Navionics LakeVu Winnipesaukee Problem!!

[Downeast]

Garmin "Navionics" LakeVu problem for Lake Winnipesaukee
Lake Winnipesaukee boaters, please be aware Garmin LakeVu charts, a Navionics cartography chapter, formerly known as "inland lakes and rivers" or "Lakes Detail" etc, has released an update sometime in the summer of 2022.

Photos below show general nav markers are NOT as they once appeared in the previous versions.

Please submit a chart error report with Garmin here:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/nav...v7xfWdLi58LR9/

Only if more users bring this to their attention, will it expedite a chart update.

LakeVu, by Navionics, now owned by Garmin, is NOT the same as the free "Navionics" app on your phone. Please be aware this is no fault to your service provider, but is an issue with the cartography itself.

If you have a previous version of LakeVu, DO NOT UPDATE via active captain as I am not certain you will be allow to back rev.


Until there is a fix, there are no decent charts available for use with Garmin that have auto route guidance.

Raymarine Lighthouse charts do not cover the lake nearly as well as LakeVu did. Bizer will not work with new model Garmin displays. Furthermore, Bizer is owned by C-MAP.

Cue the Jeopardy music while we wait.. or file a report with detailed screen shots and we might see an update faster.

Currently, only channel markers and lighted bouys are displayed correctly on the latest LakeVu, of which, is v23.xx however traditional spar makers are depicted without color and without proper information under 'info'. Traditional spar markers are identified as "beacons"

Firmware and chart updates do not fix the issue nor is there a setting on the display. it is within the recent versions of Navionics LakeVu discovered late summer 2022.

Pre LakeVu G3 V22.xx appear to be ok, its only 23.xx that has the issue!

SEND IN YOUR REPORTS!

[Rich]

I've been in communications with Garmin over this issue since last August. Pinging them periodically (almost monthly), they keep telling me that the fix is in process, but they can't tell me a timeline of when it will be released.

Their latest info as of March was this:

I have checked with our quality team and it has been escalated to the engineers as it is related to the display of the buoy icon rather than the characteristics of the buoy information. This is a bit of a longer process to update; hence the delay.

I know of TWO other Winnipesaukee boaters that have this same issue, @Downeast this makes at least four of us! I'm sure everyone has this issue, but perhaps they just choose to ignore it?

Basically, they removed the Red Top/Black Top coloring for the Navaids on the lake. Now you only get to see a white rectangle! To me and others this is a hazard for navigation as you can't decide which side of a marker to pass safely.

The Garmin charts do show some solid red and solid black markers, but do not properly display the red-top and black-top markers. We all know how important this information is!

If you zoom in on this via the Garmin map viewer you can see the issue clearly:
https://maps.garmin.com/en-US/marine/?key=drv0p1mwvmxu

Ironically if you look at the same area via the Navionics chart of the same area, but choose a non Garmin chart then the NavAids all look correct:
https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=uxbiGdxyrL

Attached are two photos to highlight the issue if you have difficulty using the chart viewer.

I also asked them to try to make the "suggested route" line more obvious as it gets lost in the clutter of depth lines, etc.

In talking to Garmin if you agree with this problem, submit a problem report and include the use the issue code CER-2015 so that they will know that many others are having this same issue.

Now that Navionics is handling the charts for Garmin, after reporting the issue to Garmin, it gets forwarded to Navionics.

Here is the note from the Navionics Product Support Specialist.

A CER report can be made through our online form - https://supportforms.garmin.com/en-U...-error-report/ and in the description they can reference CER-2015 so we can link them together but it is not necessary for the processing. If they don't want to fill out the online form, an email can be sent to help@navionics.com with their product details and we will happily create a new CER for them. Just have them reference CER-2015 in their email.

And further clarification on what CER-2015 is requesting as of March 9, 2023:

Unfortunately I have no time-frame for when it is going to be released. The icon display is the item being worked on to show the red top or black top at a glance instead of having to go into the details of the buoy to find out that information.

