considered the "Bible" for any reputable USCG Auxiliary or Power Squadron Boating Course for the past 88 years. NB

08-15-2011, 10:53 AM	#2
Jonas Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365 Posts: 1,686 Thanks: 1,047 Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts	If I were you I would go to Marine Patrol in person and ask the person in charge what they think.

The Following User Says Thank You to AC2717 For This Useful Post:
Jonas Pilot (08-15-2011)

08-15-2011, 01:53 PM	#4
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	I think the Marine patrol is normally pretty good about being sensitive to the boating public and some join in on the forum. I would not be surprised to see a posting here or a PM to you. Sorry you had some damage. We should ask the Marine Patrol to stand off until a few fenders can be deployed to protect our propety. It may not be the first thing that comes to mind when the blue lights go on but saves any chance of a problem.

08-16-2011, 07:00 AM	#7
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	Most of the stops I've seen, the MP has thrown their own fenders out. It looks like it was a lapse in your case. Since it's minor, and you don't want to make trouble, you might want to consider sending a personal note to the officer reminding him deploy his fenders so he does not cause real damage sometime. If it was my boat I'd probably let it go though. The only boat that never gets dings or scratches is the one that stays in the back yard.

08-16-2011, 07:31 AM	#8
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,532 Thanks: 1,574 Thanked 1,608 Times in 823 Posts	Did MP tie up for the entire stop? They seem float around their "customer" during a stop!

08-16-2011, 09:59 AM	#10
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I've seen them do it the way SA describes, I think they don't want you to hear the conversation on the radio.

08-18-2011, 09:12 PM	#16
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	It would be funny to pull the American Grafitti approach and instead of putting a chain around the axle, put a chain around the lower unit, fly by at a high rate of speed and watch in delight as they pursue you only to have the engine yanked off. Man I still laugh at that scene in the movie. This written in humor only... of course.

08-23-2011, 07:04 AM	#18
pm203 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 225 Thanks: 41 Thanked 86 Times in 46 Posts	I have a few friends that have boats with expensive paint jobs and no rub rails. They politely point this out to the MP and ask to not be tied up to to their boat. The MP's have been very courteous in this manner and have complied. If the MP wants to to board, they ask to go to the nearest dock.

08-23-2011, 07:24 PM	#22
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	The NH rule below. I guess a stupid question, is my horn considered a whistle? Saf-C 403.12 Sound-Producing Devices. (a) All class A motorboats less than 16 feet in length shall be equipped with a hand, mouth, or power operated whistle. (b) All class I motorboats from 16 feet to less than 26 feet in length shall be equipped with one hand, mouth or power operated whistle, audible for a distance of at least one-half mile. (c) All class II motorboats from 26 feet to less than 40 feet in length shall be equipped with one bell and one hand or power operated whistle audible for a distance of at least one mile. (d) All class III motorboats 40 feet in length to less than 65 feet shall be equipped with one bell and one power operated whistle, audible for a distance of at least one mile.