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Old 07-12-2021, 10:57 AM   #1
fatlazyless
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Default open carry - Market Basket, Plymouth NH

Ok, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:14 AM   #2
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I don't understand it and never will. the open carry person
will be the first target
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Ok, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
I don't understand it and never will. the open carry person
will be the first target
It never crossed your mind that having a person open carrying is a deterrent to a common criminal?

I'd personally never do it as it draws unwanted attention but I don't have a problem with those that do. I see no difference in whether or not it is concealed. An armed person is an armed person.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:46 AM   #4
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Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


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Old 07-12-2021, 11:47 AM   #5
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As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:51 AM   #6
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I saw that in Gilford Walmart a couple years ago. We got to the check-out line and there was a husband/wife in front of us...maybe 50-ish...and they both had pistols in holsters at their waist. Although I don't own a gun, I am not anti-gun, and have shot pistols and rifles numerous times, but it did freak me out a bit to see that out in the open on a Sunday morning in Walmart
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


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I think what you're saying is that NH's less/unrestricted gun laws have led to lower crime rates. Most research shows that's not true.

Education, however, along with a good economy and access to medical and mental health are all directly connected.

Here's what many feel is the best research on RTC laws and their outcomes: https://www.nber.org/papers/w23510

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Old 07-12-2021, 01:34 PM   #8
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As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?
This thread will not end well.
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Ok, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!
You never know when you're going to have to shoot the guy taking the last bag of toilet paper.
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:23 PM   #10
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This is a great country and NH is a great state. No chance of a hold up or mugging when these guys are around.
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Old 07-12-2021, 04:15 PM   #11
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Thumbs up agree to disagree

I absolutely agree w/ the 1st part of ur statement. NH is a great state and this is a great country. The 2nd part I have to disagree w/u. While I have no
issues w/ gun licenses and RTC, my problem is that sometimes showing a gun brings on issues of its own. I don't feel more safe and secure because some
body has a weapon showing. In this day and age it's not a guarantee that
the armed person is one of the good guys. It's a known fact that some people "snap" if they see someone wearing a mask,washing their hands,etc.
I agree w/ a previous post that maybe they're making up for something else,
but they still can antagonize people. How are they ensuring my safety by
openly carrying a gun? Are they going to shoot someone if there is a scrap?
I respectfully submit this .
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Old 07-12-2021, 04:30 PM   #12
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Must remember until just a few years back open carry was the only way here in NH. To conceal ones firearm required a permit. Old habits are difficult to brake. Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.


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Old 07-12-2021, 04:39 PM   #13
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Default Haha

No, I understand very well. I carry concealed. From where i am sitting in my barn, I can reach a loaded M&P 40. I am comfortable with people carrying around me. In the case of one open carrying in a store, they would be identified as a potential threat to the bad guy and would be the first one eliminated.

You do whatever you please, but I will continue to carry concealed and keep my capabilities less known.

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Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


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Old 07-12-2021, 04:48 PM   #14
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It never crossed your mind that having a person open carrying is a deterrent to a common criminal?

I'd personally never do it as it draws unwanted attention but I don't have a problem with those that do. I see no difference in whether or not it is concealed. An armed person is an armed person.
An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.
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Old 07-12-2021, 04:52 PM   #15
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I'm sorry, this is nuts. Oh yes, I feel so safe doing my grocery shopping while a bunch of macho men walk around with their guns exposed. This country is psycho when it comes to guns.. Just saying.... not that it does any good.
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Old 07-12-2021, 04:54 PM   #16
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Can anyone speak to shooter accuracy? I remember when politicians began suggesting that teachers should be packing my first thought was how scared I'd be of my colleagues' accuracy! Also, I recall studies showing 30% effectiveness in "tumultuous" circumstances.

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Old 07-12-2021, 05:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.
I think the real deterrent is we are a small state, with a tolerant population that for the most part lives and let's live without pushing our views on our neighbors. As a result people are not all that angry when shopping at Market Basket, and hence we don't need protection from open or concealed carry fellow citizens.

BTW I'm not at all anti-gun, but like others here I'll never understand someone that feels like they need to be openly packing when picking up peanut butter and wonder bread at the grocery store.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:29 PM   #18
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This thread will not end well.
You never know, sometimes a good conversation can stay civil. I don't think this thread will end SOON, but I do hold out hope that it ends WELL.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:30 PM   #19
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You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:39 PM   #20
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I do. Just because I wonder why people want to open carry at grocery stores doesn't mean I don't support the right to, within the law, bear arms.

I wonder why people like powdered donuts. But I support their right to have 3 or 4 with their coffee with 8 creams and 12 sugars.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:42 PM   #21
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Can anyone speak to shooter accuracy? I remember when politicians began suggesting that teachers should be packing my first thought was how scared I'd be of my colleagues' accuracy! Also, I recall studies showing 30% effectiveness in "tumultuous" circumstances.

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Training and practice is key. Just handing someone a gun and expecting them to be proficient, especially under duress, is a recipe for disaster. Proper training and understanding the laws is of the utmost importance.

I recently took a class at White Birch Armory called "The rules for armed defense". It highlights NH gun laws, concealed/open carry, situational awareness and the what if's to consider. Great course, the instructor is a friend and highly qualified instructor, police officer, SWAT team leader and retired military special agent. It is a non-shooting class, informational seminar only. I would highly recommend it.

One point it hinged on was even though something may be legal (open carry for instance), but is it wise to do so? Should you?
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:57 PM   #22
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You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...
The Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today.

Many support the Second Amendment but do not interpret it to mean individuals have a constitutional right to carry anything, anywhere.

Do I want to see guns in the grocery store, on boaters out enjoying the day, or on people sitting next to me when I am out for ice cream with my kids? No. Do I live in fear of being shot by a crazed lunatic or a good samaritan trying to stop one? No. If I have to make a choice, I would rather see the guns people are carrying than have people with concealed weapons.
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Old 07-12-2021, 06:00 PM   #23
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I’ll second everything Vita has said. Open carry…no. Your inviting trouble and yes if BG is there your first to go. I see guys open carrying I turn and go the other way.
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Old 07-12-2021, 06:26 PM   #24
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I grew up shooing at summer camp, (YMCA and BSA). My cousins in the Adirondacks all had their own guns as teens. Schools had Jr ROTC, etc. More experience in the military. I am not afraid of guns, but I have a great respect. Las a guest a couple of"Legislative Shooting Days" and participated in a variety of chances to trey everything from Cowboy shoot out contest (no, the targets don't shoot back) to an antique elephant gun and fully automatic machine guns.
Great family recreation.
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Old 07-12-2021, 06:39 PM   #25
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An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.

Tucked in your bathing suit? Sorry, couldn't resist.....
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Old 07-12-2021, 06:54 PM   #26
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Yeah you know, guns, knives, utility knives, leathermen tools, ac repair guys with tool belts on, those grocery workers flashing those box cutters. Man oh man, it's a dangerous place the Market Basket......