I can certainly suggest a different coloring for the recommended tracks in the area instead of being a black dotted line with black depth lines. I'll submit the form and you should receive the separate email letting you know it is submitted. Those are sent to the engineering team directly and I won't have access to that particular suggestion but you should have some information on how to respond/request contact.

I'll add that you only get ONE free update from Garmin on the chart within a year of purchase of your device! If you issue this bug report (including CER-2015) as a hazard to navigation to Garmin, I'm guessing that you can request a free updated chart when they fix the issue. When I called into the Garmin support line and discussed this with the Garmin support person, they made a note in my account to be sure I will receive the updated fixed chart at no charge, even if my "one free update" had expired (you must update the one free chart within a year of purchase).

This should probably be under the general "Boating" forum versus Boat Repairs and Maintenance, but that's only my opinion! LOL

[Descant]

I agree with Rich's comment about "recommended course" lines need to be better distinguished from bottom Contour lines. For my money, I'd love to see a layered approach so I could add or subtract features I want/don't want to see. The asterisks for rocks and the notation about rocky area, etc would be nice to add or subtract along with the bottom contour lines. ASfter planning, I don't need to have bridge clearance info printed out. The (excessive) detail is nice when I'm planning on a stable surface, but the clutter makes the chart or screen difficult to read when the boat is moving up/down/sideways. I guess, if I had a multi-function display, I could switch from chart to radar and back?

[Downeast]

I am quite surprised this observation has not struck a chord. 1000+ reads and no movement??

I will say, if you're an installer and your client comes back to you and say's where are my markers?, don't say I didn't warn you.

Ive Been there and it not a fun time..... From a $700 7" Echomap to a $3500 12" GPSmap, it's all the same chart. Its discouraging when the free app is more useful

[Rich]

I'm surprised that there are not more Garmin users seeing this. Unless they have an older chart without the problem? Or just don't care?

FYI, there is a 'duplicate' thread here on this same issue:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=383029

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm surprised that there are not more Garmin users seeing this. Unless they have an older chart without the problem? Or just don't care?

FYI, there is a 'duplicate' thread here on this same issue:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=383029

Honestly, I don't currently have the bandwidth to think about it right now. We've got a DV57 (I think) from 2014 that we've used without an issue.

My philosophy is that rocks don't move and the worst that can happen is we're over-cautious.

For example, last year a marker was removed that obviously will still be on our map—it won't hurt avoiding the "marker" (other than looking silly, maybe?!).

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[Dinooo1]

Thank you Downeast, I did not do the up date when it asked me to this year,still running last years chart. Every time I log on it’s asking me to update, not gonna do it!

[WillyK]

I got a new boat this season with Simrad evo3 units. Built-in charts were junk, so I ordered the Navionics Platinum+ U.S. East card. Installed it last weekend, to discover what I think is the same bug being reported by others on Garmin units.

White spar buoys with red/black tips are ALL marked the same. In my case, all solid black (looks like others are seeing them solid white on the Garmin rendering).

Navionics web app has them correct:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/mXuGZeE2

But my Simrad display does not differentiate between them:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/bLuZ8EJ4

I've emailed help@navionics.com, looking for a Simrad support channel now, as I'm a bit worried Nav will point fingers at Simrad, claiming it's a rendering problem in their software given that it looks correct on the official web chart.

Very frustrating, black/red distinction is a critical safety issue on Winni.

[Downeast]

Originally Posted by WillyK

I got a new boat this season with Simrad evo3 units. Built-in charts were junk, so I ordered the Navionics Platinum+ U.S. East card. Installed it last weekend, to discover what I think is the same bug being reported by others on Garmin units.

White spar buoys with red/black tips are ALL marked the same. In my case, all solid black (looks like others are seeing them solid white on the Garmin rendering).

Navionics web app has them correct:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/mXuGZeE2

But my Simrad display does not differentiate between them:
https://share.getcloudapp.com/bLuZ8EJ4

I've emailed help@navionics.com, looking for a Simrad support channel now, as I'm a bit worried Nav will point fingers at Simrad, claiming it's a rendering problem in their software given that it looks correct on the official web chart.

