VHF Poll

[NH_boater]

I was wondering how many boaters have VHF on Winni, and if that number will increase due to budget cuts at Marine Patrol. I am guessing that a small percentage of Winni boaters overall have VHF, but a larger percentage that are members here.

Do you have VHF and why?

[Kamper]

I have a VHF because I can't yell loud enough.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

VHF sounds great, but why invest in a radio when we have good cell phone coverage?

[John A. Birdsall]

I am glad to hear you have good cell phone coverage. I have AT&T and unless It is the dead of winter in Alton Bay I get no coverage at all. Sometimes I get coverage down in the Bay near the bandstand but not near echo point.

[Chubbs]

Time to switch to Verizon wireless. I have little trouble if any.

[ishoot308]

I also have AT&T and have coverage over most if not the entire lake.

Dan

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I am glad to hear you have good cell phone coverage. I have AT&T and unless It is the dead of winter in Alton Bay I get no coverage at all. Sometimes I get coverage down in the Bay near the bandstand but not near echo point.

How old is your phone? My ancient Verizon phone that I loved because it was so small, couldn't get any bars when I was in Wolfeboro. They finally talked me into an upgrade and the new (now old) phone has excellent coverage. If you do upgrade, be sure you can take it back for an exchange if the coverage isn't what they say it will be. My sister did that with her carrier in Texas with no problems.

[Misty Blue]

Cell Phone coverage around the Lake is now very,very good. So why the VHF?

One word, SAFETY!

Let's try an example...

You are tooling through the Broads and one of the kids says "Dad, why is there water coming out of the bottom of the boat"? Yikes! It just killed the engine! Zoiks!

You can call your marina or towing company on your cell but then they are the only ones around (and they are not around) that know that you are in trouble.

Now...Pick up the VHF and hail on CH-16 Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! and every boater with a VHF on hears you. Law requires that you maintain a CH-16 watch. You now have help on the way that is nearby and prompt.

I had a situation where I was looking for a missing kayaker. I was having trouble finding this person and local calls didn't help. So I reported it to NHMP
on CH-16. Another boater caught the call and led me to the boat.

Cell phones are great, I use them all the time in my business. But VHF is like the fire extinguisher or the PFD. It's there for a rainy day.

Misty Blue

[Knomad]

A word of caution.
A Mayday situation is one in which a vessel or person is in grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.
The use of Mayday without proper cause could render the user liable to civil and/or criminal charges.

[Lakepilot]

I don't have VHF on the boats on the lake, but I do have it and use it on our boat in the gulf. I literally would be afraid to go into the Everglades or out in the Gulf, without a VHF and Sea Tow. If I were to put a VHF on the lake, which boats would get it and why one and not the other. We have kayaks, Sea Doo's, small Whaler and a Cobalt? They all roam pretty far on Winni?

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

Cell Phone coverage around the Lake is now very,very good. So why the VHF?

One word, SAFETY!

Let's try an example...

You are tooling through the Broads and one of the kids says "Dad, why is there water coming out of the bottom of the boat"? Yikes! It just killed the engine! Zoiks!

You can call your marina or towing company on your cell but then they are the only ones around (and they are not around) that know that you are in trouble.

Now...Pick up the VHF and hail on CH-16 Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! and every boater with a VHF on hears you. Law requires that you maintain a CH-16 watch. You now have help on the way that is nearby and prompt.

I had a situation where I was looking for a missing kayaker. I was having trouble finding this person and local calls didn't help. So I reported it to NHMP
on CH-16. Another boater caught the call and led me to the boat.

Cell phones are great, I use them all the time in my business. But VHF is like the fire extinguisher or the PFD. It's there for a rainy day.

Misty Blue

Ditto that. I had a boat fire one year and called in a Mayday. Within 1 minute I had at least 4 boats coming to offer assistance. This would not have been possible with just a cell phone call.

[NoRegrets]

If you have a radio on board you are supposed to monitor and render assistance if a call is made.

For over the "air" distress signals "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, this is .........)" is the most severe distress call.

