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Old 04-25-2020, 10:32 PM   #1
Dad207
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Default Coming to Town during Corona?

I own a home in Alton, but live in Baltimore, we usually come to town once twice a month during the off season, and then for several weeks during the summer. Most eastern seaboard resorts (Ocean City NJ, Avalon, Ocean City MD) are posting "stay away" information. What is the mood in the Lakes Region?? Outsiders stay away, or come here and get the house ready for the season (Go to the local hardware store, not Lowes, shop at Hannaford). Don't want to be chased out of town.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:37 PM   #2
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Default Hi Dad

Sent you a message.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:42 PM   #3
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The Governor has asked people coming to NH to self isolate for 2 weeks. Our family is following that policy, and I think you should too
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:43 PM   #4
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If youíre coming from out of state, you should quarantine for 14 days. That means bringing everything youíll need for 14 days and staying at your NH home for that time period.


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Old 04-25-2020, 11:16 PM   #5
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Actually it is quite simple:

Stay away but send us your money anyway!

Depending on your method of travel you may expose yourself to the virus on the way up.

Let's hope things get better soon!
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Old 04-26-2020, 12:25 AM   #6
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During this pandemic, what becomes quite apparent in this society is that people have no respect for the fact that they are a member of a society. Is it really that invasive to don a mask and respect social distancing during this period of time? Really, what does it cost you?


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Old 04-26-2020, 07:02 AM   #7
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Yesterday was a beautiful day. Lots and lots of motorcyclists frequenting our restaurants, e.g, Lakeside, Tamarac. Boats on the lake. Other than seeing a few people wearing masks you wouldnít realize that anything is different.

Come on up, enjoy the lake. I have a feeling things will be back to normal very soon.


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Old 04-26-2020, 07:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Major View Post
Yesterday was a beautiful day. Lots and lots of motorcyclists frequenting our restaurants, e.g, Lakeside, Tamarac. Boats on the lake. Other than seeing a few people wearing masks you wouldnít realize that anything is different.

Come on up, enjoy the lake. I have a feeling things will be back to normal very soon.


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Meredith town docks were jammedólooked no different than a regular spring day other than people clearly keeping distance.

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Old 04-26-2020, 08:04 AM   #9
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Seasonal residents have every right to enjoy their own property.
At risk people should take extra precautions but there is no reason that we should not be able to go back to work and enjoy life as long as strict sanitary precautions
are followed.
I've seen several FB posts calling people greedy and selfish that want to gradually end the shut down but I would guess that these are people who are probably not effected financially.
I'll probably get blasted but millions of lives are in the process of being ruined
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Seasonal residents have every right to enjoy their own property.
At risk people should take extra precautions but there is no reason that we should not be able to go back to work and enjoy life as long as strict sanitary precautions
are followed.
I've seen several FB posts calling people greedy and selfish that want to gradually end the shut down but I would guess that these are people who are probably not effected financially.
I'll probably get blasted but millions of lives are in the process of being ruined
Youíre 100% correct. And as I said a couple of weeks ago, all these politicians that are imposing these shutdowns & lockdowns are all still getting their paychecks and benefits (funded by the same taxpayers they they are squeezing). Itís ok for them to break everyone else as they and their families maintain financial security. Something is seriously wrong with this system.
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:29 AM   #11
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I've been wondering about the outlook of locals in NH as well. I received an email yesterday from Mills Falls with May - June specials. I like to spend a few days there 3-5 times a year and was wondering how I'd be viewed if I were to book a stay. Granted it'd be nearly 2 months from now if I book.
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:31 AM   #12
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It will end soon in the Lakes Region. The silent majority will demand it.

Anyone see the pictures of Mt Major!


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Old 04-26-2020, 04:51 PM   #13
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Default Did me you mean the joke?

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It will end soon in the Lakes Region. The silent majority will demand it.

Anyone see the pictures of Mt Major!


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You are right many more will be silent but not because of demands but because those that ignore the warning will die. Sad.
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #14
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It will end soon in the Lakes Region. The silent majority will demand it.

Anyone see the pictures of Mt Major!


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Thatís going to blow up the Facebook pages. Took a ride by at noon Saturday, had to be 300+ cars, ~ two thirds NH one third MA. Let the hating commence...
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:56 PM   #15
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It will end soon in the Lakes Region. The silent majority will demand it.

Anyone see the pictures of Mt Major!


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I agree with your statement. But, we must not remain silent. It is time for all of us to speak up. Enough is enough. Get out and enjoy the state we all love


