Which boat??

[upnorth]

Hi all,

I'm new to the lakes, to this forum and to boating. The info here is great and I thought I'd ask a question of my own. I want to buy a boat and I've narrowed my choices down (I think!) to two: Crownline 202BR and Four Winns Horizon 200. Any thoughts on these or local dealers? I read the posts about Crownline and there is nothing but good things to say; my issue with the 202BR is mostly seating style. (We are a family of 5 with 3 small kids -- my suspicion with the sport seating is that it will be hard for the kids to get in from and out to the swim platform when we go tubing). The Horizon got great reviews from a recent boating magazine, is a bit less expensive and the seating style works. What am I overlooking? Also, any thoughts on engine sizes and injected vs. carbureted. Thanks!

[Just Sold]

I would ask which lake, Winninpesaukee of Winnisquam, are you planning on being on. Both lakes have dealers for both manufactures. Winnipesauke can be a little rougher at times and that is a consideration in a boat purchase and the boats ability to handle rougher conditions. If it is $$$ the Four Winns is the top choice and its sounds from your observations that the Four Winns has what you are looking for (seating arrangement) in a boat. If you are going to be on a lake for a whole day then a place to lay down or a private, or semi private, porta poti is a must for the woman in my family. Certainly eliminates a side trip to a shore facility.

From what I have read both are good boat manufactures but you have to decide. I own an older (89) Four Winns 225 Sundowner (See my Avitar, bought used) and feel it is a great boat with a lot of thought in the layout and functionality. Crownline has really become a boating name for itself too. Mechanically both boats offer the same drive train so that eliminates one area for comparrison.

I suggest looking at re-sales of these boats and the one with the higher resale $$ is a good bet at being a better investment.
Just an opinion as you have to make that final decision.

[robjnh]

I owned a 202BR before we bought our Malibu Sunsetter. We loved ever part of the boat except the prop being so close to the kids when the climb up the swim platform. An extended swim platform may fix this problem and all I/O's have this problem to a certain extent. The resale is very strong on these boats as well. They had no trouble with the sunpad and the boat was super deep so we felt very comfortable with them in the boat.

FWIW, We have since moved to a Malibu Sunsetter since we are on Winnisquam and spend 90% of our time skiing, wakeboarding or Tubing. The benifits to an inboard are the prop is under the boat, we can use a boom (metal pole connected to the center sky pylon) to teach the kids to ski and cruise control. The big disadvantage is it cannot handle any rough water and the cost about 15% more than regular bowriders.

The Boston Boat show is coming next week. Check it out at the Bayside expo center. It is one of my kids favorite things to do. Also don't forget to test dirve before you buy.

[Rinkerfam]

I'm going to throw another brand into the mix for you to consider. Take a look at the Rinker 212 Captiva. This boat has a walk through transom which makes entry/exit easy. You can also opt for an extended swim platform which all but eliminates the outdrive danger. Construction, fit and finish on the Rinker line has put them on many boating magazines favorable lists. Also, dollar for dollar Rinker still offers more standard features that other manufacturers have as expensive add-ons. As far as power goes, you have several choices with Rinker. I'm a Merc. fan, and fuel injection is definitely the way to go.
Happy shopping!

[Mee-n-Mac]

I think the others have asked some good questions. If you'll be boating on Winnipesaukee, the boat with better rough water ability is desired. Less so if you'll be on 'squam. Both boats are well made so the Crownie may have a few more niceities and perhaps better fit-n-finish but you'll have to decide if they are worth the extra $$. You've hit on one of the more important things, deck layout. I'll add some other things for your consideration. Are you comfortable at the helm ? Does the seat have enough range of motion to fit you? Can you stand w/o the seat interfering (better yet does it have a flip-up bolster)? Does the throttle fall to hand? Does the carpet snap-in, -out.

Storage space is another large issue. Where will you store the PFD's (in-use and out-of-use), the fenders, the anchor, the docklines, etc ? No boat ever has enough storage but more is better. With kids I anticipate ski and wakeboard storage as well.

