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07-27-2023, 07:38 AM | #1 |
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Lost Our Loons
Having lots of spawning fish around our beach and dock area, we enjoyed mom, dad and baby loon fishing every afternoon. They showed up on time every day and provided us with lots of enjoyment and cool pictures.
But on July 2nd or 3rd our neighbor informed us that the Loon Center was sending a biologist to tag the female loon at night. The male had apparently been tagged and this was to take place around 10;30. We have not seen or heard a loon since so its pretty obvious that they were distressed. I emailed the Loon Center for an explanation and did not receive a reply |
07-27-2023, 09:09 AM | #2 |
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Lost our Loons
I'm sorry. Loons are a great source of pleasure to many people living around the Lake, and to others who happen to see one while visiting. That sounds like strange behavior by the Loon Center. I hope they answer you with an explanation.
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07-27-2023, 10:20 AM | #3 |
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This is troubling behavior from the Loon Center.... a pair with a baby shouldn't be touched, for many reasons.... While I understand the desire to tag loons to monitor aspects of their life, it isn't something that is really needed or important.
I hope the loon center provides an explanation..... but at the end of the day there isn't one..... just another example of good intentions going to far....
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07-27-2023, 10:27 AM | #4 |
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We’ve seen ? the same pair of loons for many years…but yesterday was the first time we’ve ever seen a chick. Very exciting.
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07-27-2023, 10:48 AM | #5 |
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Yes it is, my wife and I spend a good part of our time watching loons from a distance.... flight training can be especially interesting.....
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07-27-2023, 11:07 AM | #6 | |
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Everything I know about TLC is good stuff, but it would definitely be nice to get an answer. Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-27-2023, 11:53 AM | #7 | |
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Its not just the Loon Conservatory that does this, you see it all the time.....at the end of the day its just not a good thing..... Now if you can tag the animal with out capturing it they way they do whales and sharks then it is another story.....
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07-27-2023, 12:15 PM | #8 | |
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There is not enough info in the OP to know if anything is amiss and, like I said, I'll assume the best about TLC until I hear otherwise. Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-27-2023, 01:07 PM | #9 | |
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If you think I am against the TLC well then your dead wrong.... I have and do feed them information when prudent based on the discoveries my wife and I find well observing loons all over the lake.... Just because I support them doesn't mean I have to agree with all of their practices....
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07-27-2023, 01:50 PM | #10 | |
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My only point was that the OP hasn't got an official answer or explanation and that I think TLC has done enough good to wait out the answer or assume the best. I would do the same if someone posted a question or complaint about any other good organization/restaurant/business. Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-27-2023, 05:03 PM | #11 | |
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Not sure how much more info is needed. Bottom line is that the family has not been seen since. Loon was banded by boat at 10:30 pm after notifying neighbors. |
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07-28-2023, 05:09 AM | #12 | |
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They must have a reason for the timing, banding, etc. right? They work with multiple organizations and have been around a long time (according to their website, have been banding since the 90's) and I've heard/read almost nothing negative about the organization or their practices. Edited to add: every article I could find about banding loons identifies the best timing as ~10-12 PM and that the best results are with families because they dive more. Sounds like the LCT is right on: https://www.republicaneagle.com/news...2ed007396.html https://vtecostudies.org/blog/banding-loons-by-night/ https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2...servation.html https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/midnight-banders.htm Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-28-2023, 06:42 AM | #13 |
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They banded a couple of pairs here and they did it at night. We actually heard the loons screaming once. Obviously they don't like it.
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07-28-2023, 08:59 AM | #14 |
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Yes the banding is always done at night, because that is when they have the best chance at being able to capture them..... Yes they have been doing this since the 1990's..... Don't get me wrong, I think that the LTC does everything correctly.