Where immediate assistance is not needed but you want specific agency to know of a situation you should use "Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan this is .......). If your radio can pick up the coast card responses you will hear Pan-Pan called out fairly frequently.

Mayday was derived from the French term “venez m'aider” - "come help me".
Pan stands for Possible Assistance Needed.

MistyBlue - Thanks for so eloquently describing the power of broadcasting to a relavant audience. Everyone should always keep their device on when possible in the event they can prevent a bad situation from going tragic.

[Breakwater]

I have a VHF for 2 reasons;

1. Others boaters will hear my calls for help and start responding when 911 is between me and an operator in Concord that then calls the fire dept.

2. My VHF is connected to my GPS and upon pressing an emergency button...my exact location is transmitted to other VHF radios. This is a common feature on most basic level radios. And its another relatively inexpensive layer of insurance when a boat is on fire or sinking.

My $.02!

[BroadHopper]

My Formula came with VHF from the factory. I have little use for it on the lake other than to monitor channel 16 or hail another boat in case I see danger. Something you can't do with a cell phone. How would you know the other boat's 10 digit number????

On the intercoastal, the 'chatter' can be very beneficial. Weather or accident ahead etc.

My monitor is 23 years old! I'm wondering how long monitors last?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Even if you have VHF, please consider putting these numbers in you cell phone.

Copied and pasted from Marine Patrol's web site to avoid any errors on my part.

In an emergency situation, call 603-293-2037 or 877-642-9700.

You won't have time to find the number in an emergency so please put it in you phone now.

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by Breakwater

I have a VHF for 2 reasons;

1. Others boaters will hear my calls for help and start responding when 911 is between me and an operator in Concord that then calls the fire dept.

2. My VHF is connected to my GPS and upon pressing an emergency button...my exact location is transmitted to other VHF radios. This is a common feature on most basic level radios. And its another relatively inexpensive layer of insurance when a boat is on fire or sinking.

My $.02!

I remember posts from a year or two ago where very few people used that digital selective calling system on the lake. The Marine Patrol, Sea Tow and Tow Boat US did NOT monitor channel 70 for that DCS emergency distress and location system in past years as I recall. It's been several years that new fixed mount VHF radios have been required to have at least basic DCS ability but you must apply for and program in your unique vessel ID. It's easy to do but most people on the lake don't. Ocean going groups find it very helpful for regular activities as well as emergencies.

At the lake most VHF users monitor Ch 16 for voice communications but not the DCS system on Channel 70. In fact they often use channel 70 for idle chit-chat which blocks that channel for the digital DCS emergency use.

[Kamper]

FYI - If you have trouble on the lake -DO NOT- call 911 from your cell. You will get the Sherriff's office who will insist on taking down all your info so they can relay it if they drop the call...

If you don't have their number pre-loaded just call 411. Advise the operator you want to be transferred to NHMP in (Glendale?) NH. It will cost you $1 or so, but takes a minute instead of 10.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Kamper

FYI - If you have trouble on the lake -DO NOT- call 911 from your cell. You will get the Sherriff's office who will insist on taking down all your info so they can relay it if they drop the call...

If you don't have their number pre-loaded just call 411. Advise the operator you want to be transferred to NHMP in (Glendale?) NH. It will cost you $1 or so, but takes a minute instead of 10.

Not only is that bad advice, it could prove to be deadly advice.

When you dial 911 you do not get the "Sheriff's Office", you get the E911 Communications Center in Concord. And along with your phone's information your GPS location is also imbedded and available for the E911 operator to relay to emergency responders. In addition the operator, based on your location, can immediately tranfer emergency operation to all responders that are necessary including Marine Patrol and local Fire/EMS/Rescue and other law enforcement personnel that may be needed.

Yes the operator will ask you for identifying information and it in now way requires 10 minutes of your time as you imply.

Additionally the staff at E911 have personnel available that can offer a variety of resources of information regarding first aid should you need it.

In an emergency where every second counts at out on a body of water where many times a caller does not know there exact location, bypassing the E911 center could prove deadly for those that need assistance.