People carrying guns do not concern me, mass shooters never target places where there are people who can shoot back.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:00 PM   #27
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Tucked in your bathing suit? Sorry, couldn't resist.....
Ha- its the little one! See you this summer, I hope D!!
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:04 PM   #28
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I grew up shooing at summer camp, (YMCA and BSA). My cousins in the Adirondacks all had their own guns as teens. Schools had Jr ROTC, etc. More experience in the military. I am not afraid of guns, but I have a great respect. Las a guest a couple of"Legislative Shooting Days" and participated in a variety of chances to trey everything from Cowboy shoot out contest (no, the targets don't shoot back) to an antique elephant gun and fully automatic machine guns.
Great family recreation.
Me too- Camp Squanto! First thing I learned was safety. My high school had a team (yes we could bring firearms to school in 1978 under certain conditions). My buddy does horse mouneted shooting competitions, so cool!

Love shooting, but ammo$$ yikes.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:46 PM   #29
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Can you carry a gun on a military base? ....... no!

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you...tary-base.html

Can you carry a gun while shopping at the Market Basket in Plymouth, NH? ....... yes!

So, both the military base and the Market Basket are responsible members of the local community, yet they have a very different rule for carrying a gun.

Military Base in the U.S.A says NO to guns.

Market Basket in New Hampshire says YES to guns.

You notice how both military base and Market Basket have the same initials of "M B" so why the different policy for hand guns?
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:31 PM   #30
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You do realize Market Basket isn't making the rules here? The state and local governments makes the rules.
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Old 07-12-2021, 09:20 PM   #31
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I never would give that any thought in the Live Free or Die state. In fact, it would make me feel more secure.

That said, I think concealed carry is a better way to go. But it’s a personal choice.
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Old 07-12-2021, 09:49 PM   #32
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You do realize Market Basket isn't making the rules here? The state and local governments makes the rules.
Market Basket isn't making the rules here in the sense that, at least at their Plymouth store, they are choosing not to prohibit open carry. But they legally could.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:25 PM   #33
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Can you carry a gun on a military base? ....... no!

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you...tary-base.html

Can you carry a gun while shopping at the Market Basket in Plymouth, NH? ....... yes!

So, both the military base and the Market Basket are responsible members of the local community, yet they have a very different rule for carrying a gun.

Military Base in the U.S.A says NO to guns.

Market Basket in New Hampshire says YES to guns.

You notice how both military base and Market Basket have the same initials of "M B" so why the different policy for hand guns?
Can you as a civilian, walk onto a military base?..... No, not with out good reason.

Can you as a civilian walk into a Market Basket?.....Yes even if you are an evil person.

There is a difference, though there have been shootings on military bases. I for one, think military people should be able to wear firearms on base, but that's just me.

Here in NH as other places, you have no idea the number of people you come into contact with every day that are carrying concealed. Why, because there are crazies out there and they can be found anywhere. And don't forget, cops are only mins away when seconds count. Sorry, I had to use that line, but is true.

I carry and I carry concealed. Why, there are many reasons but here are two. The first is because of people that freak out when they see a gun. The second, I don't want to stand out should something ever happen, which I hope never does. So far I am doing quite well, 45 years of carrying without any issues.

As for accuracy, I find that you'd probably have better chance of good accuracy from most civilians than from a Police officer. There are some really good shooters among Police officers as I shoot with quite a few. However, that is not the norm for most Police officers. They qualify once or twice a year and that's their only shooting they do in a years time. Shooting is a skill that requires continual work. You just don't learn to shoot at 15 and you're good to go for life.

I will admit, when I see someone walking around open carrying, I take a second look,. Usually to see what they are carrying. I am a SIG snob! But I also keep that in the back of my mind. Though I suspect if a bad person saw two, three of four good persons walking around open carrying, they would probably decide to take their evil somewhere else.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:58 PM   #34
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Market Basket isn't making the rules here in the sense that, at least at their Plymouth store, they are choosing not to prohibit open carry. But they legally could.
This came up at a place I volunteer at, that has the public in multiple times a week. Though you can have a policy to prohibit open carry, lawyers are recommending against that. The reason as explained to us was that by actively prohibiting you open yourself up to liability in a few different areas.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:14 PM   #35
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Sorry, I flunked attachments. Tried unsuccessfully to post a photo I took a couple of years ago on the ship: Two signs next to each other with red lines through a cigarette and a gun to signify No Smoking and No Guns allowed aboard.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:20 PM   #36
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Liability isn't a concern... if it were, the insurance company would let us know.

It is balancing out the various factors to profitability.

Do I gain more customer/sales than I lose?
Does it cost me more to find employees willing to work in that environment?

These are the things we look at for restrictions and bans that are not government mandates.
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Old 07-13-2021, 06:56 AM   #37
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As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you...tary-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:12 AM   #38
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I've been lets say participating in the Santa Clause events for the past 6 years at our local grocery store. 2 years ago a man came in with his son or daughter cant remember? however he was also carrying a pistol on his hip. really? sorry not the place. either way if your gun advocate or not it makes people uncomfortable espicialy in that atomoshere. no place for guns when talking to Santa sorry.
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:17 AM   #39
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As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you...tary-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?
Everything you stated above is true.

However, the Supreme Court has always ruled in favor of the government with matters of constitutional rights that allows the military to restrict the rights of military personnel in ways that is not permitted in the civilian world.
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:22 AM   #40
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I've been lets say participating in the Santa Clause events for the past 6 years at our local grocery store. 2 years ago a man came in with his son or daughter cant remember? however he was also carrying a pistol on his hip. really? sorry not the place. either way if your gun advocate or not it makes people uncomfortable espicialy in that atomoshere. no place for guns when talking to Santa sorry.
But doesn't Santa Claus deliver to children, the Daisy Red Rider bb guns?

Just kidding, it goes back to the old saying, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:24 AM   #41
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As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?
A fragile ego.
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:41 AM   #42
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But doesn't Santa Claus deliver to children, the Daisy Red Rider bb guns?

Just kidding, it goes back to the old saying, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!
I'd like to add to that...just because you should, doesn't mean it's smart. I
understand that NH has a very active hunting discipline, and that's fine. All
I'm saying is that I don't see the need to walk around flaunting a weapon.
I've vacationed in NH for 58 yrs. and have never seen anyone carrying. I'm
thinking maybe it's a political statement, which is fine, but the gist of the
issue is why are you walking around armed? Did you 10 yrs ago? 5 yrs ago?
I think it's not so much protection of life and property anymore. I believe it's
become more of a status symbol. As before, respectfully submitted.
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Old 07-13-2021, 08:21 AM   #43
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I'd like to add to that...just because you should, doesn't mean it's smart. I
understand that NH has a very active hunting discipline, and that's fine. All
I'm saying is that I don't see the need to walk around flaunting a weapon.
I've vacationed in NH for 58 yrs. and have never seen anyone carrying. I'm
thinking maybe it's a political statement, which is fine, but the gist of the
issue is why are you walking around armed? Did you 10 yrs ago? 5 yrs ago?
I think it's not so much protection of life and property anymore. I believe it's
become more of a status symbol. As before, respectfully submitted.
Just to be clear, I didn't say you should.

