Boat Sinking?????
 

I read a small piece in the local paper this morning (The Eagle Tribune, out of North Andover MA) that a boat out of Windham, NH completely sank on lake Winni yesterday. 8 people on board, all survived, no injuries reported. Few details, other than to say the boat was a Cobalt and was "a good size bow rider", incident occured at approx. 11:30 AM, and was caused by a swell that filled the bow, and the boat contined to take on water. Story goes on to say the boat came to rest in 100 feet of water and was being recovered today...

Wondering if anyone witnessed this event and has more details...
Was the lake THAT ROUGH yesterday??? I was up on Thursday, and cruised from Paugus Bay to Wolfeboro and never saw so much as a single swell of any size....smooth the whole way.

It was breezy....
 

Came back from breakfast and food shopping in Wolfeboro around that time and saw two small sailboats capsized within a 1/4 mile of each other -- one already had a jetski and another boat assisting. The other was over near Parker Island. We stopped by him to see if he wanted assistance but he didn't.

There were 3 ft rollers out there, but I wouldn't call the conditions extreme by any means. Been in much worse on the Broads. Does require some patience and experience to manage those conditions. Glad no one was hurt.

The same story was in the Citizen today...

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...043/-1/CITIZEN

Winds at Black Cat yesterday were averaging 6 mph gusting to 15 mph at the time, which was the windiest observation of the day. The wind direction was from the Northwest, blowing down the lake toward Rattlesnake where it occurred, so it's safe to assume the wind could have doubled in speed over open water by the time it got there. Wave heights here were about 1-1.5 feet, with whitecaps. Again, they would've gained some height by the time they got down to Rattlesnake.

They were lucky the hot and humid weather came back long enough to raise up the water temp back to the mid-70s. In the cold spell of last month it dropped into the upper 60s.

Wind being blown over the surface of water (from Black Cat to Rattlesnake) will NOT speed up over a long distance.

According to iwindsurf.com, the wind at 11am Satruday in Laconia averaged 13mph with puffs (gusts) to 26mph out of the WSW. Those kinds of winds can produce occasional 3-5 foot waves (with whitecaps).

Since one poster witnessed two boats capsized at the same time*, it should be safe to assume that the wind was very gusty. When the wind is gusty, the waves created by those gusts are much closer together (more dangerous).
Although not the most pleasant ride, a 20+ footer should be able to survive those conditions. Obviously, this Cobalt wasn't.

There were also 8 people in the boat. Depending on the size, it may have been close to being overloaded.

I don't have an opinion yet, but I bet the final verdict will be inexperience for the conditions by the skipper of the boat.

APS, were you out sailing on Saturday? Perhaps you would know what the conditions were like?

*On a side note, if anyone sees a small boat capsized (~15 feet), they most likely know exactly what they are doing, and you should STAY AWAY at least 50 feet in all directions unless they are making it obvious that they need help. Too many stories of ripped sails and props tangled up in rigging.

Remember, its Labor Day Weekend, everyone leaves their common sense at home :laugh:

I wonder if there were alot of passengers in the seats located in the bow of this bowrider. It always make me concerned to see the bow on bowridera loaded up with passengers, as I think it would be easy to dunk the bow when overloaded. Overloaded in the bow plus good sized swells = trouble.

I also thought all boats built after 1971 were required to contain flotation enough to keep them from going to the bottom. :eek:

Bowrider
 

Hi All,
If anyone has info on whether or the boat has actually been located please post for me here on the Forum or send me an email-I'd be interested in scannng for it-also info on its whereabouts of course; Rattlesnake is huge and after the side-scan work I did last year off Rattlesnake looking for Fred Surrette I know exactly how deep it can be around there;

The Eagle Tribune reports "...the Bowrider was being pulled to the surface to make sure the accident wasn't caused by a structural problem..."; They called it a Cobalt;

We went up on the Broad's side of Rattlesnake today around 11AM or so. Saw a couple of Sea Tow boats near the Eastern tip. Maybe that's where it went down?

We were also out for a bit yesterday though not near that area. We anchored behind Timber Island for a couple hours and found the ride back to the Weirs very choppy from the wind.

NHskier

My feeling
 

I can't imagine there wasn't a structural problem.... Boats are designed.... or a least used to be designed with enough flotation so that even full of water they would not completely sink. Kind of a safty feature.... now if there is a breach in the hull and water gets into what is supposed a dry cavity then you have a problem.....

Have Boat designers abandoned the principles of old?

Now knowing how deep the water is over by Rattlesnake I can't imagine recovery is going to be a simple task......

Cobalt Boats doesn't exactly make poor quality boats. Also, I believe an above poster is right: even full of water, the hull would still have enough positive buoyancy to stay at or just below the surface. I hadn't thought of that.