Very frustrating, black/red distinction is a critical safety issue on Winni.

$249 card is now less useful than the v22.xx. Garmin has us right where they want us. C'mon Raymarine, psssst here is your chance, to reinvent the Dragonfly. not everyone needs an MFD !

[WillyK]

I submitted a bug report to this URL, if others want to do the same:
https://supportforms.garmin.com/en-U...-error-report/

(that was the request from the Navionics support team, probably just passing the buck, but we'll see).

[swnoel]

I use my garmin charts and to be honest I don't care what the colors are. As long as the depth charts are correct and the buoy locations are too, I'm good.

[Rich]

Here's another example.

So you're on the lake, perhaps the sun is in your eyes, or the lighting is such that you can't see the colors clearly on the navaids. Perhaps you're in an area where you don't travel often.

So you glance at your Garmin to make an informed decision on which way to pass the markers that you can see coming up ahead.

Here's what you see on your display, which side of these markers do you pass?

Yes of course, check your paper chart, know where you are, use your compass, stop if needed, but the Garmin GPS should have been helpful here, instead of useless or confusing.

[Rich]

Here is essentially the same area of the same chart in the Navionics web viewer.

The markers are much more visible (black rectangles) and have a color square on top of them to show red-top vs black-top type of navaids to indicate which side is safe passage.

It's a simple change, and the information used to be on the Garmin charts. So we're trying to get them to fix this issue. They seem to be listening, but it's taking some time to get the results published.

I also asked them to make the 'suggested route' lines a bit easier to see, perhaps a different color or make the line thicker as the current implementation tends to get lost among the depth contour lines.

[thinkxingu]

I just follow the safe passage lines that go between all the markers on my Garmin. Perfect!

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[DPatnaude]

That chart doesn't look good. Much prefer the c-map chip that I think was based off of Bizer's chart. On a Standard Horizon chart plotter.

[winni83]

And this is a screen shot of the same area on the Navonics chart on my I Phone. Much easier to visualize and navigate.

[Downeast]

To Garmin, Winnipesaukee is merely a pond in the woods.

I will be shocked if they, formerly Navionics, releases an update before the end of the year, after all, it's only been 9 months since the first CER was submitted lol

[Broken Glass]

I have had the same issue with my Garmin 8612xsv Unit. The display (three years old) came with Blue Chart g3+LakeVug3 Built-in. The map was fine the first year I had it but after an update all of the black and red went to a pencil thin outline, and some markers are missing all together. My subscription expired, and while I was looking into renewing the subscription, I came across another chart available to download and install instead. The renew subscription cost was $99.99, verses the cost of the new chart which was $149.99. I purchased the new chart and the markers are Black and Red as they should be. The new chart is [B]Canada, Alaska, & Great Lakes-Lakes, Rivers and Coastal Marine….Garmin Navionics+ (NSUSOO4R).

I downloaded the new chart using Garmin Active Captain app. It’s an option if you don’t want to wait until Garmin fixes the bad chart, which may be never.

I did however notify Garmin per the recommendation of the previous post.

[Rich]

Thanks for the tip! I may check it out.

I see they have a US East, I wonder why you chose the one that includes Canada and less of the US East coast?

Do you know when this chart was last updated?

I wonder if they publish an update if it will switch to the new style which has the problem?

Can I ask where are you are located on the lake, perhaps I can stop by to see your chart myself?

[Rich]

I spoke with Garmin Support today about this. After some discussion, I was able to get them to offer me a 20% discount on a new chart, considering that I've been waiting over a year for them to update the built in chart. They said if the new chart wouldn't work for me, I could ask for a refund (I assume they would disable the chart if I had a refund).

So I decided to try the NSUS001L chart. This covers the entire US & Coastal Canada - Plus US Inland Lakes, Rivers and US Coast. It's only a bit more money (but not with the discount), and has more useful information for me, as I'm not sure if I'd ever be boating on the inland Canada waterways.