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Old 04-26-2020, 07:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
I've been wondering about the outlook of locals in NH as well. I received an email yesterday from Mills Falls with May - June specials. I like to spend a few days there 3-5 times a year and was wondering how I'd be viewed if I were to book a stay. Granted it'd be nearly 2 months from now if I book.
You will need to stay tuned as to the State of Emergency in N.H. We are booked at the Center Harbor Inn starting May 14th while our flood- ravaged house is being repaired....BUT itís very possible that our plans will be derailed by an extension of the emergency, which might mean a delayed opening for motels. We are watching closely, and I would suggest that you do the same. We are sooooooo anxious to get back!
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:29 PM   #17
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Fewer masks this weekend than mid-week, and tons more people out and about. It’s starting to look like a silent return to something close to normalcy.
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:36 AM   #18
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I find it interesting that most true NH residents I know who are usually "live free or die" hards are the ones saying don't come here, this is our state blah blah... Pretty hypocritical to me. Reading posts that people are getting ridiculed for wearing masks etc, who gives a hoot. I caught a look in a store last week and didn't even bat an eye. My mindset, mind your own business and be courteous and respectul. If that means right now wearing a mask, keeping distance, cover coughs/sneezes (which should be done year round anyways) etc than ok that's what you should do for everyones sake. I look forward to after this in hopes people still stay 6 feet from each other, allow people to pass by each other in shopping lanes etc. If I can smell your gross BO, bad perfume or alcohol standing behind me than you are too close to me anyways whether its pre carona, mid carona or post carona.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:45 AM   #19
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Default Forest Service closes the white mountain national forest

http://www.fs.usda.gov/internet/FSE_...eprd729238.pfd

This very official looking "CLOSED" pfd poster style notice could become an historical poster as a way to view the 2020 C-19 for the next hundred years, or something.

On Saturday, April 25, the Noon Peak trails parking lot in Waterville Valley had so many parked cars with Massachusetts plates, there was like maybe 20 cars parked out along Route 49 since the p-lot was already, totally full.

Well you know the new huge billboard sized sign, just up the road there does sayeth "Welcome to Waterville Valley" (and bring your money, thank-you).
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:48 AM   #20
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Default How long for repairs?

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You will need to stay tuned as to the State of Emergency in N.H. We are booked at the Center Harbor Inn starting May 14th while our flood- ravaged house is being repaired....BUT it’s very possible that our plans will be derailed by an extension of the emergency, which might mean a delayed opening for motels. We are watching closely, and I would suggest that you do the same. We are sooooooo anxious to get back!
Sue, how long are repairs estimated to take? If this is covered by insurance, I believe loss of use is covered under your homeowner's policy.

If not, maybe compare the cost of renting at CHI vs renting a small RV that can be parked at your place. Just a thought.

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Old 04-27-2020, 08:56 AM   #21
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Thatís going to blow up the Facebook pages. Took a ride by at noon Saturday, had to be 300+ cars, ~ two thirds NH one third MA. Let the hating commence...
It most certainly did! (most certainly added for needed word count)
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:00 AM   #22
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Sue, how long are repairs estimated to take? If this is covered by insurance, I believe loss of use is covered under your homeowner's policy.

If not, maybe compare the cost of renting at CHI vs renting a small RV that can be parked at your place. Just a thought.

Dave
Thanks for your suggestion. Our insurance policy does cover living expenses, and we have been back twice to checking out progress. Right now, we’re waiting to see whether CHI will reopen soon or extend the closure. The house is getting there....we might be able to move back mid June. Making decisions long distance is scary, but we are hoping for the best re the end result. We appreciate your helpful suggestions.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:13 AM   #23
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You are right many more will be silent but not because of demands but because those that ignore the warning will die. Sad.
Oh, I forgot, catching the Chinese coronavirus is a proverbial death sentence. You catch it, you die, just like the flu and countless other viruses. Unless you have a preexisting condition, there is nothing to worry about!
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:42 AM   #24
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When I hear news stories about "x more Corona deaths" they often say "all were 60 or older."

It sounds like an age bracket.

If four people died who were aged 79,81,84 and 85, the above statement would be true but some what misleading.

It would be interesting to know the actual age of the deceased and their underlying conditions.

It seems that we have lost some who were not old.

While some of those younger people who died from the virus may have had underlying conditions, I believe some did not.

I hope that we can learn how a young, healthy person can be killed from this.

We also have much to learn from studying how some people can just shake it off and even a few older people can survive its ravages.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:43 AM   #25
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Oh, I forgot, catching the Chinese coronavirus is a proverbial death sentence. You catch it, you die, just like the flu and countless other viruses. Unless you have a preexisting condition, there is nothing to worry about!
I don't know about you but I don't want any virus and I will do what ever needs to be done to prevent me from getting it. I don't like being sick so I will take what ever precautions I need to take.
If I'm healthy I'm happy! I'm not a worry wart but I am going to try and stay healthy any way possible. I don't feel it's an intrusion of my freedom.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:50 AM   #26
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I don't know about you but I don't want any virus and I will do what ever needs to be done to prevent me from getting it. I don't like being sick so I will take what ever precautions I need to take.
If I'm healthy I'm happy! I'm not a worry wart but I am going to try and stay healthy any way possible.
You and I agree about not wanting to be sick. However, if you have a preexisting condition, the responsibility is yours to be safe, not the rest of society. What we are doing is completely unprecedented and in my opinion unnecessary. The infected and people worried about being infected should be quarantined. The rest of us should be able to live our lives normally, which means going to work and running our businesses. Yes, there will be a risk, but isn't there risks now? They haven't gone away because of shelter in place. I went to BJ's and Shaw's yesterday, and there's a good chance that I touched something that may contain the virus. We have mail and packages delivered to our home.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:55 AM   #27
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I apologize if this has been posted in another post or thread, but I couldn't find it.