Unique to bowriders I would ask if there's a windblocker to stop the wind from flowing under the windsheild and back into the cockpit. What are you getting for canvas ? I'd suggest that you get a cover for the bow that can be used independantly from a cockpit cover or mooring cover. This way if you're out on cold or windy days you can stop the wind (in lieu of the aforementioned blocker) or more importantly (in the event of big waves) the water from entering the bow section. Also are you going to want a Bimini top ?

On the question of engines I would strongly suggest fuel injection. It'll pay for itself in economy and in frustration reduction. Given you'll be towing kids around I'd opt for a V8, over a V6, for the broader torque curve. Besides Dad or Mom may want to go skiing as well

Lastly it sounds like you're buying a new boat vs a used boat. Given you've admitted to being new to boating, it often is that people in your situation don't quite know what their real boating needs are ... or that they may change after a couple of years. Trading in a used boat (now having some experience on the lake) for the next one (you really want) is less expensive than trading in a new boat. I've not checked to be sure but I suspect you could find a few boats, 2-5 seasons old, of the type you're looking at, in the various marinas around the lake(s). Then again don't let me be a sour grape here, if you know what you want, go for it. Neither boat (or the Rinker) is a "loser" by any means.

[SPANKY]

sounds like you've got some good advice so far. i stopped into the manchester boat show over the weekend to see some of this years boats. another thing you may want to consider on your boat purchase is the amount of freeboard it has ( the distance from the floor to the top of the gunnels ). more freeboard would make the seating deeper ( safer ) in the bow section. and as mentioned, i would definitely suggest a bimini top so you can easily have a bit of often needed shade. two more suggestions, and something my next boat will have, stern mounted controls for both the stereo and the tilt / trim, nice to have when your anchored and floating on a tube or pulling into a sandbar. neither of these are expensive options, and would make for great convenience. good luck and let us know how you make out

[Belmont Resident]

I also started out in the boat size your looking at. One of the most important things to consider is where you are going to use the boat. So many people voice their concerns about how rough the lake is, many of these boaters are in 19-22' boats. Even on a day with no wind the chop created by the sheer volume of boats can have even the experienced boater scratching his/her head. If you are going to be on the big lake and you have not already you might want to consider testing out the boats you have decided on.
Take a ride over to Weirs bay, it doesn't get much worse then that.
Others have mentioned extended swim platform, a must have with kids.
I've seen first hand what a prop can do to knee's, of course they do sell covers you can put over the prop. Another bonus is a walk through. Walking over a sun deck will trash the pad in 2-3 years both from boarding with shoes and from swimmers.
Whatever you decide good luck and remember the boater safety requirements for you and your children.

[SHICKS]

After I sold my Sea-Ray 18' I researched both of these boats. The Crownline does not have as deep of a dead rise as the forwinns. This makes is get on plane faster, but not as good in rough water, correct me if I am wrong.

The quality and resale seemed better on the crownline and the boat felt wider from the inside. I liked the gel coat and vinyl on the crownline at lot better. I think Crownline may have another 20ft boat in their lineup with a deeper v.

Steve

[Dave R]

Feel compelled to chime in on carbs vs. fuel injection. FI is very nice but it can be quite expensive. My advice is: shop for displacement, not HP. A bigger carb engine can cost less money than a smaller displacement FI engine and will give more satisfying performance due to increased low end torque (which is a function of displacement). Two engines with the same HP rating ought to give the same top speed but the larger of the two will get you on plane more quickly and offer better mid range punch.

Carbs get a bad rap but they really are not at all bad in a boat. FI is wonderfully suited to engines operating in extreme temperature and altitude variations, and under constantly variable loads (like in a car). Pleasure boats operate in a very limited temperature range and altitude change is obviously not an issue... They also operate with very stable loads. The only advantage FI has over a carb in this regard is easier starting and the newest Mercruisers have "fixed" that "problem" (you need to pump the throttle a couple of times when cold on the old design) with new carbs this year. I am certain FI has no more than a negligible advantage in fuel economy at anything above idle speed.