I said just because you can, DOESN'T mean you should.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:00 AM   #44
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Sorry Bruno... I misspoke. Ur right...just because u can doesn't mean u should.
What I meant to say is that if u think that u should it doesn't mean that it's the smart thing to do.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:06 AM   #45
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Liability isn't a concern... if it were, the insurance company would let us know.

It is balancing out the various factors to profitability.

Do I gain more customer/sales than I lose?
Does it cost me more to find employees willing to work in that environment?

These are the things we look at for restrictions and bans that are not government mandates.
The insurance company sparked the discussion about open carry restrictions. They said if we restrict it, they need to see our policy in writing which might affect our liability policy, which sent us to the lawyer to draft it, who advised against it.
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Old 07-13-2021, 10:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you...tary-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?
Market Basket being private property can make the restrictions. Once posted any customer found carrying would be asked to leave. Failure to leave after being asked to do so is trespass.
But it creates an extra headache for a business that may only occasionally have to deal with it.
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Old 07-13-2021, 10:42 AM   #47
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The insurance company sparked the discussion about open carry restrictions. They said if we restrict it, they need to see our policy in writing which might affect our liability policy, which sent us to the lawyer to draft it, who advised against it.
Went through that also, scan of the lawyer determined they were an advocate. He was released as he was being paid for his legal advise and not his personal opinion. Current legal advise is either way you could encounter a lawsuit. Current policy is no employee may carry a firearm, in person or in their vehicle, on company property unless specifically authorized or face immediate release from employment.

We haven't had any employees at my location bring up concerns on the issue surrounding customers.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:05 PM   #48
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Went through that also, scan of the lawyer determined they were an advocate. He was released as he was being paid for his legal advise and not his personal opinion. Current legal advise is either way you could encounter a lawsuit.
OK so you had a lawyer who advised you (I assume) not to enact a policy as you might face a lawsuit. Why is that not sound advise as you admit that either way you could face a lawsuit based on your "current" understanding? You may not like his personal beliefs but his guidance as your legal council has merit and was not just a personal opinion.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:35 PM   #49
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Default Good guy

It seems that on this thread a person with open carry is equated as a good guy. Really? How do you know? Could be a bad guy thinking I'll open carry and they'll think I'm a good guy." Think I'll sling my biathlon rifle on and go shopping.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:52 PM   #50
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It seems that on this thread a person with open carry is equated as a good guy. Really? How do you know? Could be a bad guy thinking I'll open carry and they'll think I'm a good guy." Think I'll sling my biathlon rifle on and go shopping.
Why are you assuming the individual is a bad guy or gal? Yes, you can sling your biathlon rifle on and go shopping. Throw on the medals too? Unless it’s just for show


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Old 07-13-2021, 02:01 PM   #51
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Interesting observations and opinions all, but somehow they all seem off the mark to me.

As always we are people that are quick to judge and quick to get worked up over any matter and so SLOW to really consider the other (or any other) perspective.

It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it.

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry? (Which as correctly stated was your rule as far back as most can remember,,,) I have not seen a single report of open carry actually resulting in an actual safety problem, EVER. Likely more have suffered from loud speakers in boats than from any case of open carry ever reported!

I am also always surprised by highly inflammatory statements such as “this country is psycho when it comes to guns” or “the Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today”

“Psycho”, now that’s really going to help convince any gun owner that there might be a better option than open carry to protect themself or their family.

And any statement regarding the Second Amendment as not having been crafted as a personal and individual right to keep and bear arms (and any limitation of what kind of firearms this includes) has clearly not been following this matter, or the foundation from where is comes. The very earliest writings on this matter tell a tale of a desire to ensure protection and not even against other individuals or wildlife (that was always assumed as a personal “human” right to defend oneself) the Second Amendment was intended to allow you to defend yourself against an oppressive government. And as such it would also be assumed that citizens would have the same level/type/kind of sidearm that any military would have, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.

So for the moment I must read most of this with the expectation that it is just drama for drama sake, and all I have to do to validate my perspective is look at the OP who provides us with some of the most entertaining posts since the dialog of the original Letterman show. I thoroughly enjoy such posts as entertainment, but I could never take most of the comments as serious or having validity as this mostly reads like reactionary drama.

Well that’s one persons opinion and something I feel certain some here will treat this as just more drama, so simply sit back and enjoy as the show continues as I will be doing ;-)

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Old 07-13-2021, 02:07 PM   #52
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Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry?
I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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Old 07-13-2021, 02:22 PM   #53
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Must remember until just a few years back open carry was the only way here in NH. To conceal ones firearm required a permit. Old habits are difficult to brake. Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.


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My humor is sophomoric, but my point is quite serious. There are plenty of good reasons for owning and using guns, but only a child would really believe that walking around with a gun in a New Hampshire supermarket somehow makes him or others safer. It's got to be something else
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:48 PM   #54
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OK so you had a lawyer who advised you (I assume) not to enact a policy as you might face a lawsuit. Why is that not sound advise as you admit that either way you could face a lawsuit based on your "current" understanding? You may not like his personal beliefs but his guidance as your legal council has merit and was not just a personal opinion.
The other legal council advised that litigation could occur either way... and thus did not take a stance on whether to enact a policy or not.
We pay for legal opinions, not personal opinions.

If you are uncomfortable with the people that advise you, you seek other advise.
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:50 PM   #55
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Interesting observations and opinions all, but somehow they all seem off the mark to me.

As always we are people that are quick to judge and quick to get worked up over any matter and so SLOW to really consider the other (or any other) perspective.

It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it.

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry? (Which as correctly stated was your rule as far back as most can remember,,,) I have not seen a single report of open carry actually resulting in an actual safety problem, EVER. Likely more have suffered from loud speakers in boats than from any case of open carry ever reported!

I am also always surprised by highly inflammatory statements such as “this country is psycho when it comes to guns” or “the Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today”
“Psycho”, now that’s really going to help convince any gun owner that there might be a better option than open carry to protect themself or their family.
And any statement regarding the Second Amendment as not having been crafted as a personal and individual right to keep and bear arms (and any limitation of what kind of firearms this includes) has clearly not been following this matter, or the foundation from where is comes. The very earliest writings on this matter tell a tale of a desire to ensure protection and not even against other individuals or wildlife (that was always assumed as a personal “human” right to defend oneself) the Second Amendment was intended to allow you to defend yourself against an oppressive government. And as such it would also be assumed that citizens would have the same level/type/kind of sidearm that any military would have, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.

So for the moment I must read most of this with the expectation that it is just drama for drama sake, and all I have to do to validate my perspective is look at the OP who provides us with some of the most entertaining posts since the dialog of the original Letterman show. I thoroughly enjoy such posts as entertainment, but I could never take most of the comments as serious or having validity as this mostly reads like reactionary drama.