Here's a different perspective (one I completely agree with) from two doctors (MD's, not PHD's....).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRq...ature=youtu.be

It's time to end this mess now. Open the state and let people get back to work, living their lives and taking care of their families.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:58 AM   #28
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I apologize if this has been posted in another post or thread, but I couldn't find it.

Here's a different perspective (one I completely agree with) from two doctors (MD's, not PHD's....).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRq...ature=youtu.be
Facebook has scrubbed the video because one of the doctors referred to it as the Wuhan virus. This is what we are up against.
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:20 AM   #29
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Facebook has scrubbed the video because one of the doctors referred to it as the Wuhan virus. This is what we are up against.
I'm shocked, Major! Say it isn't so...

Here's the next problem on the horizon. I put a link to CNN, so the alarmists might actually pay attention and believe it (or some of it).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/busin...-ad/index.html
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot View Post
I apologize if this has been posted in another post or thread, but I couldn't find it.

Here's a different perspective (one I completely agree with) from two doctors (MD's, not PHD's....).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRq...ature=youtu.be

It's time to end this mess now. Open the state and let people get back to work, living their lives and taking care of their families.
Excellent and informative video!

Thanks for posting!

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Old 04-27-2020, 10:28 AM   #31
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I'm shocked, Major! Say it isn't so...

Here's the next problem on the horizon. I put a link to CNN, so the alarmists might actually pay attention and believe it (or some of it).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/busin...-ad/index.html
I just placed a large order with Omaha Steaks
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:39 AM   #32
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Facebook has scrubbed the video because one of the doctors referred to it as the Wuhan virus. This is what we are up against.
A ER doc as expert on public health? Owner of a for-profit urgent care chain (that is likely losing plenty of money due to social distancing causing a drop off in other ER-type visits)? Who just can't help himself and needs to use the political tactic of referring to Wuhan?

What you are "up against" is rational people who are able to sniff out BS
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:59 AM   #33
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A ER doc as expert on public health? Owner of a for-profit urgent care chain (that is likely losing plenty of money due to social distancing causing a drop off in other ER-type visits)? Who just can't help himself and needs to use the political tactic of referring to Wuhan?

What you are "up against" is rational people who are able to sniff out BS
What are we up against? Let me name a few --

Russian collusion
Ukraine collusion
Paris Accord designed to destroy our economy
Brett Kavanaugh (especially in light of the new Creepy Joe accusations)
Complete overreaction, media- and social media-driven crisis designed to destroy our economy

Give me some time and I can think of others.

Did you see the video? I find it hard to believe that someone as enlightened and openminded as you did not find them even a tiny bit credible? They were rational, acknowledging the risks of the virus, while making the point that our approach may be wrong.
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:11 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
A ER doc as expert on public health? Owner of a for-profit urgent care chain (that is likely losing plenty of money due to social distancing causing a drop off in other ER-type visits)? Who just can't help himself and needs to use the political tactic of referring to Wuhan?

What you are "up against" is rational people who are able to sniff out BS
Jeez, what took you so long? A quote from you from a different post:

"I don't think it's necessary to change someone's mind on fundamental outlook type stuff. But politics aside, a person who is unable to change his mind on specific issues as new information comes in has my sympathy--that would mean he is unable to learn.

If you like to think of yourself as a thinking person, and your views on things such as disease, economics, politics, family, society, etc have not been changing/evolving over the past couple of months, I'd say either you're not really thinking, or you're not really honest with yourself."


So I guess we should believe Bill Gates and Fauci rather than two doctors on the "front lines"?
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:14 AM   #35
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Question Probably "over", but adding anyway...

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What are we up against? Let me name a few --

Russian collusion
Ukraine collusion
Paris Accord designed to destroy our economy
Brett Kavanaugh (especially in light of the new Creepy Joe accusations)
Complete overreaction, media- and social media-driven crisis designed to destroy our economy

Give me some time and I can think of others.

Did you see the video? I find it hard to believe that someone as enlightened and openminded as you did not find them even a tiny bit credible? They were rational, acknowledging the risks of the virus, while making the point that our approach may be wrong.
The November national vote by mail?

https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-says-d...144600186.html
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:50 AM   #36
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Jeez, what took you so long? A quote from you from a different post:

"I don't think it's necessary to change someone's mind on fundamental outlook type stuff. But politics aside, a person who is unable to change his mind on specific issues as new information comes in has my sympathy--that would mean he is unable to learn.

If you like to think of yourself as a thinking person, and your views on things such as disease, economics, politics, family, society, etc have not been changing/evolving over the past couple of months, I'd say either you're not really thinking, or you're not really honest with yourself."


So I guess we should believe Bill Gates and Fauci rather than two doctors on the "front lines"?
My thinking on the things I listed--especially economics which is now in completely uncharted waters--changes almost daily. But yes, I still think that comparing the docs in the video to Fauci and Gates is similar to kids' sports coaches talking about how much better they would have done than Bill Belichick or Alex Cora. Nobody's perfect, but it's a completely different league
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:55 AM   #37
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I'm shocked, Major! Say it isn't so...

