Is it soap suds?

welch100 · 08-19-2013, 11:10 AM

Periodically, we get what looks like a quantity of soap suds washing up on our island beach. This may sounds like a stupid question, but I've always wondered if that phenomenon really is soap. Is there some other cause? How would we find out? Take a water sample to Concord for testing?

Thanks!

LadyoftheLake · 08-19-2013, 02:01 PM

Welch,

I have seen those soapy looking masses many times. I was told it was from "algae blooms" caused by acid rain. I was curious enough to search for more info and here is a link from the gov/epa

http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/effects/surface_water.html

I wish that someday it will disappear by helping with cleaner air.

Happy Boating to all.

Lakegeezer · 08-20-2013, 06:38 AM

The NH DES has an article about lake foam. Here is part of it.

The foaming of surface waters on lakes is not a new phenomenon. It is a natural process that has been going on for a long time. Foam is created when the surface tension of water (attraction of surface molecules for each other) is reduced and the air is mixed in, forming bubbles. Man-made agents can also reduce surface tension. All lakes contain organic matter, such as algae and plants, and when these decompose they release cellular products (surfactant) into the water, which lessons the surface tension. When the wind blows, the waves on the lake agitate this surface agent, thus transforming it into sudsy white foam. Currents and boats also mix air with the organic compounds present in the lake to produce foam.

While the acid rain creates problems for the lake, it also helps to keep the zebra muscles away. The acid makes it hard for them to form calcium shells. I believe the rain has become less acidic since the steel mills shut down, but coal-fired power plants still contribute acid to the air upstream. The NH DES also has an article on acid rain and lists some water bodies with impact. Lake Winni is not on the list, but it probably should be.

Merrymeeting · 08-20-2013, 07:41 AM

I participate with a group that does weekly water testing on Merrymeeting Lake. The samples and results are sent to the UNH Extension Service. A quick search shows that the same is done on Winnipesaukee, in multiple locations.

http://cfb.unh.edu/programs/LLMP/nhllmp.htm

http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/moni.../introduction/

I did not find any of the 2012 water quality reports for Winni. The Merrymeeting one can be found here. http://www.mmlake.org/MMLA_documents...2%20Report.pdf

The good news is that we have been getting pH readings of 7.1-7.3 all year, consistent with other years. As much of this water flows into Alton Bay, I would expect this to be true in that area also.

While many other factors need to be considered when assessing these numbers (buffering capacity, sample depths/areas/locations, etc), the numbers indicate that acidity of our water is not an issue...yet.

welch100 · 08-22-2013, 11:51 AM

to all for the great info! I'm so glad to hear it's not soap after all.

rgilfert · 08-23-2013, 06:10 AM

We are situated on the west end of Rattlesnake on the Broads side and have noticed that when the foam accumulates off shore it tends to occur in virtually the exact same position every time. In our neck-of-the-woods the foam manifests itself as a long (1/2 Mi +/-), narrow (20' +/-) band that is consistently approx 100' offshore. We had a mooring installed this year and we have noticed the the foam band consistently passes right past the mooring ball (i.e .it forms almost exactly 100' from shore). There must be some reason explaining why it (i.e. the long band of foam) seldom moves closer to shore. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that there is a shelf off shore on our end of the island that extends out perhaps 150' from the shore and then the bottom drops off quickly. Despite the fact that our mooring is about 100' from shore it is only in 7.5' of water...and if you go out perhaps 50' further it becomes deep quickly. We feel that the pattern/location of the foam band must have something to do with this natural shelf/ledge...but can't for a minute hazard a guess as to why. Does anyone know?

PaugusBayFireFighter · 08-23-2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgilfert

We are situated on the west end of Rattlesnake on the Broads side and have noticed that when the foam accumulates off shore it tends to occur in virtually the exact same position every time. In our neck-of-the-woods the foam manifests itself as a long (1/2 Mi +/-), narrow (20' +/-) band that is consistently approx 100' offshore. We had a mooring installed this year and we have noticed the the foam band consistently passes right past the mooring ball (i.e .it forms almost exactly 100' from shore). There must be some reason explaining why it (i.e. the long band of foam) seldom moves closer to shore. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that there is a shelf off shore on our end of the island that extends out perhaps 150' from the shore and then the bottom drops off quickly. Despite the fact that our mooring is about 100' from shore it is only in 7.5' of water...and if you go out perhaps 50' further it becomes deep quickly. We feel that the pattern/location of the foam band must have something to do with this natural shelf/ledge...but can't for a minute hazard a guess as to why. Does anyone know?

Just guessing, since the surfactant is produced by decomposition of plant material, could that shelf provide an abundant area of algae and other plant life that causes a large release of the surfactant which would cause the foam?
Just a guess

garysanfran · 08-23-2013, 10:03 AM

It says although salt water, the salt is NOT the reason for the foam...

http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/...d/gladfoam.htm

garysanfran · 08-23-2013, 10:06 AM

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ments/bb-5.pdf

ApS · 08-23-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welch100

to all for the great info! I'm so glad to hear it's not soap after all.

Now, after decades of resistance, even dishwasher soap must meet higher biodegradable standards, so soap would be a very unlikely cause of foam in this lake.

The "test" is to scoop up the suds and smell them. I've never detected soap odor, even before any Phosphorus standards came into being.