For some reason he recommended the SD card version vs the download version. I'll report back after I receive it on how I like it. It will be nice having the entire US available, as at the moment I use this on my SeaDoo. If it works, perhaps I'll update my chartplotter on my boat also.

I'm a bit disappointed in that Garmin is not actively updating the built in G3 chart, especially with something as important as NavAid visibility! It's been over a year since my first problem report on this. They keep saying "it's coming" but who knows if it will ever arrive?!

[Rich]

I'm only two days into using the new Navionics+ chart on my Garmin, but it seems to be a definate improvment over the Garmin G3 LakeVu chart!!

See the attached photo, you can see all the black-top and red-top navaids. They all seem to be there! If anyone wants to see a closer look at a certain part of the lake, let me know and I can try to post a screen shot.

I'm guessing that Garmin will phase out their G3 charts. If you look at their new chartplotter displays on their website, you will notice that the newer versions come with Navionics+ instead of their Bluechart G3 charting.

I'm further guessing that they won't update the current G3 charts to 'fix' this issue, but won't admit it to us.

I chose to purchase the Navionics+ 'U.S. & Coastal Canada - Lakes, Rivers and Coastal Marine Charts' NSUS001L (currently $199 retail). This covers the entire USA, so if I ever bring my PWC anywhere in the USA I'm covered. There is a "USA East" NSUS007R that is less expensive version (currently $149 retail) that covers part of the east coast (including our lake) if you know you will never travel south of South Carolina, this or the previous mentioned chart may be an option for you. I understand that Garmin sometimes has these on sale at different times of the year (perhaps March?).

Summary: It looks like we need to purchase the Navionics+ chart to get usable Navaids for inland waters of NH. The Garmin G3 charts in their updated form are not useful for navigation because the visual indication for red-top vs black-top navaids are missing.

[tummyman]

Hi, purchased a new "used" Grady White this winter that came with a brand new Garmin EchoMap UHD 94SV. Unfortunately this device does not have the lakes chip and want to buy one. Went on the Garmin site and they list a LakeVu G3 Ultra chart with East lakes. However, I really want the red/black markers etc. Does anyone know if the latest updates might have fixed the problem???? They list this a LVUS106F. Could not even find a phone number for Garmin to call. UGH......... Any help would be appreciated, including a phone number for Garmin.

[Kennedymsrct5]

I purchased Garmin Echomap this past summer for my son. I have older version EchoMap, approx 5 yrs old that had red/black markers displayed. However lighted markers are white. With my son’s it is reversed. Lighted markers are colored but non lighted are white. I did email Garmin and they said an update is planned for first half this year. Email address below. They got back to me fairly quickly. As a side I would like a fix to my Echomap to show the lighted as colored also!
Email: help@navionics.com

[Rich]

As I mentioned in my post #21 above:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...7&postcount=21

The Navionics+ charts seem to fix the issue.

Don't buy the older G3 LakeVu charts (Unless someone can confirm that they updated and fixed the issues).

[root1]

Thank you, Rich, for your input.
I just purchased ($149) the Navionics+ of US East - Coast/Inland lakes. Like you have shown, the red/black spars are back!
Much appreciated!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by root1

Thank you, Rich, for your input.
I just purchased ($149) the Navionics+ of US East - Coast/Inland lakes. Like you have shown, the red/black spars are back!
Much appreciated!

You are very welcome! It's good to hear that this solved your issue also! Thanks for letting us know!

[Rich]

Winnipesaukee Garmin Users, yesterday I received an email from Garmin which informed me that the U.S LakeVu chart has been finally updated!

I honestly was surprised to hear this news from them. I thought that they stopped updating the G3 charts as all their new products seem to come with the Navionics charts now.

Yesterday I updated the built in G3 map of my EchoMap 73sv UHD. It certainly took some time to complete the process (a few hours), but it was successful!