Here's the next problem on the horizon. I put a link to CNN, so the alarmists might actually pay attention and believe it (or some of it).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/busin...-ad/index.html
Is this posted to say Covid is a threat to our food supply, or that we alarmists are over reacting to something?
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:57 AM   #38
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You and I agree about not wanting to be sick. However, if you have a preexisting condition, the responsibility is yours to be safe, not the rest of society. What we are doing is completely unprecedented and in my opinion unnecessary. The infected and people worried about being infected should be quarantined. The rest of us should be able to live our lives normally, which means going to work and running our businesses. Yes, there will be a risk, but isn't there risks now? They haven't gone away because of shelter in place. I went to BJ's and Shaw's yesterday, and there's a good chance that I touched something that may contain the virus. We have mail and packages delivered to our home.
I don't have any pre-existing conditions. I'm healthy, at 66, and I want to keep it that way. I'm no good to anyone if I'm sick or even dead.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:05 PM   #39
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Is this posted to say Covid is a threat to our food supply, or that we alarmists are over reacting to something?
Yes, unfortunately, there are alarmists. It wasn't that long ago that we made the decision to quarantine and shelter in place based on "models" showing two to three million Americans dying from the Chinese coronavirus. Essentially, we've experienced a bad flu season. (I question the death numbers we are seeing. I think they're inflated. They include deaths from hospice facilities, for example. There appears to be no discrimination between the flu or the Chinese coronavirus. Nearly every death with an associated sickness is being attributed to Chinese coronavirus, without the benefit of autopsies.)

Anyway, the models were completely wrong. The alarmists and the media are complicit in ginning up this so-called crisis.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:08 PM   #40
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I don't have any pre-existing conditions. I'm healthy, at 66, and I want to keep it that way. I'm no good to anyone if I'm sick or even dead.
I have a perfect solution for you. I can go to work and to restaurants and enjoy time with my friends and family, and you can shelter in place until you feel that you are reasonably safe to move forward with your life. That is all any of us are asking. Those who have concerns, and I don't dismiss them as being illegitimate, have the right to behave in a manner that protects them. However, we have the right to live and earn a living. Sound good?
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:13 PM   #41
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Yes, unfortunately, there are alarmists. It wasn't that long ago that we made the decision to quarantine and shelter in place based on "models" showing two to three million Americans dying from the Chinese coronavirus. Essentially, we've experienced a bad flu season. (I question the death numbers we are seeing. I think they're inflated. They include deaths from hospice facilities, for example. There appears to be no discrimination between the flu or the Chinese coronavirus. Nearly every death with an associated sickness is being attributed to Chinese coronavirus, without the benefit of autopsies.)

Anyway, the models were completely wrong. The alarmists and the media are complicit in ginning up this so-called crisis.
Is there an answer to my question in here? I may have missed it.

Should I take your reply to mean "yes the alarmists overreacted, and there is no reason to shut the food plants"?
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:15 PM   #42
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Is there an answer to my question in here? I may have missed it.

Should I take your reply to mean "yes the alarmists overreacted, and there is no reason to shut the food plants"?
I'm sorry, yes, the alarmists overreacted and there is no reason to shut down food plants.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:17 PM   #43
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Is this posted to say Covid is a threat to our food supply, or that we alarmists are over reacting to something?
It's an unintended consequence (one of many) of the (over)reaction to this virus situation. Another one is that people with serious conditions (heart disease, cancer, and many other life-threatening illnesses) are avoiding going to the hospital because of "FEAR" of catching corona virus. The repercussions of this will be significant.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:19 PM   #44
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Why r u asking permission this is the United States. Who cares what people think.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:28 PM   #45
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I'm sorry, yes, the alarmists overreacted and there is no reason to shut down food plants.
No no dentist ever reattached an arm because there was surgeon available.

#2 you keep quoting how 2 million were suppose to die but never say that was without social distancing.

#3 we do not yet know how many will die

#4 meat plants shut down because they were overwhelmed with infected employees and could no longe run the plants.

#5 Most of comments are so far off from reality I have no doubt you are just poking people for entertainment value.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:32 PM   #46
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It's an unintended consequence (one of many) of the (over)reaction to this virus situation. Another one is that people with serious conditions (heart disease, cancer, and many other life-threatening illnesses) are avoiding going to the hospital because of "FEAR" of catching corona virus. The repercussions of this will be significant.
The plants are closing. The closing are dictated by the companies, not the government. They are closed because of the number of employees who are too sick to work in a food processing plant. These are skilled jobs that can't be replaced in a moment

You say that this is an overreaction, by the companies, to the virus. These multi national corporations are living in fear, and therefore are shutting operations. Strains credibility just a bit.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:35 PM   #47
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The plants are closing. The closing are dictated by the companies, not the government. They are closed because of the number of employees who are too sick to work in a food processing plant. These are skilled jobs that can't be replaced in a moment

You say that this is an overreaction, by the companies, to the virus. These multi national corporations are living in fear, and therefore are shutting operations. Strains credibility just a bit.
It strains credibility because it doesn't fit your narrative. We will never agree.
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:29 PM   #48
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It strains credibility because it doesn't fit your narrative. We will never agree.
You posted the article. I'm just trying to figure out what you meant by it.

The gist of the article seems to be - the companies shut their own plants because there are too many high skilled American workers sick to safely operate them.

I was curious why someone, such as yourself, posted an article that is more likely to be shared by someone with my views.

Maybe we do agree.
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:59 PM   #49
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I look forward to the day that we can argue about which oil to use in our boats.