Well that’s one persons opinion and something I feel certain some here will treat this as just more drama, so simply sit back and enjoy as the show continues as I will be doing ;-)
So you don't believe in private property? Or don't believe that a property owner exerts right over that property?
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:51 PM   #56
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I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?
Not the guy who "smuggle" automatic rifles and fired on the crowd from a hotel room.
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:55 PM   #57
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I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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Well, actually, no!
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:34 PM   #58
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I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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No, not at all, those were mass shootings.

They had NOTHING to do with open carry.

And that is exactly my point, do you really believe that any mass shooting was caused because someone was carrying openly, or did you just say that for the sake of adding to the drama of the thread,,,

As pure entertainment its a great soundbite, but if you actually believe that Sandy Hook or Las Vegas or any other mass shooting happened because an otherwise reasonable person was carrying openly, and then out of the blue a mass shooting just happened as a result of that person having their gun not concealed vs it being hidden under a jacket, then we can never actually resolve this debate.

Matters not to me as I would never announce I had a firearm on my person by displaying it in public. Thats just my philosophy, but the hard truth of the matter is open carry in 2021 is an extreme rarity and does not happen enough anywhere in America to warrant any discussion about it.

I 100% assure you you are far greater risk every day of being killed by a distracted driver using a cell phone or texting on it, or at greater risk of killing yourself while distracted by simply having a cell phone, than any risk from someone openly carrying a hand gun. So when we fully address that problem, I might take the concern about open carry a bit more seriously. Maybe,,,

Until then, this discussion is all just drama for dramas sake.
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Old 07-13-2021, 04:44 PM   #59
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So you don't believe in private property? Or don't believe that a property owner exerts right over that property?
No idea where you get that idea from.

Clearly you have me confused with some other poster.

I believe America is a better place because we have a 1st and 2nd amendment and I fully believe in people having god given rights to defend themselves and their families and their property.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments???
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Old 07-13-2021, 04:48 PM   #60
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XCR, I appreciate your posts, agree with much of them, you have a thoughtful approach that it great because it makes me think things through.

One disagreement I have is calling a healthy discussion "just drama for drama's sake". I think this, at least so far, is a pretty good discussion, good points on all sides. Ok, I think comparing a military base to a Market Basket is not a great analogy but then again it started the discussion. It's nice to be on a forum where the discussion is about constitution and amendments and private property and not a bunch of name calling.
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Old 07-13-2021, 05:04 PM   #61
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The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.
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Old 07-13-2021, 05:45 PM   #62
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XCR, I appreciate your posts, agree with much of them, you have a thoughtful approach that it great because it makes me think things through.

One disagreement I have is calling a healthy discussion "just drama for drama's sake". I think this, at least so far, is a pretty good discussion, good points on all sides. Ok, I think comparing a military base to a Market Basket is not a great analogy but then again it started the discussion. It's nice to be on a forum where the discussion is about constitution and amendments and private property and not a bunch of name calling.
I think most discussions here are very reasonable and many very helpful, and I very much appreciate the viewpoints shared here. Well most of the time, but this one started off on a bit of an odd note and it is one of the most polarizing matters Americans are facing. So I intentionally kept away until I saw how all over the place this conversation went. In my opinion calling America (and assuming that means us) psychos for our desire to own (and possibly bear firearms) is drama. In my opinion calling mass shootings a result of open carry is drama. And so on,,,

Too much said about firearms issues is emotional not fact based, and thats what makes it drama for dramas sake.

If the conversation addressed concerns of mishandling open carry weapons, or holsters that did not secure the guns, or any number of legitimate concerns then it would be quite different and I would likely have considered it an in interesting and legitimate discussion. But it is clear that some feel that that simply showing a gun in public constituted a danger to others, and for me thats just drama.

I could speculate and raise the drama level, by saying maybe these folks were off duty law enforcement of some other profession that allows constant carry. I could speculate that these folks had suffered violent crime and simply wanted to send a message that they would not be victims again. I could do a lot of things to ramp up the drama, but I feel like this is a very important matter and one that should be taken more seriously than calling us psychos or blaming open carry for mass shootings.

The fact is it went as these kinds of polarizing issues usually go, too many go to there opposite corner and little meaningful discussion or debate actually happens. Sure there were some productive comments, but mostly drama from catbird seat.

Well thats what I saw, if you disagree, I cant fault you, its just a different observation and I respect your right to see it as you do. No heart burn here.

If you can do anything to elevate the conversation I will applaud you, and maybe you already have in your attempt to reach out to me. So for that I tip my hat to you. If you bump into me on the lake, tell me I promised to buy you a round and we can debate my "need" to buy some expensive and shiny props for the boat, or maybe my desire buy,,, well any of the crazy things on my list ;-) Thanks
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Old 07-13-2021, 05:54 PM   #63
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The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.
I'm not following, but thats ok, I may be more block-headed than most ;-)

If I can attempt to trace that back to the original post are you attempting to draw some line from my comments to some right of Market Basket to allow or prohibit open carry??? As I made no comment about that it doesn't click with me, but then as I said I'm not following so maybe I'm way off track,,,
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Old 07-13-2021, 06:02 PM   #64
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Incidentally, I've been in the process of picking up a rifle and handgun to start familiarizing L'il Buddy and Bug Bug with firearms and firearms safety, and I ended up grabbing both today. As a former MA resident, I was weirded out by how...simple...it was to buy and transport both. I hadn't known how open NH laws were to MA.

As I said above, I think we're lucky in the northeast because we have among the best standards of living, which means low crime, gun-based or otherwise.

I still won't be open-carrying my new Dirty Harry Special (jk)!

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Old 07-13-2021, 08:35 PM   #65
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Incidentally, I've been in the process of picking up a rifle and handgun to start familiarizing L'il Buddy and Bug Bug with firearms and firearms safety, and I ended up grabbing both today.

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This is interesting--why do you think it is important to familiarize your kids with guns?

Just to be clear--I enjoyed rifles as a kid. But unless I were a hunter, it would never occur to me to think of guns as a life skill the way you seem to describe it.
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Old 07-13-2021, 08:45 PM   #66
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I'm not following, but thats ok, I may be more block-headed than most ;-)

If I can attempt to trace that back to the original post are you attempting to draw some line from my comments to some right of Market Basket to allow or prohibit open carry??? As I made no comment about that it doesn't click with me, but then as I said I'm not following so maybe I'm way off track,,,
''It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it. ''

You suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights... it never does.
It does not matter if something doesn't ''hurt me''. Property owners act in their own self-interest.

That self-interest has much more effect on our policies than government mandates.

So should a restriction occur, it would be due to public (i.e. customer reaction ) to what is happening.

People tend to push an advocacy position to the point that the negative occurs.