[BroadHopper]

Whatever happen to the E911 Emergency Communications Center in Laconia? I thought that is where Lakes Regions calls are handled? There is another one up in Plymouth.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Skip

... you get the E911 Communications Center in Concord. ...

Your information may be more current than mine but when I made my call, earlier in the century, that is what happenned.

Thanks for the update!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Whatever happen to the E911 Emergency Communications Center in Laconia? I thought that is where Lakes Regions calls are handled? There is another one up in Plymouth.

...It is the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid Communications Center. They provide dispatch service for Fire and Medical to over 35 Communities.

Back a few months ago, my wife had a medical issue in the early morning hours. I was still in bed, and finally heard her calling me. I called 911, who verified info and transferred me over to LRMFA who dispatched the ambulance and stayed on the line with me until the ambulance crew not only arrived, but were in the house. Seemless transfer, and very professional and yet compassionate. And thankfully, after half a day in the hospital, all was well.

Here is a link to their website:

http://www.lrmfa.org/quick.asp

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Skip,
Is the 911 location capability only good from a land line or will they know where we are on the water with a cell phone? (With a non gps cell phone)
Thanks

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Skip,
Is the 911 location capability only good from a land line or will they know where we are on the water with a cell phone? (With a non gps cell phone)
Thanks

It is good for a cell phone. A GPS equipped phone with an accurate LOS to the birds obviously will give a fix accurate to within meters, but even with a non-GPS phone the companies use several algorithms that can get a very accurate fix on yor phone using several types of trianglization schemes. Long story short it is an FCC mandate and it actually works quite well, and is becoming almost commonplace in its usage now. Additionally the FCC is requiring extreme accuracy requirements over the upcoming years.

Just to recap, all E911 calls go to Concord. In Concord they will determine and classify your emergency and then electronically hand down the call to the applicable local dispatch center. This not only includes the actual phone call, but all information the Concord E911 dispatcher enters into their call screen is also electronically transferred to the applicable local dispatch center so the secondary dispatcher doesn't have to duplicate the effort of re-entering all the call data.

One other important note. In Concord there are multiple dispatcher operators on duty that can handle any multitude of simultaneous calls, especially important in a large scale emergency. The local dispatch center may have limited staff, sometimes only one person on duty depending on the area. Say a number of boaters simultaneously see an incident on the Lake and all decide to call NHMP direct. It could easily and quickly overload the limited staff there, especially if they are already handling multiple incidents. By calling E911 direct calls can be prioritized and multiple calls reporting the same incident can be screened. Finally, the E911 center has the capabiltiy to divert or spread calls out over various agencies if need be.

In short if it is an emergency call it is my opinion that dialing 911 in the State of New Hampshire ensures the shortest response possible while also making sure that your call is always routed to the appropriate agency. Times have indeed changed, for the better, over the last few years!

[Seeker]

I have an older VHF handheld SMR Sealab 9000. It needs a battery which costs $29.99 and takes about 30 days minimum to get. (Unless you know someone who can solder 8 1.2V ni-cads together.) I have the manual, case and charger. If anyone can use it it's free. It's an older, larger radio but will give you the marine freqs plus 4 wx channels.
PM me if you want it and we'll discuss pickup.

[NH_boater]

You guys pushed me over the edge. Added handheld 6 watt VHF today. Better to have and not need then.......

Plus, I now feel better equipped to help out someone else in distress.

[VitaBene]

This is a great thread- thank you for starting it!!

[CrownRay]

I always monitor 16, as is the law...

oh, and 16 is not for hailing by the way....call your buddies and have your kids do radio checks on 9....just sayin....

[Colby]

Originally Posted by CrownRay

I always monitor 16, as is the law...

oh, and 16 is not for hailing by the way....call your buddies and have your kids do radio checks on 9....just sayin....

I thought calling and hailing (not radio checks) was done on channel 16.

If it is the law to monitor Channel 16 then who is listening to channel 9 for calling, hailing and radio checks?