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Old 04-27-2020, 05:19 PM   #50
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I look forward to the day that we can argue about which oil to use in our boats.

Nothing like an oil question to rile the hornets on an antique motorcycle page! Straight 60 in old bikes, 20W50 syn in the bowrider, 15W40 Rotella in the crusaders
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Old 04-27-2020, 07:07 PM   #51
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The alarmists and the media are complicit in ginning up this so-called crisis.
The media is ginning up this so-called crisis? Huh. Trump said two weeks ago that "the media minimized the risk from the start.Ē
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:17 PM   #52
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Yes, unfortunately, there are alarmists. It wasn't that long ago that we made the decision to quarantine and shelter in place based on "models" showing two to three million Americans dying from the Chinese coronavirus. Essentially, we've experienced a bad flu season. (I question the death numbers we are seeing. I think they're inflated. They include deaths from hospice facilities, for example. There appears to be no discrimination between the flu or the Chinese coronavirus. Nearly every death with an associated sickness is being attributed to Chinese coronavirus, without the benefit of autopsies.)

Anyway, the models were completely wrong. The alarmists and the media are complicit in ginning up this so-called crisis.
Seems that we need to find a balance. Many of the strident posters on this board seem to feel that we should have completely disregarded the medical consensus that we needed to change the trajectory of this thing, or they think we should be on complete lockdown until a vaccine is in place. Or maybe thatís just the noise on here and there are a whole lot of folks that want to find a reasonable middle ground. But I digress.

With all due respect my main point is I simply donít get the flu argument that you make. The data I have seen indicates one of the worst flu seasons in recent memory was when up to 60,000 people died here in the U.S. We have seen close to that number of deaths already and obviously many more to come, and all that is despite the incredibly draconian and strict measures that were implemented all over the world. In my humble opinion it is logical to assume the number of deaths would be far, far greater than the worst flu season had no measures at all been put in place. But even with the extreme measures in place we have failed. The U.S. population is but a few percent of the world but we have more than 25 percent of the deaths. We sadly missed the opportunity early on to rein this in.

I agree though that our county needs a healthy debate on how to address the pandemic in the most reasonable way possible. I think the U.S. is having that debate now but our politics are so poisoned, people so polarized, and our faith in our political leadership so lacking that itís an ugly, unhealthy, hate filled debate. Too bad the centrists are gone. Theyíve been eviscerated from the public arena to the detriment of our country and its future.
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:31 AM   #53
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Seems that we need to find a balance. Many of the strident posters on this board seem to feel that we should have completely disregarded the medical consensus that we needed to change the trajectory of this thing, or they think we should be on complete lockdown until a vaccine is in place. Or maybe thatís just the noise on here and there are a whole lot of folks that want to find a reasonable middle ground. But I digress.

With all due respect my main point is I simply donít get the flu argument that you make. The data I have seen indicates one of the worst flu seasons in recent memory was when up to 60,000 people died here in the U.S. We have seen close to that number of deaths already and obviously many more to come, and all that is despite the incredibly draconian and strict measures that were implemented all over the world. In my humble opinion it is logical to assume the number of deaths would be far, far greater than the worst flu season had no measures at all been put in place. But even with the extreme measures in place we have failed. The U.S. population is but a few percent of the world but we have more than 25 percent of the deaths. We sadly missed the opportunity early on to rein this in.

I agree though that our county needs a healthy debate on how to address the pandemic in the most reasonable way possible. I think the U.S. is having that debate now but our politics are so poisoned, people so polarized, and our faith in our political leadership so lacking that itís an ugly, unhealthy, hate filled debate. Too bad the centrists are gone. Theyíve been eviscerated from the public arena to the detriment of our country and its future.
Excellent post. The bickering, chest beating and ganging up is out of control (IMHO). If this represents what society is turning into .....

There used to be a term: "the silent majority", hope it is alive and well..
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:31 AM   #54
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Seems that we need to find a balance. Many of the strident posters on this board seem to feel that we should have completely disregarded the medical consensus that we needed to change the trajectory of this thing, or they think we should be on complete lockdown until a vaccine is in place. Or maybe thatís just the noise on here and there are a whole lot of folks that want to find a reasonable middle ground. But I digress.

With all due respect my main point is I simply donít get the flu argument that you make. The data I have seen indicates one of the worst flu seasons in recent memory was when up to 60,000 people died here in the U.S. We have seen close to that number of deaths already and obviously many more to come, and all that is despite the incredibly draconian and strict measures that were implemented all over the world. In my humble opinion it is logical to assume the number of deaths would be far, far greater than the worst flu season had no measures at all been put in place. But even with the extreme measures in place we have failed. The U.S. population is but a few percent of the world but we have more than 25 percent of the deaths. We sadly missed the opportunity early on to rein this in.

I agree though that our county needs a healthy debate on how to address the pandemic in the most reasonable way possible. I think the U.S. is having that debate now but our politics are so poisoned, people so polarized, and our faith in our political leadership so lacking that itís an ugly, unhealthy, hate filled debate. Too bad the centrists are gone. Theyíve been eviscerated from the public arena to the detriment of our country and its future.
Glendale - you are spot on with all your points. It's nice to see balance, which doesn't have much of a chance with the shrieking extremists on both sides.
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:58 AM   #55
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Glendale - you are spot on with all your points. It's nice to see balance, which doesn't have much of a chance with the shrieking extremists on both sides.
Part of the incomprehension is in the numbers.