The new map is "US LakeVu g3 Detail Map v25.0 v2024.0"

And YES! We the black-top and red-top navigational markers have returned! The chart seems usable again!

While I haven't been on the lake yet with it, I did pan around manually and see the colored markers have returned, no more empty white rectangles!

While I was at it. I also updated my firmware to the latest version (27.10)

So you no longer are forced to buy the Navionics chart to fix this issue.

If you have a unit that is still within the 'free chart update' period (I believe one year from the purchase date) I would suggest that you update the built in chart as soon as you can before you lose the ability to have a free update.

Alternatively, if your unit is missing the red-top and black-top navaid markers, perhaps you can plead your case with support that it's dangerous for use for navigating, and they may give you a free or discounted update?

Considering that I originally reported this issue to them about 2 years ago, support gave me a 'special case' free upgrade. I'm a bit disappointed that it took them so long to resolve this issue, but at least it's resolved now.

[rick35]

I purchased the Navionics+ charts last year after reading this thread. I went back and forth with Garmin and they told me they didn't have a Lakevu upgrade then. I just emailed them again and pleaded my case for a free upgrade since the original Lakevu didn't work and that the spar size on the Navionics+ software was too small. I mentioned that I didn't think I should have to pay a third time for a chart that works. We'll see how that goes.

[Rich]

Rick35,

Good luck and I hope they help you! Please let us know it turns out for you.

I didn't check the spar size on this map update vs the Navionics, but I'm happy that they updated it.

I know some people that weren't happy with the LakeVue issues, but they never logged a trouble ticket with Garmin. My guess is that Garmin will perhaps offer a discount but may not give the update for free?

I'd think a better argument would be that without the red-top and black-top information that their bad map is an unsafe navigational Hazzard and that they should give a free update to anyone in NH where this affects us ( I'm guessing that we're the only users that would notice the defect).

[rick35]

I used the Navionics app on my iPhone occasionally and what I like about it is that you can change the size of the markers. I don't like that it doesn't have a night mode. I'm planning on getting the boat out of storage this week and will update the Navionics+ maps. Hopefully the markers are larger because even though they're colored they're still hard to see. Garmin was pretty good about responding to my emails before. Hopefully I'll hear from someone when they're back in the office.

[tummyman]

Please keep us posted. I need to get the chip but am hanging back until I hear all your input. One question...do you know if you can adjust/reduce the water level contours...I was hoping to not have to see that level of detail all the time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Please keep us posted. I need to get the chip but am hanging back until I hear all your input. One question...do you know if you can adjust/reduce the water level contours...I was hoping to not have to see that level of detail all the time.

On my EchoMap 73sv UHD, I can change the level of detail on the map through a few different levels from "Least", "Less", "Normal", "More" and "Most".

This tends to change the number of water contour lines.

I sure wish it had a feature like my older C80 RayMarine where I can press one button "reduce clutter", which would remove most all depth contours and only leave the navigational information. For normal navigation, I'd like full details. but pretty much NO depth contours. Perhaps leave depth shading at a depth which I choose (perhaps 10 ft) to let me know when I'm approaching a shallow area.

The reason why I don't want to set the level of detail to "Least", is that in addition to setting the minimum number of depth contours displayed (at least when you zoom out), it also removes/hides other information, such as the name of Islands and other things that I can't remember at the moment.

There also is a setting for Navaid size, which I have set to "Largest", they allow "Smaller, Normal, Larger, Largest", but to me, even largest seems a bit small.

If I could have a setting to remove all Depth contours (except the shallow shading mentioned above) but still have detail set to normal or high, then I'd have a perfect display. The problem is that at 'speed', the depth contours make seeing some spar buoys tougher as well as the 'preferred paths' that are on the charts.

Garmin does have three different chart displays, "Fishing" and "Navigation" and "Perspective 3D". I'd like to set Navigation chart to have minimum or no depth contours, and then I can use the Fishing chart when I want detailed depth contours, but I haven't found a way to do this.