I would not get either boat with it's base engine if it's a 4.3 V6. Opt for a bigger displacement V8 if you can afford it. You won't regret it, especially when it comes time to sell the boat. Also, if you choose a Volvo Penta package, do not spend any extra money on thier 5.7 liter 320 HP GXi vs, the 5.7 liter 280 HP GX. The GXi offers almost no real power advantage over the GX. The GX makes around 300 HP and is likely de-rated to make the GXi more attractive...

[Just Wonderin]

JD Power and Associates has a website that rates consumer satisfaction on cars, boats, electronics, etc.

Here is the link to boats. Just click on the type of boat you're looking for and see what other owners have to say.

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/index.jsp

[robjnh]

Dave,

I completly agree with you on the FI vs. Carb. I had a carb on my Crownline and never had any problem starting it. I did however have a lot of people that never even came to look at the boat when they discoved it was not FI.

Most people have FI drilled into there heads as the only way to go so if you think you want to flip the boat in a few years you got to go along with the crowd IMO.

I would also throw in that if you think you are going to tow a lot, I would opt for the Volvo or the BIII. Dual prop gets out of whole much better.

[Highlander]

I am partial to Crownline, i have had very good luck with my 2003 BR180. Have you looked into the 206LS or the 216LS, they are about the same LOA as the 202BR and both have walk through transmoms that offer easy access to the swim platform. Crownline is a great boat for the dollar and the folks at Channel Marine are great to deal with. As far as carb vs injected, the performance is much better from the fuel injected engines than from the carbureted models. God luck and happy boating, spring is on it's way.

[Grady223]

I agree with Just Sold - 20' boat is too small for the Big Lake unless you plan on staying is the smaller coves.

[secondcurve]

The most important thing you can take away from these excellent comments is size does matter! I wouldn't go with anything less than 23 feet out on Winnipesaukee. Trust me. Also, look at used boats. They depreciate so quickly. I think a model that is about 5-years would be the best. Good Luck!

[Liquorish]

After owning 3 Four Winns, I have nothing but good things to say about them,and Winnisquam marine, those guys are great.. However, at 20 ft, especialy on the big lake be prepared for some tough rides.. my first 4 winns was a 20ft Horizon, fun boat but tough in rough waters, which seems like all the time on Winni... Both boats would be a good choice, but I would reccomend buying larger if you can. Good Luck

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by upnorth

Hi all, {snip} Any thoughts on these or local dealers? {snip} Thanks!

So far no one has commented on a very important aspect of your new boat purchase, warranty and service work. What some people won't tell you is that the Lake Winnipesaukee Four Winns dealer, Melvin Village Marine, REFUSES to do warranty work and regular service work unless you purchased your boat from them. That was an unpleasant unexpected surprise for me several years ago. Thank goodness for Winnisquam Marine (and for their skill and attitude) who came to my rescue on Lake Winnipesaukee when Melvin Village Marine wouldn't even listen to the warranty problem. My boat was not purchased in NH.

I'll spare veteran forum readers from a rehash of Melvin Village Marine and their Denial of Service policy - just be forewarned. If interested, you can read my thoughts from an archived thread Skipper responds to Melvin Village Marine Supporters along with other messages (both pro and con) on that subject. I can not do business with an authorized dealership, like Melvin Village Marine, that embraces such a denial of service policy. Winnisquam Marine is the area Four Winns dealer I recommend.

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. Hope to see you on the Lake.

[codeman671]

Check out the Monterey boat line at Shep Brown's in Meredith. I just purchased a boat from them and they are wonderful to deal with. Talk with Bob McDermott. If you hare staying on Winnio watch out for some dealers that try to hold you hostage for slips, if you do not buy from them do not bother looking for a slip. A certain unnamed dealer in Gilford tried that crap with me. Needless to say he can keep his boat and I will keep my business elsewhere...