Pennsylvania's ME's forced their government health department to adjust their death-count numbers down by 1000.

New York raised theirs by 3700.

Factoid: If your state's governor is a Democrat, your chance of dying of C-19 is five times higher than otherwise.

Last edited by ApS; 04-28-2020 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Add factoid
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:56 AM   #56
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Part of the incomprehension is in the numbers.

Pennsylvania's ME's forced their government health department to adjust their death-count numbers down by 1000.

New York raised theirs by 3700.

Factoid: If your state's governor is a Democrat, your chance of dying of C-19 is five times higher than otherwise.
For example Massachusetts is testing and tracing therefore more cases are known than for example Florida. Testing finds more cases therefore more testing equals better or more accurate deaths from Covid-19. Your chance of dying are not YET dependent on a red or blue state. Georgia might change that but time will tell.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:58 AM   #57
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Firstly, the story about the dentist is true. It is obvious NTW doesn't know much about the Navy. Not all ships are assigned surgeons. Smaller ships, like destroyers, may have a dentist, a PA, or some other health professional who is not a doctor. These health professionals must deal with any and all emergencies when at sea. My friend had to reattach an arm of a seaman who severed his arm.

Secondly, I liken this to a bad flu because the raw numbers tell me so. To date, 56,803 Americans have died because of the Chinese coronavirus. (Although, I think this number is vastly inflated, since it includes patients in hospice, regular flu victims, and pretty much anyone in a nursing or retirement facility.) But let's take the number as is. For argument sake, let's say after the second wave that a total of 120,000 Americans will fall victim to the Chinese coronavirus. In 2017-2018, between 60,000 and 85,000 Americans died of the flu. I would say that 120,000 deaths is a bad year, perhaps even an historically bad year.

We adopted our course of action because the models were wrong and overhyped. The media and social media got caught up with "flattening the curve" although this approach had never been tried. There is no evidence as of now that quarantining and sheltering has done anything to protect us. Nearly all victims are old and/or have preexisting conditions. It seems to me that a better course would have been to protect those in nursing and retirement facilities, since the vast majority of victims are from there.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:35 AM   #58
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Question Numbers Over-Hyped?

Maybe yes? Maybe no?
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:39 AM   #59
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Secondly, I liken this to a bad flu because the raw numbers tell me so. To date, 56,803 Americans have died because of the Chinese coronavirus. (Although, I think this number is vastly inflated, since it includes patients in hospice, regular flu victims, and pretty much anyone in a nursing or retirement facility.) But let's take the number as is. For argument sake, let's say after the second wave that a total of 120,000 Americans will fall victim to the Chinese coronavirus. In 2017-2018, between 60,000 and 85,000 Americans died of the flu. I would say that 120,000 deaths is a bad year, perhaps even an historically bad year.

We adopted our course of action because the models were wrong and overhyped. The media and social media got caught up with "flattening the curve" although this approach had never been tried. There is no evidence as of now that quarantining and sheltering has done anything to protect us. Nearly all victims are old and/or have preexisting conditions. It seems to me that a better course would have been to protect those in nursing and retirement facilities, since the vast majority of victims are from there.
Interesting. Guess we wonít know the true story until the after analysis is done. This med professional author linked below thinks that now that nursing homes are required to report data that the death numbers will actually increase significantly.

https://theconversation.com/failure-...numbers-137212

It seems a real stretch to argue that quarantining and sheltering has done nothing to protect us. That seems highly illogical and is contrary to what expert virologists worldwide believe. But maybe because we started so late in the U.S. the horse had left the barn well before we took measures to protect, and those measures werenít all that effective and that is why we have such a disproportionate share of worldwide deaths. Seems illogical but who knows. But itís impossible to make a reasonable argument that quarantining and sheltering didnít protect people in countries that moved early and aggressively. It very obviously made a huge difference compared to countries that were late on the start and/or not as aggressive.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:53 AM   #60
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Interesting. Guess we won’t know the true story until the after analysis is done. This med professional author linked below thinks that now that nursing homes are required to report data that the death numbers will actually increase significantly.

https://theconversation.com/failure-...numbers-137212

It seems a real stretch to argue that quarantining and sheltering has done nothing to protect us. That seems highly illogical and is contrary to what expert virologists worldwide believe. But maybe because we started so late in the U.S. the horse had left the barn well before we took measures to protect, and those measures weren’t all that effective and that is why we have such a disproportionate share of worldwide deaths. Seems illogical but who knows. But it’s impossible to make a reasonable argument that quarantining and sheltering didn’t protect people in countries that moved early and aggressively. It very obviously made a huge difference compared to countries that were late on the start and/or not as aggressive.
Remember these were the same so-called experts who in late February were telling us there is nothing to worry about. These are the same experts that told us not to wear masks or gloves. These are the same experts who told us limiting travel from China was unnecessary. They really don't know what they are doing. They are making it up as they go along. It wasn't until the media and social media caused a frenzy that they changed their tune.