I am sure that in the past people have cooked on Weirs Beach and listened to music... but they went so far as to agitate the backlash.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:39 PM   #67
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I'm not a gun person myself, could care less about guns. But I have a dozen or so friends that are gun fanatics and at least 2 or 3 of them shouldn't be carrying. They are loose cannons and when I'm with them I try to keep my guard up.
One took his own life, about 2 months ago, not with his gun but he's dead non the less. So I really question the stability of all many of these legal gun owners.
IMO, anyone with a gun can be provoked to use it under duress, whether it's warranted or not.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:41 PM   #68
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''It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it. ''

You suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights... it never does.
It does not matter if something doesn't ''hurt me''. Property owners act in their own self-interest.

That self-interest has much more effect on our policies than government mandates.

So should a restriction occur, it would be due to public (i.e. customer reaction ) to what is happening.

People tend to push an advocacy position to the point that the negative occurs.

I am sure that in the past people have cooked on Weirs Beach and listened to music... but they went so far as to agitate the backlash.
Ok, maybe we are getting somewhere now, RE; "you suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights"

Not sure how "you" came to that conclusion, but lets be 100% clear, thats your interpretations.

If I have a right of freedom of choice that allows me to carry a handgun openly in public, I see no reason that a public space is considered your property. So long as you do not do something discriminatory or sufficiently dangerous as to put me at actual risk, you can make up any stupid rule about access to your property you want. You are the one who will suffer your potentially bad decision.

So if you own the local grocery store and wish to prohibit open fire arms carry inside and your customers decide your policy is not agreeable to them, they can chose to not buy from you and to discourage everyone they know to not buy from you. That is freedom of choice that is exercised by both parties. Likely both will suffer. You will lose sales, and they will have to find another store to shop at.

Does that make any sense/work for you?

Am I still not on the right wavelength to get your message???

I feel like we are talking cross-purposes and manufacturing even more drama and accomplishing nothing.

Sorry if I just cant seem to make the connection to what your point is about how freedom of choice negatively impacts property owners, I feel like its just the opposite. Sorry I just dont see a conflict in freedom of choice and property ownership. Property owner are not prohibited from making their own choices.

Sorry no hard feelings, and not knocking you, just not syncing up.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:56 PM   #69
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The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.
Sorry, I don't understand where you're headed with this.
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Old 07-13-2021, 10:51 PM   #70
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This is interesting--why do you think it is important to familiarize your kids with guns?

Just to be clear--I enjoyed rifles as a kid. But unless I were a hunter, it would never occur to me to think of guns as a life skill the way you seem to describe it.
The short: as a teacher, I believe that knowledge is power.

The long: 1. There is strength in knowledge. For years, we avoided discussing sex, drugs, suicide, etc. because we felt being exposed to those things would increase the likelihood of their occurrence. We know now that education—on all things, even the taboo—reduces that likelihood greatly while increasing one's comfort, confidence, and ability to move through the world with composure.

2. In my world, the more exposed one is to various activities/behaviors/lifestyles, the more likely one is able to empathize and form legitimate beliefs/opinions/worldviews.

I think both of these are required to be good Americans.

Finally, shooting is fun, and I just love doing new things—researching and learning all the new jargon, being part of new groups of people, etc. This next half year will be pew pew time, and then we'll see what's next!
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:54 PM   #71
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The short: as a teacher, I believe that knowledge is power.

The long: 1. There is strength in knowledge. For years, we avoided discussing sex, drugs, suicide, etc. because we felt being exposed to those things would increase the likelihood of their occurrence. We know now that education—on all things, even the taboo—reduces that likelihood greatly while increasing one's comfort, confidence, and ability to move through the world with composure.

2. In my world, the more exposed one is to various activities/behaviors/lifestyles, the more likely one is able to empathize and form legitimate beliefs/opinions/worldviews.

I think both of these are required to be good Americans.

Finally, shooting is fun, and I just love doing new things—researching and learning all the new jargon, being part of new groups of people, etc. This next half year will be pew pew time, and then we'll see what's next!
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RE "shooting is fun" I so love to hear people say that. Thank You!

Too often discussions about guns seems to lead to a never ending debate about whats legal or not, what the 2nd amendment means, what guns we should be allowed to buy, ETC, Etc, etc,,,

Often we dance around why anyone would want them (guns). "Because its my right", "I need to defend,,, something", "no one is telling me what to do", YADA, Yada, yada,,

Most rarely someone will actually say its fun. An unsolicited honest and genuine answer; its fun. What better response could there be than Its FUN!

No one proposes licensing owners of steak knives or creating smart bats that prevent them them from falling into the wrong hands and being used to bludgeon someone to death, but the argument that shooting is fun is all the reason I should need to buy and own a gun ("because I like shooting") seems unthinkable and unacceptable to far too many. Even though more people are killed by knives every year than ever killed by "black rifles" since its inception (excepting for war and law enforcement) but we still question and challenge people about why you would ever want one. And here we have the perfect answer, because its fun.

What a wonderful notion, shooting is fun therefore I should be able to do it.

And my recreational shooting puts no one at risk. Wow, its like a gift.

And now this is clearly drama for dramas sake.

Just owning it ;-)
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Old 07-14-2021, 07:11 AM   #72
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So, I was at the Market Basket last night about 7:30 and got a sub-of-the-week, roast beef, made up by one pf the sandwich makers. Meanwhile the sandwich maker, he's busy making up about five different subs and setting them aside for a customer to come get them.

While I'm telling the sandwich maker what veggies I want, up walks a young guy, about 30, for the waiting order and he's wearing a large black semi-auto hand gun and this definitely gets some attention by other shoppers as he walks past them toward the sandwich counter.

So why does he wear a gun into this Market Basket? Probably because he can, he likes to show it off while walking through this busy supermarket, and they make very good sub-sandwiches for $5.29. Sub-of-the-week is 4.99. He got quick service by the sandwich maker who immediately gave him the waiting subs ...... yes sir. My sense was he just likes to parade around the busy store, wearing a big black gun in a black holster, with light beige pants and white shirt, is something fun to do, to show it off?

As he was walking away with his sub order, I felt like saying out loud; 'HEY BUDDY, HOW COME YOU WEAR A GUN INTO THIS STORE LIKE THAT?' and, you know, challenge him a little on this...... but I decided not and kept my mouth shut as he walked away ..... my smart discretion.
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:31 AM   #73
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fll - did it ever occur to you that this individual might be a law enforcement officer, like an FBI or ATF agent or state trooper? You seem to go right to the "must be a gun nut" attitude without knowing the facts. Maybe he is just a "gun nut" exercising his constitutional right to open carry in NH.
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:34 AM   #74
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So, I was at the Market Basket last night about 7:30 and got a sub-of-the-week, roast beef, made up by one pf the sandwich makers. Meanwhile the sandwich maker, he's busy making up about five different subs and setting them aside for a customer to come get them.

While I'm telling the sandwich maker what veggies I want, up walks a young guy, about 30, for the waiting order and he's wearing a large black semi-auto hand gun and this definitely gets some attention by other shoppers as he walks past them toward the sandwich counter.