Maybe it was a case of attempted insurance fraud? It IS one of the deepest parts of the lake....;)

I'll set the record straight
 

Winnipesaukee...You're an **** and I expect a full written apology for your stupid and inconsiderate words.

I was on that boat with the other family. If you think we'd risk our kid's and wive's lives for the insurance, you're even stupider than most of your posts. The boat was a 6 hour old Cobalt 246. (A leftover from Thurstons) and it was definately an issue with the boat. It is rated for 15 people. The 4 kids weigh around 100 lbs or less.

The boat suffered a catostrophic failure (of the hull, something not tightened or something, We'll only know when it is recovered). I've logged 200 hours in the past three years on Winnipesaukee and while the waves weren't calm, I've seen worse.

Someday, I'll write the full story of what happened and how some kind people came to our aid. The comments made by a few idiots in this forum made me too angry to do that at this time.

Note: If your Cobalt fills with water, it may sink fast just like this one did. As the skipper's daughter said....just like the Titanic.

On positive buoyancy.....Government regulations and Cobalt only provide positive buoyancy up to 21 feet. (So says Thurston's staff when we asked them at the urging of Marine Patrol)

Laconia and anywhere on the lake's NW-SE runway that is the longest, straightest part of the MOUNT's route experience very different weather at times. This can include large discrepancies in wind speed and direction as well as temperature. It can be a different world out here. (see thread called "I've never seen the lake like this.")

To illustrate this, last week there was a day when the wind howled straight up the lake all afternoon - from Rattlesnake to Black Cat - with 3 foot waves crashing up on the shore as I watched. The wind here was 18 mph gusting to 26, and at the same time the wind was not more than 7 mph at Laconia or Plymouth... on Mount Washington's summit the wind was just 3 mph at the time. If I wasn't physically here I might've thought my instruments were misreading. However, considering that I was watching my stuff starting to blow off the dock and a few leafy twigs fly past the kitchen window, I would say probably not. Just to be sure I checked those other stations again - they were all current, all reporting light winds.

Local topography has a huge effect on weather, including the bending of wind direction to its liking. It's one of the reasons the computer models have such a hard time with New England's weather - so many dominant wind directions, so much topography, not enough disk space for numbers to accurately represent it all.

Open water may not speed wind up - trees and dirt and mountains slow wind down. From here to Rattlesnake is 10 miles, straight shot. For an inland area, that's a long way for wind to go without hitting any obstructions.

I expect a written apology for your blatant disrespect on this public, family forum and will be writing the Webmaster regarding your outburst. My comment was semi-sarcastic, as we on this forum know niether many of the facts, nor who it was who sunk the boat, and our comments were just based on the little information we had.

Under other circumstances, I'd write my opinion on how a new boat should never experience a "catastrophic failure," and that it is the responsibility of the skipper to inspect his boat before shoving off, but feel that would enrage you further, so I digress.

Enough of that.

Canis, regarding the wind, you are absolutely right. Winds can be very different on different parts of the lake because of the topography. A fine example of this is a section of the Columbia River called "The Gorge." It has canyon walls on both sides, and commonly, the pressure on each side is different, creating wind, which is channeled between the rocks. So if you are standing on the top of the canyon, the wind might only be 10 knots, but at the bottom on the water it might be 30. The sailing is amazing there.

Wind is a very tricky thing. I don't know where your wind meter is set up, but on many, there may be errors due to wind shadows (if you house is east of the meter and the wind happens to be coming from the east, the house may block the wind from the meter.) The general rule of thumb is if something is blocking wind, a meter must be 4 object-heights away from it to get "clean air." So if a house is 10 feet tall, the meter must be 40 feet away.

Okay. Enough wind talk. :rolleye2:

If you were 10% as knowledgeable as you think, you would be aware of this article.

Knowing that four children were involved and making your comment would definitely make you the south end of a north bound horse.

The answer to a new boat should never experience a "catastrophic failure" is a good law firm.

"Wow" this has gotten sort of ugly. I don't mean to touch any nerves here, but could it be possible (as I have seen what I am about to suggest first hand) that someone forgot to "tighten" the drain plug before launching? I know it sounds like boating 101, but mistakes can and do happen.

edit: nevermind. Incorrect math.

Whatever the reason, there is now up to 70 gallons of gasoline in the Lake...

The "Extreme Boat" websites all urge that Internet disclosures of boating incidents—such as yours—shouldn't be made. Websites are checked by insurance company lawyers for consistency in witness' testimony.

It's good advice, IMHO. :cool:

The wind was too blustery to risk a capsize on a weekend.