I believe the financial and economic harm caused by this overreaction will be far worse. I guess we'll find out.
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Old 04-28-2020, 10:11 AM   #61
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Remember these were the same so-called experts who in late February were telling us there is nothing to worry about. These are the same experts that told us not to wear masks or gloves. These are the same experts who told us limiting travel from China was unnecessary. They really don't know what they are doing. They are making it up as they go along. It wasn't until the media and social media caused a frenzy that they changed their tune.

I believe the financial and economic harm caused by this overreaction will be far worse. I guess we'll find out.
No, those arenít the virologists that I am referring to. Anyway, I didnít jump in here to just rehash ground thatís been covered repeatedly so I will step back out now and do something more productive than gum up this message board. Stay safe all and may we all enjoy another beautiful summer at the Lake. Hoping for the best.
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:59 PM   #62
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:18 PM   #63
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Default I think I located ďBelichickĒ

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My thinking on the things I listed--especially economics which is now in completely uncharted waters--changes almost daily. But yes, I still think that comparing the docs in the video to Fauci and Gates is similar to kids' sports coaches talking about how much better they would have done than Bill Belichick or Alex Cora. Nobody's perfect, but it's a completely different league
Is this doctor in the right league?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....pening-up/amp/
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:39 PM   #64
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My thinking on the things I listed--especially economics which is now in completely uncharted waters--changes almost daily. But yes, I still think that comparing the docs in the video to Fauci and Gates is similar to kids' sports coaches talking about how much better they would have done than Bill Belichick or Alex Cora. Nobody's perfect, but it's a completely different league
YouTube has taken down most of the California doctors' videos because the video doesn't meet "Community Standards". There are few copies of that video still hanging on.

Here's the career-bureaucrat Dr. Fauci rubbing shoulders with some famous names:
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:28 PM   #65
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Is this doctor in the right league?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....pening-up/amp/
I really don't think you can compare Fauci, Gates, and Belichick to normal practitioners. But I agree that the doctor you cite seems good, and I recommend that others read the article for a view from the ER. I hope we have more testing available before we reopen (and I'm disgusted that we do not have that in place yet), but reasonable people can disagree on exact criteria. Cheers
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:46 PM   #66
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Interesting. Guess we wonít know the true story until the after analysis is done. This med professional author linked below thinks that now that nursing homes are required to report data that the death numbers will actually increase significantly.

https://theconversation.com/failure-...numbers-137212

It seems a real stretch to argue that quarantining and sheltering has done nothing to protect us. That seems highly illogical and is contrary to what expert virologists worldwide believe. But maybe because we started so late in the U.S. the horse had left the barn well before we took measures to protect, and those measures werenít all that effective and that is why we have such a disproportionate share of worldwide deaths. Seems illogical but who knows. But itís impossible to make a reasonable argument that quarantining and sheltering didnít protect people in countries that moved early and aggressively. It very obviously made a huge difference compared to countries that were late on the start and/or not as aggressive.

Thank you...check my post today that is titled "did you see this..." Check out the explosive live graph that shows on 2/24 US was at the bottom of all the world countries having the number of cases. Within 4 weeks we surpassed every country of cases. Then 6 weeks US had 40% of the world cases. What does that tell you? how could this have happened? This is not a seasonal 6 month flu by an means.
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Old 04-28-2020, 11:08 PM   #67
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YouTube has taken down most of the California doctors' videos because the video doesn't meet "Community Standards". There are few copies of that video still hanging on.

Here's the career-bureaucrat Dr. Fauci rubbing shoulders with some famous names:
So here he is with his fellow presenters and the recipients of Andrew Carnegie Foundation awards for philanthropy. Oh, the humanity.

Definitely time to stop reading the COVID-19 sub forum when so much drivel is presented. I’ll stick to Top Waters excellent historical photos from now on.


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Old 04-29-2020, 06:37 AM   #68
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I really don't think you can compare Fauci, Gates, and Belichick to normal practitioners. But I agree that the doctor you cite seems good, and I recommend that others read the article for a view from the ER. I hope we have more testing available before we reopen (and I'm disgusted that we do not have that in place yet), but reasonable people can disagree on exact criteria. Cheers
Aw, címon...thatís roughing the passer! 15 yard penalty, automatic 1st down!

The goalposts seem to keep moving, but what the hell at this point. Have a great day!
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Old 04-29-2020, 07:55 AM   #69
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So here he is with his fellow presenters and the recipients of Andrew Carnegie Foundation awards for philanthropy. Oh, the humanity. Definitely time to stop reading the COVID-19 sub forum when so much drivel is presented. Iíll stick to Top Waters excellent historical photos from now on.
Is "drivel" all that conflicting reading material intentionally omitted by the MSM?

Eugenics, y'know, the "science" put into practice by that well-known name in German National Socialism? (Some celebrated his birthday on April 20th).

I can't speak to the women of that group, but Dr. Fauci is surrounded by famous males who owe their "fame" to Eugenics.

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"That said, the bigger question should be asked of Jonathan Karl: Why did the White House Correspondents Association intentionally invite a Communist propagandist to attend the briefing?Ö Asking questions about a crisis the Chinese Communists created?" https://wbsm.com/propagandist-embrac...edium=referral
Now, Dr. Fauci was pleased that organizer Jonathon Karl got a CCP "journalist" into the briefing room, let himself out last, and gave a knowing "pistol" gesture to him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JenniferJ...12190895423490
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:43 AM   #70
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Aw, címon...thatís roughing the passer! 15 yard penalty, automatic 1st down!