[Grady223]

You want to buy the last boat you'll ever buy - get a Grady White. 22' hull will handle anything the Big Lake can dish out. It will cost you a lot more than the upholstered boats beign suggested but you'll never need another one - it will last forever (may have to hang a couple of new engines on it over the next 30 years) and 20 year old Gradys still sell for 50%+ of their original price. I have the 22' Tournament (bow-rider) and love it.

[robmac]

The big question was brought up. Along with where it will be used,and price certainly a service friendly facility is very important.Unlike a car you can't just call for a rental replacement with a short season you want that peace of mind the dealer can and will get you back on the water quickly.I've had very good luck with the team at Shep Browns Boat Basin(I don't own a brand they sell)they were both responsive and resonable with pricing and got me back out enjoying the lake quickly with quality workmanship.And in closing don't jump to buy without trying it out in rough water,it's a big purchase and should be enjoyable.

[gtxrider]

I opt for FOURWINNS (personal experience). Never road in a Crownline.

I would say 20-23' is plenty.

Size is not that important as long as you know how to use the handle to your right (throttle). Perhaps if you want to cruse at 40+mph you need a huge boat. We have 19ft FOURWINNS and it is just fine out in the lake just take it easy. I have gone on rides on the jetski and it is fine as long as the speed is moderated. We used to take our 15' Starcraft up to Burger King or Wendy's from Alton Bay and lived to tell about it. Ah to be young and foolish instead of old and foolish.

I don't recall any pictures of boats that have flipped being of the small runabout size only big boats. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Commodore]

Originally Posted by upnorth

Hi all,

I'm new to the lakes, to this forum and to boating. The info here is great and I thought I'd ask a question of my own. I want to buy a boat and I've narrowed my choices down (I think!) to two: Crownline 202BR and Four Winns Horizon 200. Any thoughts on these or... Thanks!

Size does matter. Will this be an introductory boat that you will trade in a year or two? Are you expecting this to be your boat for the next 10 years? In my experience, new boaters almost always wish they bought a slightly bigger boat with more engine hp. If you plan to keep this boat awhile remember that the kids grow fast. You or the kids will want to bring friends along. Your boat will seem to shrink yearly and you will have more trouble getting on plane.

If you are going to keep the boat awhile my suggestion is to decide on what you want then add a few feet and buy the bigger model of the boat. Lots of boaters though have great fun on Winnie with the size boat you are considering.

Don't forget the safe boating education courses. Let us know what you get and WELCOME to the forum and the lake.

[Grady223]

You are wrong. A 14' aluminum flipped 2-3 years ago between Rattlesnake and Barndoor, losing 2 of the 3 in it.

[upnorth]

Well, we took the plunge, so to speak, and bought an '05 Four Winns Horizon 200 (I was like a kid in a candy store.)

So, I wanted to take a minute and thank you all for the very helpful comments. I think that after reading all the suggestions and taking the advice of nearly all, we confirmed our initial thoughts.

To answer some specific questions/comments, we went with the VolvoPenta 5.0L fuel injected engine for both the added power for pulling the dad as well as resale (although at this point, I could never part with it!)

Bought the boat from Winnisquam Marine and can echo, and I mean ECHO, the sentiment that they are superb folks to deal with and have every expectation that they will be with me for the long haul.

New England boat show was a very good way to also confirm my opinions. Recommend it for anyone looking to get into a new boat.

Thanks again!

[gtxrider]

Congratulations on the purchase. Iceout is just around the corner and there will be plenty of open water. Just remember, "a boat is a hole in the water you throw money in!" It is money well spent. Ah the memories of the time on the water and the day dreams of those yet to happen.

[robjnh]

BREAK OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND - But worth every penny. Congrats

[jkjoshuatree]

Four Winns.