I watched cruising sailboats twice my boat's size turn around and go home. My good buddy across the harbor sailed up to my dock—didn't attempt to stop—and scooted back home in his oceanworthy ~24-foot Cape Dory Typhoon.

Like most lakes, the winds were just too inconsistent: as CLA states, topography rules on lakes.

Sometimes I miss the smooth consistency of ocean breezes, but at least lakeside, I can "pick my days" for an enjoyable sailing day. :)

boat guy 64,
Glad you and your family are OK. I am not sure I would have been clear headed enough to make my response g rated as you did. When a brand new boat has a catastrophic failure, I have to bet on the probability it was not something the new owners did wrong. It will be interesting to see what went so terribly wrong.

Again. First and foremost we are glad everyone is OK.

I second this post!
 

First and foremost we should all be glad everyone is OK.

RG is correct... let the experts figure out the reason.. while we all celebrate the fact that all are safe. Cudos to the folks that stopped and helped.. :cheers:

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...043/-1/CITIZEN

So is that what we saw yesterday red buoys and two boats? At first we thought it had to do with the sailboat race, then thought someone must be diving as the tow boat had a diver's flag on it. It is so deep there, I wonder if they will find it?

wow!
 

As the starter of this thread, I never thought we would actually hear from someone who was in the boat.
Boat guy64...that must of been a terrible thing to experience. As a new boater (4 years) I can't begin to imagine what it would be like at the moment you realize the boat is taking on water. Tragic. Glad everyone is OK.
"Winnipasaukee"...I gotta say, I think you are an ***hole. INSURANCE FRAUD????!!!!! With 8 people on board, including children? And not knowing all the facts? I found your first posting odd as well...something about "overloaded". At that point, noone knew the size of the boat. We did know, however, that all eight people had quick access to their life vest. That should have been a clue that the captain had a good sense of responsibility. You actually wrote "I bet the final verdict will have something to do with inexperience by the skipper...." How dare you? Gather the facts first...as I tried to do when I started the thread. You are a jerk!
Lastly, you write..."whatever he case, there is now 70 gallons of gas in the lake" decent point, but how about wishing well to the 2 families who were on the boat. By the way, an apology is certainly due from you.
People could have died thru no fault of their own...

Cobalt Sinking
 

This was the view yesterday off Rattlesnake Is. of the search for the sunk Cobalt. I am very glad everyone survived and I thank the boater(s) who came to the peoples rescue. I am waiting to hear what caused the sinking.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...ff_RS_Is_1.jpg

Good advice
 

Acres,

Good advice. I'll take it. Everyone is safe and that is all that matters. Everything else is trivial.

boat_guy64

Floatation
 

As a point of information, the Coast Guard, whose responsibilty it is to set standards by which boats are built, does not specify any flotation requirements boats twenty feet in length or longer.

I am not saying none will, but it would be a risky assumption for anyone in a boat twenty feet long or longer to assume that the boat will remain afloat as it will, most likely, not.

Our part time marine patrol officers should be aware of this fact.

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/bo...on/183-101.htm

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/bo...on/183-201.htm

boat_guy64:

As someone who just purchased a new Cobalt 232 from Thurstons about a month ago, I'd be interested in their reaction and how they're helping or not helping in this situation.

I got the full "when you buy from us, your part of our family" story from Thurstons along with the "You pay more because Cobalt is the best made boat on the water today" sales pitch. Now I'm starting to wonder...

We watched the boat sink (from our place on Rattlesnake Island) in what couldn't have been more that 10 seconds. It was incredible how fast it went under -- and reinforces how little time you have when something like that happens.

Glad you and all involved are safe and sound.

Scary
 

I can not even imagine the terror that the kids must have felt let alone the parents. I am so glad and relieved to hear that everyone is ok. So to throw salt in the wound "Winnipesaukee" claims you were at fault for not inspecting the boat beforehand?????? Wow what a nerve. Next time any of you all go boating you should have the boat lifted for full hull inspection:laugh: Imagine the lines at the marinas????

I am sure I am not alone in awaiting the results of the investigation and what Thurston's/Cobalt does to "make it right."

I would bet on a failure in the drive booting rather than the hull. Cobalt is a tough boat.

Look...
 

I didn't mean for my comment to offend anyone. That was not my intention, and if it did, it came out wrong and I take it back. And I am, of course, glad that everyone is alright. I didn't really expect that one of the people who sunk the boat would sign on and explain the situation. I am not happy with, however, the disgusting language used on this thread. It is highly offensive. Also, I guess the Webmaster doesn't accept PMs, so I don't exactly know how to get in contact with him...

With that being said, I do believe it is indeed the skipper's responsibility to inspect his boat prior to shoving off, especially on its maiden voyage (caveat emptor). It is one of the fundamental rules of seamanship and am sticking with it. Feel free to disagree.