The goalposts seem to keep moving, but what the hell at this point. Have a great day!
Oops, haha--I thought I was being nice. No harm, no foul? Cheers
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:01 PM   #71
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Yes, unfortunately, there are alarmists. It wasn't that long ago that we made the decision to quarantine and shelter in place based on "models" showing two to three million Americans dying from the Chinese coronavirus. Essentially, we've experienced a bad flu season. (I question the death numbers we are seeing. I think they're inflated. They include deaths from hospice facilities, for example. There appears to be no discrimination between the flu or the Chinese coronavirus. Nearly every death with an associated sickness is being attributed to Chinese coronavirus, without the benefit of autopsies.)

Anyway, the models were completely wrong. The alarmists and the media are complicit in ginning up this so-called crisis.
The fact of the matter is that the death rates (from any cause) have been way over what would be in the average range for this time of year, indicating that something unusual is going on. (You can look this up. There are many graphs showing the spike in deaths vs the seasonal averages)

As a resident in the Boston area, I have been shocked at the size of the death notices section in the Sunday Globe for the last several weeks. Last Sunday's obituaries filled over 21 pages. It's pretty shocking to turn all those pages, and not at all normal. And these deaths are occurring within a lockdown scenario. Imagine if life had been going on as usual? The hospitals would be even more overwhelmed and we'd be digging mass graves.

It's great that NH hasn't been as hard hit, but no-one should minimize the risk of a very contagious and unpredictable disease. Especially since there are asymptomatic carriers.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:26 PM   #72
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The fact of the matter is that the death rates (from any cause) have been way over what would be in the average range for this time of year, indicating that something unusual is going on. (You can look this up. There are many graphs showing the spike in deaths vs the seasonal averages)

As a resident in the Boston area, I have been shocked at the size of the death notices section in the Sunday Globe for the last several weeks. Last Sunday's obituaries filled over 21 pages. It's pretty shocking to turn all those pages, and not at all normal. And these deaths are occurring within a lockdown scenario. Imagine if life had been going on as usual? The hospitals would be even more overwhelmed and we'd be digging mass graves.

It's great that NH hasn't been as hard hit, but no-one should minimize the risk of a very contagious and unpredictable disease. Especially since there are asymptomatic carriers.
I prefer to look at the raw numbers. 2017-2018 was a particularly bad flu year. 60,000 to 85,000 Americans died of the flu. Forgive me for repeating information I posted elsewhere, but to date 59,819 Americans have died from the Chinese coronavirus. (I think this number is inflated, since hospice patients, regular flu victims and nursing/retirement home deaths are being lumped in regardless of whether there is evidence that the person had the Chinese coronavirus.) That said, let's accept the number as is. Although it is difficult to forecast the total numbers, especially after the second wave, let's forecast the total number of deaths to be 120,000. Although tragic, it is an especially bad flu year, maybe even historical. No matter how bad the virus, given the data we now know, we never ever, ever should have shut down our economy. The numbers do not support it.

It is apparent that a large portion of the deaths are occurring in nursing/retirement homes. Why is this happening with all of the precautions we are taking, e.g., shutting down restaurants, gyms, church services, social distancing, quarantining, masks, gloves, etc.? It isn't people sheltering in place who are dying, it's our most vulnerable. Sheltering in place and social distancing did nothing to prevent the spread of the virus. Is it really heretical to question why we destroyed our economy yet our most vulnerable still died?

Regarding hospitals, it is untrue that they are overwhelmed. In fact quite the opposite. Lakes Region General Hospital essentially shut down because of non-use.
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Old 04-29-2020, 02:03 PM   #73
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While I don't agree with everything MAJOR says, I do tend to agree with some of the aspects in this last post. The fact of the matter is that over 1/2 of all deaths in Mass have been from nursing homes. Incredibly, incredibly sad.

Perhaps the strategy should have been even more focused on this population and facilities and less on the entire country. There are a finite number of these homes and assisted living sites and they could have taken steps to better protect these sites above and beyond the general population. In NY they were actually sending nursing home patients back to the facilities after being diagnosed with Corona if you can believe that.

Could not comment on MA hospitals volume (would not be surprised if they were loaded up given it's the 3rd worse state for this virus right after NY/NJ) but a friend of mine works in RI and they are not overloaded.

Will be interesting to see what the anti-body testing shows down the line.
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Old 04-29-2020, 04:37 PM   #74
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Question The Deathcount Itself Hardly Needs Such Accuracy...

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For example Massachusetts is testing and tracing therefore more cases are known than for example Florida. Testing finds more cases therefore more testing equals better or more accurate deaths from Covid-19. Your chance of dying are not YET dependent on a red or blue state. Georgia might change that but time will tell.
Will Massachusetts' "testers" be as accurate as Massachusetts' state clinicians analyzing cocaine?


Massachusetts and Florida are both administered by Republican Governors.

Since last year's election for Georgia's Governor was barely conceded, Georgia may not be "in the count".

The contestant for Florida's top administrator was progressive Andrew Gillum, who's since made some devastating headlines:
https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.or...-gay-escort%2F
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