So why does he wear a gun into this Market Basket? Probably because he can, he likes to show it off while walking through this busy supermarket, and they make very good sub-sandwiches for $5.29. Sub-of-the-week is 4.99. He got quick service by the sandwich maker who immediately gave him the waiting subs ...... yes sir. My sense was he just likes to parade around the busy store, wearing a big black gun in a black holster, with light beige pants and white shirt, is something fun to do, to show it off?

As he was walking away with his sub order, I felt like saying out loud; 'HEY BUDDY, HOW COME YOU WEAR A GUN INTO THIS STORE LIKE THAT?' and, you know, challenge him a little on this...... but I decided not and kept my mouth shut as he walked away ..... my smart discretion.
OUTSTANDING!

So from my average human read of your post I learned the following:

1. First and foremost your concern about open carry has not inhibited you from continuing to shop at the offending location in any way. Almost like bad TV, you seem to be drawn back to the show.

2. Your concern for this matter (or interesting in telling us about it) remains high.

3. You were able to control your impulses to make a public scene that would bring even more attention to these individuals than they bring to themselves. But then you probably realized that "they" might actually like that,,,

4. And finally and possibly most importantly, NOTHING happened because of the open carry you observed. No one was harmed. No public riot occurred. No children were trampled because you didn't cause a commotion. We learned that open carry worked and worked well without any incident of any kind.

While I personally have zero desire to carry openly while shopping at the grocery in NH, I can now feel 100% comfortable because of your dutiful reporting on the matter this its possible, its safe, and it works.

This is what truly makes America great. They can carry openly, you can complain about it, we all can enjoy the education AND entertainment we got from the thread.

All is well. Does it really get better than this. How could it, it seem pretty much perfect, everyone got what they wanted.

And best yet, the sun came up this morning and we are all alive to enjoy it, even though we cant actually see it. So if there is an analogy to be had here, maybe concealed carry is like a cloudy day where you dont see the sun, and open carry is like a clear day where you do see it. And most or the time, not always, but most of the time, we tend to like sunny days better. That said I personally enjoy a cloud or two on a hot day and so for me a big Tee shirt or jacket covering a concealed carry remains a pretty good option (but based on this thread, no necessary).

Entertaining as always, please keep em coming. Happy HUMP day.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:00 AM   #75
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Sept 6, 2019: Walmart, Kroger and CVS ban open-carry firearms in their stores.

https://time.com/5670809/walmart-kro...carry-gun-ban/ ...... U.S. stores are asking customers to stop openly carrying weapons.

You know .... there's no open carry allowed at the nearby Walmart and the Market Basket does a totally better job for making fresh sub sandwiches!
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:18 AM   #76
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Sept 6, 2019: Walmart, Kroger and CVS ban open-carry firearms in their stores.

https://time.com/5670809/walmart-kro...carry-gun-ban/ ...... U.S. stores are asking customers to stop openly carrying weapons.

You know .... there's no open carry allowed at the nearby Walmart and the Market Basket does a totally better job for making fresh sub sandwiches!
Clearly they have failed to read your thread on the matter or they would have learned just how effective open carry really is.

I hope others will learn from your experience.

And just like you are 100% correct that open carry is harmless (based on your statements of your experience) I also fully agree that Market Basket makes much better fresh sub sandwiches than Walmart (aka Subway inside Walmart) but that is mostly based on my regular purchases of meatball subs from both, though from visual observation I believe the MB cold cut subs may be even more superior to Walmart than the meatball subs are. Good call on the subs! Thats said, automotive supplies are best bought at Walmart to ensure freshness as MB seems to have low turnover of motor oil and such.

Keep up the good work!

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Old 07-14-2021, 09:26 AM   #77
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You know, I'm calling BS on this thread. I've been in that MB dozens of times and have never seen anyone open carry.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:26 AM   #78
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Although I find most of FLL's post to be a waste of time to read, I thought this time he made a valid observation.
I am not going to say anything that has not been said already but here are my 2 cents.
I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I have taken a gun safety course. I have carried maybe twice. Personally I think a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it. If I were to carry I would take all the gun courses I could find to teach me how to respond and shoot in an emergency. Without that training I am more likely to get myself and bystanders killed. Cops have that training and still get themselves into trouble.

Open carry? What is the point? The only point I can think of is intimidation of the innocent. If I am a bad guy who wants to do you harm your open display of a weapon is not in any way going to deter me...rather I would thank you for the heads up.

If I owned a store such as MB I would not allow guns to be openly displayed. If someone sued me fine...guess we would let the Courts decide.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:21 AM   #79
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fll - did it ever occur to you that this individual might be a law enforcement officer, like an FBI or ATF agent or state trooper? You seem to go right to the "must be a gun nut" attitude without knowing the facts. Maybe he is just a "gun nut" exercising his constitutional right to open carry in NH.
Most off duty cops I know always carry concealed.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:39 AM   #80
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Most off duty cops I know always carry concealed.
Yes and if they are in plainclothes carrying open, often their badge is displayed on their belt.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:54 AM   #81
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Although I find most of FLL's post to be a waste of time to read, I thought this time he made a valid observation.
I am not going to say anything that has not been said already but here are my 2 cents.
I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I have taken a gun safety course. I have carried maybe twice. Personally I think a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it. If I were to carry I would take all the gun courses I could find to teach me how to respond and shoot in an emergency. Without that training I am more likely to get myself and bystanders killed. Cops have that training and still get themselves into trouble.

Open carry? What is the point? The only point I can think of is intimidation of the innocent. If I am a bad guy who wants to do you harm your open display of a weapon is not in any way going to deter me...rather I would thank you for the heads up.

If I owned a store such as MB I would not allow guns to be openly displayed. If someone sued me fine...guess we would let the Courts decide.
Personally i think the notion that "a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it" may have some validity right up to the point of an incident, and at that moment the situation will change and go one of several different ways; the gun holder may freeze and become unable to do anything, the gun holder may exercise very cautious consideration about next steps, the gun holder may panic and do something rash, the gun holder may take positive aggressive steps to end the confrontation, the gun holder may get cocky and cause more problems. I'm sure there are even more ways this could unfold, but thats enough for the moment.

As for you prohibiting open carry in a store you own, why would that end up in court? Unless you did somethings stupid like only allowing white men to carry openly, then you might get hit with a discrimination complaint. Otherwise organizations have all kinds of rules they can implement. Long ago many restaurants would not let you in if you didnt have on a jacket and tie. Bars frequently will not let in customers who have dog chain necklaces or motorcycle chain belts, some places prohibit gang-wear including public schools! So far as I know open carry is not a 100% universal everywhere standard, for all things there are limitations, and hopefully they are reasonable.

It would go a long way toward meeting all parties interests for a company that does not want open carry in their store were to say something like "please conceal all firearms to ensure our environment is welcoming and meets the expectations of our our customers regarding their safety" or anything rather than the old heavy handed approach of "open carry is not permitted in our store"

The choice is theirs, but one might satisfy most customers while the other will surely alienate some and infuriate others.