I don't think I'll be posting anymore on this issue until we see some sort of definitive investigation report.

Accident
 

boat guy 64: I am happy that all made it through this very unfortunate experience. The adults on board had to be doing the right things to keep the children safe.

winnipesaukee: My opinion is that you are the person that should be rethinking your posting style. Without any facts or direct knowledge, you find blame. Wow!

Thank GOD all are safe.

R2B

or perhaps...
 

Maybe, the webmaster agrees with us????????

His rules do not.
 

His rules do not.

Courtesy and Respect
 

"Overloaded the boat" "Inexperience by the skipper" "Insurance fraud"
I'm curious...which of these three are "courtesy" and which are "respect"?

Thank Goodness
 

Boat_Guy64, I can't imagine what the feeling must have been like out there having the boat sink. But I am glad that everyone is ok. And I hope you are all able to get back on the water and enjoy it soon.....And if anyone of the rescuers are out there.... thank for you efforts in keeping both families safe.

To Boat_guy64 and others who posted the further information on positive floatation, thank you... it was very informative.... I never stopped to think that there might be a size limitation on that. Although after and incident like this I wonder if it is something that needs to be readdressed buy the coast guard and boat manufactures....

Winnipesaukee... like others I was not humored by your remarks.... your original remarks where bad enough..... but adding insult to injury by then bringing up things like the gasoline that is now in the lake... Come on man.... the fuel will disipate and take care of itself.... the important thing is the people because the people can't be replaced......

Like everyone else I will be keep tabs on this I am curious as to what happened to the boat.... And Boat_guy64 if your able to share more with us that would be great.... but don't feel as though you need to you and your family have been through enough.......

Cobalt sinking
 

I purchased a 25 foot Cobalt with a cuddy cabin over ten years ago. After purchasing the boat, I remember seeing a video of a Boston Whaler that remained floating after an accident due to the amount of floatation build into the boat.

I became curious and called the Cobalt factory and asked them about any build in floatation and what would happen if an accident seriously breached the hull in my boat.

A very sobering answer was given. The boat would sink.

I would prefer that the Lake not be represented by the south end of a north bound horse.

Also, try being proficient in apologizing.

Humm... seems like you really mean... "I assumed that noone was going to be able to provide the facts from an eyewitness point of view." I'm sure you know the old adage about ASSUME... ( I won't go into the meaning so as not to offend anyone..):)

I took the time to look over your previous posts... and you seem like a good guy.. rather than trying to justify your comments with a complaint about the webmaster or the words used by boatguy64.. maybe you should be sure you know what's really going on before you post. Just advice from an old guy... take it or leave it.:)

Relax... this is fun group... and a group that pulls together when something bad happens in the place we all love. Plenty of time for the "experts" to figure out what happened... your not one of the experts, neither am I... so show support and celebrate the fact that 4 kids and 4 adults are still with us today.

Give credit to Boatguy for having the equiptment onboard that saved those people..

PS I send this with full knowledge that "Free Advice is usually worth what you pay for it! " :) :)

Example of the Lake on Saturday
 

My wife and I were out on the Sea Que Saturday. Around 11:45AM I turned on the VHF and scanner I heard the tail end of "something" off of Rattlesnake. Now I know what it was. We were out in an area bounded by Welch Island, Diamond I and Sandy Island starting around noon. The waves were wind driven and it was pretty choppy. Around 1:30 we headed to the Weirs and saw a fair number of boats on the way. Near the tip of Gov I near Weirs Bay we noted these fishermen in the low boat and tried to get a picture to show the size of the waves vs their boat.


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...ium/Waves1.JPG

Large version of this shot

Off to their right (out of this shot) was a boat pulling a tube. :)

Very glad that no one was hurt in the sinking by Rattlesnake.

Great sailing weather.

I'm glad no one was hurt. One big reason is that they all had life jackets.

When there's steady wind from anywhere near north, the wind comes down the broads and builds up some serious waves between Parker and Rattlesnake. I've made that crossing in bow rider before and it can be very scary. One wave a little bigger than you expect can make life interesting. Now add any kind of a mechanical problem on top of that, and things can get real bad in a hurry.

I've had bad weather and I've had mechnical problems, luckily I never had both at the same time.

Zillions of boats
 

I was coming from Wolfboro to circle Rattlesnake around 2:00pm yesterday, and while the water was rough, it certainly wasn't as bad as I'd seen before. I didn't really think the wind was bad. But, what caught my attention was the number of boats on the water. I don't believe I have ever seen so many boats, especially big cruisers, on the water before at the same time. Incredible. I attributed most of the wave action to that.