[NH_boater]

Per USCG, channel 16 is internationally recognized for hailing and distress/emergency calls. There are strict procedures for hailing, as you would expect.

[Weekend Pundit]

I must concur with many of the comments here. I have always had VHF on my boats over the years (and HF on the two sailboats I've crewed on) and it has been far more useful than a cell phone, particularly on the lake.

While I've had only one occasion to call for assistance while boating on the big lake (my boat lost its screw between Dockham Shore and Governor's Island), the VHF rig made it easier to call Tow Boat US and direct them to my exact location. Two calls on Channel 16 was all it took. That's a lot better and more immediate than having to go through their 800 number and waiting to be put through to the local Tow Boat operator.

When I'm at home I listen on Ch 16 with my scanner and I have to admit that if nothing else it can be...umm...amusing at times, particularly when someone calls for assistance because their boat has broken down but they don't know where they are! (Maybe we should add that if you have a VHF radio you should also have a chart and know how to read it!)

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

Two calls on Channel 16 was all it took. That's a lot better and more immediate than having to go through their 800 number and waiting to be put through to the local Tow Boat operator.

Call them direct at 293-2300

When I'm at home I listen on Ch 16 with my scanner and I have to admit that if nothing else it can be...umm...amusing at times, particularly when someone calls for assistance because their boat has broken down but they don't know where they are! (Maybe we should add that if you have a VHF radio you should also have a chart and know how to read it!)

I believe a cell phone can be triangulated to find your location.Can VHF do that?Not sure.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I believe a cell phone can be triangulated to find your location.Can VHF do that?Not sure.

Yes a VHF radio can be triangulated assuming it's transmitting. The direction finding principle is what is used in emergency beacons, etc.

For emergency communication on the water, a PAN-PAN (or mayday) on Ch 16 will be heard by many people including MP.

A cell phone means you do to a dispatch, then the proper agency has to be notified, etc. Time gets wasted....

IMO there is no substitute for a radio. Go to a ham fest and you get get some really nice used stuff for way cheaper than new as well.

[NH_boater]

VHF can locate by GPS via DSC. Even better, IMO, is that VHF can get help from another boat that may be a couple of minutes away. Beauty of VHF, I have decided, is that also have my cell phone too. Cell phone alone seems like help could be many, many minutes away at best.

I don't think there is any right or wrong approach, just decisions we make to balance entertainment, safety and expense.

[NH_boater]

I also find it interesting that 60% of boaters that replied to this poll have VHF. This is more than double what I expected when I set up the poll.

[NoRegrets]

There was an example this weekend on the lake where both radio and cell phone came to the assistance to a work baot.

The work boat was trying to hail it's base on the VHF with no luck. After a few minutes they called out on the VHF to request anyone that had a cell phone to call the marina and tell them to turn on their radio. Within a short time we could hear the VHF conversation. The work boat was towing another boat and it was acting up. He did not feel confident he could make it back and asked them to standby to give assistance if needed.

Radio - Cell - Radio. Great relay work passed the information on.

[Skip]

Just a few points of technical clarification....

In order for the DSC feature to work on your VHF/DSC capable radio, you must have a GPS receiver interfaced with your VHF radio. I have seen a great number of VHF/DSC radios installed where the owner was not aware he needed a separate GPS input. Manufacturers are now selling both fixed and handheld VHF radios with built in GPS receivers to simplify ownership and installation.

VHF radios can be triangulated, but the only facilities capable of doing so presently are some US Coastguard facilities all located on the coast. Additionally distance from the triangulation receive site increases location error, and any fixes on an inland boat on Winnipesaukee (if two or more coastal stations could even receive such a transmission concurrently) would not only have a significant location error, but it would take a considerable amount of time and numerous inter-agency phone calls to even atempt such a fix.

Dialing 911 on your cell phone instanly transmits your location, usually accurate to within meters, to the 911 call center. This information is then instantaneously transmitted electronically and via voice to the nearest responders that would be necessary to go to your emergency. The constant inference that there are serious delays when you call 911 are again not only inaccurate, but could prove deadly if you listen to this bad advice.