My statement over banding or placing tracking collars on animals of any type is the same. I don't like the practice, as humans we are interfering where we shouldn't..... The human race is all up in arms because with cell phones, RFID, and other assorted devices, we can be tracked..... but yet we force it on animals.... Anyways enough of my soapbox..... In other news, we saw a family of four swim by last night, and a congregation of loons this morning (it look like there where about 10 that came together for a short period of time....)
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Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island..... Last edited by LIforrelaxin; 07-28-2023 at 09:24 AM. Reason: grammer |
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07-28-2023, 09:17 AM | #15 | |
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Great thread! This is the kind of debate we should be having |
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07-28-2023, 09:55 AM | #16 | |
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The only reason Sam—we—have loons to discuss is the result of direct action. Read those articles—what they've discovered about loons as a result of banding/tracking is pretty big. Side note/addendum: my new puppy had a thermometer stuck up her butt yesterday and some hair pulled out of her ear canals. She didn't love either, but one will keep her ears from infections and the other discovered giardia—both of which could make her life much more unpleasant/short if left untreated. Sometimes interference is essential. Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-28-2023, 05:56 PM | #17 | |
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07-28-2023, 06:37 PM | #18 |
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07-29-2023, 07:34 AM | #19 | |
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I've been on on the same bay since the 70's and the loon population was more robust in previous years. I read the links and found them disturbing. They net them at night with flashlights, wrap them in towels, take a blood sample, feather sample and band them before releasing. That is traumatic to any bird or animal. |
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07-29-2023, 08:09 AM | #20 | |
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And, yes, nobody likes to invade nature, but—in my estimation at least—species survival > small-scale trauma. We clearly disagree on this—I have faith in those who serve to protect our wildlife populations and, especially, those populations that are endangered by human activity. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Ut6_uHKerYdGLo Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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07-29-2023, 09:13 AM | #21 |
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Defending the LPC
The loon center will no doubt provide their side of the story and I'm sure it is a good one. From what I've learned from LPC, the only way to tag the adults is to do it while they are protecting the chicks at night. Otherwise, they can't be captured. Non-breeding loons are not tagged. The tagging allows the scientists to record which territory a loon nests on, when they move and how many chicks each tagged loon produces. It would be a rare event for the adults to abandon their chicks after the banding process. While no doubt traumatizing, exhibited by the loon defecation that the intern holding the loon experiences, loons stick around and often don't mind being near humans.
Since artificial nests are a primary source of loon chicks in NH, the tagging goes along with the preservation of the species. Without the Loon Center, breeding would occur more to the north and we'd have fewer loons in NH. With the recovery of the eagle population, it is even more important that humans help to protect loon's reproduction cycle, because eagles attack loon chicks. Humans are responsible for much stress on the species, especially with shoreline development, water level changes and boat wake, so it is only right that humans help preserve them.
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07-31-2023, 08:23 AM | #22 |
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So this is discussion is very good in my eyes... we all have view points as different as they maybe. While I have said my piece about the banding... Lets talk about some of the initiative that the TLC has done that have most certainly been effective in helping to restore the loon population:
1- working to create protected sanctuary locations to promote loon breeding in the wild 2 - the very successful floating nests that they have located around the lake, specifically adjacent to some of the sanctuaries. 3 - working to get rid of Lead fishing weights 4 - rescuing and rehabilitating loons in distress. How much have these initiatives help bring back the loon population, that is hard to tell.... but they have had an impact.
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07-27-2023, 10:18 AM | #23 |
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Loons are in different places this year. Just outside Hanson Cove are two nests with at least 3 babies—right at the channel coming out of the outer basin. We've never seen them anywhere near there before, so maybe the Loon Center is tracking anomalies?
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08-01-2023, 06:19 PM | #24 |
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Thanks, LPC—great information. And thanks for all you do on behalf of our loon community—they're very special birds and make being on the lake that much better!
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08-01-2023, 06:26 PM | #25 |
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Over here on Winnisquam we also have quite a noisy pair with two chicks
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08-02-2023, 04:29 AM | #26 |
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We're Not Supposed to Have Golden Eagles Here...