So many choices, and we still make so many bad ones. Or, just more drama,,,
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Old 07-14-2021, 06:45 PM   #82
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Default Shopping at Market Basket, Plymouth

Based on all this discourse I decided to go shopping at the Plymouth Market Basket today. I thought it would be interesting to see all the low life’s that think they need a gun , primarily a exposed gun to feel totally free.
I was terribly disappointed and dident see a single NRA card carrier in the crowd that felt he or she had to walk around with a exposed weapon to prove he they were more American then the Fox News group. I did see more tattoos then is normal but sadly no guns. Perhaps this has been overdon by our friend FLl
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Old 07-14-2021, 07:35 PM   #83
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I took this video entering MB today, might be safer to just stay away .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CizzE-zZo
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:37 PM   #84
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Sorry, I don't understand where you're headed with this.
Everyone wants to presume that what they are doing is socially acceptable - then a restriction on what they are doing comes about and they complain rather than realize they never should have been doing it.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:23 AM   #85
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If these four different men wearing guns inside the Plymouth Market Basket, all individually by themself, over the last month or so, were not in fact REAL, then why has Walmart felt the need for a no open carry rule? Because it scares the other customers inside the store seeing these different guys walking around with a semi-auto hand gun in a holster on their hip.

In Plymouth NH, the Court House, Post Office, Speare Hospital. Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, and Rite Aid all have 'no weapons' signs posted at their entry which indicates this has been happening and these locations decided to post a no weapon notice.

It's up to Market Basket if they think a 'no open carry sign' is needed similar to these other places in Plymouth.

In a post up above, someone says the Mount Washington cruise ship has a 'no weapons' sign posted at its entry way, so if it is good for the Mount then it is probably a good thing for Market Basket to do, as well.
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:13 AM   #86
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I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?
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Old 07-15-2021, 09:02 AM   #87
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I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?
I think you are correct. Even many folks made uncomfortable by seeing the guns recognize this seeming irrationality. Although there is also the idea that, true or not, people who open carry are more dangerous.

Unfortunately, instilling fear, willful misinterpretation, and misinformation has played a daily role in many areas of our lives.

Why should the subject of open carry be any different?
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Old 07-15-2021, 09:05 AM   #88
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I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?
Same thing could be said about your genitals.
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Old 07-15-2021, 09:40 AM   #89
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If these four different men wearing guns inside the Plymouth Market Basket, all individually by themself, over the last month or so, were not in fact REAL, then why has Walmart felt the need for a no open carry rule? Because it scares the other customers inside the store seeing these different guys walking around with a semi-auto hand gun in a holster on their hip.

In Plymouth NH, the Court House, Post Office, Speare Hospital. Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, and Rite Aid all have 'no weapons' signs posted at their entry which indicates this has been happening and these locations decided to post a no weapon notice.

It's up to Market Basket if they think a 'no open carry sign' is needed similar to these other places in Plymouth.

In a post up above, someone says the Mount Washington cruise ship has a 'no weapons' sign posted at its entry way, so if it is good for the Mount then it is probably a good thing for Market Basket to do, as well.
Interesting how very quickly the conversation changes from a concern about open carry to having a gun at all. Re; "'no weapons' sign" as opposed to no open carry.

Again this is why we can rarely have reasonable discussions about such matters. The parties too often go to opposite corners, and then revel their true feelings on the matter.

So in the end it is not sufficient to hide your gun, we are back to the you cannot have a gun at all or someone else will "feel" uncomfortable.

Lets think about all the things we have been uncomfortable about over the last 100 years that have all been remedied by sensible people saying we need not fear this. For example; hippies, bikers, people of color, people with physical deformities, people from other countries, people of other religions, ETC Etc etc,,, Its our fear and ignorance that shows brightest when we judge based on appearance alone.

So again,,, what have we learned from all this;

1. First and foremost your concern about open carry has not inhibited you from actually continuing to shop at the offending location(s) in any way. Almost like bad TV, you seem to be drawn back to the show.

2. Your concern for this matter (or interesting in telling us about it) continues to remain very high.

3. You have been able to control your impulses to make a public scene about such matters that would likely have brought even more attention to these individuals than they bring to themselves. But then you probably realized that "they" might actually like that, so your self-control is appreciated.

4. And finally and again possibly the most important lesson, NOTHING happened because of the open carry you observed. No one was harmed. No public riot occurred. No children were trampled because you didn't cause a commotion. We learned that open carry worked and worked well without any incident of any kind. you simply felt uncomfortable for a couple of moments and you got over it.

Well done.

I feel certain if you can keep watching the life coach commercials on TV about how we call best conduct ourselves in public, your progress will continue.

In the end, like it was fully accepted 100 years ago, open carry will soon be of little bother to anyone who doesn't live in fear of spooks or demons or shadows, as we have seen it clearly causes no harm. Not a single case of harm coming to our ~350 million Americans has been posted here as a direct result of open carry. Few things in fact seem safer. Isn't that truly outstanding, that we have discovered such a safe activity. Hard to believe open carry is safer than swimming with a noodle,,,

I feel certain that in time you will overcome your fear of open carry, unless the real reason for the post is to eliminate everyones ability to keep and bear firearms Re: "no weapons' sign" as opposed to a no open carry sign,,,

DRAMA, Drama, drama,,, Makes for interesting reading is nothing else.
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Old 07-15-2021, 10:43 AM   #90
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Interesting how very quickly the conversation changes from a concern about open carry to having a gun at all. Re; "'no weapons' sign" as opposed to no open carry.

Again this is why we can rarely have reasonable discussions about such matters. The parties too often go to opposite corners, and then revel their true feelings on the matter.

So in the end it is not sufficient to hide your gun, we are back to the you cannot have a gun at all or someone else will "feel" uncomfortable.
It’s not as if the sign is saying you can’t have a gun at all, just not while you’re in that establishment. It’s every business’s right to determine what they will and will not allow in their establishment, just as it is your right to own a gun.

I grew up in suburban Boston having never seen a gun. When I moved to a semi-rural area and saw some hunters caring their shotguns out of the woods, I was startled initially, but then realized it was perfectly normal there. When I saw my first open carry, I remembered I was in Florida…perfectly normal there. Sometimes it just takes people time to adjust.

As for drama, don’t you think your long posts add to it?


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Old 07-15-2021, 10:48 AM   #91
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DRAMA, Drama, drama,,, Makes for interesting reading is nothing else.
With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.
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Old 07-15-2021, 11:18 AM   #92
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Arrow Open Carry-Plymouth NH; send Market Basket your comment!

The Market Basket in Plymouth, NH is an excellent store, especially all the prepared food like the sub sandwiches, salads, and tv-dinner style meals for about 4.99. The new store is a great welcome addition to the area and it opened in May, 2020.

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us

Under Inquiry ..... click on Store Experience

After filling in my name, email, and phone number, here's a way for me to send them a message about my store experience sharing the store inside space with four different men with semi-automatic handguns in holsters on four different days.

This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.