The best of both worlds? Carrying both a VHF radio and a cell phone, as several astute posters here have already indicated. As mentioned a VHF radio can help you gain assistance from nearby boats also equipped with VHF radios and a cell phone can pinpoint your location if you are unsure or unable to relay it, such as after dark, in fog or bad weather or in a location unfamiliar to you.

Finally remember that at any given time you or your regular boating crew that knows how to operate the radio could be incapacitated. A boating guest unfamiliar with the radio may be hesitant or unable to operate that same radio. Something that seems natural or easy to us can be very frightening to someone who has never operated a two way radio. But virtually anyone that knows how to dial a cell phone can pick up any model and simply dial 911.

Whenever I boat, wherever I boat I always carry both a VHF radio and a cell phone....

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Skip

Dialing 911 on your cell phone instanly transmits your location, usually accurate to within meters, to the 911 call center. This information is then instantaneously transmitted electronically and via voice to the nearest responders that would be necessary to go to your emergency. The constant inference that there are serious delays when you call 911 are again not only inaccurate, but could prove deadly if you listen to this bad advice.

Strike a nerve did we?

I think you may have stretched some inferences but I must challenge you on your declaration.

First, nobody said not to call 911. We are discussing the need of aid (degree of which was not specified) while on the water. An overheated boat is not an emergency while a drowning or cardiac event is.... When you press the talk button on Ch 16 you are in essence making your 911 call to MP with the added benefit of alerting anyone on the water of the situation who may be nearby and able to assist.

Second, I have served in the fire-rescue as a FF-EMT(I) as well as at a major medical center in cardiac care both clinically and in research. I can't even begin to tell you the number of times I've seen centralized 911 calls get screwed up with the wrong agency, equipment, and location dispatched. That is delay.... It's part the callers fault for providing inadequate details of the situation as well as the 911 operators lack of local knowledge. Example1: 911 dispatches to the wrong town because of the callers location even though another town may be closer to the scene, etc.
Example2: You call centralized 911 who then dispatches MP. That is slower than hailing directly to MP.

A cell phone is a risky proposition in the Lakes Region. I have AT&T and it's very common to have no phone service. The cells phones are nice when they work but the VHF is a much better option in an emergency.

Not trying to split hairs. By all means people should call 911 ASAP but while on the water a call via VHF has several benefits. If you have multiple passengers have one call on VHF and one on the phone. It would be interesting to see if they would dispatch the same agencies and have the same response tree......

[Skip]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Strike a nerve did we?...Not trying to split hairs. By all means people should call 911 ASAP but while on the water a call via VHF has several benefits. If you have multiple passengers have one call on VHF and one on the phone. It would be interesting to see if they would dispatch the same agencies and have the same response tree......

Nope, didn't strike a nerve at all...I am more interested in getting the most correct information out to folks that boat in New Hampshire waters.

Each State runs a different type of E911 dispatch center. For example, Maine's PSAP system is completely different than New Hampshire's.

In New Hampshire you will get the quickest and most accurate response by utilizing our centralized E911 system. That is not conjecture, but a simple fact. I have worked as a firefighter in New Hampshire under the original localized 911 system when it first arrived in the seventies. I have also worked the newer centralized system as a police officer for well over 20 years. I have worked first hand with the existing system for the past 14 years.

The emergency response system in New Hampshire has been designed to originate from Concord for a variety of safety, technical and personnel reasons. To bypass that system and attempt to contact local agencies direct, either by phone or radio, bypasses the safety features of the system. Additionally, many local dispatch centers are designed to have limited personnel on duty as there function is to dispatch local response personnel and not be tied up directly on the phone with multiple calls. For example If an agency only has one dispatcher on duty and they are inundated with direct calls or a lengthy single call it can and does delay dispatch of appropriate first responders.

You are obviously unfamiliar with New Hampshire's system and are giving out bad, potentially deadly advice.

But as not to beat a dead horse here I have made my point. The reader is free to determine which advice is more appropriate to follow.

Skip

[lawn psycho]

Skip we are taking about aid on the water not "in general". CH16 is monitored.