Perhaps it was in the old forum, but I'd written of Langmuir Streaks before; however, Google doesn't return Langmuir Streaks—but Langmuir Circulation.

(News to me).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langmuir_circulation

In especially strong winds, I've counted as many as 11 parallel streaks off our particular shoreline. By October, the foam can appear in long cylindrical clumps—much like beige-colored swim noodles.

08-19-2013, 11:10 AM	#1
welch100 Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Welch Island, Gilford Posts: 49 Thanks: 34 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Is it soap suds? Periodically, we get what looks like a quantity of soap suds washing up on our island beach. This may sounds like a stupid question, but I've always wondered if that phenomenon really is soap. Is there some other cause? How would we find out? Take a water sample to Concord for testing? Thanks!

08-19-2013, 02:01 PM	#2
LadyoftheLake Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: MA and NH Posts: 18 Thanks: 31 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Soap Suds ? Welch, I have seen those soapy looking masses many times. I was told it was from "algae blooms" caused by acid rain. I was curious enough to search for more info and here is a link from the gov/epa http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/effects/surface_water.html I wish that someday it will disappear by helping with cleaner air. Happy Boating to all. __________________ There is no better place to be on a beautiful day, then on a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee Last edited by LadyoftheLake; 08-19-2013 at 02:02 PM. Reason: spell

08-20-2013, 06:38 AM	#3
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,657 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 342 Thanked 618 Times in 278 Posts	Suds are usually normal (unless your neighbor is bathing in the lake) The NH DES has an article about lake foam. Here is part of it. The foaming of surface waters on lakes is not a new phenomenon. It is a natural process that has been going on for a long time. Foam is created when the surface tension of water (attraction of surface molecules for each other) is reduced and the air is mixed in, forming bubbles. Man-made agents can also reduce surface tension. All lakes contain organic matter, such as algae and plants, and when these decompose they release cellular products (surfactant) into the water, which lessons the surface tension. When the wind blows, the waves on the lake agitate this surface agent, thus transforming it into sudsy white foam. Currents and boats also mix air with the organic compounds present in the lake to produce foam. While the acid rain creates problems for the lake, it also helps to keep the zebra muscles away. The acid makes it hard for them to form calcium shells. I believe the rain has become less acidic since the steel mills shut down, but coal-fired power plants still contribute acid to the air upstream. The NH DES also has an article on acid rain and lists some water bodies with impact. Lake Winni is not on the list, but it probably should be. __________________ -lg

08-22-2013, 11:51 AM	#5
welch100 Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Welch Island, Gilford Posts: 49 Thanks: 34 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks to all for the great info! I'm so glad to hear it's not soap after all.

08-23-2013, 06:10 AM	#6
rgilfert Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Bedford, NH / Rattlesnake Island Posts: 299 Thanks: 152 Thanked 227 Times in 57 Posts	Why Does the Foam Accumulate Where It Does? We are situated on the west end of Rattlesnake on the Broads side and have noticed that when the foam accumulates off shore it tends to occur in virtually the exact same position every time. In our neck-of-the-woods the foam manifests itself as a long (1/2 Mi +/-), narrow (20' +/-) band that is consistently approx 100' offshore. We had a mooring installed this year and we have noticed the the foam band consistently passes right past the mooring ball (i.e .it forms almost exactly 100' from shore). There must be some reason explaining why it (i.e. the long band of foam) seldom moves closer to shore. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that there is a shelf off shore on our end of the island that extends out perhaps 150' from the shore and then the bottom drops off quickly. Despite the fact that our mooring is about 100' from shore it is only in 7.5' of water...and if you go out perhaps 50' further it becomes deep quickly. We feel that the pattern/location of the foam band must have something to do with this natural shelf/ledge...but can't for a minute hazard a guess as to why. Does anyone know?

The Following User Says Thank You to Lakegeezer For This Useful Post:
CateP (08-23-2013)

08-20-2013, 07:41 AM	#4
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,217 Thanks: 299 Thanked 795 Times in 365 Posts	I participate with a group that does weekly water testing on Merrymeeting Lake. The samples and results are sent to the UNH Extension Service. A quick search shows that the same is done on Winnipesaukee, in multiple locations. http://cfb.unh.edu/programs/LLMP/nhllmp.htm http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/moni.../introduction/ I did not find any of the 2012 water quality reports for Winni. The Merrymeeting one can be found here. http://www.mmlake.org/MMLA_documents...2%20Report.pdf The good news is that we have been getting pH readings of 7.1-7.3 all year, consistent with other years. As much of this water flows into Alton Bay, I would expect this to be true in that area also. While many other factors need to be considered when assessing these numbers (buffering capacity, sample depths/areas/locations, etc), the numbers indicate that acidity of our water is not an issue...yet.

The Following User Says Thank You to Merrymeeting For This Useful Post:
welch100 (08-22-2013)

08-23-2013, 10:03 AM	#8
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,491 Thanks: 604 Thanked 631 Times in 321 Posts	Try this... It says although salt water, the salt is NOT the reason for the foam... http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/...d/gladfoam.htm __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

08-23-2013, 10:06 AM	#9
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,491 Thanks: 604 Thanked 631 Times in 321 Posts	Or this... http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ments/bb-5.pdf __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~