If you feel the same as me, then go ahead and let them know what you think about open carry allowed inside the Plymouth NH, Market Basket.
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Old 07-15-2021, 11:21 AM   #93
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It’s not as if the sign is saying you can’t have a gun at all, just not while you’re in that establishment. It’s every business’s right to determine what they will and will not allow in their establishment, just as it is your right to own a gun.

I grew up in suburban Boston having never seen a gun. When I moved to a semi-rural area and saw some hunters caring their shotguns out of the woods, I was startled initially, but then realized it was perfectly normal there. When I saw my first open carry, I remembered I was in Florida…perfectly normal there. Sometimes it just takes people time to adjust.

As for drama, don’t you think your long posts add to it?


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Re; stores rights, I 100% agree with you. But the store(s) are not making such decisions in a vacuum. And also likely they are not making such decisions based on a pole of their customers. In America we react to the loudest voice in the crowd, so people who are currently enjoying carrying openly and not perceiving any problem are going to store managers to say I want you to make sure you hear my preference to continue to do so. What store owners usually hear is the few who complain and then they react to that vocal group without gathering input from the masses. And once you put any restriction in place, this X times harder to get it overturned unless there is a massive uprising of concern.

As for you comments about it taking people time to adjust, I totally agree. This will fizzle. NH will not become the wild west of old, and people will get used to the very few who insist in showing off their hardware.

And finally we get to drama, and again you are 100% correct, and thats my goal in those long posts. As I have found over the years that the only way you tamp down utter nonsense is to totally ignore it, or drown it out with an even higher level of drama. Personally I prefer to ignore it and eventually I tire of the nonsense, but some matters hit a nerve as being total BS and I feel some sense to speak up and try to crush the madness.

And so in this case the only two valid points anyone should be interested in is that some people are uncomfortable seeing open carry, much like they were uncomfortable my bikers in Laconia many years ago or seeing people from foreign countries or monks chanting in a public place. But ultimately we got over all of those fears.

And the other point is that open carry has resulted in no actual harm coming to anyone. Virtually no other activity at this time has such a near perfect record of not impacting the public. Even growing flowers has produced more problems with people getting stung by bees!

So there we have it in a nutshell, open carry is an activity that an infinitesimally small percent of our population practice and it makes some portion of our population uncomfortable. AND so far, it has resulted in no actual harm being suffered by anyone.
I only wish the discussion could stop here.
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:18 PM   #94
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I guess it bears reminding you all that "gun-free zones" are invitations to persons intent on doing others harm. You never know when a former employee or customer of any kind of establishment has a grudge and is about to shoot up a place. Has happened before and odds are it will happen again.

If an establishment prohibits people like me from carrying (concealed, of course) where I want, I lose the right to protect myself, possibly my family and maybe others who are in harms way.

I was taught at a young age to be self-reliant and I believe that "it is better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it." Those of you who disagree can wait 10 minutes for the police to arrive...
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:03 PM   #95
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With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.
Re: Drama, you are 100% correct that is the goal as nothing meaningful can come from this thread or needs to come from it as there is no problem! This thread was created as drama, it is about feelings not an actual danger. If your were speaking about handling a gun in a public place such as loading it, or some other such activity it would be a totally different matter. But its not, for all you or anyone knows the guns are not loaded, or functional or even real. It is all speculative. No actual incident has occurred, no harm has been done, this is simply drama about someone feeling uncomfortable. Well I feel uncomfortable about all kinds of things, and I dont seek outright bans on them. I personally feel more threatened by a very large and mean looking dog than anyone with a gun in a holster. You may feel differently and as such I respect your desire to walk any big mean looking dog you choose, but I dont have to like it, just as you dont have to like someone carrying a gun, but should you be attempting to prohibit it,,,

As for "no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket" Sorry but I thought this was America where we dont need to justify every action we take and most things should not be prohibited or restricted unless there was a credible risk to others, which in this case we have clearly established there is virtually ZERO history of incident.

I fully respect your right to opinions and to your concerns, but unless backed up by legitimate data your concerns and opinions should not result in an imposed restriction on others.

Now please understand this is coming from someone who has never carried a weapon openly, will never carry an weapon openly, very rarely has every carried a concealed weapon, and personally does not like seeing open carry. But I will not ever raise my voice against it, as I perceive no legitimate risk from it, and I do not believe I should be able to step on someone else preference to carry openly.

Once you step on any preference for no valid reason, you open the flood gates. That is a proven fact.

Your opinion is clearly different, I only hope you can attempt to see the other side of this matter such as I do, again as someone not thrilled by open carry.

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Old 07-15-2021, 02:09 PM   #96
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"There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car."

And the response to this just as said above:

"it is better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it."

I don't tote a gun around with me all time but this quote randalnh is spot on and pops into my head from time to time. Hopefully a time never comes when its needed and not onboard but for anyone that does have one with them all the time I say good job, just keep it discreet.
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:19 PM   #97
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The Market Basket in Plymouth, NH is an excellent store, especially all the prepared food like the sub sandwiches, salads, and tv-dinner style meals for about 4.99. The new store is a great welcome addition to the area and it opened in May, 2020.

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us

Under Inquiry ..... click on Store Experience

After filling in my name, email, and phone number, here's a way for me to send them a message about my store experience sharing the store inside space with four different men with semi-automatic handguns in holsters on four different days.

This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.

If you feel the same as me, then go ahead and let them know what you think about open carry allowed inside the Plymouth NH, Market Basket.
Thanks for the tip, I just thanked them for not bowing down to extremest and fear mongers among us who would raise concern about non-issues. That by standing up to the few who would impact the many over nonsense and not banning firearms, they have proven why they were a successful organization and would continue to do well as people recognized the respect they had for their customers and their customers preferences.

One can only imagine what would be the next thing banned after firearms were prohibited. Pocket knives, oxygen generators/tanks (they could be weaponized) Tee shorts in offending colors, sandals/flip flops (god knows no one wants to look at ugly feet) Men in tank tops (you might be uncomfortable seeing back hair),,,

Its a scary world out there,,,
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:22 PM   #98
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With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.
A gun left in the car is as useful as a condom left in a wrapper. It does you no good when you need protection.

I suggest folks who have an issue with open or concealed carry move to the nanny state to our south. They have a big problem with our Constitution and don't like people defending themselves either.
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:53 PM   #99
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This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.
I'm not sure what's impossible about the situation. I think you may be fixating on it. As I've stated, it's not clear to me why someone needs a firearm on their hip to buy cheese and crackers. But I do believe in laws and rules, and in that MB they have the right to. I know you don't like it, and are voicing that to the management, and that is your right to do so.

But in terms of you going in and filling a shopping cart, checking out and heading home, if this is causing you stress and discomfort you simply need to shop somewhere else. I don't personally see it in any way as a "crazy impossible situation". You were 100% safe shopping there in the past, you still are now.

Don't misunderstand, I do respect your opinion and like that it prompted this discussion, which I'm finding interesting.
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:55 PM   #100
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Same thing could be said about your genitals.
Well, I guess if they frighten ya'!!!
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