I know all too well about centralized dispatching and it's not infallible (far from it actually).

[Skip]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Skip we are taking about aid on the water not "in general". CH16 is monitored.

I know all too well about centralized dispatching and it's not infallible (far from it actually).

I sent you a PM as I don't want to monopolize this very important and informative thread....

[jrc]

Pretty much every family has at one cell phone so having a cell phone on the boat is a no-brainer.

As to VHF, you can buy a handheld for less than $100. For the lake that will do. Anybody would be better off with one than without.

Personally when I broke down, I used my cell phone to call the boatus 800 number. They called the local guy, who called me when he was able to come get us.

This was a non-emergency situation, engine wouldn't start while floating in the Broads. In an emergency...OK I'm trying to think which I would do. I would dial 911, guaranteed successful connection. The VHF might get a response, might have to wait for the MP to realize what I said. Might be out of range, might get stepped on by some chucklehead, who knows.

Obviously any delay would send me to the backup. But today, with the coverage and the stability of the phone network, 911 would be first.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Call them direct at 293-2300

I believe a cell phone can be triangulated to find your location.Can VHF do that?Not sure.

That's true if you go through E911. But what if you call the local TowBoat US or SeaTow on your cell? They aren't necessarily set up to read your location. Assuming they are, is that cell phone configured for location services for E911 only or for all calls?

In regards to VHF DF'ing, some boats are set up with that capability. (If you see an array of four equally spaced vertical antennas on a single mount or mast, that's a DF antenna.) For Coast Guard the DF array will pick up both marine VHF transmissions and EPIRB transmitters on 121.5MHz. (Yes, I know they now transmit on 406MHz and include GPS information, but there's still a low power 121.5MHz transmitter for localization once the CG or CAP arrives on scene.)

[laketrout]

I use a handheld VHF;
For emergencies and mostly to listen to the weather channels for updates in case a quick hitting tstorm hits the lake.
The VHF floats too . That said it is a Standard and I do not know if it has the range to be heard unless I am in a busy area or the boards.

[painthappy]

I picked up a nice hand held for my sailboat over the winter. I don't normally have it out and handy, but after reading this thread, I will start to do that.

[fatlazyless]

For about sixty dollars Radio Shack sells an analog/digital converter box that gets hooked up between your big ancient tv set and the rabbit ears w/ turn knob antenna so's you can get the standard VHF channels 4-9-11 with some okey-dokey reception on a good day and no monthly cable or satellite subscription charges. VHF= very high frequency, in case you was wondering!

[garysanfran]

For emergencies only. My cell phone doesn't work if it gets submerged, so, in case I fall overboard, I can summon help. I do a lot of solo-sailing.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Even if you have VHF, please consider putting these numbers in you cell phone.

Copied and pasted from Marine Patrol's web site to avoid any errors on my part.

In an emergency situation, call 603-293-2037 or 877-642-9700.

You won't have time to find the number in an emergency so please put it in you phone now.

Are these still good numbers? The last time I dialed them, I got into a NH State Police "telephone-tree":

"If you know know your party's extension—dial it now".

[Kamper]

Use 911 id you are using your cell phone for an emergency. I had previously suggested using direct numbers but it was pointed out that 911 will almost always have more operators on duty. Other reasons were advised to me but 911 has access to your cell phone's "GPS" co-ordinates and can relay them to MP if you lose the connection.

Refer to Skip's posts above for more detail.

Good luck!

[Orion]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

For emergencies only. My cell phone doesn't work if it gets submerged, so, in case I fall overboard, I can summon help. I do a lot of solo-sailing.

Most of the time when around the dock/boat, I have my cell phone in a 10 cent ziplock bag in my pocket. Cheap insurance and it's fully operable (smart phone) in the bag. Should work if I go overboard or if a sudden gust flips my Force 5 sailboat.

[laketrout]

I have a VHF handheld I guess its a carryover from my Ocean boating days.
In any case its nice to have for Weather Alerts and just in case - I.e. the cell phone doesnt work.