Over here at Winter Harbor, we have just one. He keeps to himself except to announce a Bald Eagle warning: a short "ah-OO!"
(Usually when our resident Bald Eagle juvenile coasts by). I think he's a Bald Eagle juvenile. He's VERY large! The same warning also greets ultralight aircraft. |
08-02-2023, 04:54 AM | #27 | |
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08-28-2023, 05:28 PM | #28 | |
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Golden Eagle?
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(Golden eagles are similar to, but heavier, than Bald Eagles). |
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08-02-2023, 08:41 AM | #29 |
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08-07-2023, 11:25 AM | #30 |
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SamIAm, thank you for the extra details regarding where you are, and my apologies for assuming you were on Winnipesaukee.
There were two loon pairs that hatched chicks on Winnisquam this year—the pair at the far north end (the Sanctuary), which hatched 1 chick, and the pair that hangs around the 3 Sisters, which hatched 2 chicks. We did go out on the 3rd of July and captured and banded the female at the far north end. Interestingly, the place on the lake where we found and caught the loons was much further south then where they usually brood, which may help to explain why you stopped seeing them around your place at that time. We always follow up on the families the day after banding, and the family was together and looking just fine on the 4th. About a week later (around July 9th), the chick did disappear, with credible reports from observers that an eagle had taken it. Each year, at least a few loon chicks are predated by eagles, and at nearly a week after the banding, it is unlikely that any residual stress from banding would have played into this turn of events. I'm sorry to have to confirm that the chick is no longer around. We are glad to answer any follow-up questions. |
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08-07-2023, 12:06 PM | #31 |
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North End Loons
I believe that pair on the north end of Winnisquam lost their chick on 7/4 to an eagle. The parents were screaming all day and night searching for it. Hopefully I am wrong but we haven't seen the chick since, just seen the other loon family by 3 islands.
oops, edited for timing, looks like the previous post confirmed my suspicions, so sad. |
08-08-2023, 08:27 AM | #32 | |
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08-08-2023, 02:10 PM | #33 |
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Unfortunately, it's not just the eagles. We had one chick hatch on Merrymeeting this summer. It lasted about a week before, as near as LPC can determine, dying from a spear wound to the chest. Most likely from an invading loon looking to take over the territory. Unfortunately, these territorial battles are sometimes fatal for both adults and chicks.
As my wife often comments, "Don't they know they are endangered?!!" |
08-07-2023, 12:21 PM | #34 |
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These are the saddest posts ever.
LPC: can you tell us how many loon chicks are hatched each year and how many/what percent typically survive? Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
08-07-2023, 01:30 PM | #35 |
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I dunno...I'd say run over by a jetski or poisoned by lead fishing gear would be the saddest. Eaten by an eagle is more circle of life. Remember that we're lucky to have eagles back from the brink from DDT
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08-07-2023, 01:44 PM | #36 | |
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Second: I still think it's super sad to think about a tiny little fluffy buddy being picked off by a big 'ol mean angry bird. Circle of life or not. Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk |
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08-07-2023, 02:47 PM | #37 |
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Be it because of the circle of life, or because of a boating accident.... loon chick dying isn't a fun event. But hey it is nature. Several years ago, we watched as a nest was destroyed by wave action, on a beach.... we went by the 1st time we saw the egg and what looked like the parents trading places..... The second time we went by the egg was not visible and both parents where out in the water, making some horrific sounding calls.....very sorrowful ......
LPC, you do wonderful work, I am big enough to admit that we can agree to disagree on banding.... My wife was elated this year to watch the loon cam, and see the two chicks hatch..... and then venture from the nest.... I wasn't sure I was ever going to get her away from the screen..... It was also nice to have two successful nests this year between LI and Moultonborough Neck.....
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08-07-2023, 03:27 PM | #38 |
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